Chris Matthews' Heartache: Bill Clinton's War Stance
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Poor little Clenis-obsessed Tweety. Bill Clinton rocked his world yesterday by saying that he had always been against the Iraq invasion. Now whether that is true is somewhat debatable, because my own Lexis search didn't turn up anything that would indicate that, although he certainly has expressed it in the years since. Certainly at the time of the invasion (can you say "freedom fries"?), the wingnuts would have gone crazy had a former president spoken out against the current administration. But that doesn't matter to Chris Matthews, he can't believe that Bill Clinton would be rewriting history.
Well, with this flim-flam coming out about Bill Clinton , I just don't know what to say. I have finally been mastered by Bill Clinton. I finally don't think I can match him for chutzpah. It's a good Yiddishism for the ability to say something absolutely ridiculous.
Really, how dare anyone attempt anything as utterly ridiculous as rewriting pre-Iraq invasion history?
If this doesn't prove Tweety's right wing tool-osity consider this: Hardball did make a passing reference to Rove's unbelievably audacious interview with Charlie Rose, but spent five whole minutes over two segments on the betrayal by Bill Clinton, who it must be said, did NOT occupy the White House at the time of the invasion.
If Tweety has evidence to the contrary, and if Tweety were a journalist, he would present it instead of just a lot of repeating the conventional wisdom according to the Rovians.
Matthews and Russert think that saying something isn't true, makes it not true. That only works if you're O'Reilly talking to the tiny brained folk Tweety.
NO former presidents spoke out against the invasion. They kept quiet out of respect for the office, even though Bush has destroyed any semblance thereof. But in the face of the unmitigated mess that has ensued, EVERYONE but the 24% dead enders are now speaking up. I don't agree with them keeping quiet, but that's the facts. It was up to CONGRESS to raise the objections, and they screwed the pooch. It's CDS pure and simple.
Mathews is a ratings whore anyway so why is anyone surprised.
I'm paraphrasing here, but Bill Clinton said he would support an invasion after all options were exhausted, which clearly was not the case with this warmongering moron-in-chief. The key point being all options exhausted, which clearly wasn't the case. How is Clinton rewriting anything?
I wish I could pull up the video, but I distinctly remember Bill Clinton saying he supported the president on the IRAQ campaign. The Clintons are neocons just like the rest of them.
Jeez, if this struck him as revisionism, what must he have thought about Mr. Rove's claims that Congress pushed the White House into a vote on the Iraq Resolution?
Jeepers.
Tweety and Timmeh suffer from the same affliction.....cerebral flatulence....and oral defecation....
Chris Matthews needs to have his new "body language "expert review his contorted facial expressions when he hears the name "Clinton."I really do not know how he stays on the air.He can make coffee nervous with is hyper egomanical so called interviews where he hit his talking points ,asks a question,then answers them himself.Quite frankly I do not know why anyone agrees to be on his show anymore.The only show where he did not do that was with his wife when he slobbered over his "queen" like a horny St Bernard.That was it for me.Now I see the last few minutes of Hardballs if I change the channel early to watch a real journalist Keith Olbermann.
I think the MSN is the most dangerous threat to the future of this country.
I doubt Tweety ever had an original thought in his life.
Bluestater @ 3:
Slick Willy steps in it again and he gets defended yet again.
Chrissy lost me when he hosted Ann Coulter.
People still watch his show?
Tim @ 4:
ROTFL
Russert - Is that you?
Tim @ 4:
I don't know what to think of Bill anymore. He's completely lost his edge.
Bill has mastered the art of never answering a question where you can never pin him down to a position.
The Clintons win elections.
News Flash! Dumb-dumb. Bill Clinton isn't running for President. No one cares.
I think you're overlooking the fact the Tweety did is the favor of reminding us that the Senate indeed gave * a blank check to go to war, that HILLARY CLINTON, and the rest of them, knew what that authorization was about.
getalife @ 13:
All of this REALLY started to get bad the day Clinton came into office. The battles of the 1960s in this countryhave not been brought to a conclusion and a lot of that stuff was still boiling in 1992-93 and is still boiling today.
To an element in this country, Bill Clinton was the poster boy, when they looked at him they saw this, and when they looked at a lot of the folks he brought in they saw this too, for all the long-haired, bearded, Grateful Dead listening, pot-blowing, LSD dropping, paisley shirt or tie-dye wearing, VW bus driving, free loving, un-washed, civil rights marching, egalitarian, war protesting, peace-sign wearing, Haight-Asbury pilgrimaging people who they thought then and still think now are leading this country on the road to perdition. And they were never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to accept his legitimacy as president for that reason, and were out to do him ill from the second he said "so help me God" after taking the oath.
Sorry guys-
I just watched this clip and agree with Matthews 100% on Clinton. *I* was against this war from the start. I looked to Clinton and others to speak up against it-- NO ONE DID. I protested and didn't see Bill Clinton at one anti-war rally. (Okay, I only went to two. But you get the point).
I am a huge Bill Clinton fan. I worked on his campaign, I went to his first inauguration.. but jesus, he was NOT a critic of this war at a time when everyone who dared speak up against it was called un-American and a traitor and worse.
S
"I supported the President when he asked the Congress for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."
Bill Clinton
Tougaloo College Commencement Address
May 18, 2003
Someone @ 17:
Thats right. I wonder if any of them even thought, wait a minute, what the fu*k happened here? Apparently it was the opposite. They all went comatose and turned into robots.
Of course Bill Clinton was against the insane invasion of Iraq. You have to be a maniac to think that would work out well, or a warmonger/oil man.
H. Clinton voted for the Iraq Resolution, but that's politics more than support for the policy. She knew she was running, and she knew she would need that vote.
Despicable as such politics is, it's not like HC invented politics.
As Bismarck said (in German, here paraphrased), "Politics is like sausage. You don't want to see them making it."
Eric @ 14:
thank you!....jumpin jeebus on a pogo stick.....wtf....what has BC got to do with anything now..or then for that matter.........why don't they go after the preznits dad.....he's even more liable than BC.......
Bill Clinton and his bride are wearing really thin on me.And yes he did support the war and still does, and so does the annoited one.So no matter how much he wants to spin this it is the truth. Matthews is a spitting lunatic who loves to hear himself talk,on this one I agree with him.Can we please go forward and not have more drama and attention on the two most power hungry couple on the planet? Remind me again why she wants to be Pres? Progressives beware to not settle for so little.
Whether or not Clinton oppossed the war millions of others here and around the world did. Did they get any attention?
Not much.
Someone @ 17 "but jesus, he was NOT a critic of this war"
He didn't say he was a critic. He was opposed.
BC is a political coward, like FDR was. They do NOT go on record if they can avoid it.
Fact Check: Bill Clinton On The Iraq War:
http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=4406
Reality_Check @ 9:
I think Bill Clinton, as any rational intelligent person would have, actually thought that all options were actually going to be exhausted. No one in his right mind would ever have thought that this moron, who didn't even know of the sectarian angst of that country, would rush us into war as he did.
I am not a big Bill Clinton fan (he moved the party further to the Right, and fucked up by ignoring Rhawanda,etc), but I have no trouble defending such a statement by him. I believe him when he says he would not have supported this quandary. He wasn't the shoot first and worry about the consequences later as the moron Dubya is.
Frankly, I'm not to concerned if Clinton did or did not support the Iraq war. To me, his opinion is just like anyone elses. My focus is to hold those in the Bush Administration accountable for their lies and criminal acts that lead up to present day Iraq. After all, it wasn't Clinton that got up on national television and stated that he gave orders to invade Iraq. That decision was Bush's alone and he should be the sole focus and not Clinton's opinion of Bush's decision.
Matthews is trying to smear the Clintons, of course.
However, even a supporter of the insane idea of attacking Iraq with more than specifically targeted cruise missiles did not approve of Bushco going in and SLAUGHTERING the population as he did, underdeploying the troops as he did, destroying the culture as he did, and otherwise engaging in genocide.
The Iraq Resolution vote is FAR less important than Bushco's major warcrimes, because Iraq could have been invaded in order to remove Hussein without having the plan of dismantling the country for permanent airbases. The Resolution is one thing; the actual true policy of genocide is another.
Give me a break. Bill Clinton the politician was never some sort of counter-culture icon. In fact, his primary political agenda was to move the Democratic Party towards Reagan country and away from the liberalism of the 60s and 70s. The only reason Republicans hate him so much is because he stole their ideas and made them palatable to Democratic voters.
I don't know about Clinton and his stance on the war way back when. For all I know, he may have felt one way, but taken a different public stance as a member of the ex-Presidents' club. I'm not defending it, just offering a possible explanation. Whatever, Clinton was still one our finest presidents when it comes to sheer ability to do the job competently.
But I gotta call Matthews out on his characterization of the word chutzpah. First, it is not a Yisddishism, it is a Yiddish word. (Is the word "word" an Englishism?) Second, it does not mean the ability to say something absolutely ridiculous. It roughly translates to guts, balls, cahones, daring. One with chutzpah migh say something absolutely ridiculous, but many people without chutzpah say plenty of absolutely ridiculous things.
Like, say, Chris Matthews, who shares two qualities with the chair I'm sitting on right now. They both have same amount of chutzpah and they are both equally intelligent.
Katie @ 22:
read getalifes post @ 25.....
Mike @ 18:
I suppose facts don't matter to you, but ...
June 24, 2004: On whether the Iraq war was worth the costs
"I would not have done it until after Hans Blix finished his job."
August 11, 2005: When asked if the Iraq war was a mistake?
"Well, at the time, Wolf, I thought that we should not have gone in there until we let the U.N. inspectors finish their job."
It's not like he's saying anything he hasn't already.
matthews was an arse then, and he's an arse now.
Bluestater @ 26:
I thought he would. Does that make me crazy?
I've said this so many times I'm sick and tired of babbling morons who have bought into the Bush regime's and Corporate Media's framing of this issue and manufactured appearance that the Democrats were equally culpable for the invasion of Iraq. Get this straight: The Resolution for the Use of Force was neither a declaration of war, a "vote to go to war," or a blank check for Bush to invade. Go back and read the Democratic floor speeches at the time and you will find that it was intended only as a diplomatic tool to force Hussien to comply with UN resolutions. Nothing more, and nothing less. Yes, you can legitimately argue that no Democrat should have trusted Bush's promise (which he made to convince Congress to vote for the resolution) that he would not abuse the resolution to go to war and that he would let the weapons inspectors do their jobs. Bush lied, circumvented the weapons inspectors and then claimed that the resolution gave him the power to invade. Does anybody else remember Democrats clamoring that Bush had to go back to Congress for an actual declaration of war before he invaded and he refused? Well, whether you remember it or not, that's how it went down. The history of how the Bush regime engineered the invasion has been rewritten by the Bush regime, a compliant Corporate Media and an ignorant public that can't remember history past last week's celebrity scandal. It's a pity that so many on the left have allowed this rewriting of history.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
~George Orwell
"He who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it."
~George Santayana
mudshark @ 31:
You want me to read hillaryhub to get my information?Puleezee-from the two spinmeisters? Just read the blogs and all the quotes of what he has said.By the way Gore had NO problem getting out there to oppose this.But then he is not Barbara Bush"s other son
The only relevant fact is that Bill Clinton publically professed his support for the resolution in May 2003. Coming out against the invasion a year later when things had gone bad doesn't count for anything.
Chris Matthews on target on this one. So glad when Matthews stopped referring to how Hillary looked, or what she had on or whether she was warm and fuzzy enough.
KEEP WONDERING WHEN MATTHEWS WILL EVER MENTION THAT JOHN EDWARDS IS RUNNING.
So tired of the MSM trying to make up our minds for us. Show us the goods Matthews...report something substantial about Edwards. Like Edwards said no to Pac money (just who might be pissed at Edwards), and challenged Hillary on her Kyl Lieberman amendment Israeli firster kiss ass vote
Read this one
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18796.htm
Iran War: American Military Versus Israel Firsters
By James Petras
Another great article at "No Quarter USA" Larry Johnson (Cia with Valerie Plame) website
This brave whistleblower has not gotten the attention or protection needed
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/11/28/sam-provance-joe-valerie-wilson-and-ron-slater/
I think saying "let's wait for the weapons inspectors to complete their mission" was the most diplomatic way an ex-president could oppose the war in Iraq. At the time those were the two options. Either attack now, or allow the weapons inspectors to prove there is no legitimate threat and handle Iraq on a more diplomatic level. This is why statements about mushroom clouds, and Iraq being able to attack within 24hrs were so significant in the run-up to the war.
Katie @ 36:
I can see how you would feel the way you do...I was hoping you would of seen the dates when he made those comments.
I gotta say, at least Matthews looks like he is genuinely upset instead of faux-outraged.
It's a start. Maybe he CAN learn to live his life like a human being instead of "like a campaign". Of course, then again it was against a Clinton... hardly a challenge for him.
I think Clinton earned a second term, and voted as such. But I didn't trust "slick Willy" the first time around. I think he may have returned to the arrogance of those first days.
It shouldn't matter, as he isn't running. He should be able to just retire, and do or say whatever the hell he wants to. The sooner Hillary is defeated by Edwards for the nomination, the better for BOTH of them. Hillary can rule the senate for a long time if she chooses to; she has the perfect mentality for it. Why get greedy?
Mike @ 37:
Supporting the resolution and supporting the premature invasion are two different things. I figured facts didn't matter to you, thanks for proving my point.
at any rate...BC did not start this war.......the buck stops in the Oval Office....where it should.
Senator Clinton voted yes on the Kyl Liebermann amendment. This alone should have eliminated her from your list of possibilities. Unless you are an Israeli firster.
After looking at this again, Matthews' show regarding Bill Clinton's war stance is an irrelevant issue. Every American has an opinion on Iraq and Bill Clinton's is no different. If Matthews had any balls he would focus on the Bush Administration for making the decision and issuing the orders to invade Iraq. If he had any balls he would hold the Bush Administration accountable for their lies and criminal acts instead of holding an endless series of individual opinions regarding Iraq.
mudshark @ 39:
Snowball@25 .....she's right.
If you are part of the bunch that believes that Matthews is right wing... you are to the extreme left!! He is one of the very few reporters that tries to really ask the tough questions to members of either party.
This is complete bullshit. Name an instance where such an authorization was passed and the President didn't go ahead and send in the military. You can't do it because there isn't one. The Democrats knew full well Bush was moving on Iraq, and only a complete moron would've thought otherwise.
L.A. Confidential @ 8:
As bad as the MSM has been lately , the threat comes from the addiction of the public to TV and tabloid journalism itself . Like a drug , you crave it more and more while it slowly eats away at your brain . Mathews merely swings in whatever direction that he believes will boost his ratings. By February 2009 he'll be saying he was against the war from the start .
Read my last post.
Rick @ 46:
are you saying that you don't see any bias in his reporting/commentary.
Matthews is is merely a mouthpiece for his bosses in the Corporate Media. If they don't actually give him a script, he knows how they expect him to spin the issues. It's the same with the rest of the Corporate Media talking heads, they wouldn't have their jobs if they didn't smear Democrats and the left and pimp for the Republican party. The media is only as Liberal as the Corporations which own it. Whoever heard of a Liberal corporation? Doesn't make much sense, does it? Corporations have a vested interest in the deregulatory, anti-tax and anti social safety net ideology of the Republican party. Anybody paying attention to what Republican Corporate Media shill Kevin Martin is doing at the helm of the FCC? It's all about the bottom line.
The point is not so much whether or not you can spin comments about war as a last resort into support for Bush's war, it is about whether or not Tweety and Pumpkin Head are guilty of truthiness - something is true because it was said.
Our pols are guilty of truthiness, our pundits are guilty of truthiness, our citizens repeat truthiness as though it were gospel. That's how we got in this effing mess in the first place.
As far as I'm concerned, the Clintons are both far too conservative, far too politically calculating, but they are NOT the issue here.
Oh well -
Mike @ 47:
Frank Lutz thanks you for doing his job for him.
Katie @ 22:
The corporate Clinton's, and their DLC "republican-lite" agenda.
No thank you, I think I'll pass.
Hey Tweety. This is BUSH'S WAR. Just thought I'd point that out...
While Matthews continues his mini war on the Clintons wondering when he will ever mention that John Edwards is also running. Jesus Mary and Joseph Matthews when the hell are you ever going to stop deciding who we should vote for and give us the goods on John Edwards. When the hell will you mention on your show that Edwards is not taking pac money and why not explain why you never even mention his name. What do you have against Edwards?
As I said, you can argue that Democrats should have known better than to vote for the resolution, but you can't make the case that it was a declaration of war as required by the Constitution. Unfortunately, the only Senator I've heard make a coherent and forceful argument on this issue was not a Democrat but Chuck Hagel, who one cannot argue has ever supported the invasion.
Rick @ 46:
Oh, geez, which example should I choose from ..?
Why does Matthews have Coulter on frequently? Can you name one whacked out lefty to counter Coulter's looney rightwing slop? Why did he once provide Bernie Goldberg a full hour to talk about and plug his idiotic book, and yet brushed off a suggestion that he do the same for Eric Alterman?
Should I go on?
When PNAC brought the proposal to fight the same exact war to Clinton in the 1990s, Clinton declined to do so. But President Bush brought in PNAC to manage his foreign policy, so war was going to happen one way or another. I think it's 50-50 that Cheney had invasion of Iraq as part of his energy policies developed in 2001.
I seem to recall that Clinton was over in England to persuade the Brits to jump into the war in early 2003.
All this aside, I'm no fan of the Clintons. They represent the nanny state Liberal wing of the Democratic party who are more interested in legislating whether or not you wear seatbelts or smoke than they are about protecting your rights at work, your civil liberties, the working middle class and the poor or regulating corporations in the public interest. In terms of projecting American hegemony and empire, they are usually more likely to rely on diplomatic persuasion than military might as are the Republicans, but they still represent primarily the interests of the established elite.
Phil Ochs
"Love Me I'm a Liberal"
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I agree with Matthews that Bill Clinton supported the war by not being vocal about it, but he was definitely being a little melodramatic. He was just overacting and showing us he is an idiot. This is why I don't watch MSNBC, CNN or Fox News often.
"He wants to talk about his record on the Iraq War that thrills me...Lets talk about Osama bin Laden"
*Awkward Pause*
I do not see where she was going with that.
Having said all that, I'm no fan of the Clintons. They represent the nanny state Liberal wing of the Democratic party who are more interested in seatbelt and anti-smoking legislation than they are with workers rights, civil rights, civil liberties, the dwindling middle class the plight of the poor or reigning in corporate excess.
Phil Ochs
Love Me I'm a Liberal"
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I have posted this comment about Chris Matthews before and here it goes again:
About CM being against the war in the beginning. He was one of few that at-least implied that this was wrong…one of a very few… And do remember the climate; he would be on the street the next day if he had gone stronger. No guests, no ad money, gone. I remember sitting holding my breath many times that he would go all the way not letting the war mongers of the hook. Sometimes he sat them up beautifully just to let them slip trough the net when the heat started but at least he implied, one of the very very few.
So... basically Bill Clinton was right all along because he DID speak out in oposition to Bush's dangerous foreigh policy.
Another example of the Vast Right Wing Conspirancy, which had geared up again to kill Hillary's campaign.
The Democrats supported the Big Liar as he promised it would help keep us out of war.
Then the Big Liar started the war anyway.
This is so stupid its hard to believe Rove could think the American people would fall for it.
Oh. That's right. He just needed the Beltway media to fall for it.
Chris Matthews so wishes he were Bill Clinton. it's pathetic.
aznew @ 30:
Cahones is a Spanishism. The word is cojones.
It's not surprising that Tweety and Bill Clinton differ, especially with respect to 'stance'.
Bill has a narrow, attractive-to-female stance, while Tweety's wide stance only gets him dragged into stalls with republican Congressfolk.
Oh well, to each his own.
Snowball @ 57:
Oh, no, you missed Senator Robert Byrd, who was all over that issue.
"[The Constitution's framers] gave the war-making power to Congress, ... But Congress is on the verge of giving up that authority and of VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION by signing an open-ended resolution saying the president can do whatever he wants."
Am I the only person who saw this article in the Washington Post today? Nicole says a Lexis search found no evidence to prove BC opposed the war. But what about this affirmative evidence that he SUPPORTED it? Did that result come up?
"Bill Clinton's Claim of Opposing Iraq War From Outset Disputed," Page A8.
A former senior aide to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice disputed Bill Clinton's statement this week that he "opposed Iraq from the beginning," saying that the former president was privately briefed by top White House officials about war planning in 2003 and that he told them he supported the invasion.
[...]
Hillary Mann Leverett, at the time the White House director of Persian Gulf affairs, said that Rice and Elliott Abrams, then National Security Council senior director for Near East and North African affairs, met with Clinton several times in the months before the March 2003 invasion to answer any questions he might have. She said she was "shocked" and "astonished" by Clinton's remarks this week, made to voters in Iowa, because she has distinct memories of Abrams "coming back from those meetings literally glowing and boasting that 'we have Clinton's support.' "
Leverett, a former career foreign service officer who said she is not involved in any presidential campaign, said the incident affected her because of her own doubts about the wisdom of an attack. "To hear President Clinton was supportive really silenced whatever questions I had," she recalled. Leverett, who worked in the same office as Abrams at the time, said Rice and Abrams "made it a high priority" to get Clinton's support, meeting with him at least twice. Abrams was tasked to answer Clinton's questions and "took the responsibility very seriously," Leverett said. "Elliott was then very focused on making sure that we followed up on Clinton's questions to keep Clinton happy and on board."
[...]
She recalled being told that Clinton made it clear to Rice and Abrams that they could count on his public support for the war if it was necessary.
[...]
Leverett added that the White House at the time had little concern about Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's support for the war and "they discussed inviting her to various White House events as a sort of reward for her support."
***
Seriously, it mystifies me why so many liberals (including many of the posters at this site) reflexively defend Bill Clinton. It's like the political equivalent of the Stockholm Syndrome ... Identifying with the interests of your captor. Christopher Hitchens was right to ask why the right hates Clinton so much when they gave them so much of what they wanted, while liberals defend him so vigorously, even though he gave them so very little (and took much away).
Shoutout to Snowball.
Snowball @ 61:
I gather that is sarcasm, but it's a shame people have decided to denigrate the term 'liberal.'
Sorry, screwed up the link:
"Bill Clinton's Claim of Opposing Iraq War From Outset Disputed"
Rick Says: If you are part of the bunch that believes that Matthews is right wing… you are to the extreme left!! He is one of the very few reporters that tries to really ask the tough questions to members of either party.
At first I thought this was a joke but then I figured it out. You ARE Chris Matthews!
Sorry, screwed up the hyperlink:
Bill Clinton's Claim of Opposing Iraq War From Outset Disputed
Stephanie Miller needs to go on Chris's show and destroy him again. Matthews is always ready to attack the Clenis so he can have Chuck Todd over to help him tape Rudy pics to his bedroom wall
Mike @ 18:
If that's the best they've got against Clinton on this issue then Clinton is totally correct in his statement that he opposed the Iraq War from the very beginning. The Congressional Resolution WAS NOT a "vote for the war" and it certainly wasn't a "blank check" to go to war.
Everyone should take a moment to read it. It really isn't that long or complicated.
It is an authorization to use military force IF Iraq did not cooperate with the international inspections, IF Iraq failed the inspection process or IF the international inspectors discovered that Iraq is a threat to our national security. NONE of those conditions existed when Bush invaded Iraq and he knew it, as did everyone else on Earth, weeks before the invasion because the international inspectors reported that Iraq was "pro-actively" cooperating with the inspections and not failing them.
It was the right Resolution for the right reasons at the right time...but, as it turned out, with the wrong president. The options were to do nothing re Iraq post-9/11 and in the face of Hussein's bluff (or not) about having WMD or to invade without first installing inspectors to tell us if there was a reason to invade at all.
getalife's Fact Check link in #25 shows that Clinton DID oppose the Iraq War from the very beginning because his statements show he was clearly opposed to invading in light of what the inspectors were reporting.
chrissie wants to ride the clenis so bad! poor man can't control his man-crushes. :(
I thought that tweety had a crush on rudy. But I have another theory. I think he has sexual fantasies about bill thats why he obcesses about the him. come on tweety deal with your demons and come out of the closet and stop hating hillary because your not her
i'm with matthews on this one.....
clinton was pro-war well beyond the initial invasion, perhaps up to 2 years into the invasion....
It's Me, that is bullshit. Clinton can't weasel his way out of this one. The man is an inveterate liar.
I thought Chris Matthews' heartache would be Fred Thompson running out of 'Old Spice.'
Oh right, the war was Clinton's fault too. Where is the firing squad when it's needed in Chris Mathews studio?
Unfortunately President Clinton is not telling the truth on this one and it is the main reason I am so pissed off, with him and his bride, because if anyone should have known Bush was lying to American people, I felt it was President Clinton and if Senator Clinton is going to ride off the coat tail of the Clinton Administration, I certainly hope she will one day take responsibility for the most important vote, she will most likely ever make.
I recall how silent President Clinton was for such a long period of time and I was so disappointed in him for that, because As a federal employee myself I felt that even though I know it is not professional protocol for outgoing Presidents to take stands against the current one. He had a huge responsibility to a country that I know he loved so much and he just would not do it.
I sent countless emails (many were not so professional or nice), and I called Senator Clinton's office and got hung up on numerous times for my stand against her vote for this illegal crap. It was just useless.
I just can't say how devastated I was, when she actually voted for it . I had this sick vile feeling, that I have just not been able to recover from.
Enough Already
I am tired of the "got ya" press. It serves no value, other then demonstrating how much the press can manipulate what you say with semantics.
This quote was taken from the NY Times?
It sounds to me he was saying he would not of invaded Iraq unless they found WMDs. We know there were no WMDs. At best, he can make the same claim Hillary Clinton made: "I was fooled into giving my support to the president by faulty evidence. We know this president lied to go to Iraq. In fact the press knows this same truth.
I will take the time to express another point. I am so tired of the media flashing this one poll before the American people that shows Clinton and Barack Obama in a statistical dead heat. This is not a victory for Obama. If you wait long enough, another poll will confirm Clinton's lead. Instead of trying to make news, the media needs to just report it. The didactic nature of forcing a thought down the viewers throat as made this viewer very tired and untrusting of cable news.
Joseph
Oh, So Chris Matthews Is Tired
Do you think Chris Matthews' show should be named the "lets beat up on Hillary Clinton show?" This bastard is such a liar and a Republican hit man. Matthews does not belong on TV. He belongs on some psychiatrist's couch where he can talk about his anger of why Hillary Clinton did not marry him.
Joseph
Kathleen @ 38:
What has Edwards said about Obama's deliberate choice to be a no-show on Kyl-Lieberman amendment Israeli firster kiss ass? How much money does Edwards get from the legal profession or has he stopped taking it?
Until Edwards looks like Hillary, Tweety's not interested in him. He might have him on to bait him into trashing Hillary but that's about it. Tweety is foaming-at-the-mouth obsessed with Hillary. The idea that he would get so bent out of shape because of something he thinks Bill did or said years ago proves again how deep-seated his obsession is. Bill isn't running for president. It's Bush's war, not Bill's. Put the topic back where it belongs & keep it there, Chris.
I'm surprised Hillary doesn't have a restraining order out on Tweety. Like Joseph says just above, he belongs on a psychiatrist's couch where he can talk about his anger of why Hillary didn't marry him. He acts like an angry teen misfit who got turned down by the head cheerleader for the homecoming dance. It's quite unsettling to witness his spitting & foaming over Eveything Hillary, especially coming from a supposed "professional journalist." The misogyny that spews from his mouth in his attacks on Hillary is stunning & many times just plain bizarre. Every night, it's trash Hillary & then have a round table to trash her somemore. "Hillary says she is inevitable (no she didn't, Chris, but continue) so let's brainstorm what the other candidates can do to stop her."
Che's Lounge @ 2:
No he didn't. Clinton did not keep quiet at the time.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,916233,00.html
More . . . From Sam Stein's article on HuffPo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/28/bill-clinton-i-was-for-_n_74501...
“I was actually for giving President Bush the authority to take out Saddam Hussein;” hence, Hillary's position at the time.
Not that Clinton is incapable of lying (hardly!), but he said he'd have waited longer before invading Iraq, giving Hans Blix more time to find WMD. That sounds plausible. But Matthews' show is called "Hardball," you see...and it's too soft to simply accept Bubba's statement at face value and move on. Clinton's supporters believe him, and the legion of Clinton haters don't.
It can't be proven one way or the other at this point. Matthews is going nowhere in terms of learning the truth, and he knows it. But look at all the attention he's gotten! It's about ratings, folks. If you can create a controversy, do it. As long as people have nothing better to do than watch "Hardball" every night, your job is safe.
please,
anyone who disagree's with mathews here is arguing from a position to the RIGHT of him. Thats right, matthews is hitting clinton from the left on this issue. Ann Coulter is the best thing that ever happened to the democrats. I wish more transvestites had the courage to openly satirize the republicans by claiming to be one of them. In other words, ann coulter should tell steven colbert to get his own act.
Hey, at least Clinton cheated with an adult woman, whereas most Repugnantcans always get caught with a male, a minor, or both.
Chris Matthews is obsessed with the Clintons, I heard it started in "92 when he tried to get a job in the Clinton administration and was turned down. When the name Clinton is mentioned his whole body goes into a rage and nobody else is allowed to say anything until he gets it all out and that is usually to the end of the program. I quit watching it and am thrilled that Lou Dobbs has moved in at the same time slot.
I love Bill -- and Matthews usually bugs the crap out me with his filibuster style of conversation and debate (although he can be thoughtful at times with his commentary). All that said -- this is a valid complaint on Matthews' part and I feel the same way he does. It was incredibly frustrating and lonely to be someone who opposed going to war with Iraq in late 2002/early 2003.
Ibi Von Tater-Bacon @ 93:
No, it's not a valid complaint, it's a distraction. Bill Clinton hasn't been President for over 6 years now. What he did or did not do as a citizen is of no consequence because it had no effect on Preznit Cokehead's clusterf*ck of a policy.
L.A. Confidential Says:
I think the MSN is the most dangerous threat to the future of this country.
I doubt Tweety ever had an original thought in his life.
_____________________________________________________
amen. the corporate/repiglican media is a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER to our once great country called America. They, like their fuhrer Bush who represents all the corporate interests to the exclusion of 90% of the rest of the population, have made a virtue out of lying, deception, manipulation of 'perception', surpession of the truth of anything that would undermine the corporate interests including SHITSTAIN bush himself, that they are as responsible for the destruction of our country as the SHITSTAIN IN CHIEF HIMSELF. bombastic corporate buffoon like Matthwes, Russert, and Williams actually constitute the NEW AXIS OF EVIL. The coporation called GE have turned this stupid monkey into millionairs. these buffoons get pain millions to spew their lies and propaganda while our teachers, the teachers of our kids for god's sake, get about $30,000 a year. What the fuck in wrong with this picture ? These pigs are in fact a clear and present danger to our country ...........
Mike @ 29:
Besides - The Clinton Administration balanced the budget!!
Biff Limbaugh @ 33:
Amen!!
They kept quiet out of respect for the office,
Yeah, "respect for the office" is so much more important than the lives of a million Iraqis and several thousand American (and British and Italian etc.) soldiers. Thank God for that "respect for the office."
What a crock.
89: Yeah, that Bill Clinton was real prescient. From the Guardian article:
"Because military action probably will require only a few days..."
"Certainly at the time of the invasion (can you say “freedom fries”?), the wingnuts would have gone crazy had a former president spoken out against the current administration. But that doesn’t matter to Chris Matthews, he can’t believe that Bill Clinton would be rewriting history."
Guess I'm missing the reason to gig Matthews on this. Isn't leadership someone who demonstrates 20/20 foresight, even when it is unpopular or politically inexpedient to do so? Anyone can get it right after the fact. Like Hillary is doing now. Geeeze, just suppose Bill had loudly voiced the concerns then that he says he did now, maybe we wouldn't be in the shit-hole we find ourselves... No, I don't buy CL's assessment of Matthews statements from Bill. And I don't buy his wife's change of heart regarding her vote for the war way back then nor her recent vote for designating most of the Iranian military as terrorists... We don't need leaders with 20/20 hindsight or those that stay quiet when the fate of the entire world is at stake, that disqualifies them as "leaders". How many of you still respect Colin Powell after his aluminum tube presentation and his arm-twisting plea that the world follow the USA down the dark path it followed relative to Iraq? Chris Matthews, keep up the good work... They don't call it "Hardball" for nothing.
What the hell is a Yiddishism? And he got the definition wrong.
Have you watched this conference on the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
ArchBishop TuTu
Noam Cholmsky
http://www.arabic.hour.org/
blue @ 96:
there are plenty of things that I do not like that Matthews says. But you are lying to yourself or do not watch his program if you do not think that Matthews has been hammering for the truth on the war in Iraq for at least four years now. He was one of the first to shed light on what was taking place for returning US soldiers and he has grilled people like Bill Kristol, Ledeen, Bolton and other sack of shit lying psychopaths that lied our nation into an unnecessary war that resulted in a genocide and millions of Iraqi's
Matthews has been hammering hard for four years. He is pissed that he was partially duped. So you can continue to lie about Matthews and his coverage , but up until he started being obsessed with the campaign which is another way to continually distract from what is taking place in Iraq, he was hammering the neo-cons and hammering for the truth about the war in Iraq.
The campaign focus may be a way for his owners to divert Matthews focus on all of the lying. The Bush administration contacted Matthews handlers and told him to shut up. The campaign may have been the way to shut him up about Iraq it seems to have been successful.
you just gotta love the first pin head...
"i'd love to talk about bill clinton and the iraq war... let's talk about bin laden!!"
where the H E double-hockey stick has she been for the last few years?? under a rock? glued to a network called faux noos?
geez... where do they find these people?
I prefer Bill Clinton's war stance to the republicant's wide-stance.
jslo @ 102:
Oy gevalt, I'm such an alter kakher!
Bubba sure does turn Tweety into an excitable boy! He thinks a real journalist like Maureen Born????? Dowd should say something about this. You are the one that makes no sense Tweety--you are an emotional wreck! Hilarious!
Kathleen, so very true! I think people, who is hammering CM right now, don't watch his show. Of course he says things that I don't agree with but overall he was one of the very few speaking out!
Actually, Clinton opposed the invasion in a mini-debate with Bob Dole which occured on the 60 Minutes program. These mini-debates lasted only a short while but were great.
If I'm not mistake didn't Chris Matthews say a couple of months ago when the war was going incredibly badly that HE had been against the war all along? But when the war started I could swear he was waving the flag and telling us all that we had no choice but to bow at the alter of the brilliant war strategist George W. Bush after the fall of Baghdad.
Joseph @ 86:
I usually never respond to some of the crap on this site, but I need to respond to your comments about Senator Obama getting political points on this issue, when he has nothing at all to do with President Clinton, not speaking out (before 2004 i might add , when it is way to late), and Senator Clinton, voting for the war, when she herself speaks of all of the experience she has over others and then even worse, to have the unmitigated audacity to stand before the American people and refuse to take responsibility for not making the same judgments as Congressman Kuccinich, Congresswoman Barbara Lee and Senator Obama and other's that READ, the bill, oh and now vote for me because I am better qualified to be the president of the united states.
I will say this one more time. If there is anyone in this country that should have known from the beginning, that Bush was lying like the dog he is, it was President Clinton and there is nothing that could convince me otherwise.
You all piss me off with that shit
If only Matthews were capable of expressing this degree of outrage over anything said or done by the CURRENT president about things that actually MATTER!!! After all the lies and outrages committed by the Bush administration over the past 7 years, he reserves his greatest outrage for something meaningless spoken by a former president. Why does this man have his own TV show?
All you freaking Clinton haters kiss my ass !! You have a moron President Bush and you want to dump on Clinton. Why don't you put some of your hot air behind the movement to impeach Bush and NOT Bill Clinton again? Why does anyone watch Tweety anyhow, he's an idiot like his buddy Russert?
I am so tired of the Democrats that continue to defend the Clinton's actions no matter what they do. For Bill Clinton to say that he was opposed to the war since the very beginning is an insult to my intelligence because I am a news junkie and I know that he voiced constant support to George Bush for this war as did his wife. They continue to constantly lie to our faces and you morons continue to bend over and take this from them. If you want to condemn the Republicans for all of their sins then you better be prepared to condemn the Democrats for the same ones. Chris Mathews has been fairly even in his commentaries concerning all of the candidates. For a while all he spoke about was the inevitability of Hillary Clinton as the nominee. Finally he is giving Obama an even break. Thats more than Olbermann has done on his show. He fawns all over the Clinton's as if they were God's to him. When he got a chance to interview them his questions were the softest of any I have ever heard of' I used to enjoy his show but lately he has become such a lapdog for the Clinton's that it is getting quite annoying. Whenever Obama is getting bad press he has his usual stooge Craig Crawford onto get their digs into him. If you want a continuation of the last 28 years then vote for a Clinton again. I for one have had my fill of both The Bush's and the Clinton's.
Does GE have any idea what kind of clownact Tweety makes them look like?
Look, I would love to be able to vote for Bill Clinton for president again, and I'm daily embarrassed for the country by Bush. But I remember quite clearly Clinton going on Letterman before the invasion and telling Dave not only that we have to take him out but that it would be relatively easy.
Now, were someone like Bill Clinton in charge at the time, I doubt we would have had people like Cheney and Rumsfeld overruling military planners, we would have gone in with a huge force to establish the peace and at there was at least a good chance that we would have avoided the bloody fiasco that the Bush administration gave us. But maintaining that he opposed an invasion from the start is definitely not an honest statement by Mr. Clinton.
A follow-up, with some links: Bill does suggest one more round of inspections and warns repeatedly against acting without broad international support, but his initial and most dramatic response on the topic is disturbingly almost Cheney-esque:
"“He is a threat. He's a murderer and a thug,” said Mr. Clinton. “There's no doubt we can do this. We're stronger; he's weaker. You're looking at a couple weeks of bombing and then I'd be astonished if this campaign took more than a week. Astonished.”
CBS article on the interview
Complete audio (Iraq portion near the end)
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