New Hampshire Debates Open Thread
Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) on Friday after ABC News excluded him, fellow Democrat Mike Gravel and Republican Duncan Hunter from today's debates.
Kucinich said ABC is violating equal-time provisions by keeping him out of the debate. ABC said the candidates left out of the debates failed to meet benchmarks for support outlined to each campaign before the Iowa caucuses.
The Republican debate will include Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson, Mitt Romney and Ron Paul. It starts at 7 p.m.
Shortly after that 90-minute forum, Democrats Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Bill Richardson will take the stage for their forum.
Charles Gibson will moderate both debates at St. Anselm College in Manchester.
Streaming video available here.
TPM Election Central reports on this development on tomorrow's FOX debate:
The New Hampshire Republican Party has pulled out as a co-sponsor of tomorrow night's Fox News debate, due to the controversies surrounding the exclusion of Ron Paul. Fox News is barring Paul from the debate, with many people believing it is because of his opposition to the Iraq War.
Let's get it on.
I bet Rudy says 9/11 2532853289081327531 times
So, the republicans who got the least support in Iowa are included, but not the democrats?
Thanks again, MSM.
I know it's been said a million times, but it's true: The Media are choosing our candidates for us.
Isn't there SOME kind of legal repercussion for that?
Anybody out there know the laws and can help out?
It just doesn't sit right with me that it could possibly be legal.
But who cares what's legal anymore, everyone just does what the hell they want to. :(
I love that this debate is being treated like a football game. They are giving predictions and tips. It's seems like it will be the most free flowing of the debates. They will give them no buzzers or stupid lights. Finally we can hear about issues. Obama needs to just cut Hillary's head off tonight.
We could have one of those drinking games and whenever Rudy says "9-11" you have to take a gulp. We'll all be tanked.
Such a disingenuous gang of thugs the faux snooze liars deserve removal from the airwaves and all such networks that attempt to stifle critical words about illegal governmental actions should face the same consequences imo.
Wow, Fox barring Ron Paul from the debate, causing the New Hampshire Republican Party to drop it's support is only going to get him on the news much more than he would have had they just let him in the debate.
rudy hits a 9/11 in like his first sentence
wow, so soon
Here is the link to the streaming video...
I like this format.
what a joke
McCain was against the low numbers of troops then out of political strategy only
he could distant himself from bush, but also criticize policy
i hope he wins NH to kill Romney, but that's about all - i'm not a fan
budda @ 8:
Only one? How disappointing.
Orangutan. @ 9:
agreed it really is like a "dinner table"
men talking like men
Live stream anywhere? Live stream? Bueller?
As I have said repeatedly, the big money media will do everything in it's power to make sure Dennis Kucinich can not get his message out to the American people. It is a sad day for American "Democracy" when tactics like this are used to silence a candidate.
Kucinich 08
Biggus Diggus @ 5:
Within two minutes. It would make for a short night. You'd need Billy Carter in the game to last any longer.
fred is good in this format because he is like the old uncle - a little dumb but demanding respect
he's boring though whenever he talks I think - how long is this going to take?
I'll preface this post by saying it may come off as overly sensitive (or ridiculous), but I'm OK with that interpretation. I simply want to express my concern that we be very careful about any JFK references in this election year. There are a lot of nuts who don't need encouragement. We should really consider giving them no reason to see any parallels between the Democratic candidates and either the policy disasters or fate of Kennedy.
This is a different time. We can produce different results, and we should expect it to be that way.
My $0.02.
Peace.
We play a drinking game. A shot every time Rudy mentions 9-11. I'm gonna be so wasted.
"hope" someone ask Obama about his "bold" and "agent of change" absent vote on the Kyl Lieberman amendment. "hope" the MSM starts to apply the same hardball scrutiny that they have been applying to the Clinton campaign to the Obama spin machine. "hope" the MSM and the lefties start paying attention to Edwards in a fair and balanced way.
I have not witnessed a candidate get away with so much spin as Obama;s campaign. "Agent of change, Bold, antiwar-candidate" Prove it...where's the proof?
Or will the MSM and the (lefties Mark Green over at Air America and Arianna Huffington) just allow the Obama campaign to throw around words like "hope" as another word with nothing left to prove?
Even the lefties over at Air America are ignoring Edwards. Go listen to Mark Greens latest at Air America. He should be ashamed of himself. I think it was Chris matthews with a Mark Green mask on. What is Green's agenda...certainly not fair and balanced reporting.
Grochi Harzep @ 14:
ABC is airing it live in the Eastern time zone, tape delayed in the others timezones.
It's in conjunction with Facebook, so they may have a streaming component, although I checked and all I saw were continually updating polls.
Romney needs to wipe that smirk off his face when other candidates are talking!
did Romney just say he wanted to "bring thge muslim world to modernity" ? AKA civilize the muslims??
romney should just blow bush - he's just about as kissing ass as you can get
romney is acting like such a little kid
I really do not understand Kucinich's support of Obama? Is he buying the "agent of change" hogwash too"
Ralph Nader, Micheal Moore, Granny D, Tim Robbins, Harry Bellafonte all behind Edwards. Wonder who Bill Moyers will support?
Nicole Belle @ 21:
Live stream here.
We should have a debate with some of the leaders in the Islamic world right now. What do they think the reasons are we are being targeted by Muslim anger. Both the leaders of Iraq (Saddam) and Iran have offered to debate our leader in public and we rejected it. Look at all the money, lives, and respect we've lost over that mistake of thinking Saddam had weapons. DAMN.
there goes fred with a dumb joke as he always does but always in an old man boring way
Why don't they all just drop trou and show us who has the biggest dick?
what a joke these guys are
composter @ 31:
agreed - i like hucabee and really am supporting mccain to win in NH because you can't get much worse than romney
My wife just asked me "is Ron Paul the crazy one?" I told her "no, they're all the crazy one."
I've pretty much had it with "conservatives". They live in such a fantasy-world bubble that it's not worth the breath or time to try to educate them. Every single time you try to explain something to them, they start shouting talking points at you.
Ludicrous
Hillary's hoping people confuse "old" with "experienced."
Captain Kangaroo @ 339:
You said chance, not change, but drink anyway! And I agree, I think Edwards is the stronger candidate and an Edwards/Obama ticket would be the stronger choice. However, MSM continues to ignore Edwards and will unfortunately be the bane of his existence.
How about not just "change"...
How about REPAIR? There's been so much damage done.
And IMPROVEMENT on these terrible policies in place!
That would speak more loudly to me!
budda @ 338:
That pretty much says everything about your depth.
Jump the fuck in Edwards. they are not going to invite you!!!
the good news, if you're an obama supporter, is that senator clinton just announced after her 3rd place finish in iowa that she intends to continue running on her record.
please, senator clinton, by all means... continue to run on your record. continue to keep the spotlight firmly placed on your vote for war in iraq in 2002, and your inexcusible support for kyl-lieberman.
"IT'S THE WAR, STUPID."
my fellow obama supporters, this isn't rocket science. this isn't brain surgery. it's not even factory-line assembly.
keep reminding america hrc was wrong when it mattered most. not just in 2002, but in 2007. and the president absolutely has to be right when it comes to war. hrc is OH FOR TWO.
and she's apologized for neither bad judgment call. i swear, it's like trying to get a 2 year old to spit out a piece of candy...
Yes Barack, you really put the lid on no bid contracts for Halliburton. I wouldn't push that too hard if I were you.
Reducing the power of lobbyists.
Thank you Obama, I've been waiting all night to hear something along those lines!!!
Captain Kangaroo @ 355:
I sure would... and I'd bring 500 pounds of the driest, hardest pretzels I could possibly find.
Hey, what happens, happens.
Captain Kangaroo @ 364:
+1
I need a triple by-pass. Does anyone know the spouse of a good heart surgeon? I want experience so I hope they've been married a long time.
I'm getting really tired of Charlie spouting off the Republican talking points, like his ridiculous what if question about a nuclear attack. What a blatant and manipulative shill for the Republicans. And their half baked bullshit data about the "surge." ABC is a real pain in the ass. Fortunately nobody's going for it.
Sacrifice? Fuck that. He just lost my vote.
Don't bang on the table when it's a table-mounted mic.
Is Edwards wearing an Invisibility Cloak???( and everytime Richarson speaks they show Hill smiling- urgh....)
Obama: "did that hurt your feelings" he asked Richardson...
Richardson does have relevant experience....but sadly his Energy Track Record went unacknowledged under Clinton....and now he just asked people to scarifice....that will hurt his number...
"Senator Edwards FOR JUST A MOMENT."
Again Richardson's got my attention with the energy talk. Good boy, good boy. An issue dear to my bleeding liberal heart.
If we would have followed Carter's advice we would be sitting prettyright now. Instead we are sitting ugly. Assholes.I did my part. I have had solar panels since mid 80s.
No one can attack Obama's record because he doesn't have one.
He never freakin votes. He has I believe it is the second worst record in the Senate for actually showing up to work (the worst is some guy who is sick). After 7 years of Bush vacations I think we need someone who will actually get on a plane and do their job, even if they are running for another one.
and if the ambitious senator from new york intends to run on her marriage, as she clearly appears to, then it's fair for us, as discerning voters, to examine this nuptial arrangement as closely as possible.
is this 2008 candidacy really a way to sneak bill back in through the back door?
has bill REALLY changed his ways?
and, should senator clinton's term as president clinton find itself mired in scandal, can we american taxpayers receive any assurances we won't be footing the bill to the tune of about 40 MILLION DOLLARS this time around?!
NO CORPORATE LOBBYISTS.
Edwards, I think I love you.
Nativeokie,
Your proposal for a base(s) continues a failed colonialistic policy. We will have to leave the chips to fall or continue to be imperialists. NO BASES. It's their country, not ours. Fair trade and fair diplomacy MAY someday correct the situation. The Iraqis must be left to decide for themselves. Personally, I believe in them to find their way without our bases.
Richardson, don't you think the average American has sacrificed enough? Sure we habe to sacrifice, but I think It's the 1 or 2% that need to sacrifice now.
Doesn't the experience of taking millions of dollars from telecoms and corporate PAC count as experience for Obama and Hillary?
At least the young dude isn't as much of a hack as Gibson.
Edwards is rocking it....."NO LOBBYISTS''...and the Insurance issue
oh...btw please ask Hill WHAT she as a Senator has accomplished ? ....
I don't care if they don't let him speak again. Those last four minutes were gold.
Hee hee! I thought Yuckabee saying the word "change" was hysterical (Drink Captain!). Isn't he Bush's Siamese twin, surgically removed back in 1946?
If I'm limited to these four and have to pick now: Edwards gets it.
Go Edwards.
Give me a f'ing break.
One guys writes the patients' bill of rights.
Another one banned free lunch (literally).
Owned!
Rare stumble by Obama. He made a joke Barack... relax...
EDWARDS!!!!!!!!
enigma4ever @ 384:
Hillary has accomplished selling her soul.
Not that she isn't still better than all the repub candidates.
Reality break???? Cow.
This is where the Republicans jump in and say "we have the best health care in the world".
It's not about health care. It's about health insurance.
its un-watchable.
The exclusion of Kucinich by ABC is completely difference from the exclusion of Paul by Fox. The rules for "qualifying" for the Dem's ABC debate were agreed to by all a long time ago and Kucinich has not met any of the criteria. There are no rules for the Repub's Fox debate; Fox isn't a media outlet -(sorry, that was editorial)- so Fox can -(and must)- do whatever Ailes tells it.
best moment so far - Huckabee saying "which one" when romney said something about "my views"
.
Just how am I supposed to make an informed decision and choice if all the information for me is cherry picked and censored by the Myth System Management(MSM)?
Oh, I forgot. I live in America. America doesn't roll with an OPEN SOCIETY... any more.
.
Zuckerfrosch @ 33:
Ha! Indeed.
Wow, they're all taking such bold stances: we're the greatest nation on Earth. We're the strongest nation on Earth. Such controversial views may hurt them with the voters.
I'm glad Ron Paul is included here tonight.
John "bomb Bomb Iran" McCain. too Scary. Remember http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg
Lieberman as Secretary of Defense (a chicken hawk who walked out of the back door on Vietnam)
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/mccain-lieberman-administration/
all debates should be this casual
I would take Romney over "bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" McCain any day.
How many times has Romny changed his stance?
I love how the MONKEY WRENCH (Ron Paul) is making the blowhards defend their positions! Fun times. Kucinich would do the same thing.
Reality break: HRC had to move to Arkansas to find a bar exam she could pass and has never held a job that Bill didn't get for her.
Bless Elizabeth; she looks so worn out. Standin' by her man-- as am I. ALL THE WAY, EDWARDS! Give them hell, John. Make them feel you. . .
Why are people meaner to me than to John? Why? It's not fair! Waaaaa
Good for Dennis Kucinich that he has filed a lawsuit against the electoral machines which think they can think for us. Choosing the candidate that they think serves them best and completely ignoring the will of the people.
What happened to freedom of Speech and liberty and honesty? Stop the corruption.
For a better country and a better world "vote your heart".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2nuG-qgPz8
wtf? "Can we have a reality moment for a minute"Hill
She is a real treat....lordy...
here she goes getting shrill ? okay Charlie, ask her WHAT she has done in her DC years? ...snip snip...
here she is yellling- that does not presuade even a goat in the room....
( ahhhh, she feel "excoriated"...what the helll..everybody has kissed her ass- eps the media)
JTM @ 385:
Yep!
Hillary just said the patients bill of rights was too hard.. that she thinks we have to capitulate to the insurance companies. Sad. Then she says she was an "agent of change". Even sadder.
"let's have a reality break " blah blah blah
Around now, it's kind of Richardson's turn (to be fair).
YOUR HUSBAND ISN'T RUNNING THIS TIME!!!
Go again Edwards!!!
JTM @ 389:
one guy writes a great bill he can't get through the congress.....there is no patients bill of rights
one guy writes an ethics reform bill (not perfect) that becomes law and busts it up a bit for the big money corporate lobbyists...
one guy talked real nice but got nothing done..
one guy made some real change, and made an impact on the lobbyists.
Go obama.... good debate
Damn, I like John Edwards' passion and courage.
Oh shit. Here we are hearing that asshole GIBSON FUCK UP THE DEBATE AGAIN. What the is he running for? Why is he lecturing me? Why is Gibson more important than the issues or the candidates?
Fire his ass. Call ABC. That clown needs to go.
Shut up Hill!!! You are wrong and that is why you are going to lose!
Go Edwards....holy hell.....
Health Insuranse is the issue.
It's a good job I'm not involved in this "have a drink when change is mentioned" game.
Thankfully I committed to 1 month off stella artois on January 1st.
And I'm sticking to it! Plus it's 3.20 am here in the UK.
John Edwards, you rock.
Edwards has it. Hands down.
You know, Hillary is an accomplished, brilliant woman. The problem is, she, like her husband (at whose cult of personality I worshipped during all 8 years of his presidency) wants to be all things to all people. Now, suddenly, she's an "agent of change"? Bill could get away with it because he's got the charisma that Hillary unfortunately lacks. Understatement much?
John needs to kick ass and take names. He has this chance, tonight, to make an indelible impression.
Don't forget to contribute to his campaign, btw. I've donated twice since his unacknowledged second place finish in Iowa. He needs your support! Let's keep him in this race.
EDWARDS!!!!!!!
The edge of tears in Edwards' voice is risky, but, for all I know, is real.
fiver @ 356:
LOL. That's what I thought too. The man is good.
Gibson is getting on my nerves using the rethug playbook.
And Obama and Edwards are doing an excellent job. I like how they are double teaming on points and on Hillary.
Edwards/Obama or Obama/Edwards 08.....NOW
Hill- have a "reality moment" and pack your bags .....go home to Bill.
Charlie Gibson=Britney Hume
"When they American people are determined, then it happens."
That's why we're no longer in the war, eh?
Charles Gibson, Wolf Blitzer, and George Stephanopulos are a republican tool.
they're all doing great, but obama is a cut above the rest, that's for sure....NH will be a trouncing if this keeps up
I like what I've heard from Richardson all night. I don't know as much about him as I'd like to, but he's got my attention now.
All due respect, Governor--this is NOT the time to play patty cake. It is TIME to BE PISSED OFF AND TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY.
Yes, John, go! "You cannot nice these people to death."
I AM galvanized.
Wow. He knows he's winning. He's jumping in. Cool.
lopaloo102 @ 425:
Let's hope so. I've been more of a fan of Dodd, but with him gone, I'm backing Obama.
well, i believe that's all, folks.
this is as far as the old spaceknight can go with you moonbats.
i gotta get my education on, and make some money so's i can satisfy these damn bill collecting vultures at my door.
good luck, "obama nation", "obamaniacs", or whatever slang our detractors will come up with. i say, "good luck", 'cause we're gonna need it.
keep the faith, retain humility, retain your sense of humor.
peace. over'n out.
Agree, Richardson has good ideas; he's fresh, fo real. I would get behind President Edwards appointing him as a member of his cabinet. And wouldn't Obama be the most kickass US delegate to the United Nations ever?
Rights came from God? Oh, Huck, leave your religion outside.
funny, the repugs/gop are eating their own.....hooray!!!!!!!
The greatest/funniest thing is that New Hampshire Republican Party has pulled out as a co-sponsor of tomorrow night’s Fox News debate. Does that mean it is worthless. Will they even have the debate tomorrow. After the debate tonight will tomorrow’s be watched. Is Faux even relevant anymore? For that matter were they ever relevant?
Zuckerfrosch @ 40:
Wonder if this is being broadcast in Syria for the millions of Iraqi refugees that our invasion created? We are watching debates and those who suffer from the Bush administrations war in Iraq are looking for their homes, food, shelter, water. Crikey and we wonder why they fear us!
ONe million dead Iraqi people, 4 million Iraqi refugees....wonder who they would like to become President of the U.S.
If I lived in Iran I would want Edwards.
Ron Paul is amazing. what would happen with a Kucinich/ Ron Paul independent ticked?
Ron Paul just lays it out. Geez. Shuts these fools up. They don't know how to respond when someone speaks the truth on the same stage as them. Funny stuff. Too bad it wasn't so serious.
It's a shame that Ron Paul can't get to speak much - what he says is completely on the money. He probably makes far too much sense to ever be president....
However, war is all anyone is talking about, really. Asked about domestic policy, the still speak about war. waaaar wwwwaaar waaarrrr
It's all about war.
Jeez.
Kathleen @ 51:
When you actually look at Paul's non foreign-policy stances, I don't think you'd like him so much. But I love watching him hold their feet to the fire on these other issues.
fred thompson is such a idiot but I was laughing at his stupid expression about ron paul
wow, that was kinda funny actually
but ron paul is right we are wasting so much money on iraq and people here at home are hurting
Ron Paul just did it again with the reason medical is so expensive. He's got such a good voice - then Fred Thompson and all laugh and all look like monkeys. The horror story is that the repugs watching this debate won't believe Ron Paul - he makes way too much sense.
hahaha, thompson just made romney look like a real idiot
I dunno about you, but I love mandates.
sorry i'm writing so much but another great hit on romney by fred and romney gets this stupid look
he's had that look three times already it's almost a bit prissy like a little spoiled brat
Gee does Thompson always have gunk stuck in his throat? That is sooo annoying for viewers.
I like Ron Paul's stance on:
Terrorism
War
Money
I hope you post a new thread for the Democrats, because we need a fresh start after these guys.
Zuckerfrosch @ 54:
I have heard this. Thanks for keeping me in check. He just makes so much sense.
Huckabee "we have a health care Maze"....Now that's the truth
Who woke up Fredrick of Hollywood?
Like an ol' deaf firehouse dog, he pounced on Mitten's defending (essentially) Senator Clinton's healt insurance policy.
Zuckerfrosh @ 54 says-
When you actually look at Paul’s non foreign-policy stances, I don’t think you’d like him so much. But I love watching him hold their feet to the fire on these other issues.
Actually, the only thing that you can call a foreign policy issue- Paul's stance against the war in Iraq- isn't as much a foreign policy issue as it is a Constitutional issue. Paul- rightly, imo- is against the War Powers Act. His only other foreign policy stance that I've heard him address is treaties and alliances, and I don't think his policies there add up.
But your absolutely right regarding Paul on domestic issues- he's a States' Rights supporter at the cost of individual liberties.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I thought McCain was having a stroke there.
Did McCain just have a stroke with that spasm?
As returning Iraqi soldiers are referring to our health care system as "death by paper cuts"
halftime!
Nice to hear Republicans talking about Healthcare for so long.
Barak Obama's oratorical skill hurts him when he's in the "spontaneous" venues.
The moment he hesitates for a word, you wonder.
Richardson's carrying Hillary's water, trying to put a friendly face on her status quo.
This is an election for change.
Obama and Edwards are the candidates for real change. They have 60% of the Democratic vote. Obama makes us feel good... like that thing about pissing your pants in a brown suit; it feels good, but nobody notices.
I don't need a president who just makes me feel good. I feel good about what I advocate and what I expect from the Constitution of the United States and the American people.
I need a President of the United States who's gonna work his butt off to achieve the promise that is America.
In just about every difficult problem every American faces these days, you need a good lawyer; a strong advocate.
Edwards is that man for me.
Richardson. "I was a governor, so elect me." Whatever. I wish Kucinich was in there rather than Richardson. He doesn't really add much flavor to the debate, IMHO. I'm sure he'll make a nice cabinet member or whatever, but...
did he just say "you need to have 'unirail'"? WTF... does he mean monorail? It always seems like Bill is just pulling stuff out his backside (probably even when he's not, sadly).
p.s. did you know indiana jones is getting back together with marion ravenwood, after all these years? true story...
I think Obama just loosely referred to Green Jobs... which I'd love to hear more about, from every one of them. Mix the green with the economy, and I see quite a light at the end of this shitty bush-made tunnel we're in.
ROM Spaceknight @ 434:
Please don't make me think about whips when Charles Gibson is in front of me. My kids need a dad who isn't in prison.
John Gibson has been awful in this debate. It's just one Republican talking point after another.
Not to mention each of their "issue questions" being accompanied by what was essentially a commercial for ABC News.
He and ABC should be ashamed.
Russ Mason UK @ 413:
Well, it's only 10:28 here in eastern standard time and I will personally make up for your lost time, months, years. Whatever lunar calendar idiosyncrasies you suffer.
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