Countdown: Torture, Lies and Videotape
By Logan Murphy Friday Dec 07, 2007 6:01pm
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On Friday's Countdown, Keith Olbermann spoke with Georgetown Law professor, Neal Katyal, who successfully argued the Hamdan case before the Supreme Court about the CIA obstructing justice by destroying interrogation video tapes depicting torture. Keith brings up what are basically multiple levels of crimes at play here.
Katyal condemns Attorney General Michael Mukasey for not immediately putting out a Preservation Order to ensure that nothing else is destroyed in light of these revelations, as Ed Meese did during the Iran Contra scandal. Considering the Bush administration's habit of illegally destroying millions of e-mails and covering up or withholding other evidence and documents -- that should be the bare minimum.
(Nicole) Larry Johnson thinks that the revelation of the destroyed "Torture Tapes" may lead to even bigger problems for this administration:
I do not dispute the possibility of retaliation by Al Qaeda against an undercover officer. In fact, it happened to Valerie Plame Wilson, but her identity was exposed by the Bush Administration. Then there is the question of tradecraft. Did the CIA officers participating in the interrogation/torture sessions allow themselves to be filmed so that they could be easily identified? I am skeptical. When the truth comes out I think we are likely to discover the people doing the questioning were contractors, not undercover Agency officers.
So did these tapes depict CIA or a contractor like Blackwater? Hmmm....just who are we trying to protect here? The timing of these revelations strike me as interesting as well. The White House and their mouthpieces in the media are certainly trying to question the credibility of our intelligence agencies right now. How does this play into that?
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Lie.
Will we see a CREDIBLE investigation?
Blackwaters before or after TILLMAN was offed
"If the President does it, it's not illegal."
If the U.S. does not prosecute shrub for war crimes following the next election, the U.S. will head downtown.
Anybody catch that part that it probably was not illegal to lie to the 911 commission because it may not be considered a formal investigation?
Largest crime in our country and there has never been a formal, criminal investigation. Only wars.
When this administration leaves office there will no records left. During his tenure Bush will have pulled off the rest of the Operation Gladio project.
People = 0
Corporate Government = Everything.
Sometimes I think this is a dream, and I'll wake up back in the seventies when it seemed we had started to set the country on the right track rule-of-law wise.
Here we go again. Another AG late to the game. Incompetent president incompetent subordinates.
Otay @ 8:
We slipped from that "Dream" to this Nightmare
Johnson pointed out in his article that the rationale for destroying the tapes is not credible, because anyone's face or other identifying characteristics can be blurred or altered if the tape is viewed.
Who's going to view these tapes, other than people with top security clearance? The reason given for destroying them is a joke.
If I were betting on this, I'd bet big time that these were contractors, probably Blackwater, doing the interrogating. Makes me wonder how many suicides at Gitmo have actually been suicides.
Filthy stinking cesspool of a coverup.
VietVet8666 @ 5:
We have to get rid of the present cabal of spineless Dems in Congress, many of them the same ones that let the Reagan and Bush senior off of the hook for Iran Contra et al, for that to happen.
Don't hold your breath.
Our favorite Democrat Nancy Pelosi says that impeachment is off the table.
First of all we need to understand the CIA works for big business. Not us little folk.
theres something ironic about a half literate Texan questioning the integrity of the "Intelligence" community.
burnt @ 15:
That would be hysterical if it wasn't true and so damn awful.
Any body else notice the confederate flag in the bckground in Trent Lott's office?
Seems to me that the principal reason for doing a crime(s) like this would be to attempt to innoculate Bush and Cheney personally from any evidence that could be used directly against them in war crimes tribunals. Protecting the thugs and their direct bosses who performed the tortures would be a secondary issue, if it was even considered at all( like our troops, they would be expendable throw-aways in Bush's eyes). If this is in fact the case, there would have to exist a paper or email trail originating from the WH ordering that it be done.
Well, its the beginning of their discrediting the CIA as an incompetent government agency that needs to be replaced with the Mr. Smith's Invisible Hand. Fitting for the Republicans who seem to believe in Invisible Ethics and a Divisible Population as well. Yes, it will be disgusting, disheartening and the signal of further fascism to come when we find that Congress nor the next administration will refuse to take up the issue of prosecuting the Chimp and his gang.
Moe Zilla @ 16:
I hadn't thought of it that way - the Shrub just doesn't trust anything with "intelligence" in it. He and "intelligence" have a feud going.
Otay @ 20:
You mean like the Religious Right vs Science?
BTW, I think Gen. Hayden belongs in prison. I'm also curious to see what kind of post hoc rationalizations those Democrats who voted for Mukasey are going to offer. It isn't like they didn't know that he was going to be but one more criminal enabler of Bush.
Where are the GD Democrats who are supposed to be doing their job? Joe Biden, who hasn't got a rat's arse chance of being president - where is he? Isn't he supposed to be holding hearings? WTF is wrong? Who got to them? Blackmail? Are there any Dems left that have the power to go after these effing...
Oh, wait. That's right. They are a bunch of lilly livered cowards. Is it going to take Chimpynutcakes humping his mama in the rose garden for someone to do something about this never ending nightmare? That smirking piece of filth is laughing at us. He can do anything and no one will stop him. And we haven't seen the worst yet.
burnt @ 15:
THIS!!!...was good.....cudos to ya.
Paul @ 22:
Don't be shy. They all belong in prison. Instead they will imprison the innocents.
The Democrats are gutless because they have their hand in the till also. We need honest people in Washington......good luck to us all on that.
What next??? Every day, something else! Never good!
The fallout from destroying the tapes is not as great as revealing the contents of the tapes. Bush wins again.
Just as a mind exercise:
Suppose you're speaker of the house and are invited to the white house ,just you and your significant other, and over cherries jubilee the pres says there's been a lot of intercepted chatter about a nuclear incident, possibly in your district. The pres tells you he's working hard on this 24/7 ,can't do or think about anything else and so far they've held this group at bay.
Now if he would have to spend all his time defending himself againest impeachment and since he can't handle two things at once he might not be able to defend againest that possible attack because he's preocupied.
Now as speaker do you take a on chance your extended family that lives in that area and all of your constitutents by begining an impeachment hearing because after all 9-11 changed everything.
Paul @ 22:
One thing that really jumped out at me from this video is that Prof. Katyal said how disappointed he was with Mukasey already. He said that Mukasey should have issued an order of preservation immediately (Ed Meese did this in Iran Contra) and that while he and Olbermann were speaking, all kinds of shredding must have been going on. Yes, I would love to rub Feinstein's and Schumer's noses in this.
[sitemonitor: how about C&L's post?] http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/12/06/countdown-special-comment-the-n...
Doggiebobo @ 31:
My apologizes....Was not aware that this had been posted on C&L thead.
Regardless...it is a video that ALL should watch; in fact should be mandatory
[sitemonitor: we ALWAYS have the Special Comments.]
how soon before election day and inaugration day? it can't come soon enough for me.
This pervert has kids, I feel sorry for them. They don't have a chance, with a big mouth knowitall, loofa boy for a dad.
Jeezuz, what will it take to get an impeachment around here!
tjb @ 29:
Actually, it sounds more like an exercise from Cheney Blackmail 101 instead of a mind exercise.
Ron @ 35:
Sadly, my friend, in a universe filled with few absolutes impeachment will absolutely positively beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt never happen....not ever to this president! The american sheeple want it that way.
Mukasey's an errand boy for the Pinochetists
Looky who's errand GIRL, who does her very best keeping impeachment "off the table".
Prepare to freak:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/8/202552/338
it's rumsfeld in the tapes.
If all the architects of the Iraq war are not tried for war crimes this will be the end of America. We will be and should be viewed by the rest of the world as a rogue nation. What Bush & Cheney have done is nothing less than genocide. And they have robbed the American people blind and have made a mockery of our laws and our Constitution. Will the Democrats even with a much larger margin in the House & Senate after 08 do anything about anything? I would guess the answer would be NO. Damn every one of them to the same Hell as Bush and his Dick.
Until there are 17 Republican Senators who are willing to fairly consider the evidence and convict a sitting rethug prez and VP (for the 2/3 majority), impeachment is not only a pointless exercise, but destructive - as acquittal will allow the claim of complete vindication and set the precedent that nothing Bush has done is criminal under the law!
Not only that, but the same Supreme Court that appointed (strengthened by another hardline Federalist) this fascist will be ruling on production of evidence - quite likely setting dangerous precedents regarding executive power and privilege.
I personally believe that Bush, Cheney and a few others of his administration should be tried for treason and subject to the Constitutionally provided punishment. As a practical matter - at this time - it just AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!
A premature - and doomed to failure - attempt would only further damage our democracy.
Remember that the Senate was unable even to muster the votes to censure that lying SOS Gonzolez.
just who are we trying to protect here? The timing of these revelations strike me as interesting as well. The White House and their mouthpieces in the media are certainly trying to question the credibility of our intelligence agencies right now.
Whoah. Very, very good.
FedUpFred @ 36:
Sometimes, in my worst nightmares and most paranoid (and creative) moments, I think that Cheney and Bush have threatened to nuke an American city should they ever be impeached. That might stay my hand if I were dealing with The Psycho and The Moron.
Read Dr. Hillhouse for more on the outsourced nature of the modern CIA.
http://www.thespywhobilledme.com/the_spy_who_billed_me
What creeps me out the most about Blackwater is that the head guy is the brother of Betsy Devos who is married to Dick Devos. Dick Devos ran for gov in the last race here in MI. He lost but is threatening to run again in the next election. Living in Michigan and seeing the length and breadth this administration has gone to help/protect Blackwater, it makes me wonder how far they'll go to help Betsy become first lady in the gov. mansion. Tangled webs.
ABOVE THE LAW. The best think that could ever happen to the 330 million people of the United States Of Shamerica would be, to make sure this ideology never comes close to showing its ugly head again. The only way to do it is, set precident by impeaching this President.
How absolutely down the scale of human importance is Clintons BJ compared to wrongfully invading countries, the subsequent murder of thousands of innocent civilians and the totalitarian ideology of "you're with us or against us".
Listenening to GATES mutter the words "if you think we need the consent of the UN to do what we feel right, you'll be joining the same ash-heap that Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union went into"....is convincinly clear where the mindset of this countries leaders is. And you expect the rest of the world to respect this. Who are we to have disdain for? They didn't vote themselves in............2 times.
It's the American people who have to stand on each corner one day and say "Fuck You George"! The people got him in & the people must get him outand iuntil then....you're essentially nothing nothing but harbourers, sorry to say!
Moe Zilla @ 16:
I know what you're saying but truthfully, (and I'm not Dr. Phil) it almost sounds like what has become the problem with the rest of Shamerica...you're in denial. It's not ironic....it's verry, very sad. And it's sad that one man is alloed to hold so many people of "the intellectual community" in the palm of his hand.
It's all media. There isn't a strong enough voice in the leaders of the media....because the media is in fear also. How this little fricking HILTLER does it, is beyond me.
I have a challenge.
I wish someone would write a song called "One Ounce Of Lead" and get the point home to this peckerhead to just how mortal he is after all.
Dixie Chicks & Pink have done admiral jobs but it hasn't fizzed President A-Hole.
I guess it will take someone to say, fuck it....here's my song, go ahead...put me in jail.
Absolutely brilliant explaination of hoe the NIE report on Iran is "besides the point". Hilarious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fyiGTJqzWU
I love it, finally the whole shit-house of lies is falling in on itself. While we cannot undo the damage that has been done, we can cut out the most agressive cancer although we should have impeached.
Mukasey is Skull and Bones all the way being in Bushes class at Yale. His son is lead attorney in Ghoulianis law firm specializing n 'Corporate Defense'. We know where this a-hole fits into the corporate plans for control of Government. Mukasey wil never do anything to hurt a fellow bonesman (it's against the oath, ala J. Kerry). His approval is another example of most democrats total inability to do anything that is in the best interest of the people.
The timing of thetapes is crucial in debasing Bushes claim of 'we do not torture'. The tapes are pre-this statement so Bush lies again.
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