Romney's big "Mormon speech" only mentions the word "Mormon" once
By John Amato Wednesday Dec 05, 2007 5:01pm
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Scarce for vids)
Mitt Romney finally gave a speech to try and get people comfortable with his Mormon religion. I'd say that since Huckabee is rising in the polls, Romney got together with his split camp and delivered "the speech." I wonder if it will open up the flood gates of inquiry into what the LDS religious practices since most of the MSM has pretty much ignored it, but what I found interesting is how many times he actually invoked the word or a variation on the word "Mormon": Only once.
He also needs practice reading from a teleprompter because my first reaction to it was, he's reading a teleprompter. That being said, it was a hodgepodge of religious dogma that told the American people nothing about his religion except---you can't have freedom without religion---or something like that...
As Scarce noted in an email:
The real killer line (and ominous) is his
It's as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism. They are wrong.
You godless commies know who you are...
Here's the text...I find only one mention of the word "Mormon" in it. Check it out...
And here are takes from Andrew Sullivan, PERRspectives, and Maha.
I have an infection in my throat so I'm not really blogging---Nicole is going to kill me---
Login or Register to post comments.
It's hard to feel bad for a guy who constantly panders to whatever gets him votes, but this is becoming insane. who gives a flying fuck what religion he is? This isn't the 1960's anymore. Fuck Hucklebees for even making this an issue. Separation of church and state??? Guess not anymore
FRAUD
Sorry, fuck hucklebees and anyone else ( born again nutjobs) for making this into something it shouldn't be. Mormonism is a cult? umm, every religion is a cult
IdahoMoe @ 2:
I think you're missing the point. Why should he have to defend his religion? He shouldn't but has to because of the likes of Huckster
The eleven most frequent words (and number of times used) in his rant:
Word Frequency
religion 25
faith 23
america 16
american 16
god 15
religious 15
liberty 13
church 13
freedom 13
nation 12
president 11
Mormonism.
The second 'm' is silent.
Ozguy @ 6:
Cute. but how is it any different than Christianity or the Muslim religion? Or praying to a rock? It isn't. At all.
shouldn't a mormon speech be about mormons?
Romney had two aims here, allaying fears of the general public by invoking the separation of church and state (and that's what most MSM accounts are running with), and pandering to the religious right. He overtly and implicitly attacks non-believers throughout the speech, as someone who was actually defending the separation of church and state would not do. As Steve Benen notes, it's "the anti-JFK speech."
I'm interested to see the degree to whcih the MSM gets played on this. I heard Barry Lynn on the radio on this issue (I'll have a post and link up later today), and I know he picked up on Romney's actual message. Professor David Campbell of Notre Dame was just on NPR's All Things Considered and picked up on it, too.
And I hope you feel better, John. I've had throat infections before and they can be awful.
Joseph Smith woke up one day and said to his wife Emma "In a dream God told me to take a second wife, you know that cute 15 year old daughter of the new parishiners the Jones'?"
"It’s as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism. They are wrong."
Maybe MITT should have looked something up in the Constitution in those pesky Bill of Rights, in that damned First Amendment.
"Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion."
Mitt, the US is already secular. If you gotta problem with it, bring your complaints to James Madison.
IF we had true separation of church and state I would say religion should matter little to the voter. But we don't.
Because we don't - religion DOES matter - and I don't want a Mormon any more than I want any other person who is trying to advance a religious agenda and legislate morality.
*
Dr. Matt @ 5:
Thats interesting. I dont think JFK took the exact same approach in 1960, did he? In fact, here we are in 2007 and it seems we are regressing, confusing politics and religion like never before.
As far at Mitt, playing the "Fear" card right in the beginning, I would think even the religious nutjob, Republican voting masses are themselves getting sick and tired of being told to be scared of their new bogeyman and this "Islamofascism" clap-trap.
Soime
Batocchio @ 9:
That's what I got out of it. And what does it mean that "you can't have freedom without religion"? I kind of think it's the opposite of that. I have no religion and the only thing that I see threatening my freedom is the religious nuts in charge of this country.
If you look at the history and doctrine of Mormonism carefully you will quickly find that Joseph Smith added a entire new level of surreal heroic prophet mythology and cosmology on top of Christianity. Any fundie on a proselytizing tear will tell you so.
Hooks @ 4:
Actually, you're kind of missing the point. He feels the need to defend his religion because he and Huckabee both are pandering to the same right wing evangelicals that vote in repug primaries. Romney put himself in this situation. Now, I think Giuliani is utter scum but he doesn't pretend to be something he's not when it comes to religion. Romney can't say the same.
Attacking seculars is as repugnant as attacking any other belief ... shame on you Mitt.
You don't need a religious affiliation to vote.
As a former Mormon (oh how I like to forget that awful part of my life!) I can tell you that Romney is mimicking the leaders of his faith in the way they speak. All I can say is "is that it?" He's not just a Mormon but a moron.
Fuck Mittsy Flippity-Flop Romney! The only thing that concerns me is, he's the favorite of the Bush family, which alone should make this plastic-spastic bobble-headed doushebag unfit for the White House. So, look for the Bush crime syndicate to do whatever they have to in order to get this sock-puppet of a man into the White House!
Oh boy, this guy left the reservation. Mormonism aint gonna win the day in Texas, either. These folks likely dont want to hear your gospel, Mitt, save it.
And they likely think you believe in a different Creator then they do.
Joeseph Smith never played well in Houston is my guess.
"I wonder if it will open up the flood gates of inquiry into what the LDS religious practices"
Anyone interested with an hour or so to kill, Frontline (PBS) gave it a good look......
http://www.pbs.org/mormons/view/
Now that THE speech is over, will they stop comparing the Mittster to JFK? Please?
Hooks @ 7:
It's a lot easier to prove Joseph Smith was a con-artist in the 19th Century than to find any records on the dessert roaming, hash-heads that founded Christianity!
I'm Mormon, attend church every Sunday, and I'm not voting for the guy. I'm also about as liberal as you can get. Please don't mix his politics with the religion. He didn't mention his religion because his religion has nothing to do with the race, and rightly so.
Cue the applause.
And cue the moron, I mean Mormon.
As a lifelong Godless Commie, and damn proud of it, I wonder why we have to have all the ridiculous lies of religion in our government at all...it certainly has no place there, nor does it accomplish anything. Maybe one day we will have the guts to elect an Atheist, but meanqhile we are apparently saddled with bullshit.
I hate people who keep on bringing up these things about the founding fathers. If you actually studied history, you'd realize they were Deists who reject creationism, talking to god, and all the other supernatural crap. If the same people were alive now, they'd probably be athiests.
I guess he didn't get into the secret Mormon initiation rituals, or the speech would have had to be rated XXX.
And he stayed away from the sacrificial rituals to the angel Moroni?
And the stolen gold buried under the Salt Lake City temple?
Did he mention the Mormon Tabernacle Choir swinging parties?
And the Sapphic practices of neglected Mormon wives?
Christ, if he left all that stuff out, what did he have to talk about? The weird sexual practices of the Huckabee cult?
If you ask me, this was the real killer line:
"Americans do not respect believers of convenience. Americas tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world."
Are you kidding me, Romney? You've turned 180 degrees on nearly every single significant issue because what you held true in 1998 to get elected in Massachusetts is the polar opposite of what will earn you the Republican nomination nationally in 2008. If he wins the party nomination, he'll immediately swing back towards the middle. Say what you want about Mike Huckabee or Tom Tancredo, but at least they're not up there swinging back and forth just to get elected in the way that Romney, Giuliani, and McCain are.
"Although I dont believe in a religious test for public office, there aint no fucking way I would ever endorse an atheist candidate" _Mitt Romney
"Freedom requires religion..."
With all due respect, fuck your religion, whatever it may be. My freedom is just fine without it.
Thomas Jefferson would disagree:
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813
So to make his point he trashes another religion, you know the one that you can say anything and everything and you will not hear one peep from anyone. I trust this joker as much as I trust the 'genius' residing in the White House.
This speech is a big 'fuck you' to all atheists.
capnmike @ 26:
Saddled with bullshit. That just about sums up the whole history of humanity IMHO.
Saddled with bullshit. I like it. I'm going to make a bumpersticker out of it.
The ending was exceptionally crazy:
So, this nation was founded because God granted people's prayers? Whatever. Does this mean that atheists don't have freedom and liberty in this country because Romney does say that, "Freedom requires religion..."
Ozguy @ 6:
I always liked the part where it was the angel Moroni who brought -- I forget which -- either the gold tablets or the magic crystal spectacles which allowed Joseph Smith (a former carny) to read them.
Moroni? As in, Moron, I?
"A state governed by religious leaders always leads to tyranny" _ Joseph Stalin
So, what is MITT saying - Mormons are today's Catholics? As for cults, some pope defined a sect as a group who picks a particular scripture out of the Bible and build a faith tradition on it. A cult makes up their own stuff, kinda like the Mormons. There again, the definitions come from a pope, but he was probably right on with the Mormons.
And isn't Mitt (where in hell does one get a name like Mitt, anyway??) the guy who said no way in sheol/hades/the nether regions/hell would he have a Muslim in his cabinet, and now he's saying he respects all faiths?
Lyin'-ass doggggg is Mitttttt.
doesn't it bother anyone that it doesn't seem like he considers people not of faith true Americans. He keeps referring to the American people as people of faith. If I am not considered a true citizen of this country, let me know so I can make some plans to leave.
We should believe him; its not as if the Mormon hierachy has its heavy hand in the state politics of Utah, that should be reassuring; NOT!
I listened to parts of his speech and the whole time I'm calling to mind his statement that he would allow no Muslims in his administration. He was complaining/whining, in so many words, about intolerance and how it didn't matter what his religion was, but is ready to be an extreme practioner of religious intolerance himself. His thinking is so compartmentalized, that he doesn't catch any trace of his own epic hypocrisy. What a douchebag.
In any event, it doesn't matter, because the GOP is going to lose its collective ass next year. This dickhead will probably disappear after that and go back to abusing hapless animals.
Our man Willard is one hell of a Con Man - or at least he thinks he is. But I doubt he pulled it off and hopefully continues to sink like a stone..
navyswan @ 40:
It bothers me. I pay taxes. I am not "of faith". Damn! That's taxation without representation.
This did nothing to allay my fears. It did more to convince me he is not the person for the job. After 7 years of W and his faith-based administration I'm an even bigger believer in the need for separation of church and state.
another title for this grand speech could be
"sucking up to the bible thumper minority while swimming in lake me"
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot
Jo @ 44:
I agree. What bullshit. I want to vote for an atheist.
Too bad the evangelicals will despise him anyway. Religious intolerance is best practiced by the religious.
Mormonism.
The second ‘m’ is silent.
Fantastic!
That’s what I got out of it. And what does it mean that “you can’t have freedom without religion”? I kind of think it’s the opposite of that. I have no religion and the only thing that I see threatening my freedom is the religious nuts in charge of this country.
Very well said!!
I for one really hope there is a good long debate on this so these grown adults have to talk out loud about their ridiculous beliefs.
I think it would be great to have an all out argument about who's particular version of god is right!
Say it out loud! Tell us how a demi-god died on a cross 2000 years ago to save you from your sins so that his father wouldn't burn you with fire and brimbstone for all of eternity.
I for one have a hard time taking seriously ANYONE who is still fooled by ANY religious belief.
Let me see if I've got this straight. Romney gives ONE speech; invokes the name of Jeebus, thus meeting a required Republican "religious" test for the presidency (in violation of the 6th ammendment of the Constitution that they wipe their asses with) and they all start to SWOON. Within a day he goes from getting shit on to being "Reaganesque". Reaganesque: one who secretly negotiates with sworn enemies of the United States and arranges for the release hostages in exchange for stinger missles, and then can't recall a fuckin' thing.
You guys are starting to sound like the right wing condemning Muslims for their religion. Scary.
Are Mormons a cult of communism? Do they believe in the real jesus, or the false prophet of the DaVinci Code? Do they take oaths on the bible, or swear on Rolling Stone? Who are these people, are they all members of a choir? Do they all hoard food? Do they swap wives with their neighbors? Do they eat dogs? Do they boil cats before they eat them? Are their families too big to fit in the White House?
Do they park their cars on their front lawns? Do they have multiple children? Do their children have multiple parents? Do they eat sitting down? Do they watch only the even-numbered TV channels?
Gosh, it's so hard to get a handle on these republican candidates. They're complicated.
Call me a bigot, but no............I could never vote for a moron.
Youffraita @ 37:
I think it was Vito Moroni.............from Brooklyn............
Until it garners political influence.
I can't speak for others on this board, but I have as much respect for Mormonism as I do for every other religion.
Are his sons still on the bus protecting Ohio from terrorists?
Well if Mitt Romney won't distance himself from his religion, does that mean his idea of tolerance derives from the Mormon murder of the Methodists (man, woman and child) at Moutain Meadows? These bible thumpers are all alike--my way or the stake.
Sign me-- another godless socialist.
Lots of pundits saying, "Great speech! . . . Defining moment! . . . Presidential!" I don't get it. The whole thing came off as wooden, vague, and evasive. I was left completely uninspired (and unconvinced). He said he wouldn't "distance himself from my religion", but he said the word Mormon only once? Even then he used it to refer to his religion, rather than call himself a Mormon. We have set the bar so low that it requires only that a speech be given without blazing gaffes to qualify as "soaring." Artless, rhetorical goo in my view. This is the best speech of the campaign? If so, we deserve the slow and fumbling slide into the abyss that seems increasingly inevitable. God help us.
I want to know. Is he, or does he wear the "sacred" Mormon underwear. It sounds fantastical but it is true. It is emblazened with the marked with "sacred" symbols, I kid you not. A Mormon friend told me about it (by the way she is now divorced as she pushed her passive husband into the aggressive role that their church demands-he's just a nice guy that just wants to be married and have children.) This sounds like folly but then again, all religion is filled with stories as this, web-search it. No one has brought this up but it seems to me as a bizarre aspect of what we might expect.
Sambo Hux @ 60:
Indeed, and never more appropriate was divine intervention than right now
Bitter Scribe @ 57:
That would be the same I have for everyone that just makes fun of and tells scary stories about everyone else's religion. They are just as moronic as the right wing. I wouldn't vote for the guy and it doesn't have anything to due with religion. I wouldn't care what someone's religion is. People that vote for or against a person based on religion are morons.
For an inside look into Mormonism watch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2788963316682201540&hl=en
Read Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven," which details the flimflam of arch "profit" Joseph Smith, charged as a scam artist well before he finds gold plates no one ever sees but his pals, and no one handles (because the gold paint of these hastily-painted license-like plates would rub off), that he found by looking into one of his favorite "seeing" stones.
And then the story of Brigham Young's apocalyptic fantasy of the North and South destroying each other in the Civil War so that Mormons could take over the country -- a set of belligerent manias that led to the Mountain Meadows Massacre, during which Mormons led one of the largest, richest wagon trains to 'safety' from (red-painted Mormons) indian attackers, only to turn at a signal and slaughter the men, women, and children in cold blood, sharing out the wagon train's cattle and wealth as a bounty from the non-believers -- who Mormons felt it was their DUTY to rob.
I've met a lot of Mormons. They are nice people. Their 'religion' is horseshit, but if they want it, that's OK with me -- so long as they decide to help stop their co-religionists from raping their children and marrying their own daughters (and the like, in well-known communities that Romney, Hatch, McCain, and other fakes studiously ignore).
Mit Romney is a lying sack of shit. He personally imposes a religious test on anybody who runs for office. Romney will never ever vote for an atheist.
Lib Mormon @ 63 "People that vote for or against a person based on religion are morons."
On the contrary, followers of cult religions should not enjoy some kind of freedom from judgment for THEIR judgment.
It's a factor in the analysis, without a doubt.
j swift @ 15:
And Fundies shouldn't speak about Christianity. It might make the bastards break out in hives. They ruined my religion. Christianity is much *more* than Fundies, who have added a Jim Jones mindset on top of a religion I'll freely admit could easily become authoritarian in the secular world again. What true Christians must do is *stop* that from happening.
mrogi @ 38:
Cute, except that Comrade Dzugashivili wanted to be a priest and nearly got a degree from seminary. Not to mention becoming a god to the USSR of his time anywho.
12String NC @ 39:
The characteristics of a cult are easily stated: "apocalyptic vision, charismatic leader, separation from non-believers, and tendency for hysteria." Think Jim Jones.
Mormonism is not a cult. It is a former cult that has achieved a level of legitimacy. However, it is an American cult that has NEVER taken responsibility for the heinous crimes its prophets authorized, and continues to hide the heinous crimes of many Mormons, including child rape (for which a Mormon fundamentalist was just put in prison -- finally), polygamy, incest, and various forms of vigilantism.
Come out of the closet, and clean out the sty.
General_Rennenkampf @ 69 "Comrade Dzugashivili wanted to be a priest and nearly got a degree from seminary. Not to mention becoming a god to the USSR of his time."
Stalin's earlier 'interest' in the church went down in flames as soon as he saw a path to power. He was NEVER religious and ALWAYS a vicious dictator-in-waiting.
First of all "the religion of secularism"? Oxymoron anyone? Hello? Anyone remember what an oxymoron is? A contradictory phrase, like Bush Administration intelligence. Secularism is the ABSENCE of something, not the establishment of something. It is the ABSENCE of religion. It's like the old joke about the Atheist Church: they go into a room and don't say anything. HINT: There are NO buildings that are "Atheist Churches."
Secondly, Mitt seems to be saying, how DARE they establish a new form of religion (or absence thereof) in America? Oh really Mitt? Now, where was the LDS church FOUNDED, again?
Romney is just another weeny who finds scapegoats to deflect attention away from himself.
Mormons are great Americans. They are clean living, hard working, high achieving, law abiding, patriotic folks. Why are so many people afraid of Mormons? Why bash the Mormons? What did they ever do to you?
That Romney has to pretend he's a Kennedy to be elected is just funny.
Unfortunately, paraphrasing an entire speech from the 60's just makes him look more like a tool - a bigger stick you might say.
liberalbiasboy @ 54:
So you would not vote for Harry Reid who is a mormon? Or would you just not vote for a republican mormon?
How did Mitt get elected governor in Mass? It's not like he just became a mormon yesterday.
I could care less what religion a presidential candidate is as long as he/she did not wear their religion on their sleeve or expect us to be all religious. Fine, religion shaped you. Who cares? I want real, implementable ideas on how to fix the problems of this country and not some mumbo jumbo about how we need to "believe" to make it all better.
mrogi @ 74:
Uh, we were bashing Romney's embarrassing speech. That doesn't constitute Mormon bashing.
"Insulting" a religion is not insulting a person. I respect people to the extent a polite society requires, but I don't have to respect the chosen religion of the individual. Sorry.
H.L. Mencken said it the best:
"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
The election shouldn't be about religion, Mitt????? That's up there with the Bushie's trying to say they never linked Saddam to 9/11.
Dr. Matt @ 5:
So what's wrong with one wife, and 15 teenage 'house keepers'?
A mormon told me that gold plates dropped out of heaven to joeseph smith. I said 'wow, where can I go see them?' He said 'You can't, they're in the temple,and no one can see them.' He had on long underware in Memphis,in the somertime, 90o at 90% humidity. The room of Marines fell silent.
It's a joke that he doesn't want to be asked about his religion, yet he(and the other rightwingers) constantly talk about religion. Can't have it both ways.
Mittens is a poser:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/was-the-pho...
LMAO .... give it up, Willard.
StirFry @ 81:
What a telling image. Fake. Fakefake. Fakefakefake.
Mitt has a speech problem similar to The Dummy's, so his handlers told him to hold it down on the use of the word 'Mormon'.
They were afraid if one mispronouncement of 'Mormon' as 'Moron' were uttered, it'd blow the campaign.
mrogi @ 74:
Try growing up in SLC and not being Mormon, then ask the same question...
You people are pretty sick the way you carry on about someone's religion. You are all full of hatred and spite. I feel sorry for a lot of you people.
miss_kitty @ 82:
I read a blog that said JFK looks contemplative and Mitt just looks constipated.
Nancy S. @ 85:
Funny, I thought Christians, Jews, Muslims and Mormons had the corner on that market.!
Old Billy @ 47:
THAT is my "Quote of the Day"!
Nancy S. @ 85:
what could possibly make you say that?
OK, I'll confess right now that I am not wearing the 'sacred underwear'!
mrogi @ 74:
I wouldn't WANT Romney to make a speech about his so-called "faith" and that both Bush, the great liar and man of "faith" and now Romney, another man of "faith" feel compelled to give speeches on it.
Maybe the less he said about his Mormon beliefs, the better, and the more we hear about issues from these Bozo's the less people will cast a suspicious eye towards those who preach to us from their bully pulpit. I respect someone who like to keep their religious beliefs private, and very seperate, from their political spiel.
Could you IMAGINE a secular Muslim running for President in this country, what a freakshow the media circus would turn THAT into?
Nancy S. @ 85:
Amen.
racism
women as chattel
what more could anyone ask from a religion?
oh, wait a minute - "Double Guantanamo"! in the name of God!
Hooks @ 7:
Agreed. So, perhaps it's a fair question for any presidential candidate how their religious affiliation/beliefs will affect their actions as president. After all, we have a president right now who says that god told him to invade Iraq, and who dogmatically maintains not only that everything is just peachy over there, but that history will inevitably prove him to be some sort of heroic visionary.
I wholeheartedly support the Constitutional provision that there be no de jure religious test for office, but Romney can't expect not to have to talk about the tenets of his faith, and how they might influence his executive decisions. Certainly, he's not the only candidate who has been, or would be, expected to do so. John F. Kennedy squarely confronted questions about his possible first allegiance to the Pope. Any atheist candidate would be questioned about his lack of faith at every single press event, and would moreover be asked repeatedly about how he would govern a country in which the overwhelming majority are theists. A member of the Nation of Islam would be asked about connections to Louis Farrakhan, and whether his religion requires him to be racist. Membership in the KKK has a religious component, and Sen. Byrd ought to be questioned about his affiliation with that organization more, not less. These are not unreasonable questions, and Romney should not be exempt from them.
And it's not really enough merely to mouth "right answers" like,
It hardly requires a professional level of political savvy to come up with that answer.
If Romney will not "disavow one or another of [Mormonism's] precepts," because he genuinely believes them, then why should it be off limits to question what they mean to him? Romney was an active, adult member of the church when those tenets mandated racism. Shouldn't he be asked about that? What did he think of those tenets? Was he active in the reforms of Mormon doctrine? Does he lament the reforms?
I have no problem voting for a member of any religion if that member shares my political philosophy and goals. If that candidate can represent me in government, fantastic. But to the extent that someone's religion might affect his political philosophies and goals, he should be willing to discuss it publicly. Especially someone like Romney, who has mentioned repeatedly how important it is to have a person of faith in the White House.
But alas, instead, Romney wants to cry persecution for being asked questions, only to turn around and maintain that someone not of any faith shouldn't be president.
mrogi @ 74:
:lol:
Hooks @ 7:
All religions are silly and based on hot air.
Mormonism, though, is based on a series of claims that are demonstrably false. The Book of Mormon 'chronicles' the 'history' of a number of pre-Columbian civilizations that no credible main stream archaeologist or historian will vouch for. Quite the opposite in fact. They say they it is a complete load of crap.
Here's a tip. Try reading the Book of Mormon. I did. The stench of the fraudulent rises from the pages.
The Bible, the Koran and all the other 'holy' texts deal with peoples and the civilizations that actually existed. They have at least that much grounding in reality. All the religious stuff is worthless, of course.
Karen @ 94:
romney is as sincere as guiliana or hucksterby or mclame.
how can anyone take these christo-fascists seriously?
Lib Mormon @ 52:
I would never vote for a Muslim fundamentalist in a million years.
I apply the same rule to any religious looney, no matter what brand of madness they are peddling.
Bookem Danno @ 96:
reminds me of Elron Hubbard!
He could have done worse, but I don't think he'll convice anyone. Too many people have dogmatic beliefs.
Matthews and Joe Scar were orgasming over this dud of a speech
The Rev. Barry Lynn (Americans United for Separation of Church and State) on Lou Dobbs about Romney's speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3W_7n-ZIU
his speech sounded like he was channeling bill o'lielly.
CoIntelPro @ 99:
The parallels are striking. Both Hubbard and Smith were clearly charismatic men and gifted 'creative' writers.
But it is extraordinary that such a large movements can be built up around such obvious frauds. I guess if there's one born every minute, that adds up to a lot of people.
Bookem Danno @ 104:
Heh, if only it were "extraordinary." Sathya Sai Baba has millions of followers, and claims (among other boastings) to have been born of a virgin, to be a god in human form, to have healing powers, and to have raised the dead. And he's still alive.
Just don't elect a puritan, of any stripe. I hate prude bastards.
Karen @ 105:
Ah. Sai Baba. Truly a 24-carat rolled-gold religious charlatan (in fact I think he owns a gold Rolls).
There's another common thread among these types. As well as greed and lust for power, there's usually some kind of sexual shenanigans going on. In Sai Baba's case it's an 'interest' in young boys.
Religion. Greed. Power. Perversion...
Sai Baba, the GOP awaits!
As a non-Mormon in Utah I hear "if you're not Mormon you shouldn't live in Utah".
From Romney's speech I heard 'if you're not Christian you shouldn't live in the US'.
There are no women in Willard's world either. He spoke only of men. Not people, not persons, no citizens, nope, just men. Odd.
non-mo in Utah @ 108:
...and that's what the people whose vote he is looking for want to hear.
His speech was delivered in typical Mormon fashion. Youtube LDS General Conference
Bookem Danno @ 104:
No, that's because you don't understand either Scientology or Mormonism, or Skull & Bones.
These are ACCESS CULTS, which many early religions were. People become Scientologists NOT because they find the book or system 'works', but because being a member is how to get RICH. It allows persons to engage in business conspiracy, the same way that being a member of the Elk Lodge does. Members gain access to rich members, and all of a sudden doors open.
It is as far from actual moral religion as you can get. It's the 'religion' of the Pharisees (in the common Christian sense of that slur).
Bookem Danno @ 107:
There is more than one Sai Baba (it is not a personal name). The other main Sai Baba (of Shirdi), now dead, was a completely honorable Sattya Sai Baba.
Baba is similar to guru, and sattya sai is 'truth beholder,' or thereabouts. It's not a personal name, just as Mohandas Gandhi's name was not 'Mahatma' (=great soul)
Paul in LA @ 113:
We all know who we're talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba
You may know, but I doubt if any of you knew that this 'name' is not a name but a title, which was what I was pointing out.
And this is the 'Sai Baba' who should be recognized by that name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi
This "Sathyanarayana Raju" took the name 'Sai Baba' because he and his followers believe him to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi.
It is worth looking at the 'original' 'Sai Baba' (link) to see an actual religious person, instead of a happy con artist/miracle worker.
Romney is arguing his own discourse. He uses his religion as a religious test and it fails. So now he he argues the John Kerry moment when Kerry stated in the debate with Bush over abortion that, " I do not approve of abortion and it is wrong in my religion. Yet, to legislate my religious views of abortion on all Americans is not something I can do as President". (John Kerry (paraphrased).
Mitt's GOP has pushed the envelope on a religious test as George Bush used it. And used it knowingly what the constitution states. Did it for his own benefit and profit. Which Mitt Romney now attempts to replay for himself.
This is an ugly side of Republican politics that proves to me as a voter that they are not Americans but only snake oil peddlers with self profit in mind. Mitt's kids just can't wait to take Bush's daughters place as the White House brats.
Mitt's point of people ask me of my faith and I don't need to elaborate. But I'm Morman and I believe in Jesus- "Vote For Me "...........................! Have you ever heard one of these God fearing suday absentees yell out, " If I am lying let God strike me dead ". So maybe they do believe, eh?
Paul in LA @ 116:
Wow, those are both 'informative' articles in wikipedia. Thanks for the first link, Bookem.
Apparently even the 'second' Sai Baba is doing good works with some of the cash he absorbs. In a country with as many poor as India, this kind of fakir who attracts donations from foreign devotees can be a blessing to those poor, even if the method is spurious.
The only other point to make is that 'Shirdi Sai Baba' was known by no other name, only this title (his birth city, and the title). The other guy's name is known. Maybe he could have called himself 'Afro Sai Baba.'
DUD.
Works for the man. Works for the speech.
*
Romney needs to be pilloried for his "freedom requires religion" comment.
Is he saying that anyone not declaring a religion is subject to immediate imprisonment? Or was he simply pandering to evangelicals, by pretending that their religious authoritarianism is anything other than a threat to this country's founding principles?
As others have said... this was the polar-opposite of JFK's speech. JFK called for strict separation of church and state, and stated that one's religion is a private matter. Romney has stated that religion must not be separated from politics and that "freedom requires religion." In a saner time, Romney's candidacy would be over.
A decent speech wrote by a decent writer I suppose...A bit long towards the end..
So, let me say if I got his message straight...
If you don't share my particular religion, then: separation of church and state is good and I'm for it.
If you are a religious person in general, then separation of church and state is bad and I'm against it.
If you are not a religious person, fuck you.
Any questions?
Yes, Mr. Romney, I AM IN FACT trying to establish a new "religion" called secularism. If it scares you that I'm godless, just do what you always do - kneel in the dark with your eyes closed and mutter to yourself until you feel better about it.
I'm a diehard progressive Democrat. I only heard portions of his speech, but what I've heard would be enough to assuage some of the concerns the religious right has about Romney. He will probably gain some points on Giuliani. I agree that he kind of left non-religious people out in the cold. None of these people who oppose the true separation of church and state can explain what will happen to our school system, for example, when all of the religions clammer for equal time. The Religious Right wants intelligent design (nee creationism) to have equal time. Those aren't the only two ideas of how the world came to be. Since they don't want to deal with the logical conclusions of their points of view, it is apparent that the issue is one of those wedge issues that politicians can use to appeal to people who are so centered on their beliefs that they can't break out of them to conclude what would happen if everything would be taught in school. Some things should stay in religious institutions where they belong.
I remember when I was a kid in the Mormon church there was a joke circulating about Howard Hughes and his always having Mormon bodyguards.
When Hughes found out he was dying he called the Mormon prophet and said he wanted to covert. The prophet said fine. Hughes said he never was a Mormon before and the prophet said that was okay. Then Hughes said he wasn't ever really a nice person. The prophet said no problem. Hughes asked how that could be and the propet answered, "When there's a will there's a way."
Bookem Danno @ 96:
Their meteorologists?
Their predictions don't come true either.
Nancy S. @ 85:
Funny, I thought Romney had to give that speech because of the hatred and spite of people in his own party.
That transcript is so full of holes, you'd think it was edited by Bush himself. Theologically illiterate patronizing bastard!
Nancy S. @ 85:
Our hatred isn't towards people of faith, but people who hypocritically use that faith to manipulate & control people, stripping us of our Constitutional freedoms. Why do you hate America?
The Truth shall set you free, unless you are gay, poor, a minority, an immigrant, intelligent, or an unregistered voter.
A Quick History Lesson For Mitt
If I believed in something as wacky as Mormonism, like Mitt I also would not like to draw attention to this fact in speeches. The garden of eden in Missouri? Sure...
I believe that religion is the antithesis of freedom and in no way are the two somehow symbiotic. Religion imposes specific doctrine, freedom imposes specific responsibilities. You're a boob Mitt and you belong to the most profound cult of the 20th century.
"so long as they decide to help stop their co-religionists from raping their children and marrying their own daughters "
Polygamists are not LDS's co-religionists. Get educated.
"women as chattel"
That's not a part of LDS doctrine at all. Couples are admonished to be equal partners in a marriage.
"The garden of eden in Missouri? Sure…"
Explain to me how it's any wackier to believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri than to believe that the Garden of Eden was in Mesopotamia?
I thought it was a very inspiring, moving, and "American" speech. It was titled "Faith in America" and that's exactly what he addressed. Well done Mitt. It seems to me that many of you people would have been on the side of the Brittish back in 1774. Shame.
There was no pandering in this speech, this speech was about America and it's founding through faith. This was a speech about America, reminding us about Who We Are.
Excellent Speech.
You guys should really cheer up, life is not as bad as I have been reading in this thead.
Friends, sit back and enjoy watching the Republican candidates have to explain not only their religion, but their particular denominations within their religion, and how literally they believe every verse of the Bible. This is the bed they made for themselves and are now having to sleep in, and they deserve for that bed to be on fire right now.
However, as far as Romney mentioning "Mormon" just once, when did Bush ever say "Methodist" in a speech? Did you even know Bush was a Methodist? Probably not, because Methodism is NOT one of the crazy pentecostal denominations that are his base and everlasting support. Methodism is a denomination full of very nice people who hold dances for teenagers on weekends and have pot luck dinners in their basements. There's nothing Methodist about Bush, and he's never been asked to explain his Methodism. All he has to say is "wonder-working power" and "freedom is a gift from God" and he's good to go. So let's let up on Romney for just ONE thing... downplaying his Mormonism.
Now, beat up on him all you want for saying "freedom requires religion." That is s.c.a.r.y.
Because if Eve was a Missourian, she wouldn't have readily eaten the apple; she would first have said, "Show me."
Jason - "...it's (sic) founding through faith???????" Sorry, you're woefully incorrect. This nation was founded onthe principle of representational government, NOT on faith. The fact that there are references to a "creator" in writings of that time is merely a fucntion of the writing style of the time.
Read the Constitution (you know, the basis for our government)- not once is there ANY mention of God, a creator, divinity, Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, Tao or L. Ron Hubbard.
racqueteer @ 137:
It's interesting that GWB says he belongs to the United Methodist Church... so do Hillary Clinton (and Bill) and John Edwards.
On the other hand, who cares... we're not hiring a Sunday School teacher... we're looking for a good president.
I understand MIT wants to change their school's name.
Hooks @ 7:
Doubt if a "rock prayer" would make the top tier.
Jason @ 136:
It seems to me that you have your head up your ass. Shame.
He defines religion as good but disparages secularism by calling it a religion. He called in his "Mormon speech" but said nothing about the church or its teachings. Beside, Saudi Arabia is very religious but they hardly strike me as "free"
There is an excellent post on Jesus' General about Romney and his particular sect of the Mormon church. Interesting analysis.
Jason @ 136:
What speech were YOU listening to?
Login or Register to post comments.