Does anyone REALLY believe that we have two separate parties anymore?

Say it with me, "collusion".

Something for nothing. Great work Harry. Heckofajob!
Why is this guy majority leader? Anyone?

From the article:

"It's important for us to say that we gave money to the military," the source said. "Because when Bush starts coming at us and saying that the troops are running out of money [when the Iraq funding battle fight starts], we'll be able to say, `We just gave you $450 billion.' It kind of gives us a cushion here."

Hi, I'm not a politician, historian, nor a tactician, I'm just an average guy. But, just as I knew that the Occupation of Iraq was destined to turn into the kind of imperialistic boondoggle that sapped the British Empire, so to do I have enough wit to recognize that you do not make progress by planning to be on the defensive!!

The top Democratic leadership is planning to adopt some kind of whiny rationalization, as a campaign tactic? Geeze Louise do wonder this party is so f-ed up! Yeah, that sputtering "But... but we..." response is really going to win over the hearts and minds of the American people. 'Ooh, ooh, the Democrats have a weak comeback to White House talking points!' Well I guess I will vote for Hilary after all!

Cripes.

Oh - ok. So they allow torture, for the sake of their own cowardly political needs. Makes sense to me.

Screw em. Never voting Dem again either. Just Repubs in a different uniform.

FUCK REID.

Did he really need permission from the fucking Republicans to pass a military spending bill?

HEY DSCC.... DON'T ASK FOR A FUCKING DIME

Jon, I used to agree with you but the Dems have caved on issue after issue since theyve been in power. Have they prevented Bush from doing ANYTHING he's wanted to do?

Can you honestly say you see no difference AT ALL between Republicans and Democrats?

Just as there is a difference between the Harlem Globetrotters and the patsy team they play.

I'm all for horse trading when it comes to extra-constitutional issues like family planning, education, taxes, etc. You give and you get, that's what politics is.

But habeas corpus, basic human rights, illegal war, warrantless wiretapping etc. are off the table. Not because it makes political sense but because it is LITERALLY part of the oath of office.

It just says "preserve protect and defend the constitution." I don't recall anything in there that says "unless it will cost you votes in the next election."

But did this break my heart? No. That ship has sailed. This is just more of the same. I have no great fear of Mukasey. He's protecting the people around him...weasely to be sure...but he'll be a damn sight better than Gonzales.

He also impresses me as someone who gives a rat's ass about how history will judge him, so I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll go out of his way to appear independent from this dead-end administration.

Hope springs eternal.

Meanwhile, naturally, of course, we all see it coming: the Democrats will give Bush another fully-funded blank check. We all know the reasons why they'll do this.

I just wish they'd stop lying to US about their intentions. Just say: "Look, we're stuck. We're unwilling to do what is necessary to push on this issue. The president has us by the balls and we have to go along with whatever he wants. Them's the breaks. Sorry."

Because that's the truth.

Harry you been had once again!

What is it what they say.... Right foot Left foot.

NeoCon Republicans = Fascist

The current Democracts = Fabian Socialist

Two forms of collectivism. Collectivism is diametrically opposed to freedom.

wow....this is yet another prove that democrats are worried more about the party itself then about doing what is right for the people

somebody start a third party please !

If this makes it more possible to get a bill funding the Iraq occupation with a time table for withdraw, then I'll take it. Hell even if this guy said water-boarding was torture, that would not guarantee it would end water-boarding.

You Americans are going to go down in history as the most politically ignorant on the face of the planet. You honestly believe there is a difference between parties,that's so precious...go back to sleep or better yet WATCH MORE T.V. and stick with your strengths.

Who where the Republicans he was dealing with? Let them come front and center, an admit that's what happened!
Any odds on that happening anytime soon?

canuck @ 25:

You Americans are going to go down in history as the most politically ignorant on the face of the planet. You honestly believe there is a difference between parties,that's so precious...go back to sleep or better yet WATCH MORE T.V. and stick with your strengths.

We don't have you convinced YET? What more do we have to do??
Ignorance is our strength. We're #1!

I wonder if our military might be up for a coup (not too far fetched with the impending attack on Iran). If not, maybe we can pool all our money together and hire Blackwater and Dyna corp to "refresh" our current leadership.

Do they seriously think this is going to work?

well thats efficient! 458 billion direct to the contractors then? jesus christ these people need to be recalled.

we need to expand the definition of treason and fire up the guilotine
.

What's disgusting is that the games the GOP plays, and the snarling smirking squatter in the White House protected by the so-called liberal media have brought us to this place in history. The crowning touch is the lack of intestinal fortitude within those who should be adamantly protecting the U.S. from its ever-increasing proximity to the abyss.

You shouldn't have capitulated, Harry. You should have used your common sense. Now the Democratic "leaders" will have no ammunition whatsoever when Mukasey is accused of condoning torture, because everyone who voted to confirm will be painted with the same broad brush.

This is a Pyrrhic victory, to say the least.

Christ... wheeling and dealing? Pragmatism? Caving in on Murkasey and his ambiguiety about torture so dems can say we did fund the troop later when the repubs want to point fingers??? Fuck... I truly don't know what to think about this.... Other than its a shit sandwich no matter how you slice it. And somehow, someway, I just have this gut feeling that in the end as far as the big dem strategy goes??.. It won't matter... The repubs will claim dims(spelled that way on purpose), are weak on troop support and the rightwing mouthpiece harpies along with the rest of the compliant MSM will go right along parroting all that shit.. And when U.S. troops or kidnapped citizens start experiencing torture first hand by those who hate us?
I wonder how Reid and the Dims will spin that???? I gaurentee you the goddamned republicans will have a spin ready...And it this point, I just don't have any good arguments when some claim the dims are truly no better then the repukes...........JD

Holy God I hate fucking politics....

Somebody shoot me....

hahahahaha...........is it any wonder why Amerikkka is where it is?

incompetent incompetancy..followed by even MORE

why don't you wake up to the fact that BOTH parties are hell bent on destroying your country?

flash @ 23:

If this makes it more possible to get a bill funding the Iraq occupation with a time table for withdraw, then I'll take it. Hell even if this guy said water-boarding was torture, that would not guarantee it would end water-boarding.

No, no! It just shows the Democratic leadership has no scruples, no morals, no conscience, no spine, no brains. . . .

With this guy wheeling & dealing look for a FISA turkey in time for thanksgiving when we'll be served as stuffing to make our great leader look even greater than he already is.

timotheus @ 48:

This is the lamest explanation from "sources" I have ever read.

What happened is that the ruling class in the USA supports the war, no matter what they say in public. It is obvious by how they vote and also f****ing obvious because after the Democratic sweep we are still in Iraq, in the quagmire, and are not negotiating with the involved parties for some kind of after occupation settlement.

The politicians do exactly what big oil, big business and AIPAC tell them to do.

The rest is just a circus act to fool the American public.

and how well they fool the American sheeple.

The Dems are not only NOT getting the magic beans for the cow, they forked over all the seed corn to the slicks at the fair as return insurance should the beans prove unsatisfactory.

Ellie @ 51:

The Dems are not only NOT getting the magic beans for the cow, they forked over all the seed corn to the slicks at the fair as return insurance should the beans prove unsatisfactory.

no kidding.....neville chamberlain...uhhh...i mean harry reid....is the reincarnated nazi appeaser and fascist denialist.

Does Reid really believe the Republicans will hold up their end of the bargain? They get what they want, then it's back to the tricks.

these dems are FUCK-ALL STUPID if they think anyone in the media is gonna give them a break or credit for anything!

they could give BUSH™ everything he wants to the letter & they would *STILL* be smeared, i dont kjnow what fucking universe fucking reid is living in where people "play fair".

Here's a funny though, albeit off topic.

In the medieval age they often referred to the cross as the Holy Rood.

Notice the similarity to Hollywood?

Dems always playing defence to the Republicant offense BEFORE there is any offense. Pissing their pants all the time.

If there are any Dem big wigs reading this, note: I will NOT vote Democratic candidates anymore.

I've been hit up for money again and again. I gave money through the netroots campaigns. I most particularly supported Webb and I got something for it. The Democratic part can just fuck off until I see something done. Override Bush's veto? The fucking Water Pork Barrel Bill!!!! Give me a fucking break. I don't want one of ours to self-immolate, but they've got to do more than a fucking pork barrel bill. Where's the next round in S-CHIP? And, Jesus fuck you Rahm Emmanuel.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi need to be replaced. They are both traitors to the people who voted in the democratic majority. They are soft on everything. Neither one of them have the leadership qualities of an eleven year old cheerleader. They suck!!!! They are from that old school of democratic politics of tuck tail and try to look like you are republican lite.

Well the American people are sick of it and of them. We need some true, honest to goodness, opposition leadership to the hateful, evil administration. People who are going to stand up and stay up and make sure that we get this country back on the right track. People who will keep sending Bush the same bills over and over and over again. People who will prosecute the criminals who refuse to answer subpoenas. People who are willing to impeach the biggest criminal ever to hold the presidency. What we have now are pussies. What we need are tigers.

you sleep with dirty dogs and you get fleas.

Soulcore @ 1:

Does anyone REALLY believe that we have two separate parties anymore?

Say it with me, "collusion".

Yet another reason to vote independent or write in next year.

foolme1ns @ 65 "Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi need to be replaced. They are both traitors to the people who voted in the democratic majority."

So the REPUBLICANS who stayed home or voted for Democrats for the first time have been betrayed.

Cry me a river.

If you are arguing that YOU voted in the Dem "majority", then NAME THE CANDIDATE YOU VOTED FOR WHO WASN'T GOING TO WIN OTHERWISE.

That bullshit is the gift that keeps on giving. Living so far up the asshole of FANTASY, it amazes me that to you the stink of that lie smells like roses.

Scott in Chicago @ 69 "Yet another reason [to waste your vote] next year."

Hi Paul, back to defend the indefensible again I see.

Hows that Party kool aid tasting these days?
Smells kind of bitter.

Symes @ 75:

Hi Paul, back to defend the indefensible again I see.

When do you run away with the piss running down your leg?

I want to send you flowers.

One key reason Dem leaders wanted this defense approps bill passed, sources tell me, is that they wanted to be able to argue that they had sent a bill to the President funding the military, if not the war itself. The idea was that doing this would allow them to protect themselves in the days ahead when the battle over Iraq funding heats up and Republicans inevitably charge that Dems are refusing to fund the troops.

So they gave us a guy to be Attorney General who wouldn't say whether or not torture really IS torture, just to cover their collective asses from Republican cheap-shot advertising.

Wow. Now that's some ballsy leadership right there.

So much bull, they should all be executed for treason against all of us. Bastards i wish they taste the pain all of us feel knowing that they are not serving us.

Paul in LA @ 73:

Scott in Chicago @ 69 "Yet another reason [to waste your vote] next year."

Obviously, it was a freakin waste of a vote LAST time!!!!!

WE. ARE. NO. BETTER. OFF.

That's about the most twisted f*cking logic I've ever heard. The GOP always have, are now, and will continue to screech through their megaphones, "The Dems are cut and runners, they don't support the troops, and they are terrorist lovers." The base will still believe them. Dems, liberals, and prgressives will remember them spinelessly selling out again.

"Crush, kill, destroy." My new slogan?? (from the robot on Lost in Space. Man I loved that show... anyhoo)

Reid, Hoyer, Reid and that little bitch Rahm Emanuel HAVE TO FUCKING GO!!!

nsr @ 80:

Hey, Senator Brainiac! What happens when Bush refuses to sign the bill?

He can't. Vetoing a defense spending bill just does not happen. Period.

Stop whipping yourself into a frenzy for something that is a good trade. This blind partisanship ignores the fact that the Dems have a 1-seat majority that doesn't really count because of Joe Lieberman. So we have to play it close to get anything done. This maneuvering is distasteful to you because of blind partisanship, but it's necessary. Bush would have recess appointed Mukasey anyway, so now instead of having nothing, the Dems walk away with something.

It was a good trade, stop trying to make it into something else.

JonfromAL @ 89:

nsr @ 80:

Hey, Senator Brainiac! What happens when Bush refuses to sign the bill?

He can't. Vetoing a defense spending bill just does not happen. Period.

Stop whipping yourself into a frenzy for something that is a good trade. This blind partisanship ignores the fact that the Dems have a 1-seat majority that doesn't really count because of Joe Lieberman. So we have to play it close to get anything done. This maneuvering is distasteful to you because of blind partisanship, but it's necessary. Bush would have recess appointed Mukasey anyway, so now instead of having nothing, the Dems walk away with something.

It was a good trade, stop trying to make it into something else.

Time to lay off that glue, JonfromAL.

JonfromAL @ 89:
It was a good trade, stop trying to make it into something else.

setting aside the issue of PRINCIPLES (as reid obviously has), you would have to braindead to think that the repubs would honor their side of a bargain.
why would they? theyve already got what they want!

when people say that the dems dont stand for anything, i will not be able to defend them anymore. its true; everything & anything is up for bargaining.

Paul in LA @ 94:

grover nerdkissed @ 83 "Obviously, it was a freakin waste of a vote LAST time!!!!!"

Fine, so you say. NAME THE DEMOCRAT YOU VOTED FOR WHO WAS NOT GOING TO WIN ANYHOW.

I'll wait.

so why would they need my vote?

Symes @ 82:

Paul in LA @ 77:
Symes @ 75:
.
.

[Deleted. Boys boys boys. Don't turn this thread into a pissing match, OK? You've each had one hit, now give it a rest. Thanks-Sitemonitor]

Really, you should let me rebut him.

He will spend his time attacking everyone else as traitors or calling them stupid, just like he does on any thread where his precious Democratic Party is being challenged.

You're the moderators, haven't you noticed how he shows up only for threads where the Party is being disparaged?
I know I have.

[Yes. We notice. There's nothing wrong with his limiting himself to one topic-he's keeping on topic in those threads.
Rebuttal on topic is fine. Whipping them out and fighting over whose is bigger is not. We haven't posted that thread yet.
Paul in LA has backed off the big clever insults quite a bit-we'd like to see him remain in that pattern. Feel free to debate the issues. Keep the personal insults out of it. If you feel that something has gotten out of hand, let us know via email-at the Site monitor link. Thanks, Symes-Sitemonitor]

grover nerdkissed @ 95 "so why would they need my vote?"

Scaroo your vote, kiddo. My point was that your claim that you 'voted them in to do X' is a VERY TIRED LEFTIST LIE.

Who did you vote for? Really, I'm curious. What marvelous thing did you do for our society by crossing an X on a computer screen? WHO do you personally send to Washington to do your bidding? Who do you give to Speaker Pelosi for the work that has to be done?

And when you don't answer, that tells us both that you're just kidding around.

Paul in LA @ 99:

grover nerdkissed @ 95 "so why would they need my vote?"

Scaroo your vote, kiddo. My point was that your claim that you 'voted them in to do X' is a VERY TIRED LEFTIST LIE.

Who did you vote for? Really, I'm curious. What marvelous thing did you do for our society by crossing an X on a computer screen? WHO do you personally send to Washington to do your bidding? Who do you give to Speaker Pelosi for the work that has to be done?

And when you don't answer, that tells us both that you're just kidding around.

So you are a right winger?
That is what you are saying.

Symes @ 97 "He will spend his time attacking everyone else as traitors"

Do a Google on my handle and the word traitor, smart guy.

There are traitors; disaffiliated leftists are not traitors.

Anyhow, moderator, I am not in discussion with Symes, he is sniping at me when he runs into me, and that's that. Once he confessed to being a (no longer so 'Semper') Marine who is fleeing to Europe to escape the FEMA camps, we were done having any kind of reasoned exchange.

Paul in LA @ 103:

Symes @ 97 "He will spend his time attacking everyone else as traitors"

Do a Google on my handle and the word traitor, smart guy.

There are traitors; disaffiliated leftists are not traitors.

Anyhow, moderator, I am not in discussion with Symes, he is sniping at me when he runs into me, and that's that. Once he confessed to being a (no longer so 'Semper') Marine who is fleeing to Europe to escape the FEMA camps, we were done having any kind of reasoned exchange.

Ooh, disparaging my service again. Nice.

I NEVER said I was leaving to run from FEMA camps, you did.

Liar.

Quick question though, you seem to be saying your precious little party is not leftist any more.
So what is it?
Centrist? Right wing? What?

You are attacking leftists, and I was pretty sure that the Democratic Party I grew up in was a left leaning group.

Otay @ 102 "Sorry, but most people, especially independents and Repubs, want nothing to do with this kind of party. The Dems will just lose everyone but the self-flagellating."

That's a charming imagination of yours, but you are entirely wrong.

No matter how much Dem bashing you do here, the fact is that in a legal election the Democratic party will be picking up something like 25-40 seats in the House and 6-10 Senate seats.

Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader, and Amy Goodman will not change those facts, because, btw, the "sheeple" you lot despise ARE NOT LISTENING TO YOU. They don't even understand your anger.

And this is where you run right off the page. Not grasping that Steny Hoyer is winning his elections with a FIFTY PERCENT MARGIN, you think he's on the verge of removal as a result of calling him a name on a blog.

In the old days, leftists worked hard to empower people and register them to vote. Nowadays you sit around swearing on blogs, pretending that you're driving the bull by hanging onto the bell for dear life.

Paul, Symes, you don't want to see my wrath!

***THUNDER***

Stay on topic, play nice!

Paul in LA @ 108:

Symes @ 105 "Ooh, disparaging my service again. Nice."

I'm not disparaging your "service," whatever that was. YOU'RE disparaging your oath.

Semper Fi, just some junk you thought was cool.

Semper Fi, something you know nothing of.
Disparage my service some more, slander me some more. Go ahead.

Still wondering though, you are calling people out for being leftist, so what is the Democratic Party to you?
Right? Centrist? What?

This IS on topic by the way.

Moderator, if you are going to chastise for off topic perhaps you should go after Paul here since he is such a divisive character and wanders right off topic to spew the party line every time.

Symes @ 111:

Paul in LA @ 108:

Symes @ 105 "Ooh, disparaging my service again. Nice."

I'm not disparaging your "service," whatever that was. YOU'RE disparaging your oath.

Semper Fi, just some junk you thought was cool.

Semper Fi, something you know nothing of.
Disparage my service some more, slander me some more. Go ahead.

Still wondering though, you are calling people out for being leftist, so what is the Democratic Party to you?
Right? Centrist? What?

This IS on topic by the way.

Paul, my son, debating is good, holy.

I'll say it again, Paul, because you apparently skipped over the part about a little thing called "approval ratings", something that is dropping with the Dems.

Otay @ 102:

Paul in LA @ 76:

The leadership has already noted your PERMANENT disaffiliation and complete failure to identify yourselves with the real problems (instead of your convenient bashing toy). So they are now ignoring you entirely. Congratulations.

You know, if the Dem "leaders" have come up with the strategy of ignoring their base in order to capture the backwash, what can anyone say? Should we say congratulations for cutting off your own nose to spite your face? Should we say not to worry, since record low approval ratings by the public are just indicative of an unwashed citizenry that does not have the brilliant insight of the Leaders?

Sorry, but most people, especially independents and Repubs, want nothing to do with this kind of party. The Dems will just lose everyone but the self-flagellating.

So what if the Dems pick up a few seats, for a short time. They are just cementing the long-term meme (which is apparently not a meme anymore but proven absolutely true) that they are weak and unfit to lead, particularly when any trouble occurs or anyone puts up opposition to them.

If they win the seats, which they will probably still lose political fights with, it will not be because of their strengths, but because of the Repubs temporary weakness.

Symes @ 113:

Moderator, if you are going to chastise for off topic perhaps you should go after Paul here since he is such a divisive character and wanders right off topic to spew the party line every time.

I'm not the moderator, I'm GOD!

Janet @ 118:

Harry Reid allowed a vote on Mukasey because in exchange the Republican leadership agreed to allow a vote on the big Defense Appropriations Bill, which contains $459 billion in military spending but doesn’t fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What is disturbing here, besides the obvious, is this says.... the Republican leadership agreed to allow a vote on the big Defense Appropriations Bill. Ok they will allow the vote. Nowhere do I see that they will vote to pass the bill. So what is the freakin difference?

So the Republicans are in charge again? So what did the Dems win back in November 2006!

Otay @ 117 "you apparently skipped over the part about a little thing called "approval ratings", something that is dropping with the Dems."

I don't care about such polls. The people will still vote the same way they always do next year. With or without your help.

My Representative is Diane Watson. She is progressive, a member of the Out-of-Iraq caucus, and a supporter of immediate impeachment.

She has GIGANTIC support in the district, and will not need my vote next year (though of course she'll get it).

Netroots has had some big successes (in addition to elevating some rather weak persons who were better than the corrupt ones they replaced). But netroots is just a pale shadow compared to the real fundraising, and the voting in this country is NOT by opinion poll, but by a series of choices which is not the same from district to district.

You won't say who your Dem or R representative is. Yet you claim somehow you (and America) singled out a Dem in order to stop the war on a dime. I say that's bullshit -- the reason why the Dems are in the leadership now is BECAUSE OF HOWARD DEAN'S FIFTY STATE STRATEGY, and the corruption scandals of R candidates. A lot of R voted for Dems, for a change. And the whole country is skewing the Dem party side.

On the disaffilated left, the third party theories are as tired as Dick Cheney. The abuse and slander and profanity is wasted electrons, and the real left, the one with REAL heroes who work for change, is not most of you lot. The ones who come here to blather about UFOs and to take up every implication of betrayal as if it proved their worldview (and therefore isn't propaganda) are side players in a drama that is FAR larger than their whining sense of superiority.

I protest four hours a week these days. How much public work do you do? Because this may be a popular blog, but it is not reaching the people who see my signs and hear my voice. Actually working with the public, whether by voter registration, door-to-door activism, street protest, union strike support, and all the rest of the 'leftist' outreach of my youth -- there's still a lot of that going on, but the noisiest commenters here are doing NOTHING other than carping that they don't like the smell of Caesar's farts. It's not news to any of us, but unlike those persons, our Representatives actually have to deal with Republicans, actually have to compromise to go forward, actually have to search for a way out of this crisis that is POSSIBLE in Congress, instead of being possible in your head.

grover nerdkissed @ 122 "wow, thats a great way to encourage voters.
i guess you DO work for the DLC."

If you had half a clue, I support the PROGRESSIVES, not the DLC.

"And when you don't answer, that tells us both that you're just kidding around."

AS IT HAS.

why would i tell you shit about who i vote for?
i dont owe your ass a thing.

Ok... a cat fight is when to women go at it. What do you call two guys fighting on a blog?

No gay jokes, please!

Hey Paul, why DO you come here to chastise?

You NEVER make any friends, and you do more to drive people away from your cause than you EVER do to change their minds.

Unless...

That is you entire point.
To drive us away from you stated cause.

You spend a lot of time beating up lefties, then claim to be a progressive (last I heard that WAS a lefty).

Interesting.

grover nerdkissed @ 127:

why would i tell you shit about who i vote for?
i dont owe your ass a thing.

See, that's a misconception. I don't care who you vote for -- I'm asking you to validate your claim that you elected the Dems in 2006 to stop the war. EXACTLY who carried this important message from you to the Congress? Is it such a secret?

If it is, then you are LYING. That doesn't bother me much -- but the pretense of what you said does. Did you do something unique in 2006? I don't think you did. Howard Dean did.

Oh Paul, ignoring the legitimate questions so you can keep up the attack!
Very nice.

And typical of your right wing tactics.

.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety..."
~ Ben Franklin

R E C A L L
Is in ORDER

.

Paul in LA: Well tell me what we have gotten from all her trying? I have helped in my small way to get Virginia away from the rot she was wallowing in. Webb at least is true to the honor of his country and a patriot lately become a democrat. There is no hope for South Carolina, a state too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum.

grover nerdkissed @ 140:

GOD @ 132:

grover nerdkissed @ 127:

why would i tell you shit about who i vote for?
i dont owe your ass a thing.

Grover, what's with the language? I'm sure you're educated enough to come back with something intelligent minus the insults, right?

RIGHT?

thank you, GOD. you are right; i apologize & will try to remian civil.

i just dont understand the mixed message of this person telling me that my vote doesnt matter, that he doesnt care who i voted for, while at the same time demanding to know who i voted for & attacking me for considering withholding my vote next time.

Just thank GOD, me, that he's not your coworker.

Carry on my child!

What a knave Reid is!

It's available in some states, just not in CA at the Federal level.

SteveinSC @ 145:

It's available in some states, just not in CA at the Federal level.

It is available for some state politicians. It is NOT available on the Federal level for ANY state.

..& i would care to justify myself to you because....?