Dennis Kucinich at the Global Warming Debate
By Nicole Belle Sunday Nov 18, 2007 1:40pm
(h/t Heather)
You knew we had to post this...
On a related note, the most news generated by this debate was unfortunately not the substance of the issues as raised by Kucinich and Edwards, but that Hillary Clinton was heckled. Turns out that it was a Code Pink member.
Hey media? Do you think maybe focusing more on the ideas brought forth, like Kucinich here, and less on the prom queen popularity aspect might actually be helpful? It's only the health and future of the planet we're talking about...
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As much as I love when Clinton is heckled - the media will always focus on the anecdotally and "diamonds or pearls" type things. They need to focus on the issues instead of spinning everything to masks the real problems like Nafta and lack of national health insurance. If the public knew what was going on politically as opposed to how much head Paris Hilton gives - we'd be a lot better off. If the media focuses as much on Nafta as they have done on Lindsay Lohen we would have a damn revolution from the working class.
psst...
the media will never treat Kucinich like a legitimate candidate.
he is a danger to the corporatocracy and its stranglehold on the world. and, because of that, the MSM will do what it takes to attempt to paint Kucinich in an unfavorable light. which is why he has my 100% support. he is the only democratic candidate i look up to and whole heartedly support.
Kucinich 08: strength, courage, integrity.
kucinich is my personal hero, weirdo-nerd with his facts straight and his heart in the right place.
While I support the code pink folks...they got to get better at picking events/people to heckle.
They are making their image get worse by randomly heckling speakers and also coming across as being "crazy". Sorry I had to say that. I hope they organize better and really go after the real power brokers...who act behind the scenes.
Zoommmmmmmm ZOooooooommmmmmm
I too feel, almost always, that the MSM is not fair and balanced(in fact slanted) when
giving it's reports, however, when reading the MyFox article and watching the video
of Hillary being heckled, I did NOT read or observe the media "focuings" it's attention
on the "prom queen"; but did in fact cover the positions of Hillary, Edwards and Kucinich
as to the problems associated w/global warming...so guess it's all in the eyes/ears of
the individual...and being objective as to what actually occurred at the LA conference.
Kucinich could have also added that the United States military uses an extraordinary amount of oil and gas in their tanks and Hummers as they march ever onward in their quest to wipe out as many people as they can in order to establish and maintain their domination over countless countries and people in the world, all done in order to propagate the American Empire.
In the eyes of the elite mouthpieces in the Corporate Media, whenever one of us "little people" who don't matter criticize a member of the elite, it's not the content of what we say that matters, but how we say it.
In an ideal world this man would be president and Bush and Cheney would be getting waterboarded in Syria.
Well....I would have preferred they would've asked Joe Biden one more question at the last debate and ditched the pearl vs. beads nonsense. The public would've been much better served.
Adger, an intern with the Kucinich campaign, suggests that rather than giving our money away to corporate America on Black Friday, the biggest shopping day of the year, that we invest in America instead by giving it to Dennis Kucinich on November 23rd. Light Up Black Friday - Donate $100 to Dennis. Kucinich is rising in the polls, and is only 3 points behind Edwards in New Hampshire. Donate to this man.
They(cable news shows) had plenty of time this morning to show the Huckabee/Norris ad for free. They've had plenty of time today to talk about the Novak piece regarding the Clinton campaign and Obama. Sorry, they just can't squeeze in any time for Dennis.
Sad state of affairs, if you ask me.
...the waterboarding would not be at the behest of the U.S. government. Maybe Bush and Cheney are just kidnapped or something.
Dennis is the only candidate with the guts to tell the truth. The rest disgust me.
don't be a pussy. vote for kooch.
As a reader and an appreciative fan of this site for more than a year it is disappointing that the lie that Carbon Dioxide rather than the Sun is causing Global Warming promoted. Global warming is real – The reason this is a story is to get the ignorant to pay taxes to god knows who, to do what?.
pissed off patricia @ 12:
IMHO, it's a form of intellectual laziness.
Stenography and tail-chasing (the "inevitable Hillary" silliness we're being deluged with) is so much easier than actually going out and covering a story.
Ever hear of "Planet of the Apes"? Global Warming sound similiar.
Kucinich is as anti-American in his ideas as his name sounds.
He should come up here to Canada after he loses the nomination. We could use someone like him.
This man has a vision, so you know what, he gets my vote. Of course he'll be eliminated in the early primaries and I'll be left with Clinton v Noun, Verb, 9/11.
God, Hillary acts just like a freakin Republican! If she really cared she would say "Let the man speak" answer his questions, and not talk over him with useless bs. She behaved horribly, just like John Kerry did in Florida. No self respecting liberal would behave like that towards a citizen. Oh right, we're just consumers, not fucking United States citizens. How dare they!
Right before the man started shouting questions to her (which is NOT heckling) Hillary was saying that the public had to do more. Why should WE be asked to do more.... we are sick and tired of her not doing her job! Do your job, chick!!
Go Edwards!
media covering the salient, pertinent points of a debate?
oh yeah, right!
He's talking perfect sense. Surely he's going to get ripped apart by Republicans for this.
sickandtired @ 20:
governor @ 16:
Please explain why, in a closed, windowless room that accumulates carbon dioxide by way of exhalation, that the temperature rises.
It's not because of the sun.
Let's conduct an experiment. Take two transparent boxes, fill one with nothing but carbon dioxide and one with only oxygen. Expose both to the sun and measure the temperature during the day. Consider both the maximum temperature achieved in each box, and the cool-down after the sun sets or the boxes are removed from direct sunlight. (Each box should also contain more carbon dioxide if the 'sun causes carbon dioxide' claim is true.)
Dennis is The Man!
He's the only candidate with the moral standing against the war. He is pro-choice; pro-working class; pro-peace; for non-for-profit-universal health care; pro constitution; anti-discrimination, to name a few things.
Like I said, he's The Man!
Go Dennis!
And why do the police and security have the right to remove someone from the audience... and with such obscene force? This whole taser thing isn't funny.... bro. It's brown shirt bullshit.
Shadowgm @ 24:
Body heat?
Just sayin'. Pretty much every "scientist" in the world agrees that the CO2 is a problem, I will accept their opinions rather than the opinion of some random commenter that bases his/her mindset on an unwillingness to change.
Man I love Dennis Kucinich. He's getting a check from me in the mail. Why are Progressives sticking with Edwards, why can't we get behind the only true blue democratic candidate in years?
Just curious? When Dennis Kucinch gets his ass whipped in all the primaries, who are
ALL of his supporters then going to support? Not being argumentative, for I too like
Dennis K.; but at some point in time we are going to have to face facts(he canNOT win),
so am anxious to know which of the other Democrat candidates(hopefully), his supports are going to favor.
Oh great, now it'll look like the bug eyed space critters are causing global warming by using the Earth as a briquette in an intergalactic barbeque.
Kucinich cannot win, therefore you must not vote for him. If you do, you're just throwing your vote away. By distracting people with these so-called "issues," he's just dividing the base at a time when it's critical to rally behind the front runner so we can unify the party against the Republicans.
So, please, Kucinich supporters, give up your pipe dream of a presidential candidate who actually personally believes in what he says and is willing to be specific and stand by his words. This is unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking.
Instead, lend your support to one of the big three Democrats for the primary and then get fully behind whichever of the three gets the nomination.
It's really irresponsible and unrealistic of you to do anything else. Kucinich has no power, therefore you should not listen to him or give him any encouragement.
Because all that matters is acquiring power. Once the Democrats have absolute power, trust me, they will start doing the right thing.
Until that time comes, however, don't give up faith. Faith is the most important value we hold. My faith is dear to me and it informs everything I do. So, have faith in the Democratic party. They really are on your side, but they're smart enough not to admit it as long as the Republicans have the ability to smear them.
See, your views are very, very, very unpopular, so even though the Democrats really actually are totally behind you, you understand that they have to make it look like they're not.
But don't worry. Listen for secret coded messages in their speeches. When they talk about how "the Good Lord made us the shepherds of the earth" what they're REALLY saying is "we support reasonable, responsible, fact-based environmental policies."
They just can't SAY that.
Vote Hillary. It's your only choice. Because we own you.
governor @ 16:
Even if the sun was causing global warming, do we really want to go adding to its effect by producing vast amounts of CO2 that create a greenhouse effect? Surely we should be doing something to reduce the concentration.
I don't think some people realise just how much CO2 we are talking about here. Apparently global CO2 emissions in 2004 were 28,000,000,000 (28 Billion) tons. That's 4 tons per person, roughly. The figures I just looked at from the IEA says global demand is at roughly 85,000,000 (85 million) barrels a DAY.
Just for a minute visualise 85 million barrels of oil laid out in front of you. They would cover an area of about 4.5km by 4.5km, or 3 miles x 3 miles. Now imagine them set alight, imagine the thick black choking smoke that would give off. Thats the Oil that the world burns in just one day! We burn that 7 days a week, 365 days a year!
And you're telling me that that has no effect?
Not to mention Coal and natural gas CO2!
JasonS @ 32: Snark and/or sarcasm??..cannot tell for sure.
Doggiebobo @ 30:
I disagree strongly with this assessment. If you do not vote in the primaries with your heart, you probably never will...Primaries are about ideals, the presidential election is political...
Also, I would just like to say how DISGUSTED I am by the corporatist propaganda machine POSING as 'liberal media' in their frighteningly unified effort to paint this brilliant, passionate AND righteous man as a "crazy"...
It saddens me deeply, and they are all in on it...
The most honest and rational man running for president is RIDICULED and trivialized SYSTEMATICALLY by all the minions of the (failing)dollar-machine by appealing to our superficiality and vanity. He's too short/weird/crazy/elf.... Do not dare hear him, just look at him through THEIR lens...
Please someone, save us from ourselves...
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The Truthiness Hurts @ 33:
I forgot to specify that here I was starting on a bit talking about Oil consumption. I'm an idiot...
JasonS @ 32:
Fixed.
This guy is truly inspirational. A patriot. Absolutely dedicated to making this country a better place.
I have signed up to the campaign because I know the real deal when I see it.
Great post, Nicole.
Of course the sun is causing global warming. There's a lot of greenhouse gas on Titan...much more than on Earth...and that place is very, very cold.
Why?
It's far away from the sun.
The atmosphere of Mars is about 100% carbon dioxide. It's chilly there, too. Why? Too far from the sun.
Venus is about the size of the earth but her atmosphere is much, much, much hotter. Why? Too close to the sun.
So, call your senators today and let them know: we need to either move the earth further away from the sun or start investing today in a really, really, really big parasol.
Brought to you by the C. Montgomery Burns Institute For Global Scientism - We Provide Simple Answers to Complex Problems
I still remain whole heartedly in support of this little dweeby former boy mayor of Cleveland with the hottie wife and the 'real' straight talk that others only wish and P.R. spin about.... Even more so after seeing this segment of that debate. I am not disabused of the notion that he IS the only candidate who gets it, really gets what's going on, what the stakes are and has a real vision and the fortitude, and cajones all packed into that little five foot what frame to get it, if not done, then significantly started.. I don't care how much the MSM and others wish to ignore him... This MAN, is the real deal!
He has my vote at this point and I don't see any silly frilly bullshit about Hillary or any of the others changing my mind.. I don't think I'm the only one who is seeing this man and his words rise in stature above all the others on both sides of these political parties. If I were Edwards or Obama or Dodd, I'd seriously be approaching this man for a possible callaboration politically in some kind of president/vice president pairing... Kucinich needs to be part of the equation to solve this sickness our nation has been saddled with since... Well, since Reagan actually...............JD
Doggiebobo @ 34:
Really? Then we're much worse off than I thought :)
The more I see of Kucinich, the more I like him. I think he's got the vision necessary to make a great leader who would improve our world, the people in it, and the outlook of our future. This is probably why he has no chance...
No matter - he will get my vote.
An Other Greek @ 35:
I concur, and WILL vote for Dennis K. in the primaries, but realistically due to the MSM's
total lack of coverage/attention pertaining to his views/opinions/positions, I am thinking
"out loud" and just wondering "what if" Kucinich is not successful, then what????
JasonS @ 39:
Okay, now I know you're just BSing, thanks for clearing that one up :P
JasonS @ 39:
Venus is incredibly hotter than it should be because of its runaway greenhouse gas effect. I guess you were trying to be funny but your information is wrong.
sharkcellar @ 13:
I really hope that other nations are planning to arrest Bush or Cheney when they set foot in their country, and extradite them back to the US for trial.
Doggiebobo @ 43:
If Kucinich doesn't win the nomination, I will vote for the Democratic nominee. What do you think, we're going to write him in and "steal" the votes from Billary?
I concur, and WILL vote for Dennis K. in the primaries, but realistically due to the MSM's
total lack of coverage/attention pertaining to his views/opinions/positions, I am thinking
"out loud" and just wondering "what if" Kucinich is not successful, then what????
well, when that time comes, we will have to be good little serfs and vote our only choice, the democrat that wins the primary. What else? But until then, let ideas, not politics or strategy define the candidate...
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I am thinking “out loud” and just wondering “what if” Kucinich is not successful, then what????
Well, there's no "what if" about it. Monkeys will fly out of our collective butts before Kucinich sees the inside of the White House without being accompanied by a docent.
BUT...
If he gets enough support in the primaries that his endorsement will carry weight, then he can use that as a bargaining chip to get his policies supported by the candidate who does get the nomination.
Support for minor and/or third party candidates is not about winning the election, it's about getting your issues onto the winning platform so when the empty suit bobblehead that is narcissistic/sociopathic enough to actually win starts blindly fumbling about to find an issue that will "connect" with the people, s/he'll have something more to go on than whatever cooked numbers his/her media consultant pulled out of his ass that morning.
Sport reporting is much more serious than politics it turns out. When someone in the audience behaves badly at a sporting event by running onto the field or something else that distracts from the game it's ignored by the broadcasters and reporters so as not to encourage that kind of behavior in the future from others. When it happens in a political debate the bad behavior, heckling in this case, becomes the most reported on part of the event! Boy, are we ever screwed.
The man has a vision. He gives me hope that America and the world can become a better place. He sees the possibilities and he believes that the good in people will win out over greed and hate. How could I not support this great man. Kucinich '08.
Question: Why is it that the intelligent, skilled, principled, genuinely good people usually look like total dorks?
Second question: What the hell is wrong with a large majority of people in this country (probably the world) that they will not vote for someone who looks like a total dork?
Third question: What do we have to do to get the people from Kucinich's district to teach the rest of the country that it's ok to vote for someone who doesn't look like an aging football star or your grandpa.
Seriously, Kucinich is far and away the candidate in this field who says the most of what I agree with, and I honestly believe he'd do a spectacular job as president (which doesn't necessarily go with being "smart"--there are plenty of people with the right ideas who'd make a crappy leader). But while I'll support him as far as is practical (I don't think I'd vote Kucinich if he were running as a 3rd party candidate against, say, Obama and Rudy), I honestly don't believe the man could get elected--he just doesn't look "manly" enough for a large portion of the electorate.
Maybe I'm underestimating the intelligence of the majority of Americans (who, I remind, elected The Gipper because he looked like grandpa and Bush II because you "could have a beer with him"), but thus far I've never managed to do that with any large group--as dumb as you think they might be, on average they're uniformly dumber.
Maybe Kucinich just needs a Clay Aiken-style makeover. His wife's certainly got it going on.
Say... would people vote for her?
mo_dems @ 45:
Le sigh. I. Know.
Check the sig at the bottom: The C. Montgomery Burns Institute for Scientism.
See, this was an example of making a SPECIOUS argument on behalf of a caricature of the opposition, straw man humor.
Venus has experienced a runaway greenhouse effect and has an atmosphere dominated by greenhouse gases. That atmosphere is also much, much thicker than earth's because Venus has no oceans to absorb atmospheric gas.
Furthermore, Venus cannot sequester her carbon-based atmospheric components in terrestial carbonaceous minerals because a combination of the lack of water (and therefore a lack of carbonic acid to form minerals) and the kiln-like surface temperatures which bake the terrestrial rock into a hard substance which does not react easily with the volatiles in the atmosphere.
That's why there's so much (otherwise unstable) acid in the atmosphere.
Venus' warming woes are further complicated by her active vulcanism. Crater impact maps of Venus indicate that the entire surface of the planet is the same age, and relatively young at that.
This suggests that Venus goes through period of global, catastrophic surface melting where the entire planet becomes molten. Geologists are generally uncomfortable with catastrophism, so this hypothesis is still controversial, but no other likely hypothesis explains her surface characteristics.
What this suggests is that Venus does not radiate heat faster than she produces/absorbs it. When the surface becomes molten, much energy is lost in the form of infrared radiation. Then the temperature drops and the surface solidifies.
Mr. K .
is the man
he has my support and donations
this weekend ...capitol,news ...took a poll on who won the last Democratic debate and Kucinich won with 46%
Big bidness says, "The health and future of the planet you say? How much money is in it for me....". See them big bidness people think they are safe or something....
Marc @ 52:
I like that idea! Either Kucinich would get my vote.
Also, Abraham Lincoln was a pretty hideous man, was he not? And George Bush looks like a monkey, for chrissakes.
Jason at whatever number;
Gotta admit Holmes,you had me going there for a moment too..
Till I followed thru the thread a bit further... Man that is Colbert level whit... Dry as a martini....shaken, not stirred...pretty excellent dude... right on...;-) JD
Question: Why is it that the intelligent, skilled, principled, genuinely good people usually look like total dorks?
Did you see South Park last week?
Good looking people don't have to bother to become intelligent, skilled, principled or genuinely good.
JasonS @ 53:
Sorry, your comment telling me support Hillary or I might as well kill myself made me hate you.
Doggiebobo @ 43:
I plan on penciling him in and voting for him period. He is the candidate I support. I will not vote for someone I don't agree with. Clinton? Nope. A repuke? Nope. I suggest you write in the person that most reflects your values.
mo_dems Says:
Sorry, your comment telling me support Hillary or I might as well kill myself made me hate you.
No. You must support Hillary. Killing yourself is not an option.
JasonS @ 58:
Haha. I was going to post this, but I couldn't remember where I learned it. Thanks JasonS!
:lol:
Code Pinkies seem to have confused narcissism for activism.
peaceful easy feeling @ 63:
Yeah, so narcissistic, they're willing to get arrested.
If he ever gets elected, this guy will finish like JFK...
Frepi @ 65:
Mr. Kucinich? Mkay, this photo is for Congressional Quarterly. Good...good...could I get you to back up just a little bit? And move to your left?
That's right: back, and to the left...
Back, and to the left...
Back, and to the left...
Back, and to the left...
Sorry, we hire reporters for their looks or their pedigree. Prom Queen Popularity is pretty much peak performance for them.
Keep them coming, JasonS. "Killing yourself is not an option," "Le sigh" you've made my afternoon.
Anyone who says he cannot win is the epitome of a "Cut and Run" Democrat. Maybe you could try supporting a candidate that you believe in for the primaries instead of just assuming good always loses? If enough people stopped accepting they're always going to be on the losing side maybe they wouldn't be anymore. If Kucinich doesn't get elected and we're stuck with a "lite" Republican as our Democratic candidate it will be because of the pessimistic whiny brats who'd rather vote for a "winner" instead of a real leader.
Stupid Git Says:
If Kucinich doesn’t get elected and we’re stuck with a “lite” Republican as our Democratic candidate it will be because of the pessimistic whiny brats who’d rather vote for a “winner” instead of a real leader.
Voting your conscience is irresponsible. You must vote my conscience.
Old Billy @ 67:
Don't you see? If you kill yourself, that just helps the Republicans. Nothing is worse than helping the Republicans.
Code. Pink. Is. Awesome.
That is all.
I finally got around to contributing some money to his campaign today. Go do it! :)
governor @ 16:
First of all, it's not just carbon dioxide but that's the one we produce the most of -- others are more toxic but produced less. Secondly, it's not necessary to believe in 'Global Warming' or 'Global Cooling' to realize that we can't keep on polluting at the rate we are and not have it affect our health and the health of our children. The world population will double very soon and the excess population will come from the industrialization of third world countries. We need to help them get on the path of clean energy right away. The U.S. has been spewing noxious gases into the atmosphere with reckless abandon until now and we need to stop.
Don't get hung up and the 'Warming' or 'Cooling' terminology if it bothers you - focus on what's good for the environment vs. what isn't.
hadenuf @ 64:
Precisely, they crave the attention, that's for sure! The point is Code Pinkie's methods are actually scaring away potential supporters who are on the fence.
Dennis Kucinich all the way!!!
Aloha Dennis, you ROCK!!
"On a related note, the most news generated by this debate was unfortunately not the substance of the issues as raised by Kucinich and Edwards, but that Hillary Clinton was heckled. Turns out that it was a Code Pink member.
Hey media? Do you think maybe focusing more on the ideas brought forth, like Kucinich here, and less on the prom queen popularity aspect might actually be helpful? It’s only the health and future of the planet we’re talking about…"
Hey, Crooks & Liars? Do you think that maybe focusing some of your energy away from incessantly lambasting Hillary Clinton might actually be helpful and more open-minded? In this case, the woman is being insulted for something she isn't responsible for - how she's covered by the media. (Although many who post here would argue that she's 'in bed' with 'the corporations,' which I suppose means she influences every company in the United States.)
Neo-liberals here accuse Hillary Clinton of being a Republican because she's a centrist, while neo-conservatives call her a Marxist and a socialist for being a centrist. Even though her voting record is decidedly liberal (there are hundreds of independent studies that will confirm this) and almost entirely similar to, say, that of Barack "Hero of the People" Obama, she's an evil monster who can't wait to Thatcher us all to death.
Just my two cents.
On a pseudo-related note...
To Hope, if s/he reads this: Commenting was closed when I went to reply to your previous post in another thread, which sharply accused me of disingenuous posting tactics. Rest assured that I do not intentionally troll and it wasn't until recently that I found Crooks & Liars as well as a good chunk of those who post here to be flippant and thoughtless towards Hillary. I post when I can, which is once or twice a day, and in that time will usually reply to a few posts out of hundreds that I've skimmed (some I agree with, and others that I don't). I doubt this is all that unusual. I do apologize for getting frustrated and cutting a little too loose at times, because online that can seem arrogant, etc. The fact of the matter is that your long post detailing specifically what you dislike about Hillary was one of very few which came across as intelligeable and thought-out. Many posts here call her a few names and leave it at that, begging me to rebuke that she is some form of capitalist witch-demon. So, that's the long and the short of it!
What kills me is that folks say Kucinich too 'weird' to be our leader....well he's the only one out of the bunch that looks, acts and sounds like a leader. The rest crumble at the thought of not being seen as 'strong enough on national security'. If saving our planet which also happens to mean saving humanity is not the most crucial component of our national security I do not know what is.
Using the federal government as an engine for sustainability...it's working on smaller scales throughout our nation in cities and counties. Freaking brilliant and possible.
Doggiebobo @ 30:
grow up ~kucinich 08
JasonS @ 32:
yeah fellahs sell out your principals just so shilley or edwards gets elected! lets keep the elite working !
You need to practice a little bit more on your trolling. Overall, I say the attempt was a C-average at best.
the media only care about the sizzle instead of the steak
Even though her voting record is decidedly liberal
yeah, the authorization of force was quite liberal. mandatory private insurance is a pretty liberal idea too, i guess.
see, the problem is that we've been dragged so far to the right that slightly right of center is liberal by comparison.
dennis - now THAT'S a liberal record - not just in voting, but in leading.
What kills me is that folks say Kucinich too ‘weird’ to be our leader
a great leader is, by definition, unusual.
the most decorated soldier in ww2 was a short little bastard named audie murphy , go dennis screw em out of another five inches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I usually try to substantive as well, so please forgive me:
I am SO FUCKING SICK OF HEARING ABOUT HILLARY!
Sorry. But it's true... like she's a goddamn spice-girl or Paris Hilton or something. How about promoting a female role-model that isn't a weasely lying sack of arrogance or stupidity for once? Just once? You think out of 300 million people the media could find AT LEAST ONE woman to promote that wasn't either a waste of oxygen, or a "triangulating" political pro.
I remember when I was younger, I noticed all the girls being inspired by people like Christa McAuliffe. We all know how that turned out I suppose. But Paris, Coulter, Condolizza, and Hillary? Really, that's the best we have to offer the airwaves?
Lynnianaa Says:
You need to practice a little bit more on your trolling. Overall, I say the attempt was a C-average at best.
Aw, everybody's a critic. I seem to have gotten quite a rise, though. Not bad for a C student.
This wasn't pure trolling, though.
Twas sarcastic, I'll confess, but I'm actually trying to make a real point and not just disingenuously piss people off...though that is quite a bonus :)
In other threads, we've run into the argument that supporting any minor or third party candidate undermines the "real" goal of electing a Democrat, any Democrat, into every office.
The Democrats' unwillingness to stand up to the Republicans has, on this board and in all seriousness, been rationalized on the basis that they "have to" go along with the Republicans or they risk alienating centrists. Independent centrists being so attracted to wishy-washy "lite" republicans, I guess. But that once they have unfettered power, they'll start actually fighting. Because centrists LOVE candidates who say one thing to get elected and then do another. Very popular.
It's also been suggested that voting your conscience and actually lending your support to a candidate that you know cannot win is "throwing your vote away," but piling on the designated front-runner out of party loyalty is not, because winning is everything.
And it's also been argued that unless and until the Democrats have unitary rule, they cannot be expected to stand their ground on any principle and that those of us who expect that and are willing to bolt if it doesn't happen are naive and/or deluded and that we have a moral responsibility to back the Democratic party playbook, because that will ultimately serve our ends...once the Democrats have unopposed authority.
I'm suggesting that this mentality, however well-intended, is the road to tyranny.
It happened to the conservatives. We're fools to believe it can't happen to us.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I almost have people in the other thread convinced that I think the elderly are a threat to national security :)
You know, he's the kind of guy I could have a beer with ! ( do vegans drink beer ?) Kucinich all the way !!!
Every time Kucinich opens his mouth, I become more convinced he is the by far the best choice for President. The only way that can happen is a grass-roots movement where we all make a point of educating the masses about Kucinich and what he represents.
I don't care who tells me he can't win. I am going to vote for the best candidate.
And there is no doubt, the best candidate is Kucinich.
Kucinich 08 - Americas hope.
Doggiebobo @ 30:
Way ahead of you. I will vote Kucinich in the primaries and boycott the vote in November or write him in. Contrary to everything we are told, the Dems other than Kucinich will NOT change anything. If we get the Ghouliani or Romney, we deserve them, because the Dems are cowards and corporate shills just like the Republicans. And if that causes a republican victory, then it will prove that the progressive voters DO make a diffference. When will you realize that THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CENTRIST DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS!!! If you can point any out, I would be anxious to hear them.
Che's Lounge @ 90:
you got it right , time to stop seloling ourselves out !
selling!
Doggiebobo @ 30:
I don't understand. If half the people who say "I'm for Kucinich, but he can't win" would just vote for the guy, the remaining candidates would at least have to pander to progressives as a force. You use your vote to move the party, not ask the party who will win the next election. People can get fired up when someone speaks so hopefully. Just vote for the guy if you believe in him and stop trying to back the corporate favorites.
No, if he won the nomination he'd be playing cards with Robert Kennedy and Paul Wellstone, But risking his life, he's willing to still speak the truth. I dream of an America that would be worthy of such a leader.
After all the damage that has been done to our country and Constitution, if we don't get the right person in office this time around I am afraid that we may not get another chance. Vote for Hillary if you are not concerned with this. If you are concerned, it would be wise to consider supporting Kucinich.
tyree @ 84:
And Murphy was also a great songwriter who worked at one time with the great Jimmy Bryant. Maybe C&L should cover Bryant on a LNMC.
dirk gently @ 82:
Look it up. You are using one of the few examples wherein she didn't vote for what you happen to believe in versus the mountains of times wherein she did. Reality tends to be far more complicated than 'Hillary bad!' and 'Kucinich saviour!' of course.
swarmofkillermonkeys @ 85:
yeah lol like she's a woman lol
who votes for that
Cowards. No one speaks up for Gravel. none of you. Even though Gravel has a hundred times the experience and leadership in this area. The Alskan Pipeline was revolutionary. Getting Big Oil to create the first and greatest Eco-friendly pipeline in oil history. ended GE's nuclear benevolence. Stopped testing it cause he realized the common sense that it created too much in disposable waist.
has a public drafted plan to get us off of gasoline in 5 years
off of coal in 10
oh but everyones completely brainwashed into thinking because he's not the center of attention we shouldnt pay him any mind.
I tell you. You guys really are so middle of the raod its like you dont stand for Anything/??? Just read the line straight from the ticker.
You guys ought to study 1972. You know who lost it for the Dems? You. Nixon did eventually bring the troops home. But he started waging war on the hippies, and that was just fine with the antiwar public. That was the silent majority. So go for the 1% candidates all you want. Stand up and scream, and you know what? My local right-wing radio show loved it! "Look at those weirdoes!" And the news ran, right at the top of every hour: "Hillary heckled." Brilliant move.
Jim H @ 99:
So, instead, those who feel Hillary represents a real wrong turn for progressive politics in this country should...what?
Thank you.
Shawnmeat @ 97:
You mean, who will for her just because she's a woman? Or who would vote for a woman at all?
crazy train @ 88:
And support the enslavement and often (gasp!) consumption of little yeasties?! Outrage! OUTRAGE I TELL YOU SIR!!!11one
I'm gonna call the PETA swat team and have you suffocated in the back of a van with a trash bag, then thrown in the back of a dumpster, like they do with their "rescued" animals!
:)
crazy train @ 88:
Just not with an egg in it.
Don't you all see that we don't want the regular old representatives, that we have had for the past 20 years in "the spot light" to stay "in the spot light".
They have failed for years, long time, the "spotlighters" that is.
Now we have a guy that has been shund out of the spotlight, coming to light.
Shund because of his policies that we embrace, shund by the spotlighters. WHY?
New faces different places.
Id go Kucinich/Edwards, maybe visa-versa, but becuse of principle I doubt K would ever join with one of them, but maybe.
That post is deep, think, I can't.
If anybody thinks there is another candidate out there with more vision; vote for him or her.
If you believe there is a candidate out there who sees YOU in our future; vote for him or her.
If you see a candidate who wants peace more than Dennis Kucinich; vote for him or her.
I will vote for Dennis Kucinich.
Thanks for letting a little Kucinich shine. He sure doesn't get a chance in any of the so called debates. Debates with lightning rounds? Now like our fast food we have fast politics. Both are often indigestible and bad for our health.
grumpyoldman @ 14:
Personally Edwards and Kucinich would be a a formidable team and just what America needs into the ascension 2012.
swarmofkillermonkeys @ 102:
Oops! Damn formatting...
Kucinich speaks for me. He has my vote.
Big media continues to herd the people toward the candidates of big business's choice. Hillary, Obama--looks good to big business--HillaryObama never took a principled stand when we needed them. They are the epitomy of spinelessness. HillaryObama will assume the doggy position for big business every time, just like they always have.
Kucinich, on the other hand, stood up when the vote was stolen by Dubya; he introduced the impeachment of Cheney in the House; he stood up for the environment and against big business by calling for the elimination of NAFTA. This is why big media hates Kucinich--he would take away their cash cow, the American people. This is why bigmediabigbusiness will continue the politics of personal destruction, the "catapult[ing of] the propaganda", the outright lies.
The question is--when will the American people unplug themselves from the boob tube long enough to realize they have been had? I haven't watched TV in years. Don't miss it. Don't miss the mindlessness and disinformation. Anna Nicole who? Is that someone I should know?
Canuknotusa @ 19:
You are one funny S.O.B. You can't have him we NEED him
DaveTheAngryRhodeIslander @ 42:
The more anyone sees of Dennis, the more they like him. That is exactly why the MSM is marginalizing him. We need to get off our asses, and do for Dennis what Ron Paul's people are doing for him!
The more anyone sees of Dennis, the more they like him. That is exactly why the MSM is marginalizing him. We need to get off our asses, and do for Dennis what Ron Paul's people are doing for him!
Right on! Black Friday it is.
JasonS @ 58:
Perhaps it is because they spend more time on researching their positions than on getting make-up tips. I want a President, damnit not a grooming coach.
Fairly sad to watch Kos and Bill Maher try to marginalize Kucinich on Real Time. At least Martin Short defended him. But these gate-crashers are just gate-keepers now.
Kucinich is speaking truth to power. Look who's afraid.
Take part in the massive one-day donation for Dennis on Dec 15 - the day the Bill of Rights took effect in 1791.
http://www.december152007.com
whether you think he is electable or not, just vote for him in the primaries. that is not your vote for president anyways, and if people vote their heart in the primaries, and all of a sudden Dennis has even 30% of the votes, he HAS TO GET ATTENTION and the money and the Oval Office will follow. if you don't do that, vote with your heart, i'd hate be you looking in the mirror as the next Neo-CON goes on destroying the world in your name.
something like that!
What a fantastic vision.................
Here is a MAN that could be one of the Greatest President "FOR THE PEOPLE", for our nation. A BEACON of hope for people; humanity; life; peace; and progress. A leader of IMPECCABLE INTEGRITY.........
It is SAD that IMAGE builders; visual media corporate conglamorate and print media can not RECOGNIZE greatness before their eyes and even if they do they seem to choose blindfold themselves and only open their eyes to immediate profit opportunities failing to see a great vision to better the greater mass the PEOPLE (the consumers; their viewers; the working people and voters) that helped made the MEDIA the power it has up to this point in time. What kind of conglomorate CEO's are they that they have forgotten to humble themselves to show gratitude to those of us people who contributed to make them a success. Instead they try to betray the people with their years of mastering deceptions.
It is purely SMALL minded of those in the CORPORATE elite to think to manuever a market a politician of their choice and forget that there are people who clearly understand this motives. CEO who promote such corrupt politicians for their own financial gains are out of touch. It will backfire like a KARMA where not even billions or trillions of dollars would keep you secure.
YOU HAVE already began to HURT yourself when millions of AMERICANS are surrendering their homes to forclosures. YOU will HURT more when people begin to drive less and ultimately travel less. Our economy is growing in danger by the day. Chaos is permiating all over the world. People are getting restless and angry from all the abuses from the elites. People are becoming more daring as they desensitize themselves from drugs and alcohol. People are becoming increasingly hopeless and careless. They are taking the law in their own hand. You will already begin to HURT your corporation, has your work force begin to protest for fair wage and fair treatment.
And when you have succeeded in pushing people to the edge; they will likely make a choice to refuse to work for a big corporation that does not care for them.
As you succeed in widening the GAP between the rich and poor by doing away with the Middle Class......it will become evident where the BLAME would fall. You will a new culture of rebels that YOU the elite define as terrorist. And that terrorist would be your own people that you have betrayed for your own GREED.
PEOPLE who are not accustomed to be hungry will become beast. Crime against the rich and store would surge to a level that it would no longer be safe to appear to have ANYTHING that resemble as being RICH AND WEALTHY.
Material and a financial WEALTH will become your own CURSE. That is the kind of KARMA that YOU will destine end with if YOU don't change your ways. When YOU knowingly destroy peoples life; environment; animals; nature; OUR ENVIRONMENT...........that is the GREATEST SIN committed to GOD.
You have already committed such sins by persecuting people and A DECENT MAN that has a VISION to sincerely WANT to save our world. WE will not forget how you have unjustly mistreated our only ONE hope to restore DEMOCRACY.......Dennis Kucinich.
Top-tier Candidates are being waged in WALL STREET as products of "FUTURES STOCKS".
See intrade. If you're investing on Hillary which many investors; many of you will loose. The top 1% of the population ( the wealthiest ) will be betting Dennis Kucinich will LOSE. If Kucinich Lose the Wealthiest will win again in the "Futures Stock" game. That is the psychology Wall Street and the Media is playing on public opinions.
governor @ 16:
2 Links....wake up please...if not for yourself, for your brain you'll leave behind...
http://realclimate.org
http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics
The 'Sun' is causing global warming 'idea' was debunked the day 'global warming' was coined...
It's Kucinich's own fault he doesn't get more press.
Think what would happen if he wore a 15-karat zirconium earring.
Or had diamond-sparkles on all his ties.
Or had mink 'FU' sewn on the seat of all his pants, and mooned the audience at every opportunity.
Che's Lounge @ 90:
So what you're essentially saying is that the rest of us in the world deserve another 4 years (at least) of Republican Party warmongering (and importantly unilateralism, because that is the *big* difference between D & R foreign policy, as well as their views on negotiation) because the Democratic candidate might not be 'pure' enough for you?
We get sacrificed on the altar of your principled stubbornness. Nice attitude, world citizen.
Proud American @ 119:
here here, want a decent honest man who cant be bought the kooch is your man! 08 no more corporate whores !
Kucinich is a clown. Sure he probably makes a really good Congressman for his district, which probably laps up all of his bullshit, but the rest of America won't. What is more refreshing? Candidates that lie through their teeth but you know where they reasonably stand from their record? Or a candidate that tells the complete truth about all the totally impossible things he wants to do (get rid of NAFTA, WTO, establish a department of peace, etc.)
If you want a President of the Democratic Party, maybe Kucinich should get the job.
christian @ 116:
mahers is just a sleezy no talent dolt, and his stick he spouts is as worthless as his jokes wich he has to beg his audience to laugh at! ive said it before ill say it again bill mahers is no friend of the democrats!
Kucinich: The only candidate with balls, brains, integrity, and a voting record to be proud of. Ron Paul voted against impeachment, don't be fooled by the hype.
I would like to see Kucinich vs. Ron Paul in the polls and then the NSA assassinate the guy who wis!
Isn't it strange that Kucinich, who the media treats as a "far-out" fringe candidate when they don't ignore him altogether, is the one candidate whose positions on all the major issues, Iraq, health care, international trade, the environment, are those favored by most Americans?
If you agree with him on most issues (which means you are not happy with the "mainstream" candidates), go to his website at: http://www.dennis4president.com/home/
and contribute toward to his campaign fund. And tell your friends about him.
Kucinich sure appears to be the most humanitarian candidate running for president.
You expect responsible and thoughtful journalism? Not going to get it from the MSM.
Jpsy,
Probably some psych expert.
"We get sacrificed on the altar of your principled stubbornness. Nice attitude, world citizen."
Reap what you sow asshole. I didn't create this mess. I've voted for every independent candidate in the primaries since I can remember. Then voted for Dems in the big elections. And what has it gotten us? NAFTA. Corporatized america. Imperialism. All perpetuated by Johnson, Carter and Clinton as much as the republicans. The mainstream Dems offer nothing dfferent. As a matter of fact, they have been even MORE detrimental in some cases (China most favored nation, Iran '79, Iraq sanctions). I vote my conscience through and through. So go vote the party line and see where it gets you. This place is totally fucked unless we institute radical change. But lapdogs like you just keep enabling the status quo. So go back to watching the food channel while your heritage gets stolen from you.
If you allow Kucinich, our constitution and our way of life get mistreated by the Media; by the Democratic party; by corporate America; and by those that have the financial resources to get the neocons get their way..............then YOU allow that to happen to YOURSELF.
How? Any authority; perhaps your boss, the CEO; your political representative; police will think they have the license to treat you as they please. Abuse you, exploit you. cheat you' fire you at-will.
tyree @ 124:
Hells yeah!!! Koooooch!
Thanks for some great laughs in this thread JasonS.. I'm suprised so few people caught on to your sarcasm and genuine support of Kucinich..
I too think it is important that people actually vote for who they agree most with and they feel represent their views the best instead of just picking the media favored candidate since theirs is an underdog with "no chance" to win. That's the kind of thought who will get our beloved closet-republican Hillary voted in.
Che's Lounge @ 132:
Not at all.
Aside from the fact that I was referring to people outside the US (which I am), who don't get a say in US politics despite the fact that we are all affected by it, where do you get off being so rude?
Yes as long as you have big money corporate lobbying in government you are going to continue to have problems, but to say there's no difference at all between the diplomacy-based foreign policy preferred by Democratic administrations to the scorched-earth foreign policy of Reagan/Bush Republicans is being disingenuous in the extreme. You may not see a difference from inside and that's your prerogative, but we sure as hell do!
The point is that while you may yearn for radical change, in this day and age you ain't going to get it unless the media is on your side and your army is better than theirs. In the US that ain't going to happen, and if you keep voting for independent candidates outside of major elections then it's like electoral masturbation - feels good for a bit but leaves you unfulfilled long-term. You need to change the organisation from within, like Howard Dean has started to do with the DNC. Barring a major catastrophe, your current system is too entrenched to change in one fell swoop, and it's the same for us in the UK.
As for your "worse" Democratic Presidents, Johnson (at the military's behest) escalated Vietnam, but he also presided over the largest revolution in civil rights your country ever knew. Carter's administration may have bungled the Iran situation, but the problems were caused in the first place by an unpopular coup d'etat staged by the CIA and MI6 under Eisenhower's administration. Carter was also the first modern President to level with the people about the unsustainability of the Western way of life and was largely hounded from office because the lobbyists could not get their claws into him even before the hostage crisis. Clinton was forever haunted by the perception that he was above his station and to his detriment he tried to appease the Republican-leaning corporatists. But he also pulled off a near-miracle economically when he turned around the Reagan/Bush deficit into a surplus that could have been used for any progressive cause you name. But no, some people were successfully convinced that there was no real difference between Democratic and Republican administrations and so Bush the Younger spent it on his rich friends.
None of these Presidents gleefully banged the war drums like an excited child the way Bush and Cheney do- they only deployed the military when someone convinced them it was necessary. All of them it would appear tried to at least do something for the ordinary American, a character that Bush seems to filter out unless a photo-op is involved.
How you can turn around and say there's no difference when the evidence is right before your eyes, I just don't know.
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