Okay, Ron Paul fans, PBS's NOW is devoting this week's episode to Ron Paul and how the internet is rewriting political campaigns.
And Bill Moyers will have Keith Olbermann as guest to discuss politics and the media as well as how media ownership is making diversity a thing of the past.
For those of you without TVs, both shows will be available online starting Saturday.
John Fugelsang: Only in America Can You Be Pro-Death Penalty, Pro-Torture... and Still Call Yourself Pro-Life
Rep. Steve King Articulates John Birch Society's Apocalyptic Vision
Dylan Ratigan Knocks Down Little Luke's Statement That Trade Agreements Create Jobs. You Tell Him, Dylan!
Arizona Congressional Candidate 'Pulls a Coffman' |
Bill Maher Takes a Shot at the Birthers With Parody on Romney's 'Wiferism' Scandal |
| Plays: 363 Downloads: 33 | |
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SNL Digital Short: Andy Samberg and Pee-wee Herman Get Drunk and Attack Anderson Cooper |
| Plays: 34 Downloads: 0 | |
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Colbert Makes a Mockery of Santorum Refusing to Refute Elderly Birther at Campaign Stop |
| Plays: 8 Downloads: 21 | |
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Missouri Taxpayers Fund 24-Hour Security Camera for Limbaugh Statue |
| Plays: 21 Downloads: 7 | |
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Rick Santorum Says He 'Doesn't Feel Any Obligation' to Refute Every Birther Out There |
| Plays: 1 Downloads: 24 |
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Stockman: Romney Can't Say He Learned How to Create Jobs in the Leveraged Buyout Business |
| Plays: 2264 Downloads: 165 | |
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Bill Maher Takes a Shot at the Birthers With Parody on Romney's 'Wiferism' Scandal |
| Plays: 1808 Downloads: 139 | |
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Krugman: Romney's Business Career is Fair Game |
| Plays: 1737 Downloads: 151 | |
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Arizona Congressional Candidate 'Pulls a Coffman' |
| Plays: 1656 Downloads: 147 | |
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Steve Rattner Says Romney Was Not A Job Creator |
| Plays: 1210 Downloads: 124 |
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Colbert Makes a Mockery of Santorum Refusing to Refute Elderly Birther at Campaign Stop |
| Plays: 6931 Downloads: 298 | |
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Bill Maher Sends Alexandra Pelosi Out to Interview Mississippi Residents |
| Plays: 6270 Downloads: 245 | |
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Millionaire Nick Hanauer Shoots Down Neil Cavuto's Straw Men as He Explains Why His Taxes Should be Raised |
| Plays: 5810 Downloads: 219 | |
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Jon Stewart: Fox STFU with How Victimized You Are |
| Plays: 4414 Downloads: 234 | |
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Bill Maher Knocks Liberty University: It Cheapens My Degree From a Real School |
| Plays: 3523 Downloads: 200 |
Ron Paul's blimp lifted off today. All Ron fans be on the look out if you live on the east coast. It's on it's way from the Carolinas to DC
pissed off patricia @ 1:
You got my hopes up for a second or two when you said ..."be on the look out if you live on the east coast. It's on it's way from the Carolinas to ...."
:( I'm in NY. Bummer. No blimp for me this year and I'm not even a fan of Ron Paul's, I just like blimps.
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Oh darn! I ruined everything now!
It's great that this program will discuss politics and the media, and no one can do it better than Bill Moyers. but we need to inject those same questions in the the election itself.
I want to hear the candidates talking about media consolidation, free speech, Internet Neutrality, etc. Why has this not even been brought up ONCE in any debate? The media will determine the outcome of every race next year. This should be a top tier campaign issue.
Although, as the publisher of News Corpse, I may be biased (in a good way).
No TV? That's me! I'll ck it out onna web. If it ain't onna web, it ain't newz.
pissed off patricia @ 1:
Nothing fires up the electorate like a blimp.
Awww, c'mon! Don't encourage the non thinking hordes of RP fan boys already!
Now we'll never be rid of them!
There is another Ron Paul "money bomb" donation day this sunday
the first one netted him almost 5 million
this one is expected to set a new record and bring in 10 million!
yee haw
Oh boy!
RP gets more money so he can drag the country even harder to the right.
Yeehaw.
milquetoast @ 8:
"Liberty Dollars" don't count.
Symes @ 7:
Nicole Bell gave us a thread so bite us!! (haha just kidding)
...thanks for the thread Nicole Belle! ...I know its getting hard to ignore us!
I dont agree with Ron Paul on everything...
milquetoast @ 11:
The ONLY thing I agree with him on is returning the Constitution to it's rightful status.
Other than that he is a hard right, everyman for himself, unregulated free markets freak who isn't really much better than any other Repug.
He is even running as one, and that in itself is enough to kick him around for.
If he'll "compromise" himself by doing that what will he compromise us for?
Symes @ 9:
corporate power is licking its lips in hopes of a ron paul victory.
as a person, he seems genuine and kind. as a politician, his views and ideology scares the bejesus out of me. nothing like kneecapping the state to allow corporate power to dictate everything in america.
next stop: privatization of air
Perhaps Bill Moyers will ask Keith Olbermann why he refuses to call himself a liberal. Olbermann's Special Comments would seem to indicate that he leans that way yet he appears to think that being labeled a liberal is a bad thing. For true progressive reporting for the entire hour of its show, the best and only progressive program on the airwaves five days a week is Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman.
Samson- @ 13:
Yup, that's something the RP fan bots here don't quite seem to grasp.
Erroll @ 14:
i second that: amy goodman, democracy now, pacifica radio---the best
Symes @ 12:
"unregulated free market freak"???
I got news for ya buddy. Corporations are already "unregulated" ...they are all gone... there is nothing left for Ron Paul to regulate.
Havent you been watching the news? they all moved to Dubai!
McDuff @ 2:
I live sort of in the middle of the east coast of Fla. I get to see blimps frequently as they fly down to Miami for football games. The Snoopy one has passed over my house a couple of times in the past. I love to watch them too. When they come over they sound sort of like a giant lawn mower flying above the house.
milquetoast @ 8:
its a shame that money didnt go to a more worthwhile candidate dennis kucinich!!!!!!!!!!!!
milquetoast @ 17:
Horseshit.
Don't try that crap on me, I am an educated man.
Go read up on Libertarianism then come back after you've educated yourself.
It's the evil twin of Anarchism and just as much unworkable utopianism as Anarchism.
It assumes (counts on as a matter of fact) that the rich are altruistic, are you so dumb as to believe that is the case?
Corporate America votes for Ron Paul, this guy is full-on, whack job, bat-shit crazy, neocon-libertarian, anti-government, pro-corporate, anti-environment tool for those who did not have enough power and wealth after the other Texas assholes; LBJ and the bushes and the oil kingpins led us to where we are now.
so who do you vote for?
Symes @ 20:
Good point. Justin Raimondo keeps pushing Ron Paul on his web site antiwar.com as if he is the Second Coming. Raimondo will not brook any dissent regarding Paul, even on domestic matters. While Paul's foreign policy is generally laudable, Raimondo will not acknowledge that Kucinich has also spoken out quite vociferously against the occupation. Only Ron Paul and he alone can restore this country to the glory of the 18th century.
Gregg @ 21:
Symes @ 20:
Horseshit,crap,evil twin,libertarianism=anarchy,educated myself,unworkable utopianism,and I am so dumb as to believe....
wow sounds like I hit a nerve or something. are you ok? did I make ya think for a sec?
I repeat, corporations dont live here anymore. what is there to deregulate?
Gregg @ 21:
corporate america votes for ron paul?????!@&^%Bwwaaahaaaahhaaaaa!!!!!
Corporate america does not vote for Ron Paul....and I dont have to back my statement up, just watch mainstream media and you will find out who is backed by corporations.....who is the whack job Gregg?
milquetoast @ 23:
Really, you don't know what regulations are keeping your water from being poisoned, your air from being unbreathable, your food from being rotten when it is sold to you?
The regulations that keep them from feeding you more pesticides than they already do on your food and your clothing?
The regulations that keep the power plants from irradiating your family?
That FORCE power and oil companies to keep up their infrastructure so that you don't get cancers from their toxic releases when a pipe breaks or a reactor core gets hot or a truck leaks it's chemicals all over the freeways?
The regulations that keep us from getting Salmonella/E. Coli more often than we do in our food.
The regulations that keep corporations from employing 10 year olds.
You know, the regulations that the corporations want so much to disappear from the books so they can kill us all in the name of free market profit.
The only nerve you've hit is that you are representative of the unthinking masses that cheer on this loon without even knowing what you are cheering about.
Typical American, and an excellent example of why the rest of the EDUCATED world holds us in low regard.
Damn you RP fan bots are dense!
milquetoast @ 23:
Pretty funny coming from someone who doesn't even know what Libertarianism is.
tyree @ 19:
the real shame is Dennis has a lot of support and none of his fans are pimpin him.
All I can say is look at what Ron Pauls campain people are doing....and copy.
Dennis is my second choice.
Why do I have a strange desire to spam this thread?
milquetoast @ 27:
Kucinich supporters should hide most of Dennis' true beliefs to make him more palatable, and spam the shit out of blogs?
Symes @ 25:
Wow yeah, Ron Paul the Deregulator!
sounds like Corporations should be lining up w/ money in hand!
Explain to me Symes, since you are an educated man, why corporations are givin all their money to Hillary and Giuliani.
I cant wait for this one.
Rusty Shackleford @ 29:
Money talks and Dennis has none. Go make him some!!!
We have a scintillating interview with Ron Paul over at hawkeanddove.com. (Full Disclosure: Hawke and Dove is a satirical site).
milquetoast @ 30:
So you don't know about Libertarianism eh?
Called it right the first time.
I never brought corpie money into it, you are confusing me with Gregg.
I called RP a loon.
And made an accurate comparison or Anarchism and Libertarianism.
Easily confused? It would seem so.
Corporations give their money to those two because they are electable in ways RP is not.
They are both (along with the rest of the field for the most part) supportive of NAFTA and off shoring and corporate breaks and deregulation. You know, business as usual. And business as usual is what they are about.
RP does want to end the war, corporate America does not want that, that more than likely overrides any benefits he may present to them.
Was that too hard for you to figure out? Glad I could be of some service to you then.
But none of that makes RP any less of a hard right, everyman for himself, unregulated free markets freak who isn’t really much better than any other Repug.
Something you haven't addressed other than to say that it doesn't matter anyway (it does by the way).
milquetoast @ 30:
dumb question, they are betting that one of them will be the winner.
and your comments about regulations and corporations are simply wrong (and confused).
Rusty Shackleford @ 10:
FBI has all of those now . . .
I think some folks here are delusional and think we have elections where people vote and then the vote is counted and the one with the most votes gets to win.
The fix is in from the beginning. Howard Dean was the populist candidate last time around. They took care of him by playing the scream 656 times on national tv in one week. They had also warmed up the crowd by planting a story that he was "unstable". So we got John "Skull and Bones" Kerry and the ketchup heiress.
Ron Paul is not the right wing candidate, he is the populist candidate. Right and Left is BS anyway. Thoughts don't have directions.
Avid Reader @ 36:
Not so, the terminology is useful to describe either socialist or nationalistic leanings and that is how it is used.
It is akin to using red or blue to designate the general socio-political leanings of various regions based on their voting patterns.
Or in a more abstract way the naming of quarks as up/down/strange/charm/top/bottom. Quarks are none of those things, but it is a useful convention to differentiate based on specific characteristics.
Avid Reader @ 36:
right, and it is the system we have had from the beginning: a representative democracy. we do not vote on issues, laws, etc. we vote for the people who do vote (same with elections: electoral college).
ron paul advocates dismantling every PUBLIC institution we have defending us, the people, against the raw, unbridled power of corporations. adam smith believed, and he was right, that the visible hand of the state is VITAL to protect against the corrupt (by nature) invisible hand of the market. there is no such thing as a "free" market. the market, by nature, strives for monopoly, profit at all costs and total domination: it is what is good for business. which is fine. but, what is needed are public institutions to temper the unequal power corporations hold (thank you very much santa clara county versus southern pacific railroad). and this is exactly what paul advocates dismantling.
he would be the biggest gift the corporatocracy ever rec'd.
another Norquistian "Maverick" candidate
Ron Paul: Time to Kill the Death Tax
http://pressmediawire.com/article.cfm?articleID=4130
Ron Paul Slams Global Warming "Fearmongering"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2007/120607_slams_fearmonge...
North Dakotans for Ron Paul: Abortion’s “unshakeable foe”
http://nd4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2007/11/abortions-unshakeable-foe.html
Congressional Control of Health Care is Dangerous for Children by Ron Paul
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul411.html
i think ron paul is similar to huckabee. on the surface they seem like affable and friendly guys. but, once you scratch the surface and understand thier views, you realize that they are actually very extreme in their political views. and, i strongly believe, very, very, very dangerous.
Avid Reader @ 36:
Ron Paul is the populist candidate?! That is hilarious! Ron Paul, the wealthy, 72 year old, Libertarian/Republican from Texas wants to represent the people? In case you don't already know, almost all political conflicts can be seen in terms of class warfare. If greedy wackjobs, like Ron Paul, want to take away our rights and protections, and feeding them to corporate giants, he is huuuurting most Americans, not helping them. Both you and milquetoast need to take a moment to seriously ponder the disasterous implications of the Libertarian Party's backwards ideology. Yikes!
Symes @ 33:
Sorry Symes but I just cant get past your logic that Ron Paul is every corporations dream deregulator...but has collected all of his money from individuals and has no (very few) corporate contributors, ...it just does'nt add up
clue;...If you want to see the deregulator who corporations want for pres watch CNN or FOX news
...you wont see Kucinich or Paul
sorry about the horrifiying libertarian bedtime story someone scared you with...you are obviosly having nightmares. and yes I know a little about libertarianism but I dont want to discuss it with you, you need a therapist to handle those unfounded nightmares not me...
Ron Paul is libertarian! Well except for CHOICE. Ron Paul is FOR FORCED CHILDBIRTH! If the state thinks that forced childbirth is ok, then it must be ok! After all, there's nothing that proves FREEDOM like forced childbirth! Go Ron Paul - you nutjob you! Rah!
Samson- @ 38:
Once again....does not compute...by your logic Ron Paul should be rolling in billions of dollars in dirty corporate cash.does not compute.... does not compute
milquetoast @ 42:
i hate to break the news to you, but ron paul is the corporate dream candidate. when govt regulatory agencies are disbanded, when govt regulations come to a full stop, when public services are cut, corporations profit. this, to me, is transparent.
further, as i said earlier, the corporations know paul won't win. or, i should say, they are betting against his victory. that is why they are funding the 2 frontrunners, of old.
i see ron paul's support as a true indicator of both, lame, political parties.
for republicans: ron paul is one of the only candidates that sees the danger of military imperialism. that fears the theory of the unitary executive.
for democrats: he is a man with guts, unafraid to challenge the post-9/11 assumptions. and it is commendable.
milquetoast @ 30:
Ha. I like how Symes completely blew you out of the water with that response, and what do you do? Quietly change the subject. Hilarious!
milquetoast @ 44:
i know you fail to grasp this concept. understood.
so.... let me try to dumb this down a bit....
the leading candidates (ok, all the candidates with the exception of kucinich) are corporate lackeys.
they support the status quo of corporate domination.
all of them do (again, kucinich aside).
thus, none are a threat to the corporatocracy.
corporations, in deciding who to give the most support to look at political campaigns like horse races in progress. they want to bet on the winner, and then look to rake in govt favors later.
ron paul, of course, would be the biggest gift to corporations.
THE. BIGGEST. GIFT.
but, knowing/assuming that paul will not win the election, they decide to support a candidate that will win. and, as i mentioned, those that are polling highest are NO threat to corporate power.
does that help with your computation?
Paul isn't rolling in corporate cash because corporations don't throw their money away. Paul is a whack job and he's perceived as a whack job by a large chunk of the electorate. Corporations know he hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of winning. We've already had a time in American history when the corporations ran free, unfettered by government regulation. It was the time that led to the Great Depression, with all the money in the hands of corporations and people dying for hunger, giving their children away for lack of a way to feed them.
Paul's ideas aren't "new." They have in fact been proven to fail miserably.
milquetoast @ 42:
You keep ignoring the facts and making up straw arguments about something I never said.
Typical RP fan bot action.
Wrap your head around this OK?:
RP is not electable.
Period.
The MSM will ignore him and he will not make the ticket.
The corporations, as you have already been told, will not give any money to an anti war candidate. They make too much money from the FUD and the destruction.
And they will not give money to someone who is unelectable.
And again you are cheering on a candidate that you have done no research on, that is absolutely stupid of you.
You dance around the fact that you know nothing of Libertarianism. I described Libertarianism accurately when I called it Anarchisms evil corporate twin.
You had better go read up on what that means before you make more of an ass of yourself here amongst the informed.
If you do know what it means to be a Libertarian as you claim, then you already know that I am not exaggerating.
That means you are just here to spread disinformation and lie to confuse those not quite conversant on the topic of what the Libertarians really espouse.
So you are either full of shit because you don't know, or you do know and are prevaricating and obfuscating which again makes you full of shit.
I'm betting you won't discuss Libertarianism here because you know nothing about it.
Either way it matters not because either way you are full of shit fan boy.
phantom @ 46:
everybody wants clean water, food, environment ect ect. something like that goes without saying...
it didnt deserve a response!!! who the hell wants to allow corporations to pollute. not me. I'm human.
I just dont see Ron Paul (a maternity doctor) allowing corporations to pollute our environment.
...ridiculous!
milquetoast @ 50:
Then you know nothing of Libertarianism.
Go educate yourself.
milquetoast @ 50:
Wow yeah, Ron Paul the Deregulator!
sounds like Corporations should be lining up w/ money in hand!
Explain to me Symes, since you are an educated man, why corporations are givin all their money to Hillary and Giuliani.
I cant wait for this one.
Ha. I like how Symes completely blew you out of the water with that response, and what do you do? Quietly change the subject. Hilarious!
everybody wants clean water, food, environment ect ect. something like that goes without saying...
it didnt deserve a response!!! who the hell wants to allow corporations to pollute. not me. I'm human.
I just dont see Ron Paul (a maternity doctor) allowing corporations to pollute our environment.
...ridiculous!
What do you think Ron Paul means when he says he wants to dismantle regulatory agencies like the EPA? Do you actually think that corporations will voluntarily abstain from polluting? And what the fuck does "maternity doctor" have to do with anything?
milquetoast @ 50:
not to be overtly rude, but this really shows your naivety.
you support a candidate the wants to deregulate everything. how, then, is the maternity doctor going to stop water pollution (continuing the example)? seriously? just b/c you want clean water (or whatever) doesn't mean there will be clean water. obviously. so, let's say the corporation X finds that dumping untreated water in the local stream saves them millions of dollars. they will do it, who will stop them? you? not the baby doctor, that would be governmental interference.
i think you don't want to respond to that b/c you realize that you can't.
honestly, i think you need to step back and realize what you advocate. it, seriously, is self-conflicting.
Symes @ 51:
Exactly! If you don't see Ron Paul doing this... look closer!
Please help:
I am a former Nader-voter, so I like a lot of Ron Paul's positions (as I'm sure you all do)
-Civil liberties
-Bring troops home from around the world
-No NAFTA, IMF, World Bank, corporate welfare, drug war, etc.
I think we wouldn't have to worry about drug safety as much if we'd switch to natural/preventative health care.
I think we wouldn't have to worry about polluters so much if they had to compete with green energy and we taxed pollution.
I think the trillions of dollars we'd save would out-weigh all these free-market fears.
But I'm no economist, so what am I missing?
Mike @ 55:
Wow. I can't believe you voted for Nader, and think Ron Paul is ok.
phantom @ 46:
Yeah, these RP fan bots are Repugs you know. Same troll tactics different product being pushed.
Always a Repug being sold/defended/spun though, and always so quick to spin off in a different direction as soon as their arguments are shown to be the hollow shells full of stench that they really are.
This is old hat, the only thing new is that it isn't the current administration being pushed.
What these guys want is to get Dems to cross over. Nothing more.
Mike @ 55:
That he a Libertarian.
The whole platform is free unregulated market economy.
No FDA, no EPA, no HUD, no regulation of any kind.
That IS the platform.
At that point there is only really one question to ask yourself, how much do you trust the corporations?
Mike @ 55:
miss kitty and symes are correct...
that said, there is nothing wrong with the IMF and the world bank. if we got back to their keynesian roots, and away from the neoliberal neocolonialism, they could function as important international organizations. they were created with the best intentions, but the reagan revolution (and the thatcher wacker) brought with it neoliberalism. which, under no uncertain terms, IS economic imperialism. today, they are (and i hate to use this word) evil. to be fought against. to be confronted. to be challenged. but if they could go back to their original ideology--that of preventing what the washington consensus advocates--they could help alleviate a lot of suffering and corporate slavery---exactly what they create now....
Symes @ 58: That he a Libertarian.
Well, I never said I wasn't a libertarian, I just said I voted for Nader, and I listed some of the platforms that they share.
So the L word doesn't really scare me.
sorry for the f-ed up code.
Mike @ 60:
Well, I never said I wasn't a libertarian, I just said I voted for Nader, and I listed some of the platforms that they share.
So the L word doesn't really scare me.
So you trust the corporations to do what is right over profit in order to make sure they weren't killing or polluting?
That is what you are saying.
They after all have done such a bang up job over the years that there are millions of laws created to regulate their misbehavior AFTER the fact, those regulations are there BECAUSE they were needed after some corporation or industry did something horrific.
And just to let you know, it is illegal for a corporation to do anything that cuts into its profit margins for its shareholders UNLESS the action is forced to do so by regulatory statutes. If they suddenly got socially conscious at the expense of profit they would be sued by their shareholders.
So by law they are not allowed to be socially conscious unless they are required by law to do so.
Once again, just to be clear, how much do you trust them to do the right thing?
Sorry, I should have caught the missing blockquote tag as well.
Mike @ 60:
Well, I never said I wasn't a libertarian, I just said I voted for Nader, and I listed some of the platforms that they share.
So the L word doesn't really scare me.
He did answer your question. Just because you consider yourself a Libertarian doesn't mean that you have some great reason for supporting complete corporate dominance of the country.
Also, Ralph Nader is anything but a Libertarian. He has worked tirelessly to protect the public from corporate exploitation, which is the opposite of what Ron Paul promotes. Privatization, deregulation, and cuts in social spending deprive the public of any power. If you are only out to make a profit, then these "freedoms" and "rights" of the public are simply obstacles. Where did you get the crazy idea that corporations actually have the public's interests at heart?
As much as I despise certain functions of the government, I'm smart enough to know that the government is the only thing protecting our few, precious liberties from the insatiable hunger of corporate greed.
I never said I trust corporations, or that Nader and Paul are the same thing, or that I'm a libertarian, or not a libertarian (I'm a cancer with scorpio rising)...
But, well, this is from his website:
This site is called 'Crooks and Liars', is it not? I dont think this site should ever shy away from reporting on Ron Paul. He's uncorruptable, honest and pure and should be given a frickin gold star by the standards of this website. Him and his kid brother Kucinich =)
I'm glad C&L doesnt have the same insane, conflicted and moronic bias DailyKos does. You guys should all be supporting Ron Paul on principle alone, even if you don't agree with his positions. Out of the entirety of the House, how many politicians can you say match his level of integrity? Almost none. How's that Harry Reid thing goin? Or that Nancy Pelosi?
This is not a Democrat or Republican thing. This is a Constitutionalist thing. By and large everyone in congress is a shill. Alot of crooks and liars there for this website to report on.
I basically considered myself more or less a Democrat until earlier this year. But I can't do it anymore, you know why? Big government. We have big gov dems and big gov repubs, and nothing works. Go ahead, admit it. You know its true, nothing is working. We voted those big gov dems into Congress and what do they do? Sell us all out to the Neocon movement. They're just as insane as that Christian terrorist we have in the White House today.
We all want to get rid of the Neocons. It's beyond obvious at this point that they've been bad for the country. Which do you think will be more effective at accomplishing this... partisan attacks from the left, like Kos does? Or *fixing* the Republican party from within, restoring its honor and integrity. This should matter to everybody.
Support for Ron Paul is support for America.
Mike @ 65:
Right.
You have the right to sue a multi billion dollar corporation for polluting your land.
Right.
And when the corporation claims the laws that allow you to sue them are a form of regulation what then?
The laws and regulations that are in place right now are there BECAUSE some entity has already done something that required them to be there. Regulation is not random, haphazard or put in place just because Congresscritters needed something to do. In fact, industry regulation is difficult to get on the books because the corporations make it hard to create any regulation that would limit them.
So any regulation in effect is there for a very good reason, usually connected with some past corporate/industry transgression.
So to think that your limited ability to sue an entity that has many multi millions of times more money than you have is a fantasy, and the corporations who back this sort of thing know it.
That is once again utopianism of the same stripe as Anarchism.
I would think Anarchism would be more viable since it involves real people who have to live next to each other to work.
But we all know our neighbors are only going to do what is in their self interest and you can be damned.
What makes you think your neighbor with 370 million and a fully staffed legal department will do any less?
Richard C of NYC @ 66:
Try again.
RP supporters are for the most part the same Repug trolls who were administration supporters last year.
Just trying to get us to jump the aisle and vote Repug.
And it IS a Repug thing. Make no mistake.
Symes @ 68:
I won't waste my time trying to convince you to support RP. So do me a favor... support Kucinich. He is at least a principled Constitutionalist and nobody can dispute that. Or at a very minimum support Obama. He's probably corruptable but at least he can be an inspiring speaker from time to time =)
I hope that helps convince you that I'm very serious. And I think we do have some goals in common, such as the utter destruction of the Neocons. You shouldn't judge RP supporters so quickly, we're some of the most independantly motivated people active in this election cycle =)
Mike @ 65:
You have implied all of the above. A supporter of Ron Paul (which I assume you are) is also a supporter of an unregulated "free" market, and a supporter of Libertarianism. Unless you enjoy it when others mistakenly mischaracterize your position, you should work on your diction.
This is obviously just empty rhetoric. Here is a paraphrase of the above paragraph: We don't need to regulate the private sector at all because THE PEOPLE will do the regulation instead! Each and every time a corporation commits a "crime" (what constitutes a corporate crime will change under a Paul administration), then Joe Shmuck can simply sue the multi-billion dollar company with ease. Without any regulations, there will be no more "regulatory tap dancing" for corporations, and um... everyone will live happily ever after.
RP fan bots need to be just a tad more critical about their new messiah.
Richard C of NYC @ 69:
I won't waste my time trying to convince you to support RP. So do me a favor... support Kucinich. He is at least a principled Constitutionalist and nobody can dispute that. Or at a very minimum support Obama. He's probably corruptable but at least he can be an inspiring speaker from time to time =)
I hope that helps convince you that I'm very serious. And I think we do have some goals in common, such as the utter destruction of the Neocons. You shouldn't judge RP supporters so quickly, we're some of the most independantly motivated people active in this election cycle =)
WTF? First someone compares Ron Paul to Nader, and now we have someone who thinks that Paul and Kucinich have similar platforms?! PLEASE take a few moments to look beyond their anti-war stance, and explore what each candidates' platform is really about. These two candidates, more often then not, have the exact opposite views.
I have been on this site and others on the "left" for the past bushie years as have many of the other Ron Paul supporters that comment here. I watched many of you take down all the Neo Con straw men and other false logic arguments. Now it is sad to see you doing the same RahRah! 4 More Years! crap that the bushies have done.
You totally mischaracterize Ron Pauls positions OR you try to use a label of "libertarianism" the way the Neo Cons use the label "Islamo Fascism"... its totally ignoble of you all. There ARE honorable and VALID points of view on the conservative side... the NeoCons simply have shut them out... until Ron Paul got his Revolution.
We are only one spark away from sweeping away all these traitors and bribe takers and bribe givers in OUR Washington D.C. .. that spark is simply laying down the labels and joining those on the other side that have started to wake up from the bushie years. Many are still fighting against the truths they are learning now that they are talking to us that are coming from the "left".. they are struggling with the ideas of seperation of church and state and global warming... I know because I am on the Ron Paul forums on various sites everyday and there the left and the right are talking and finding they like each other as Americans if nothing else and are fighting together to push for a real change.
Go to You Tube and search "Ron Paul" and then watch at least 20 videos of Ron Paul speaking... THEN you will see the mischaracterizations you are relying on are false.
Richard C of NYC @ 69:
I won't waste my time trying to convince you to support RP. So do me a favor... support Kucinich. He is at least a principled Constitutionalist and nobody can dispute that. Or at a very minimum support Obama. He's probably corruptable but at least he can be an inspiring speaker from time to time =)
I hope that helps convince you that I'm very serious. And I think we do have some goals in common, such as the utter destruction of the Neocons. You shouldn't judge RP supporters so quickly, we're some of the most independantly motivated people active in this election cycle =)
Fair enough, Kucinich is a no brainer for me. The guy has integrity and he's not out in right field with his ideology.
RP fans, while motivated, for the most part have no idea what Libertarianism a really espousing. That is my problem with them.
Gerald Gibson @ 72:
Libertarianism is what I have said it is, there is no need to make up anything about it.
It is as far right wing as it gets, and it is a corporatist wet dream.
I am not interested in hearing RP spin his ideology any more than I would be interested in hearing Rove spin his.
I instead do what you should be doing and go to the source for the information I need to make an informed decision.
With Rove I read PNAC's papers and got to know what they were really pushing (it was NOTHING like what they claimed).
Same goes for RP.
Go and learn what Libertarianism really is before you make any more ignorant statements on a public board please.
Symes ... You once again resorted to your lame NeoCon like "Islamo Fascism" name calling... "Libertarianism" means different things to different people and many (if not most) of the Ron Paul people dont care about Libertarianism in the slightist. Many also dont care about any other party for that matter. We are not operating off ideologies.. that is what many on the left has been saying about the NeoCons.. and now that is what the left itself is doing with Ron Paul. If you would do what the NeoCons themselves refuse to do and go watch Ron Pauls own words and his solutions you will see that Republican and Libertarian has little to do with it... it is about LOGIC and cause/effect and understanding that the founding fathers had all these same problems we have today with corporations and corrupt parliment and over powerful executive... and so they made a system to prevent that... and we have totally crippled the Constitution over the years and now we suffer from those violations and we blame the Constitution itself!!! As being outdated!!?!?!
There is more than ONE way to solve a problem.. More than one way to regulate corporations.... government programs CAN work until they become corrupt with corporate bribary ... err.. lobbying... free market solutions work except in a few emergency situations like the great depression. What we have now is NOT free market capitalism.. it is exactly what the great U.S. Marine hero Smedley Butler found the corporatists were trying to do back in the 1930s... a soft fascism. We have corporate power using the immense power of the federal government. Take that power away and then how do they use that power? Bribe all 50 states? The federal government would be left with the power to punish violations of the Constitution and to enforce the laws of Congress. The states would be left with the rest. With the power of the Internet today it has been proven that the states and private industry can organize without being forced to by the federal government.
Gerald Gibson @ 75:
And you are doing your best to tap dance around the facts.
I am presenting the truth to you unlike any NeoCon ever would.
If you choose to live in some BS fantasy that is your concern.
Free market capitalism without any restraints leads directly to fascism.
It is the nature of corporations to gather power and control, to drive all competition out of business and to cut as many corners as possible in the pursuit of profit.
Libertarianism has EVERYTHING to do with RP, you are just being disingenuous when you claim otherwise.
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Forgive FCC chairman Kevin Martin, for he knows not what he does, or does he?
Symes @ 76:
I think you are confused. Moreover everything Ron Paul stands for is 100% opposite of fascism.
"Fascism rejects the liberal doctrines of individual autonomy and rights, political pluralism, and representative government"
You do know that Ron Paul is FOR individual autonomy, FOR protecting our rights and FOR a representative government, right? Or perhaps you don't really know anything about Ron Paul other than he ran for president once as a Libertarian...
Symes @ 76:
It is the nature of corporations to maximize profit. What you fail to understand is that in a FREE MARKET, it is the nature of the market to reward the corporations with the best operation. If my business cuts cost by using lead paint on baby toys, how long do you think I'm going to last in a free market before I go out of business? Only an idiot would continue to buy my lead tainted toys. And the people that have been harmed by the lead painted toys now have grounds for seeking damages against me. Yet somehow I am supposed to become a huge and powerful money grabbing corporation despite the fact that I now have no customers and am getting sued left and right?
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noitaluspacne @ 79:
You RP fan bots are a riot!
Take a good hard look at the effects of recent deregulation, OK?
If that won't wake you fan bots up then nothing will.
Look, why don't you RP clowns just come right out and say it:
You are Republicans.
Simple.
Admit it already, you use their arguments and espouse their ideology anyway.
So come out and say it and be done with it.
It will save us the BS and we can get right to blasting you out of the water without the little lie between us.
You in particular noitaluspacne, that was straight outta the Republican Bible there.
Symes @ 81:
So, the answer to all problems is more government then? Even when the current government is clearly incompetent and or corrupt?
noitaluspacne @ 83:
Back to the old Repug standby of making shit up eh?
I didn't say that.
I said deregulation is not the solution, that it will lead to even greater problems. Problems like you've never seen before.
You on the other hand just got done spitting out Republican corporate ideology almost verbatim.
Good job.
Symes @ 82:
Wow, you are seriously off you rocker... or in need of taking your meds... did you think that everyone that posts on this site is a card carrying democrat? I am a republican! But I didn't vote for Bush either time... It isn't my fault! :)
FYI Republican != Neoconservative
The republican party of today has been overrun with neoconservatives. The republican party fears Ron Paul because they are afraid he might actually restore the party to its original principles. Which will leave the neoconservatives no voice to speak from in this 2 party system.
Of all the possible republican candidates, is there really a better choice than Ron Paul?
Phantom @ 71:
yeah, I did.
-Civil liberties
-Bring troops home from around the world
-No NAFTA, IMF, World Bank, corporate welfare, drug war, etc.
Where was I wrong?
I'm not a RP "supporter" meaning I haven't made up my mind. I simply came to discuss. I'M AN IN-DE-PEN-DENT. (This is the main thing that I hate about the left. The right may be sheep, but the left can be douches (pardon my french)).
That said, you all might find it interesting that Ralph Nader may vote for Ron Paul.
So, you know, chew on that.
noitaluspacne @ 85:
Dude, fuck the Republicans OK?
And fuck RP, he's a Repug loon.
Man did I ever call you on your bullshit right out the gate.
Forget that. I got punked. =o[
Mike @ 88:
Yeah well, that's what RP and the Repugs are all about.
Punking you.
Wow the Ron Paul haters here are wrong he is electable.
And Sane.
And would follow the Constitution.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property
until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson
Author of the Declaration of Independance, Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom, and
Father of the University of Virginia
Symes @ 87:
Dude, fuck the Republicans OK?
And fuck RP, he's a Repug loon.
Man did I ever call you on your bullshit right out the gate.
Um yeah, congratulations. Your insightful posts are a great contribution to this website. ;)
noitaluspacne @ 91:
Um yeah, congratulations. Your insightful posts are a great contribution to this website. ;)
Perhaps you should read the posts on the thread then post.
As for taking the word of a Republican about jumping the shark and voting for a Republican, right.
And I WAS right about you, like it or not.
You are on a progressive blog here Repug, no mercy.
Talcott @ 90:
We, the denizens of this PROGRESSIVE blog, tell you over and over we won't vote for a Repug and yet here you fan bots are still acting like it's a surprise that you get kicked around.
The quality of the fan bots alone negates RP from the picture even if he wasn't a far right extremist loon.
I'd hate to pop your little mono chromatic world ...Symes but....
Refute the qoute as compared to modern reality
and while your at it take your juvenille deragatory labels
and keep it with that big bad can of hotair whoop ass you boost about.
Talcott @ 94:
Why? The quote is Jefferson's not RP's.
I do not dispute it's premise. I dispute RP's solution.
As for electable, we shall see won't we?
So what exactly are you on about, besides stumping for a Repug candidate here on a progressive blog?
Give up Symes. They've found their little cult of personality man and reason be damned. You'll never convince them otherwise.
miss_kitty @ 96:
Yeah, pretty pathetic.
Just a bunch of moron Repugs here to peel off Dem/Indy votes over to the Repugs.
Must suck having the party disintegrate the way it has. Enough to hang out here trying to get converts to the lost cause.
Ron Paul STRONGLY opposes our illegal war, will not make spanish an official US language (as the democrats have promised to do), and will protect our borders. That is good enough for me. The only candidate with these positions on the right or left. It is called p-r-i-n-c-i-p-l-e-s; say it slowly. It goes hand in hand with integrity, honesty, and doing the right thing.
All the socialist posters on this website should vote for Paul; he wants to legalize the marijuana you all are obviously smoking. It's called freedom; live it, vote for it. Truly educate yourselves.
Yes, he wants freedom for business and individuals across the board. And yes, no more freebies from unca sam, you hippies will have to work for a living, which is what is really bothering you, isn't it?
Ken Pope @ 98:
No, it's the starving and dying at the end of our usefulness that bothers us.
That and the poisoning that will bring that end quicker.
And again, what are you Repugs doing on a progressive blog trying to sell us your idiot?
Ken Pope @ 98:
BTW, I KNOW I make more than your sorry ass. Only a broke dick would post what you did.
Samson- @ 53:
There is no shortage of lawyers waiting to sue polluters or anyone else that harms others. This Ron Paul hostility goes way beyond the norm. You people need to listen to the man rather than reading fabrications into what he says. He is hated by big business because he is honest and principled, two things that mean death to bullies.
Ken Pope @ 101:
And you need to really read up on Libertarianism, ti would seem you don't really understand it all that well.
Symes @ 99:
Funny thing, I am a recovering democrat. But after this summer, when the insane tried to legalize 20 million illegal aliens I through in with the redneck republicans. I objected to sexism/ racism anyway (affirmative action, discrimination against white males). You see, for me it's not about being PC, it's about principles). Socialism is state mandated theft. Robin Hood was a thief and had to live in the woods because of it. I'm sure some of you socialists would have put him up in the castle. Stealing from a poor family to give to a poorer family is theft. The difference is that the poor family earned their money, it was not stolen through government.
BTW - Again for the dense:
RP is a repug, this is a progressive hang out.
Suspicion? Check.
Disbelief? Check.
Hostility? Check.
Ken Pope @ 103:
The NeoCons say the same thing, recovering Democrats you know.
And that old cold war BS, not going to fly.
That you repeat it shows your ignorance of how things are in the rest of the world.
Europe? Social democracies are the rule.
Europe? Highest quality of life in the world. Longest lifespans in the world. Lowest stress levels in thew world. Healthiest populations in the world. Highest overall intelligence in the world. Best educated in the world. Lowest birth death rates in the world.
Yeah, you keep on talking there NeoCon, nobody here is listening.
See Symes, you cut off one head, and two spring back in its place. These are the kinds of people, in their millions, who drink the corporate kool-aid and believe all that oligarchic shit. The masses. And their opiate of the moment. Religion, telly, big-money sports, the latest technical gear, the fastest car, the biggest house, credit cards-whatever. What ever it takes NOT TO THINK.
miss_kitty @ 106:
This last one damn near admits to being a NeoCon outright! Unbelievable!
And I keep seeing the anti socialist cold war rhetoric from these clowns. How regressive of them.
Symes @ 99:
miss_kitty @ 106:
And you know, they can't afford any of it themselves.
They just think it may happen someday so best to hedge for it.
Suckers is the word that comes to mind.
Ken Pope @ 108:
So you were an idiot before you were an idiot and now you are back to being an idiot (albeit a racist right wing one this time around)?
So now you'll vote for the principled idiot because that will make it all better and save you from the hippies and fags and Mexicans and blacks, right?
Thanks for clearing that up.
Idiot.
Symes, I just gotta say this is one of the largest piles of shit I have ever seen smeared across one thread.
Ok, so you (attempt) to explain that Ron Paul doesnt get big corporate money because he has no chance of winning, and the corporations arent going to waste their money on someone unelectable. Well guess what? ...that may change soon, as his popularity is growing and I guess we will see then, when he becomes mainstream,if the corporate donations start rolling in...as your logic would predict...
so whats your excuse for big corps not supporting the libertarian party all along? Libertarians have been around for years. If Libertarians are truly the corporate saviors that you would have us believe. The libertarian party (in general) should be rolling in cash!!!
what say you?
'splain to me Lucy!
When I play the follow the money game I always seem to find Hillary or Rudy at the end...
how do you play follow the money? ...backwards I guess...
miss_kitty @ 106:
It is amazing that you people reinforce your opinions amonst yorselves but when presented with another opinion it is attacked. So much for the "open minded" socialist. But what would one expect from a thieving mentality unfamiliar with principled thought?
It just so happens I am an religious skeptic who had the privilege of opening a door for Madelyn O'Hare during a 1989 American Atheists convention after her hip surgery. Back from the dead and virgin births are for the insane. I assure you I am completely rational.
Again, RP is a Repug, what the hell do you expect coming here?
You like abuse, right?
I can give that to you, just keep up the idiocy and I'll just keep kicking you.
Gratis, with a smile. :)
milquetoast @ 111:
Electability moron, as has already been explained to your dense as hell ass.
Ken Pope @ 112:
And you're still an idiot.
Dude, WTF? Quite your whining! You come here to progressive central and cry when your Repug lovin ass gets kicked, how stupid is that!
Oh NOEs Symes! now they're coming after me! And you're being gummed to death by 'milquetoast!' Ken Pope is calling me 'You People' oh noes! The horror of a Ron Paul attack! And apparently I need to know he is an religious skeptic, in case I'm a holy roller! I guess all sorts of religiosity is creeping through on my posts!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Symes @ 110:
Okay, please address the following issue. Affirmative action supports entitlement for women and minorities. Do you disagree that this is a sex and race based policy? I did not create the policy, I only react to it. Of course, by this sexist/racist (not of my doing) policy the only group excluded is white males.
Also, remain consistent. Is Mexico "racist" when it deports a foreign national of another race?
[Okay. This thread is careering off topic. Would you take this to the open thread? And quit calling each other names. You can deride one another's ideas, but lay off the personal stuff. Thanks-Sitemonitor]
Symes @ 114:
Simple, the dems and republicans actively undermine third party candidates including working to keep them off the ballots and corporation owned TV news.
Ken Pope @ 118:
Yup, electability.
RP isn't.
Best of luck pushing an un electable Republican candidate here on the progressive blog site.
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
[Deleted. Attack the idea, not the person. Oh, and please take your discussion to the open thread. Thanks-Sitemonitor]
It's getting late and I am getting tired of running circles with every fresh crew member you clowns want to wake up.
I've already mangled all of your arguments, feel free to choose from the many rock solid answers I have already given and sulk.
[Deleted. I have asked you nicely to stop this line of off topic commentary. Please be respectful of this site-Sitemonitor]
phantom @ 64:
As much as I despise certain functions of the government, I'm smart enough to know that the government is the only thing protecting our few, precious liberties from the insatiable hunger of corporate greed.
mmmpf
BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA
your kidding right? ....government...protecting our liberties very funny!
Ken Pope @ 121:
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milquetoast @ 122:
Government provides courts which protect liberties on a regular basis.
Of course, they protect MORE of your liberties if you have cash.
Ken Pope @ 123:
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Talcott @ 90:
There would be some justice in that.
However, my fathers didn't conquer this continent. My fathers fought for civil rights, not the murder of native americans. My fathers fought to establish the United Nations, not try to disband it and try to return to the HATEFUL doctrine of absolute sovereignty. My fathers fought to end pollution, not to eliminate environmental protection laws like Ron Paul wants to do. My fathers established a woman's medical rights, and not like Ron Paul, a DOCTOR, who refuses to allow women to choose if they choose, in EVERY STATE in this country.
My fathers thought you clowns with your monetary paranoia and your anti-liberal agenda should have stayed in the 1600s where you would be happier, living colonially and minting your own coins with the face of Cotton Mather.
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I have debated Ron Paul supporters many times now, and I have noticed a few things:
-Firstly, their rhetoric. Whenever I hear that right-wing meme of "big government," a red flag goes up in my head. I immediately get the impression that this person is oblivious to the dangers of "big business" (which is a far larger threat to our rights and liberties). RP supporters also love to mention that Ron Paul is "honest," has "integrity," and is a "maternity doctor" (You would not believe how often I hear this). Unfortunately, these frames are either completely meaningless, or irrelevant to Ron Paul's qualifications to be president.
-Secondly, RP supporters tend to ignore, and sidestep, facts. You cannot continue to say that massive privatization, deregulation, and cuts in social spending are good things when each and every time this has occurred in countries all over the world, it has made the rich richer and the poor poorer. I urge anyone who still believes this lie to read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein. Though it might sound great in theory, unfettered free market capitalism simply does not work. Period.
-Thirdly, RP supporters, similar to neoconservatives, love to downplay the need for government regulation and social welfare. No matter how well I try to explain it to them, they stick to their mantra, "Big government bad. Small government good." Yes, let's ignore the New Deal, the success of the Scandinavian countries, the rights that we have worked so hard to obtain, etc. No facts will ever sway a RP supporter.
Of course, these discussions are not about converting the wackos. It is about giving everyone else who reads these comments a chance to witness the controversy surrounding Ron Paul, and give them a chance to make up their own minds. The more we progressives debate and challenge these dangerous views, the less likely it is that we will have to endure the Libertarian Party's nightmarish vision.
And what about welfare.....?
Welfare for the MIC surly we agree that that must be cut?
Phantom @ 134:
Are you serious? If people only elected politicians that had integrity, our country wouldn't be in the mess it is today. Integrity is the single most important attribute that our elected officials should demonstrate. Honesty is just another form of integrity. Having a politician that can talk honestly with the people is far more important than one that will dishonestly tell the people what they want to hear.
The corruption that is rampant in our government is what is turning people off from more government based solutions. You cannot give large sums of money to a corrupt group of people and expect them to do the right thing.
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Look, it's really very simple.
RP wants unfettered free market capitalism at the expense of all social programs and regulations that keep us as consumers and employees safe from what would otherwise be a rapid return to the Gilded Age.
RP supporters also focus on the anti war stance and return to Constitutional authority (although what he means is a return to 1796 definitions of the Constitution) while conveniently ignoring or pretending that RP does not hold the extreme right wing views of Libertarianism.
RP supporters also equate social programs with robbery and communism.
In order to do this RP supporters will ignore the very real situations of a completely free, healthy vibrant northern Europe that contradicts they claims they are making. A northern Europe where the citizens are healthier, happier and enjoy a higher standard of living that the US does by orders of magnitude.
You are quite correct to say that I have been rude, I see no need to be civil to someone who tells me that it is my best interest to strip myself of protections for corporate profit, someone who preaches corporate profit above all and that corporations will protect me if I just give them the chance.
In other words I see no need to be delicate with right wing hackery when it comes to a progressive blog masquerading as the alternative to right wing hackery. OK?
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Most of all my little RP bots, I take great satisfaction in knowing that RP has as much of a chance of winning as DK does.
As in no chance at all.
Don't get too apoplectic when he doesn't even make the ticket.
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Always with the cold war rhetoric, it gives your mind sets there RP bots.
Stuck in the 50's wishing it was 1796, sound about right?
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