Pentagon/Post Office Throws Away Letters Addressed to "Any Soldier"
When I was a kid, my class would have to write cards to soldiers in Vietnam during the holidays, our teachers reminding us that these men and women were far from home and all the comforts of the holidays. I remember hearing how much it meant to the troops to get these little packages with childish scrawls and pictures, along with the socks and chocolate and other treats we would send along to bring them a little bit of home in the Vietnamese jungle. Maybe that's why this seems so simultaneously poignant and pathetic.
Hundreds of thousands of holiday cards and letters thanking wounded American troops for their sacrifice and wishing them well never reach their destination. They are returned to sender or thrown away unopened.
Since the Sept. 11 attacks and the anthrax scare, the Pentagon and the Postal Service have refused to deliver mail addressed simply to "Any Wounded Soldier" for fear terrorists or opponents of the war might send toxic substances or demoralizing messages.[..]
USO spokesman John Hanson said that like the military, the nonprofit service organization does not deliver unopened mail to unspecified recipients. He said the USO worries about security as well as hateful messages from war critics.
"We just want to make sure it's not, `Die, baby killer,'" he said. "There are people out there who act irrationally, and we don't want anyone to get a message that would be discouraging."
That's right...you can put your life on the line, but we think you're too delicate for bad words on a card...as if people who are against the war are calling the troops baby killers. It's a disgusting slur on both the troops and those of us who want them out of harm's way.
This is just another f*cked up twisted rationalization for blaming opponents while disguising their own contempt of the soldiers. If they really cared about the soldiers, let people write "okay to screen" on the envelopes and have volunteers open the letters.
Another war on Christmas brought to you by the GOP.
To me, the anthrax scare seemed like a wedge issue to allow "authorities" to inspect mail. One more loss of privacy, or more spying, if you will.
In Canada, once posted, it becomes the Queen's mail, and no one may open it, except the adrressee. Very strict laws indeed. Perhaps the US postal laws are old like that too. Makes it hard for the government to spy on you via snail mail.
“We just want to make sure it’s not, `Die, baby killer,’”
OMG, that's the most horrible thing I have read in a long time. So this douchebag just tosses this out there. I wish someone would ask him if that has EVER happened during this war. What a sickening thing for him to say.
I do see the point about anthrax or other nefarious contents being mailled as a bit of a booby-trap. Rethugs would love to plant that and blame it on the anti-american luberals who hate the troops.
Fine, I'll buy SOME of this. You want to destroy mail that has no return address on it, fine. But you can't tell me that with all the domestic spying going on that the Postal Service...a branch of the Federal Government...can't tell if some Hebrew, Catholic, Lithuanian...hell even Islamic grade school, or children's hospital, nursery school..WHATEVER is legitimate?
This is the outgrowth of paranoia. This is what is meant when we "worry" about the destruction of our quality of life.
Complete neo-con BS. This is the logical extension of their paranoia that those who want to end the war don't support the troops. I don't think I've EVER met ANYONE who EVER wished harm on any troops, at any rallies, protests, planning sessions, or anything else. And as anyone who's lived overseas away from families (particularly in the era before e-mail) knows, letters are gold at that time. Bastards.
They're afraid opening the letter will unleash a hail of spittle.
Liberal AND Proud @ 5:
Sorry #5, I'm somewhat echoing you. Just want to affirm that I'm giving credit. I happened to think exactly the same as you but I wasn't cribbing your talking points :)
They want complete control over your life: everything you do, say and think, what you buy, where you go, who you contact, how, and what you say. It's that simple. Sieg Heil.
What BS. If someone really wanted to send poison to a soldier, how trivially easy would it be to get the name and address of some random soldier off the internet?
It's hard for me to believe that these people are stupid enough to think they can protect themselves from every conceivable threat. We live in a country where you can buy lethal weapons at the Wal-Mart!
The whole point of terrorism is to disrupt a society by scaring everyone. Things like this just prove that the terrorists have been spectacularly successful in that regard.
Posting these cards and letters in barracks and veteran hospital community areas would just make too much sense.
It is just another demonstration of the disconnect between the American public and the actual war and soldiers fighting it. No photos of coffins, no contact with the soldiers.. I have never heard of ANYONE who didn't support the soldiers. On the flip side, I have never met ANYONE who supported this administration and their decision to go to war.
There is a very nice "thank-you" and Christmas wish to the soldiers here.
jgr4 @ 10:
You are correct. The terrorists have won and they've been living in the White house since Jan. 2000.
This is just flat out bullshit, think about it:
In Vietnam there were thousands of protesters calling the troops "baby killers," and yet they delivered these anonymous letters.
Whereas today, it is almost unheard of (save for right-wing Christian fanatics) for anyone to call the troops anything but heroes. It doesn't make any sense to suggest that the "baby killer" threat is more serious today than it was 40 years ago, in fact it is highly unlikely that would happen today.
As far as anthrax, couldn't a simple solution be "if you address to any soldier, write a postcard?"
I mean come on, this isn't freaking rocket science, and yet we have our government lying to us yet again, about even the most trivial thing such as why they throw letters away.
It seems to me that it would be pretty easy to spot the envelopes with anthrax in them. Just look for the ones with the RNC return address on them.
Makes sense to me - not to dissuade your herd. The government/postoffice isnt in the business of choosing recipients of mail - in particular if the chosen recipient could be harmed.
Get a soldiers name and send them mail.
You want to send an anonymous note -
USE A POSTCARD.
Tony @ 14:
I was in many very large protests. I cant remember a single incident where thousands of protestors called soldiers baby killers. They did call Johnson and Nixon and Westmoreland baby killers - the rest is urban legend.
So because "some" people out there might say something unkind, hundreds of thousands of people who want to wish the soldiers well are denied that opportunity. When did we become such a country of infants that even our soldiers need to be babied?
For once i will have to agree with the Pentagon.
When i worked with homeless people we asked people on our mailing list to donate Christmas presnts every year. The first year we accepted wrapped gifts. That was the last year we did that.
Some clever people sent coal. Others sent little notes saying, "Get a job you lazy bum!" while a few cheerful folks sent used underwear complete with "racing stripes."
After that first year we asked for unwrapped gifts and wrapped them ourselves. Needless to say the quality of the gifts went way up.
I think their must be a rational solution to this problem. Perhaps the Pentagon/Post office can set up an office to accept mail for soldiers and carefully go through it. It would certainly be easy enough if the senders showed ID and accepted responsibility for the contents of the letters.
Well, I guess the USO would know better than typical citizens whether today's soldiers are a bunch of pussies or not. My question is why there hasn't been any media attention on the disparity of understanding. If the typical citizen knew that soldiers were so fragile we might poll differently on how well the war is going. "As well as can be expected with a wimpy military."
Since i am agreeing with the Pentagon i may as well point out that they used to give us 100,000 blankets every winter to distribute to other shelters and to people on the streets on our nightly "blanket runs."
anon @ 17:
Having been in Nam as a Marine , I heard of many such incidents ,even saw some on television. The urban legend is that it didn't happen.
another repug mantra...Support the troops send them off to Iraq...but don't give them anything like body armour,Bullets,mail call..............ya know?...........................all that sand has to be reaking havok on all that equipment...from hand held weapons to tanks,humvees,everything.....
Just another "fuck you" to the troops, brought to you by BushCo.
Imagine being on the other side of the world in a war you may or may not agree with and for Christmas you get a letter calling you an idiot for being there (even if it is true.)
The suicide rate among the US Military serving and who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan is high enough already.
nwmuse @ 12:
At the risk of being labeled unpatriotic, let us examine this incredible banal and feel-good phrase "support the soldiers [or troops]", shall we? Does that not mean support their mission of brutalizing and terrorizing the Iraqi people? If there were Chinese soldiers occupying these shores, and breaking down doors and harassing U.S. citizens, do you believe those soldiers should be supported? I have a button which shows an American soldier comforting another soldier. Above the image it states: Support the troops, while below the image it says Bring Them Home Now.
You want to feel like you are doing a good deed this holiday season? Then send a card to members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War]. Those soldiers and ex-soldiers are the true heroes of this country. Or you can send to the American soldiers in Iraq copies of the DVD Sir! No Sir!, which focused on the GI Resistance that took place during the Vietnam War. As Dave Cline said in that moving and powerful documentary, "Your silence [referring to the soldiers] is keeping that lie going."
Despite what civilians and even the soldiers may think, those in the military today do indeed have a choice and that would be, as Lt. Watada so wisely noted, to stop fighting in an illegal and unjust war [or occupation]. One would do well to remember the words of former Green Beret Donald Duncan in Sir! No Sir! which can certainly apply to those in the military today: "I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right."
terry740 @ 22:
I got called a baby killer...in Dec 75 im Monterey Calif....I was out on the town on the weekend and some little girl about 13 /15 years old called me a baby killer.(I was still in boot camp)She also spit on me.....she was too young to know what she was doing.....she thought she was being cool............like I said ,she was just a kid....but I remember that moment...oh well...
.
Since the September 11th terrorist attacks...
Since then, nothing matters and everything is dumped on it's head.
Since Sept. 11, 2001, America fundamentally changed/perverted.
And since 9/11/01 we've been subject to an advanced social experiment.
But no investigation as to WHY we're afraid of box cutters, al-CIA-duh agents, or shampoo.
.
EH @ 20:
It's not because they don't want the soldeirs recieving cards from children, it's because what might be sent back in the thank you letter, sand.
What kinda bombs did we use when we first attacked Iraq?
mudshark @ 27:
The barriers between people are steep and strong. They keep us from economic justice, from ending war and from each other. There are usually thoughtfull people on both sides of any issue but rest assured there are always idiots.
What happened to that picture of Ann Coulter posing with John Amato, which was up earlier today?
xoites defends Constitution @ 19:
There is resentment toward the homeless in the manner which you've described.....but as I said in #6, as I would imagine is true for probably all, I've never heard harm wished on our troops.
TC @ 33:
I have heard people say it here. Their posts get deleted but trust me, it has happened.
I am able to separate out the troops doing their jobs and doing it to the best of their abilities - under the most horrendous conditions - all the while be separated from their support systems (family and spouses), being asked to serve in repeated tours, being paid a pittance, getting insufficient medical care when they come home.. Where shall I stop..? I can say support the soldiers without saying I support this mission - I don't.
All the while, they are serving their country, being asked by a corrupt administration to do an impossible job, being lied to about the reasons they are there. Again, the soldiers are doing their job. They are doing what has been asked of them. Its an awful job. I want to offer my support for them, not the administration, not the 'mission' whatever the hell that is supposed to mean (this week). I am in total agreement about supporting the troops BEST by bringing them home. I show that in everything I do and say - and I say a lot.
In the meantime, I still feel the difficulty of these young kids being separated from family at Christmas in the worst of hellholes this government has instigated by this illegal war..
It hits close to home for me because I have a someone close to my family about to be deployed - his choice, because he needed the help with being able to go to college.. I am sick about it.
xoites defends Constitution @ 31:
growing up in So Calif on the coast my whole life and then enlisting and being stationed in Monterey...was very nice...but the truth is....a lot of people here in Monterey back then strongly disliked us "doggies"....and there was a lot of people who Liked us alot as well......but mostly not..oh well..life goes on.
I still think a solution is possible instead of pointing fingers and depriving troops of well intended correspondance.
And yes, i am against this war.
War, for that matter.
Erroll @ 26:
Thank you.
I echo your sentiments.
Peace!
.
What stupid reasoning: "fear terrorists or opponents of the war might send toxic substances or demoralizing messages"
Demoralizing messages are "OK" if they are sent to a service member by name?!?
xoites defends Constitution @ 34:
OH YEAH...it's happened.....but like X said....theres alway an idiot or three popping up every now and then.......they too think there being tragically hip.
Having been in Nam as a Marine , I heard of many such incidents ,even saw some on television. The urban legend is that it didn’t happen.
You mean there is video footage of a citizen calling a soldier a 'baby killer' to his face, or spitting on a soldier as he arrives in Frisco?
I didn't think so.
What I did see on TV was a bunch of corrupt, mafia-controlled union labororers beating the shit out of peaceful protestors on lower Broadway in New York City and getting away with it. That's what I saw on the teevee.
On the surface, it does make a certain amount of sense -- but for the most part, it doesn't. Did it ever occur to them or did they ever bother to take a sample of the letters -- say, 1000 or so -- in order to see how many of them fell into the dreaded category of "demoralizing the troops"? My guess is that they didn't, but it would have been a simple enough thing to do -- it's called research, and people (or at least, sane and clear-headed and intelligent people) do it all the time.
Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. Let's remember, folks -- this is the same adminstration which, when it comes to the point where the rubber meets the road, has been very remiss when it comes to Supporting The Troops even though they often stress the importance of doing so and make very free with their criticism of others for not doing so. This is the same administration which ignored the advice of seasoned military advisors and failed to put enough troops on the ground in Iraq to be assured of accomplishing the purported objective. This the same administration which responded to complaints from the soldiers regarding inadequate equipment with a cavalier remark "you go to war with the military you have, not the military you wish you could have" -- the same administration which tried to penalize the families of soldiers who tried to pay for the needed equipment themselves. This is the same administration which has been cutting veterans' benefits. This is the same administration which was in power when it was discovered that some of the injured soldiers returning from Iraq were being forced to endure execreble living conditions at Walter Reed. Need I go on?
TC @ 33:
I should add that 1/3 of the 1200 men in our 1400 bed shelter were Veterans so the disaffection overlaps.
Latest from the Pentagon: Throwing away letters.
Im other news, the Pentagon has released it has thrown away ____ U.S. lives today in Iraq.
Bluestocking @ 42:
I don't even open email if i don't know who it is from. A thousand samples?
No, i think teachers who encourage students to write letters should be able to read them and take them down to the Post Office and verify their identity. It seems like a sfe solution. You have to verify anything over a pound as it is these days. I don't see the big deal. Individuals who want to send letters should do the same. Simple solution in my opinion.
odanny @ 44:
Officially 3,891.
Of course there are claims of many more and suicides later are not counted.
Dhalgren @ 41:
You just may want to read Mudshark@27 comments ,he happens to be a real live witness to the name calling. I myself was a six foot one inch two hundred and ten pounds marine at the time. Only an idiot would have mess with me at that time.
more casualties of mercantilism
terry740 @ 47:
Lots of shit on both sides.
I went to dozens of anti-war rallies in the 60's and 70's and never once heard our troops called baby killers. Now, I do remember LBJ (as in "hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?") and Tricky Dick being so named. The urban myth machine seems to be running in overdrive lately. This stuff was made up and repeated so many times that it became reality. Don't be fooled (again).
xoites defends Constitution @ 49:
yeah....ain't that the truth.
Letters are harmless when sent downrange (Iraq), but when a sincere thank you letter is sent back, it might be contaminated.
Think about the letters and packages sent back to service members families!
It's not just the global winds we have to worry about spreading this crap from the Iraqi desert.
Nice to know the letters I write in school never get to the soldiers. Good lord, how hard is it for these people to figure out that a bunch of middle-school kids probably have NOTHING to do with the terrorists? Support our troops, just don't send them letters or, you know, actually support them.
OMG, this is just over the top! I feel sick.
rmjbrown @ 50:
I am from Baltimore. I grew up watching Brooks Robinson play for the Baltimore Orioles. One of my favorite stories about him occured at an away in Detroit. He was walking through the airport and saw a guy in unifdorm looking extreemly down and he stopped and asked him what was wrong. The guy said he had just returned from Vietnam and someone called him a baby killer. Brooks Robinson took him to the game and let him sit in the dugout and after the game took him to dinner with the team.
There is one instance i am sure of.
Angryteen @ 53:
from time to time I've been reading your comments....for a teen you have a good head on your shoulders.....bet of luck to you in the future Angryteen.
that was supposed to say Best of luck........ughhhh.
Typoes schmipoes.
mudshark @ 51:
People went over the top on both sides back then ,just as they are doing now. Just because it didn't happen at someone's particular peace rally doesn't mean it didn't happen.
terry740 @ 22:
No, the urban legend is that thousands did such a thing. You heard something. I saw many many protests including a major takover of the UofA and never heard anything of the sort in person. This is one of those things you hear of - its supportive of a certain political persuasion.
I want video not third party testimonials.
Video or its bullshit.
anon @ 60:
I am here. My birth was not video taped yet here i am. Most video tape does not survive past 20 years as it is. You want me to say i heard it myself? Want me to say i never heard it myself?
I honestly don't remember.
xoites defends Constitution @ 61:
I do....to me personally...no bullshit.
It never ceases to amaze me the capacity for projection that the most reactionary members of our society posses.
I assume that if they were the ones disagreeing with the war, they would be the first ones to send en masse insulting the troops... ergo their assumption that if they would do it, other people might.
As per the whole 'Nam baby killer/spit in the face stuff, even though it may have happened. Most of it is tall tales trying to difusse anti war sentiments/movements by paint those factions as the "violent" ones. And it works wonders, soldiers are now the patriotic good clean kids (never mind the carnage commited) where as them hippies are now the real violent assholes.
To this day, any anti war person in public has to always start/defend their position with a disclaimer --I am against the war not the troops-- as if somehow they have to justify that they want peace on earth... what a "violent" concept eh? Obviously the BS and tall tales worked like a charm, typical divide and conquer by the people at the top.
LOL...videos....your kiddin right.......videos LMAO...
The Dude @ 63:
perhaps it's beyond your scientific mind Einstien......people have learned from the mistakes made in the 60's/70's....that's why you don't see the same reaction this time....it is possible to support our troops and be against this war in Iraq...but you knew that didn't you.
anon @ 60:
I never said it was in the thousands ,Tony@14 did . You mean Mudsharks personal experience is a third party testimonial. I happen to know what I know and it did happen but I personally can not say it was in the thousands and asking for tape from something that happen 30 plus years ago is kinda lame.
mudshark @ 65:
There is a few things I learned as a kid, one that there are two things you don't fuck with... a) the noise of a shotgun being loaded as the international sound for "get the fuck out," and b) any person in fatigues or official uniform, as you would get your ass kicked or thrown in jail. Thus the whole legion of dirty hippies and scrawny kids spitting left and right on the troops, almost sounds like a tall tale of soldiers not being able to walk a block without having a spit ball landing on their uniforms... makes you wonder why the US army did not issue rain coats en masse (would have solved the problem).
The amount of shit the troops had to put up with during/after Vietnam was mostly of the official/state sanctioned persuasion, from the lack of social services to the correct treatment of the mental anguish and trauma the troops had to endure. All of which had more to do with this society as a whole deciding not to waste their precious hard earned dollars on our kids, and little to do with them dirty hippies spitting or calling names. Another important lesson was to not start wars based on bullshit reasons.
So the leassons that this society should have learned from Viet Nam are legion. I find it telling that only the anti wark folk are the ones held to be the ones learning their "lesson" where as the rest of the society gets to do the same mistakes all over again: not enough funding for the troops fighting on yet another bullshit war.
I find it telling in a sort of disgusted way that this society has sunk to such level, that most public anti war figures have to support their positions with a disclaimer. That is all... no need for Einstein side insults....
You want videos, watch this one. It says it all. It covers the human side of this and the cost. It says it without having to be graphic. The cost is too high, in treasure and in human terms.
You can be against the war and still feel for what these soldiers are going through. It makes me want to work harder than ever to stop this insane war. The cost is just too high. For Iraq and the Iraqis, for our soldiers, for our country and the world.
The Dude @ 67:
I agree that things get exagerated. I think arguing about this is silly and beside the point.
Perhaps this is a better idea:
Petition the VA Secretary to Increase Mental Health Staffing
nwmuse @ 68:
Nice Video.
Xoites I agree absolutely, I just find it intriguing... that some people are forced to learn their lesson based on 3rd party accounts and complete lack of documentation on the subject.
Where as the big lessons such as bullshit war, and the lack of funding to guarantee the soldiers well being and treatment if needed are well documented and have far more serious effects.
Neither this junta nor any war supporter have to use disclaimers to support their bullshit positions. Thus, their divide and conquer bullshit with years of lawless hippies being catapulted as the real problem with Viet Nam has worked fairly efficiently IMHO.
The Dude @ 67:
ok Oppenhiemer...I'll lay of the Einstien bit......as for "tall tales"...I have more...but that would be pointless."The rest of society doing the same mistakes over again"?well...some people get duped easily....especially after 9/11....but again ...we all know that story don't we.........the rest of your comment i agree with..........have a nice night...OH...one more thing...on your previous post...you were projecting quite a bit......but you knew that didn't you.
Xoites defends Constitution and Mudshark
I suggest that both of you may want to rent or buy Sir! No Sir!. In that documentary, which chronicles the GI movement during the Vietnam War, there is an interesting segment of that film that deals with this discussion. Former Vietnam veteran Jerry Lembcke, who also teaches at Holy Cross College, talks about the book that he had written in 1998 "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam." Mudshark, I do not doubt what happened to you. But as Lembcke points out in the film and also in an article that he had written in The Boston Globe in 2005, the image, the urban myth that is prevalent from the Vietnam era, is that MOST Vietnam veterans were spat upon when they returned to the U.S. Lembcke combed through microfiche in libraries and could not come up with one credible source, through looking at many newspapers, both large and small, to back up these claims.
As Lembcke observed in the Globe article, a 1971 Harris poll was conducted by the Veterans Administration, and it discovered that over ninety [90] per cent of those veterans who returned from Vietnam received a warm welcome when they returned to this country. Also, most of these incidents seem to have happened at airports. As Lembcke notes, returning GIs landed at military airbases, not civilian airports, thus making it nearly impossible for these protesters to have greeted soldiers where they were not allowed to go. If the plane was diverted to a civilian site, how would these ubiquitous protesters and defilers of GIs have known which airport to go to to allegedly heap abuse at the returning soldiers? The short answer is they would not have known.
I do not think that Lembcke is saying that this did not necessarily happen. But he is saying that the proof is just not there, especially compared to the number of anti-war people who were repeatedly getting beaten up, by both the hard hats and the police.
"USO spokesman John Hanson said that like the military, the nonprofit service organization does not deliver unopened mail to unspecified recipients."
Then the Pentagon and/or the USO websites should provide contact information they require available to the American public. If they want to refuse to deliver something without a RETURN address, OK. But this is just feckin' weak!
These elites and bureaucrats have no respect or feelings for the individuals doing the actual work, over there or over here. There has to be a hundred work arounds for such a petty problem.
FIX IT!
nwmuse @ 68:
Thanks , it I must say it brings back a lot of memories . War doesn't change much ,Nam cost me my long time Girl (She didn't want me to join the Marines) and my best friend. He died about three feet from me during a mortar attack. There was also some times ,like when someone would get a care package from home (my first candy bar after three months in country made me sick)or a buddy would get short and put up a picture of Snoopy sectioned off for his days left. I'm proud of my service but I hate that bastard in the White House for this useless war.
Erroll @ 73:
This may surprise you but i am an honorary member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War/Winter Soldier Organization however i just put it on the top of my Netflix list and will be getting it next week.
Erroll @ 73:
I believe that what happened to me was 1 in a million.....I had heard of it...but I never thought i would see it or even expierence it.....to the best of my knowledge I'm the only one ...and Erroll....Merry Christmas....and thanks.
nwmuse @ 68:
thank you........very nice.
I am not a Veteran because even though i had planned to enlist on my 18th birthday a number of things happened to me before i was 17 and decided to become non violent. Someday i may actually be non violent, who knows? In any case i have met many honorable men and women who went to Vietnam and many honorable men and women who refused to go or sacrificed other options to protest war.
I had the unique opportunity to work with and struggle with serious people (some went to jail for years for what they believed in.) I have cried with Vets when they recounted their experiences. I never would have countenanced anyone calling them names then and i won't today.
Some people are misled (usually not for long), some make conscious decisions and still believe strongly that Vietnam was where they should have been. I may not agree, but i have a high regard for honor. That will never change.
Anthrax Terrorist Attack.
A "scare" doesn't victimize 22 people, kill 5 in DC, NY, FL, and CT, and require the Capitol to be evacuated for first time since 1812.
VP Cheney & former Homeland Security ADvisor Fran Townsend call it an attack. There have been several terrorist attacks on America since 9/11.
Cheney interview 11/09/2001 Free Republic, Brit.
David [reporter]: You talked about the possibility of a threat in the U.K. The anthrax attacks, which have happened since September 11th, CBS is reporting that they -- that these may be an American -- what you might call an American loony, and not a Muslim terrorist. Do you think -- are those reports correct, do you think? Do you have anything you could share with us?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: We just don't know. We're working hard trying to find out exactly what the source of the anthrax attacks are. But at this stage, we don't know whether that's something that's generated here at home, or whether it's part of the Osama bin Laden-al Qaeda attack on the U.S. It's clearly a terrorist attack; whether it's domestic or foreign, we don't know.
David: Absolutely. But you have no proof that it's al Qaeda or bin Laden?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: At this stage, I can't say. We just don't know.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/567683/posts
Q Fran, you said that we've not been -- "in the six years since the September 11th attacks, we've not been attacked, and I'm often asked why" -- are we any closer to finding out who carried out the anthrax attacks that followed the September 11th attacks?
MS. TOWNSEND: Obviously that's an ongoing investigation. I'm sure Director Mueller would be delighted to answer. (Laughter.)
Q But doesn't that count as a terrorist attack? I mean, that is a subsequent event, right, so it's-
MS. TOWNSEND: It does in my mind.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-7.html
I didn't see this already in the comments but there is a website called anysoldier.com where you can get a list of names of officers who are participating...basically you send a package or letter addressed to this person with attn: to "Any Soldier" and they will give the package to someone in their unit who doesn't receive a lot of mail. This solves the problem of not having a name to send to. There are now offshoots as well for anymarine.com etc...
When I read the article I was hoping they'd mention it considering it's been up since at least 2004. Of course I found it through michaelmoore.com which couldn't possibly support the troops.
I think the deadline for xmas is probably past but even better to send something when it's not expected.
Take care all!
westlafadeaway
westLAfadeaway @ 81:
Brilliant!
mudshark @ 72:
Einstien and Oppenhiemer seem to be the dyslexic cousins of the guys working on the Manhattan project. I am a horrible speller myself, however... I must confess that I have a predilection for Heisemberg if I were to be compared to any given physicist. I consider Quantum Mechanics to be pinnacle of human abstract thought.
Anyhow, I prefer hard documented facts rather than taking the word of someone I don't know off the internets at face value and/or proof of anything, if that is projecting... then so be it.
I was in fourth grade when my teacher had our class write a letter to "any soldier". My teacher, Mr. Newell, told us that the soldiers would like to hear about regular life back in the states, to make them feel closer to home and to remind them of their own families and lives. I complied, telling him of my family and friends, little details about school projects and the weather. I told him that I had a little sister in the third grade. About a month or so later, I received my letter and a package, which contained a beautiful Vietnamese doll for me and one for my sister. It was so thoughtful of him, not only to send me a gift but to include my sister. I don't know what happened to him, but with all of my heart and soul, I hope that he made it home, safe and sound. I never will forget him.
RE: 69 xoites defends Constitution
You're correct. The stories of Viet Vets getting spit at have all been proven to be OUT-RIGHT REICH-WING LIES!
I lived through that whole Viet-Nam War period and never never never ever read or saw any news about spitting on vets.
That lie was a Reagan-Bush delusion to lie to the masses.
westLAfadeaway @ 81:
I think your post should be a follow up thread.
ReaganTHEdrugsmugglingDOPEseller @ 85:
I never said they outright lies. I said they have been exagerated.
The Dude @ 83:
uhuh.......whatever....have a nice night.
just another ploy by the bush government to stop the troops from getting what they really need. add to the list of armored hummers, body armor, safe headgear, night goggles, enough to eat, boots & dr. scholl insoles, soap, deodorant, good medical treatment... you know... the basics... no emotional rescue forthcoming from W.
Fucking hell... That's just wrong. Just effing wrong.
"Die baby killer"? What dumbshit would say something like that?
I know I know "Don't condone violence" - but that's the kind of person I would punch right in the nose.
I don't know a single anti-war person out there who would say such a thing. There may be a couple crazies on the internet, and I wouldn't blame them for x-raying or otherwise checking such a package - but to just pitch them all because some whackjob MIGHT say something rude?
WTF.
Shame On U.S. @ 89:
Why do Republicans hate our soldiers?
I'm being dead serious here.
They claim to be the party of the military - yet at EVERY turn they seem to be doing anything they can to screw the crap out of our fighting men and women. WTF is their problem? Is it envy, because most of them crapped out of Vietnam? Is it a feeling of inadequacy that all they can do is SAY they care about democracy and freedom, while we have people who would die for those principles?
Are they just THAT uncaring?
WTF. That's all I can come up with.
JJohnson @ 90:
Well it was the beginning of the drug era. Lots of people got high or drunk or both and did things they might never do sober.
Throwing out mail is a FEDERAL crime as far as I know. Throwing it out can leave people vulnerable to identity theft if the contents are intercepted by someone other than the recipient or sender.
I think it's pretty damn cool to have so many Vets here...........that in it's self says a lot.
No soldiers have been called baby killers? Don't be so sure.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/181422_robert09.html
xoites defends Constitution @ 31
I would just like to point out that I was misquoted by Xoites above (I'm sure it was a mistake, I'm not accusing you of anything).
I never asserted that I was involved in any protests and never saw anyone call people baby killers. See my original comment @ 14
I only asserted that there were thousands of protestors calling soldiers "baby killers." Upon further reflection, that comment was probably exagerated: perhaps there were not thousands. It happened though, and for anyone to assert this was myth is only fooling themself.
Now, the vast majority of Vietnam protesters were peaceful people and never called the soldiers/marines baby killers. But to call it an "urban legend," thereby essentially asserting that it never happened is just crazy.
Besides, my original point still stands: it was more likely that this thing would have happened via letters to "any soldier" during Vietnam than it is right now, and yet, in Vietnam they did not ban these letters, and today, they have banned almost all of them.
Next thing you know they'll start throwing out mail addressed to "Santa Claus."
Bastards!
"terrorists or opponents of the war"
Nifty how they managed to lump those two groups together into one neocon pseudo-thought.
Is this the first year it occurred to them that Christmas cards could be lethal weapons? Did our troops suddenly become effete and emotionally disturbed. Were our troops more manly and able to handle (potential) name-calling last year and the year before and the year before, etc., etc.,than this year? What a bunch of shameless nonsense.
I've sent several packages to my son in Iraq - I have to fill out a customs form before the post office will accept them. it is clear to me that packages addressed to a specific soldier are subject to being inspected, and it would seem that "any soldier" would be as well. (I sent him some books, halloween candy for his company, 500+ home baked cookies for his company, and some electronics gear he has sent me a check for).
I had a member of my motorcycle club call me this week after one of his PT clients asked how to have their charitable organization (Daughters of the West or something like that?) get some holiday packages to soldiers, I gave his contact info and said he'd get things to his company and would work out what to do if there was too much stuff for a company. The point of which is charities that want to support soldiers aren't being allowed to help morale either.
We can still support the troops - ask someone you know with a servicemember if they're willing to mail extra goodies through their son/daughter/husband/wife. We can work around this bad policy and do so without a whole lot of national level organization. I'd say NCOs are probably the best, but any service member from Private to General getting too much stuff should want to give to his or her fellows.
I've been sending Flat rate priority mail boxes, postage is same as for domestic mail. All 5 sets of packages arrived in under 8 days, this may increase due to holiday mail volumes. (500+ cookies took 7 boxes for about $60 if I recall correctly).
If you want to send to any wounded soldier for the holidays:
Cards should be address to:
We Support You During Your Recovery!
c/o American Red Cross
P.O. Box 419
Savage, MD 20763-0419
Cards must be received no later than Dec. 27. Cards received after this date will be returned to the sender.
peaceful easy feeling @ 95:
those are some fucked up people....but thanks for posting this.........I can't believe it.....unbelievable.It doesn't matter if there repub or dem.......no one should go through that.This is an example of what politics can do to the nation.....when politicians devide the nation..........just like LBJ and Nixon did.
I forgot to mention he had something akin to "franking" privilege in that he wrote "Free" on the envelope of the check he sent me, it was dutifully postmarked and letter delivered at no cost.
miss_kitty @ 100:
thanks miss kitty.......that was nice of you to dig that up.....
miss_kitty @ 100:
That should read 'cards' in there. They won't take packages.
mudshark @ 101:
shit.........divide.........................ughhh no typo there.........
Just had a brainstorm... packages to General Patreus.
Liberal bloggers support troops by sending goodie packages for troops. He's got staff that should make sure contents get to the men.
mudshark @ 101:
Amen to that brother!
According to Tamar, the female announcer sarcastically asked Jason: "And what exactly are you a veteran of?"
Did this strike anyone else as pure projection? A parade announcer asks a vet which conflict he served in, and this person perceives it as sarcastic mockery?
I have no superior knowledge, having not been at the event... but I have been on the antiwar left since El Salvador, and never once heard this "baby-killer" type rhetoric from anyone on the left. The right, however, has spent many years carefully constructing the lie that troops were spat upon.
Again, I don't have any way to know what really happened. But it sounds to me so much more like the work of provocateurs than of sincere people.
and by the way, "Happy Holidays"!
there, take that, and furthermore,
"Peace on Earth"
Now you know what it's like to feel the wrath of hate.
Paolo @ 108:
I think some people hear about these things...........and are stupid enough to do it......thinking their cool....and we all know their not.But they do prove they are stupid.
Tony @ 96:
Just came back from being out for a bit. I am not sure what you mean exactly. I think your original statement was truncated by WordPress other wise my comment was directed at the discussion going on with you and three other posters. Often when things get nested like that quotes get messed up. Don't worry, i am not offended, just thought i would point that out.
Paolo @ 108:
Excellent point. Far more often than not, the superpatriots are the ones who are quick to malign veterans. Within the past year, veterans wishing to march in parades in Oregon and Colorado under the Veterans for Peace banner were denied the right to march. The organizers claimed that the VFP was too "political." Also, in the link that was provided by #95, the reporter from the P-I, Robert Jamieson, seemed to approve of the announcer saying that her father "fought for America." After many years, I finally came to the realization that I did not fight for my country when I was in Vietnam. On the contrary, I was fighting for the propaganda and the lies that were handed to me and the other poor bastards who ended up in that God forsaken place. History is repeating itself in Iraq with many of the soldiers there believing that they are there for some amorphous, noble cause when in reality they are fighting for a lost cause- "into the valley of death" rode the 160,000, and still those soldiers meekly go where the military orders them to go. These soldiers should not allow themselves to be used.
Soldiers-resist- by saying NO to the war machine.
.....too delicate for bad words on a card
there are no bad words, only inappropriate.
[deleted--please consult the commenting policy. Posts made with the intent to insult or incite will be edited/deleted.]
www.anysoldier.com
It works.
Teh irony, it hurts:
ya, ya right. then if a fuckhead like that phelps fellah and his lot decide to exercise their first amendment rights and send them nasty little love letters, you'd be shitting on the department for not opening and vetting them right? there's alot of reasons to criticize your government. why not find a real one and hammer away? the rest of the world is waiting, and frankly, not many of us are impressed with the american "left".
Has there ever been a documented case of the Vietnam-era troops being spat upon or called "Baby Killer"? I always thought that was a myth.
Kyuzo @ 117:
I don't know about "Baby Killer", but my brother's army buddy was spat on as he got off the plane for home, and he didn't even go to Vietnam.
TC @ 6:
Except: Fred "God Hates Fags (But Hates Me More Because I'm a Self-Loathing Gay Hypocrite)" Phelps and his "Church/Tax Scam"...
What they're REALLY afraid is that the soldiers will write back telling the senders the truth of the illegal occupation.
So, whatever happened regarding those anthrax attacks? To date, it's a cold-case.
September 4, 2007: Senator Patrick Leahy states in an interview with Vermont blog Vermont Daily Briefing that he is unsatisfied with the progress of the investigation and that he believes that some government officials may know more about the source of the anthrax than has been disclosed "I think there are people within our government — certainly from the source of it — who know where it came from."
This as a reason not to allow soldiers to receive mail has no merit. Subterfuge.
Rae Ann Turcer @ 84:
Awesome.
My brother's army buddy... Would he by any chance be related to "a friend of a friend" or "I know a guy who knows a guy"? Sheesh. And yet, to hear Joe Scarborough bloviate... baby killing is praiseworthy.
Tony @ 96:
There's a very good book on all of this called "Spitting Image". They've got it on Amazon. I got a copy at my local library. Good read about this period of time and the legends we wrap around it.
Revko @124
My comments at #73 amplify your thoughts regarding the book entitled "The Spitting Image" by Jerry Lembcke.
A few folks have mentioned AnySoldier.com. My wife and I use it pretty regularly. It's a great site with excellent instructions on how to best package and send stuff over to the troops. It provides points of contact for soldiers throughout the Middle East and Europe (don't forget our support units there). The POCs list the items they need - anything from a letter saying Hi, or toys for local kids, to day-to-day supplies. You get lists and updates straight from the troops.
It's mentioned on the site, but just in case you miss it - get the folks at the Post Office to give you the flat rate boxes. You can jam a lot of crap into them for like $8-9 a box.
Don't just think of them during the holidays. As a matter of fact shipping will suck right now, but you can stock up on supplies for them by reading the lists of what they usually request. We hit up places like Big Lots and Costco for bulk items like Gatorade, Baby Wipes, etc for distribution during the summer when they're needed most.
Check out the site. It's a great way to spend an afternoon with your family or friends.
Christmas eve 1967 in Vietnam a huge box of Christmas letters from kids was delivered to our ward. The guys really enjoyed them. The one that really cracked us up was addressed: Dear War Victim.
I don't think this as much about force protection or demoralizing messeges as it is about cost. The DoD funds the cost of miitary mail transport overseas, thus letters remain at 41 centspostage even though they are flown to the other side of the planet. Same with parcels, which are charged at a US domestic rate, and furrther cost paid by DoD. The huge amount of goodwill letters and parcels overwhelms an under-manned military postal mission. This results in the soaring cost of paying dedicated commercial airlift to move the mail into the AOR, and also massive mail delays. In 2003/2004 deployed members couldn't get letter and parcels from familiy and freinds in a reasonable amount of time because the system was congested with Any Service Member mail (this is on record in a GAO report). The DoD paid Kalita Air for additional charterred 747s carrying US mail to Bahrain and Kuwait to then truck into Iraq via KBR and associated convoys. It's all about the money baby.
Now for an additional insight from someone who has deployed four times to that part of the planet... Parcels were good because everyone likes free shit. Letters were good for some, but there was always a bit of a stigma associated with opening Any Service Member letters, the implication being that the poor sods don't get their own letters from home.
Even now, there are numerous feel-good programs using the taxpayer-funded military mail system as a cost-saving short cut to acheive their missions. Company and church group care pakages, private orgainization fund-raisers, toys for tots, orphanage collections, Any Service Member type packages that circumvent the prohibition by sending to a named service member for redistribution to other unit members, etc. Whether these are worthy causes or not, they are against current DoD rules based on congressional law, and funded by American tax dollars. My own feeling about these programs that bypass international civil mail systems and rely on under-staffed US military postal workers, is that the programs are more about us being able to pat ourselves on the back with minimal cost and effort. If the do-gooders want to do some real good, they should focus on preventing and retreating from unnessecary wars. Then all of the feel good programs wouldn't be as nessecary.
It just goes to show that the pentagon doesn't give a shit about any soldier. I'm sure Rumsfeld still has that basement office.
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