C&L's John Amato Joins Keith Olbermann For Post Debate Analysis
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Jan 30, 2008 11:26pm
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Following tonight's Democratic presidential debate in Los Angeles, Crooks and Liars' John Amato joined Keith Olbermann, Arianna Huffington and TPM's Josh Marshall on a special edition of Countdown to talk about the debate from the blogosphere's perspective.
John attended tonight's debate and said the atmosphere was highly charged and both candidates' supporters were out in force. When asked about Wolf Blitzer's questioning of Hillary Clinton about her Iraq vote -- calling it naive, John noted that while she will never say it was the wrong move and there's a lot of resentment in the blogosphere about that, the audience at the theater seemed to feel that Blitzer was piling on her and turned against him. Amato also brings up the fact that as soon as he dropped out of the race, Rudy Giuliani ran straight to John McCain to endorse him, looking like a "lost puppy dog" while John Edwards has played it cool and is waiting to see how things work out.
Nice work, buddy.
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Huffpo blog isn't that good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/hillary-clinton-blackwater
nuff said.
HOT DAMN.......we gots us a STARRRRrrrrrrrr.....congrats JA......well done.
Biochem/Molec Biol @ 1:
Arianna has some kick arse jewelry though. I could have killed for those pearls she was wearing tonight. And the earrings- magnifique!
looking good john
and if hillary does win the nom, and pulls that iraq bullshit on the campaign trail, the repugs will have her by the nuts
Who is that devastatingly handsome man with the chipmunk cheeks? ;-P
Good job, hunny.
maybe we all could go out by the seament pond and have some chewlips?
Way to go, boss. (he hates it when I call him boss)
:)
[Hey Logan, I'll just barge in on your post to say ya did good, John!!! :P Sitemonitor]
All kidding aside......I'd like to see more of JA on the tube....he carries with him a unique perspective from all of us..Thanks again John...well done
I hope Edwards doesn't endorse anyone right now.
I myself plan on writing him in on my primary ballot, if he isn't on it, and voting for him anyway. I don't like the other two choices and Gravel hasn't got a chance.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Number of Operations Iraq Freedom and Enduring Freedom casualties
as confirmed by U.S. Central Command: 4399
WOOHOO!! Congratulations John!
I'd like to see Arianna in person-BA-DUM-DUM!
Seriously,the commentary overall falls in line with my own thoughts.Very similar candidates.
The only one I could see plainly was of color and gender,and you know what?That doesn't matter to me,or anyone else in the d party(I think-I hope).Two earnest candidates putting out very similar messages.
Such a contrast to the reagan fest we saw last night...
Oh,yeah,I almost forgot...good on ya John,nice.
"cagey"...heh heh-haven't heard that one in a while:)
so....the windows version not working? I can only get tin can sound on quick time. What is up with the windows version. No sound. hmmmm...................?
And as far as Edwards is concerned,he was the candidate I resonated with the most.It bums me out that he bailed before super tuesday,it would have been interesting to see what the other 24 states thought about our choices.
We would have voted for him.
I think they are singing his praises mostly because he's gone and no longer a threat.It's one thing to parrot the right thing to do-let's see how it plays out.
Congrats John, you did good! :)
i think its pretty cool that with this election, we are seeing a definite seed change
the wingnut talkers and faux news are losing viewers, listeners and credibility, while the blogosphere is where the news outlets are now coming to get the pulse of the people
while this may not be the most important election of our lifetimes (i still think 2000 was, as seen by the shit hole america has become) it does come in a close second
This is dedicated to Mr. Amato -
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eCyrPbwtVkY
th'rev @ 15:
if you are ticked that edwards is out...dont vote for clinton
when he was rising in the polls in sc, the clintonistas started a very negative phone campaign against him
Forget about super Tuesday and November for a moment. Tonight there's a shimmer of hope as we gaze beyond 7 years of the valley of the shadow of death. Something to be excited about, if but for a moment.
...It is sweet Thursday, afterall.
Awesome John. Be sure to tell us about all the excitement again later on. That spreads the goosebumps.
Nice job John.
I'm gonna offer my analysis in two parts:
For starters:
This might be a bit of a stretch, but does anyone think that the Bush Administration might be trying to diminish the Iraq issue and raise the economy and other issues the Republicans "own" because they would rather see Clinton be the Democratic nominee in November.
If it's been said once, it's been said a hundred thousand times: Clinton would unite the Republicans against her.
Maybe the Republicans are a little worried about Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee because they feel he could beat them. Iraq is one of Obama's strongest issues, but the talk isn't about that. It's the economy and health care, which Republicans have been much stronger on, historically.
Secondly, regarding Obama and Clinton teaming up one way or another...:
I'm sure most Democrats would love to see both of the people on that stage tonight as a presidential ticket, but the reality of the situation is that both Clinton and Obama have too high a "star power" to play second fiddle to anyone.
Honestly, I think the best, and most logical vice presidential candidate for the Democrats is Bill Richardson, for several reasons: 1) He is a governor, and has executive experience. 2) He's a Latino, and can help the Dems win in the southwest, which can be swing states. 3) He has been strong on the immigration issue, and will help whoever the presidential candidate is in November.
To those that think John Edwards should be the VP nominee; do you really think he'll want to go through that charade again? Obama doesn't want to play second fiddle to Clinton, no matter how good their friendship might be, and neither will Clinton.
My dream ticket: Obama / Richardson. Who could have imagined that? An African-American and a Latino-American running for President.
congrats John...you did good? no sound on the windows version. Can't hear the post. Are there alternate links?
Shocking.
No one seems to care or notice that we are governed by a politburo - a party based aparatus of power - which is antithetical to the form of government specified by the constitution.
The talking heads - olberman, huffington, etc - the candidates - the MSM ... is anyone paying attention? Do people understand that the specific mechanism of subversion of our form of government has been the control and funding of the political parties and the subsequent control of the government?
What we are witnessing is a struggle for power within the politburo - from both parties. What we ARE NOT seeing is any sign from any candidate that reform is even feasible.
hard to say. can't hear the video.
Sitemonitor: I just downloaded the video and it worked for me.
as for endorsements, i really think the major players are gonna hold off till right before the convention, because since both michigan and florida are off the table, neither candidate will have enough delegates without the super delegates
for the first time in most of our lives, the convention may finally be interesting to watch
Hope to see you on Countdown John. These two tonight did the best thing by reminding us 'It's the republicans..stupid!'..Unity was the theme,just what we all need. Pack your bags bushco,and UN-pack yours McClain/Romney. Edwards as AG....OMG...the lobby folks will be out of business with him.
anon-
I've got a rusty pitchfork. Call me when you're ready.
Wait...I can't afford the gas to get there.
Not only did Rudy run to McCain, he declared John "the most qualified" person to be President. In that one moment of truth, Rudy just admitted what many of us have known all along, and that is that he - Rudy - was not the most qualified. Bet the people who supported him felt like a bunch of idiots.
Steve Jankowski @ 21:
i like richardson....but not as a vp.....as sec of state
i still believe that if obama does win the nom, his first choice needs to be webb
webb pulls in the moderates....webb shuts mccain up about iraq....webb shuts the blue dog dems up
John....Excellent Job with Keith ....Wonderful..and thank you for the lost puppy comment...wow
Yeah baby! I hope John becomes a regular on Countdown (who had the hard job tonight speaking over the crowd). More unity would be great thing....Edwards can be the key to this.
While getting on TV is awesome, being the miserable dude I am, I have to say,
So THAT's what it takes to get on TV with Olbermann...a continuous and steady upload of Olbermann video clips.
The CEO of General Electric has a rifle just in case, and is hiding behind the MSNBC tree of love, thinking:
"ehhhhhxcellent, my weapons deals will continue with Obama and Clinton in the White House (but not Edwards so I had to drop him), so no matter WHO wins, my weapons contracts with the government can go on and I can keep my yacht and my mansion. Let the little people of the world sort out their differences with petty guns, if they want to use them, that's their problem, I am above THAT."
John, you're too nice man. What goes on behind the scenes at that network, I would have let 'em have it. Then never get invited again...
But power is intimidating...
I can't help but think that the candidates came to the realization attacking each other would only cause division within the party. The civility shown by both candidates was refreshing, and hopefully both candidates' supporters will follow suit and show that same civility.
While I could never be accused of being a Hillary Clinton fan, I thought that the change in her attitude from previous debates show someone who can work with others to get things done. If Barack doesn't get the Presidential nomination (who I would like to win), I would now vote for Hillary if she does indeed win. If this continues to November, that is.
The Democratic party has enough problems with the MSM and the GOP without dividing its own supporters to the point of irreconcilability.
Great TV moment. To have the bloggers actually talking about the debate.
Good job all three.
I think that Josh made too much of the Obama Iraq moment. He's right in thinking that the reality behind the vote is too complicated to translate with out a good reductive set of lines.
Essentially her position is I supported inspections, not war and as a Senator int eh minority I could not stop the president. Where as Obama can Monday Morning Quarterback from the safety of having not been there. So Obama gave the better presentation on that, but it's hard to say unless the media amp that over and over again it makes much of a difference.
John had the better take that Hillary people will forgive and move on that Obama people will use it, but the overuse of it will cause a reaction against those who do, much as Wolf was booed. Therefore it isn't really the nut breaker it seems to be.
Hillary was much much better up front than Obama was. And frankly his willingness to censor the internet to protect children is a very very bad direction, it's what the republicans have been trying to do to reign in the net. Also his avoidance of the combined ticket was very poor.
I think both candidates at this point have to acknowledge the historical moment here and expect they will be combining forces. There is a reason the crowd went crazy for that question, it would be a huge mistake for the winner not to include the other for November.
Essentially the winner would be picking an unknown for the slot, over a candidate that really energizes distinct and very key demographics. Why would you ever do that?
great job, john! olbermann would do himself good to have you back on a regular basis...
th'rev @ 12:
i've seen her in person, and, with all due respect, i'd rather see nicole belle in person!
skippy @ 35:
SKIPPY!!! That's supposed to be between us! ;)
John - Most excellent my friend, you did great. Looked like you really had to push out the words over the crowd noise, but sax players got the lungs.
Great job. You sounded good. Opinion but no vitriol. Go you.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 29:
Hear hear! I whole heartedly concur! Webb is a military hero and balances out Obama well... he's from Virginia to balance out Illinois... Edwards = Attorney General, RFK-style. Richardson is great for State... who for Interior?
As an ardent Edwards supporter...
Obama owned the Iraq war Issue
Hillary owned the Health care issue... especially on the what is going to be the hardest selling point of the issue... how are you going to pay for it. The rethugs will scream about raising taxes and she showed that it is paid for. I know all of the studies and she has a case that will stand up in the GE
Hillary also came across extremely well on the economy. Bill did clean-up the mess that Bush I made and he made the biggest pay down of the national debt in the history of the US. Bush II fucked everything and took the national debt from 5.6 trillion to 9.8 trillion in the last seven years. Even Krugman who despises Hillary has given her credit for a solid understanding of economics.
Both candidates did well and it was a very substantive debate. By August though the economy is going to dominate the election as all of the shit hits the fan with the sub-prime fiasco... it has already eclipsed the war as the dominate issue and it is going to get much much worse... fast!
I don't like Hillary and Obama is more of a change candidate, but neither one spoke that much about poverty and NOLA. Obama did mention the Veterans once, but only in passing.
The Focus groups gave a slight edge to Hillary. KO and company aren't big fans of her and gave it to Obama. Josh Marshal was full of shit... Hillary did have a solid command of the facts on the issues, but he couldn't see beyond the one issue of the war.
Me and my primary vote... I can't say, I'm not wild about either of them but they sure are better than the Republicans so at some point I'll have to choose and in the general election I'll definitely be there for who ever is picked. There is too much at stake to stay home.
Congrats John 8)
Biochem/Molec Biol @ 1:
huffpo's a great site, except for the giyus and DoD trolls who infest the comment threads.
arianna's a classy, lovely lady with a good head on her shoulders nonetheless.
StirFry @ 31:
I was thinking the same thing. Josh and Arianna were in nice, quiet studios while John was standing by a loud mob of people -- it takes a lot to hold your train of thought in that kind of atmosphere, let alone hear yourself think and try to make your points -- but I thought they all represented the blogosphere well tonight and I think it's overdue that the blogs get more attention and cred.
Yes, the soundtrack was very tinny sounding, unlike most of your Countdown clips. Oh well.
Well done John. I hope we see you more often putting in "our" 2 cents.
I miss Edwards input in the debate, but I miss Kucinich more.
Steve Jankowski @ 21:
Rasputin @ 40:
bubba clinton and poppy bush are flip-sides of the same rusty buffalo nickel. they're both crooks who've skirted oversight and prosecution due to their rogue spook connections. that's why you see them frollicking around at bohemeian grove together.
that's also why you never saw bill clinton speak out against the neocon agenda with half the fervor you see him trashing obama with today.
I can never forgive MSNBC for what they did to Kucinich, Edwards, and forcing Pat Buchanon on us, but putting John Amato on was a step in the right direction.
Hillary wants to argue experience and Obama wants to argue judgement. Finally Obama has framed this debate. It is not good enough to claim that you are ready when you can't be trusted to be right. Her Iraq vote is indefensible. She did the worst thing tonight. She defended her vote to go to war.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 29:
I'm not sure about Obamas vp pick but Webb as secdef, Edwards atty.gen, Richardson state, Kucinich energy or agriculture. Also good onya John.
I would like to see John on T.V. more. He does good and he probably brings more people to the blog and that's good because this is where we get the job done and we all benefit when more people see that occur. lol. Good job.
You know uncle joe, I hadn't thought of Jim Webb as VP. Sounds intriguing. I might have to sleep on that one, but as long as Obama is at the head of the ticket, I won't complain about the VP candidate.
I have two words for you John ....
.....Sexy Motherfucker.
Just sayin'.
(note to self, lying to the owner will reduce the likelihood of a ban being issued in your direction)
kraft @ 47:
yes, it was good to see john in the national spotlight. hopefully, it's just the beginning...
> So THAT’s what it takes to get on TV with Olbermann…a continuous and steady upload of Olbermann video clips.
:-) Better that than having him sue you.
ITT: the liberal blogosphere becomes the MSM.
Christy Hannity @ 49:
no, no, no. obama as president should have edwards as vice president.
patrick fitzgerald is your attorney general. you want to get sh!t done and scare the crap out of crooks and liars, you make fitz your attorney general. he's like elliot ness, with a wicked sense of humor...
Steve Jankowski @ 51:
I wouldn't waste a good senator on the VP slot. Use Richardson or Daschle or something, but leave this great freshman class of senators alone. Whitehouse, Webb, Tester, my guys.
switchgrass @ 45:
The arguments run:
Hillary is a lightening rod for the Rethuglicans and has too much baggage.
Obama isn't going to win any votes from the party of angry white men (The party of Willi Horton.
My Prediction...
By the time that the General Election occurs, the sub-prime scandal will be blowing up like an atom bomb because the worst hasn't really come to the surface yet, the market will be in meltdown, lay-offs will be staggering and...
The Democrats could run a blind Carmelite Nun or a Chimpanzee or Fred the pool guy and still win!
Those argument won't hold up against either candidate and If Hillary wins look for a Clark VP selection.
If it is McCain on the GOP side which seems likely, Hillary will counter with General Clark to neutralize the Military experience crap from McCrazy and for good measure... Clark was a Rhodes Scholar and happens to have gotten his degree in economics at Oxford.
Oh and John Amato, you did good. Any panel with you and Josh is going to be fun and entertaining.
I just don't buy that "McCaincient" is gonna be this big threat to any Democratic candidate. My prediction is that McCaincient will fall like Bob Dole. And I'm (only) not talking about off a stage. ;-)
Rom: Fitzgerald? He didn't quite finish the Plame case did he....he could of done better on that one.But then again theres no statue of limitations on treason.
We can only hope that Fitz. is simply buying time at this point, mud ...
ROM Spaceknight @ 46:
Sorry but that isn't true. I personally didn't like Clinton and I never forgave him for NAFTA, but he did clean up Bush's mess and make the largest paydown of the national debt. That's history so please don't try to argue that.
At one point Clinton joined with his Treasury Secretary and went to Congress to investigate corporate accounting practices... as in the Enron crap. Congress fought him back and resisted any attempt at over-sight of the corporations.
Guess who it was who led the Senate opposition to Clintons request for investigations... Joe Lieberman!
The GOP and DINO corporatists actively prevented Clinton from any attempt at over-sight hearings.
As I said... I'm not a big Bill fan, but had congress worked with him Enron and the Dot com bust might have been averted.
Yep, thats a pretty good representation of the liberal blogOsphere on KO. But C&L kicks the most ass, I must say.
To be a little more specific, Clinton did it by delegation of authority. He had Gore do it. (see Gore's book written whilst he was vice-President titled like "Reinventing Government")
Stan Rosenthal @ 63:
somehow...I think my legs are gettin all wet....that happens when you piss into the wind.
I was at the debate/rally... Here's my wrap-up, w/photos:
http://hiphopisread.blogspot.com/2008/01/rally-in-cali-s-se-puede.html
anon @ 23:
uhm... yeah. your basically right. our country is run by political parties that control the government. Its kinda been that way since the early 1800's and hasn't changed a lot over the years, so most of the MSM doesnt consider it news....
You're right (I hope) Rasputin. The VP in this case is not critical. I see Fitz as special prosecutor for war crimes trials and war profiteers.
My predition for McCainceint's campaign in the general election -
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hWib8GbrIlA
Ivan @ 68:
Nice pics. Mamas for Obama! LOL! The huge crowd there gives me great hope.
StirFry @ 72:
Thanks! ;-D It was damn near a spiritual experience out there.....
Wow, three bloggers instead of three bobbleheads. Makes me almost forgive MSNBC for Tweety and the morning joe and his prattling sidekick. Finally some analysis, But they are nonetheless analyzing a beauty contest.
Nice work, John, despite the crowd noise behind you. I Look forward to seeing and hearing you at the conventions reporting on the demonstrations.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 5:
Did you actually know Joe McCarthy? Cause you sure as hell spew like him, venom and bile. Why don't you get on a website, where every comment is hatred for Hillary Clinton and enjoy your own self-induced orgasism. Oh, thanks for saying she's got nuts, which you are sorely lacking.
Congratulations on a very good showing tonight. I was watching and was not aware that you would be appearing with Olbermann. Anywyas I am sitting there and hear "from Crooks and Liars" and I was pleasantly surprised and said to my buddy "I know that site, I am there about 8 times a day."
Anyways I just wanted to let ya know that you had a great showing, and I won't be surprised when you are invited back, ultimately being a frequent guest like Rachael Maddow has become.
www.HyerStandard.com
Good work, John. I'm proud of you.
DJ
Nothing against her, but Arianna is a rich lady who has parlayed a personal fortune into semi-bobbleheadhood. I'm glad she's on the left, but isn't unusual at all to see her on the tube in one capacity or other. Still, she is a blogger.
Josh is great. I don't agree with him 100% of the time, but liberal muckraking is something that had been nearly extinct. He does a good job - a blogger par exellance!
John? I hate to suck up, but I spend as much time here as anywhere. 'Nuff said.
For me, history was made tonight. After a major political event, three people, all bloggers who are all likely to have read comments I have made, provided the panel for commentary on a major network.
Wow.
The blogosphere has arrived! I listened to Reid sneer about our unhappiness over the FISA bill he brought up - but he was forced to acknowledge it. I am watching Wynn running scared from Donna Edwards - and I remember "macaca." The MSM has been doing it's best to marginalize and ignore us - and let's face it - they are winning most of the battles and will for a while. But the tide has turned. Remember that five minutes after low tide, the tide is still pretty low - but if you are parked close to the water, it's time to move your car back.
So John, Kieth is great and I watch him every night - but he is under contract to GE and could be fired tomorrow. He often expresses my opinion, but whether you knew it or not, you were representing me up there.
Thanks.
You were the best, John. I guess that's why I like this blog soooo much better than the other two!
Rasputin @ 64:
you're making a good cop/bad cop argument.
they both collect paychecks from the same jack@$$.
Kieth,Not Objective Anymore, Olbermann Is Becoming Chris Matthews
Kieth Olbermann was the last stand out for anyone willing to be objective toward Hillary Clinton. Lately, he has become as common as the everyday bias commentators at MSNBC. Yes, he has become one sided in his ability to give us a fair assessment of the two candidates. The biggest lost in this story, is his appeal. Clinton may be unfavorable with the media and the online bloggers, but in total, she has a lot of would be viewers.
In the first video, Olbermann asked about the "substance" of the debate. Everyone reported in and the flow of information was halted when Olbermann saw and opening in which he could do what they do over at MSNBC all the time and that is focus on Clinton's negative. When someone mentioned she may of not done so well in the area concerning the Iraqi war, he wanted to know how much damage might of been done. Tomorrow, the focus at MSNBC, will be Clinton's Iraq answers, as if that was the only questioned asked. It sad because instead of the commentators letting the viewers know they can be objective, unlike Chris Matthews, they have become little Matthews who are only concerned with Clinton negatives.
What will the folks at MSNBC do now? There were no arguing for them to play up as how dysfunctional the Democrats are. If the commentators turn this debate into a war, they are good; I mean really good. There was no fight tonight. Lets see if the players at the MSNBC camp can make one up.
Joseph
Thanks everyone! It was really wild in the Spin Room. I had to push through a mob to get to the make shift studio. It was really loud and I almost got knocked over a few times..lol CNN did a great job dealing with a mad house and everything ran like clockwork. The MSNBC team was top notch too. I sat in the live audience for about 50 minutes. I'm sure it was as electric on TV. Just got home a little while ago. It was a great night at the Kodak. No matter who you want, they made a statement of party unity.
Joseph, you could at least spell 'Keith' correctly, since there are so many examples of the correct spelling on this website, including the title of this post...especially if you're going to bold it.
Other than that, why would you expect a commentator to be objective? He's hired to give his opinion.
I think I saw a (very) little of what you're talking about, and I think it's a point to consider. But to think that Olberman's becoming Tweety is over the top, IMHO.
World Goes 'round In Circles, John. :-)
John Amato @ 82:
well I don't want either of them, but I'm glad you were there. You looked great. I hope that's because you're feeling well. I saw an old interview with you, and while the lighting on the other interview was very green I gotta ask: Have you lost weight? It looks like it...
miss_kitty @ 83:
Maybe you could be a spell checker for a living. Thanks
godfor your point. Oh, what was your point? Oh I know; I can't spell correctly. Sorry KIETH'S name was spelled incorrectly.Joseph
Joseph @ 87:
See the bolded part. That was my point.
I have a spell checker. Maybe you should get one. And I don't think you're really sorry about misspelling Keith's name, so why fib about it?
John Amato @ 82:
John I liked the fact that you seem to be original in your answers. After Arianna Huffington exposed her clear choice for who was the better of the two, your contribution to the question was careful and professional and neutral . You made me proud to affiliated with the site. Thank you for the outstanding showing.
Joseph
Hillary was lame as usual.
She panders way too much. She is the corporate choice between the two.
The MSM pukes just let her run her mouth the entire time and then the beard just kept trying to reframe the questions when it was Obamas turn to answer.
Hillary is unelectable vs. McCain and the MSM will do everything within reason to stop Obama.
> Hillary is unelectable vs. McCain ...
Garbage.
> Maybe you should just keep your comments to yourself. ...
Spoken like a true censor-nazi.
Joseph @ 91:
Hahahahahahaha. Sorry but why should I do what you say? Oh wait. I'm not sorry....
uncle joe mccarthy @ 29:
BTW: Even though I'm defending the former First Lady, my preference between Senator Clinton, Senator Obama and Senator McCAnceint is Senator Obama for President.
Stan Rosenthal @ 93:
Thanks Stan. He still hasn't figured out my point, which was not his spelling. BTW your music link is broke over on LNMC
Yes, because the filename is (in parenthasis) if messes with WordPress's interpretation of the link. Copy and Paste the address into your browser's address dialog box and it should work fine.
Stan Rosenthal @ 98:
Yeah. It does...
Go ahead and think that. The truth hurts old man. She is a divisive figure and is unpresidential. Independents will jump into the ReThugs lap. McCain is the better candidate in every area vs. Hillary.
If you haven't already (upon listening to that song), miss_ and John, do look up the word "compere" in a decent dictionary. :-)
> The truth hurts old man.
Tell that McCAinceint. He needs to know.
> She is a divisive figure ...
Garbage. The folk claiming that she's divisive are the real divisive.
> and is unpresidential.
Straw man. Attack the real former First Lady, you're missing your target. And you've been missing it for about 15 years now.
This is like a Dole quote -
> Spoken like a true troll
"And he runs by screaming "everything you know is wrong
*BLACK IS WHITE UP IS DOWN and SHORT IS LONG*" - "Genius Al" Yankovic
Joseph @ 102:
Took you long enough to come up with such a weak retort. Troll. Is that all you've got?
Joseph Joseph Joseph. Hey! Not in my league.
Takes a troll to know one old sport.
I havent really found any indipendant voters that would vote for Hillary Clinton.
Ive actually talked to Repubs that like Obama.
Keep buying into the popular narrative of the Clintons being so great. They gave the entire country to the rethugs and the corporations. You get what you deserve sucker.
> Keep buying into the popular narrative of the Clintons being so great.
Straw man(s). And you're bearing false witness about the "Lame Stream Media" as well.
> The blog world will pass into American history as just another short winded fad.
Certainly. Just like USENET and ListServ did before blogs. But we'll come up with another method of overcoming your (attempted) censorship of course. :-)
Wow, what a panel Keith assembled! You're looking great John :-)
Nice job, John! Good comments. It must have been a bit rough with all the noise in the background, too.
The key difference between you folks and the MSM is that you put out the case for A or B, but didn't make a bunch of silly predictions.
Oh, blogs may not be a fad.. but I'm hoping, praying, and wishing the word "blogosphere" is..
Alex, it only started now. Don't get bored with the word so quickly!!!! -
tbsn.thesequencers.us
Hillary's ACTION on the issue of IRAQ
--------IS-------
So similar to her ACTION to BILL's Infidelity.
or similar to a Mother's undenial support for an alcoholic husband or addicted sons and daughters to keep secret a family secret and trying to SAVE FACE when a scandal has been leaked out of saving a family name.
The secret is more than what meets the eye. Her winning the Presidency is the means to keep the secret.
Proud American @ 114:
I don't think this is the kind of LEADERSHIP that AMERICA need right now. This is NOT about just being a "figurehead" and having all the rest be solved by the kinds of cabinet that ONE PRESIDENT can bring in to the White House.
The TRUE TEST (if you will) will COME at the final stage of the RACE. WHO will uphold the U.S. Constitution and hold the lawless Bush/Cheney regime accountable? Who will support IMPEACHMENT?
I would be surprise if she would support it. IF SHE DOES PROMISE to raise the U.S. Constitution above ANY president, SHE WILL WIN A LANDSLIDE.
IT will be her BEST POLITICAL SAVIOR. If she breaks that promise once elected President, AMERICA would have given her enough rope to hang herself politically.
That IS the GENIUS of our U.S. Constitution.
I haven't heard any complaints about how healthcare is being talked about by these two candidates. One wants to make you get an insurance policy and the other says it will be available for everyone but cheaper.
I'm paying $10,416. /year for health insurance, and that's at group policy rate. Factor in my gross annual pay of $39k, and my take home check (after taxes) is $366. week.
My mortgage payment is less than my healthcare payment a month.
These candidates (gop and dems) have got to see SiCKO and realize that we shouldn't treat healthcare like auto insurance. It's simply a need that everyone has to have. It should be no different than law enforcement, fire departments, the FDA, or any other government run entity. Nobody should profit from sick people period. Our Nation can do it. If we can give our veterans healthcare (granted it needs improvements), we can extend that to all Americans. Keep the lobbyists out. Current healthcare is a burden on Americans and does affect the economy. Gasolene prices, food prices, utility costs, and healthcare premiums,... what's left for hard working middle class workers once you pay for these essentials??
I think Joseph won the debate with miss kitty,
this time.
Finally, a decent debate. Who won? The U.S.A.
Wow! Talk about a good looking guy- and so well-spoken. Go John!
What a face Arianna made when Olbermann said let the voters decide! Oh yeah, let's talk about THAT (pssst- supervoters)
WR @ 116:
No one wants to hear about complaints....their too busy trying to win the democratic nomination. The debate is geared to mustering votes from the immediate audiences that will get them the nomination for the Presidential ticket. Sound-bytes is all you will get at this time of the game or race.
If you want to affect the race check out their voting records is the first step.
WR @ 116:
by the way.....if you agree with SICKO then you should consider Ralph Nader. He supports single-payer universal healthcare system.
Excellent job!!!
Great work John!
And in the presence of greatness too...
Here's to more of the same.
Good job, John!
Now that the race is narrowed to two, my dream ticket would be Obama/Edwards w/Richardson as Sec. of State. I'm afraid that John McCain will be the rethug nominee. Besides his being an obvious panderer, he is too old and not seemingly of very sound mind. Now, if they remake the movie "Night of the Living Dead", he could definately be a star! No makeup required. Yikes!
krisken @ 33:
Yep! Hopefully we won't self destruct before Nov.
Good Job John!
BTW: My wife thinks you're kind of sexy and wants you to date her sister.
I'm glad Keith is inviting you on, keep it going, the more people know about this site, the better!
Josh Marshall is a jerk, I literally cannot stand his blog, he twists the facts until they scream. Bloggers like Marshall should come clean with their bias, and stop trying to convince the public it's seeing something it's not. Marshall and Huffington are two of the most bias people on the internet, and not worth the time, you couldn't find the truth at either without a search warrent.
LolaLola @ 127:
Josh Marshall exposes Washington corruption better than anyone else and he deserves our thanks.
Prime time on a major news network – and FOUR liberals and NO right winger talk about major news...!
I didn't think I'd ever see the day.
Ariana couldnt help but swing on Hillary. At least she kept it to a minimum.
Joseph @ 81:
I was actually shocked two nights ago when I made myself watch Dan Abrams and he was defending Hillary in connection with points made earlier this week by Obama. He, Rachel Maddow and someone else (can't recall at the moment) went through point by point scoring each one on which was factual. Abrams spent a whole lot of time talking about how much the media is in the tank for Obama.
Being an Obama person I probably don't get as wound up about that as I would if she were my candidate, but I was actually glad to hear someone that prominent in the MSM at least speak on behalf of balance. Fact is they generally do weigh in heavily in favor of Obama (though they'd deny it to the death), which scares the hell out of me.
LolaLola @ 126:
Time to stop throwing overboard every Democrat who objects to what she and Bill have pulled so far. Josh Marshall is an ardent defender of the truth. Ted Kennedy has been in the front lines on every issue important to us. What's emerging here is the polarization that was feared from the beginning -- and it's a word usually associated with her, incidentally.
Ultimately the enemy does not need to be named here, and blasting the enemies of our Enemy over who they like for the nomination is just dangerous.
"...Rudy Giuliani ran straight to John McCain to endorse him, looking like a “lost puppy dog” "
You mean "ran straight to Joh McCain to endorse him, looking like a guy who hopes he ends up being McCain's vice presidential running mate.
Same old Hillary bashing by the C&L family.:-( She
will make a terrific president & so will Obama. Are we Democrats
or not? Hillary is intelligent but a woman. It's annoying
to the sexist phony Democrats who wouldn't last a second
in a toe to toe debate with her. BTW-you Hillary haters are
in the minority & in a general election she will kill McCain. Stick
up for either candidate. We need a Democrat in the White-house.
Huffington on the other hand hates Hillary because the green eyed
monster of jealousy is killing her. Forget her. She's a Republican anyway.
John was fine. The best of the bunch. No favorites. Good man.
2008 @ 98:
McLame is the better candidate? Well, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. But seriously, you MUST be joking.
Atta Boy John!
MSNBC could have eliminated dude in the middle and it would have been a better conversation.
BTW watch out John I think Arianna was smittin'.
BTWll Faux Noise gets Karl Rove for analysis of Super Tuesday? Can they be that desperate?
curtilingus @ 113:
Joseph couldn't win a debate with a tree stump. You
hate Hillary so of course you disagree with miss kitty.
Keep playing your favorite tune, "Cellophane Man." We
can see right through you, curtilingus.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 5:
What Iraq bullshit?
Um, s'cuse me...but the republicans will strike it home that Obama *says* he was against the war, but continued voting for funding, the Patriot Act, etc...he wasn't IN a position to vote for the Iraq Resolution (a DETERRENT) but he WAS in the biggest Dem stronghold in the Midwest...what do you THINK he was going to say considering he wasn't visible to the rest of the country? My God don't you people think things through, are you that easily fooled?
Clinton *voted* for the Iraq Resolution; that takes away their "she's weak on terror" crap...
Obama didn't even show up to vote on the Iran Resolution...
Obama doesn't like controversy; he's too scared of taking a stance on anything when it comes to putting it on paper, signed, sealed delivered.
Apphouse50 @ 128:
Wow...is it Clinton that's doing the polarizing, or the media taking her and Bill's comments out of context, then Obama capitalizing on it with his internal memo that was "leaked"?
Do you trust MediaMatters?
http://mediamatters.org/items/200801130004
Do you trust HuffPo?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_8120...
It's all politics...but you do not divide by the lowest of the low subject of race as Obama has clearly been attempting with even CONSIDERING letting this memo be drawn up.
The question remains from the factual links posted above:
Is Obama's camp only getting their news from the media outlets, or is Obama's camp using race to divide us?
This question alone has pushed me away.
Mike @ 134:
I don't know you guys and I would appreciate you leaving me the hell out of your post. I am trying to be civil. It is becoming a bit unnerving to have my name used in the way you do. I will get you off my back.
Joseph
Joseph @ 80:
Exactly...MSNBC didnt' even MENTION that Hillary won Florida with 800,000 votes...I'm sorry, but if George Bush's daughters so much as sneeze, they make the news...so I'm thinkin a high powered PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE winning 800,000 votes even if she doesn't get delegates would at least warrant a mention, huh?
Hillary haters disgust me.
Apphouse50 @ 127:
The point I was trying to make in all of this was the following: When the right-wing media interfere, with amounts to millions of dollars of free campaign ads, it makes it bit more harder to determine where Obama's appeal is coming from. I really wanted Obama to distance himself from the right-wing media attacks. That would of seal my support for him. As it stands, feeling the media's influence is wrong on so many levels, I may vote for Clinton to protest.
Thank you for your comments. They were very well developed.
Joseph
Re: Joseph
Dead on. I watched cup o' poop this morning and your predictions were accurate. Olberman, it seems is not able to buck the nonsense re: Hillary. I suggest that everyone read the dailyhowler posts over the last couple of weeks for detailed analysis of this phenomenon.
Good job John.
Maybe this has been mentioned already. I can't read all of the comments, but how inspiring was that debate last night? When you consider how nasty the debate was on Wednesday night with the wackos on the right, last night's debate looks even better. I have followed politics all my life and its gotten more and more negative and "he said, she said" every year.
But last night was truly inspiring. They talked about the issues. There were real differences, and those were pointed out and debated. Even when Blitzer tried to turn it into a mudfight they held strong and stayed positive. I loved it. It really held my interest and turned my republican wife into a Barack Obama believer.
Hi Josh: Your reply about Hillary was truthful &
intelligent. These qualities are rare & appreciated.
Nice going.
Joseph @ 80:
I noticed the same thing. Thank you for saying it. I lost respect for KO tonight. It seemed that KO and Rachel Maddow (and she did it again on the Today Show this morning) wanted to discuss only how Hillary voted on the authorization bill. I know that this one vote is a sticking point for some voters, and it's worth making the point, but now move on and report on some of the other aspects of the debate. It seems that pundits start out objective with interesting insight and analysis, but the lure of fame and comfort of being one of the TV talking heads seems to get to people. They become aware of the power they now wield and try to influence rather than inform. That's what impressed me about John Amato's commentary. It was insightful and informative and I didn't feel as if John was trying to get me to vote for one candidate over another.
As to the MSM distorting things that, for example, Bill Clinton says, that wouldn't surprise me for a second. On the other hand, when people like Robert Reich go public with the anxiety they have over reports of what Bill says and the effect on the party, that tells me that Bill is missing something here. Namely, that no matter how tired, how hacked off, or how energized he may be at any given moment, a race between the first woman and the first African American candidates is going to require some verbal restraint.
What has always bugged me about the Clintons is the sense of entitlement and inevitability they constantly want to foist on us. So if they want to get carried away with themselves and try to marginalize Obama as the drug-using black guy, they're playing with fire here, for themselves and the party. I no more believe that the Jesse Jackson comment was inocuous or unplanned than I believe Bill didn't inhale. These are smart people who plan most everything out. And they should not act surprised when terms like "fairy tale" get spun into something else.
Obama has a lot of folks telling him he needs to be more forceful and more clear on what the "C" word really means other than something on his bumper stickers. And he has a lot of supporters who think he needed to take the gloves off after everything from what he wrote in kindergarten to what he admitted to freely in his book and what he really meant about MLK and Reagan have gotten spun. When she brought up Rezko because she doesn't want to be accountable for Wal-Mart, I half wanted him to bring up Jackson Stephens, Huang, Lippo and others for a half-second before I said, "Take a breath, now."
I think we've seen enough up from the Clintons that if we never listened to a talking head or looked at a blog (notice how I tend to disregard newspapers anymore?), it'd still be pretty clear they've tried (successfully, I fear) to make him the "black guy." They play for keeps. And come November, if she's the nominee, we'll need that. But I see this party getting polarized -- and that's always been a word people use in connection with her.
He knows full well how the MSM will try to eat him alive if he ever got the nomination. I'll be shocked if he has anything close to the baggage McCain and Hillary have, and you know all THAT is being dusted off even as we speak. But if it's there, they'll find it and run with it. Count on it.
Joseph @ 138:
John ,for you I stayed up to watch great job, you need to be on teevee more often. Thanks for the heads up sorry I can't "see" who it was but you were close as to what time John would be on
Good show John. Good to see a real Blogger on TV for a change.
Ariana Huffington say Hillary's best line:
"it took a Clinton to clean-up after Bush 1 and it will take another Clinton to clean-up again after a Bush 2."
But it will take Someone special to bring people together to clean-up our government from top-to-bottom and inside-out. Sweeping the "dirt" UNDER-THE-RUG is not really "cleaning-up". The only "CHANGE" in this keeping the "DIRT" hidden away from VIEW.
AMERICA wants CLEAN-HONEST and well lit GOVERNMENT. Transparent, NO DIRT, and NO RUGS, lots of SUNSHINE and a WELL GUARDED U.S. CONSTITUTION .................Otherwise, it will be SAME ole Same old...Culture of Corrupt Washington D.C. that will trickle-down to the local government.
The TIME IS soooooooooo RIPE for realllllllllll CHANGE. AMERICA can make this happen if WE REALLY really really WANT IT.
Congratulations John. Many more I hope. Keep up the great work. Unlike the propogandists out there, credibility is the goal. Money from the machine will help you financially, but hurt where it matters. Credibility. Get credibility and the big dollars will come. Keep up the great work. Keep your principles, John. you are the man. :)
The Political Analysis, the Democratic debate.
Both Democratic candidates are very good. Obama or Hillary has “the ability” to become President. Obama has a very interesting charisma that is very likable. Hillary, has fifteen years at least of Media slam to over come historically what many consider is likeable with a brilliant career. Hillary is a person I grew up with and watched in the public arena regardless of the media or political analyst.
The one thing that is most striking in the negatives is Hillary will definitely change the direction of money flow in the country which is precisely what the Neo-Con doesn’t want. And for Bill to have a second chance with the hind sight and extraordinary time with experience as a previous president an ideal that is historically presented as an incredible opportunity that very well would change the dynamics of the Democratic movement.
Moreover, across the Board, most of the Media, takes the silly position to cry about the ideal that there is not considerably more money to be made within a Clinton economic approach than the current Neo-Con Bush/war approach. Which Clinton’s is very likely to be better. Also, it should be injected that a huge opportunity to redeem himself, Bill Clinton, for poor personal judgments made with his involvement with Lewinski. Here the Evangelist may vote for him to give him the chance, they are forgiving but would like responsible action on abortion and same sex marriage which is possible.
They both are great politicians to support, but Obama is so new I needed some way to get to know him. Because with that said Obama has little experience in the ways of power and money, were in a lot of ways the Clinton’s out rank Obama enormously. So, I bought Obama’s book called “Audacity of Hope” to get some ideal of what is in Obama’s head. There are a few surprises which are a disappointment that I will share with you, but read it for your self, likely you all my come away with a different point of view, but that’s life.
My view takes a trip into this ideal were Obama is on a rant along with media that supports Obama and his stand against the war in Iraq. There is a huge gap in the understanding and the thought process of real time experience here. Especially displayed by Huffington her descriptions and that other fellow, forgot his name, and actually who answered his own question. Making claim Hillary had no good reason to support her argument in her vote for the war.
Sheesh, indeed the whole intelligence system had been manipulated, massaged, tweaked, and cooked very well to confuse not only the electorate, but the representatives. How could anyone make the right choice at that time? And, here, the media constantly asking for an apology from Hillary because of her choice in voting for the resolution with the majority, all the while dismissing the ideal we know now the execution to get the job done was horrible, and still the media continues to talk about that ? Amazing.
The real high light is the fact that Obama did not officially act as a Senator till “after” all this voting was done on the Iraq War resolution. An extremely important place in time to dismiss. From my point of view this adds a great deal of irresponsibility to not only Obama but to those in the media that completely ignore the fact Obama did not have to participate in the stress, evaluation, person interactions, and real record in a recorded vote glaringly by the majority of the Senate.
Here, Obama did not have to buckle up in the Senate seat to make the historic vote and have it recorded for posterity. Obama can just express his opinion, make speeches, and reject the war in Iraq. Sorry but that’s easy for anyone to do. For those who see this in that penetrating way, like I do, it’s sad for a man to use his influence this way, especially as a presidential candidate. That’s scary.
Great job, John. Are bloggers supposed to be this good looking?
BAC
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