Sy Hersh: We Pay Bush to Know These Things - What Did He Know When?
It was a year ago this month that Seymour Hersh wrote in the New Yorker that the White House (ie: Cheney) was pushing back against the release of a National Intelligence Estimate on Iran that had failed to find any evidence of an ongoing nuclear weapons program. Once again I guess you could say Sy is the polar opposite of 'the boy who cried wolf'.'
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Wolf Blitzer had him on to discuss it and what to make of the new NIE and the recent claims by the President that he was just informed about it's contents a week ago.
Hersh: What's interesting here is the President's position. As you know today in his news conference he said he only learned about this the other week.
Blitzer: He said he only got the word from Mike McConnell, the National Intelligence Director, last week that there was in fact now a new the National Intelligence Estimate, although last Aug he was told there is some new information - we haven't vetted it - it's not yet confirmed - there may be some new information. He only says that he learned about the new NIE last week.
Hersh: Look, it's a lose-lose for them. Either he did know what was going on at the highest levels - the fight I'm talking about began last year. I was writing about something in November and also you mentioned earlier. They were aware of a big dispute inside the community that is between the White House and the community about this. Now, maybe he didn't know what was going on at the Vice Presidential level about something that serious. If so, I mean, we pay him to know these things and not to make statements based on information that turns out not to be accurate, or else he is misrepresenting what he knows. I don't think there is any question this is going to pose a serious credibility problem. I assume people are going to be asking more and more questions about what did he know, when. ...
It's little wonder why Seymour Hersh is so often the target of fierce criticism from Bushco as he's been a thorn in their side just as he has many an administration before them. Sy has earned his place as one of the US's greatest investigative reporters/muckrakers ever after his exposing many of the greatest scandals of our time. He broke the My Lai massacre, the torture at Abu Ghraib, and the CIA's "Family Jewels" that led to the Church hearings, and even Clinton's bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, just to name a few of his more well known.
UPDATE: (Nicole) Marcy has a great NIE timeline...
if ever there was a person overpaid,it's the Preznit.
For those of you who had any doubts that Bush was an incompetent madman, what do you think now?
it's only going to get worse for Booshco.
I - M - P - E - A - C - H !
We impose sanctions on Iran because they have a non-existant nuclear weapons program???
How does that work?
Geez .... look at that!
A journalist!
Come on. Are you trying to tell me that as President, he was not warned at the earliest time that something as important as Iran's supposed nuclear weapons program could be incorrect?
If congress fails to impeach, it is further proof they are complicit.
Does he have to rub it in that we're actually paying the guy?
In a sane country where presidential medals of freedom are given to those who actually deserve them, Sy Hersch would have one.
In an insane country, the defenders of freedom are persecuted.
If you fight for freedom in an insane country, you are a revolutionary.
Even Tweety called Busholini a liar on last night's edition of "Hardball"!
It is time to succeed, The fed govt couldn't protect us from influx of immigrants, then they are worthless, and more proof there only interest is to sell millitary to our enemies.
How many people think Wolf Blitzer should be the new White House press secratary?
I agree with all this, but Hello? didn't we already know Bush et al are a bunch of liars? I mean, after not finding any WMDs several years ago in Iraq, what credibility was there left to question? They all lied then and they are lying now.
The only explanation as to why we are not proceeding directly to impeachment proceedings is we must be in some Tom Tomorrow alternate universe where you get impeached for lying about blowjobs but not for lying about starting one war and trying to start another. Go figure.
So basically bush is either a complete boob who's kept out of the loop and has no clue about what's going on around him or he's a corrupt despot who uses fabricated intelligence to advance his apocalyptic policies.
And impeachment is off the table why????
I am numb. I don't even get outraged at this Administration, anymore. It is just business as usual.
Yet another game of "LYING or STUPID???????" comes to a thrilling conclusion.
Stupidly lying.
Mr. Hersh has been writing extensively about bush and cheney"s propaganda about Iran for over a year. The President of the United States stood in front of the world and lied. Either that or he stood up in front of the world stared into the cameras and told us he is a uninterested uninformed moron who can't be bothered to do his freaking job.
Plus I heard on the news this morning that the pres of Iran (too early to look up the spelling of his name) is claiming some sort of victory regarding this. And, as a result of what bush has done it may actually bring the people of Iran to support their president, where before, most of them were against him. He may win reelection because of this fiasco. Only geo bush could do something so damned stupid that it would bring the people of Iran to continue to support a man they really don't want.
Sy Hersh's latest: NIE CONCLUDES U.S. HAS SUSPENDED ALL BRAIN ACTIVITIES SINCE 2003.
the elf eared chickenhawk is always ready to deploy other peoples relatives for 15 month deployments based on lies
Why, is it at a time like this, aren't there dozens of Sy's out there beating the bushes (no I'm not calling for violence) and finding out what really is going on in this administration?
Time to rip the scab off this thing so our country can begin cleansing and healing.
Sy Hersh > Bob Woodward
Dirty state secrets aren't fond of Seymour Hersh, but they just can't seem to manage to stay away from him.
Keep giving them hell Sy!
Why this NIE now?
BushCo LLC has been setting on this info and they could have filtered it to suit their agenda........after all they do "modify" scientific info to support their sensibilities.
Why are they being honest for a change? What has happened in Iran that would cause them to suddenly NOT see Iran as a "nukular" threat?
Was Israel about to take things into their own hands?
I'm stumped, help me out Sey Hersh
pissed off patricia @ 19:
Well, add to the list...
1) destroyed our credibility with our NATO allies
2) destroyed our international reputation for taking the moral high ground
3) undermined our own laws and government processes
4) turned the USA into an international renegade with an unprovoked attack against a non threatening nation
5) destroyed our reputation for respecting all laws, inclulding international law
6) turned us into a nation that advocates torture
7) turned us into a nation of murderers of women and children
8) turned the USA into a paranoid nation of spies, busybodies, homophobes, religious extremists and intolerant xenophobes.
9) funded his immoral war on the backs of underprivileged children, poor women, middle class college students, minorities, homeowners and honest working people.
lastly...is directly responsible for the unnecessary deaths of over 3,000 of our fighting men and women.
Dr. Acula @ 10:
Yes... Tweety has been suffering from multiple personality disorder for almost nine months.
pissed off patricia @ 19:
Of course it is a Victory for Iran. The President of the United States along with his boss Cheney have been accussing Iran of being a nuclear threat. The world now knows it was a lie.
The United States was defeated in 2000 when the US Supreme Court stepped in and selected our President and were so embarrassed they had to stipulate that its decision should never be repeated.
We know some of what followed this decision. None of it positive.
When will impeachment come?
So what are the cable news channels talking about this morning? The weather.
I snowed in the northeast in December, imagine that.
The Tampa school teacher who had an affair with one of her students broke her parole by talking to a kid where she worked.
Don't hear much about the prez lying again to try to get us into yet another war.
Radically Moderate @ 25:
That is easy. The intelligence community released this report over the objections of the Administration.
They are obviously worried.
When will impeachment come?
ummm, I didn't snow in the northeast, it snowed in the northeast :lol:
pissed off patricia @ 29:
You are much more powerful than i ever imagined. :)
pissed off patricia @ 29:
Actually, 'Morning Joe' Scarborough (go figure) basically called Bush a liar for the entire 3 hrs of his show this morning.
We actually pay this criminal idiot?
Is Dennis Kucinich the only one that has the guts to proceed with the impeachment of these crooks? Unfortunately, the answer seems to be yes. These crimes against the American people are far worse than "sex in the Whitehouse". The checks and balances are there to remedy this mess. We all need to back Dennis Kucinich in his attempts to bring these criminals to justice through impeachment. And we need to back Dennis Kucinich in his attempt to become President and restore honor to the White House.
America needs Dennis Kucinich.
Dennis Kucinich 08 - Americas hope
israels been useing our military for thier own porposes , so if i was one of thoes sailors in the straits of hormuze i think the hair on the back of my neck would be standing up now, since bush has been exposed about his lies on iran they will have to go to the backup plan of destroying one of our ships and killing its crew and blame it on iran, they cant be allowed to dissapoint the war mongers in israel,
Sy Hersh = working brain + working mouth = terrorist sympathizer
Why does Mr. Hersh HATE America so much? I mean, he has to keep thinking, and then speaking the things that any child can see are true. And then the logic, Oh My God, he is a reporter that applies logic to world around him. That's just down right un-American.
Why don't you write about something people need to know? Like Brittany Spears, or how the surge is working, or why creationism is more accurate than evolution. But for God's sake man, stop writing facts about the President. Something that drastic just might get you put into Gitmo or Latvia or Yemen.
xoites defends Constitution @ 30:
My impression too, seems you have some intelligence officials who are not willing to be the fall guys, again, so they pushed it out to cover their own backs.
I derive some comfort from the fact that when history is written about these dark days in the America, that Dick Cheney will be relegated to the footnotes and GWB will get the blame for the atrocities that his administration has comitted in our name. Although DC wields much power now, he is still not the President and as such will not bear the brunt of the blame.
Little comfort now, though. Impeaching them both is still the correct course of action, IMHO.
wonder if senator pat roberts knew anything about this report way back when it was released....
Remember Dennis' bill to impeach did pass, thanks to the repubs in the House changing their votes to "yes" as they tried to embarrass the dems for even bringing it up. After it passed it, for all means and purposes, got filed in the round file. Has the garbage truck arrived yet? Can we get it out of the round file and talk about it now?
AbbeyHoffmansGhost @ 34:
It doesn't matter that we pay him anything. Bush would do be President for free in order to be the war profitteer that he is. He's making much more in blood money than he will ever get in the form of a paycheck from the American people.
My impression too, seems you have some intelligence officials who are not willing to be the fall guys, again, so they pushed it out to cover their own backs.
So a nameless Gov't cypher is all that stands between us and WWIII: Thermo-new-cular Home Edition ... great ...
Israel is pissed about the report? WHAT A FUCKING SUPRISE! All those fuckers want is middle east instability so they can expand their borders and Bush is in their pocket.
I am so done with excuses for this asshole's behavior. He is a spoiled elitist liar with a silver spoon stuck up his ass, protected by enablers all his fucked up life, surrounded by evil Stalin like butt lickers who laugh at his dumb jokes, agree with whatever he says, constantly tell him how great he is. We put this shit in office, so we are accomplices to his MANY crimes.
What can we expect? If we have fixed elections, they are going to be able to fix the facts.
This is way OT, but I just found out I get to go on a one hour cruise Saturday evening on a tall ship. How's that for something to look forward to? I am so excited I'm about to pop. :)
That's just the sort of thing that keeps me from going totally fu*king nuts in this time of hell and lies and general crime in our country. Now we know why bush always smiles at all the wrong times when he's speaking. He's trying to keep from laughing at us for all the times he has used us to get his way.
Left&Left @ 45:
Please don't say we put him in office. Five people put him in office all of them members of the Supreme Court.
When will impeachment come?
Left&Left @ 45:
I'm worried about you. You seem to try to hold in your emotions and feelings way too much. You should just let go and tell us how you really feel. You don't have to sugar coat it for us. ;)
pissed off patricia @ 47:
You may be pissed off, Patricia, but you are not in danger of going nuts. The members of Congress, on the other hand, who are unwilling to impeach are insane.
Dr. Acula @ 10:
Thats because tweety has a man-crush on Sen Biden. He would have agreed with anything Sen Biden said.
just for the record, I love Joe Biden too!
And in case any of you are deluded enough to think that the latest NIE should make any difference in our ongoing plans to nuke Iran, that bastion of unbiased, 'fair and balanced' reportage, The Jerusalem Post, has announced that it 'makes no difference', though it did 'bring a smile' to the face of Barak, the war minister of Israel. 'We must proceed as if Iran were going full bore to produce nuclear weapons', the Israelis concluded.
And these are the marching orders Israel is giving Washington, so what else is poor Dummy Bush to do, except mimic his masters?
I did not vote for bush. I have never voted for bush. I am not an enabler.
Thanks, Larry Craig, for allowing me to use your pattern of denial, but in my case, it's true.
"David.
Q Mr. President, thank you. I'd like to follow on that [...] this intelligence about them suspending their weapons program back in '03 had already come to light to this administration. So can't you be accused of hyping this threat? And don't you worry that that undermines U.S. credibility?
THE PRESIDENT: David, I don't want to contradict an august reporter such as yourself, but I was made aware of the NIE last week. In August, I think it was Mike McConnell came in and said, we have some new information. He didn't tell me what the information was; he did tell me it was going to take a while to analyze. "
1. What did McConnell tell him? Just a generic "we have some new information"? What idiot would not ask about the nature of the information.
2. Davi asked about information he thought Bush had, and Bush answered that 'Mike McConnell came in and said'. Does that mean no one else came ion and said, or is this a means of evading the answer directly whether he had heard from any source? What about Rice, Cheney - he knew about it for a year, Gates?
Hersh is my hero. He puts America first.
The rest of the world is laughing at us. Der Spiegel article: "Iran Report Sends Bush's War Rhetoric Out to Pasture." Our Cowboy Prez: All hat, no cattle.
Somewhat O.T. Bush is going to Israel? Hmph. Now the Israelis can capture his cellphone number. Ha!
Xoites Defends Constitution@50 Hey I didn't vote for this cocksucker either. I never liked this jerk from the first time I saw and listen to his pathetic ass. We Black Americans can generally sense bad when we see it, that why so few of us voted for this fucker. But many Americans helped put this clown in office and that can be denied.
hareli @ 56:
Fine by me, but only if he promises to never come back to the US. Take the dog, the wife, the kids, the grandparents, Jeb, all the sibs, and a his trail bike, just don't come back.
Sy Hersch has been a thorn in the side of booshco?
Now we have to resort to Voodoo?
Thank you Queen Nancy.
pissed off patricia @ 58:
:-)
Seymour Hersh is what the mainstream media used to be, before corporate consolidation turned newspapers and TV networks into oligarchies who care about advertisers and stockholders first, honest journalism second.
Hersh is a crooked president's worst nightmare: intelligent, fearless, thorough, objective, analytical, persistent, and independent. No wonder Bush and Cheney can't stand him.
Preacher Boob @ 52:
You ARE a boob, aren't you? Just another schmuck professing that Israel calls the shots for our gov't. Right-e-o!
And Busholini, the great international statesman that he is, is making his FIRST TRIP to Israel EVER.
Just for the record, not all pool boys are created equal. I happened to see my neighbor's pool boy a minute ago. I thought they were supposed to be knock out gorgeous. He wasn't! Whoa, not even close.
When bush tossed his hat in the ring for the 2000 election, a whole lot of people in Texas said don't vote for this guy, you'll be sorry. Not that I would have ever voted for him in the first place but I thought it wise to listen to the people who knew what he was all about.
I loved Hersh's line, said twice in this clip: We pay this guy to know the reasons for going to war. (paraphrased)
I dont think the argument could be made starker than this. All else is irrelevant. We pay this guy to have known this info four years ago. Why the fuck didn't he?
Dhalgren @ 23:
To me their is no comparison between the two, while Bob Woodward had done some some great work, Sy Hearsh has reported on items that he knew would put him in the trick bag with folkes who would like to smear his reputation all over the map.
That takes some feeling about your work.
xoites defends Constitution @ 30:
Could be, but we will just have to wait to see who or what dumped a steaming pile in Georgies hat. I'm not taking any WH statements as the final word on the NIE.
BTW If the next Administration is Democrat Sey Hersh should receive the Medal of Freedom!
juanchopancho @ 5:
At least Bush has learned. He's not starting a war of non-existent nuclear weapons program.
If we can't impeach him, can we withhold his pay? Instead of paying him, we could do so many better things with that money.
pissed off patricia @ 63:
Ditto the people in Missouri who warned us about Ashcroft.
Now the Huckabee state people are sounding the alarm about him. Particularly, a former aide:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/documents-expose-huckabee_n_753...
pissed off patricia @ 68:
Do you really think Bush paltry salary makes any difference to him after his millions in kickbacks from Halliburton and Blackwater etc.? It's not about the pay, it's about the power....and corruption.
We need to clean up this rancid mess.
Kucinich 08
OliverDreams @ 70:
Not to mention Bush family investments in The carlyle group.
pissed off patricia @ 29:
Don't forget Michael Newdow, suing again to have 'under God' removed from the pledge of allegiance.
And what you do hear about the Chimp-in-Charge is usually the, "Iraq wuz dangerous, Iraq iz dangerous, and Iraq wullbe dangerous" soundbite, as opposed to any substantive discussion of what is clearly a faulted foreign policy.
Woodward did ONE good thing in his whole life. Sy Hersh was doing this before you ever heard of Woodward. He makes Woody look like a cartoon character.
Can somebody please recycle this story:
"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories," Bush said in an interview conducted Thursday. "They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."
Days before days before Bush made that statement, the White House had classified an intelligent report that stated unequivically that the "mobile labs" were not biological labs of any sort. Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld continued to repeat that lie for months leading up to the 2004 election.
This old news seems worth repeating in light of this new news because it establishes past behavior.
Blue Buddha @ 27:
In reality Tweety suffers from panderitis maximus due to his compulsion to appear competent by having satisfactory ratings.
Riley @ 74:
I'm not doubting your comment one bit, but it really does beg for a link of some sort.
Don't let Perino get away with that cheap shot attacking Hersh! Her flippant, dismissive reference to Hersh's "anonymous sources" shows this administration's distaste for the necessary check and balance provided by an independent press.
Of course Hersh has "anonymous sources!" That's the only kind of source that would relay this information from the WH to the press. Those "anonymous sources" are patriotic Americans who are helping the press and ultimately the American people learn the truth about possibly the most secretive, lying presidential team in our history!
xoites defends Constitution @ 48:
Sorry, even though legally silence is not acceptance, we did put Bush into office. When we allowed the media to focus on hanging chads instead of voter disenfranchisement. Again, it was the belief engine (we are all guilty of having one) people are apt to believe the same media spin that minorities baselessly complain about everything. Here is the rub, 2000 enabled 2004. I live in OH, and I was so upset with the way (liberals not progressives and I do think there is a difference) bought the lie, and even laughed at the claims of the American voters (you know the darker ones ;)). However, (and I know because I lived it) it warmed my little heart to see a whole state (despite how some still try to focus in on one group look @ Columbus, and the state numbers and you can see it was everyone) become disenfranchised. This is the thing a lot of people have forgotten/never realized. You don't protect the rights of others just to make your self feel good (I mean of course it is moral but some have become paternalistic about it), you protect those rights, because you too may be the victim, (see housing crisis). It is hard for a majority of Americans (Dems and especially Repubs) to understand that they could be victims (until it happens to them). Moreover, in OH we asked (local/state Dems) the national Dems (specific ones at that but I am not going to name names, bc it would probably not surprise anyone) to come and start sorting things out, and you know what, they wouldn't. (Look at the Cuyahoga election scandal, that is both parties.) This analysis works on foreign policy as well (read the Hit Man book), eventually certain tactics can be turned against any population, even ones who supported, or were apathetic to it. However, knowing what we know now, it is time to get over the shock, and not make the same mistakes again. We laugh at those who actually voted for Bush twice, but many are still buying the line when it comes to coverage of the candidates. (I am support one candidate, who actually brings up this issue, but you would never know it from the way the media/ other liberal blogs speak).
To end, my grandpa always said that if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything, and that the people get the leaders they deserve! So sorry to tell y'all but we (as a collective) enabled the current government.
Why don't the 29%ers expect more from chimpy? After all he tells us everyday he's the decider and Commander-in-Chief.
Thank God we (us) expect more from our President.
chimpy's legacy will be something we will all want to forget
When will chimpy stop lying and stop passing the buck?
he's such a fucking baby.
the only surprising thing about this revelation is that the "liberal media" is actually talking about it for a once. As for Bush being a liar, all I can say if his lips are moving you can be he's lying his sorry ass off.
For Buschco, it sucks when the facts don't mesh with their evildoer plans.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 80:
I druther he'd pass a stone.
Shss@78 Amen! Only when we ALL blame ourselves for this predicament, can we be angry enough to do anything about it.
pissed off patricia @ 19:
Come on now. Do you really believe Iranians are so stupid that they would vote for a man they don't want in office?
GMAFB
Left&Left @ 84:
Blame ourselves? Huh? I didn't vote for Busholini. I voted for the Dems in '06. I blame THEM for sitting on their asses and not fulfilling their constitutional duties (such as, for one, impeaching the war criminals in the WH)!
We're PAYING Bush!!!????
For christ's sake, how long has this travesty been going on?
Maybe the FBI can find out who'd responsible, and we can impeach THAT ass*ole.
Sitting in a sales/marketing meeting recently, my views towards the launching of a line extention (based on my 32 years of experience in both fields) were vehemently questioned and opposed by a recent university graduate who didn't even show up to the meeting on time.
Everytime I see Ms.Perino question someone like Helen Thomas or Sy Hersh, it makes me puke. The audacity, ignorance, disrespect and arrogance of this little douche. She couldn't be a hostess at a McDonalds.
pissed off patricia @ 76:
Some of my details need refining, but the basics of my original assertion are correct, here are the links:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/11/AR200604...
http://www.bushoniraq.com/bush1.html
http://www.bushoniraq.com/cheney4.html
http://www.bushoniraq.com/rumsfeld1.html
http://www.bushoniraq.com/rice1.html
http://www.bushoniraq.com/powell1.html
I'mrelieved that we've taken a stepback from war with Iran
Dr. Acula @ 86:
Yet, did you speak up about voter dishenfranchiment in 2000? Did you speak up about flyers and calls telling minorities not to vote, or that polling places have changed. Or, did we even speak up when GW called people in SC and spread lies about McCain (I am not a McCain supporter I just hate foul partisan politics, and crap)? If the answer is no then...Now some did speak up in the begining, and continue not to let the real 2000 narative die (the stuff b4 the court decision). I had profesors who inform very liberal students of their mistakes about the 2000 election. Sadly, we have to admit that biases are both on the right and the left, so these students would not really engage the issue (unfortunately anything w/Jesse Jackson turns a lot of people off). 2 weeks b4 the 2004 elections these same students got their absetee fourms, and guess what! There was only one canidate on the fourm, (these were from Cincy, the ones from Cleveland had multiple cannidates). I am not talking about 2 or 6 ballots, I am talking about 50 (that I saw myself). Now, this may seem like a small point (in a much wider see of "ireqularities" that happened in OH), yet I think it is illistrative of some of the issues all Americans have. The media/administration/old guard narrative only works because it speaks to many people's belif engine. We may talk about the GOP's southern stratergy, but the truth is, most elections are not won by getting more of one side than the other; Reagan was Reagan because many non Repubs voted for him. There are narratives, that speak to the very dark side of almost every American, and the worst part is many liberals often find themselves unknowngly incorporating those narratives into our dicussions.
Again, there is good news, nothing last forever, there are paradigm shifts, my point is if we want to make sure we do not repeat the mistakes of the past, we have to reconize and own those mistakes. We failed (my self included) our democracy to a degree. Yet, that did not happen over night, as with the finaicial issues, and education, and even immigration (which goes back to coporate foreign policy) when we fail one person, eventually we end up failing ourselves.
(Karma is a b*t%h)
Oh and Michele Moore, pointed a lot of this out as well.
Left&Left @ 84:
As I voted for the other guy, and try to express my views to my elected representatives, I can't see where I'm to blame. Am I to fault for trusting those I voted for, or expecting the media (or anyone else) to come forward and denounce the gorram memes spouted on a daily basis by Hannity, et al?
And what does anger have to do with it? Venting is well and good, but what more do you suggest doing?
Ever since Ronald Reagan, and Iran Contra, Republicans in particular have been using 'I didn't know' as some kind of get out of jail free card on issues of central importance to the welfare of this country. Oliver North was running weapons to Iran (funny that) out of the White House basement -- that's the officially accepted story, the reality is probably a lot worse -- and Ronald Reagan got off by saying 'I didn't know'. How does not knowing that there is someone in your office selling weapons count as some kind of excuse. George Bush the sainted elder, 'was out of the loop' -- didn't know. And on and on, thousands of them, literally, have been getting off by saying 'uh, gee wow, nobody told me'. And now, history has repeated, the wheel has turned and we once again have a 'right thinking, moral, upstanding, beacon of light and hope', who is now known to have been lying his little pants off, unless, ... wait for it... 'I didn't know'.
It's time for 'I didn't know' to stop being any kind of excuse. It's their job to know. He went on national televison and threatened us with World War Three, and now... I didn't know. wups, geee.... Good thing our great and serious elders who know so much better than us are at the helm. Now we'll get some real responsiblity.
Uh, yeah, right.
Good Night and Good Luck.
He don't know shit. He just reads what Cheney has printed on the teleprompter for him.
Why would anyone bother to brief Bush on an intel report anyway?
When the intel was delivered to him in August, 2001, that bin Laden was determined to attack in the USA and might hijack airliners to do it, Bush made some rude remark to the CIA agent who interrupted his weed pulling down at his ranch and ignored the whole thing.
He doesn't even ask a pertinent question about intel that is delivered to him unless he senses there might be a way of exploiting it for his or his Party's political gain. And now that he has won that all-important second term, he is even less interested in that than ever before.
I really don't doubt that nobody briefed Bush on this intel until the day it went to the presses for national consumption. Why waste the gas?
#2
Incompetent implies he intended to tell the truth but it cam out wrong. No. He lied intentionally.
Left&Left @ 57:
Yeah, MOST citizens didn't vote for the shrub, but nearly everyone, including myself, sits back and continues to let the abuse happen. Everyone who pays taxes is an enabler. That's the "responsibility" part of a democracy.
Voicing our outrage here in cyberspace is just the first step. Actions speak louder than words.
How many here are still paying taxes to the Federal Reserve?
Shadowgm @ 92:
Stop paying taxes!
I have forgotten more than boosh will ever know...
Wait a minute, does that mean I'm dumber than boosh?
Iran Harmless as a Kitten, Pentagon Says
After months of trying to justify a pre-planned rush to war with Iran, the Bush Junta is now scrambling to put its own spin on a leaked Pentagon memo which reveals that the Iranian regime scrapped it's nuclear weapons program way back in 2003. Coincidentally, that was the same year Libya's Moammar Khadaffi announced plans to dismantle his own WMD's and comply fully with UN resolutions. But something else occured in 2003, something that makes you wonder if it all really is just a silly coincidence. You see, 2003 was the year that a certain political figure decided to do a certain something that a majority of Americans were strongly against, something that drew sharp criticism and widespread ridicule at the time.
Yes, 2003 was the year that John Kerry officially announced he was running for President. Wonderful news to you and I, but the very thought of a decorated war hero thrice wounded on the battlefields of Vietnam serving as our Commander-in-Chief must've scared the bejeebers out of our enemies in a fashion reminiscent of Jingus Khan. I'm sure the brilliant speech Kerry gave to kick off his campaign had ol' Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quaking in his khussas. If not the line about Terayza personifying American ideals, then certainly the part where Kerry slammed Bush's reckless and ineffective foreign policies. If Chimpy had any sense at all, he would've mailed a copy of that speech to Ariel Sharon and every other nuclear power that threatens our national security and World Peace. But Bush had better things to do. He was too busy launching his pointless war in Iraq, a war that has proven to be a total waste of time.
Shadowgm@92 If you're not angry about all this crap, I can't help you. All I know is that my anger will make me pay attention to red flags like voting for assholes because his father (another asshole) was a President. Or believeing without researching (lazy) whatever the MSM spits out to me. And yes you (and I) are at fault trusting people who lie to you. If your partner lies to you its up to you to make a change in your best interest. Anyone, no matter what party, who sides with these scum bags, I won't vote for or support.
I love Sy Hersh! When they played the clip of Dana Perino I just wish he had said "Well, Bless her heart, she's pretty enough but doesn't have a lick of sense".
I do worry about Israel and another false flag operation now that Bush & Cheney have had the brakes put on their push for war. Israel wants war with Iran as much as Bush/Cheney and I trust them no more than I trust B/C.
Sy Hersh rips it up "It's still not over, there is always Israel" They may act unilaterally.
I was watchin BBC World News last night, and they had a pretty good segment covering this...the look on the reporters face was friggin classic, and the tone in their voices was like...well like any of us probably, lol..like geeez this prez is a fuckin dumb asshole..except they had English accents, so it sounded nicer. ;)
In June of 2006 Nancy Pelosi gave a long and raging speech on the house floor...andi it was titled "It is Time To Face The Facts". In this speech... for the second time... she called for the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld. Everyone should read this speech. She rails about the need for accountability for Iraq mistakes and after reading it I can't help but wonder why on earth she can't make the same case for Bush and Cheney. Why hasn't Nancy Pelosi held bush and cheney to the same standards and demanded the resignation of them.
Please call Nancy Pelosi at 202-225-3121...tell her it is "Time TO Face The Facts" one more time.
VoiceFromTheWilderness @ 93:
"I don't think anyone knew terrorists would use airplanes as missiles ..."
-- Condoleeza Rice
"I don't think anyone knew Hamas would win the election ..."
-- Condoleeza Rice
"I didn't know (about the firings of eight U.S. attorneys)."
-- Alberto Gonzales
"I didn't know about this until last week."
-- George W. Bush.
Bush couldn't order a pizza without lying.
this is why all of the senior dems in congress and senate should be demanding resignation....
demanding accountability...
Shadowgm @ 106:
Sy Hersh says that this will hurt Bush's credibility. What credibility? When has he ever needed credibility? There is no credibility to hurt.
The only credibility he needs is the one that makes the military blindly follow his orders.
Kathleen @ 103:
ABSOLUTELY! Bush can't go in the front door so he'll use a confrontation between Iran & Israel to go in the back door.
It worked in WW2 (assisting England/Europe) with Germany and it will work here.
Far from being over and if you really want fear....then let this be your TERROR ALERT!
razanT @ 110:
BUSH/CHENEY are our biggest terrorists!
“War with Iran is no less likely now than it was last week, last month, or last year. Indeed, it is conceivable that the chances of just such a provocation occurring sometime before we get a new president have increased, precisely because the War Party has been dealt such a devastating setback on the nuclear front. Desperation makes people do very odd things, and in this case I would reverse one of Victor Davis Hanson and Michael Rubin’s arguments and apply it to those seemingly intent on taking us into yet another disastrous war, including the president.”
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12005
December 5, 2007
No Iran Attack?
Don’t Be So Sure…
Never underestimate the neocons
Left&Left @ 101:
Funny, I get better mileage without getting angry. I take issue with our elected representatives and the media because I'm simply paying attention.
And you're assuming I'm voting some invisible party line just because Hillary is a Democrat.
So I ask again, what good is your anger? How is it going to change things?
As for the 'not paying taxes' suggestion, my taxes nonetheless support things other than the War in Iraq. SCHIP, regardless of being underfunded, is a federal program that benefits from our tax dollars (that's why the Rethuglicans are so wound up about it being a handout). And why do you presume NOT paying taxes is going to do anything here? Has it escaped your notice that this gorram war has consumed over a trillion dollars in surplus and is now existing entirely on deficit spending?
Shadowgm @ 92:
I do not suggest getting angry, I suggest getting wise (not smart/not just numbers based).
1. Self reflection, ID you own weaknesses, and then our countries-realize that people are complicated
2. Read more, specifically history
3. Organize- (real world not just net)
4. Okay, people like bush only understand money, what about using our economic power to shock the system. Some people are afraid of forces like backwater, and force, but the government can not force you to buy anything. Not buying something is not illegal, not going to work for a day is not illegal (not paying your taxes is illegal). If everyone who was fed up, actually went a week w/out paying for gas, or buying any goods (especially those who advertise/own the media). If everyone who was fed up (and worked at wal-mart or other retailers) did not go to work for a week imagine what would happen. Economics is intertwined, so that would put pressure on part of the industrial military complex to appease the masses. They would probably do this by allowing for impeachment. Alternatively, what if people let those who are facing foreclosure know that (as of right now) they do not have to leave their house. (Look at the Fed court ruling in OH).
5. Do not be appeased.- Stop applauding when the media actually reports news, people need to start releasing, how much money/ investment many of the mouthpieces have. I think a lot of conservatives would be shocked at the investments of their beloved mouth pieces.
6. Be like California, re-call and re-elect.
7. Realize that many people feel the same way you do, and then reach out. I have found a lot of moderates repubs are ashamed, but do not feel like they can speak out because, they direded many movements in the past. We have to get them (and ourselves) to realize that movements do no start and end in board rooms.
8. Court challenges (even if something will fail overflowing the court can show how fed up we are).
Basically, all of us think we are entitled to a functioning democracy just because we are Americans, history shows that democracies do not have an auto pilot (yes I know we are technically a republic but those do not work on auto pilot either), they take work, and we must be willing to participate. Also people have to forget some tactics of the past, and find new was of dissent. They are probably a lot of ways to legally dissent, that will also not get someone tassered. I know a lot of people are afraid, but that is because onetime legal means of dissent (such as protest) have been cut off. Also, one can not look at the media to broadcast a new movement. However, people do need to start to branch out to embrace the moderate repubs and hardline dems that are now disillusioned.
These are some of my ideas (off the top) anyone else have any suggestions.
I believe the German people who sat on the fence during WW11 deserve a pass, but this time around the 20% who continue to keep thier head in the sand need to be ostrized like they did on mainland China, send all those Bush supporters off to an island with no other news but the national enquier.
Shss @ 114:
Excellent post!!! Absolutely brilliant!!!
If all of the above fails...and after all attempts, and I mean ALL, at peaceful means of fixing this clusterfuck this administration has gotten us into...Open revolt.
liberalNmoderation @ 116:
I see how corporations and politicians are scientific in their understanding of human behavior and how to influence people. I think we need to develop that science for ourselves, be good studies of demographics and how they think, what forms their belief. I think the blog worlds are beginning to help us learn such things.
I would not hurt to have a share of the main stream-level media infrastructure, perhaps a co-op someday?
During the democratic debate in Iowa broadcast on NPR yesterday... not one of the candidates could answer a direct question regarding Israel, our support for them and middle east policy. Edwards ran not around the question... he ran Away... like his pants were on fire.... Hillaroid followed that line. The only one who answered somewhat directly was Kucinich... and his reply was measured ass-kissing for Israel... while giving minor lip service to Palestinian statehood.
Once declaring their candidacy pretty much every presidential hopeful made their first stop at the AIPAC to speak. So while the Israel Lobby may not actually "call the shots" in washington.... they certainly "spellcheck" a lot of policy.
If Israel makes a unilateral move... "pre-emptive strike" hmmmm... where does that sound familiar? Would Iran strike back?... knowing full well Big Brother America will get involved. Especially considering the U.S. Military is in their backyard and has a couple carrier fleets in neighborhood pool?
Shss @ 78:
Shss @ 78:
Which is it, getting angry or not getting angry? (But read on, because I agree with many of your points.)
Nowhere has this failing been more evident than in the purple-thumbs/magic democracy dust mentality of the Bush Administration. Why, they had elections! Success!
But you're one of the few (first?) to point out that this is a creeping malaise that enables everything from Diebold's calumny to impeachment 'not being on the table'.
The media has a corporate-held leash and a very narrow dog-walk.
The challenge in reaching out to moderate repubs / hardline dems is to break through the insular thinking. For all the blathering about bipartisanship, we're not really seeing cooperation, or encouraging our leaders to work together.
Part of it may lie in the grassroots power of the internet, but we have to be careful that the future isn't paved over before we get there. Media corporations are still snapping up both providers and content - with the side effect of sterilizing it. You're not going to see the revolution on the pages of NewsCorp-owned MySpace, and you won't get it if there are tiered access fees.
When is it enough? When does the Congress get in this lying assholes face and tell Bush that he is on shakey ground and can no longer be trusted?
BRealistic @ 12:
I thought he already was. Remote location.
Hey, Sy, 'What did Bush know, when?'
'Nothin'', 'Never', and 'It ain't gonna happen'.
Gregg @ 117:
Check out Never Be Lied To Again by David Lieberman ... not a bad primer on the physiological tip-offs, as well as verbal cues that suggest you're being played.
While the majority of the book is about huckster psychics like Uri Geller, The Psychology of the Psychic by Marks & Kamman has a good appendix on rational discussion that covers some of the tactics used to sell fallacious arguments.
There may be other useful titles in the area of stage magic, such as on cold reading.
And it couldn't hurt to read some decent spiritual stuff. Praying Like Jesus is an excellent book by James Mulholland which takes a look at the Lord's Prayer in contrast to 'prosperity theology' (like The Prayer of Jabez books). Mulholland also wrote If Grace Is True, which addresses the question of who will be saved, and who will be damned - and why some people think there are those beyond salvation (Mulholland says they aren't).
The real problem is not lack of jounalistic potential like Sy's, it's a lack of newsoutlets willing to support and air it.
What might be a solution? try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xZFRohIu0
Bush is either lying or very stupid. I think deep down, its both!
Gregg @ 117:
Now that is definitely food for thought. I damn sure like that idea better than the one I came up with.
Dr. Acula @ 62:
You've put Israel on a pedestal so many times, contrary to what the facts state, one can only conclude that you're the BOOB. That's my revelation for the day, but you probably already knew that.
"That's not what we pay the guy to do." Heh heh. But seriously, he's the FUCKING PRESIDENT! Of the free world! How the fuck do you be the president of the USA and not have any clue what's going on? That was absolutely the lamest statement Bush has ever made (at least this week). If he's is that detached and well, stupid, he should not be running this country. But I guess we all agree on that...
He's not even a GOOD liar.
crrobs @ 90:
We? What do you mean "we" whiteman.
I will never vote for a repug.
Left&Left @ 101:
I knew chimpy was a liar before I voted for another dem in 2000.
A red flag is chimpy's pappy.
Good find, thanks! Although, I'm sure if that there wasn't an opportunity to pimp the CNN brand in this controversy, they'd could care less about Sy or the truth...
If this doesn't get traction as the scandal it most certainly is, I'm going to start wondering if this is still America! These guys are trying to lie us into war with a country that poses no real threat to us. AGAIN!!! What the hell do Bush & Cheney have to do, kill a baby on TV? If Congress doesn't hold an investigation that gets the facts by any means necessary and break through the stone wall that is the White House, what hope do we have of taking back our democracy? If Congress doesn't think seriously about stopping this rogue administration, they might as well put a crown on Bush's head and call him king. Or it might be easier for them (because we wouldn't want them to have to do anything hard) to stand on the steps of the capitol building and set fire to our Constitution. Why bother to have one? Do they not see the seriousness of this stuff, or are they just that gutless? We need a hero at this moment in our history, but I don't see one stepping up.
what do you think the repugs would do to Bill Clinton.....if he had done this?.........
Dr. Acula @ 62:
Dr. Acula @ 62:
Go piss in your beanie, see how fast you can make the propeller spin.
Dr. Acula @ 62:
Speaking of schmucks, you eisl, go suck a putz.
J.C. @ 132:
Be someone's hero, sorry, no one is entitled to one, but if you identify a problem, then you can id a solution.
mudshark @ 133:
What do you think the repugs would do if JFK did this? Seriously, why does it matter? It is important not to forget, but it is also important to realize that the repugs do not have power over you/us/ anyone, we gave them that power, and we can take it back (or even transform it). We have nothing to fear, but fear itself (our own fear).
wldj @ 18:
earl @ 6:
The consequences of which are war, death and disaster for millions of people.
Nancy Pelosi -- are you f**king listening????
Unreal ...
If Bush was the CEO of a company he'd have been fired a long time ago.
Sy Hersh is a national treasure.
Oh and I still think there is a nice Israel shaped piece of land in Germany, France, Austria, or Wyoming that would do just fine. We all agree that the bible is just metaphorical. Can't we pipe in a dead sea for them?
We could cordon off an Israel sized country from Michael Moore's ass too. Just sayin'
Why this NIE now?
BushCo LLC has been setting on this info and they could have filtered it to suit their agenda……..after all they do “modify” scientific info to support their sensibilities.
Why are they being honest for a change? What has happened in Iran that would cause them to suddenly NOT see Iran as a “nukular” threat?
Was Israel about to take things into their own hands?
I’m stumped, help me out Sey Hersh
This story came out the other week. I was wondering if this was the reason for the NIE report to be released.
LONDON, Nov 23 (Reuters) - The U.S. military has stepped up chartering of tankers and requests for extra fuel in the U.S. Central Command area, which includes the Gulf, shipping and oil industry sources say.
A Gulf oil industry source said the charters suggested there would be high naval activity, possibly including a demonstration to Iran that the U.S. Navy will protect the Strait of Hormuz oil shipping route during tensions over Tehran's nuclear programme.
The U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command (MSC) has tendered for four tankers in November to move at least one million barrels of jet and ship fuel between Gulf ports, from Asia to the Gulf and to the Diego Garcia base, tenders seen by Reuters show.
It usually tenders for one or two tankers a month to supply Gulf operations, which include missions in Iraq.
Back in 1975 the Ford administration was more than willing to sell Iran US nuclear reactors and even allow then to operate a fuel reprocessing plant per "National Security Study Memorandum 219" March 14, 1975.
It is very interesting the cast of characters involved. Rumsfeld Sec. of Defense, Wolfowitz Director Arms control and disarmament agency, Cheney chief of staff, and Kissinger National security council.
Shss @ 137:
No idea what you're talking about. Hope you didn't drive home in that condition.
BRealistic @ 12:
Let me fix that for you:
How many people DIDN'T know that Wolf Blitzer already is the new White House press secretary?
Perino, Bush and Cheney or Hersh's word....mmmmmmm I wonder who is telling the truth?
Credibility gap or Lying.
Which do you prefer?
McDuff @ 127:
This is quite simple. We along with GB created Israel to be a toe hold in the ME. It's not because "Jews rule the world" or "a global Jewish conspiracy". We used a bunch of people for our own geo-political game, who quite frankly were happy to be used.
Now we are in a situation where the tail can wag the dog. The US,GB and Israel know damn straight that we are waaaay to far down this road to ever turn back. And Israel uses that to their advantage. If they want something that is unpopular, they only need suggest they will do it themselves, and the US and GB scramble like chickens to appease them. Because as bad as it is being Israel's bitch, it would be much worse if we had to pull their shit out of the fire in an all out ME war. That would ruin all the Saudi cock sucking we've done for the last 30 years (and thats a lot of sweaty cock, just ask Poppy bush).
So that's it. Bushco keeps beating the war drums because Israel is threatening to bomb the shit out of Iran if we don't. If we weren't backing Israel, Iran could chew them up and shit them out in a month. Yet another good reason to have invaded Iraq, huh?
Left&Left @ 45:
Don't you mean, "a sliver spoon stuck up his nose" !!!
Spookytooth @ 148:
!
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