Televised political interviews would be a lot more interesting if journalists could water board.

Digby is right. The Republicans have become the Torture Macacas party.

Now if Giuliani can only think of a genteel way to introduce lynching into the conversation . . .

ysbaddaden @ 1:

Televised political interviews would be a lot more interesting if journalists could water board.

Or if they could be waterboarded.

Well, Guiliani's police force knows a lot about intensive questioning techniques, that's for sure. I thought he condemned his force's extreme use of toilet plungers though... Guess not anymore.

If we elect this guy say goodbye to any remaining freedoms and hello to a corporate run police state just as NYC has become. Anyone who knew this city before and after "America's Mayor" knows it's soul has been sucked out and replaced by "security". And we all know what someone who values security over freedom deserves.

Fanon @ 6:

JLee @ 5:

ysbaddaden @ 1:

Televised political interviews would be a lot more interesting if journalists could water board.

Or if they could be waterboarded.

Katie Couric first. Perky little wench...

Really? I say the Fox News All-Stars of O'Reilly, Hannity, and Hume.

5 JLee Says: ysbaddaden @ 1:

Televised political interviews would be a lot more interesting if journalists could water board.

Or if they could be waterboarded.

Sorry I was spacing out for a sec.

I've been doing that alot the past few decades.

Just listened to Stephen Grey on D.Now apologising on behalf of journalists for ever saying it was "simulated drowning", he said it was actual drowning, controlled at the last second to avoid death. His doc on Extr. Rendition is on Frontline tonite.
Maybe a few people will skip Dancing with The Celebrity Train Wrecks or whatever (Earl dont have no steenking cable) and watch it.

There'd be alot of mafia guys running around new york. Yes Rudy, Some might even get to be mayor.

Guiliani does not know what he is talking about. There is a big difference between waterboarding and harsh interrogation techniques. The difference is, in my opinion, waterboarding is dilerberately hands on. Meaning, the interrogator(s) physically pressures or injures a suspect with the waterboarding technique to gain information. Heck this is right along the same lines with pulling out fingernails, electric shock or some other method. If Guiliani can not see the difference then I wonder what he approved law enforcement to do in New York to obtain information from Mafia members?

As expected, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted 11-8 to send the nomination of Judge Michael Mukasey to the full Senate for confirmation as Attorney General. As the AP reports, Democrats Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) provided the decisive votes after accepting "his assurance to enforce any law Congress might enact against waterboarding." Sadly for Schumer, Feinstein and the American people, Congress in 2005 already passed a law express forbidding waterboarding and other interrogation techniques amounting to torture. And President Bush already issued a signing statement declaring he would ignore it.

For the details, see:
"Waterboarding the Constitution: Mukasey and Bush's 2005 Signing Statement."

Rudy's never been responsible as a mayor, either.

Rudy is one the biggest political con job ever foistered on the American people. My fear is that the average Joe out there will just see the strutting Mussolini aspect of Rudy, and think he's "my kind of Alpha male", and those Evangelicals will back him because he's the Right's one hope against Hilary. You know a Hilary candidacy will bring out the personal attack ads. A Hilary-Rudy campaign would
be a field day for it. I just hope the DNC is cataloguing these amazingly stupid remarks Rudy regularly comes up with. Saw him doing a smarmy Hilary imitation the other day....wonder why he didn't dress
up like her too.

McCain comes across as nothing better than schizoid. He can complain about the torturer advocates all he wants but it means less than nothing so long as he uses his votes to support actual torturers. He needs to put his votes where his mouth is or STFU.

donitacurioso @ 24:

With all the talk about water boarding and the demonstrations of it being shown on tv lately, I wonder how long it will be before we see a news story about some 14-year-old kid being killed because his friends thought it would be fun to try it.

Worse still and what I fear the most: People like Guiliani advocating the use of waterboarding and other torture techniques directly upon American citizens for a wide variety of reasons.

The Battle of the Twits.

Angry One @ 19:

As expected, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted 11-8 to send the nomination of Judge Michael Mukasey to the full Senate for confirmation as Attorney General. As the AP reports, Democrats Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) provided the decisive votes after accepting "his assurance to enforce any law Congress might enact against waterboarding." Sadly for Schumer, Feinstein and the American people, Congress in 2005 already passed a law express forbidding waterboarding and other interrogation techniques amounting to torture. And President Bush already issued a signing statement declaring he would ignore it.

For the details, see:
"Waterboarding the Constitution: Mukasey and Bush's 2005 Signing Statement."

wha what??

Ya mean Rudy "let me ask some questions with this plunger" Giuliani was lying when he said it was unreasonable of politicans to ask Mukasey to do something they hadnt??

The Hell you Say!!

wouldnt Dumbya call that "revisionist history"?

Joe O. @ 17:

Guiliani does not know what he is talking about. There is a big difference between waterboarding and harsh interrogation techniques. The difference is, in my opinion, waterboarding is dilerberately hands on. Meaning, the interrogator(s) physically pressures or injures a suspect with the waterboarding technique to gain information. Heck this is right along the same lines with pulling out fingernails, electric shock or some other method. If Guiliani can not see the difference then I wonder what he approved law enforcement to do in New York to obtain information from Mafia members?

he was okay with having an innocent student shot 42 times.

As Venini mentions above, Abner Louima, a Haitian immigrant was sodomized with a plunger, repeatedly, by NYPD officers. Is this the kind of "intensive questioning" to which Giuliani refers?

Giuliani is proud of his record as the Northern, somewhat less obvious, version of Bull Connor.

He is a disgusting human being.

Here's a suggested question for the republican youtube presidential debate

"The United States charged Japanese officer, Yukio Asano with war crimes in 1947 for carrying out waterboarding on a U.S. civilian, he was sentenced to 15 years hard labor. If members of his family petitioned for a presidential commutation from a war crime to just an assault, would you grant it? (assuming the president can do that) and if not why not?"

The debate about whether we should be using torture or not under "certain circumstances" can rage on , but one thing is certain, waterboarding is torture no matter the circumstance. Call it what it is.

So, theoretically, if you're a Mafia guy convicted in NY, you should be asking for a new trial. Rudy will back up your claim that your confession was coerced.

He sounds like the kind of fruitcake you dont want to have to sit next to on the subway. I think he's gone mental. Which I think is a new qualifier for GOP candidacy.

This guy comes off like a capo who wants to be boss of the whole outfit.

Can you imagine if Rudy actually gets elected POTUS? The swearing-in will be held in an olive oil warehouse in Queens and the Oath of Office will be administered by a made guy named Guido dressed in a pin-striped suit and a pinky ring.

Instead of a Vice President, he'll have a Consigliere. Instead of a cabinet, he'll have a Crew. The Joint Chiefs will be his Soldiers.

nigel @ 37:

Here's a suggested question for the republican youtube presidential debate

"The United States charged Japanese officer, Yukio Asano with war crimes in 1947 for carrying out waterboarding on a U.S. civilian, he was sentenced to 15 years hard labor. If members of his family petitioned for a presidential commutation from a war crime to just an assault, would you grant it? (assuming the president can do that) and if not why not?"

The debate about whether we should be using torture or not under "certain circumstances" can rage on , but one thing is certain, waterboarding is torture no matter the circumstance. Call it what it is.

Amen. As Murrow said, it's a mistake to believe that every argument has two equally valid sides.

Waterboarding is inhumane, it is torture, and it is illegal.

Pretending that there's even a shred of validity to claims that we're protecting America by doing this is to stand as a willing accomplice - yet this is what the candidates and people like Feinstein and Schumer are doing.

Amato, McCain is my senator - sadly. He IS NOT taking a principled stand. He is fighting a tactical fight against an opponent. When his interests are at stake, he has no principles.

He has and will get on his knees to anyone to ensure his personal gain. That goes all the way back to G.H.W. Bush and the republican convention.

You watch too much 'TV'.

Rudy missed his calling. He should have been assigned a camp in the Third Reich

So is Rudy a Mets fan or a Yankees fan?

To this day, no one really knows for sure.

I have visions of mafia figures getting a good laugh about Rudy's toughness. He is such a joke. Why would any sane person even consider voting for Rudy? He portrays himself as a 9/11 hero. He was hated in NYC before 9/11 and still is by many. Does Rudy really believe we have all forgotten what he was and that now we love him enough to elect him to the highest office in our land. God help us.

What the F**K dreamland is idiot Giuliani living in?

First of all, if there were any meetings with top NY mafia, Rudy didn't call them, he just attended, as ordered.

Secondly, he's stupid, but not stupid enough to ask questions of them other than 'How High'?

The only questions asked would have been among the boys themselves, after the meeting, like "How does that Goombah find his ass to wipe?'

Yo Mafia,

Ya gonna let this sacko-shit badmouth ya like this forever or what?

george bush with brains...sorta

Jimmy Montague @ 54:

Giuliani DOES know what he is talking about. He made his bones as a fighting, tough-on-organized-crime federal prosecutor in (as I recall) the Southern District of New York state. He put some of the most famous people in organized crime behind bars -- and you don't get thugs like them to rat each other out by asking them "pretty please tell us what you know" and slapping their hands when they refuse to answer.

The funniest thing about the anti-torture crowd (I'm against torture, too) is that most of them seem to think that what's happening at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and elsewhere is a step away from traditional American police methods. Truth is that waterboarding is more sophisticated than traditional American police methods, and in fact it is less brutal than most such methods. (i.e.: which NY cop shoved his night-stick up the ass of which black suspect a few years ago?)

Some of you would profit by getting yourselves arrested on a violent felony rap. When the cops interrogate you, don't answer their questions. See what happens next.

Giuliani was a federal cop. Giuliani KNOWS what happens next. That's probably why he thinks waterboarding is no big deal.

You're a laugh riot. You're against torture, but defend Giulani because 'he knows the score'?

This relative scale of evils is what will destroy this country in a heartbeat.

a href="#comment-308096" >Jimmy Montague @ 54:

By some estimates over a million people were determined to have had sex with Satan by these means. They were given a choice of being burned alive at the stake or allow thier torture to continue. Most confessed and chose to be burned alive at the stake. Proving that they did in fact consort with Satan.

If you can go ahead and give me a statistic that is even 1/10th of that number I'd be very impressed.

The fact of the matter is, the U.S. army waterboards every single U.S. Special Ops soldier so they are ready for it if they eventually get it. Do you honestly think the U.S. military would intentionally cause seriouse damage to a soldier that they have invested so much time, money and effort into? Torture is electroshock, physical harm (beating, etc).

Intensive interigation is waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc. There's a vast difference between the two.

I'm also curious if anyone can point me to a mayor who cut crime so much in his city that it effected national crime statistics (Giuliani) who did it by just asking the criminals to "pretty please stop killing people". Another question, if everyone here is so zealous in the belief that they know law enforcement and interrigation better then the people trained in it, can you give me a way that you would have gotten information the same information out of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi that the CIA got? (already confirmed to have stopped somewhere in the order of 3-4 attacks on American soil, but most are still classified).

Maybe when we live in a perfect world where ununiformed combants stop blowing up civilian markets or busses full of children we can get information out of criminals by asking nicely, but I'm not going to shed a tear over a sleep deprived baby killer, thanks.

All of you who would support Guilliani, you in essence are telling McCain, POW McCain, that he doesn't know what he is talking about. "“When someone says waterboarding is similar to harsh interrogation techniques used against the mafia in New York City, they do not have enough experience to lead our military,” McCain said Sunday night at a town-hall meeting here. What you are saying is that Guilliani knows more about the torture issue learned while sitting behind his desk in NYC than McCain garnered in his years of incarceration in Hanoi. McCain is not my candidate, but in this instance, i'll take his experience over dandy rudy any day of the week.

Rainsford
I’m also curious if anyone can point me to a mayor who cut crime so much in his city that it effected national crime statistics (Giuliani) who did it by just asking the criminals to “pretty please stop killing people”.

He affected national crime statistics by shoving all of his crime out of the city. Ask Brooklyn how they feel about "America's Mayor".

shadowgm

I am humbled....

t

And Saint John will stay with this line until the focus groups reveal that the lizard brained republican primary base voter just LOOOVEs themselves some torture. Look then for the flip flop.

Is he saying he waterboarded the mafia in his office? I wonder if he did that in drag?

Put the emergency response center in the WTC.

Nice.

Oh..
So now torture is called "intensive questioning?"
Just trying to keep all the bullsh it terms straight.

Where do they find these people?
How do we give them back?

Rainsford @63

The waterboarding you speak of against our own spec ops happens in SERE school. Been there. Done that. It's just a familiarity session - it wouldn't do any good to be breaking or killing our warriors. The instructors make sure doesn't persist. Same with the stress positions. Their job is to expose without doing harm. It's a school.

The torturers, on the other hand, make it last. And waterboarding will break anybody. If continued, the victim will drown. If any stress positions are held, most victims will be dead of coronary failure within 72 hours. (What do you think crucifixion is - just one more stress position).

Torture is an ultimate moral failure. It is a certain sign that a people has betrayed its own humanity and collectively sunk to a level that is lower than an animal. Nothing justifies it, and that is why the rest of the world considers it a crime against humanity.

If you really believe what you say, there are words that describe what you are: Sociopath. Borderline psychopath. Monster. Amoral.

Jimmy Montague @ 54:

Some of you would profit by getting yourselves arrested on a violent felony rap.

Sorry, but I am not a violent felon. Many abductess are law abiding family men. See Arar case, Canada.

Ahhh to hell with waterboarding his ass... Way too easy, in his particular case... Fagitaboutit... Give em a cement overcoat instead and plant his flip-floppin lyin ass in the new foundation at the twin towers site.. He's such a fan of 9/11 it would be extreme poetic justice in his case... I just bet there's a NYFD or two or three dozen who'd be happy to mix the mortar and probably a NYPD or three dozen who'd stand by cheerin em on and providing security....Ehh, I'm not sayin... I'm just sayin.....heheh, oh don't blows yer kool sitecats, it ain't gonna happen... I'm just wishin....

Besides, if people like Dobson and Pat Boone and Don Wildmon et al, can carp pointlessly about porn in the military and turn people against people in the real world just because of who some people prefer to be intimate with that doesn't jive with these bigots narrow view of the world...The kind of agititing that causes real violence against real people..? Then what's a little fantasy on a blog, wishin for a little evening up karma against a true one hundred percent prick??...JD

McCain is a victim of torture, and look at the results to his mind--permanently deformed.

Edwin says @ No. 82: Because they do it, it must be OK? Real tough he-man stuff, eh? Or just thoughts from a sick little perverted mind?? Go back whence you came: join your sick friends.

No. I'm not a real tough he-man and don't think of myself so. I merely point out the fact that this shit (and worse) has been going on for years and none of you paid it any mind until it all of a sudden became "official policy." NOW you're worried about it.

In Giuliani's day as a prosecutor, prisoners who'd been tortured were said to have "fallen down the stairs" at the police station. Some of them actually fell down the stairs so many times that they died. Nobody paid it any mind then. Now all of a sudden it's big news. I don't think it's laudable or desirable or effective as policy. I just think it's laughable that the middle class is just now picking up on the fact.