The 'gap' in Republicans' healthcare plans
By Steve Benen Monday Nov 19, 2007 7:20pmRudy Giuliani was treated for prostate cancer. John McCain has been treated for melanoma, the most serious type of skin malignancy. Fred Thompson was diagnosed with lymphoma, a cancer of the immune system.
And as the LA Times’ Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar explained in a good piece today, all three could be denied healthcare insurance under their own healthcare plans.
All three have offered proposals with the stated aim of helping the 47 million people in the U.S. who have no health insurance, including those with preexisting medical conditions. But under the plans all three have put forward, cancer survivors such as themselves could not be sure of getting coverage — especially if they were not already covered by a government or job-related plan and had to seek insurance as individuals.
“Unless it’s in a state that has very strong consumer protections, they would likely be denied coverage,” said economist Paul Fronstin of the Employee Benefit Research Institute, who has reviewed the candidates’ proposals. “People with preexisting conditions would not be able to get coverage or would not be able to afford it.”
It offers a helpful contrast between the downsides of the two parties’ approaches to healthcare. The problem with the Dems’ plans is that they’re expensive. The problem with the Republicans’ policies is that sick people of modest means can’t get health insurance.
The Republican presidential hopefuls seem to realize that their plans leave millions of vulnerable Americans behind, but also realize that the alternative is government regulation — specifically, telling insurers that they can’t exclude people with pre-existing conditions, and can’t price these people out of coverage. Given a choice between a large gap of uninsured and government-imposed safeguards for Americans, the GOP candidates prefer the prior.
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What Health Care Plan?
Check out this health care plan:
Pentagon Demands Wounded Soldier Return Re-enlistment Bonus:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004754.php
Murtha is right.
Despicable.
Rude fact is, the corporate mobocracy wants us to die.
The problem with the Democrat's plan is that, with the exception of Kucinich, it still ends up benefiting the pharmaceutical and insurance companies of this country.
The brain dead American people are so quick to believe the Repub propaganda about the horrors of "socialized medicine." During the 2004 election campaign I was furious as I listened to President Flightsuit call Kerry's plan a threat to the very foundations of our country. Of course, the Chimp-in-chief lied about what Kerry proposed - an expansion of the Government Employees Health Benefits plan. GeeDubya warned about rationed health care and being forced to see a government doctor. What a crock. I have been in the GEHB for over 30 years and I have never experienced rationed care or was forced to see a government doctor. My chief complaint about the program is - surprise - the ever increasing premiums and co-pays.
By the way, has anyone noticed that the health care the Commander Guy receives is by government doctors and usually at government hospitals. If government health care was so horrible why doesn't Chimpy choose to see private doctors.
Wake up Americans and stop believing Republican lies.
It takes a smart man to put forth a proposal that would exclude the smart man himself. Brilliance.
I don't see a downside there:
Democrats: it will cost whatever healthcare costs, and healthcare (like many necessary things) isn't cheap.
Republicans: It's cheaper for the financial elite, about the same or less for the middle class, and the poor can go screw themselves into the ground for all we care. (Or, maybe we'll throw a few scraps to them from taxes paid primarily by the middle class, and a few 'sin taxes' like smoking IF we're feeling generous.)
The Republican/conservative health care 'philosophy' is better known as the 'I'm all right, Jack' philosophy, meaning, if you can't afford comprehensive health insurance, it's because you're a worthless, lazy, irresponsible person, and it's your own fault. I can understand the Republicans not wanting to state this plainly, but I don't see what the Democrats are waiting for. Call it what it is!
Joseph @ 1:
I'm with you on this one.I wasn't aware they were even considering one.
ashton @ 6:
It's amazing how difficult it is to make policy decisions for the average American when you're used to being of the elite class. I swear these guys look at us like numbers on a spread sheet instead of actual humans.
Erroll:
"The problem with the Democrat’s plan is that, with the exception of Kucinich, it still ends up benefiting the pharmaceutical and insurance companies of this country."
Don't fall into the standard conservative Republican trap of saying that business, and profit is evil. Truth is, there is nothing wrong with American companies (pharmaceutical and HMO) making a profit, as long as it's not at the cost of the American public getting screwed in the process.
That's the fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats (when they're at their best, that is). Republicans, from Reagan on down, claim that business is inherently moral, a the free market is a self-regulating machine that just MAGICALLY leads to the common good of the people. Democrats believe that business is inherently AMORAL, and while it should not be stifled by government, some of its activities need to be REGULATED by the people's government if we want it to lead to the common good.
Business is like GASOLINE. If you just pour it out on the street and set it on fire, it's very destructive. But if you confine it inside the pistons of an internal combustion engine, it can drive civilization forward. (Sorry for all the mixed metaphores.)
It drives me crazy. Voters will vote against their best interests because they hate: homosexuals, the poor, minorities, etc. So, because they hate gays or women or whatever they will vote for Guiliani or Thompson and the rest of us will be w/o fair universal health care.
The Dem plans are expensive...premiums, co-pays and deductibles.
The Kucinich plan would have the citizens paying from 2.5% to 5% in payroll tax that would cover everything...Dad, mom, kids, grand parents...
I did the math and my family would save about 4,200 per year and we would all be covered. That actually sounds much cheaper and more cost-effective. If the goal is to GET the healthcare and not save the insurance company from the uncomfortable position of having to pay for something they said they would cover.
The rep's plan...hehehe yeah, about that...
Vote with the Smart Guy for once. Vote Kucinich...oh, and do the math for yourself.
the gap in GOP heathcare? $30,000-$90,000.shit...nowadays it's probably more.
These 3 pigs -- Giuliani, McCain and Thompson -- are actually pretty smart -- smarter than us. We're not reading between the lines. This is the New American Century. There are Americans, and there are AMERICANS. We're the Americans. They're the AMERICANS.
All Americans are equal, but some AMERICANS are more equal than others.
Any healthcare plan they propose is for us, not for them.
Are you ready for socialized healthcare yet? Isn't it about time you were and took to the streets to demand it? Don't let them lie to you and scare you about socialized healthcare. Our education and homeland security is socialized, but as you know, they're changing that little by little without our being aware about it.
Americans have no problems with tax-paid services such as the police and the fire department and even the military being paid for by taxes instead of being privatized, but when it comes to health care, they would rather believe the propaganda put out by the GOP and others who prefer that the pockets of HMOs, insurance companies and drug companies be fully padded rather than taking care of patients. Medicare is already a government-provided "socialized" health service for the elderly, and I have yet to hear of anyone who wants to do away with that.
#16-Guy Fawkes
Very well said. I would also like to add that the U.S. Postal Service is part of that equation. Conservatives and libertarians are always loath to recall that the Preamble to the Constitution mentions "... to provide for the general Welfare..." for the people of this country. Most countries in Europe look with astonishment at the fact the United States does not have a universal health care plan set up to take care for the needs of its citizens.
Before anyone does anything about healthcare, we need to get a grip on why we're such an outlier in terms of cost as percentage of GDP - its 16% - way beyond anyone else. U.S. Government accounts for half of this, and our % of GDP on government related health care is more than some other countries' total health care spending.
We actually have 2 separate health care crises. The first is that 40 million or so are uninsured and most others are underinsured. The second is that our health care is way too expensive. The two problems are not as related as people think. Republicans try to imply that by fixing the cost structure at the margins people will have more insurance and more coverage. Democrats try to imply that by covering all Americans health care will be cheaper percentagewise. Neither party is serious about addressing the core problem.
Think of it this way - the U.S. on average spends 8% of its GDP on healthcare above and beyond the world average. That means that any product we sell to a foreign country has an 8% "healthcare" export duty on it. Thats a heavy load (pun intended).
you guys forget, the right wing will talk about anything else.they'll talk about right to life, immigration,anything other than healthcare. they want it to go away
repub voters think they'll be raptured before getting cancer or in a car crash so they don't think about health care
Pericles @ 10:
i'd say it's been quite some time now since the democrats have advocated for a genuine alternative economic vision. you do remember the DLC-dominated clinton (the first?) years, doncha?
1. we do NOT have a "system" and that is part of the problem! 2.that extra 8% is spent on advertising,administration and assorted paper pushong by the insurance folks and the hospital managements. 3.nobody is happy anymore-even the docs are disgusted! so maybe the time is actually coming when we can create a rational system that has us cooperating to provide care.
Today I read in my local Republican newspaper about Conierge Doctors --- for a fee say $1500 per year, you can have a doctor sit down with you and discuss your health instead of you rattling off your list of concerns as the doctor is heading for the door. This concierge Doctor will even make house calls! But I'm old enough to remember when doctors would make house calls and even stitch up your brother on my living room couch.
This was the norm before HMO's and so-called "managed care."
We really really really need to get private health insurance OUT of the mix. Blue Cross had record breaking profits over this past year. WTF? There should be no profit in health care!!! It should not be a money making business - it should be a HEALTH CARE business. Insurance companies are a HUGE cost. Our system is so fucked up.
There's a Democratic attack ad waiting to made hitting all three of those Republican candidates.
Narrator: "If Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Fred Thompson were one of the 47 million uninsured Americans, how would THEY fare under their own health plan?"
Narrator: "All three candidates would have hard time getting coverage because of their previous struggles with cancer!"
This is the basic concept, I'm sure I could add something a little funnier and a little more gut wrenching with a little sleep.
I had a doozy of an ad for attacking the Bush tax cuts. The average tax cut was $2000, the meadian was $17. Have a room full of middle income talking to each other about their tax refund. Everyone seems to have gotten only $10. Warren Buffett walks into the room and tell everyone what he got back. Presto! The average tax cut is $2000. Its shame Democrats are complete gutless pieces of shit.
I know you mean well Steve, but I really wish that you would take the time to visit the web site below and get the facts on the health care before you write any more post on the issue... please.
This is from the Physicians for a National Health care Plan website. They are an organization of over 14,000 Docs who are publishing the facts:
http://www.pnhp.org/
There is already enough money in the system to have universal health care for every man, woman, and child if you go to a single payer system.
This conclusion was from a very extensive study done by Harvard University and it was also supported by separate independent studies done by the Congressional Budget Office and another one done by the GAO.
Yes... on the front end you would have higher taxes, but on the back end your very expensive premium payments would go away. Now those insurance premium payments have skyrocketed in the last six years and they are projected to double in the next ten years!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/business/27insure.html?_r=1&n=Top/Refe...
One last point... this is not socialized medicine! A single payer system is socialized Health insurance.
Socialized medicine is what is practiced at the VA hospitals where the Docs work for the government. In a single payer system the Docs work for themselves and set their own prices for their services that are established by physician peer review boards. You're free to choose your Doc and it operates basically the same way medicare does.
This is how the Canadian system works and it works well despite all the propaganda thrown out by the right wingers and the insurance companies.
There are two candidates who advocate a single payer health care system... Dennis Kucinich, who wrote HR 676 and has introduced it into congress and Jonathan Edwards.
Kucinich's plan calls for a move to a single payer system immediately and Edwards devised a plan to move the country over time.
You can read more here:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020907E.shtml
Don't middle class Republicans get sick about the same rate as Democrats? Don't they have their own self-interest to consider? Or are they blind to self-interest when it comes to health?
bob h @ 27:
As some of the above commenters have pointed out, the Republican marketing experts have done a fantastic job of using anger points, cultural prejudices, and simple BRAND LOYALTY to get middle class and poor Republicans to vote against their own self interests. Basically, becuase most people disagree with the conservative philosophy of government doing nothing, and side with the liberal philosophy that government SHOULD do some constructive and useful things in a modern society, the Republicans have had to shift the debate from policy issues to cultural issues, personality issues, and cultural prejudices. I'm amazed and saddened by how well they've succeeded. Poor and middle class Republicans are voting against government policies that serve their own interests because the people who are advocating them drink LATTE instead of MAXWELHOUSE and drive VOLVOS instead of PICKUPS. It's pretty sad to think that about 25% of the American public would rather lose their house to hospital bills (and force others to do the same) because they refuse to be seen siding with people who drink wine instead of beer.
Sharkbabe @ 3:
They don't want you all to die. They're playing the numbers. They know that enough of you will live long enough to buy an SUV, eat at McDonalds 400 or 500 times and pay off the debt from all the gadgets and shit that they sell you. Undoubtably, some of you will die, but that's a rish that they're willing to take.
taochiapet @ 21:
Well, they don't have to call it an 'alternative' economic vision. The truth is that it's a reality based economic vision, instead of the voo-doo Republican FAITH BASED economic vision.
Pericles @ 10:
The fundamental flaw in your logic is that the 'business' of HMO's and insurance companies is not the delivery of health care. It is the delivery of profits to shareholders. One of the easiest and most 'efficient' ways to do this is by denying claims. This inherent conflict of interest is glaringly obvious to every industrialized nation in the world but us, NONE of whom have health care systems that involve private insurance companies in the delivery of basic care, and all of whom achieve better outcomes for less money.
So who's the fool, all of them, or us?
The 'Gaps' in all republican plans merely reflect the inordinate number and immense distances of the gaps in their synapses.
We need to take away the free health care our "leaders" enjoy at our expense.
They should have no better health care than the lowest wage earners.
Once they have had a dose of reality they might change their tune.
The problem with the Dems’ plans is that they’re expensive.
no, that's not the problem with them. universal health would be less expensive than the current system. there are two problems with "the dems" plans:
1) except for kucinich's plan, none of the dems address the real, actual, truthful crisis. we aren't in a coverage crisis, we are in a care crisis. even insured families are on the brink. the simple fact is that health care should not be a for-profit enterprise. it is wrong and unsustainable, assuming a goal of providing a reasonable, humane level of care to everyone.
2) the plans seem expensive because of the twists of politically acceptable language. as atrios has pointed out, it makes no sense to force people to pay insurance companies for health insurance that is mandated by the government. what is the point of the middleman? the answer is simple: if the government is paid directly, it is an evil unspeakable tax. and americans have been fooled into thinking it better to spend $1,000 to avoid paying $100 in taxes.
Guy Fawkes @ 16:
except, of course, for ron paul.
The gap in republican is between their ears. Here's a cartoon blog that really nails them. http://jecartoons.blogspot.com/
We need to quit beating about the bush and pass medicare for everyone.... I think Edwards has it right, the next president should cancel the Congress' medical coverage unless and until fair and comprehensive legislation is passed.
As pious and self-righteous as these Republican "leaders" think themselves to be, they have nonetheless each reserved their own private rotesserie spits in Hell. Enjoy the party while it lasts, guys, go ahead and fuck over the sick and needy. You can take complete confidence that your reservations are firm and won't be cancelled.
Rasputin @ 26:
thanks Ras....
So, are you saying that if a Reichpublican wins that it'll be another cancer on the Presidency?
Who coulda guessed that?
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