BREAKING: FISA Bill Discussion Now--CALL YOUR SENATORS
FDL:
The FISA bill (S. 2248) mark-up is set for tomorrow morning in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The business meeting is set for 10 am ET - am waiting to hear whether C-Span will be covering it, but I've put in a request. Here's hoping...
In the meantime, I thought we could spend the day constructively nudging on two very important issues: (1) no telecom immunity and (2) no basket warrants.
The ACLU has a lot of information on FISA, including a section-by-section analysis of the bill and a one page summary sheet. Useful stuff.
We put together quite a list of ways to phrase opposition to the current FISA legislation's most odious provisions - you can find the full compendium here. (My personal favorite was Prairie Sunshine's "Democracy = Rule of Law, not Lawless Rule.") Please call and FAX the offices of the Senate Judiciary Committee members regarding their obligation to uphold the rule of law, the Constitution, and the will of the people not just the rule of George. Via OldCoastie, here is a link to efax, which allows you to FAX them for free.
Christy has compiled names and numbers at FDL.
Things aren't going well, thanks to our LieberDems Schumer, Feinstein (what a surprise!) and Whitehouse. We need to get loud, people.
From an email from an ACLU rep.:
The Democratic Judiciary Committee staff is floating substitution language that would make the government responsible for illegal activity committed by the telecom companies.
Congress must reject any attempts to provide immunity to those that broke the law. If the government assumes legal responsibility for lawbreaking for the telecoms, the companies will be let-off the hook for their illegal actions. It also means the taxpayers will be responsible for any damages. The ACLU strongly and firmly opposes the substitution, which is, in essence, telecom immunity.
If this substitution language gets enacted, we know that the government will stop the lawsuits by arguing: states secrets, executive privilege, and sovereign immunity in order to stop the people from having their day in court against the telecom giants.
The Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to mark up the domestic surveillance legislation tomorrow morning.
And the House is expected to vote tomorrow too, although it is not yet clear exactly what they are voting on yet.
Looks like Sheldon needs to be reminded why he has that Senate seat and not Lincoln Chafee. You can only fool the netroots into thinking you're one of them only so long before it gets figured out that you're no better than Feinstein or Lieberman, and once they turn on you, that's it; they're looking for your replacement.
Me thinks that at this rate, Obama and Whitehouse will be one term Senators if they don't get their acts together.
Both issues(FISA and granting immunity to telecom industry) have been and are high on
my list of most important issues, however, being here in Texas with two Repig Senators
(Hutchinson & Cornass), who have already indicated to how they would vote(WRONG
on both accounts) and with Tom Delay having his "illegal"(my term)redistricting plan approved here in Texas(permitting Repigs to be in charge), I along w/the citizens of Texas are NOT
being heard or represented, so regardless of how much and how often I write these assholes,
it is like pissing into the wind.
I'm sorry may be I'm not keen on the flavor of the kool-aid nor do I have the time. Do I call my own Senator even if she is not on the Senate Judiciary Committee? Or do I call just those on the Committee? Who are they again? DO you have their numbers or do I look them up.
I do believe in the rule of law and holding law breakers accountable. But I need help knowing who to call because I'm very busy.
Also just heard on The Thom Hartmann Show that something interesting is going on right now between Waxman and some moron with ties to Blackwater. Apparently it involves accusations that Blackwater was smuggling weapons into Iraq and selling them on the black market (fittingly enough). I'd be interested to know what the heck that is about!
I thought Whitehouse was going to be one of the good ones. He better get his head out of his ass and quick.
Bonkers @ 4:
The brother of the Inspector General of the State Department is on the Blackwater Advisory Board. Talk about a conflict of interests!!!!
Whitehouse? He was so good during the investigation of the US attorney's firing. When did he change? What did he say or do to give the impression he will be soft on this?
John & Company,
Whenever there is a post for a call to action, can you please include in your post a link that provides contact information so readers can easily link to the elected officials and other key politicians?
This is one, there maybe others that are better suited
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
Thanks
I truly, honestly feel that deals have been made behind the scenes, and nothing will change the minds of these people.
Do you know how much $ the telecoms are willing to dispose of, to get their way? Do you have any idea whatsoever?
If ordinary JUSTICE doesn't sway these senators to do the right thing, 300 million faxes won't matter either.
I'm really tired of writing letters to congress people. Either they have a higher calling ($$$), or they are just plain stupid to not know justice when it hits them squarely between their eyes.
i don't think calling either of my senators is going to do me any good. one is senile, the other is the minority leader who constantly goes against his constituents and has attached himself to gubna bush.
I know what you mean, Lollimom. A donation of big bucks from a telecom company is gonna trump my request every time. Remember the big bucks Leahy recently received for his supporting them. I bet they have more available to others too.
My senator is Feinstein.
I'll call Boxer, but I won't waste the time expressing my opinion to DiFi.
Call our senators what?
All we have is that aging Breck Girl who thinks her job is to be a boosh apologist instead of representing the Texas view, and that other reichwing idiot, who's too afraid of his constituents to meet with them.
no bush immunity
heh...
ysbaddaden @ 13:
I have heard, but cannot confirm, that Cornyn has or is willing to meet w/"some' Texas
constituents, however, like his idol/mentor(bush-lite), he is wanting all participants to
to be screened in order to be assured they are his supporters and, of course, wants
all questions to be posed to be likewise screened beforehand.
YES, CALL YOUR SENATORS BECAUSE THEY LISTEN SO GODDAMN WELL.
fuck the usa.
Neither of the Senators from my state are on the list. Would one of the others even bother reading something from someone not from their state?
Isn't this the bill that Chris Dodd promised he would fillibuster if it went to a vote? Is he still planning on doing so? He did receieve quite a lote of donations when he made that statement, and I'm hoping that he wasn't bluffing(!) or I would call into question the ethical manner in which he was able to acquire all of that money.
Believe me, I'm rooting for him to do so! But, I fear that it was all talk...although I hope I'm terribly wrong.
Here's a list of the members
http://judiciary.senate.gov/members.cfm
You can follow links from this page for contact details for each individual member.
Democracy is not a spectator sport!
HDon @ 17:
I think the point trying to be made is that eventually, both issues will have to come to
the floor of the full U.S. Senate for a vote,, so we all need to let "our" supposedly representatives know how we feel by contacting them.
Well, I certinaly know how Martinez will vote. He tows the party line every single time.
And so does Vern Buchanan. Bitches.
Martinez did vote against his party on the water projects bill that bush had vetoed. I'll give him a tad of credit for that. The Everglades cleanup project was at stake as was the Indian River Lagoon cleanup project here in Fla.
Oops, I was talking about the Fla Martinez, I didn't know there was another one.
pissed off patricia @ 23:
Not all that familiar with the geographical locations of the two areas you mentioned, but
am wondering if either is a region where water is being pumped/diverted from the Lake
in Georgia(which as you know is in a severe drought situation) to Florida?
the neo stasi can go to Hell
pissed off patricia @ 24:
I was talking about FL Martinez. I must have missed his name when I looked at the roll call for the water project. I'll give him a 1/2 credit. But that's it. I can't stand that man.
Doggiebobo @ 25:
The Everglades are down the Miami way.
There is another issue in this bill that people seem to gloss over. The immunity provisions cover the telecoms from private lawsuit damages, they do not prevent state utility commissions or state AGs from investigating whether state privacy laws were violated, and if so, fining the companies. There is ANOTHER provision in the bill that expressly preempts all state investigations. Not only does this protect them from penalties, it also closes one of the most effective mecahnisms for dragging this crap out into the light of day.
So, if you call your senators make sure you encourage them to oppose this other provisions as well.
<Looks like another opportunity for the dems to cave in.
Called Ron Wyden and Gordon Smith, but I'll be surprised if I bat better than .500.
Mel Martinez is a stooge for the republics, just like Iliana Ros-Lehtinen. They like preserving the banana republic feel of South Florida.
The Everglades, or what's left of it, stretches from central Palm Beach County all the way south to Florida Bay.
ctk in ky3 @ 10:
You mean McConnel isn't the senile one?
Congress can pass no ex post facto law according to the constitution article one section nine period.
This must really be an important turning point if all the thread-derailers and glum "it'll never work" pessimists show up for comments.
So, I use the tapped telephone to complain about them tapping the telephone...OK
When will someone point out EXACTLY what this means to tap phones?
Most Joes and Janes out there think nobody will listen to little ole me, and they are probably right.
BUT they are stealing inside business information, listening in on Senators and other government officials, and they are categorizing us for future opportunities and punishments.
if congress grants immunity to the telecoms and indirectly makes the public accountable for any penalties, then it's time to remove all those in congress and the whitehouse and replace them with rational beings who will uphold the constitution and the U S cititzens rights and privacy.
The ex post facto clause is only applicable to criminal actions and means that you can't be prosecuted for something that is illegal now if you did it when it was legal. For example, I drank when I was 18 but that was legal then. When the law changed and the drinking age went to 21 it did not retroactively make what I did illegal. It prevents you from being blindsided with liability over something that was legal when you did it.
Retroactive immunity is something entirely different and the ex post facto clause has no application here.
I just did a little checking, there appears to be some application to certain civil circumstances but the basic concept is the same. Punishment or consequences cannot be made greater after the fact. It does not apply to alleviating consequences.
As if there was not enough to freak out about on this, my other concern is about the data, now captured, mined and stored. We have no idea where this is going and how it will be used against the public in the future. Given the way the white house handed Plame over to the repub media and attack machine, why would they not direct this data now, to their power brokers, as an "ace-in-the-hole", especially in the future when (if?) liberals and dems hold the power?
Amongst those of like-minds, we find ourselves asking, "why are more people not outraged?" I would like a better answer than the one I have come up with:
Outrage is an emotional communication with a feedback response. A baby whines for attention, and if attention given, then the communication is validated and enforced. If unrequited, that form of communication is less-valued and less-practiced. When I look around me, at my fellow "mainstream" Americans, at what the media is not reporting, at what are elected officials are not paying attention to, I sense that the feedback response is muted and it is no wonder that people feel powerless to even express their concerns and opinions in public.
That is why I love the blogs and the comment streams, because there are important reasons to be outraged and I sure as hell won't get that from my batshit crazy redneck moron town where I live.
Sigh @ 38:
it WAS illegal then, it IS illegal now.
PERIOD.
I am absolutely certain DiFi is intent on doing the WH and telcoms bidding on this. Nothing I can write to her or say to some flunky on the phone is going to change that sad reality.
She is what she is and whatever honor and credibility she may have pocessed post Moscone assasination way back when, she has long since squandered for personal profit and ego gratification And I am embarrassed that it took me this long to see her true colors...I did vote for her more than once...Such is the example of my own ignorance on display.
I am also fairly certain Boxer will vote against telcom immunity and I will thank her for that principled stand next week when she sends me a little email detailing her vote.. As for Pelosi??? Regardless of what she might say today or last week, or in some email trolling for money, when the chips are down? She will probably cave....Just like it seems to be with her on everything of real importance.. Pretty pathetic. Sorry Paul in LA, as I've said before, I'd like to see things your way but reality too often intrudes on that...Which in no way is intended to denigrate what you have done in the past to fight for democratic ideals. Sorry pal, I just think you and I both bought into something with her last winter that just isn't holding up...
So, the only real step I can take, I already have taken in that I wrote in support of the censure resolution against DiFi the other day. IF there was a process to recall her, I'd sign on to that too.
But the process doesn't exist. IF the telcoms get their immunity deal, which will have the effect of shielding the Bush administration from one of the last official avenues to get at their specific skullduggery in all this, it will indeed be another nail in the coffin of a Democratic United States of America...I'd say in closing that 'we are so fucked' but it is self evident and I and everyone who cares have already said it waay too many times already...
I will instead close by saying I hope enough politicians voting on this thing decide to be statemen at least on this one issue...I know DiFi won't but others can, and the nation really needs this immunity deal swept away so real oversite of the underhandedness of the last seven years might at least have a chance to see the light of day.... There is a alot at stake for the nation here in this little telcom deal......I hope the hell we get it right on it...................JD
No wonder Dick Durban (previously mentioned on C&L for mentioning possible Dem force of GOP to filibuster Iraq funding) came forth with another pre-cave cave-in:
It's just more Dem Spelunking: cave-in to cave-in to keep them doing nothing till the campaign is fully in swing, when, of course, they wouldn't want to "politicize" issues. Spreading around the collaboration with the worst admin in history among the Dem leadership, Bush Dogs and rookie / newbie Dems also makes it harder to punish the egregious offenders too.
I thought it would be difficult to find a creature worse than a rubber stamp Repug but these enabling Dems are at least on par. At least Repugs are holding fast to their own ideas and agenda.
I feel ill.
They will pass some ruling that gives immunity.
Just like they will pass something that says; "Waterboarding is wrong" -- thus insuring that previous Waterboarding done while it was STILL WRONG, won't get prosecuted.
I'm convinced now that the Dems are in Cahoots with the Republicans. If they don't show any backbone on this FISA bill or force the Republicans to physically fillibuster the de-funding vote -- then you should consider them enablers of the Reich-wing too.
These are the toll-free numbers to the White House switchboard. Simply ask the operator to connect you to any Senator or Congressperson.
1 (800) 828 - 0498 1 (800) 459 - 1887 1 (800) 614 - 2803 1 (866) 340 - 9281 1 (866) 338 - 1015 1 (877) 851 - 6437
The members of the Senate Judiciary Committee are here:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/members.cfm
It only takes a couple minutes to call them. There's no excuse not to.
tjb @ 34:
A canard. The Supreme Court has held since very early on that this means that the Congress cannot make punishments WORSE. Reducing punishments (or in the case with this Senate bill, immunity) is not a case of ex post facto law.
I called Cornyn's office earlier today and his staffer was all bent out of shape, trying to imply that Cornyn wasn't up to no good on this issue. I'd encourage everyone to call Cornyn above the other members of the committee just to pile on. The guy has to be Bush's biggest rubberstamping cheerleader in the senate.
My senator Orin has outrageously come out for retroactive immunity.
God I'm so sick of that partisan bitch.
Jack Damage @ 42 "I am also fairly certain Boxer will vote against telcom immunity and I will thank her for that principled stand next week when she sends me a little email detailing her vote.. As for Pelosi??? Regardless of what she might say today or last week, or in some email trolling for money, when the chips are down? She will probably cave..."
You are talking about a Senate bill. The Speaker is not in the Senate.
The Speaker, and ALL of the House leadership, have made it entirely clear that there will be no profer of immunity from the House until the extent of the program is completely documented to the House committees by the Shitehouse.
"two very important issues: (1) no telecom immunity and (2) no basket warrants."
This (2) is an odd "very important issue. The ACLU website lists exactly ONE link to any mention on their site of "basket warrants."
TMK, basket warrants refer to foreign surveillance not targeted at US persons.
"In cases of foreign-to-domestic communications, the court would issue a “basket warrant” that would apply to a designated foreign group — such as a list of al Qaeda suspects calling the U.S. — for up to a year. The attorney general and DNI could then authorize wiretapping on those targets without individual warrants, provided that the court would review the targeting procedures and make sure that non-suspect Americans were expunged from the surveillance." http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/house-dems-propose-fix-on-wiretaps-2...
Under FISA RESTORE, the FISA court itself would 'review' the inclusion of any US person in general or 'basket' warrants. That's not the same as FISA authorizing that surveillance first, or providing an individual warrant, but while ACLA spokespersons have at times lit their hair on fire over this arrangement, the suggestion that it authorizes domestic spying outright is false. Given that the FISA court is itself almost a rubberstamp, the 'basket' warrant debate is pretty feeble, compared to all the good that FISA RESTORE would reestablish in the FISA law.
So I think the only real issue is telecom immunity for criminal actions against US persons en masse. That I oppose 100%, and so does the House leadership.
Paul in L.A.
I stand corrected on the Pelosi comment... I stand by my belief regarding our other two reps until I see otherwise... JD
Oh, Jack, if you EVER expect anything from Feinstain other than a slap in the face, you would be mistaken. And she will screw us for the War Party every single time.
The basket warrants issue is minor compared to the immunity profer, which is utterly intolerable.
FREE FAX - FREE FAX
I've used this puppy for ages w/ excellent results.
http://faxzero.com/
No time limits for access, but you are restricted to FAX just two messages a day, and they do limit you to two pages. (Any more than two pages and most pols will be nodding off anyway.)
Paul in L.A.
Agreed, on both points.....JD
at&t etc. won't have to pay off sitting senators. that would not look good. they will just threaten to fund upcoming opponents. that would give many sitting senators pause.
DISCO INFERNO @ 3:
I Hope You are being sarcastic. if You're too busy to do two minutes of research,there are brownshirts down the street ready to do two minutes on Your ass.
These people are driving us to take our cases beyond loud.
If the government takes the lawsuits off the telecoms' hands, then we the tax payers are going to be paying for any damages. That's nuts.
At the same time, if the government basically threatened these companies, or lied to them to convince them to participate... well, even if the telecoms broke the law, that's like entrapment. So there is somewhat of an issue of fairness.
HOWEVER, the telecoms profited from these operations. They should perhaps be liable up to the amount they made participating in these crimes.
Ultimately, I think the most logical and fair outcome would be not to destroy companies who were manipulated into helping the government (*if* that was the case), and also not to make tax payers pay for crimes the White House ordered.
Clearly, we should be holding Administration officials who ordered these crimes CRIMINALLY responsible. Even if our congress won't do the right thing and impeach, STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS can bring charges against these people.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
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