Romney and McCain fight for the right to own Iraq.
By John Amato Friday Jan 25, 2008 9:10pm
I guess their love for each other during the debate is over now. What these two don't seem to grasp is that the American people want us out of Iraq.
John McCain accused Mitt Romney of wanting to withdraw troops from Iraq, drawing immediate protest from his Republican presidential rival who said: "That's simply wrong and it's dishonest, and he should apologize."
Download | play Download | play (h/t billw)
Asked about the comment in Land O' Lakes, Romney balked. "That's dishonest, to say that I have a specific date. That's simply wrong," he said. "That is not the case. I've never said that."
"I know he's trying desperately to change the topic from the economy and trying to get back to Iraq, but to say something that's not accurate is simply wrong — and he knows better," the former Massachusetts governor said.
Campaigning later in Sun City, McCain took note of Romney's demand for an apology and said it is his GOP rival who should apologize to U.S. troops in Iraq "who are serving this nation in hard times and good" for his position.
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Before you know it they are going to invade Iran.
They're both insane.
Let Romney send his sons if he is so enthused about our soldiers dying and being maimed, blinded or suffer traumatic brain injury. Clinton too, send Chelsea. Let's see these patridiot hawks send their kids, rather than the poor who have little choice.
Insane.
Christ, if a Republican wins, I'd rather it be Romney than McCain. That guy may be pro-war, but I imagine he'd at least try to get us out, Nixon-style, which is better than not getting out at all.
woa...
what happened to the post regarding the press injecting race into the issue and then blaming the clintons
or did c&l start reading the comments by the clintonistas and really listening to the comments by both bill and hillary and decide that maybe the press is right
Medical Diagnosis by Video @ 2:
You took the words right out of my mouth!
We need a jumping off point for Iran and Syria.
Republicans like war. It takes the peoples minds off their other screw ups.
www.pafundi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Number of Operations Iraq Freedom and Enduring Freedom casualties
as confirmed by U.S. Central Command: 4392
None of the Democrats running will end the War on Terror. None. They will keep it running and will likely expand it.
I know you probably don't think so, because you can't possibly believe that they would tell you lies like the Republicans have over the last 7 years. But they all just fronts for the real power structure.
And that power structure wants war.
The military industrial complex will not let something like an election staged for the illusion of the masses get in the way of their agenda.
references:
Eisenhower, Military Industrial Complex speech
Kennedy, Secret societies and secrets speech
Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope
Ted @ 6:
Before you know it they will invade Jordan. ;)
Triceratops @ 8:
only after a staged attack in the pattern of Tonkin, the Lusitania, the Maine, or 9........
John McCain will probably have a heart attack before the election in nov. he is just
another handpuppet for the neocon reichwingnuts in the gop.
McCain is the one who should apologize for advocating that the troops should remain, for no justifiable reason in Iraq, where they can return to this country and fill up VA hospital beds across the country after being maimed and crippled, and being blown up, blinded, brain damaged, severely burned, missing arms and legs, psychologically scarred, all because of some nebulous reason [oil, imperialism?] in serving the Fatherland.
dadams @ 10:
the puppeteer has another hand available for the left wing branch.
(Slightly OT) Barack Obama (out of many, we are one) just gave a rousing speech in SC.
Hope you got a chance to hear it. This is Historic time.
The republicans are scared to death of Obama because they can't beat on him like Hillary.
So McLoser and Flip-flop Romney are probably feeling a chill in their blood right now.
Night folks.
Gee, do you think we will hear from the "librul media" about how these fights between Repub candidates will tear up the Repub party? Do you think we will hear the media "discipline" both McCain and Romney.
I won't hold my breath waiting.
But I will enjoy the fireworks if they continue...
ciu @ 5:
Truth B Told @ 9:
Aha, the Poland setup. How Hitleresque.
How can anyone believe that the Americans will ever leave Iraq? The second world war ended over sixty years ago, the cold war ended over a decade ago. Are there still American troops in Japan? In England? In Germany? Will they ever leave there? The Korean war declared a truce over fifty years ago. Are there still American troops in Korea? Will they ever leave there? Every place that the troops settle down in they build bases and NEVER leave. According to Wikipedia: as of 2003 there were 75,603 troops in Germany, 40,045 in Japan, 29,086 in South Korea, 10,499 in Italy and 10,331 based in Great Britain. Will they ever leave there? Why are they there?
Triceratops @ 16:
it fits the method operandus of the elites who call the plays but have the apparatchik execute the play . But it also hearkens back to the Democrats and Republicans from the past who worked to rebuild the German war-machine (harriman, dulles, bush)
Dave @ 17:
Of course not.
Its all in the playbook of the Democrats leading foreign policy guru, Zbigniew Brzezinski when he wrote in the Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives of the need for the US to become an empire and to adopt more authoritarian policies due to the inconvenience of democratic methods. Zbigniew is the foreign policy adviser of Barack Obama
Lets also not forget, the Neocons have a root in the Democratic party, not to mention the cross party affiliations in the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilaterals, and others of a more secretive bent.
The flip-flopping, dog torturing, cult member or the geriatric war monger who knows nothing of the economy. What a choice. How fun it must be to be a Republican these days.
The fact that Mutt's campaign wasn't over the second he said that his spoiled brats working on his campaign was just as important work as the men and women fighting and dying in Iraq proves that Republicans couldn't give two shits about our troops.
Triceratops @ 8:
I heard that's where all the WMDs are. The guy I heard it from heard it from, I think, God.
Truth B Told @ 18:
That's right. (i'm just pretending that i understand you, English is not my mother language ;) )
Dave @ 17:
Dave-
Very well said. Your figures demonstrate how rampant American militarism is around the globe. Unfortunately, it is extremely doubtful if a Democratic president would do much , if anything, to ameliorate this pervasive example of American imperialism which has become so dominant throughout the world.
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
SO GOES THE REPUGLIKKKLANS....DOWN THE TOILET WHERE THEY BELONG.
Great these two idiots want to buy Iraq but some how it will be Americans who foot the bill. - Oh how I hate Republicans!
Dave @ 17:
There are still nukes here and in countries around. Please remove them.
Truth B Told @ 7:
Well, when we talk about America losing its industrial base because of the "free-trade" gang, we tend to forget that America is Arms Merchant to the World. None of that shirt factory shit, or cars, or shoes, no we go for the big ticket items that the hotten-tots can't make. Remember that bullshit from the supply siders/free traders, that maybe if we couldn't compete in making cars, maybe Chrysler, etc should go out of business? Fuck the loss of jobs. The little piece-work jobs are for the wogs and chinks. We make the big ticket items, the high markup shit to sell to both sides. Then we foment war to keep the business prospects bright for the Military-Industrial Complex.
Really back on-topic: it's an interesting hair-split, this spat between McCain and Romney. Romney did call for a timetable, so that part of what McCain said is true. But Romney specifically called for a non-public timetable, whereas most people hearing what McCain said probably assumed that Romney asked for a public timetable (and McCain probably knew that most people would assume this, too).
linky (But you have to watch the whole thing to get to where Romney calls for a non-public timetable.)
It is absurd for Romney to state that McCain knows better. All I hear from McCain points to the fact that his ignorance is unbounded, both on the war in Iraq and on the economy. If John McCain want to be in Iraq, by all means send him to Iraq and let him stay there. As for defeating America, al Qaeda can make all the claims it wants, it won't change the essential truth, that America was defeated by the war mongering blowhards and economic ignoramuses currently in the White House.
The closest Mitt Romney's wild-eyed looking sons will ever get to seeing anything like our soldiers that are serving in Iraq is in the the last minute of this video clip where they set off some fireworks.
How utterly brave of them.
I'd day watch the whole thing, but it's an incredibly gross and disgusting look at this man and his family.
This clip should be sent to the inbox of every family that's got a son or daughter in uniform right now to show just how much this creepy little family "supports our troops".
What a despicable bunch of cowards these people are.
~Nyc
At what point did John McCain become a hero? When he was shot down? When he was tortured? Or when he, as an angry and combative young man went off to war? If the right can reframe John Kerry's service to his country as naked self-aggrandizement serving his own political ambitions then perhaps we can in turn reframe John McCain's service to his country as serving his own anger and bloodlust.
To weldon
The only thing with KKK attached to it, is Democrat Senator Robert Byrds organization he belonged to. Also, Republicans fought to end slavery in the civil war. Sounds like you have your political parties mixed up.
“That is not the case. I’ve never said that.”
I got a feeling Romney says that about 1000 times a week.
This is why Dr Paul's message is so critical right now: if a democrat, like Kusinich says we have to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and not expand the war into Iran, he can be dismissed as a soft lefty. That allows a "centralist" candidate like Hillary or Obama, who will continue the war on terror both against whoever the military industrial complex deems a target -- after all war is big business and a great way to rape the treasury -- and the American people through warrentless spying and the other police state programs being advanced. As evidence of this, both Hillary and Obama have declared that no options are off the table with regards to Iran and of course "you can't be to careful here at home since 911, there are Islamofascists under everyone's beds." (Sounds, not unlike Bush, that both are in the hip pocket of Israel here.)
Then whoever is elected as President -- Hillary is the annointed one right now -- they go in and basically expand upon the very same "republican" initiatives that Bush launched. They will claim the people were heard from -- just like after the 2006 election that put the Dems in power -- and completely ignore public opinion while doing so, leaving more and more Americans wondering what is going on.
The American people are being played, that is what is going on.
Dr. Paul, however, coming from the right and correctly pointing out how Republicans aren't even Republicans anymore but big spending communists really, disturbs the whole script. He is truly the most Republican from the individual liberty and small government perspective. And he thinks the war in Iraq is a tremendous mistake, just like most Americans and frankly most people around the world do.
With all the other Republican candidates scrambling to endorse the war they way they do, it leaves an opening for those truly opposed to the war to force the issue by supporting Dr. Paul if only to voice their concern about where America is headed. Even if you ultimately want to see a Hillary or Obama take the White House -- which I believe is a big mistake, nothing will ultimately change with either of them in power -- by registering as Republican and voting for Dr. Paul in the primaries, you actually do more from that side by showing the level of disgust with the policy of "pre-emptive war." If he wins the Republican nomination, then you can simply vote against him in the election. Still, the message will be very clear: the average American wants out of these costly and immoral wars, now.
McCain is supposed to be a fall guy, as Romney will be. They are there to lose, to Hillary ultimately, and if they take the Republican nomination the White House is a shoo-in for the Dems.
The only downside to your supporting Dr. Paul is he would be the only candidate on the Republican side who could overwhelmingly beat any Democrat. Which is what the MSM knows and is deathly afraid of, which is why he is ignored, marginalized and scorned. But his momentum is growing and if he runs a Third party candidacy, all bets are off. But he needs this Republican platform now for his ideas to be heard. And it is where his ideas are most effective.
I post this for comments, knowing I am setting myself up for derision, but how about this ticket, which due to the personal respect both men have for each other and their shared opposition to the Iraq war makes some sense, plus one has a smoking hot wife: Paul/Kusinich 2008 I would appreciate feedback for this question: If this ticket did form as a third party ticket, how much interest do you think it would generate with a strong antiwar and personal liberty platform?
I think it would mop the floor with any mainstream dem or repug offering. And he would be incredibly good for this country. (Have you examined his economic stimulus plan, plus what do you think about elimanating the IRS and income tax would do to reinvogorate this country. How would all the income tax you pay to the IRS help you on a day to day basis if you didn't have to pay it)
Anyway, I am hoping this comment can be posted in good faith and not attract too much vulgarity or baseless smears against either myself and Dr. Paul -- for example, he is advocating elimanating the War on Drugs because it unfairly targets blacks as well as allows the government more ability to intervene in our lives, so I don't want any "he's a racist" comments please because it absolutely isn't true, that's just another MSM attack and a weak one at that.
Anyway, put your thinking caps on. If Paul and Kusinich teamed up, how many of you might check it out? And/or how might that shift the tone of the overall election.
I invite your (respectful) feedback.
W Rocks @ 32:
Different party at a different time in history.
You guys are hilarious. Had Reagan talking about the good old days of the party like he was actually doing anything that resembled them and after a complete historical revision of St. Ronnies mis-rule here you are talking about how great he was at the same time you talk about the old days.
Wakey wakey little Repug, W sucks and the country is going to hell because of Republican policy.
I know it's hard to face reality, but you have to do it. You guys are wrong. Only when you can admit that can you get on with making things right again.
And the Paulettes make more appearances, doing there best to convince us that turd smells good.
When you wrote, "What these two don’t seem to grasp is that the American people want us out of Iraq"
I thought you were referring to Clinton and Obama.
No such luck.
Symes @ 36:
Ahh, the Hillary supporters making themselves heard.
To Symes,
First, Reagan won with the two biggest landslides in electoral college history, so he must have done something right. I guess that might be a little tainted, since he followed the biggest piece of moronic s*** in Carter.
Second, I would rather be on the side of trying to save the unborn child,fighting terrorism overseas verses our backyard, and capitalism, verses Clintons communism and abortion on demand, and B Hussein Obamas disregard for the American flag.
David @ 38:
Fuck Hillary. Who said I supported her?
You on the other hand made a really long diatribe about RP.
When are you going to go back to being RePug trolls?
Oh yeah! You still are!
Symes @ 35:
And the democrats have done exactly what to stop Bush? I mean, they basically took right off from where the Republicans stopped after 2006, you could barely tell the difference. Even Democrats were apoplectic with what they were doing.
Take your time, this isn't a trick question.
W Rocks @ 39:
Not quite little troll.
Carter holds the record of actually getting his initiative passed, something your St Ronnie never came close to.
He was also a foreign policy genius, accomplishing in his 4 short years what it has taken your guys 19 to undo.
The election? Held right after the October surprise, where it is documented that Republican insiders had back room dealing with the Iranians to hold the captives until after the election as over. Nice of Ronnie and the Repugs to do that, keep Americans prisoners in a foreign land to win an election eh?
As for the other talking points, get a life.
Republicans are obviously against capitalism, history is showing that they destroy the economy every time they take control.
The abortion crap is a nice touch, you do know it's a non issue to the voters don't you? And completely wrong.
And the cold war rhetoric, bravo! Irrelevant, ignorant and uninformed but it sure feels good to shout it when waving that flag doesn't it?
I see you aren't up to a real debate so I'll just leave you to shout slogans and talking points into the ethernet.
Symes @ 40:
I can understand your facination with turd, it mirrors your comments, full of stink and fury signifing nothing. And of course anything of substance has been consumed prior.
Until you -- and many others on both sides of the political spectrum -- pull your head out of where you are most comfortable and start seriously examining issues, instead of being split along paper thin party lines -- this country is in trouble and in no way will address the challenges facing us. And BTW your comments reveal you to be as narrow mined, as repugnant and as intellectually shallow as any neocon you proclaim to hate.
And it was a joke, but note to self, the Hillary comment struck a nerve with you. Who then do you support and why, because I don't see a toiletpaper's worth of difference between Obama, Edwards or Shillary. Take your time, I'm sure your answer will be very entertaining, if filled with simple four letter words.
I fully understand that you may be incapable of a respectful answer, but invite it anyway.
David @ 41:
I didn't say I was a Democrat either did I?
Frame the debate? I think not.
It is lazes faire capitalism that got us here and RePug is for even more of it with even less regulation.
Those regulations were put in place because the regulated industries abused the public so much that the government had to step in and protect us. And RePug want to go back to trusting business to do the right thing, sure. How naive do you have to be to actually believe that's going to work?
You sure make a lot of unfounded assumptions, I'd bet that applies to your undying support for a RePug as well.
David @ 43:
But you are a RePug, aren't you? And you are pushing a RePug aren't you?
That makes you a troll around here.
Your attempts to shame me and make me look ignorant and uneducated are pretty funny given this simple fact.
No, you don't get any respect when you shill RePugs here guy, just a quick kick and a face full of facts.
I haven't read other comments here, so this is probably old hat, but....
The Republican candidates single-minded support of this evil and criminal Iraq War may help them with the brain-dead Republican base, but when it comes to the general election almost a year from now...
1) 70% of the American people think this war is a mistake, and no matter what happens, I don't think that number will go down.
2) We are spending 17 billion of borrowed money a month on this war and bleeding the Treasury dry. Our children's children will still be paying for it.
3) I don't see how whoever wins, and it looks like it will be war-monger McPain, can do a 180 degree turn and start arguing we should get out.
4) Unfortunately, with the Republican lust for power, and the connivance of the pathetic MSM, anything could happen...we poor hopeful progressives have been burned so many times that we could be wrong again about this coming presidential election.
Nothing I like better than two repubs fighting, 'Comeover McLame vrs. Mittins Romp'
BUM BUM BUM,BUM BUM'S they are.
We Own The World - Chomsky
Adapted from a Z Media Institute talk, June 2007
"So if you look over the debate that took place and is still taking
place about Iranian interference, no one points out this is insane.
How can Iran be interfering in a country that we invaded and occupied?
It’s only appropriate on the presupposition that we own the world.
Once you have that established in your head, the discussion is
perfectly sensible."
Now this is the kind of crap that American people are so sick and tired of.
These two fools are asking American people to put them in the White House, even after witnessing the huge numbers of Americans, all over this country screaming and yelling to get rid of this entire Republican administration that have just desecrated our standing, all over the world and what are these two idiots, arguing about?
They want to stay in a country, that is crying out to the world to help them get these crazy lying ass murdering thugs, and the band of criminal contractors out of their country.
Even though we are witnessing the millions and millions of wonderful smart people who have wised up and left the Republican ticket, it is still difficult to understand how it is possible for even the few still hanging on to every word of this right wing media, that is playing on their ignorance.
I don't dislike the Clinton's at all, I just know what is in store for this country if we fool around here and give them the primary and I just can't fathom, how it is possible for other well thinking Americans cannot see through the charade of false coverage they are getting from the Rupert Murdock, owned operated and controlled media, that also finances her campaign. These are facts people and admitted too by none other then Senator Clinton herself, who says it's OK to except money from this man who is clearly fabricating and employing media people to lie and distort facts.
These people are financing her campaign for a reason folks. If and when she wins the primary, you are going to wittiness a very different seen from these people and it is not going to be good for this country.
Mitt Romney and John McCain, are licking their chops with the knowledge that they will not have to run against Senator Obama, because like the Clinton's have already found out, he is going to be a force to be reckoned with, that they cannot even fathom a way to beat him.
All you have to do is notice the tension, in the broadcasting of these people sense the Saturday night blow out from the Obama team, with all this race based coverage they are attempting to insert in the minds of American people who are not having any of the crap they are pushing on us with this hate race based coverage they are giving us.
Remember folks, it is not us at all, but the very people that sit their asses on our TV sets and spew this garbage for their own personal agendas, that have nothing to do with making this once again a great country.
So, not only do they want us in there with Bush, they want to tie each others hands in the rare event that either of them gets into the White House. Incredible. No wonder twice as many people are voting for the Democrats. Die monster die.
David @ 34:
"Now that I've framed everything my way, and specified exactly what responses I will accept, please let's engage in a free discussion of how amazing Dr. Ron Paul is!"
MC Cain is such a scumbag.
I'm glad both men see the importance on staying on the offense in the war against global jihad. I have to favor John McCain. Romney is a bigger flip flopper than John Kerry, and when Romney was governer of MA, he claimed to be a liberal- yet now he's claiming to be a conservative. I'm a conservative, but see Romney for what he is- a lying snake oil salesman...
John Mccain has my vote- He's a vet, and is real..
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