Time for a real filibuster?
By Steve Benen Tuesday Nov 13, 2007 7:14amWhen a senator threatens a filibuster, the Senate holds a cloture vote to end debate on a bill, which requires 60 votes. If the cloture vote fails, the bill is pulled from the floor.
But when it comes to the latest fight over Iraq funding, Senate Dems are apparently considering a plan to force Republicans to follow through and actually filibuster.
Senate Democrats might force Republicans to wage a filibuster if the GOP wants to block the latest Iraq withdrawal bill, aides and senators said Tuesday.
That could set the stage for a dramatic end-of-the-year partisan showdown, which Democrats hope will help them turn voter frustration with Congress and the stalemate over Iraq into anger with the Republican Party.
Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (Ill.), the number two Democrat in the chamber, said a forced filibuster is “possible” and would “generate attention.”
We've heard talk like this before, but it's an encouraging sign. Stay tuned.
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Any one run this by the blue dogs?
I'll believe it when I see it.
we can always dream, cant we?
Been there, seen that.
Not to mention that they seem to want to do it as a media thing-not because it's THE RIGHT THING TO DO
Almost as scary as a sternly worded letter.
just like all the other dem promises, this one is sprinkled heavily with grade A horseshit.
Didn't some media report it incorrectly on the all nighter, claiming it was the Democrats who filibustered?
MargeAggedon @ 5:
Not necessarily true - if they DO force the issue, it does have some consequences....then they can respond to all negative ads next year that say that Dems in Congress did nothing by trotting this out.....Elected officials need to stop running from their records and actually embrace them. Of course, that means they need a record worthy of embracing.
But as also said above, I'll believe it when I see it - a good idea, but I'm not holding my breath, just like with the upcoming Cheney impeachment.
Whenever I hear that the Democrats are standing up to Bush and the Republicans I look at my watch. . . .
Of course, it sounds like they are only doing this because they can use it for political advantage, not because it's the right thing to do. If they were concerned about doing the right thing, they would have forced a showdown with the Republicans on funding Iraq a LONG time agao.
Expect the Dems to grow backbones in '08: They DIDN'T want victory on Iraq in '07, because then they couldn't use it as a political weapon in the elections. But they DO want victory on Iraq in '08 (at least a partial one), to prove that they can get things done.
It's crass, it's disgusting, it's politics as usual. Anyone who thought the Dems would do anything but that were deluding themselves.
(crickets chirping)
Let's see if they are strong enough to stand up to the repubs at last. Better late than never but being late on this has been costly in lives and money.
We have heard it before!
Quit the bull shit threats, because NO ONE BELIEVES that the DEMOCRAT CAUCUS in the US Senate has the BALLS to do A DAMNED THING BUT T-A-L-K!
"THEY" let LIEBERMAN and FEINSTEIN cut "THEIR" throats at every turn: "They" roll over on EVERYTHING because "THEY" do not have the votes.... so why in hell don't they just quit pissing in the wind, pick up all their "perks" and GO HOME!
8 webslinger Says: MargeAggedon @ 5:
Almost as scary as a sternly worded letter.
Not necessarily true - if they DO force the issue, it does have some consequences….then they can respond to all negative ads next year that say that Dems in Congress did nothing by trotting this out…..Elected officials need to stop running from their records and actually embrace them. Of course, that means they need a record worthy of embracing.
But as also said above, I’ll believe it when I see it - a good idea, but I’m not holding my breath, just like with the upcoming Cheney impeachment.
I'm not sure I would believe it IF I saw it.
The thing is, now that this tactic is out in the open, wouldn't the Republicans abandon, or at least alter their strategy?
jesus christ. you don't really believe it this time do you?
I mean it has become comical. Not only are the dems so stupid to fall for Lucy pulling the football away, but so are we and the media.
give me a freaking break this won't happen. bunch of pussies to worried about power.
vote them all out!
They going to roll in beds and cots this time too? Make smoors? Tell ghost stories? Set up an extra shithouse for Larry Craig?
It's a show and then they'll cave. Like Mukasey... FISA... Contempt citations... and every other time Dubya says something that doesn't pump sunshine up their asses.
Ain't... gonna... happen.
For one thing, you need media co-operation. Most likely, it won't be reported... and if not, it will be spun as being the Dems fault.
HardyHarHarHar. I haven't laughed so much since somebody put itching powder in the sleeping bag of the school bully at 6th grade camp.
filibuster?...yeah....right....sure thing.
"We’ve heard talk like this before"
Damn Steve, ya stole my comment.
Everyone knows this will never happen so why even bring it up. I cannot understand why the Democrats did not filibuster Mukasey's nomination. As noted by Andrew Sullivan even the Mississippi Supreme Court in the '20s voided a conviction of a black man who killed a white man because his confession was obtained by water boarding. We now have an attorney general who cannot understand what a white supremacy court understood eighty years ago. America should be proud of that regression.
The Democratic senators speak to what should be done. They want to get credit for their words and have us ignore their actions. I'd like to see what the odds are that the Democrats will not filibuster. If ever there is a sure bet, that is it.
Why would you even PRETEND this is for real at this point?
You mock me, I am offended.
gotta hope ----
hope the dems do it
hope they rent the necessary balls to hold to it
hope DiFi and Liarman don't F(*&) it up
Have to agree with all the above. If the Democrat-led Ethics Committee can't even get moving on the Craig investigation I don't think we can expect them to do anything of substance.
The value of word is in deed.
I think it's time bloggers start realizing once and for all that we're pretty darn sure where the Republicans stand -- little they do can surprise us now -- but we're not always sure where the Democrats stand anymore and dangling carrots of hope are no longer encouraging. Unfortunately what Democrats in Congress have managed to accomplish so far is to make us all skeptical and cynical.
I suspect the Iraq War and the dismantling of the Constitution will be for Democrats what abortion and gay marriage is for Republicans---vote getters. Nothing substantial will ever be done about any of these issues so long as wrapping themselves in the mantle of these ideas garners votes.
Am I wrong? Who's with me?
Even if they end up not filibustering it’s not as though any more Americans will lose their lives or be horribly wounded. Hmmm, I wonder if I should get new carpet in my office.
Good. I hope this happens, then maybe the MSM will cover the news for a change.
Next, they should leave someone in the Senate to prevent a recess appointment of the next Surgeon General.
Every time the 'crats insist they're really going to do something THIS time I am reminded of the old Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons where he keeps trying to pull the rabbit out of his hat.... "This time for SURE!"
Yeah.
Right.
Hopefully this is more than rhetorical coming from our Ersatz House and Senate.
Let's all think positive for a spell.
why do i have images of barny fife running through my head. you know, strong threats, slapping the holstered gun and shaking like a leaf on a tree.
Might this, might that, maybe, maybe, maybe.
Anybody really think DiFi will support a filibuster? Dream on.
Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (Ill.), the number two Democrat in the chamber, said a forced filibuster is “possible” and would “generate attention.”
Cool, until it actually happens, I'll just pretend to give a shit.
.
Floating your offense before the play is underway will always be stupid. Not only does it permit the other team time to frame a response, but it ultimately looks like game-playing.
Simply refusing to advance a bridge bill without a withdrawal plan only takes one statement:
It's that simple. And it's time to quit worrying about the political risks and show some real leadership.
Ruffian @ 4:
Filibusters, in and of themselves, are grandstanding. They are the Congressional equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue so people will give you what you want, and are in essence a publicity stunt. (A Constitutionally supported publicity stunt, but a publicity stunt nonetheless.)
So why should the fact that the proposed response is a publicity stunt be any worse? And this isn't a partisan thing -- when Democrats propose (and/or execute) a filibuster, it's just as big a stunt as when Republicans do it. As long as the public is responsible for giving the members of Congress their jobs, Congress is going to be all about publicity.
Now, that being said, do I really think that the Democratic leadership will bring this to fruition? I'm not completely sure, but I doubt it. As a great man once said, "I used to donate money to the Democratic Party... well, you get your heart broken enough times, you learn your lesson." I do think, as DR said in comment #11, that the Democratic Congresspeople and Senators will grow more of a backbone next year than they had this year, in order to compete in the elections, and that's the only reason why I'm still holding out hope.
Emphasis on the word "might." I would love it if Democrats would man up, and stop living in the subjunctive.
Why Democrats Need To Grow A Set Of Stones
Yeah: we've heard this before, which is why I'm completely unconvinced.
I believe that once an elected legislator sits down at his or her new office desk, there comes a visitor, an evangelical so to speak, who has a come-to-Jesus moment with the brand-spanking-new legislator. When the evangelist leaves the office, the new legislator has become One with the rest of them.
"Jesus knows everything you done, Senator McCaskill. He knows your sins, and he knows how to use them. Won't you come to Jesus and love him? Save yourself! Jesus says, 'Behold, I stand at the door of your office and knock.' Don't you know that you cannot save yourself? Don't you know that Jesus said he came to set brother against brother? Which brother do you want to be? Of course you do. We knew that. You want abundant life, don't you? We can provide that--or we can do something else. Come to Jesus. You know you really don't have a choice."
Sorry Dems, as the old saying goes, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, won't get fooled again.
Is there any doubt that they'll fold faster than an origami master? Is there any doubt that they'll ultimately pass the war funding but will be "victorious" with a rider that says the Chimp must send reports as to why he's withdrawing the troops according to their "recommended" time lines?
That should of course be "why he's *NOT* withdrawing the troops..."
O, accurs-ed brain...
ZZZzzz*
Wake me when something different happens.
The democrats remind me of the townspeople of South Park whenever they go into the mayors office wanting something...
rabble rabble rabble rabble...
Yeah. Sure. Right. When can we expect the response from DiFi stating she won't support this?
Until Pelosi and Reid resign their leadership posts, my feeling is that this is just more pre-cave-in talk.
Why is it just a possibility. This one is a no-brainer. Just do it and stop talking about doing it. Force an actual filibuster. Please. Pretty please.
From kos:
"What's at stake?
A vote on a plan that ties Iraq funding to the "goal" for troop withdrawal. Hmm.
And if the Republicans block the bill? Or Bush vetoes it?
Reid said Tuesday that if the bridge fund does not pass, the Pentagon can start paying for the war out of its regular appropriation. That $459 billion spending bill passed last week and was signed into law Tuesday. If that’s seen as not supporting the troops, voters should blame Republicans and President Bush, not congressional Democrats, he said.
Er, ok.
If you want the money, you have to agree to a "goal" of troop withdrawal. And if you don't agree to it, you can take the money from somewhere else.
Oh yeah. I'm feelin' it! That U.S. Senate is just non-stop action!"
I think I'd have better luck watching roadkill for signs of life than wasting my time expecting this bunch to do anything about anything.
It would be a disgrace if the democrats would succeed in pulling the troops out of Iraq.
Powell was right: You break it, you own it. The US is responsible for Iraq until Iraq is a stable country again. You cannot cause all this suffering in Iraq and then just leave it like this.
And it will not get better by withdrawing the US troops out of it: The US is only one of many fractions inside Iraq.
The only way the US can get out of this is by acknowledging its mistake to invade Iraq and declare the war as lost and the US troops as not able to cope with this mess any
more.
AFTER impeaching Bush and Cheney and installing Pelosi as acting president until January 09 AND imprisoning Bush and Cheney.
If you just weasel out of Iraq by declaring victory and pulling the troops out of it without holding the current administration accountable the US has unrevocably become a rogue nation everybody on earth has to fear.
It does not matter if Clinton, Obama or even Kucinich will be the next president: the world will always know that the democratic president is only an accident and as soon as a republican freak gets to power again it is perfectly possible that the US will invade again random countries, break them and leave it like that, because the POTUS can do anything without being held accountable.
We cannot do anything against you as you are a nuclear superpower but we have to accept that you have become a rogue nation.
Unless you fix this mess in Iraq or you hold your current administration accountable and THEN capitulate and declare the Iraq war a grave mistake that you will not do
again.
Like everyone else has said, I'll believe it when I see it. Republicans are CRIMINALS, Democrats are COWARDS.(with very few exceptions). Throw out all incumbents.
"We’ve heard talk like this before, but it’s an encouraging sign. Stay tuned."
Yes, we've heard talk like this hundreds of times before, and we have been screwed by the Democrats every time. Anyone who can say "it's an encouraging sign" has to be either delusional or in need of constant abuse and disappointment. So get your hopes up and enjoy the screwing!
I'm NOT encouraged!
I won't 'stay tuned'!
As the past record indicates, I know just what to expect.
They are not going to make me bang my head on the desk or the table or the nearest wall.
Phil & Buster's sounds like one of those noisy pizza arcade places.
Or a place for butch gays to get their leather chaps and jockstraps.
When is Mike Myers going to do a parody of the Halloween movies with himself as Michael Myers?
If before the war Iraq was a stable country, did that mean you had to watch where you step?
can't post links?
ysbaddaden @ 53:
If your president is a republican elephant, than yes, for him Iraq was not stable enough so that he could storm in and trample around without breaking anything.
Ellie @ 33:
Wouldn't the other Democratic Senator from Illinois generate alot more attention? Of course, he'd have to show up to generate attention on the job rather than on the stump.
what's wrong here?
Enough fucking 'might'
Get your punk asses in there and make them Republicans haul out the damned cots.
and if they do it... change one word and send it right back again.
and do it again
Until the Republicans drop dead from exhaustion or you get that bill through. Until then you Democrats will not have earned the right to run this country because you are feckless and cowardly.
Don't you worry your pretty little heads.
They won't step up to the plate. The Democrats, that is. They'll fold, as usual.
this country isn't demanding an end to the war. We're whining for it. so sad
Torbin @ 2:
That pretty much sums up my take on this too.
FedUp @ 56:
Good catch! He must be at meeting with the other presidential candidates on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by laying last minute half-claim to possibly the most shameful chapter in US History.
Ho-hum. Just another day in the rapidly declining empire. The Dems won't do shit.
DO IT!
Pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
I have little or NO faith in the dems with few exceptions...I think Kucinich has been the ONLY dem to actually do what he says he's gonna do...the rest are mere politicians...
not another dime for the war. if the beltway bumpkins don't like it, they can pound sand
Man, alot of hatred toward the Democrats in these comments section lately!
Seele @ 68:
Not hate....just distrust, and impatience...we're tired of them doin nothin...
The Democrats won't do anything. They'll cave again...because they really don't care about their oaths of office, or our Constitution, or the unalienable rights of WE THE PEOPLE.
yeah, i would like to believe this, but I won't until it actually happens. they've been STUPID enough this whole time to fail to even make the Repugs filibuster. why? laziness and selfishness. will that suddenly go away this time around? i highly fucking doubt it. will be happy to be proven wrong.
The DLC and the Democratic Leadership are no longer people with a liberal viewpoint or progressive ideas and they call those of us who still have faith in those ideals a fringe element. They insist on centrist positions which now means right wing and moderation which now means it can only get done with right wing approval.
We no longer have a damn party.
The Dems forcing a filibuster....with comments like, "There might be, we may require,
or maybe a filibuster will occur.." Come on, they will do as they have done since
Nov. 06(remember "they" won House and Senate) and do absolutely NOTHING.
Bunch of fools and tools; but they still think that using threats is going to work...NOT
Riiighht... I'll believe it when I see it... Until, then.. Just a lot of talk talk......JD
Hope springs eternal? The Democrats will roll over as soon as Bill'o and Rush and Malkin start up. They always have and always will.
The Democrats (for the most part) are nothing but the other wing of the national WarParty!
The Defeat-o-crats hopelessly SUCK. I wouldn't believe this if Harry himself told me.
*
Sadly true - dems are pussies. If they actually grow some cojones and do this, and then push OTHER issues as well, it will be proof that
god existsthey aren't TOTAL pussies. I'll start holding my breath now.... OK, long enough. Why fight it? Repugnicans are hypocritical, jackass bastards. Dems are spineless pussies. Time for a revolution, or maybe to just leave the country for a more civilised place...Trittydi @ 78:
Harry is vewy amusing!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=harry+reid&search=Search
Trittydi @ 78:
Harry is vewy amusing!
Okay, question for loyal Dems:
It's often stated that the reason WHY the Democrats don't force filibusters, push impeachment, refuse to send blank-check bills out of committee, etc. etc. is because they are engaged in a high stakes game of realpolitik and they must, must, must work with the numbers they have.
Those of us who impatiently demand that they push to end the war, impeach the criminal administration or, at the very least, hold the war to SOME kinds of standards for success are being unreasonable purists who are throwing the baby out to spite or face or something.
All right. Let's take that premise as granted. Why, then, do the Democrats persist in CLAIMING that they will hold the president's feet to the fire? If actually pushing a showdown is just counterproductive stuntery, then why even start down that path? Why not just say, "Look, the president will veto anything we send him unless it's exactly what he wants and that veto will stand so we're not going to waste our time trying. Sorry. If you want action, give us one-party rule."
Why pretend?
Or will we have a right to be angry when they back down...again?
ed kriner @ 77:
repugs minus nads equals democrats
Jeez, this PISSES ME OFF! The GOP has played the filibuster card this term more often than any Senate minority in HISTORY, and nobody says BOO about it. From now on, I say bring on the cloture vote every damned time. Force their hand. We should get as many of these bastards as we can on record for their votes, instead of letting them squirm off the hook. Quit pussyfooting around, Dick, and ROLL THE DAMNED DICE!!!!!
Yeah fuckin' right. They ain't gonna do shit. And note, we're not even talking about them actually doing something. We're talking about them working up the balls to attempt to provoke the Republicans into doing something. But everyone knows that's a bit too assertive for this pathetic Congress.
Pussiest. Majority. EVER.
I'll believe it when I see it!
Come on spineless dems; surprise me for a change. I'm waiting?????
"Considering" is spineless democrat code for "idle threat".
Have they caved on this yet?
is this a new record?
I could have some confidence in the democrats if they new how to control the Dian Feinstines of the party. I will attempt to stay tuned and hope for the best because at this point and time these fools are all we really have to go with and that simply scares the hell out of me.
I have to wonder....
Did the Dems get together at someones house and watch “Rocky” or some other inspirational movie and then find their balls in the cat box? It’s about time they did something….anything…..
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