Way to go Rachel! Kick their asses!!

Lou "No Interviewing Skills" Dobbs. So who is he blowing to get and keep that job?

Jesse's wrong, politicians should not pander to AA or any other race, they need to confront their own problems.......

I just don't like jesse thinking he speaks for all blacks.
He is just like rush to the racist whites.
I think we as a country need someone to speak up for all of us this country has never been perfect but in the terms of where we could go we are the closet thing.Stop making everything about race and muslims lets make it about rebuilding this empire so we all can have better lives.

Jesse Jackson published an op-ed in the Chicago Sun-Times blasting the Democratic presidential candidates–with the exception of John Edwards...

Every debate Dennis Kucinich says that the current economic policies funnel money upward to the wealthy elite. His goal is to end the elitist tax, trade and foreign policy that makes the rich richer and everyone else poorer. Does this not also include African Americans?

African Americans don't care about healthcare, the economy, Iraq, Iran, immigration, etc?

Has anybody noticed how often Rachel Maddow IS the voice of reason on all these shows. She needs her own show. It would be great if she followed KO on MSNBC or REPLACED that Beck guy on CNN. Go Dr. Maddow!

Rachel Maddow continues to prove that she is the "pro" out of all the talking heads on any show that she appears. I'm so glad to see her as a leading voice of the progressive movement. She always stands her ground, manages to keep everyone in check and in the end sounds like the voice of reason out of everyone on the panel

ting

Recent newspaper reports in the Dallas Morning Nudes has demonstrated that UT Southwestern Hospital has a list of the wealthiest Dallasites who are given much better service than the average guy.

If Jessie is truly the mouthpiece for the black community...they're in worse shape than any of us could imagine.

Jackson is a sad joke. A pathetic, publicity whore who only swings into action when the camera lights are on.

Who says blacks must blindly line up behind a Dem? Has it worked out yet? I still see the same problems.

I don't think the pols listen to any of us or give a good damn, no matter our skin color.

We all told them to end the war, but few if any listened. That's one example.

That arrogant fat old time racist cocksucker in the middle should understand; even if I don't always agree with Jesse, and I know like many political figures he's manipulative, I'll never allow fools like him to influence my thinking.

White americans do not have permission to approve or select leaders or spokesmen/women for black americans. Your opinion of Jesse Jackson is irrelevant to us.
Focus on your leaders-George Bush, anyone? You elected him twice, so much for your judgement of character.

capnmike @ 14:

People who want "Equality" should stop insisting on receiving special treatment.

Sometimes it takes special treatment to GET equality. Whites don't get special treatment? Why is it that when Jessie speaks he represents all blacks?

You fucking fake ass liberals crack me up. O.J. is the first man in U.S. history to get away with murder, Barry Bonds invented steriods, and anything Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton says is all wrong. When you really get down to it, there's no difference between Republican or Democrat.

adama7 @ 27:

White americans do not have permission to approve or select leaders or spokesmen/women for black americans. Your opinion of Jesse Jackson is irrelevant to us.
Focus on your leaders-George Bush, anyone? You elected him twice, so much for your judgement of character.

While I agree whites have no right to approve of or select spokespeople for AA's...we honkeys did NOT ALL vote for that schmuck. And don't forget about the minority voter intimidation in Florida in 2000. All those ballots that were "lost"...etc. etc. etc.
These last 2 "elections" were engineered to end in BushCo's favor. We're all gonna suffer if this administration follows through with it's plans. Anyone that ain't pro-life, anti science, anti-intellectual, straight, (insert irony here) and hardcore fundamentalist Xtian, and dare I say it, WHITE, is gonna be hatin life. These Neo-Con republicans are truly fascist in nature, and that does not bode well for ANYONE who opposes them if they gain control of this country! We still have a chance to save country, change it for the better. Everyone who see what's goin on, and doesn't like it, MUST get together, figuratively AND most importantly, literally. Unite or fall under the jackbooted heel of fascism.

When you blast anyone on the base of RACE then you yourself is blasting all RACES and encouraging special interest for a particular race IS in itself racism. When your concern is a special preferrencial treatment based on race that is encourging racism. When you STOP using racism as an ALL inclusive argument then that becomes a human issue and NOT a racism issue.

People should put an end to racism by not using IT as an excuse but rather argue the particular issue or mistreatment of "people" at hand. Otherwise favoring justice or seemingly accusing injustices on the base of race IS racism......in itself.

The Truth Hurts @ 21:

If Jessie is truly the mouthpiece for the black community...they're in worse shape than any of us could imagine.

Jackson is a sad joke. A pathetic, publicity whore who only swings into action when the camera lights are on.

Who says blacks must blindly line up behind a Dem? Has it worked out yet? I still see the same problems.

Jackson has been swift-boated 100 times more than John Kerry and Al Gore. You should actually do some research on the man before calling him a "sad joke." He's done, and tried to do, more than 99% of public figures.

Why does he deserve your derision?

I don't mean to single out Mr./Ms. Truth Hurts. I'm really pissed off at Peter Boyles, and Lou Dobbs for giving him a microphone. Who does Boyles think he is to criticize Jackson? What has Boyles done (besides run his mouth)? Boyles is a second-rate Malkin wannabe. Why do these idiots keep getting microphones?

Rachel Maddow for Secretary of State please!

so this thread has become another opportunity to dismiss anything black-related as irrelevant or divisive.
how telling of the liberals today, that they are no better than the liberals of the sixties.
no wonder there can be no liberal consensus.
liberals are patheticly unable to address the core issues of what can be done to fix or improve this country.
the proof is right here in this thread.

CoIntelPRo @ 41:

so this thread has become another opportunity to dismiss anything black-related as irrelevant or divisive.
how telling of the liberals today, that they are no better than the liberals of the sixties.
no wonder there can be no liberal consensus.
liberals are patheticly unable to address the core issues of what can be done to fix or improve this country.
the proof is right here in this thread.

Why don't you enlighten us with your grand solution then tough guy?

mister mix @ 34:
most of the comments of this thread are as ignorant as Peter Boyles statment which tells me that they missed the whole point of this thread. some of you even go on to say that Dave Chappelle is more relevant to black people than Jesse Jackson? so black leader have to entertain and make jokes for white people to listen to them? btw, even dave chappelle thought his work was detrimental to black people. why do you think he gave up his $50,000,000 show? i think Jesse Jackson is very relevant to black people because he helps bring attention to the issues that mainstream media don't. this you call attention whoring. but most of you wouldn't even know about issues like the jena 6 if it weren't for jesse jackson and al sharpton bringing the mainstream media's attention to it. there is a problem in american that white people (even on this thread) want to ignore. RACISM. joking about it doesn't get it solved and attacking jesse jackson doesn't get it solved. keep looking to comedians while nothing gets done and it will always be here.

IMO Dave Chappelle has displayed far more current, incisive and critical commentary on racism than either Sharpton or Jackson in a larger cultural context. You can dismiss Chappell as a mere "comedian" but at least his comedy is intentional--not the same old parochial and opportunistic bufoonery of Sharptn/Jackson.

Bud @ 43:

you have a point to make?

When I hear "liberals" speaking of how the stood up to the southern racists in the 60's it always makes me laugh at the revisionism. Why are things so bad racially today? Even my most "liberal" friends make some of the most ignorant and insensitive remarks in my presence. Man, we have a long way to go.

dave @ 45:

IMO Dave Chappelle has displayed far more current, incisive and critical commentary on racism than either Sharpton or Jackson in a larger cultural context. You can dismiss Chappell as a mere "comedian" but at least his comedy is intentional--not the same old parochial and opportunistic bufoonery of Sharptn/Jackson.

you obviously missed the whole point where even dave chappelle thought his comedy was detrimental. that's why he quit his own show. not my words. it's dave's words expressed in various interviews including the Inside Actors Studio. YOU are exactly the reason why i wrote my previous comments. So tell me since, what marches or issues have dave chappelle help bring to the spotlight? Has dave brought about issues concerning the jena 6 or police shootings in NY? has daves efforts ever brought about about any political changes such as the civil rights bill? cause all of those things and more can be attributed to jesse jackson. but thanks for thinking dave chappelle is a good leader for african americans. i'm sure his "n____" jokes are exactly what you think black people need to improve their lives. you criticize real leaders and do nothing to improve racist condition yourself. you are what some groups would call an ENABLER and others would call an APOLOGIST.

look black America needs a new voice, wait minority America (hispanics, gays, blacks, etc.) needs a new voice to speak for them. Their issues are all the same, and its not racism, its economic racism that is devistating all minorites as a whole. Jessie, maxine waters, and others like her are just poverty pimps plain and simple. Where is Dr. King when we need him ....

Left&Left @ 31:

You fucking fake ass liberals crack me up. O.J. is the first man in U.S. history to get away with murder, Barry Bonds invented steriods, and anything Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton says is all wrong. When you really get down to it, there's no difference between Republican or Democrat.

Good god man are you really that stupid? First off, O.J was not the first man to get away with murder. Barry Bonds did not invent steriods. You fucking wingnuts come on these sites and will just say anything that comes into your pea brain. Take your racist shit to one of the right wingnut blogs you troll.

O Man @ 53:

look black America needs a new voice, wait minority America (hispanics, gays, blacks, etc.) needs a new voice to speak for them. Their issues are all the same, and its not racism, its economic racism that is devistating all minorites as a whole. Jessie, maxine waters, and others like her are just poverty pimps plain and simple. Where is Dr. King when we need him ....

Jesse Jackson worked side by side with Dr. King. His philosophies and practices and preachings are the same. so it's pretty obvious that if Dr. King were here you would say the same thing about him. you claim to want someone new but ask for someone who has been dead for near half a century. then you criticize a leader who is doing the exact same thing that he did? what would Dr. King have done differently? he would have gone on marches, gave speeches, been on tv where ever there where instances of racism. you would have called him a poverty pimp as well. so check yourself before criticizing others. also, if you can do better than do so, keyboard warrior.

DiamondMC @ 55:

Left&Left @ 31:

You fucking fake ass liberals crack me up. O.J. is the first man in U.S. history to get away with murder, Barry Bonds invented steriods, and anything Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton says is all wrong. When you really get down to it, there's no difference between Republican or Democrat.

Good god man are you really that stupid? First off, O.J was not the first man to get away with murder. Barry Bonds did not invent steriods. You fucking wingnuts come on these sites and will just say anything that comes into your pea brain. Take your racist shit to one of the right wingnut blogs you troll.

wow, diamondC i think it was obvious that he was being sarcastic with those statements.
maybe you should think a little bit before calling someone stupid.

CoIntelPRo @ 41:

so this thread has become another opportunity to dismiss anything black-related as irrelevant or divisive.
how telling of the liberals today, that they are no better than the liberals of the sixties.
no wonder there can be no liberal consensus.
liberals are patheticly unable to address the core issues of what can be done to fix or improve this country.
the proof is right here in this thread.

Way to seize on the 10% of comments that always appear when race comes up.

Again, I've got to ask, why does Jesse Jackson deserve your derision?

O Man @ 62:

Jesse hasn't done anything to help except line his pockets with money ...

Link? Evidence?

I meant Stephen Colbert, for some silly reason I get the spelling of his last name criss-crossed with (m)ann coulter.

miss_kitty @ 3:

Lou "No Interviewing Skills" Dobbs. So who is he blowing to get and keep that job?

That is an interesting story. In fact, CNN is blowing him.

He was fired once from his financial program, and replaced by Stuart Varney and Willow Bay.

The program failed eventually, and CNN begged Dobbs to come back. Which he did, and he has been untouchable ever since.

mister mix @ 51:

dave @ 45:

IMO Dave Chappelle has displayed far more current, incisive and critical commentary on racism than either Sharpton or Jackson in a larger cultural context. You can dismiss Chappell as a mere "comedian" but at least his comedy is intentional--not the same old parochial and opportunistic bufoonery of Sharptn/Jackson.

you obviously missed the whole point where even dave chappelle thought his comedy was detrimental. that's why he quit his own show. not my words. it's dave's words expressed in various interviews including the Inside Actors Studio. YOU are exactly the reason why i wrote my previous comments. So tell me since, what marches or issues have dave chappelle help bring to the spotlight? Has dave brought about issues concerning the jena 6 or police shootings in NY? has daves efforts ever brought about about any political changes such as the civil rights bill? cause all of those things and more can be attributed to jesse jackson. but thanks for thinking dave chappelle is a good leader for african americans. i'm sure his "n____" jokes are exactly what you think black people need to improve their lives. you criticize real leaders and do nothing to improve racist condition yourself. you are what some groups would call an ENABLER and others would call an APOLOGIST.

Look, a crew member laughing at the minstrel sketch (that Dave helped write, Dave approved, and Dave acted out!) is what sent him over the edge. But if you really look at what he says it was an ongoing fight with the suits in the network that just wore him out. The suits really are soul-less assholes (as we can see from the writers' strike), and he resented them making him dance for their own profit.

Was he crazy? "No, not exactly," he says. "I wasn't crazy, but it's incredibly stressful. And I felt like in a lot of instances I was deliberately being put through stress because, when you're a guy that generates money, people have a vested interest in controlling you. And I feel like the people that were trying to control me were putting me through stressful situations."

Its wasn't so much that what he started out doing was wrong, but that he felt show business was changing him, whoring him. Naive to think this wouldn't happen, really. So he just took the money he'd already made and got the hell out. I don't blame the guy. But don't read too much into a personal crisis of his; we all have one eventually.

Dave explains that when Chappelle's Show first started, he had creative control. Money was never an issue, Dave says, because the show did not appear to be lucrative. "It wasn't like Comedy Central was a hot place to be when I showed up there," Dave says.

Dave says his troubles began in the middle of the first season, during a contract renegotiation. "Through a series of events and a little pressure, I ended up settling for way less than what I wanted. Then in season two, the DVD is released and it sets all these incredible records. Now suddenly this is a bigger moneymaker than they thought. It's already making money and it's a whole new revenue stream. And [now], my contract's up."

[...]

"Here's a scenario that I could come back to the show—I can't believe I'm saying this—but this is what I want to do," he says. "I do want to do my show again provided, one, I can make the proper work environment. But more importantly, I want to give. … I don't want the money. I don't want the drama. I just want to do my show. I want to have fun again."

Quotes from Oprah's interview. By the way, the word you are looking for is "nigger", not "en-word" or "N__". No point in being cutsie about it, we are all adults here (or can at least pretend).

FWIW, of course people like Dave and Chris Rock have interesting commentary on race. To be that good of a comedian you HAVE to be very intelligent, very insightful. But ultimately you are an entertainer, not a leader (that's where Dave ran into rocky ground). If you aren't OK with that then you have a problem...

tyne @ 66:

capnmike @ 14:

People who want "Equality" should stop insisting on receiving special treatment.

From Jesse Jackson's op-ed:
"African Americans have, on average, about half of the good things that whites have, and double the bad things. We have about half the average household income and less than half the household wealth. On the other hand, we're suffering twice the level of unemployment and twice the level of infant mortality (widely accepted as a measure of general health).

African Americans are brutalized by a system of criminal injustice. Young African Americans are more likely to be stopped, more likely to be searched if stopped, more likely to be arrested if searched, more likely to be charged if arrested, more likely to be sentenced to prison if charged, less likely to get early parole if imprisoned. Every study confirms that the discrimination is systemic and ruinous. And yet no candidate speaks to this central reality."

African Americans are already receiving "special treatment" that is detrimental. The stats are all there. What is being asked is what can be done to make things equal so that it is no longer statistically better to be White in America. The Democratic party should not take the AA vote for granted, expecting them to tow the party line while not addressing the issues of that constituency.

How much of this is due to class issues and not race? The richer you are the more you can get away with. And although not all black teenagers and young adults are necessarily into the whole rap/hiphop scene, and many whites kids are into it, doesn't the gangsta culture mitigate against them? I'm referring to the saggy jeans and the 'tude, as well as the new mantra, "Don't snitch." Rapper celebrities seem to use conviction records as credibility for street cred.

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 52:

your arguments tactics kind of remind me of something John Stossel would use. you take a few facts that actually don't back up your statements and act as if they do.
1) 11% african american vote isn't support for Bush even if it's 2% higher than previous election. bush didn't win from the 11% african american vote. That means that 89% voted against him. do you think if 89% of white people had voted against bush that he would have won? the majority of white voters voted for bush (at least that was what was registered and counted).
2) if there are no "mystical" unified white leaders then please tell that to the president the senate and the supreme court, and most of the house of representatives who have either been exclusively white or overwhelmingly majority white.
3) you don't have to say that you are a white leader who speaks to only concerns for white people to do so. the reality is that there are issues of racism in this country that white people don't have to deal with cause they are the benefactors of the same issues that oppress black people and other people of color. a good example of white leadership that speaks to white people is the issue of immigration. white politicians directly appeal to the racism of white people by demonizing poor mexicans who sneak across the border. of course they just say this is a "immigration" issue and a security issue but you never hear the same people concerned about the Canadian border which is much larger and more porous.
in conclusion you don't help issues by ignoring the issues. common simplistic positions of "we are one" type of reasoning don't help address the real RACIAL inequalities in this country. not just economic issues. the first and only black senator came into office in 2005. that's a racial issue not an economic issue. there's currently NO native american, asian american, and only 3 hispanic american senators. all of these are racial issues not economic issues or any thing else that demonstrates that "we are one" type of reasoning.

So what exactly is there to do?? Sure i know u gotta reduce crime in blakc neughborhoods.

but havent the gov't given enough to african americans? They can have a high school education, get financial aid to college. I think they got the same oppertuities that poor asians, poor whites, poor mexicans got. Whats the big problem for black communities? I tend to see african americans hang out on the streets and chillin'. They dont seem to want to go to school. I donno why... but they're content with what they can get by.

tyne @ 66:

capnmike @ 14:

People who want "Equality" should stop insisting on receiving special treatment.

From Jesse Jackson's op-ed:
"African Americans have, on average, about half of the good things that whites have, and double the bad things. We have about half the average household income and less than half the household wealth. On the other hand, we're suffering twice the level of unemployment and twice the level of infant mortality (widely accepted as a measure of general health).

African Americans are brutalized by a system of criminal injustice. Young African Americans are more likely to be stopped, more likely to be searched if stopped, more likely to be arrested if searched, more likely to be charged if arrested, more likely to be sentenced to prison if charged, less likely to get early parole if imprisoned. Every study confirms that the discrimination is systemic and ruinous. And yet no candidate speaks to this central reality."

African Americans are already receiving "special treatment" that is detrimental. The stats are all there. What is being asked is what can be done to make things equal so that it is no longer statistically better to be White in America. The Democratic party should not take the AA vote for granted, expecting them to tow the party line while not addressing the issues of that constituency.

well said. how about you are the first one on this thread to actually read and post Jesse's comments. most of the people on here just want to attack him without actually even bothering to read/listen to what he is saying.

mister mix @ 54:

Unsean @ 50:

WHATEVER @ 44:

And btw, why is it pandering when appealing to the interests of peoples of color, yet when appealing to white people it's just...politics.

well, said.

btw, it's really Native American since they weren't Indians either. India is in the middle east. but other than that i agree with everything you said an couldn't put it any better.

Good point, though I wonder if that even is the case. Keep in in mind that Native peoples aren't monolithic. There were many tribes, and I suspect that they may have different names for themselves as human beings, beyond tribal names.

I suspect, in the case of Native peoples, that we may have another example of others defining them for them because I have not heard any Native peoples speak about the subject (though I have on television seen them use the term).

Though many tribes may have one name for themselves, but–even if translated–I suspect that it would probably not translate to Native people(s).

Doing a bit of theorizing at the moment, though it does seem logical based upon the information at hand.

mister mix @ 51:

dave @ 45:

IMO Dave Chappelle has displayed far more current, incisive and critical commentary on racism than either Sharpton or Jackson in a larger cultural context. You can dismiss Chappell as a mere "comedian" but at least his comedy is intentional--not the same old parochial and opportunistic bufoonery of Sharptn/Jackson.

you obviously missed the whole point where even dave chappelle thought his comedy was detrimental. that's why he quit his own show. not my words. it's dave's words expressed in various interviews including the Inside Actors Studio. YOU are exactly the reason why i wrote my previous comments. So tell me since, what marches or issues have dave chappelle help bring to the spotlight? Has dave brought about issues concerning the jena 6 or police shootings in NY? has daves efforts ever brought about about any political changes such as the civil rights bill? cause all of those things and more can be attributed to jesse jackson. but thanks for thinking dave chappelle is a good leader for african americans. i'm sure his "n____" jokes are exactly what you think black people need to improve their lives. you criticize real leaders and do nothing to improve racist condition yourself. you are what some groups would call an ENABLER and others would call an APOLOGIST.

Disregarding your ad hominem assumptions, D. Chappelle's material operates within a strata of cultural/racial consciousness that necessitates a certain disscociation, hence it's role as hyperbolic comedy. Regardless of his opinion of his own work--it is relevant in terms of rendering in harsh vividness the grotesquerie of racism and its peripheral issues. I don't see Chappelle as a messianic leader addressing african american issues--i do however believe his work was an unblinking and no holds barred commentary on racial issues--despite his recanting. So of course some are only going to laugh insipidly at the n_____ jokes and some will appreciate his work on a more profound level--which i do believe he intended--even though, as you mention, he believes he failed.

Unsean @ 69:

The Truth Hurts @ 21:

If Jessie is truly the mouthpiece for the black community...they're in worse shape than any of us could imagine.

Jackson is a sad joke. A pathetic, publicity whore who only swings into action when the camera lights are on.

Who says blacks must blindly line up behind a Dem? Has it worked out yet? I still see the same problems.

You intend irony with the tag, right? Because as far as I can tell truth is what you seem most to lack. BS, no. Truth, yes.

In any case, any evidence for your opinion of Rev. Jackson? You state a lot of, let's be honest here, crap with nothing other than a lot of hot air to support it.

If there's any criticism that can be leveled at Rev. Jackson I suspect it's that he grew a bit too accustomed to the limelight and the pursuit of power and all its trappings, but that's a human error.

The man has done plenty of good though, and if you haven't been crushed by that massive chip on your shoulder you could see that.

You're right. Jessie is a wonderful, selfless leader. A true beacon of goodness.
How could I...and millions of others...be so wrong about this gentleman and scholar?

ysbaddaden @ 70:

tyne @ 66:

capnmike @ 14:

People who want "Equality" should stop insisting on receiving special treatment.

From Jesse Jackson's op-ed:
"African Americans have, on average, about half of the good things that whites have, and double the bad things. We have about half the average household income and less than half the household wealth. On the other hand, we're suffering twice the level of unemployment and twice the level of infant mortality (widely accepted as a measure of general health).

African Americans are brutalized by a system of criminal injustice. Young African Americans are more likely to be stopped, more likely to be searched if stopped, more likely to be arrested if searched, more likely to be charged if arrested, more likely to be sentenced to prison if charged, less likely to get early parole if imprisoned. Every study confirms that the discrimination is systemic and ruinous. And yet no candidate speaks to this central reality."

African Americans are already receiving "special treatment" that is detrimental. The stats are all there. What is being asked is what can be done to make things equal so that it is no longer statistically better to be White in America. The Democratic party should not take the AA vote for granted, expecting them to tow the party line while not addressing the issues of that constituency.

How much of this is due to class issues and not race? The richer you are the more you can get away with. And although not all black teenagers and young adults are necessarily into the whole rap/hiphop scene, and many whites kids are into it, doesn't the gangsta culture mitigate against them? I'm referring to the saggy jeans and the 'tude, as well as the new mantra, "Don't snitch." Rapper celebrities seem to use conviction records as credibility for street cred.

I think there was a study that showed that if you had identical resumes with only the name differing the ethnic name the seemed more "African American" was less likely to get called in for a job. I also recall a study that showed it was easier for a Caucasian ex con to get low wage work than an African American with no record. Another study showed that AA middle class families children slipped back into poverty at a higher rate. This is NOT just about class. The new mantra of class trumps race when the data are suggesting otherwise doesn't hold water. Class plays a large roll in America true, but race is still a large factor and by pretending it isn't we further prolong the problem. I also think the Rap/HipHop claim is another smokescreen that obscures the real issues at hand in many ways it is not the cause but a symptom ( meaning the commercial HipHop shown in the main stream media) .

Ron Paul@80 You poor "little" man. Next time you cry to your girlfriend about your baby penis, tell her I said hi.

perhaps it wold be a better discussion talking about the issues in black america

I am going to be the Mahatma Gandhi of the Indians. If that sounds ridiculous to you, so does more than half of the messages here.

Jackson has done a lot of good for the community years ago, but there came a time when he turned and started politicizing everything. I do not know if that happened when he first ran for President or later. He is definitely not the same man he was when he fought for civil rights beside Dr. King.

Al and Jackson has done disservice by jumping into the race issue even when there was none.

My 2 cents. Thanks.

The Truth Hurts @ 86:

So where is your mountain of evidence??? I'd love to see all your proof that Jessie is something more than a worthless publicity whore.

where is your mountain of evidence that shows that he is. you act like Jessie Jackson gets a paycheck for marching in Jena, LA or even writing the article in the Sun-Times which is what this is suppose to be about. it's not about your hatred for a man that you don't even know and obviously don't know anything about. seems you are the one that's whoring for publicity with your troll-like statements.

mister mix @ 72:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 52:

your arguments tactics kind of remind me of something John Stossel would use. you take a few facts that actually don't back up your statements and act as if they do.

The facts stand on their own, whatever you would call me.

1. You don't find it interesting that more black voters voted for Bush in 2004 than in 2000? Or you don't understand how that is significant to people blabbing on this thread about "hey, don't look at me, just blame white people for Bush"? (Not to mention the endorsements he received from black "leaders" in 2000.)

2. They aren't spokespeople for a 'white community', they are elected officials. What national office is Jesse Jackson elected for? None. He is supposedly a 'spokesperson' that was elected by no one. He is a spokesperson for the black community because the mainstream media says so.

3. "white politicians directly appeal to the racism of white people by demonizing poor mexicans who sneak across the border." All white politicians? All whites? Generalize much? (You know there was a word for generalizing about race... hmm, what was that word...)

You mean immigration can't be a security issue? Wow. Might want to tell the Saudis that pulled off a pretty influential terrorist op in New York. Maybe you heard about that? The issue can be used as a wedge to propagate fear and xenophobia, sure, but then so can ANY emotional issue. Even a neocon could accidentally tell the truth once (in theory).

Of course, race is still an issue -- I said as much in my post. But it is not longer THE issue in the minds of those polled in the studies. You can be upset by that, but I don't think that will change the new self-perception of these people.

"the first and only black senator came into office in 2005. that's a racial issue not an economic issue. there's currently NO native american, asian american, and only 3 hispanic american senators. all of these are racial issues not economic issues or any thing else"
I completely disagree. It sure as hell IS an economic issue. Whether you approach this from needing a critical mass of qualified candidates (money), or just the insane amount of cash to install a candidate these days period.

Looking at the Democratic presidential field, however, you'd have to be willfully ignorant not to see a difference with the fields 10 or 20 years ago. On the flip side of your "senate quota" argument, you can look at Clarence Thomas to see that just because you are a black person that achieves one of the top 3 positions of power (equal to the vice president at least), that doesn't necessarily mean you will be good for other black Americans! What helps address "real racial inequalities" is to understand the root causes that are addressable, and then address them. Economic mobility. Access to quality education.

Blame is a fools game. And as pointed out, these problems are being shared by greater number of people in America now, not just blacks. Fascist oppression and corporate greed are indeed colorblind.

mister mix @ 92:

The Truth Hurts @ 86:

So where is your mountain of evidence??? I'd love to see all your proof that Jessie is something more than a worthless publicity whore.

where is your mountain of evidence that shows that he is. you act like Jessie Jackson gets a paycheck for marching in Jena, LA or even writing the article in the Sun-Times which is what this is suppose to be about. it's not about your hatred for a man that you don't even know and obviously don't know anything about. seems you are the one that's whoring for publicity with your troll-like statements.

Just as I suspected. You have zero to back up your weak, blind defense of Jessie Jackson. Hope you didn't hurt yourself looking for evidence of Jessie's many good deeds. You're simply a small minded moron looking for an argument.

Samson@92 I didn't bother with the Democrat/Republican comment because anyone with half a brain knows that party affliliation does not determine a persons racial attitudes. This thread is proving my argument.

Lou Dobbs and Peter What's His Name have a problem with Jesse Jackson because he is "uppity".They don't like "uppity" African Americans that dare speak up and speak out.

Why can't Joe Madison have a TV Talk Show?

Unsean @ 102:

The Truth Hurts @ 100:

Unsean @ 91:

The Truth Hurts @ 81:

Notice how those that tend to talk out of their arse either attack, resort to sarcasm, or deflect when they are called on it?

In your case you're resorting to sarcasm. Again, if you know of something terrible Rev. Jackson has done, please let the rest of the class know.

Because you'll notice that I have never said that he was perfect, nor flawless (then again, who is); only that you seem to have a serious problem with the man, yet you haven't mentioned one thing that he has actually done to make you feel that way (even I can name a few things that he has done that I don't think too much of, and I don't feel the way you do about him).

In short, if you have something to offer to the debate, people will listen to you. If you don't, and are here to only spread misinformation and waste people's time, they'll call you on that too.

Personally, I don't give two shits about Jessie Jackson. He doesn't speak for me or represent me. I couldn't care less what he does..or who he does it with. If you draw inspiration from what he says, good for you. However, I'd suggest finding a better role model.

And yet here you are talking about him. I suspect you care more that you're letting on.

God, the posters on this site are exhausting. If you dare to step out of the "liberal line", you're instantly labeled a troll...or worse.

Fine. All black people are perfect. Jessie Jackson is perfect. All other minorities are perfect. All white people are evil.

Does that about cover it?

Unsean @ 98:

"Blame is a fools game." You write, yet you spend at least three paragraphs attempting to undermine (I would write 'attack' but you attempt to cover it with civility and length of word) the perspective of peoples of color (African-Americans in this particular case).

Unless you are one, how could you possibly know what's a racial issue and what isn't to the African-American community?

Are there any other groups that you speak for while we're at it? Just want to make sure I vet my words with our appointed representative.

Why don't you show me these 'attacks' and explain why you feel this way instead of just throwing unfounded accusations? I won't apologize for working hard to learn English, if that is your intended insult.

You haven't earned the privilege to know who I am, how old I am, what color my skin, or where my parents were born quite frankly. Why don't you consider my argument on its merit, instead of demanding to know my race before deciding on whether my words contain truth?

And yet more empty sarcasm. I claim to represent no one but myself. Point out where I've done anything but that. Unless, of course, you are just unhappy with reality, and looking for someone to attack to make you feel better. It's a shame that you seem to discourage critical thinking, when that is most needed here.

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 106:

Unsean @ 104:

The Truth Hurts @ 103:

Unsean @ 102:

God, the posters on this site are exhausting. If you dare to step out of the "liberal line", you're instantly labeled a troll...or worse.

Fine. All black people are perfect. Jessie Jackson is perfect. All other minorities are perfect. All white people are evil.

Does that about cover it?

If it makes you happy. You know what they say about getting out of the kitchen if you can stand the heat.

I know what they say about trolls...

Way to shout down any opposing opinion. Yup, liberals certainly are open to hearing all divergent viewpoints. That "big tent" gets smaller all the time.

The Truth Hurts @ 107:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 106:

Unsean @ 104:

The Truth Hurts @ 103:

If it makes you happy. You know what they say about getting out of the kitchen if you can stand the heat.

I know what they say about trolls...

Way to shout down any opposing opinion. Yup, liberals certainly are open to hearing all divergent viewpoints. That "big tent" gets smaller all the time.

Sarcasm and Reductio ad Absurdum does not equate with opposing opinions.

RasslinGod @ 110:

Instead of arguin' about jesse jackson, dave chapelle, and whose arguements are sarcastic or insults...why not talk about black issues?? Everythings always politics and attackign another person because they differ in opinion. There doesnt ever seem to be anything good that comes out of these forums.

I think part of the problem is that they are seen as "black issues." That's what made MLK so effective, he hit white people where it hurt, in the Testaments.

That and Malcolm X scared the hell out of us (but I was a little squirt at the time.)

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 94:

now you've drifted from facts that don't support your statements to factless.
1) Elected officials ARE spokespeople for their constituents. it's even in the name house of REPRESENTATIVES. politicians always say, "I speak for the american people".
2) what office does jesse jackson hold? currently none, but from 1991-1997 he was the shadow US senator for Washington DC. maybe you knew that and wanted to leave that fact out to prove your point. he was also a democratic candidate for president. In addition he is leader of a large Baptist Church and the push coalition. I would say those things make him a pretty recognized leader.
3) you seem to make confuse the fact that there ARE white leaders with the fact that all white leaders don't think the same. nevertheless, the VARIOUS interests of white people are carried out daily by these white leaders through the US government.The same can't be said about African Americans. If you took a moment to read Jesse's piece you would understand why i said that.
4) in your attempt to counter my one example of how white people address the issues of other white people you failed. you are taking the subject of immigration vs security and ignore the racial element entirely. if it were a security issue and NOT a racial issue then there would be more emphasis on the Canadian border, especially since known terrorists were actually caught sneaking across it. I have yet to read 1 credible source that demonstrated that a terrorists, even the 911 attackers snuck across the mexican border. However, the main focus on immigration is how to fix the Mexican border, not the canadian border.
5) you act as if there aren't rich black people in the US. or as if obama is a multimillionaire. or as if the only people in New Mexico can fund latin american senators. absolutely not. this is completely a racial issue. obama himself has raised the most and second most money in the democratic party depending on what time you get the information (cause it constantly changes). I guarantee he won't be president. i actually know an african american woman who is in the US house of representatives and the very first thing she will tell you is that she had to actually win a law suite for her seat because of how the district lines are constantly being drawn so that African American votes are counted less.
5) you still haven't shown how 11% african american vote means that bush was elected by black people. white people voted bush in not black people. 89% of black voters didn't vote for bush. can you say the same thing about white people? no cause bush received 53% of the white vote.
You obviously know very little about what racism is and how it affects our society. Even economics is a racial issue in America. Slavery was economic system based on race. you want updated examples go read any of the university studies based on race. for ex. the harvard study that showed where resumes that were exactly the same except for the names were given less interviews if the names where ethnic sounding.
sure i blame. i blame people like you for taking the racial issue which effects so many african americans out of the debate or ignoring it all together. that's the exact point that jesse tried to make. something you just don't get.

it's simple lou...

there are still issues in 'merica that are black issues. plan and simple. like it or not.

at the top of the list....

people still asking, "why do there have to be black issues?"

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 114:

The Truth Hurts @ 107:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 106:

Unsean @ 104:
I know what they say about trolls...

Way to shout down any opposing opinion. Yup, liberals certainly are open to hearing all divergent viewpoints. That "big tent" gets smaller all the time.

That's hardly shouting down opinion.

I was called a racist and assumed to not be black, just because I had an opposing view (or failed to fellate Jesse Jackson, it is unclear which offended Unsean most) -- all without ANY substantiation. Worse, I was called John Stossel. Not to mention their empty sarcasm and insults against others in the thread. Sounds like trolling to me.

(But feel free to "shout down my opinion". We wouldn't want to avoid hypocrisy here.)

No idea what you're talking about. I was simply defending myself against all the deep thinkers on this board. Sounds like you have a separate issue.

truthseeker @ 115:

it's simple lou...

there are still issues in 'merica that are black issues. plan and simple. like it or not.

at the top of the list....

people still asking, "why do there have to be black issues?"

There most certainly are black issues that are specific to their community... the GOP has waged a war specifically targeting black voters in the last three elections in a deliberate attempt to suppress their vote and marginalize their voice in American politics.

This assault on their community came in the form of redistricting plans that split their communities, purging valid voter registrations with fictitious criminal charge lists, and suppression of military absentee ballots.

Having said that though... the point that Lou Dobbs was making is the same as what John Edwards made in the ninth ward in NOLA, and which Jesse Jackson approved of, that equal rights and equal opportunity is for all people... regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and "economic class."

There is common ground for all groups because to the "corporatist financial elites", they see only your income bracket... they have their interest at heart and its screw off to everyone else. If they have their way the vast majority of Americans will be dirt poor, trapped as wage slaves in low paying jobs, limited educational opportunities, and with little or now way to better themselves and become upwardly mobile in our society.

The disparity in income has not been this wide since the 1920s the era of "robber baron capitalist" and now as millions of Americans are about to have the banks foreclose on their homes in the subprime scandal/hustle... the Wallstreet Journal says that the "silver lining" to the subprime mortgage mess is that there will be plenty of cheap real-estate for those left with investment capital.

Paul Krugman's new book "The Conscience of a Liberal" really lays out "the who" and "the how" the powers behind the conservative movement have re-engineered society to favor the few over the many and race played a very, very big part in how Americans have been manipulated into cutting their own throats financially...

Review From Publishers Weekly:

Economist and New York Times columnist Krugman's stimulating manifesto aims to galvanize today's progressives the way Barry Goldwater's The Conscience of a Conservative did right-wingers in 1964.

Krugman's great theme is economic equality and the liberal politics that support it. America's post-war middle-class society was not the automatic product of a free-market economy, he writes, but was created... by the policies of the Roosevelt Administration. By strengthening labor unions and taxing the rich to fund redistributive programs like Social Security and Medicare, the New Deal consensus narrowed the income gap, lifted the working class out of poverty and made the economy boom.

Things went awry, Krugman contends, with the Republican Party's takeover by movement conservatism, practicing a politics of deception [and] distraction to advance the interests of the wealthy. Conservative initiatives to cut taxes for the rich, dismantle social programs and demolish unions, he argues, have led to sharply rising inequality, with the incomes of the wealthiest soaring while those of most workers stagnate. Krugman's accessible, stylishly presented argument deftly combines economic data with social and political analysis; his account of the racial politics driving conservative successes is especially sharp. The result is a compelling historical defense of liberalism and a clarion call for Americans to retake control of their economic destiny. (Oct.)

http://www.amazon.com/Conscience-Liberal-Paul-Krugman/dp/0393060691/ref=...

5x5 @ 13:

Has anybody noticed how often Rachel Maddow IS the voice of reason on all these shows. She needs her own show. It would be great if she followed KO on MSNBC or REPLACED that Beck guy on CNN. Go Dr. Maddow!

She needs to replace Tucker. He's on his way out anyway isn't he?

Marc @ 116:

I really hate reading discussions like this. You know, it's entirely possible to strongly disagree on something, and discuss that something, without resorting to name-calling, dismissive sarcasm, and accusations of "troll" that may or may not be accurate (but if it were a decent, civil discussion, it wouldn't MATTER if anybody was trolling, because there would be no reflexive ire to feed them).

I am not deeply involved enough, nor have I been studying all of what Jessie Jackson has been up to for the past couple of decades, to have a much of a position either way. I know I supported his presidential bid, and I get the vibe that he's missing the "point" a little these days, but then I could be misguided about either (or both).

I do know that, as someone pointed out before, it's sort of silly to say that any one person "speaks for" ANY diverse community. There are something like 35 million "black" people in the US now, and I'm quite sure that the people who live where I do (northern CA) have a DRASTICALLY different lifestyle, political outlook, and life experience than, say, a random black person from the deep south. Yes, someone could be very representative of some subgroups, probably even a majority thereof, but there's no one spokesperson for Black America any more than there is any spokesperson for White Male America, or Asian Female America, or even Liberal America. I can guarantee that a midwestern Italian-American family had a drastically different socioeconomic outlook than, say, a Jewish family from Philadelphia, and they're both "White".

We, and the media even more (because if there's anything news loves, it's oversimplification), want to be able to point to one person as representative of a demographic, but in reality it just isn't that easy.

Anyway, I just wish that people could check the facts behind their own opinion, then sit down and defend it or argue in favor of it in a reasonable, well-though out, polite manner. A few posters in this thread have, or at the very least tried to be civil, but I sure wish it was more.

(emphasis mine)

That is pretty much the point I was trying to get across (and failing apparently). Personally, I think one factor that is usually overlooked is the desperate NEED many "leaders" in the community have to keep hammering on separatism. There is a great fear that if people acknowledge the right, the REALITY, that black Americans are not all the same... that they are NOT all from the same "community" with the same unelected "leaders"... that the fight for equality will suffer. I think that's a load of bull, and from what I can tell, so did Dr. King. It's part of what made his message so powerful. Yet people still invoke his name in the same breath they incite with racism and separatism simply to "corral the flock" -- to remind that this is "us" versus "them, so you better get in line with your own kind, and follow the one true black leader (usually whoever is speaking).

That is a tragedy, a perversion of Dr. King's vision, and as self-defeating as crabs in a bucket. I'm glad people are starting to wake up to that fact.

It's not the messenger its the message.

I don't know how Black people in America can persevere.

What whites call a recession is everyday life for blacks.

One nation under God.

Bud @ 120:

well, I see race brings out your reportoire of insults. good for you. that certainly keep you from facing any issues. you must be one of the good liberals.

ysbaddaden @ 76:

Let me back up a little. The funny thing about all this is the prevalence of a prison style sub-culture, and those into it taking offense when they're treated with suspicion

And immediately after the Civil War to about the beginning of the 20th century, many of the children of former slaves dressed very well, and behaved in such a polished manner that they raised the ire of the KKK and other such terrorist groups.

In other words, they're damned if they do, and they're damned if they don't.

Well put!

Who is Jesse Jackson and why is what he says important? You jackass, I had to look your name up to see who the hell YOU are, and learn you made your name covering JonBenet Ramsey 24/7. Where do you get off calling Jesse Jackson unimportant, you may not agree with him, but he has worked since he was young for justice.
I didn't see your fat ass going over to Syria when they were holding an American pilot hostage. Why not? Cause not many people know or care what you have to say. So go back to child murders (white) and leave politics for the politicians, and that would include Jackson.

CoIntelPRo @ 41:

I hope this is not too indicative of C&L, but there seems to be way too much debate about other high profile people, instead of the actual issues and politics. There wasnt much debate in the SS thread, but when it comes to presidential candidates, comments went inot the hundreds, even 200s.

If this is always the case, critiquing other ppl all the time, then is anything useful really coming out of these discussions?? I expected this thread to be concerned about AA's situation, but as we all have seen, its not.

I really don't think that Rev. Jessie Jackson is worried about what white America thinks about him voicing his concerns for black America at all and as far as we are concerned, we don't either.

If white America would just think and look at all of the media in this country and tell me how many other black Americans are speaking about the important issues taking place in the black communities today. I will answer it for you, NONE. Each time this man speaks out, we get this Coriss line of white Americans that simply don't want anyone that is not speaking on issues they approve of, trying to tear us down.

Rev Jackson and Sharpton, happen to speak out very well on the issues, we want up front and out in the open for the world to see all of the injustice we are forced to live with day in and day out and I am so tired of the people that do the oppressing not wanting to be confronted with the very damaging tactics they create.

These evil disgusting bastards will go out and buy a negro tomorrow and pluck his or her ass on TV set, to demonize and talk down all of the issues, that are just currently devastating our people. In case many of you don't know, in the last week there have been at least 12 murders of young black kids, many shot in the back numerous times by corrupt police and white Americans who have been given rights beyond even the court systems to take a life.

Yes before you chime in with all of the support for what many of you will think is OK, I will say it for you. Some of these hopeless kids were wrong in there judgment and what they were doing, which is why we are crying out for the help and assistance that is needed to set these kids on the right coarse. We can't help them without a system that is willing to use our tax dollars to help us get behind these confused kids that have simply lost all hope in a system that is supposed to be for ALL Americans, but when it comes to them, the doors are slammed shut.

Many of you know dame well that the education system is closed to our kids or so screwed up and under funded it is sad and that also speaks for low income whites and every other race, but especially bad in the black communities. The jobs, skills and opportunities are a thing of the past. You have many of them being hauled to jail for little or nothing, only to give them a record, to never be able to recover from

Black America is paying taxes, like everyone else and yet our tax dollars are used for any and everything but our cause. We have a problem with that. If we are not going to have a say in how money we also contribute to the pot, then you need to stop taking it and free us from this hell.

We are tired of white America taking all of our money and doing what the hell they want to do with it and it has nothing to do with making life better for black America at all, white whites voted for these corrupt idiots that have simply stolen our entire government from not just blacks but med;. income whites also and they are hell bent on the destruction of the one race of people who stood up from the very beginning to say this administration was the wrong way to go for this country and they have done any and everything they could to prove we were right. And for that stand we are suffering the most.

All this bull shit about hand outs to blacks is exactly what it is, when we watch white America use ALL the media in this country to benefit rich white America , the education system to benefit white America, what little health care we have left to benefit white America and dame near everything in this country is done to benefit white America with all of our tax money . This is clear not only to us but the hold world watches this crap day after day while we are demonized and tormented.

There is no hand out in sharing and equal opportunity, without blockage and Lie's and you know it. We just want to be treated fairly and we can and will do the rest.

You can hardly expect people that are half ass employed and living on the current wages you bastards want to pay them to progress and yes all these so called people you claim are doing so well are simply not either. They may have small business, but no customers to spend with them and they too are hurting, because of all of the corporate corruption and blockage you folks have installed in our system of government.

This crap goes on each and everyday, to the point now that they are even telling us who we are going to support and vote for President, with polling data that totals 162%, when you need to be worried about how many of you will continue to support corruption and right wing thugery, that is simply distroying not only black America but all of us.

StCyrlyMe @ 136:

I sure can appreciate your passion. I would point out a few things though:

Really their is no one white America. Not all white people think alike, or act alike. Any more than the now fractured "black community". And certainly not all of them have benefited from this government. In fact, most have suffered. It just seems that generalizing about race too far beyond a point just doesn't help anyone get anywhere in the conversation. Just turns good people away... is that really what is needed?

I fear that a lot of people black or white, just no longer trust Sharpton or Jackson as truly representative voices. Who else? Good question. That is a BIG problem isn't it? Media ownership is the key to righting this sinking country in a lot of ways. All those "good ol' boys" that run all of the media sure as hell don't represent my interests, or anyone I know. But there are small voices (a great show here), WE need to help them grow! It's up to US alone to make noise for them and support them. Appealing to the media whores won't change a thing. Blaming all white folk won't change anything either. You need an ARMY of people to demand change and access to media. Luckily there is one out there, pissed off, and waiting for you -- people of all colors.

Heres one problem, why was the issue of Obama addressing the needs of the black community so easily turned into a gay-baiting issue? One that reflects badly on the community either way it goes? Whose "fault" is that? Or do we even need to talk of fault? Why not just commit to refocus on the very real issues that are in front of us, instead of being distracted? Then it was all about getting a white gay minister instead of a black gay minister. Give me a break! As our president once tried to say (and failed), "Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me".

Again, I really don't think there is one single "black community" anymore either (or one single black leader), but that's perfectly OK. Isn't it? People don't need to be told what to think, or have leaders assigned to them by CNN... EVERYONE needs to stand up for an end to the cycle of poverty and access to REAL education, right now! Forget arguing about which leaders, ministers, or camera lovers get the biggest share of the pie, it's time for the people themselves to lead as individuals, with plenty of common ground to fight for.

tyne @ 66:

capnmike @ 14:

People who want "Equality" should stop insisting on receiving special treatment.

From Jesse Jackson's op-ed:
"African Americans have, on average, about half of the good things that whites have, and double the bad things. We have about half the average household income and less than half the household wealth. On the other hand, we're suffering twice the level of unemployment and twice the level of infant mortality (widely accepted as a measure of general health).

African Americans are brutalized by a system of criminal injustice. Young African Americans are more likely to be stopped, more likely to be searched if stopped, more likely to be arrested if searched, more likely to be charged if arrested, more likely to be sentenced to prison if charged, less likely to get early parole if imprisoned. Every study confirms that the discrimination is systemic and ruinous. And yet no candidate speaks to this central reality."

African Americans are already receiving "special treatment" that is detrimental. The stats are all there. What is being asked is what can be done to make things equal so that it is no longer statistically better to be White in America. The Democratic party should not take the AA vote for granted, expecting them to tow the party line while not addressing the issues of that constituency.

OMFG THAT"S Peter Boyles?

Good GOD who'd have ever thought in 70's Peter would look like this. Petey buddy, hit the gym and get some sun, hell Denver has sun 360 days a year. When Lou looks healthier than you do, you've got a problem.

Peter was a good friend of Alan Berg

While I guess Pete could always be discribed as a middle of the roader, he sounds like he parrioting Rush Limbaugh. Surprising that Rush isn't in KHOWs line up - but Billy is

sarcasm doesn't work well on message boards nor chatrooms.