John McCain: There are No Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq
By Bill W. Saturday Dec 01, 2007 1:02pm
Despite trumpeting the success of the occupation in Iraq all along and now trying to claim otherwise, John McCain on this morning's Face the Nation explained that reason the surge hasn't resulted in the political reconciliation it was supposed to is because "there are no Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq."
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Of course he prefaced this new excuse by again repeating what seems to be the basis his entire campaign these days: his revisionist history of his stance on the war all along.
McCain: When I took my position on the surge -- when I was the only one of all these people around me that said you got to do the surge and four years ago that the Rumsfeld strategy was doomed to failure and it was terrible --
How long is the media going to let McCain get away with making that false claim? Despite his repeating it over and over, the truth is that McCain has been consistently trumpeting the success of the Iraq war strategy.
“It’s clear that the end is very much in sight.” [ABC, 4/9/03]
“This is a mission accomplished. They know how much influence Saddam Hussein had on the Iraqi people, how much more difficult it made to get their cooperation.” [This Week, ABC, 12/14/03]
“I’m confident we’re on the right course.” [ABC News, 3/7/04]
“I think the initial phases of it were so spectacularly successful that it took us all by surprise.” [CBS, 10/31/04]
“I do think that progress is being made in a lot of Iraq. Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course. If I thought we weren’t making progress, I’d be despondent.” [The Hill, 12/8/05] ... (more)
The fact is, besides the temporary inevitable security improvements wherever there was an influx of more troops, sooner than later the surge is going to end out of necessity, the draw-down has already begun, and any prospects of reaching a political reconciliation continue to grow more and more dim.
Dec 2, 07: The detention by US troops of the bodyguards and son of Adnan Dulaimi, the leader of the largest Sunni Arab bloc in parliament on Thursday night has now led to a walk-out of the 44 members of the Iraqi Accord Front. ...(more)
If only Iraq had a Thomas Jefferson.
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If only the US had a President Al Gore.
Doc @ 1:
Fuckin Signed
Black_Knight @ 2:
Al Gore FTW
There aren't any Jeffersons, but there is a King George.
If only AMERICA HAD THE BALLS TO IMPEACH.
Call Nancy Pelosi @1-202-225-0100 and DEMAND IMPEACHMENT.
Don't ever say the Bush administration doesn't take care of its own. Nearly three years after Paul Wolfowitz resigned as deputy Defense secretary and six months after his stormy departure as president of the World Bank—amid allegations that he improperly awarded a raise to his girlfriend—he's in line to return to public service. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has offered Wolfowitz, a prime architect of the Iraq War, a position as chairman of the International Security Advisory Board, a prestigious State Department panel, according to two department sources who declined to be identified discussing personnel matters.
One thing must be said about John McCain, 'He sure is no Thomas Jefferson'.
The second thing that must be said, is that he has a good reason for revising history, for 'misremembering' his always-hawklike stance on Iraq, for poor-old-fart-John is losing his mind, whether to Alzheimer's or plain old senility is immaterial. Just to soothe the poor-old-bastard, we ought to offer an honorary position to him in the election, perhaps an 'Honorary Almost Ex-President' award, something he can mount on the TV in his nursing home.
A. If Iraq has no Thomas Jefferson, and by McCain bringing this point up, it can be inferred they need a Thomas Jefferson, what the hell are we doing there?
B. The assumption that there is no Thomas Jefferson because of Saddam is an incorrect one. Dictators breed Thomas Jeffersons. Far more likely any Thomas Jefferson-to-be was probably killed by a U.S. bomb. Or U.S. troops because he was seen as or mistaken for an insurgent. Or sectarian violence. Or ethnic cleansing. Or by Blackwater for a traffic violation. Possibly he is in Gitmo right now.
IRAQ doesn't even have any George Jeffersons.
I would appreciate it if John McCane and the rest of the war whores Republican and Democrat alike would shut the hell up already.
The Iraq war was lost the very first day we invaded that country.,
Why prey tell would i say this. It's because we invaded a country that had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9 11. Nothing to do with our national security. Nothing to do with Wepons of Mass Destruction. Well Nothing to do with Nothing.
We've been there for 5 years and the only thing we have to show for this useless endevor is Death, Destruction and more Death.
Remove our Troops Now !!!!
And o buy the way
We as a country need to pay for the Mess George Bush And Co Created, In fact we'll be paying for this for a long time to come
I don't see any in the US either.
More and more, President Bush's strategy in Iraq resembles an M.C. Escher illustration. Like the hands drawing each other or the elegant depiction of stairways that cannot possibly meet, the military progress of the U.S. surge is producing an image of a future Iraq that, while glorious to behold, can never be built. The very American alliances with Sunni tribal leaders that are reducing sectarian violence and the threat from Al Qaeda also threaten to undermine the Shiite majority government in Baghdad. And the "enduring" U.S. presence announced by President Bush this week may serve only to protect the Maliki government from its domestic enemies, not its friend and American foe Iran. If anything, the surge may be making the prospect of Iraqi national reconciliation even more remote.
For the details, see:
"Bush's M.C. Escher Strategy for Iraq."
This is so wrong in so many ways, but it exposes the Republicans for the how much the really don't understand what they got US into.
1. There are Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq, they go to work everyday and try to make the mess we made wor, risking life and limb in the process.
2. There are no Thomas Jeffersons the way Republicans think because the model of trhe American Revolution was grassroots inspired NOT thrust upon US.
3. We have dominiated what the Iraqi government is and how it works and how it fails to work (Bush cronies) . . . It has NEVER been truly IRAQs and when it looked like it was going that way Brimmer put in the provisional government.
So the Republicans are SHOCKED NOW?????
So, we'll just have to stay there and stay there and stay there until they get it right.
I guess.
Actually, there are probably some Jefferson's there, or the Iraqi equivalent. The problem is they hate us and want us out of their country and, like Jefferson, are prepared to become - you guessed it - insurgents in order to get rid of us.
What a mucking fess Little George has us in!
Jefferson???,shit.....they don't have a functioning govt....all they have is a room full of waring tribal factions...who are looking for the biggest payoff.
First it was Chalabi...ooppss...shouldn't mention him.Then theres Maliki....uhuh... sure.Now I know this is been said before....but.....One would think ,before they started this f'up war...they would've had a better plan....or A PLAN...for that matter......geeezzz.....
how the fuck can this damaged, deranged ID10T possibly be worth a thread?
well...at least they got rid of the George Boosh they had.
I like when McCain talks history.
I'm surprised if he'd be able to tell us what he did yesterday without completely distorting it.
I'll check in later.
I can't take anymore.
If only the U.S. had a Thomas Jefferson, again.
if Iraq did have a Jefferson he'd probably be writing something like this:
L.A. Confidential @ 20:
Confidentially speaking, I hear you.
Well, geez, there are no Thomas Jeffersons in the Repub party. They spit on the separation of church and state, they spit on the separation of powers, they spit on the concept of educating the electorate and encouraging democratic choices.
The Repubs are much closer to the Iraqis and supporting authoritarian control by religious mullah then they realize - or are smart enough to realize.
No Jeffersons in Iraq? Please, we might have two, five at most, politicians in this nation I could even remotely compare to Thomas Jefferson.
Otay @ 24:
for them to see what your saying....is asking waaaaayyyy too much...
I'm surprised anyone, repug and others alike, can bare to even look at these disgusting fools any longer, let along listen to them.
Thomas Jefferson was an insurgent. The Iraqis probably have several, they are just not in the puppet government.
Joshdavis @ 21:
We would not elect him. Because there were rumors even back then that he was an atheist. Nowadays, anyone daring to doubt the literal "truth" of the bible hasn't a chance at winning the presidency.
Back then they would elect deists. Not anymore. Deists might even be considered terrorists, at least in today's Repub party.
Granpa? Tell us another story?
it's taken him this long,to figure that out?..............and he wants to be President..uhuh...yeah,sure.
Yes, if we all just admit that the war wasn't wrong to begin with then everything will be fucking peachy! Please go to sleep and never wake again John McCain.
xoites defends Constitution @ 11:
Agreed.
"If only Iraq had a Thomas Jefferson". Hell, we could us one in the White House right now, but there isn't one lying around outside Monticello. Besides, except for being able to lie convincingly, the job requires no more talent than is needed by those nice retired people who serve as Wal-Mart greeters, because they can't make ends meet, so he'd be overqualified for the job anyway.
As a military action, McCain ought to know better than most that the suge is working in Iraq the same way the military battles in Vietnam worked.
Militarily, we didn't lose a single battle in Vietnam. Did any of them "work"?
No.
Saddam, a tyrant... But he kept the segment of Iraqi society, that was most likely to create trouble - in check. He demanded his iron fist on that society, and , quite sadly, that was what was needed.
You have what you have now, in large part, because Saddam is gone.
Meanwhile, McCain (and others) willing to go door to door, pushing democracy down the throats of the scared, the unwashed, and the millitant, give you the mess we have today.
As Ron Paul said briefly in his tete-a-tete with McCain at the debates, "We would resist as well" (in the context if an occupying force was trying to jam their ideology down our throats.)
Correct me if I am wrong, but the above statement is quite "Jeffersonian".
Poor John.
There are Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq . They are part of the insurgency. Some may have been killed along the way but others have taken their place.
As for the Chalbi's, Maliki's and others who are looking for the biggest payoff.
They have already got their payoffs compliments of the American taxpayer and now they want more. That money has been dumped into their Swiss bank accuints and they have all bought property in Switzerland. Switzerland is an expensive place to live .
There are no Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq, but there are Iraqi Thomas Jeffersons in Guantanamo.
SCHRODINGER'S CAT @ 36:
you're absolutley right.........this govt has been corrupt and compliant...and we've been suckers...especially the repugs....they still don't see whats going on.
Given a choice between resting in peace at Monticello or running as a modern presidential candidate, I wonder what Mr. Jefferson would choose?
Jefferson is buried at Monticello. The "if only we had heroes from our past to save us" lament will not save us. Jefferson was a great man, but there are people with the potential to be greater than Jefferson in your town. Find them!
As many have already said, where are the TJ's in the republican party?? Maybe Sen. Lindsay Graham could help us, instead of the Iraqis, work on the Rule of Law right here in the US- that would be refreshing, no?!
John McCain needs to give it up. He missed his chance to be Prez when George Bush lied about him, and he missed his chance to make a comeback when he turned-coat and supported GWB, his policies, and his war.
Yes John, there are no Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq because it isn't 1776 anymore. And there are no competent people in the Republofascist party either, yourself included. Fast forward yourself to the present, unpleasant that it might be for you.
...or here.
There are no Thomas Jeffersons anywhere, except hisownself, under the obelisque he designed to mark his grave at Monticello, and, of course, his graven images at the Jefferson Memorial and Mount Rushmore.
Too bad, because we could sure use one now.
Although these days, I doubt most would recognize his genius, since he would have a deep disdain for the MSM, and the other 'powers that be'.
Here's bush saying basically the same thing on July 30, 2003.
2nd try:
Here’s bush saying basically the same thing on July 30, 2003.
http://donhodges.com/mp3/gwb72003/George%20W.%20Bush%20-%20How%20long%20does%20democracy%20take%20and%20do%20you%20expect%20Thomas%20Jefferson%20to%20emerge%20in%20Iraq%207-30-2003.mp3
Where is the video of McCain's "victory walk" through the streets of Baghdad following his most recent trip? Wasn't that why he went back recently, to undo the damage of his previous high-security trip video by touting the difference the Surge has made?
Where's the video, John?
Clytemnestra @ 13:
It was thrust upon many and there was a lot more opposition to it at the popular level than most realize. Why would things have been any different then as now?
Most people are wired so as to fall on the authoritarian side of the authoritarian-liberty political axis. This goes just as much for the political left as it does for the political right. Most people are sheep-like and highly resistant to fundamental change, regardless of how corrupt and oppressive the current system they are living under is. For such people, a political system such as we have today is very comforting, where they can indulge in the illusion of change and empowerment without having to ever have to actually face the real thing.
The charade known as the two-party election system in this country provides a convenient distraction for the rabble and an outlet for their frustrations, and at the same time ensures that the wishes and policies of the oligarchs and financial interests who own both the country and its political parties remain undisturbed.
Just witness those who frequent this site as a prime example. Although there is very little that is redeeming or even legitimate about the empire's institutions, actions and policies domestically or abroad, the merest hint of dismantling the smallest part of the apparatus brings out all of the shrieking, squealing little "progressive" piglets en masse to protest.
And when it comes down to it, come election time, these "progressives" will end up voting for the empire's chosen politicians. They will vote for continuing not just the war but the entire imperial project as well, ensuring that the over 700 foreign military installations the empire has strewn all over some ~130 countries remain intact. They will vote for corporatism. They will vote for a candidate that has no intention of trying to rolling back the assaults on our constitutional rights and the executive branch’s power grabs. They will vote for a continuance of IMF/World Bank/WTO- style "free trade." They will vote to continue our debt-based monetary system and for the nation's money supply to continue to be in the control of a private banking cartel, further propelling us on the road to eventual bankruptcy. All for the promise of a bone or two thrown their direction, the illusion of change and empowerment, and the "satisfaction" of knowing that blue team has the reigns of empire.
In other words: keep the empire; engage in mass murder, torture and oppression abroad; erect a total police/surveillance state at home to deal with dissent; throw more people in prison, both nominally and per capita, than any other country on the planet; make nonstop assaults on my dignity. Just don’t take away my government cheese or engage in any of that “kooky” revolution talk. It makes me cry.
Truly a pathetic spectacle.
Well there was one but hew died in Falluja from the white phosphorus in bombs dropped on him and his family.
Merry Christ mass senator. Say...how's that crusade of yours going?
Impeach!
I knew Thomas Jefferson. I worked with Thomas Jefferson and let me tell you, John McCain is no Thomas Jefferson.
Don Davis @ 9:
You totally just blew my mind.
Don Davis @ 9:
Neither does the USA. Ha ha ha... boo hoo hoo.
"When I took my position on the surge my friends"..."It's clear that the end is very much in sight my friends"..."I'm confident we're on the right course my friends."
McCain constantly injects his comments with "my friends." He hopes he has friends but I am not one of them.
John, just take a trip to Baghdad and remind us how great things are there.
That should just about finish off your campaign. But who knows, maybe Mitt or Rudy or Mike will ask you to be their VP
S 1959 is ambiguosly written, and I am on one of the "conspiracy theory" websites that they mentioned in the House subcommittee meeting.
So with all of that, I have to ask myself, "am I a terrorist"?
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/12/02/am-i-a-terrorist/
Rasputin @ 46:
So what> you don't understand my meaning ... did another country invade us and say "you will want a democracy and the government we set up for you?"
No . . . it may have not been as popular as commonly held (which I will debate because I do live in New England and have read much) but it still was a GRASSROOTS movement and wasn't imposed by an outside, superpower
are we clear now as to my meaning or do I have to go and recount a bunch of poli sci papers for you?
They're not looking for a Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson never would've given Britain the rights to all US resources and allowed them to maintain bases throughout the colonies.
Heck, I'd settle for a George Jefferson. At least he manged to run a successful dry-cleaning business.
Mccain invites every reporter with a pulse on his campaign bus and they think he's their friend. He's the ultimate carny. The VA is screwing vets while Mccain lives in the luxury of his wife's wealth
I remember when the dems were actually getting traction with their cries to get out of Iraq. Bush was saying stay the course, dems were saying bring them home. McCain WAS the only one who I remember who said to put more troops IN. I thought back then that that position would kill him. McCain criticized bush because he wanted MORE of a surge when others were beginning to jump the pro war ship like so many rats.
I think McCain is as slippery as ever, but I do think that of all the candidates on the republican side, he was the one what was pro-war through and through. He even advocated for the surge before bush did. That position was supposed to set him apart from the other candidates. It didn't work because the other candidates are just as slippery.
I also would like to see some of the quotes that were mentioned in this blog entry taken in context. Anyone can put up a few quotes out of context that make a case for anything they want. That part of this entry left a lot to be desired.
I've it before and I'll say it again....you cannot occupy/invade a sovereign nation and impose a government on the populace....you may succeed for a while but eventually the people will rise up and create their own government...one to meet their needs not anyone else's.....we will never learn our lessons............
liberAL @ 51:
He does that constantly when he appears on the Daily Show. He calls Jon Stewart "my friend." I think he does this in hopes of winning over the younger and more liberal audience. Maybe he hopes the audience will say, "Well, he's a friend of Jon Stewart. I guess that makes him a cool dude..." Pathetic.
Is it true that the Iraqis killed Nelson Mandela?
On the other hand, the American voters would never elect someone, obviously, in the early stages of Alzheimer's.. Oh yeah. Reagan.
No TJs in Iraq maybe but we do have Quick Draw McGraw running our govt.
No Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq? Plenty of them, but the Bush regime calls them "terrorists" and then does everything it can to imprison or kill them.
Cat Atomic @ 58:
Exactamente!
If there were a Thomas Jefferson in Iraq, he'd be working his ass off to throw us out.
'mudshark @ # 39'
The end game to this BUSH ' FAMILY " CRUSADE will be money , as it always is , as a Texan I know pointed out to me. My wife hates me when I quote that Texan.
I am so tired of listening to him spew off the same old talking lines, over and over and over again. He doesn't get it. He's a politician 110%, and he's a repug bullshitter 115%. He disgusts me.
He's a has-been, and his view of Iraq is a fantasy of what he wants to see, not what reality is. Such a buffoon.
McKain is of no consequence, it's not even worth blogging about him anymore.
And there sure-as-hell are no Thomas Jeffersons in D.C.
McCain's next astute observation is going to be that 'There are no Marilyn Monroes street-walking in D.C.'!
Beddy-bye time, Johnnie, stroke yourself to sleep.
John McCain, racist warmongering scumbag.
Widespread @ 64:
Yes. They killed all the Mandelas.
Because, see, Mandela just sort of popped up ex nihilo. There was no context.
Thomas Jeferson only wrote the preamble to our constitution,it was Alexander Hamiton,
James Madison & John Jay who wrote the 86 Federalist papers.These papers were the
hart and soul of our constitution and took 8 yrs to write.They were then plublish distributed to all the 13 colonies the citizens studied them and then sent delegates to
Phil.to the first ond only Contential Congress and the only one to ratify the constitution.
From the end of the war in 1776 it took 10 yrs for this to happen the Iraqi people will
not reach that goal in a 100 yrs.
Were a "Thomas Jefferson" to emerge in Iraq, his life expectancy would be measured in days- Jefferson was an impassioned critic of organized religion, and a firm believer in the separation of church and state. The U.S. could have spent its money far more wisely in educating the Muslim world as to the ridiculousness of their religious belief system, but first we'd have to clean up our own side of the street, now wouldn't we?
"When you get started killing people for what they believe, it gets really hard to stop."
McCain is so wrong for America, and so wrong as an American.
Jefferson never had to make a country out of a warzone filled with religious fanatics, foreign terrorists and an occupying army.
Ummm... I'm not sure we'd have had a Thomas Jefferson or George Washington after our Revolutionary War had the French chosen to impose their political and economic systems upon us. Nor would our Jefferson or Washington have been looked-upon favorably by the rest of the population had they been in league with such an entity.
Putting oneself forward in Iraq, today, implies support of the American occupation... which, at best, isolates a politician from popular support or, at worst, marks him or her for death. It's very possible that there *are* Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq; you'd just have to look under 6 feet of earth to find them.
Jeff W. @ 78:
Ummm... how is the Muslim "religious belief system" any more ridiculous than any other? (rhetorical)
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