Just utter sadness....and a prayer for renewal of our humanity.
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Xinhua reports:
identified the Iraqi soldier as Qaisar Saadi al-Jubory and said the Iraqi soldier had shot the U.S. soldiers after he witnessed them beating a pregnant woman.
"His blood rose and he asked the occupying (U.S.) soldiers to stop beating the woman. Their answer through the translator was: 'We will do what we want.' So he opened fire on them."
Iraqi and American officials have denied the accusation.
"There is no indication that that is true and the matter remains under investigation," said U.S. military spokesman Colonel James Hutton.”
Fucking horrible.
If this country puts young American males into war, attrocities will occur.
Whether or not it is true that the US soldiers were kicking a pregnant Iraqi (and who would care to bet that they weren't), this atrocity is difficult to comprehend against a background of 'progress' and 'improvement' in our relations with the Iraqis, and in the Iraq war.
WTF is going on, and whyTF are we still there? Let them shoot each other, or NOT, it's up to them.
Most reports like this turn out true. Still, the question keeps getting asked though, "why do they hate us?" Well...........
Preacher Boob at 3
How do your sentiments serve to make money for the military-industrial complex?
Come on. Get with the program.
If this war is going to end if you want to know how to do it watch that Hannity video then go to Washington and get busy.
Vietnam didn't end until the shit hit the fan here at home. Then it ended.
How long before the source is smeared and the cover story starts?
This beyond horrible, I am on the side of the Iraqi troop if this is true ad it sounds like it.
if true, it's sad, but not surprising...our military has been stretched so far past the breaking point for so long that these incidents are just going to increase and get more brutal. Our fighting men and women for the most part are good people, but when you've been put through the grinder over and over again you start to loose some of your humanity...and that is what is happening to our soldiers.
Dubya should be held responsible for everyone one of these cases, but of course that would require justice and we seem to be fresh out of that today.
My suspicion is that not only is the media graying out the news, but I think AP is the actual Neocon misinformation network. The handmaiden-to-liars AP is frequently Accentuating the Positive and, by god, they're well paid stenographers in doing it.
Things are going "swimmingly"...........
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 9:
Were in so deep we don't even remember what it was like to just wake up and go about our business on a normal peaceful day.
They were just liberating her.
This is not surprising to me.
Our government is run by and for the benefit of psychopaths. It only makes sense that the ruling elite would have dependable psychopaths in the military.
see for reference:
On Killing, by Lt. Col Dave Grossman and
Political Ponerology, by Andrzej Lobaczewski
Remember Hugh Thompson? Who told our own guys he would kill them if they didn't stop massacring civilians?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson,_Jr.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 9:
This type of crap has been going on since the initial invasion. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the military being stretched. NOTHING at all. Go to www.liveleak.com and view some of the "heroic" military vids they have online there. It is the ugly side of being a nation that thinks the world is theirs and laws are for others internationally.
I honestly don't know what to think about this.......certainly..both sides of this story could be true..I'm not going to pass judgement until I get more info on this topic.One story does not make it fact.
This may or may not be true. Either way it's believable, and anyone who believes isn't going to be convinced otherwise by denials.
Utter sadness because the iraqis are lying? Or because the soldiers did what was alleged? I dont see any basis for deciding one claim is truer than the other.
Bush and the rest of his damn coalition of the "willing" have created a hell that we will be digging out of for generations. Why hasn't this war criminal and his henchmen been impeached? Why haven't we made it clear to the world that he does NOT represent America? Does he? Why don't people in the system stand up to this monster? This video is heartbreaking heart wrenching, and scandalous beyond measure. The "war" is "going well"? I am ashamed to be thought of as an "American". What have we become?
We have yet to scratch the surface in regard to the atrocities that have taken place in Iraq due to the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq. They are crimes against humanity and should be tried at the Hague.
any one else notice that the 4 million Iraqi refugees are not mentioned any longer in US news. let alone the over one million dead and counting. How can we wonder for one second why they fear us?
Lantos made Sibel Edmonds list
http://www.atlargely.com/2008/01/sibel-has-photo.html
Justin Raimando's latest
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12166
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
thank you for posting this. I didn't know about this aspect of the incident.
My Lai, anyone? Anyone?
Well, ever since the "I support Our Troops " stickers and slogans came out, I have wanted a nice yellow ribbon magnet with a red circle around it with a line through the middle. I do NOT support our troops, and never have, not in THIS mission, anyway.
Why should we be expected to blindly support them? Do I want "our troops" hurt or killed? No. I don't want them OVER THERE doing ANYTHING, whether that is killing or being killed, and I never did. The only troops I support are the ones that have not blindly answered the corporate call for war and conscientiously objected or deserted. I don't give a damn about oaths, or duty or patriotism or any of that claptrap. Stand up for what is right, not some ideology that is being twisted and misused to kill and maim untold thousands.
Doing this stupid "I hate the war but stand by our soldiers" dance sickens me. I want to hear more stories about the brave troops that have refused the insane suicide missions. I want to hear about the noble troops who have refused to follow orders and suffered the consequences...of course, if those stories ever got out, I figure the Military Industrial Complex would lose their hold on things pretty quickly, so I guess I am waiting in vain.
"Feh!" on car magnets and all the phony patriotism that goes with them.
This is an atrocity, no matter how or why it happened.
Two US soldiers were shot dead, and three others wounded, by a fellow (though Iraqi) soldier, on a joint mission.
This would not have happened if all the idiocy that lead to this war hadn't happened, if the idiots who created this idiocy hadn't remained entrenched, and if we, the idiot public, hadn't put up with these idiots.
Enough! Get the fu*k out! IMPEACH THE HEAD IDIOTS!!
The Tom Hank’s movie “Charlie Wilson’s War” became a big hit last week, and though I’ve not seen the movie, I am aware of Congressman Wilson’s efforts to support the Afghani’s after the Soviet Invasion. What keeps coming to mind though, are the reports of Soviet atrocities perpetrated against the civilian population in Afghanistan – events on which that movie is based.
Like us, the Soviets back then were bankrupting their economy trying to win an extremely unpopular foreign occupation in the Middle East. They were conscribing young soldiers into service, shipping them to a hostile environment with the majority either coming come physically or emotionally scarred for life. When reports like this one came out back then – it made everyone sick. Then it made everyone ANGRY. The international community was against them, the Afghanis were against them, and their own people were against them.
More importantly, WE were against them, for doing the exact same thing we are now doing in both Afghanistan AND Iraq. That occupation didn’t turn out well for the Soviets. I fear ours will turn out worse for us.
Whether this story is true or not (I fear it is), we are nevertheless far from wining ANY hearts and minds with our occupational endeavors. The time to get out and mend fences was THREE YEARS AGO. When the International Community now “boos” our National Anthem, we’ve not only lost our wars, we’ve lost any opportunity to somehow “make it right again.”
IF, it's true that those soldiers were kicking and beating a pregnant woman, then i say fuck em. You reap what you sow.
P.S. If that idiot coc*suc*er McCain wants to keep this sh*t going for another hundred years, we should collect a fund to get his analyst to put him to sleep.
SamDog @ 23:
My magnetic ribbon says "Support our Death Squads" - really!
I get some funny looks in the parking lot.
How likely is it that some Iraqi just shot the two Americans because he felt like it? Then stuck around to get caught? Not very.
This has more than a little of the ring of truth about it.
Haven't read a story about it lately but I seem to recall hearing that the Army has been systematically lowering its standards to meet recruiting requirements in order to maintain the "all-volunteer" army. Add that factor to an overstretched, underpaid, over deployed military and one can only be impressed that events like these are still newsworthy.
If we don't get these guys out of Iraq very soon, something much, much worse is almost certainly going to happen soon.
"Do Something!!!!"
Lost in a roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
The Doors - The End
Bring them home NOW!
Taarak @ 25:
Um, dude, what about Afghanistan? Same shit goes on there, and we've been there six years and counting. Let's not forget that there are two big dehumanizing wars, one which just happens to be in a region Alexander the Great couldn't conquer. We're talking about the Alexander III that blazed a path from fucking Macedonia to the Indus, and he couldn't conquer Afghanistan. The first true superpower, England, tried three times and failed every motherfucking one of them. So did the Soviets. So did Ghengis Khan, and so, ultimately did Tamerlane.
If any war's a lost cause, its our intervention in the Afghan civil war.
Amen, SamDog. I'm with you 100%. There is nothing about, and NO ONE involved in, this bloody occupation that I support.
General_Rennenkampf @ 32:
I couldn't agree more. That's why I said "More importantly, WE were against them, for doing the exact same thing we are now doing in both Afghanistan AND Iraq. "
Preacher Boob @ 27:
Forget the frickin' analyst... take him to the vet!
This time, Nicole, I agree with your headline.
The military lied about Pat Tillman. They lied about Jessica Lynch. What else won't they lie about. Damn this awful war.
Orangutan. @ 37:
It's not a war. As a matter of fact, these actions cannot even be described as war crimes. They are crimes against humanity. It's a military dictatorship of one nation over another.
ConcernedCanuck @ 38:
Great comment. (and correction) taken with pride.
Orangutan. @ 37:
The military lied about about Tillman
The military lied about Jessica Lync
The military lied about Agent Orange
The military lied about Depleted Uranium
The military lied about My Lai
The military lied about the Atomic Veterans
The military lied about secret chem/bio testing on troops & civilians
The military lied about Gulf of Tonkin
The military lied about Cambodia
[Deleted. Please knock it off. You know why. Site Monitor]
SamDog @ 23:
Very well said. The ideal thing would be for every person in the military, regardless if he or she is in Iraq or Afghanistan, to see the film Sir! No Sir!, which focused on the GI resistance during the Vietnam War. Perhaps, just perhaps, if they were to see this powerful documentary, they might finally realize that they actually have a brain and that they are not compelled to blindly follow the orders that they are given by the military and the government. Their first duty is to the Constitution, not to the military. The best way to halt this idiotic occupation is to have it happen from within. Soldiers-resist by saying NO to the war machine of the United States.
ConcernedCanuck @ 16:
Agreed. Just because the soldiers are stressed doesn't excuse them for actions such as this. In fact, making excuses like this tarnishes the service of the troops who don't engage in this sort of thing.
The military has lowered their standards so much that's it's hardly a surprise that they've let in recruits with psychopathic tendencies.
But hey, they're all HEROES aren't they?
These fuckers have me so pissed off. The misery they create. The god damn suffering the poverty. We better start realizing how awful these power brokers are. They set up the hit on JFK as far as I'm concerned. It's obvious. Look at the tape. Look at the autopsy fiasco. They started this whole occupation of Afghanistan & Iraq and everything for their greed/oil/wicked pride etc. Let's start talking openly about their crimes from Anthrax to 9/11 to crimes against humanity to everything. Election rigging is just the beginning of their crap. If we don't start talking plainly now, they are going to create another false flag terrorist operation like the Gulf of Tonkin and invade Iran. These people won't go out of power without a fight. I pray for Obama. I'm so glad that the people of Iowa put their trust in him and it looks like the people of New Hampshire and South Carolina are going to too. So if the whitest states and a southern state can elect him. Maybe he can lead us the way out of this god damn mess.
And you're right. I always mistakenly call this occupation a war when in fact it is merely an illegal occupation or worse. whatever the words are.
Orangutan. @ 43:
Sorry to break this to you....
but if Obama is the frontrunner, and he has been a darling of the Democratic party since his 04 convention speech....
he's a player in the system you described above. No one advances to the Chief Executive unless their loyalty has been vetted.
And this is of course all over the newspapers in Pakistan.
No wonder no American soldier is welcome there to fight Al Qaeda over there. That means the Afghanistan war is lost!
About the girl in Iraq? Don’t worry; she will be revenged. Remember all the foreign fighters in Bosnia for the Muslim cause? They will come, they are pissed, and they never forget.
The US will be just as save as Israel. For ever.
Truth B Told @ 44:
Hey man. If you have better ideas or more realistic ones.. by all means lets hear em.
Orangutan. @ 46:
vote against the media supported candidates.
that would be Paul or Kucinich.
You KNOW they are not owned by the power structure you describe above.
That is the only way out of the maze. There are incredibly powerful forces aligned to manufacture your consent to what has been done over the years. And this charade of elections is but another example of their control. You don't think that they would let something as trite as an election actually derail their plans that they have invested billions in, and sacrificed thousands of lives for, just whither because of "democracy" in the US? You have to vote against the media annointed candidates and vote for the ones who are ignored and marginalized - because they alone are the TRUE threat to that power structure.
So we can basically narrow this story down to two possibilities:
1. It's entirely true, and the perpetrators are a primitive form of scum.
2. It's entirely fictitious, and American officials capable of coordinating an inquiry are a primitive form of scum by not DEMANDING that punitive measures are taken against those who made such vile accusations against their own.
Truth B Told @ 47:
You might be right. But I learned from the Nader experience. I don't think you vote for a write in candidate. I'll take my way with Obama. I think change can be made in easier ways than hoping a Paul or Kucinich someday make the White House. JFK might have been a man of the "system" but he chose to represent the people. He was moving in the direction of cleaning up the system, hence his early departure. We need people in the House & Senate to impeach and actually investigate crimes. We need the media. We haven't even fleshed out the resources and power of the internet yet. Hey. I'm barely holding on to hope as I see it. I know we are up against the world on this. I know they control the media, money, military, and voting equipment. It's public opinion we have to take from them. Ron Paul & Kucinich help in this process, but if they can't get elected yet, we have to gage the public opinion and push it accordingly and in places we can succeed. If they aren't ready for Kucinich yet, we simply have the hard work of educating them about the system. That takes electing members of the House who will tell them and using the media in the places we can.... etc.
It would be nice to elect a Paul or Kucinich and have all our problems over soon. But I'd hate to lose the long term battle in favor of a few short term strategies or failures. The critical mass is what we depend on. I'm saying out of what I consider the electable leaders running for president, Obama is the best hope we have. The critical mass hasn't been reached yet on any others running for president. I don't know. Man. It's a good conversation to have. And I appreciate that opportunity. I'm worn out.
We're so frigging 'Hi-Tech', we have Smart Bombs, smart ammo, smart mortars and artillery shells, smart cartridges for the gatling guns in our choppers, even smart napalm, for christ's sake, so smart that all the victims of our weapons, 100% of them, are 'terrists', or 'insurgents', or 'enemy agents', of one sort or another.
I guess we need a bit of 'Hi-Tech' work done on our boots, so they don't kick 'friendlies', or 'allies', if there are any 'friendlies' left in Iraq.
If I were an Iraqi, I wouldn't be a 'friendly'.
Orangutan. @ 49:
I get tired too. Especially after the chapter length responses sometimes. But anyways, if you can sometime...reread the speech by Eisenhower on the Military Industrial Complex and grasp the actual scope of it - as it was during his age...and extrapolate the growth of it to now... it has metastasized. The United States you have been educated to believe exists - doesn't. Also, as a followup, locate Kennedy's secret societies speech and give that a listen. here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA
Our presidents have told us of the conspiracy to enslave us. We haven't listened, or were to distracted to notice. The only peaceful solution is vote against the system - by rejecting what They put forward and voting for the foe they don't want to face.
For all the multiple-posters above, discussing Obama vs. Hillary vs. Edwards vs (???).
Because of the Bush 'Legacy', the 2008 election should be a stone cold, solid lock for the Democrats.
The two democratic candidates most likely to upset that lock, are Obama and Hillary.
You will not recognize them when the republican machine gets done.
Are you going to pick Obama or Hillary over McCain, a few months after the next 'terrorist' event, when all the warnings are flashing, the sirens screaming, the alert colors at Red over Black Polka-Dots? OK, YOU might.
But do you think the vast, scared-to-death, soccer moms and afraid-of-seeing-jesus-too-soon, CrazyChristians and other whacked-out, fearful US public will join you?
Why will there be an attack? The Powers-That-Be are not a figment. They will not give up power politely. Even 'god' is on their side. Ask Huckabee. And Romney. And McCain.
War is hell, and so is the occupation of a country by a foreign power. That is why the US simply has to get its soldiers out of Iraq. These events will continue to occur as long as the soldiers have the guns and the power and the occupied have only their bodies.
The named tasks of the occupation were completed a long time ago. Why is bush keeping the soldiers there? Does he really need to kill more muslims to satisfy the blood lust that took him and the other neocons to Iraq? Hasn't he had his fill?
May bush and the others who have brought this living hell to Iraq rot in their own special hell after slow and painful departures from this earth.
Preacher Boob @ 52:
Actually, they don't have to do it before the election. Doing it after the election suits their purposes as well. The changes that have been enacted by a Congress of both Democratic and Republican control have given the government vast powers that need no listing here. It is expected that control will be handed off to the "opposition" party from time to time to perpetuate the illusion of change.
Most people expect it to happen before the elections - to justify Bush keeping power, but I don't see it that way. The tension will be built over the months preceding, then the elections go off without a hitch, the new President is sworn in, and everyone is relieved. Then the next 9/11 happens and the tension/terror is even higher than before and the next phases in the PNAC documents and Zbigniew's Grand Chessboard can be put into motion.
Truth B Told @ 54:
You could be right. We may be doomed. But we should put up our best fight.
Let's take a look at both sides of the story here:
1) The U.S. military side: 2 U.S. Soldiers were killed by small arms fire.
2) The Iraqi side: 2 U.S. Soldiers were killed by an angry Iraqi Soldier for kicking a pregnant Iraqi woman.
End result either way: 2 U.S. SOLDIERS DEAD AND THE U.S. IS IN NO WAY SAFER OR BETTER OFF BECAUSE OF IT!
I served in the military for 14 1/2 years. I work as a USCS on a military base. I work hand in hand with Sailors and Marines (and one Soldier) daily.
By and large, they are not the type of people who would do something like this. The caveat is, any person can commit a shameless and horrific act when pushed beyond their limit of endurance. I've experienced it. For the most part, I'm a very peace loving person, but after extended periods in the Gulf (I am former Navy), I was more than ready to push the button on a nuclear strike on Iraq myself. I had got to a point where I just didn't care about the Iraqis or anyone for that matter any longer. All I could think about was getting back to my wife and children. I was about a month past my limit for endurance. To this day, I honestly don't know how I coped with it at the time. The ship I was on had one guy who attempted suicide. Another ship I know of had a guy who had just had it and stripped down and walked off the elevator (pretty long drop from there to the water btw).
And that was those of us in the Navy.
99.9% of the Sailors that served in OEF/OIF were on ships, safe and sound, and the stress level got to people to that degree. Imagine what it's like for the guys sucking sand and listening to explosions and gun fire continuously.
I cannot begin to fathom how I would respond to that degree of stress.
The troops over there are not robots. They have emotions and feelings and fears and insecurities.
When planning a war and even more importantly, when planning an occupation, these things have to be factored in. Considering that we have guys on the 3rd and 4th tours in Iraq, it obviously wasn't and isn't.
Expect to hear more of these types of stories.
IPS News: IRAQ - Killer of U.S. Soldiers Becomes a Hero
the automakers won't let us have a compressed air car so we go globetrotting for fossil fuels at the end of a bayonet
There CAN be some truth to the "one bad apple" theory.
If that theory holds here, you can be sure that Blackwater was that bad apple.
Truth B Told @ 22:
Add my thanks too! I had heard something about a soldiers stopping killings but didn't know that it was there or any of the details. Hugh Thompson was obviously a soldiers soldier, a true American hero. Along the same lines there was a Russian(Ukranian actual I believe) tank commander at the 1956 invasion of Budapest that opened fire on Russian snipers on rooftops who were slaughtering unarmed civilians in the main square.
If this is true, those dead soldiers received justice. I've no pity for them, no honor, no respect. They ceased being soldiers when they chose to act like thugs. That is how nazis acted.
Had I been the company commander of that group, they would have received one order to cease and desist. If they failed to instantly obey that order, I would have summarily executed them.
I am a veteran.
Kathleen @ 21:
IF there is a GOD, I would pray for Him/Her to act on behalf of all humanity to help us end these terrible acts of man-kind.
But, sofar, there seems no-one to respond from the heavens or beyond.
We shall have to do this ourselves, we'll have to fight with vigor and suffering great pains while fighting for our freedoms, WE MUST DEMAND JUSTICE FROM THE LAWS, we have to fight for our HUMAN-RIGHTS wich are crumbling WORLD-WIDE while we write and talk about them.
Beautyfull and brave we must be, to confront THE GREAT CORRUPTORS the warmongerers and the fearspreaders, we'll have to confront them who have blood on theyr hands, who ordered naïve (child) soldiers to murder rape and torture and to die go crazy or be disabled for the rest of theyr lives. WE MUST DEMAND THE TRUTH!
The GREAT CORRUPTORS we must confront are;
The Bush administration and its (fascist) Corpocracy including the Main-Stream Media, they must stand trial; for fellonies and high treason, for war-crimes and corruption, for crimes against HUMANITY.
The Neo-Cons as a group and theyr individual members should stand trial, for undermining and destroying civil liberties and rights, for warmongering and GRAND-SCALE-CORRUPTIONS.
They also must be tried for a criminal conspiracy to obtain the Presidency by fraudulent and corrupt means, this happened twice, 2000 and 2004.
There's no way but to do this ourselves, with as many as we can, with "WE THE PEOPLE" as our army and its CONSTITUTION as our armour.
WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS!!!
If you think it's bad in Iraq, just wait until it's Iowa. The Bush gang is NOT going to just leave office. How can anyone be so damn naive. You keep saying wait until the election, wait until the Dems take over, then everything will be peachy-keen. Why in the world would Bush and Cheney give up the power? Because it says so in the constitution? The same constitution that they've been trampling all over and tearing to shreds for the last 7 years? Martial law is coming to a town near you. The United States of America is dead. It died in November 2000. The corpse is rotting and the media tells us all about Britney and Paris and Lindsey. WAKE UP DAMN IT!
Dave @ 63:
I share your fear. A great many things can happen between now and 2009. Our Government has already legalized torture and suspended Habeas Corpus. If this story is true, American soldiers beating a pregnant woman, our country has become no better than the Nazi Germany was.
The American Military was once considered the most professional and advanced in the world. Now it is turning some our young men into heartless animals. We have two men to thank for that.......Dick Cheney and George Bush. I pray to God they burn in Hell.
I heard a report on NPR this morning that explained that the US ARMY in Iraq is PAYING "former" insurgents and AQ fighters to be our "temporary allies".
WTF is going on??!!!!!!!!
Paul @ 61:
A veteran with zero mental-health training, I would hazard to guess.
ps. Thanks for your post, Tim in Japan.
If this is true (and given the lies from the US government and the media, I'm inclined to believe it), then this can be summed up in two words: Justifiable homicide. They got what they deserved.
This has been going on since day one. Anyone who does not believe that this (or Abu Ghraib or Haditha) is happening does not understand the meaning of the words "war" and "occupation". This is what you support when you support war (I'm talking to you, Hillary). Bush, Cheney, Kristol, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. don't understand this because they have no experience of it, and they don't listen to people who do.
Let's think about this as we expand this war into Iran and Pakistan.
Taarak @ 34:
I'm sorry, I must have missed that line. Please forgive me.
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