ACLU sues CIA for Contempt in Torture Tape Destruction
By bluegal Tuesday Dec 11, 2007 2:34pm
This token Christian has to say it...thank God for the ACLU. (Yes, I mean that, Bill-O.)
The American Civil Liberties Union today filed a motion asking a federal judge to hold the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in contempt, charging that the agency flouted a court order when it destroyed at least two videotapes documenting the harsh interrogation of prisoners in its custody....
“The interrogation techniques employed by our government raise fundamental questions of human rights and decency,” said Arthur Eisenberg, New York Civil Liberties Union Legal Director. “The CIA cannot avoid those questions by simply destroying the evidence.” Read more...
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The lawyers who work at the ACLU are the most patriotic members of our country. Praise be that they exist to save us from ourselves and homegrown zealots.
FINALLY SOMEONE DID WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE....I am sorry but I am still waiting to HEAR that Someone in the govt finds their balls and says that WAR CRIMES HAVE INDEED BEEN COMMITTED AND EVIDENCE DESTROYED...thank you for letting this be known C&L.....and ACLU...
The ABA just named Gonzo "Lawyer of the Year".
Really, this black humor is going a little too far.
LibertyLover @ 1:
They are also bravest in serving clarity to what is right....
Hells yeah. Glad my donations are going to good use.
GO ACLU!!!!! Sue the dog shit out of these WAR CRIMINALS!!!
earl @ 3:
remember the video when bush was looking for wmds in the oval office? that is what this reminds me of.
“The CIA cannot avoid those questions by simply destroying the evidence.”
Hell yes they can. They just did. :(
earl @ 3:
The U.S. is going to be a frightening place to live the next 10 years.
Keep in mind I was the ultimate optimist in American Ingenuity and Integrity until Dec 2000. I can see through this bullshit going down.
Some late-breaking fake news: CIA To Release Newly-Discovered Interrogation Tapes … on Betamax!
Rusty Shackleford @ 5:
Me too. The one organization I give to every month. I don't always agree with some of the cases they take on but I support their ambitions to see laws are respected, no matter who is involved.
below_me @ 7:
Actually it should be the APA naming him "Amnesiac of the Year/Decade/Century" ....for that he is deserving.
The CIA's phones are ringing off the hook (That's figuratively, actually, they're getting off their users).
The lower-level guys are all excited, they're passing the message to the top spook, that Gonzales phoned in with his opinion that the ACLU is illegal.
That'll save their asses.
If the ACLU has never pissed you off, you probably haven't been paying attention - but nobody (except possibly me) loves the constitution more than they do.
Don Davis @ 10:
I wish I could safely say Humor will save us from what lays ahead. But I'm not sure thats the case at this point.
The next eagerly-awaited ACLU move.
They're going to sue Bush for 'Contemptible'.
Just because he is.
Clues clues clues . . . . magnifying glasses out . . . . stone turners armed . . . forward
Maybe all the players really know that keeping the ship afloat until Christmas is really the best they can hope for. Christmas means a lot in this country. It represents all Americans' old hope that miracles can happen. Bums turn out to be Santa Claus. Old curmudgeons are transformed overnight into loving uncles. Angels save us when we jump despairingly into icy torrents. And Goldman Sachs executives pass out multi-million-dollar checks to the wizards who "innovated" an ingenious way for the rest of their country to commit financial suicide.
How about a class action suit against Arbusto and the Gang?
UnEasyOne @ 14:
I totally agree. That's why I support them. They have no agenda other than seeing the constitution is kept in one piece and respected for what it is.
earl @ 18:
I suppose the Lawyers would make money. I don't know about us.
Uh Oh... Bill 'O aint gonna be happy 'bout this....
No sirree
You're not gona believe this, but Alberto Gonzales has been named Lawyer of the year!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071212/ap_on_go_ot/gonzales_lawyer_of_the_year
MrJJ wrote on December 12, 2007 1:06 PM:
The new and improved DOJ ??? Dont't think so....
MuKasey.."I think the Justice Department is capable of doing whatever it appears needs to be done," Mukasey said. "The question of a special prosecutor is the most hypothetical of hypotheticals, and that isn't going to be faced until it happens. And if it has to be, it will be."
Mukasey may have a conflict of interest problem already, and may have to call upon a Special Prosecutor.
Jose Padilla’s lawyers argued before the Florida Federal Court that Abu Zubaydah was tortured into saying Padilla was an al Qaeda associate. The DOJ dismissed Padilla’s allegations as “meritless,” asserting Padilla’s legal team could not prove that Abu Zubaydah had been tortured. Well, it’s clear now that they certainly COULD have, if the tapes of the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah had been made available!
Now here is where Mukasey’s role comes into question. U.S. District Judge Mukasey, now attorney general, was the one who signed the warrant used by the FBI to arrest Padilla in May 2002. Court records show the warrant relied in part on information obtained from Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation. So we have a problem Houston.
The Attorney General can only issue a warrant based upon legally obtained evidence, and confessions under torture are certainly not “legally obtained”. So either Mukasey was misrepresented the evidence, and would be liable to be potentially a party in those who were presented with “perjured evidence”; or he knew that torture was used in obtaining the confession and ignored it.
In either case he is unsuitable to run an investigation, as it will, inevitably, involved himself. Thus a Special Prosecutor is necessary.
Interesting dot connecting from MrJJ
What did your auntie do to you?
Thank God I joined the ACLU after a life time of hesitation. These are the people who are going to do something about it, not Congress, and not (said with finger down throat) "internal" investigations.
I think we could spend the next decade taking Bush & Co. to court, investigating and prosecuting. We may not even know after that exactly what they've done to us.
I'd like to hear the story of the former CIA agent who was literally on every news show yesterday telling us that lives had been saved because of waterboarding,, but that he didn't think it should be used. He seemed like too neat of a package to me.
Oh Oh. We have a bigger legal problem that the Torture Tapes.
Bush's impeachment may be truly 'off the table'. In fact, impossible. Maybe the ACLU can help, but it's doubtful.
Some intrepid reporter on the C&L payroll, was poking through some old H.W. Bush papers, and found that the very first act he did as president, was pardon his dumb son.
'I hereby pardon George W. Bush for all the stupid, criminal, outrageous, illegal, idiotic, immoral acts he has performed in the past, and all the stupid, criminal, outrageous, illegal, idiotic, immoral acts he may perform in the future'.
No one ever uncovered this before, because pardons are usually done on the last few days of a presidency. H.W. did it on the first day, first thing!
Talk about prescient! The old man sure knew his sh*t, and his son.
.
Hey republican CIA staff
Hillters staff thought they could get away with it too
NUREMBURG repukes is coming to a summer TV soon
h ah ah hah ah ahahha
Okay first off, the ACLU is and has been ruining America. I hope they go the way Air America did. Yes i am a blog crasher and i revel in crashing the sites of the lefty liberal defeatists who want to turn America into a modern day Gomorrah.
News flash! Water in your face is not torture. Oh my the poor terrorist had to endure water in his face for a whole 35 seconds, the poor lad! He left his interrogation with nothing more than a hurt ego. No blood was drawn and was not disfigured. Why are you all crying about water in your face, jeez i remember my brothers and sisters doing this to each other with the garden hose, yes it is uncomfortable and that is the idea.
I could see all of you raising a stink if they were lopping off his fingers with garden shears but c'mon it is only freakin water.
Whats next, should our troops load their guns with cotton balls. Maybe we should offer the captured enemy a menu so they can choose the method of interrogation. I can see it now; "Menu Options" 1.Electric shock 2. Finger nail removal 3. Castration 4. Finger lopping 5. Waterboarding. Which one are you going to choose, hmmmmm tough choice huh?
Get real, these guys are getting off easy and waterboarding is not torture,it is merely a temporary inconvenience. What a bunch of sissy whiners you are, i only hope that there even more new and humane methods to be disclosed yet. I suppose you think being injected with truth serum is torture too or would rather have your head aerated with an electric drill?
I think the ultimate torture would be for the captured enemy to be locked up in room with you guys have have to endure listening to all of your sissy and weak cry baby rants, waaaa!
I am sure if you then gave the prisoner a rope he would gladly hang himself.
Thank goodness the Democratic Party is dying out for good, just a little longer and goodbye. You guys are so insignificant now that you are merely good talk show fodder. Just look at your miserable record, there aint enough space in the blogosphere to record all their failures. I am so thankful to have found out that McCarthy was found to be solidly accurate and truthful on all accounts of what transpired during the Roosevelt and Truman eras. The Dems were selling us out to the Communists and allowed their infiltration to the highest levels of the US goverment! Thank God for Mc Carthy and thank God for Ann Coulter! How do you expect the nation to ever trust the Dems again! The Clinton era was a total national disgrace. I will bet my last dollar that you will never see Hillary as president and hopefully the Dems will forgo their Socialist views in the future if they wish to have any significance.
Next~
If the court finds the CIA in contempt, what happens then? How do you punish an organization?
Tom Bryant
You are a despicable human being.
Tom Bryant, the CIA yesterday said that water boarding is torture.
They said that it is just one of a number of forms of torture that they employ.
They openly admit that they torture lots of people for the Bush administration.
Why would you want to deny it?
navyswan @ 31:
Explain what is despicable, the part about alluding that i may have ever sprayed water in my sisters face with a garden hose when we were children. OOOh so terrible... Surely it cant be the Ann Coulter part, I hope she runs for congress, a shoe-in for sure.
Tom Bryant @ 33:
You are a pro-torture monster that will be seen in history as being just like the pro-torturing monsters that have come before you (right beside the followers of Pol-Pot, Hitler, etc.) And Coulter will be regarded as an American Goebbels.
Tom Bryant @ 33:
Ann Coulter for Congress. LOL!
It could happen though. People like her rose in the ranks of the Nazi Party just fine.
Did you ever hold her sister under water until she passed out? Then revived her and did it again and again for weeks? I would guess you have done that.
Weaseldog @ 32:
Because if all you cry babies have your way we will all be speaking Arabic
Tom Bryant @ 33:
Remember too that water boarding is a prolonged ordeal. A quick spray in the face isn't enough. The CIA may spend several hours or more water boarding one of their victims.
If your sister was mentally and physically exhausted, and broken, then you didn't do it right.
Tom Bryant @ 36:
Ok, propagandist. If you actually believe that line of bull, then I am guessing you are in the military risking your life to make sure this doesn't happen. What branch are you in? Or are you just another proto-fascist bitch spewing propaganda?
Welcome to the new channel on C&L: TomDrivel:
Tom Bryant @ 29:
This is meaningless: The issue isn't "torture", but "abuse": Geneva prohibits all abuse.
Oh my the poor terrorist had to endure water in his face for a whole 35 seconds, the poor lad! He left his interrogation with nothing more than a hurt ego. No blood was drawn and was not disfigured. Why are you all crying about water in your face, jeez i remember my brothers and sisters doing this to each other with the garden hose, yes it is uncomfortable and that is the idea.
More fear mongering: "Look over there," as Tom makes more mischief.
Indeed, the troops have shredded the Constitution, so it shouldn't be hard for them to find plenty of cotton, Tom:
Most interrogators do ask POWs how they would like to be abused -- in the Third Reich:
Why do you want to offer prisoners of war a "choice":
Geneva prohibits all abuse; whether something is or isn't "torture" is irrelevant:
You like "humane" abuse: That's still illegal.
What does this have to do with your goals:
Tom, you seem to be whining again:
Tom sounds like he's advocating violence:
How about that youth-vote-support for the DNC: Going higher, thanks to the abuser-in-Cheap:
Tom pretends he's talking to "insignifcant" people: Why do you spend your time on "insignificants"?
This is called being vague, without discussing a solution or better approach:
Tom, could you explain this: How can "all" accounts be "accurate" despite the problems with accusations-without-evidence:
Nice distraction from the ICC review of these war crimes:
Drivel:
The GOP has been in charge of alleged war crimes; but Tom can only ask:
What will the war crimes defense be? "Clinton, Clinton, Clinton":
Not clear what this has to do with the CIA abuse of prisoners, but maybe Tom can explain it:
Next~
Thank you for your wisdom.
Weaseldog @ 35:
I am not pro-torture its just a fact of mankind. If there is a form of interrogation needing to be used i see this as a good alternative, it seems much more humane than other methods dont you think? If not, then which methods do you think would work?
Tom Bryant @ 36:
Oh, by telling lies your saving us from taking lessons in Farsi?
How does that work? How is your inability to admit the truth and the fact that you tell a lot of lies gonna save us from being bilingual?
navyswan @ 38:
He'd can never serve in the military. He has hemorrhoids.
"Thank God for the ACLU"
Hmm... If a plane crashes and 1 person survives I'm not the type to thank any deity.
Weaseldog @ 37:
The freakin terrorist broke only after 35 seconds, where are you getting this hours and hours BS?
Waterboarding was one of the war crimes that the US charged Japanese soldiers with after WWII. It was a war crime and torture then and it still is now.
Weaseldog @ 42:
Surely we cannot depend on you wanks to defend our freedom to blog. You are too busy trying to pander to the enemy. Please dont try to join the military, just stay home and blog at your moms house while eating peanut butter from a jar and let the real men fight the wars.
navyswan @ 45:
Wow, so we did learn something from that war. Those Japs were so creative wernt they? I really like how they can make almost anything from bamboo.
Tom Bryant @ 46:
Are you talking about yourself?
Tom Bryant @ 40:
To what end? And to whom?
If you remember the Gitmo pictures, they proved that we rape and torture children. to what end? Well torture is the point.
Torture has been proven time and time again that it doesn't work well to gain information, but instead trains people to respond as the interrogator wishes. It trains people to confess so that they can be railroaded through the courts.
The US worked to draft and push the Geneva Convention to help improve the odds that our soldiers when captured would not be tortured. Also, it is a fact that an enemy that expects to be tortured is more likely to fight to the death and engage in suicide runs, when defeated. An enemy that has an expectation of being treated well is more likely to surrender when faced with overwhelming odds.
I believe that you are pro-torture. I believe that you are defending it, because you like the idea of it.
Keep in mind that if we torture then we are sending a message to the enemy that it is expected that they will torture our soldiers when captured.
If you believe that we should torture POWs, then you're arguing that the enemy should torture our soldiers when captured.
Why do you want our troops tortured if captured?
Tom Bryant @ 44:
I don't watch 24.
DoJ Memoranda concludes waterboarding is torture.
Why wasn't Moo-Crazy asked about this DoJ opinion; what is the plan of Congress/Media/blogs to ask Moo-Crazy about this DoJ Opinion?
earl @ 12:
Amnesiac - what does that mean again?
I don't recall.
Weaseldog @ 49:
No dude i am not pro torture, but it is a fact of war. I agree that it is counter productive as i am sure most people would say anything if they can avoid having their pinky snipped off. I am just saying that there should be some approved methods we can use, otherwise we are somewhat powerless during an interrogation and the enemy knows this. I am stating that waterboarding should be allowed.
Torture is wrong, period. And Water torture has long been considered a banned form of torture.
We are signatories to the Geneva Conventions. We must treat all prisoners humanely and within international human rights laws.
Tom Bryant @ 53:
Guess that things like the Geneva Convention are inconvenient for you modern day fascists, huh Tom? The only fact about war is what William Tecumseh Sherman said---it is all hell. People like you with your paranoid delusions are mentally ill. The ends justify the means---you are one morally bankrupt bastard.
Hey y'all dont forget that we are not fighting a standing uniformed army, we are fighting an insurgency. They in no way shape or form are going to comply with any rules of warfare. The Geneva Conventions apply to standard battlefield agreements between nations. We are not at war with Iraq or Afghanistan, we and they are at war with an insurgency within their own borders. Please do not even think for a second that the enemy is going to afford us any mercy that the Geneva Conventions attempts to instill. I really dont think that they will cease torturing out troops just because we are trying to be the good guys and are sharing our MRE's with prisoners. This is not a conventional war, the world order is evolving and maybe none of the old mantras are going to have much affect on the radical Jihadists.
Cool.
bmw 528 @ 56:
Tsk, tsk, your name calling shows weakness, c'mon this is out of line. We are fellow bloggers and should keep the name calling clean. We agree to flesh out our feelings and maybe our efforts can make the world a better place. Saying "bastard" has no merit.
Tom Bryant @ 57:
Nice try to reinvent the intention of the Geneva Convention, but I don't think so. Take your paranoid war fantasies somewhere else. Or get your sorry ass down to the Army recruiting office and put your money where your mouth is, Rambo.
Tom,
Join up or shut up. If you believe that this threat is so dire then you must be willing to put your life on the line to fight for what you believe in. If not, then you are just spewing empty rhetoric.
Tom Bryant @ 57:
What never ceases to amaze me is how you right-wing-nuts have no concept of why they are even fighting against the USA in the first place. And no, it's not because they hate your freedoms.
How evil do you think the "land of the free" needs to become? How long until you are as bad, or worse, than those you fight? Do you have any limits in mind? Already, I haven't an ounce of respect left for your country. How long till your "allies" become your "enemies"?
Tom Bryant @ 59:
You are supporting TORTURE but you have a problem with the word bastard??????
You are a screwed up individual.
Tom Bryant @ 59:
Fair enough Tom. If you want to make the world a better place, work for peace instead of glorifying war and justifying torture by saying the ends justify the means, which it certainly does not.
Oh, I didn't realize that Tom Bryant (probably related to Anita-- that charming wench) was a hard-core troll. What I did note is he's a total dweeb, from his first pos. Especially when he launched right into, "News flash!" Uh, yeah, thanks for enlightening us, you f*cking moron.
Congress should have been the first, but I'm glad an outside source is investigating the blow-back from an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iran.
Just looking at this crime on its most basic level, how dare these repug criminal jerks destroy info that we paid for (taxpayer.) This isn't their property.
Of course the big picture is:
repugs are like rudy
MrJJ wrote on December 12, 2007 1:06 PM:
"The new and improved DOJ ??? Dont't think so....
MuKasey.."I think the Justice Department is capable of doing whatever it appears needs to be done," Mukasey said. "The question of a special prosecutor is the most hypothetical of hypotheticals, and that isn't going to be faced until it happens. And if it has to be, it will be."
Mukasey may have a conflict of interest problem already, and may have to call upon a Special Prosecutor.
Jose Padilla’s lawyers argued before the Florida Federal Court that Abu Zubaydah was tortured into saying Padilla was an al Qaeda associate. The DOJ dismissed Padilla’s allegations as “meritless,” asserting Padilla’s legal team could not prove that Abu Zubaydah had been tortured. Well, it’s clear now that they certainly COULD have, if the tapes of the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah had been made available!
Now here is where Mukasey’s role comes into question. U.S. District Judge Mukasey, now attorney general, was the one who signed the warrant used by the FBI to arrest Padilla in May 2002. Court records show the warrant relied in part on information obtained from Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation. So we have a problem Houston.
The Attorney General can only issue a warrant based upon legally obtained evidence, and confessions under torture are certainly not “legally obtained”. So either Mukasey was misrepresented the evidence, and would be liable to be potentially a party in those who were presented with “perjured evidence”; or he knew that torture was used in obtaining the confession and ignored it.
In either case he is unsuitable to run an investigation, as it will, inevitably, involved himself. Thus a Special Prosecutor is necessary."
What is clear is that we have tortured. We have arrested/imprisoned/tortured even US citizens based on intel we got from tortured captives. The man we are looking to to investigate this mess is in it up to his eyeballs. He wouldn't say waterboarding was torture in front of Congress because he had previously signed an arrest warrant based on evidence he knew came from waterboarding a suspect.
How did that case turn out? Oh yeah, Padilla wasn't convicted as a "dirty bomber" or for a plot to blow up an apartment building as he had been accused of in public by the previous AG. No he was convicted for one count of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim overseas. One count of conspiracy to provide material support for terrorists. And one count of material support for terrorist.
I'm not saying Mr. Padilla was not a terrorist threat. But his entire case was a joke based on a house of cards atop an arrest warrant based on a torture confession.
Edwin @ 65:
Yeah, unlike your Anita Hill. Oh and you can go to Vanna if you need to buy a vowel.
Machismo is the disguise of the coward.
Tom Bryant @ 68:
No. The bigot Anita Bryant. But maybe you're too young...
Torture was and is the deal breaker for me. Disgusting.
...
Tom Bryant @ 57:
No, Tom, you're right--this is not a conventional war. It's an occupation of a foreign country. You're going to have to point to who the enemy is.
By the way, did you know that the site team can trace your IP address? Tell me, are you doing this in an official capacity or is this just some off-work enjoyment for you?
It seems like the ACLU is the only thing we have left. The democrats have lost all courage to get things done. They are busy caving in to Bush and the republicans. What IDIOTS! The ACLU needs our support.
The Dems are not afraid of losing the next election because when marshall law goes into effect they will be flown out of the country faster then that king from Kuwitt when the Iraqi's atacked thier country.
Ask some-one who has been waterboarded if water-boarding is torture.I think they might say YES.
The following statement misses the point on Geneva: they are obligations on the detaining power; whether a person is or is not "protected" by Geneva is something that can only be decided by a court.
The US -- on accusation alone -- cannot assert, "They are not complying with the laws of war"; but then -- without a trial -- deny the Geneva protections to the POW.
Also, some of the GTMO prisoners -- on accusation alone, without evidence, by people with a grudge -- are detained despite no connection with any warfare. Whether that warfare (defense of AFghanistan) is illegal or not is a separte issue. The principle of levee in masse does not require the defender (Taliban or others) to wear a uniform when the US quickly invades, and there is not time for the defenders to organize per Geneva requirements.
It is false to say the Geneva "only" applies to battle. No, it also applies to civilians. This statement shows an alleged reckless disregard for Geneva:
Tom Bryant @ 57:
The "enemey" isn't just on the battlefiled, but also those who assent to illegal warfare. Please stop lecuturing anyone about the Geneva conventions until you show you understand them. You do not. WShether the war is or is not convention has no bearing on whether the US -- as an illegally occupying nation in Iraq; or a detaining power at GTMO/E. Europe -- does or does not have Geneva obligations: It does.
Stop making excuses for the US to pretend it is not bound by Geneva. It is. To assert, "it is not bound" is an alleged war crime by a lawyer who should know making such a statement is frivolous. You demonstrate not legal understanding of the laws of war. Go away to the ICC and prepare to defend yourself.
Rush to War @ 74:
I'd agree with you, except that the Dems are clearly terrified of losing the next election. Or they're terrified of something. Their own shadows, maybe. Hell, I don't know ... but they're a squirrelly bunch if ever there was one. At least the Repubs will look you in the eye when they lie to you. Then Dems are too busy pussy-footing around. No offense to any cats who many be reading.
But as for the martial law thing, you're right on. Hey, anyone wanna set up a pool - guess the day that martial law is declared in the US? My money's on 17 January 2008. Any takers?
As a 51 year old Catholic with 13 years of parochial education, I thank God for the ACLU on a daily basis.
Nicole Belle @ 72:
Funny how Tommy Boy has gone strangely silent. Must be another one of those cut and run cowards.
Tom Bryant @ 59:
Sorry for the "bastard" comment. You're just morally bankrupt.
Waterboarding is suffocation. If they used it on me, I would make shit up to get
them to stop. False confessions will get you nowhere.
luther @ 81:
True dat. I'd buy the whole "torture produces actionable intelligence" schtick, except that the Inquisition was able to get people to confess to having ridden naked on the backs of flying goats to attend midnight orgies with devils and animals. I mean, I guess if you believed that people really did ride on flying goats to midnight orgies with devils and animals, then it could be considered "actionable intelligence"... but if, like me, you think that the "witches" probably said those things to get them to stopstopstOPSTOPPLEASEFORTHELOVEOFGODSTOP, then it makes the whole thing seem a bit far-fetched.
Yeah I kinda wonder what Tom's workplace internet policy is, ahem. Is trolling on left-wing blogs part of his job? Sorry to be all "Cavuto", here, but I am just asking the question.
FORCE COMGRESS TO IMPEACH. Call Nancy Pelosi @1-202-225-0100 and DEMAND IMPEACHMENT.
kudos to the ACLU. I hope everyone becomes a member
EMPY @ 67:
They believe what they did to Hussein and his family was a joke too.
A poignant article. A society can't exist based on what the US is now.
The repug snowball is getting larger and and picking up more steam.
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Can someone please suck chimpy's dick so we can impeach his monkey ass? Thanking you in advance.
"...torture is illegal in the United States and the House is due to vote on Thursday specifically to outlaw waterboarding. The measure would require all U.S. interrogators to comply with the Army Field Manual, which does not permit waterboarding." -Thomas Ferraro - Reuters 12/12/07
Will Congress at long last finally say something here? Would bush veto it if passed?
bmw 528 @ 79:
Oh this is good. Here we are on a blog in regards to how great the ACLU is and here you are saying that my IP addressed can be traced. So can yours you big hypocrite! What are you gonna do, hunt me down and then waterboard me?! You guys seem to hate any dissenting views so what is the point of this site, jeez you guys need to get off the Kool-Aid drinking.
I was silent as i was busy sharpening my knife and perfecting my waterboarding skills. Unlike you i do have life and job beyond blogging from a cubicle in my mothers basement.
Oh and dont forget that the phrase "cut and run cowards" was coined by the Republicans. Go get your own phrases.
I do this at my pleasure and i am not blogging for any opposing party nor am i being paid to frustrate you. Boy you guys sure are paranoid, i.e. the Kool-Aid, get off the Kool-Aid...save yourselves!!!
You guys are such fun
Nicole Belle: You're commenting on our site. Your IP number (which by the way, still shows your work address, which may not be an opposing party but certainly one we've chronicled in less than flattering terms. I can't believe they want you commenting on lefty blogs for your pleasure on company time) is registered when you make a comment. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by being hypocritical. I will assume for the time being that the comment about sharpening knives and waterboarding (especially after saying that you can trace my IP number) is a joke, however, it may be taken as a threat, and I'm fairly confident your employer doesn't want you making threats on online forums. That would be bad publicity, and I don't think they want MORE bad p.r. right now. If you attempt to make another lame joke like that again that may be construed as a threat, your email address, IP number and all other information will be forwarded to an attorney.
I have a feeling that US citizens will soon learn why the second ammendment is so important.
And that would be in a very BAD way.
The repugs did the impossible- They murdered the "Grand experiment" after more than 200 years of success.
I pray to god that our second revolution is peaceful like the second USSR revolution.
But I doubt that.
I wonder how that troll will feel, when the next honest president asks the cia to go pick him up :)
while he is waiting for the knock at the door meyabe this will help him prepare for whats in store 8)
Beautiful (live) - Christina Aguilera
Tom Bryant @ 88:
Okay you win. I will never blog on Crooks and Liars again. Who are you anyway? It was interesting while it lasted. I was not threatening anyone and i am sorry if you perceived it that way, it was not my intent.
Also the searching and giving of my IP address and any personal info is against the law and the terms set forth by Crooks and Liars.
Unless you represent Crooks and Liars you cannot gain access to this info.
Bye
[I think you need to read the commenting policy again. I see nothing set forth by C&L. And I'd be interested in seeing the law to which you are referring. Also read Nicole's post (She is a contributor here). She said the site team has access to your IP-Sitemonitor]
Tom Bryant @91
You really don't know this how this works, do you? I guess you're not a professional. I am one of the administrators of C&L. Your first clue should have been that I can comment within your comment. Only someone affiliated with the site can do that. You can see my name all over the site. I'm not breaking any laws by warning you that threats that you make will result in you being reported. You, however, would be breaking a law if you continued with your threats, even if you did not mean them. You know how uptight the Department of Homeland Security can be.
Further, I have so far respected your privacy within the forum to not make it clear where and from what company you are commenting, only to let you know that WE know.
However, I have no compunction about contacting your employer as listed on your IP address and letting them know how you're using your professional internet connection. They may be very interested in some of your comments.
Nicole Belle @ 92:
I really do not think this is necessary as i said i would never post a blog on your site again. The last two days were the first time i have ever blogged anywhere before. I knew beforehand that i am not to ever threaten anyone and to keep it clean. Sorry that i crossed the line. As far as my personal feelings go that i have posted on your site the previous two days are mine and do not believe it is necessary to enlighten my employer. I have learned a lesson and will know better if i ever post blogs again at other locations. I am sorry to have offended you or any of the other members. I hope you will accept my apology and let it end here and not continue any further. Regards
Tom Bryant @ 93:
HAHAHAHAHA
Two-faced repug folded like a lawn chair. Typical.
Blogging is owning and managing a website.
Posting (I think) is placing an article on the website.
Commenting is what those of us in the peanut gallery do
Edwin @ 65:
Anita Bath.
Whatever happened to sodium pentothal anyway?
boosh poured it all over his freedom fries?
Hey Tom,
If waterboarding's no big deal, why don't you enlist and take your ass down to Bragg. After you spend a few weeks in SERE, tell me how you feel about it. I lasted 45 seconds. I consider myself a mentally tough individual. People like you make me sick. There are two groups of people that know about military operations. Soldiers, and the enemy. Everyone else has an uninformed opinion. (That's you). So before you go spouting off at the mouth about things you know nothing at all about. Remember, you're a little girl who's never fought with the enemy. You dont know squat.
AngryVet
11H/18B4O
Tom Bryant @ 29:
impeachbushnow @ 28:
I must have missed the news brief detailing the mass executions of his own countries people. Can you please elaborate? I mean, if you are going to insinuate that Bush is like Hitler, or his staff for that matter, then you must have some pretty amazing data to back this up. But if you think that this president is the first in the history of this country to deceive the public, whether he believes it is in the best interests or not, then you are as stupid as you sound. I believe you are the latter.
How is Bush like Hitler?
You dont know your history do you? Since I dont have time to point out the number of ways your name hits the ole' nail on the head, I have shamelessly copied and pasted the following from: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051438/posts
1. Like Hitler, President Bush was not elected by a majority, but was forced to engage in political maneuvering in order to gain office.
2. Like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized national outrage, in Hitler's case the Reichstag fire, in Bush's case the 9-11 catastrophe.
3. Like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless ultra-nationalist foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate.
4. Like Hitler, Bush has accordingly improved his popularity ratings, especially with veterans and conservative Republicans, by mounting an aggressive public relations campaign against foreign enemies. Just as Hitler cited international communism to justify Germany's military buildup, Bush uses Al Qaeda and the Axis of Evil to justify our current military buildup.
5. Like Hitler, Bush promotes militarism while in the midst of a major economic recession (or depression). He uses war preparations to help subsidize defense industries (Halliburton, Bechtel, etc.) and presumably the rest of the economy on a trickle-down basis.
6. Like Hitler, Bush glorifies patriotism to stir up public support. He treats our nation's unique historic destiny almost as a religious cause sanctioned by God.
7. Like Hitler, Bush quickly makes and breaks diplomatic ties, and he makes generous promises that he soon abandons, as in the case of Mexico, Russia, Afghanistan, and even New York City.
8. Like Hitler, Bush envisages a future world order that guarantees his own nation's hegemonic supremacy rather than cooperative harmony under the authority of the United Nations (or League of Nations). He is willing to break the U.N. Charter in promoting this end.
9. Like Hitler, Bush scraps international treaties, most notably the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, the Biological Weapons Convention, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the Convention on the Prohibition of Land Mines, the Chemical Weapons Convention, the Kyoto Global Warming Accord, and the International Criminal Court.
10. Like Hitler, Bush depends on an axis of collaborative allies, which he describes as a "coalition of the willing," to give the impression of having a broad popular alliance. These include the U.K. as compared to Mussolini's Italy, and Spain and Bulgaria as compared to, well, Spain and Bulgaria, both of which were aligned with Germany during the thirties and World War II.
11. Like Hitler, Bush possesses a war machine much bigger and more effective than the military capabilities of other nations. Today, Bush depends on a "defense" budget roughly equivalent to the combined military expenditures of the rest of the world.
12. Like Hitler, Bush is willing to invade other nations despite the opposition of the U.N. (League of Nations). He also has no qualms about bribing, bullying and insulting its members, even tapping their telephone lines.
13. Like Hitler, Bush pursues war without cutting back on the peacetime economy. He actually seeks to reduce taxes while conducting an expensive invasion and occupation of an "undesirable" nation.
14. Like Hitler, Bush launches unilateral invasions on a supposedly preemptive basis. Just as Hitler convinced the German public to think of Poland as a threat to Germany in 1939, Bush wants Americans to think of Iraq as a "potential" threat to our national security.
15. Like Hitler, Bush is willing to inflict high levels of bloodshed, with many thousands of casualties anticipated in Iraq, especially since the city of Baghdad--with a population of between 5 and 6 million--will be a primary target.
16. Like Hitler, Bush depends on a military strategy that features a "shock and awe" blitzkrieg beginning with devastating air strikes, then an invasion led by heavy armor columns.
17. Like Hitler, Bush is perfectly willing to sacrifice life as part of his official duty, as indicated by his unique record as a governor of Texas who was reluctant to commute death sentences.
18. Like Hitler Bush began warfare on a single front (Al Qaeda quartered in Afghanistan), but then expanded it to a second front with Iraq, only to be confronted with North Korea as a potential third front. Much the same thing happened when Hitler expanded German military operations from Spain to Poland and France, then was distracted by Yugoslavia before invading the USSR in 1941.
19. Like Hitler, Bush has no qualms about imposing "regime change" by installing Quisling-style client governments reinforced by full-scale military occupation under a military governor.
20. Like Hitler, Bush curtails civil liberties and depends on detention centers (i.e. concentration camps) such as Guantanamo Bay.
21. Like Hitler, Bush repeats lies often enough that they come to be accepted as the truth. Bush and his spokesmen argue, for example that every measure has been taken to avoid war (hardly true), that an invasion of Iraq will diminish (not intensify) the terrorist threat to the world, and that the U.S. is staging an invasion because the risks of inaction would be greater (not less). All of this is highly debatable. They likewise argue that Iraq is linked with Al Qaeda (which has yet to be proven), and that nothing whatsoever has been achieved by U.N. inspectors to warrant the postponement of U.S. war plans (which simply isn't true). They insist that Iraq hides numerous weapons it does not possess as well
as can be determined by U.N. inspectors, and they refuse to acknowledge the total absence of any nuclear weapons program in Iraq since the late nineties. As perhaps to be expected, they indignantly accuse everybody else of deception and evasiveness.
22. Like Hitler, Bush incessantly finds new excuses to justify war—from Iraq's WMD threat to the elimination of Saddam Hussein, to his supposed Al Qaeda connection, to the creation of democracy in the Middle East as a model for neighboring states, and back again to the WMD threat. As soon as one excuse for war is challenged, Bush shifts to another, but only to shift back again at another time.
23. Like Hitler Bush and his cohorts exaggerate ruthlessness by their enemies in order to justify their own. Just as Hitler cited the threat of communist violence to justify even greater violence on the part of Germany, the Bush team justifies a full-scale invasion of Iraq by emphasizing Saddam Hussein's crimes against humanity that were for the most part committed when Iraq was a client-ally of the U.S., supplied with both advisors and materiel (poison gas included) by our own government.
24. Like Hitler, Bush's Messianic ambition to bring about America's hegemonic dominance in the world makes him perhaps the most dangerous President in our nation's history, a rogue chief executive capable of waging any number of illegal preemptive wars.
25. Like Hitler, Bush has become so obsessed with his vision of a Manichaean conflict between good (U.S. patriotism) and evil (the anti-patriotic "other") that for many in contact with the White House he is beginning to seem as if he has lost touch with reality.
26. Like Hitler, Bush takes pleasure in the mythology of frontier justice. As a youth Hitler read and memorized the western novels of Karl May, and Bush retains into his maturity his fascination with simplistic cowboy values. He also exaggerates a cowboy twang despite his elitist education at Andover, Yale and Harvard.
27. Like Hitler, Bush misconstrues evolutionary theory, in Hitler's case by treating the Aryan race as being superior, in Bush's case by rejecting science for fundamentalist creationism.
stupid @ 99:
Lex Talionis @ 77:
I think it'll be earlier than that - I don't have a date - Sometime the end of 08 - After Nov but Before the New year.
q188r @ 101:
My bad - I meant the end of the year 08 but before the 09 year.
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