Why We Fight--Gilliard At His Best
The recent NY Times article on the late, great Steve Gilliard made fresh for me the loss that I (and many others) feel over his silenced voice. At his best, Gilly was ferocious and challenging (though John Amato through his calls with him tells me that he was a sweetheart in real life; I never got the particular pleasure of speaking to him on the phone). I've spent a lot of time looking over various blog posts about Gilly this weekend and this link by "truth" at FDL came flooding back for me just how much Steve Gilliard could incite such emotions. It was this post that I read that dark day in November 2004 when I realized we would be forced to endure another four years of George W. Bush & Co. So on this eve of a new year, just days away from the onset of the primary season to select the new president, I want you to read (or re-read) Gilly's words of The Fighting Liberal:
You know, I've studied history, I've read about America and you know something, if it weren't for liberals, we'd be living in a dark, evil country, far worse than anything Bush could conjure up. A world where children were told to piss on the side of the road because they weren't fit to pee in a white outhouse, where women had to get back alley abortions and where rape was a joke, unless the alleged criminal was black, whereupon he was hung from a tree and castrated.
What has conservatism given America? A stable social order? A peaceful homelife? Respect for law and order? No. Hell, no. It hasn't given us anything we didn't have and it wants to take away our freedoms.
The Founding Fathers, as flawed as they were, slaveowners and pornographers, smugglers and terrorists, understood one thing, a man's path to God needed no help from the state. Is the religion of these conservatives so fragile that they need the state to prop it up, to tell us how to pray and think? Is that what they stand for? Is that their America?
Conservatism plays on fear and thrives on lies and dishonesty. I grew up with honest, decent conservatives and those people have been replaced by the party of greed. It is one thing to want less government interference and smaller, fiscally responsible government. It is another thing entirely to be a corporate whore, selling out to the highest bidder because the CEO fattens your campaign chest. They are building an America which cannot be sustained. One based on the benefit of the few at the cost of the many. The indifferent boss who hires too few people and works them to death or until they break down sick. Cheap labor capitalism has replaced common sense. "Globalism" which is really guise for exploitation, replaced fair trade, which is nothing like fair for the trapped semi-slaves of the maquliadoras. In the Texas border towns, hundreds of these women have been used as sex slaves and then apparently killed,the FBI powerless to do anything as the criminals sit in Mexico untouched by law.For the better part of a decade, the conservatives made liberal a dirty word. Well, it isn't. It represents the best and most noble nature of what America stands for: equitable government services, old age pensions, health care, education, fair trials and humane imprisonment. It is the heart and soul of what made American different and better than other countries. Not only an escape from oppression, but the opportunity to thrive in land free of tradition and the repression that can bring. We offered a democracy which didn't enshrine the rich and made them feel they had an obligation to their workers.
RIP, Gilly. And f*ck the f*cking Yankees! (sorry, Amato)
And it never will give, only take...
I have no idea why you think these elections will change anything. It's like putting getting stoked that you're getting a new prison guard while you're serving life on death row,...
The country has stood by to watch two illegal wars, the deaths of American soldiers, prison camps, torture, no justice for those who did commit 9/11, the emptying of the treasury,& the raping of the Constitution. The idiots in power must be making bets with each other to see how fuct they can act without us saying a word.
Nothing is going to change until it all comes crashing down & these trust fund kids can't fill up their Range Rovers with $3.79 gas on mommy's platinum card.
Conservatism has value. Let's not go over the edge here. Liberals are "gas" and Conservatives are "brakes". I wouldn't want to live in a world consisting only of either. Moderation is a key. Compromise is a key. Liberals and Conservatives are Yin and Yang. Let's not polarize ourselves more than we already have. I'm for liberal causes but let's not lose perspective.
Without a Liberal Media there would be only lies and propaganda.
Or FOX if you will.
I've had differences of opinion with Steve on a few occasions while posting on his blog (He was the only blog host to call me a stupid motherfucker :-)), but you always knew he was on the right side of issues. He was a forceful voice for progressives everywhere, and his loss is truly a painful one. That blog entry should be posted on the editorial page of every newspaper in the country; it should be posted on every Liberal blog; it should be read by every man, woman, and child in the country. These are the profound words of a truly great man and patriot. REST IN PEACE, STEVE!
JohnnyThief @ 2:
Your mostly right Johnny, Americans HAVE to get up off their fat asses, get off the couch, realize that they have already lost their freedom, which was mostly a delusion. They have to stand up to the Corporations by not buying what they are putting out.
Will this happen? ... Maybe a small amount will, but for the most part. Americans are lazy and wont act until their wallets are empty and they can't afford a beer.
JohnnyThief @ 2:
Because I have to, for my children's sake. Otherwise, there is no reason to keep fighting and to try to make the country a better place.
This country has been through worse times. Hard as it is to imagine, we have. The Civil War, the Depression, WWII--all times where we've seen drastic economic struggles, civil rights issues and a divided electorate. Do you want to tell the blacks who fought so hard for civil rights that they had it easy? How about the Japanese-Americans who were interned during WWII? Were they pussies compared to us? I find it laughable to suggest.
We've always pulled through. Probably not quick enough for those living through it, but we've always survived. In fact, the greatest advancement in progressive ideals happen after these kind of dark days (the New Deal, Reconstruction, etc.) with the hard work of people like us who refuse to be daunted.
So go ahead and be cynical and think that there is no difference between parties and nothing will get better.
I, on the other hand, choose to be one of Gilly's fighting liberals.
Barry @ 3:
Oh bullshit! You know what? Go peddle that "compromise is the key" horseshit to your buddies on the Right. Next time they compare Liberals to Osama Bin Laden or Saddam, you hit em with the "compromise is the key" speech, OK? Next time one of their goosestepping minions like Michele Malkin attacks 12 year olds for asking the President to expand healtcare for children, you go and lecture them about polarization. It's funny, I don't recall hearing or reading any calls for "moderation" when the GOP thugs like Tom Delay and Bill Frist were running things. You know what, Barry - just shut the fuck up!
Whenever I think of Gilly it brings a smile to my face and a big tug at my heart. He was truly one of a kind. I consider myself lucky to have found his blog and to have read it every day. He had way more friends and admirers that he probably could have imagined.
The present day conservatives would have fought against the American Revolution, for slavery and secession, against Reconstruction, Woman's voting rights, etc. They are a backwards, regressive, racist at the core, celebrating ignorance, wishing only white people existed, group of like minded, turn back the clock for all the wrong reasons, capitalizing on fear, paranoia, hatred, anger.
gene214 @ 8:
I second that emotion...STFU Barry.
Live Free or Die! The right is full of Monarchists and unreconstructed tories!
If they are not the enemy their stupid evil beliefs are.
...and I'm a pacifist. LOL
Speaking of Cognitive Liberty, which this paragraph addresses: the drug war, and specifically the prohibition of cannabis and other entheogens, is a direct infringement on my Cognative Liberty, and an Unconstitutional one at that. Seems to me, that both "mainstream" Liberals AND Conservatives, if they don't outright support prohibition, tolerate it.
While Ron Paul is not my top choice (Kucinich is), I'd love to see "Liberals" speak as forcefully and factually against cannabis prohibition as this "conservative" does.
Liberals/Conservatives; those labels are soooo last century.
Barry @ 3:
Careful there, many who post/lurk here don't place a high value on such qualities which enable rational, caring people to compromise, such as maturity, tolerance and mutual respect.
I found Steve's blog late, but I was damn glad I did. There is really only so much compromising you can do with the current crop of f*ckers controlling conservatism, and I think we should have stopped years ago. Its like we keep showing up to the treaty table expecting honest debate and bargaining, only to be suprised they call us heathens and stick us in the middle of a desert.
They want to win at all cost, and every bit of power they gain they will use to line their pockets and buy more power. Lying is the way the "game" is played, Greed is Good, and Hate is a Godly virtue.
Their view of a compromise is us digging our own graves before they shoot us in the back, saving them the trouble of clean-up. I have been wavering in support of Edwards and Obama, but at least Edwards acknowledges the true nature of these soul suckers. Obama lost me at bipartisanship.
There are no conservatives in the US any more, only posers.
I didn't know, or know of, Gilliard.
After reading a couple of his posts, I realize that was my loss.
I live without regrets.
But it would be neat to be able to look forward to more of his work.
Hey let us look back at the prosperity our country enjoyed for 50 years of Democrat control of Congress and the belief in rising tides can lift all boats, and separation of church and state.
We became THE world power in the 20th century and especially the latter half of the 20th century. We became the beacon of Democracy because of Democratic leadership.
Look back to the mid 70's when a Democrat led Congress pushed through "campaign finance reform" that the Repugs were happy to agree with. It meant that the wealthy Repug constituancy would finally get what they wanted, a government that they could have at their disposal.
This one change helped Newt Gingrich to create GOPAC and allowed Tom DeLay to stiff arm corporations to only contribute to Repug Causes.
It has been 30 years since the Dems pushed through "campaign reform" and now we have Supreme Court Ju$tice$ that believe that taking money from $pecial intere$t for favorable outcome$ i$ free $peech.
Bribery trumps democracy.
moniker @ 15:
The genuine form of conservatism, which was respectable once, has mutated into a self centered, evil form of fascism where the only relevant thing that matters is that you win at any cost. Compromise and civil discourse are for weaklings. Anyone disagreeing with rigid Politburo philosophy is punished. Because of the hollow bankruptcy of their philosophy, their message has to be delivered by brute force of law and carried forward by fearmongering.
peaceful easy feeling @ 13:
It's not that Liberals don't place high values on those qualities, rather that we just don't trust you bunch of lying, conservative closeted cocksuckers anymore.
I didn't know I would be attacked by such narrow thinking people. I'm not conservative. I'm just not radical. I resent the "more liberal than thou" attitude you throw at me. Believe what you want but if conservatives are the enemy then you are advocating civil war and are no better than they. I've lived through the 50s and 60s. I know there was a time when people disagreed on the issues but still respected each other. If you can't tolerate my views how will you ever accomplish anything? You'll just perpetuate and enlarge the division between Americans.
Bitch all you want. I want progress. I though that's what progressivism is. If you want isolation and to cry yourselves to sleep then go ahead. I'd prefer to work on a better country. I thought we were bigger-hearted than Republicans yet you spew venom as well as any Republican. Where are personal respect and dignity? How can you fight for the down-trodden when you're trodding over people like me?
Shame on you for being a hypocrite.
peaceful easy feeling @ 13:
Thanks for reposting this C&L.
It's a great point that without Liberals the conservatives would be enjoying separate bathrooms from Blacks (and Jews by this point too)...they wouldn't have to work hard to prove they can do an equal job as women and yet should be paid more (for no apparent reason)...They could sit on their bigoted butts and spew their hate and nobody would challenge their little, feeble minds with honest and Honorable conversation and actions. They could just sit and say "I don't like Nigers" and their dipshit conservobot friends would say "I heard that!" and everyone would be happy...well, not really because they would all be broke and have 5 to 10 children (remember no abortions) and they would be working on a job that had no regulations and if they got hurt...well, that's just tough...after all it's the Conservobot Dream!
Sorry for the use of the "N" word...I don't usually use it, but if we were living in a conservative only country it would be a word heard everyday...everywhere...if history shows us anything it's the "conservatives" don't like America and they really hate Americans.
Looks like Barry is concerned about the heart and soul of the Democratic party. Apparently by not taking liars at their word we are somehow hypocritical.
Thank you Barry, for reminding me that my role in life, as a Democrat, is to make it easier for the Republicans to steamroll their merry way through our Constitution. For a second there I had forgotten my place.
Not anymore.
Been there, tried that. You go first this time.
Barry @ 20:
With all due respect, Barry, what I think you're reading is not necessarily an attack on you so much as disgust that it is ALWAYS up to progressives to do the compromising, to be the adults and work with conservatives. When we had a Republican majority in congress, they told us we were traitors and worse. We were told to leave this country. We were told that we should be rounded up and shot.
It's a little hard after seven years in that kind of wilderness to summon up civility and agree that conservatism (which does not mean the same things now as it did 20-30 years ago) is necessary for "balance".
Nicole Belle @ 7:
Hear, hear! Keep up the good work, Nicole.
Clear and invokig this Gilly.
I would have to disagree about Conservatism not giving us ahything we hadn't previously had.
Conservatism provided the obscure justification to pre empt war on Iraq.
It conger the recall to all new highs in Cion Tell Pro.
It also provide a superhero in which a US Navy ship was named after. "the Ronald Reagan".
Conservatism returns our rightful class levels of the courtrooms.
It provides a daunting illusion of moral superiority via religions fundamental sects.
So you see, not counting the transfer of tax dollars to create a wealthy class, Conservatism does bring us new pride in which we can (or have done) torture of a man in custody with merely minute suspicion of this persons knowledge if even that.
After all only when organ failure or death results, does conservatism define as torture.
I agree the current crop of Republicans stink. I agree they are crooks, liars, bullies and thieves. I work each and every day emailing, signing petitions, contributing money, making phone calls to promote a progressive agenda. I work daily to try to impeach Dick Cheney. I'm not naive but I haven't let cynicism run my life.
I don't think we should lie down and be run over by Republicans. And I think it stinks the current Dem leadership does. They frustrate and disappoint the hell out of me. But at some point we have to be better people than the Republicans. If we're not who will be? If Republicans hate America (and I believe they do), then we must fight their values. But where will your hard heart get this country. Someone has got to be the grownup. That should be us. The more we polarize ourselves the more we polarize the nation and become weaker by it.
There is a reasonable ground on which to stand -- firm but open. America has always valued different cultures, ideas, methods, etc. Why won't you? The founders of this country would be ashamed of the current political climate of which both sides are guilty. Why aren't we the first to set an example?
wijg @ 25:
Our country is so far beyond compromise at this point. Clowns like Barry are like moderate Christianist who can only shake their heads at the crazed religious loonies but unwittingly lend their support by not speaking against them.
Barry @ 29:
Its not like the Dems haven't been bending over backwards to try to get bills passed now is it?This is the most obstructionist Republican party ever.Where do you compromise?
These scum are being aided and abetted by the corporate media straight across the board:ABC,CNN,FOX,NBC...where is the "compromise"?Steve made it clear in his article that he respected the "Old" Conservative party.He was talking about what they have become.A criminal cartel.
Barry @ 29:
Because conservative culture has become evil, their ideas, twisted, and their methods, extreme.
Again, many thanks for the personal attacks. It is the mark of a true intellectual to attack the man rather than discuss the issues. It's been educational learning there is so much heat here and no light. Blame and name-calling are the highlights of this thread.
It seems the thing to do to be accepted here is to use this quote from Steve Martin's "Christmas Wish" and change it to apply to Republicans -- "And to my enemies, may you all rot like pigs in hell" -- only he meant it as a joke.
I am so disappointed in the level of "discussion" here. I didn't know this would be a nursery.
Barry,
We aren't saying we have a problem with genuine compromise, but that requires BOTH sides to deal with each other honestly, respectfully, and then to live up to their end of the bargain.
If someone calls you a traitor, Nazi sympathizer, terrorist.... etc., why would you be under the impression he/she will deal with you as equals? Why would you feel that compromise with someone that believes you to be the ENEMY is even possible?
It isn't. Because they have demonized even the most moderate of liberal policies, any compromise they engage in will be percieved as capitulation of the worst order. This is why they have basically shut down Congress.
These are not adult, rational people that want the best for the Country. They are power hungry Jackals that want to scrape every last drop of wealth out of America they can. Until we can accept the true nature of the opposition, we are going to be losers every time, and the cost of losing keeps getting higher and higher. It is damn hard to hold up bipartisanship as a worthy goal when you the other half of the equation wants to demolish you.
Barry @ 3:
Bullshit. Conservative doesn't mean conservative. Conservative means authoritarian, aristocratic rule. Liberal means freedom. That conservative and conservative are two different words is because conservatives redefined conservative. If that's confusing, ask a conservative.
Barry @ 34:
Sorry, Barry, got to call bullshit on this. I DID try to engage you on the issues and I count at least four others. You CHOOSE to focus on others and you CHOOSE to look upon them as personal attacks. Please look at yourself before complaining at the level of discussion.
Nicole Belle @ 7:
But you're not "FIGHTING"! I'm sorry, I grew up in NYC & was jumped every day, & the was abused at home. I know what a fight is, & playing up to a corrupt voting system to put in another millionaire whore who will profit off of dead Americans is about as far from a "fight" as it gets!
You're entrusting the same system that got us here! You're saying, oh, let's what we did the last time, & the time before that, & the time before that, ad infinitum. Meanwhile, the corporation will cherry pick their next candidate while everyone else is running around thinking their vote counts.
And I don't have kids, but if I did, I would keep them away from every single candidate running.
Barry @ 34:
Are you for real real pal?
Do you realize that Bush has gotten everything he's asked for?
And while this continues the Dems have gotten NOTHING??
What planet are you living on Barry?Take a hike.
Barry @ 20:
Nobody to this point in the thread has "attacked" you. You have just shown your true colors awfully quickly.
Barry @ 29:
Jesus, man, you are really full of shit.
JohnnyThief @ 38:
Johnny, anarchy doesn't work. You have to work within the system. Again, this country has survived far worse (and if you think that voter issues are bad now, ask Republicans about the JFK vote).
And out of curiosity, how do you know I'm not fighting? Because I'm not launching physical attacks on candidates? What exactly do you think constitutes fighting?
And FWIW, you're not the only one used to bad situations. I can't reveal too much, but I actually was raised outside of this country in a horribly corrupt political environment. I know from personal experience that throwing the baby with the bathwater is a really good way to make a bad situation worse.
Barry @ 34:
Okay, TOTALLY full of shit.
"a man’s path to God needed no help from the state"
I would vote for any candidate who has the temerity to utter such a phrase.
Barry @ 34:
Barry, you're making it sound like we are ALL attacking you, which is clearly not the case.
Barry is the typical [deleted--no name calling]. For not agreeing with him, we are childish hypocrites. Yet he is appalled at how we lower the intellectual bar with personal insults.
Fascinating. No matter how often I am exposed to this kind of bizarre double standard for behavior, I am always amazed.
RickinSF @ 44:
Amen brother.
BTW,its fitting that "Barry" chose this particular thread to dish out his luke warm pablum.I'm sure somewhere Steve is laughing like hell.
conservatism is serfdom for everyone that isn't a CEO or their Escalade driving "Pastor" front men
Nicole Bell and Wijg, (and others who have acted similarly) I didn't mean you. It's just people like fishboot who has to call me a Republican stooge (and the others of the same ilk).
I don't expect people to agree with me. I expect people to discuss issues. Fishboot no matter how often I am exposed to bizarre hypocrisy like yours I am always amazed. Fuck you.
I fight for liberal causes each and every day. As I said earlier -- I write emails, sign petitions, make phone calls and donate money to all sorts of liberal projects and candidates. Fishboot you're an ass. You don't know me and you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
I want to discuss ways to defeat the kinds of conservative bullshit we all hate and find disgusting. What I'm amazed at is that this thread has turned into personal attacks, rants and general bullshit no self-respecting person should roll around in likes pigs in mud.
I'm done.
This whole cry for "bipartisan cooperation" from the conservatives (and the wimpy progressives) is like going to a used car dealer to buy a 1986 Fiero. You say " That looks like it's in okay shape, I'll give you 2k for it." Then the dealer counters with "Well, I wanted 500k for it, but lets split the difference." They've moved the bar so far to the right that compromise has become capitulation.
"I never got the particular pleasure of speaking to him on the phone"
Why not? Was it not pleasurable for you? Or do you mean you never HAD that particular pleasure?
Your Web Grammarian.
Barry @ 3:
That's just a load of crap. Conservatism in America is the political equivalent of obscenity - something with no redeeming value whatsoever.
The reason we started this country in the first place was to establish a country that has no king or his court. Conservatism, if it can't force a monarch on us de jure, will reestablish it de facto. Everything else associated with what we call conservatism - including their supposed principles of small government - are merely window dressing. The only ideology to conservatism is the establishment of an aristocracy where who you are confers legitimacy - nothing else matters.
And in America, that simply doesn't belong.
Barry @ 20:
Who said anything about being radical? If anything, the response you've drawn should amply demonstrate what 'conservative' has come to stand for - something people would just as soon spit upon than blink.
I wish it was as simple as saying, "Hey, let's all get along together," but that's simply not going to happen. You want me to clasp idiots like Bill-O, Kristol-Meth, and the Clown Prince of Compassionate Conservatism, George W. Bush, to my bosom and say, "God Bless America?" Truth is, there is no room at the table for what passes as 'conservative' in this country. There's nothing to be salvaged, no gleam of nacre inside the crusty, algae-coated shell of the Michelle Malkins and Glenn Becks of the world. Hell, we can't even say, 'torture is wrong,' but the crooks trying to convince us that we need four more years of 'conservative' policies sure are busy trying to out-Jesus one another.
I'll echo Edward R. Murrow. It is a mistake to believe that there are two, equally valid and reasonable sides to every argument. We will not save this country by soft-peddling the disastrous, destructive mindset of the neocons who agitated for a war from which they hoped to reap oil profits (and screw both the Iraqis and our soldiers over in the process), while a far more dangerous threat to this country percolated in Pakistan.
Personal respect? Gotta give some to get some. I'm tired of having my integrity, patriotism, even my intellect insulted and questioned by conservatives and their sock-puppet army. Dignity? Well, there you go - I'm not only a bad person for thinking ill of evil people, I'm lacking dignity.
And if you enjoy the 'free speech zones,' you'll kriffing love the camps ...
JohnnyThief @ 38:
You are exactly right Johnny. It's the system. SO you get screwed for 4 to 8 years and automatically think voting the "other" party (who most happen to be good friends/family) is going to do any different. It's sad.
Nicole Belle @ 42:
I agree with Johnny Nicolle. Working within the system is the reason why the US is in the mess it is in now. Honest people like yourself have been trying to work "within the system" for decades, and what has it done? You've had a Bush, a Bush, a Reagan, a Nixon (and I won't comment on Clinton and his fake happy days economy)....It's not working Nicolle. See any changes? Think you'll see any changes with another Clinton at the helm, or a very rich Edwards? Or hey pick a candidate. The system is broke. If the brakes on your car are done, you can't fix them without replacing them.
I never met or even knew of this man Steve Gilliard, but this one post of his from 2004, I guess, and recalled here, perfectly and completely expresses my own sentiments on the state of this nation and it's current circumstance. May he rest in peace and may other voices as concise and clear about the what is best about the American experiment and what is needed to correct these circumstances we find ourselves in and especially, what it really means to discribe oneself as a liberal and what that ideal has to offer us all, rise to the fore in the coming year and those years beyond 2008.
We as a nation of good decent human beings have allowed the 'other side' so to speak; which is now showing itself to be a combination of well heeled though myopic in vision wealth, supported by the ignorant and selfish and measuring no more than a minority of 25 to 30%, to define us, who consider ourselves liberal and/or progressive and who we are as a nation. To frame everything from any national conversation to our place in the world for far too long.
It is time to end this charade of conservatism as it currently exists and show it for the regressive, backward and oppressive philosophy is has become. If we as a nation can do this, then I think a man like Steve Gilliard as well as the founding fathers, as imperfect as they may have been, will rest in peace...............JD
Barry @ 49:
You never addressed any of my points concerning the most obstructionist Republican party in history.Bush gets everything-we get nothing.SQUAT.Exactly where in that scenario do you see room for "compromise"?Why don't you spell it out for us rather than moaning about personal attacks?Maybe people are pissed off at you because you chose to peddle your act in a thread devoted to one of the most passionate Liberals to have ever blogged.
Your comments insult his memory.Whether you know it or not.
Now I'M DONE WITH YOU.
I didn't call you a stooge until after you accused everyone that had responded to your initial post of being both childish and a hypocrite. I believe you felt that we should be ashamed of ourselves. You started it, and regardless of the multiple posts explaining why we no longer feel the need to roll over for the Republicans, you continue with this whiny passive-agressive bullshit that you are being attacked, ATTACKED!, because of your intellectual superiority and insistance on civilized conversation... when you were the first to throw down with the negative shit.
So, I believe the point still stands that you are allowed to throw out baseless insults while expecting the rest of us to not only tolerate it, but fraking agree with you. And because of this you are a typical Republican stooge, holding everyone but yourself to a standard and then being absolutely disgusted when called on it.
I'm glad you are fighting the good fight, but you need to catch a fucking clue. And be glad you don't know me, because I am even less appreciative of this kind of crap in person. Probably I might even call you worse than a stooge.
Probably.
Oh, yeah, fuck you, your an ass, etc., blah, blah, blah, look ma I DO have testes!
Regarding the whole 'what's the use?' thing ...
If you've come to believe that there's nothing to be gained, that your vote is meaningless, that it's all about sustaining a broken system and we should just give it all up ...
... they win. I refuse to surrender my country to the brigands calling themselves our leaders and hiding their avarice behind the facade of being godly men.
It's not a perfect system, but so few things in life are. Question is, what are you willing to trade to make it work? For me, that's being an active constituent and communicating the good and bad to my elected representatives. It's supporting groups like the EFF and ACLU (among others).
And that's not a 'hold your nose and vote,' either. If you don't like a candidate, don't vote for them. All I ask is that you have a reason for doing so (and it better not be horseshit like, "She's got a shrill laugh," or "He plays with his hair"). Then find the candidate you can back, and support them - even if it's talking them up on your blog.
Barry @ 49:
Then obviously your need to discuss was not nearly as great as your need to play the victim. I nore with no little amusement your great enthusiasm for doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
Shadowgm, beautiful post. I wish I had your eloquence.
And ConcernedCanuck, I understand your point of view, but I vehemently disagree with it. As I said, I lived in a country that fell victim to a violent overthrow of a corrupt government--the result was far, far worse.
I'm always stunned by how short-viewed perceptions of history is here. Look back to the Depression--some of the most progressive policies of the New Deal were enacted because we had just come through a economic period full of the disparities and disenfranchisement we see today. Life is a pendulum. We're going to get back to a more centered place, but it will take a leftward movement to get there.
Barry @ 3:
definitely. i mean... what kind of person divides things so black and white anyway?? what an arrogant post. "us or them". go to sleep, it's your bedtime, let the adults talk now.
rob the blob @ 61:
ps. RIP, i didn't realize the guy who wrote that died.
Maybe your just behind in cleanup, but is stooge is wrong but fuck you-your an ass is acceptable?
I get the flame bait nonsense needs to stop, but calling a stooge a stooge in a post honoring Gilliard seems fitting. Barry was not arguing honestly. He made with the insults then claimed victimhood even as peple were ignoring the insults and trying to engage him. This is playbook stoogedom.
Maybe I am just to fed up with the nonsense.
fishboots @ 63:
Let it go. I'm sure anyone reading this thread has a keen idea of who was willing to discuss issues and who wasn't.
odkdy dokdy.
I honestly was trying to find where the lines are. I understand moderation is a bitch and don't want to make your job harder by making you clean up after me.
I guess I could stop calling people stooges. I'll try to come up with something less obvioulsy an insult.
I had spent the past few days looking at his posts too...but I did not read this one....or really remember it..so haunting......but I also know that much of what was written that fateful November is a blur now....not a good blur either....thank you for finding this...And Nicole thank you for all of your hard work blogging this year....you and the C& L do a great job, but I always read your posts.
Barry @ 49:
Barry, if you are who you say you are, we have a lot in common, like fighting for liberal causes, making phone calls, donating money, etc. We lose the commonality at "trying to get along." The only way to defeat this extreme form of conservatism is by exposing it, and the only way to expose it is to tell the truth. I'm not talking about breaking the rules, or becoming corrupt in order to win, I'm talking about revealing conservatives for what they've become. Sometimes revealing the truth can get nasty, because we are not dealing with rational, "play by the rules" types. I think the blogosphere is a tremendous tool and has helped us to lay bare the extreme nature of these crooks. I think we've already found our weapon for their defeat, and once again it's the people and the truth.
it is as i have said so many times on here , the republican party has NEVER NEVER NEVERY done anything for a working man NEVER! if the repigs had thier way the old woild never have had social security, and at best that only keeps thier heads above water , the repigs would never have allowed unions where a man could make a decent wage and worked for a penshion to suppliment social security, thiers more the repigs didnt want you to have and right now thier stealing thoes things from you while you sleep, if an election can bring us back out of the nightmare these pigs have brought us i say fine , but im thinking its going to take a rebellion to regain america from the corporate whores whove stolen it, armed if the need comes , economic if possible , otherwise your children and your childrens children will only be fit to worship at the rich bastards feet as they throw thier garbage thats left over from thier gorgeing feasts, it wasnt the rich bastards that took trenton from the hesshians , it wasnt the rich who beat the britts at yorktown, it was the raggdy assed every day american boy who was willing to die if he had to , you be the judge is your life any more worth fighting for then thiers was, ?
steve gilliard will be missed....not by conservatives of course, anyone who calls them out and shows them up to be the authoritarian worshippers they are will never be missed...as for this barry fellow; when one side of the aisle has repeatedly thrown down the gauntlet by insulting, baiting, and outright accusing the other side of being the "enemy" because of wanting to debate issues that affect us all----barry wants to compromise & discuss over tea and crumpets????-----all I can say is, brother you have missed the ship on this one; you're still trying to load your luggage at an empty wharf my friend.....the morass of "humans" which now calls itself conservative is nothing of the sort, period. these people stole two elections from us, stood by while we were attacked, sacrificed 3,000 people so they could torch our constitution with their version(s) of "freedom" called Patriot Acts 1&2; then lied about where we should fight.....how much more do people like barry need to see & hear about the other side's actions to finally realize they will never give up..???....for me it is very clear, these conservative slime bags, their families, churches, suv's, and jobs need to be purged from our land----let's try it nicely at first, strip them of their citizenship and deport----IMMEDIATELY, WE NO LONGER REQUIRE THEIR INPUT, SERVICES, FAITH, MONEY OR ANYTHING ELSE....THEY NEED TO GO, RIGHT NOW, TODAY!!!!....
That was a great post. Thanks for linking it again.
As for the Barry thread, pretty much all I'd say has been said. As Nicole wrote @60, "We’re going to get back to a more centered place, but it will take a leftward movement to get there." When the more sane Republicans take their party back, and the GOP acts "civilly," then we'll talk. But even then, one of the key tenets of conservatism in actual practice is massively benefiting a few at the cost of many. Their entire goal is obstruction of progress. They are anti-meritocracy. America's been much better off when it's been left of center. It's better off when conservatives are in the minority when it comes to political power. And when they're the fiscally responsible type, or the sincere libertarian type, they can serve a useful checking function, but the current crew is conscienceless and disastrous, and it's naive to offer them an olive branch when they're firing all their guns. Hell, for just one of the latest examples, when Cheney broke the law and refused to report data to the National Archive's Information Security Oversighht Office (ISOO), and ISOO pushed the matter, Cheney and Addington tried to get the office eliminated. These are not honorable people. They're authoritarian bullies who create corrupt systems to benefit them and their donors, Iraq reconstruction and the rest of America and the world be damned.
honest to fucking christ, i miss gilly
he was one of the few bloggers who took the time to read responses to his blog, and then to engage in intellectual arguments with his detractors (at times which included myself)
his was the first blog i read everyday, and his was the blog that got me deep into reading other blogs
i wish he had taken better care of himself....the world needs his voice
i hate it that he is gone, and the evil one still sits in the vp's office in the wh
happy fuckin new year
Batocchio @ 70:
Here, Here, above every other message that we must bring to the forefront in this next year, this should be heard above all: These are not honorable men! They have done much harm to our Nation and to our nations' laws. Where are the good men and women in the House of Congress who would stand and defy those who do harm to our Nation and to our nations' laws? Let them stand with Senator Dodd and be counted. Come forward and stand with those who wish to honor a Nation of the People, by the People, and for the People.
Barry @ 34:
BOOOOOOO! Take your ball and go home.
Good old Gilliard!
I miss his blog so much :/
Nicole Belle @ 60:
Nicolle, I understand your point, but sometimes violent overthrow is the only answer, or nothing changes. America and the "New Deal" had nothing to do with the economic turnaround after the Great depression though. If that was the case, how come the entire globe rebounded and not just the US? I know, deep subject. But I digress. Like I said, I'm not in any way questioning your integrity or your belief in the system. I just think it's wrong. For decades people have been saying the same thing in my country. Government change never makes much difference when they are all wolves in sheep's clothing.
conservative preserves
liberal spreads
RIP Gillie.
Barry @ 3:
the reason we're already polarized as much as we are is entirely due to the line drawn in the sand by uncompromising conservativism... the reason you've found yourself disliking the polarization is entirely due to the fact that when conservatives are so pig-headed that they demand compliance to their perspectives while dismissing all others they accomplish only one thing to create enemies....
to be as simple as possible for what seems to be stereotypical dull intelligence that conservatives commonly display... when you draw a line in the sand, some of us will have enough compunction to stand on the other side of that line precisely because of the argument you've posed about yin and yang... your use of it belies a misunderstanding of it..
and it may be that you are for liberal causes... so this comment is not necessarily a criticism of that about you, but... the point of the matter is precisely that (you've?) conservatives have already lost perspective...
klunk @ 76:
I`m not sure I know what that means,but if you`re saying that conservatives preserve as in the Constitution,you`re plain full of shit.Bush`s gang has done nothing to preserve anything except his friend`s pocketbooks.
ConcernedCanuck @ 75:
Nicolle, I understand your point, but sometimes violent overthrow is the only answer, or nothing changes.
no, it's not... and no you don't understand the point... things are always changing... they never stop changing... violence is only a result of pent up need for greater change... and is only necessary when defending one's right to embrace change... and is never a justification for imposing change...
sully18 @ 79:
no... that was an attempt at being as succinct as possible without being specific... (wordplay... intended to be thought-provoking moreso than anything else... perhaps unsuccessfully so..)
...they have not "preserved" the constitution because it wasn't helping to "preserve" their fears of their enemies.. it was a greater imperative to them to "preserve" their "upper-hand" in their war-games than it was to "preserve" some "ancient document they never cared for that was less relevant than another ancient document they've never read or understood"...
klunk @ 80:
no, it's not... and no you don't understand the point... things are always changing... they never stop changing... violence is only a result of pent up need for greater change... and is only necessary when defending one's right to embrace change... and is never a justification for imposing change...
Ya, and we know how well things are changing, don't we?
conservative is the rotten apple hanging overlong from a tree, fighting against the natural order for it to fall to the ground and reconstitute itself back into the soil...
ConcernedCanuck @ 82:
ya... they are... if you can't see it... then good luck when your head snaps from trying to catch up when it hits... ;-)
Am I the only person that thinks Barry is hilarious?
A person supposedly all for compromise that gets in a huff and stomps off because ONE person, out of all the hundreds of millions teh intarwebs, didn't say what he wanted to hear?
Oh, the irony! A word of advice, Barry... best to give up your internet access. If this forum is too much for you, the rest of stuff on the tubes just might kill you. Having said that, anytime SANE individuals want to take the idea of "conservatism" back from the PNAC necon crowd, be my guest. Good luck, as "liberals" are now the fiscal conservatives, so all you've got left is race baiting and religious extremism. Neither of which are even interested in compromise, so your plea is moot.
"Doc Holliday: You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung."
peaceful easy feeling @ 13:
many people correctly interpret a lack of reciprocity as being disingenuous...
bmw 528 @ 18:
... ok.... when?... not being disingenuous... but honestly curious... when has conservative ever been anything other than self-serving?
Barry @ 29:
that's the point now, isn't it?... the example of tolerance was set by liberal values and it was abused and perverted by conservatives and manipulated as tools for creating the current environment where liberals are being forced to stand firm against... the conservative response to the initial positive example set by liberals has only been to lower the bar...
Republican conservatives drive big honking F. U. V.'s not suv's which requires us to acknowledge they are quite the sports. Not.
Dear Barry (assuming you didn't run away):
Compromise requires reciprocity. Unfortunately, the current crop of Republicans are not willing to reciprocate.
We can be diplomatic until we're blue in the face - unfortunately, diplomacy rarely gets results.
You have to stand up for your principles. That doesn't involve playing nice with the opposition trying to tear those principles down.
Or, read this recent op/ed from the NYT:
The Great Divide
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