And so it begins...Obama excitement=Cult
Whenever I write about the horrible treatment Bill and Hillary receive from the media, some Obama supporters think that the media will never do the same to Barack. Let me make this point very clearly. The Villagers will turn on Obama in a heartbeat.
Case in point via our pal Will Bunch:
Jake Tapper (left) is an ambitious Philly-area kid who parleyed a date with Monica Lewinsky into early admission into the Gang -- now he's ABC's chief political correspondent and when he sees the excitement generated by the Obama campaign, he can only think of it as one thing: A cult.
His alarmist blog post is actually called: "And Obama Wept":
Inspiration is nice. But some folks seem to be getting out of hand.
It's as if Tom Daschle descended from on high saying, "Be not afraid; for behold I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to all the people: for there is born to you this day in the city of Chicago a Savior, who is Barack the Lord."...read on
Tapper has a hilarious update to his post:
Let me be clear: I'm not saying there shouldn't be enthusiasm in politics. I'm merely touching on the fact that some Obama supporters' exuberance seems to be getting a little out of hand.
In essence he's telling you that exuberance for Obama is bad, Mmkay? If the CPACers were as excited for McCain---then exuberance would be good, Mmkay? No matter who you support for president, we can't let this stand. I will focus on the media coverage for both Hillary and Obama until the Dems have a nominee and as a friendly reminder----The Villagers love, just love John McCain.
Let's not forget the cult-like exuberance the GOP has had for President Bush these last 7 years. Now, when it's not their guy it's bad to be excited.
Mmkay Mr. Mackey.
Nice try, dickwad. But, it won't work. The GOP ain't gonna win. The Dems could run a sofa and win.
Thank you John.
They want Obama to be the nominee and will crush him.
All the corporate media, including rush and rest of talk radio will unite with McInsane and attack Obama daily.
Can he deal with it like the Clintons have for all these years?
Roll the dice and find out.
Are we having technical problems again? It took a few tries to get the C/L to open and then a couple more tries to get the comments to open.
The corporate media will do what ever it takes to get more eyeballs. The front runner must be attacked and the underdog must be lifted up. It doesn't make any difference who is who.
In all fairness, even some Obama supporters are freaked out by the "irational exuberance" as it were. I think most objective and fair-minded people would agree that the die-hard Obama supporters are more reminiscent of a personality cult than a political campaign.
Maybe not *more* reminiscent but there's some smoke...
Well, he is right actually in some ways.
Look at the way Obamanites react to anything slightly against him on this site.
Reminds you of an atheist posting on a freeper board.
Things we need to worry about with a political-presidential struggle between McCain and Hillary (and or) Obama.
►False Flag terror attack.
►Extreme Republican Slime machinery. (swift-boating).
►Moves within the present administration (outlandish bills) to make us take our eye off the ball.
Don't count the Democratic eggs until they hatch. We are dealing with the most derisive, divisive, secretive, diabolical administration ever.
One could argue that if only a single person calmly voted for Bush, that would constitute a "cult"
[deleted - flamebaiting.]
The media is becoming irrelevant. And thank goddess
I gave this to a friend of mine that is a Hillary supporter that always says the same thing, but it's total bullshit. We love Obama because we want change. We want to talk to our enemies. We don't want the mindset that got us into Iraq. We don't want more of the same. Hillary should just give this up and let the party unite behind Obama.
The next few weeks will be big wins for Obama. We need to push Hillary to give it up and put her energy into the Senate.
I think this goes back to the press wanting to seem 'with it' and thus are willing to wink and nod at scumbags, but always get their panties in a bunch about someone who seems like a genuine idealist.
God forbid that people should abandon the politics of greed, cynicism, and fearmongering that has served America in such good stead over the past eight years, and embrace a candidate whose words and policies are something that they feel they can believe in.
getalife @ 4:
ya, clintons really dealt with it well....lost both houses after 2 years and bill got impeached
im curious, when these guys see the films of the crowds that surrounded bobby kennedy...what do they say to that?
and geez, aint nothing worse than the cult of reagan
Jeez, people who have been mad, disgusted and just plain sick of war and such for almost eight years, have a reason to be hopeful again. I guess there should be some law against things like that, huh? The very nerve of people to be exuberant over a candidate they like. I'm telling you, what next? Next thing you know they will be donating money to that candidate's campaign and putting yard signs with the candidates name on them right in front of their houses. Yep, I see all the fingerprints here of a cult formation. Better nip it in the bud, as Barney Fife would say.
Testing
If you think Obama will get crushed you obviously haven't been paying attention. Obama is generating a lot of buzz with republicans. Republicans will vote for Obama. There are some dems who will not vote for Hillary (one being me).
I believe Hillary is evil and after 8 years of evil in the whitehouse, we need something different.
The whole thing is just bad for The Party and the Republic Some of the supporters are so emotionally invested that I could easily see them not voting for Clinton come November if she is the nominee.
This is only a test. Had it been the real thing you would be instructed to bend over and kiss you hind section good-bye.
Are Obama people coming to kidnap me and take me somewhere where I can't see my friends and family for a long time? Will he force me to believe his religion above all else?
No? Okay whew, I'm not in a cult. Plus, I hate cool aid.
Holy shit. You guys should read the comments section of that blog post. Those people are fucking crazy. Here is a choice one:
You Obama supporters just wont wake up until you destroy the USA, just like the German people did after being brainwashed by the Nazis. Obama is a Cult of Personality, Plain and Simple. Your weak minds are too close to the fire to see that you are being burned.
Posted by: dlbizzz | Feb 7, 2008 4:16:24 PM
Comments are on the fritz a bit, eh?
Anyway, I agree Obama-mania is odd, but I'm not the type to go gaa gaa over an authority figure. I want more answers from him on how he'll get things done, and more balls in terms of prosecuting the Bush administration's vast list of crimes. Are we a country that says every time we get a conservative president they can damn near ruin us? I guess so, with the democrats just wanting power and not wanting to make sure justice is served.
I'm an Obama supporter who will definitely vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination. Anyone who refuses to will be doing the country a big disfavor. To say I won't vote because my candidate didn't win the nomination is being childish and selfish. I hope we don't have people like that today in our country.
pissed off patricia @ 25:
Let me be 100% clear on this. It is because the other choice is Hillary. If the other option was Edwards I would vote for him in a heartbeat. No more Clintons. No more Bushes.
Now the "quote this comment" button isn't working.
All this says is that the gop is evil and needs therapy.
Alright! Bring on the crazy. This will be the test to see if Obama's campaign can handle the nut-o-sphere.
I'll stick by the old saying, if you don't vote, you can't complain about the outcome. I'll take Hillary any day rather than John McCain.
I really like Obama,
but I'm mostly anti Hillary
being in a solid blue state I'll never have to vote for her..
redjb @ 31:
I'm mostly anti Repug.
In the spirit of bipartisanship...I am expressing my exuberance for Laura Ingraham's buttocks.
But my exuberance is muted...I don't want to be perceived as being part of a cult.
Buttocks to be beat, huh?
Bangkok Bob @ 9:
Don't forget a pile of racism and or sexism...united we stand!
John, I hate to disagree with you, but I have spent a lot of time debating with Obama fans, and more than a few of them are exhibiting seriously cult-like behavior.
100% of criticism of him must and will be explained away.
The commitment to Obama's infallibility on some of their parts is so extreme that on two separate occasions, I've heard Obamaites say not only is there not a cult around Obama, there never was such a thing as a cult. Better to deny the existence of cults like Jonestown than risk being compared to them, hyperbolically or not.
And in response to a post suggesting that Obama would be a better candidate if his supporters were willing to criticize him when his actions or statements are less-than-ideal, responses included:
Cultish? Yeah, in some ways, among some folks, I'd say "yes."
"...and the Lord Reagan ascended into heaven upon a white steed.
But be of good cheer, for he will come again in the guise of a faux-conservative tough guy to judge the living and increase the numbers of the dead..."
Now THAT'S a cult.
I do NOT want Barak Obama to win the Democratic nomination. Right now the race hate is subtle and in codes (He's too inexperienced, sounds like a preacher, attends an all black church, therefore he's racist too). But if he is the nominee, the tsunami of pure racism will truly break this country socially. It'll make what Jackie Robinson went through look like a UN picnic. Anyone who denies this is either a liar or stupid. I feel sad for the many honest and good people out there who don't think race will be a major factor. Trust me, we black folk are waiting for the shit to start.
wtf? - Did anyone catch Hillary just now on MSNBC? She's standing in front of a auditorium full of school children talking about the John McCain, the economy, and war and the children are being instructed to cheer on cue--out of cadence with what she's saying.
Stinks of desperation.
A divided Democratic Party = A Republican President. Keep trashing Hillary and she will go away along with her supporters votes.
What is it with ABC? First they give us Halperin, now Jake Tapper has managed to pull off a deliberate misquote of Bill Clinton on global warming in addition to attacking Obama all within the past week and a half. Tapper looks and 'reports' like the male version of Nora O'Donnel (sp?).
ysbaddaden @ 35:
She's a Republican...they're into discipline.
I recently asked an Obama campaign volunteer what's the difference between "Hope. Change we can believe in." and "Change. Hope we can believe in."
I would hope that someone who grasped a deep message could explain how randomly changing the position of abstract nouns in a slogan affects its meaning. I was just told that I didn't understand what's going on in the country as the person hurried away.
I voted for Clinton, which if you had told me a year ago that that's what I'd do, I would have thought you insane. And I will enthusiastically vote AGAINST the Republican nominee in November no matter what.
I've been commenting on various blogs for quite a while now, but it wasn't until I dared to say negative things about St. Barack that people responded with nasty, vicious personal attacks.
Criticize Hillary and people will disagree, but criticize Obama and they will call you names and insult you.
Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 3:
Run a sofa? Hmm.
Will the Greens then put on a spin dryer to bowl against the Dems' green Chesterfield?
IdahoMoe @ 36:
Can I have that racism and sexism with a side of xenophobia to go please.
Oh...and a double Gitmo too.
pissed off patricia @ 25:
Thanks Pat, we think alike.....
I wholeheartedly support both Dem candidates, they are way better than any Repub candidates.
With Clinton, her legacy with Clinton (The President) is the downfall. Her stance in Iraq is troublesome. Her pragmatism, and compromising diplomatic attitude towards foreign neighbors and affairs is her winning key.
With Obama, the Hope is contagious, he is very audacious, brash, blunt and frank in foreign and domestic policy. However, I do see another President that also started with a lot of hope, and brashness, and now takes us too far Right in the direction (i.e. Bush). I hate to think Obama will not be like Bush, but I fear that it may just be, just in another opposite direction.
All I wanted is a candidate who will takes us into the dead center, right in the middle, not swing it too far Right or Left.
Who could that combo be? I just wish that Clinton and Obama got together on the same platform, not bicker and join hands together to bring this country back to the center, where we have always been, a Progressive American, not conservative, or liberal, just progressive, technologically and socially inspiring nation to the rest of this world.
Jake Tapper (left) is an ambitious Philly-area kid who parleyed a date with Monica Lewinsky into early admission into the Gang — now he’s ABC’s chief political correspondent and when he sees the excitement generated by the Obama campaign, he can only think of it as one thing: A cult.
So these retards hate. We all know that.
I'm in the Obama cult and damn proud. I'm an informed cultist who has studied him closely for a year. Saw him here a year ago. I'm an Obama cult member who sees right through Hillary's tears and Bills jeers. I'm a cult member whose sick of deeply entrenched political special interests and lobby efforts. I'm a cult member who liked Hillary up until the day she voted for the war. I remember that day. The day Hillary sold us to China by trusting George Bush. The way she trusted Bill? At the very least she's a bad judge of character. she will not excite or assure the future of the Dems the way he would. People will disengage as soon as superdelegates override the will of the people. And the war will go on. She will lose to McCain. I hope you leftie blogger experts know what you're doing when you try to suppress pure inspiration and hope and back a power machine who has you falsely convinced that hers are good hands to put our country in. They are not. She took us to war. She is incompetent.
I agree and part of it is our fault, we have not allowed Obama to be tested, he is the most protected candidate that has ever run. The Republicans will not protect him this way... They'll go after him like a bunch of buzzards after road kill....
myiq2xu @ 46:
You hang out with Cole too much to have noticed the Paulist intrusions around the beginning of the New Year. A lot of them got banned.
I don't know if BJ auto-moderates out comments that mention Paul, or if that site just flies under the radar of those people, but it's refreshing to go over there just to get the taste of the so-called constitutionalists out of my mouth.
Who is Jake Tapper?
I do think this Obamamania is freaky.
I don't get it.
One thing for sure, if he starts handing out Kool-Aid at any of his rallies, I would advise not to drink it.
Definitely cultish and driving me away from this site.
Why, if you're not for him, you must be a racist.
Where does he stand on reproductive rights, gay rights, a draft, deserters in Canada, decriminalization of drug laws, immigration, Iran? Why, we don't know, do we.
But you all see in him what you want. I now think he'll win, based on the huge amounts of republican money going to his campaign.
I'm a socialist, so I don't--and probably never will--have a candidate.
Boy, on top of his mispresentation of Clinton, Tapper's got one heck of a track record right now, huh?
RSchewe @ 55:
He writes ABC's political blog.
souljaEXVOTO @ 52:
Y'know, there might not be these accusations of cultism if Obama supporters didn't feel the need to relentlessly demonize the Clintons. Obama is a good candidate on his own merits. You don't need to tear down other people to build him up.
Eh.
If the right wing's biggest blowhards can't derail McCain's candidacy, I think Obama can survive some baseless speculation from a no-name hack.
How could you not be positively giddy about Obama after 8 years of monkey boy.
KyleXY @ 56:
Naaah...it'll be wine coolers. Those liberal elites!!!
While you all are playing horse-race games, the Senate passed a "compromise" stimulus package with almost none of the Democratic suggestion, just the obvious fixes. In other words, the White House got it's way again, since Reid caved again.
Now the Senate is getting ready to cave on FISA/PAA.
Or, more accurately, back to silly horse-race crap.
Look, just because Kristol, Brooks, Sullivan, and Broder were all very early Obama endorsers doesn't automatically mean they're playing the usual game of asking "What must Democrats do to win?" -- to which the answer is always "Be more like the Republicans!"
After all, this time Kristol, Brooks, Sullivan, and Broder could be playing a straight game. Right?
(And weasels might fly out of my butt.)
Mr. Anon @ 20:
EVIL? Name one thing she has done that is EVIL.
Or, as John Lennon would say, "breathing space":
US political establishment lines up behind Barack Obama
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/obam-f04.shtml
...
In total contributions, both Clinton and Obama collected more than $100 million apiece in 2007, more than twice the largest amount raised by any Republican, while Obama raised an additional $32.6 million in January 2008 alone.
...
Important sections of the ruling elite have concluded that, particularly for the overseas interests of American imperialism, a President Obama would provided important advantages. He would at one stroke put a "new face" on American foreign policy, and make it more likely that Washington could overcome the international isolation and global hostility created by the arrogant unilateralism of the Bush White House and its failed intervention in Iraq. And it may well require a Democrat in the White House to reinstate the draft and provide the manpower required to sustain and expand the US drive for military domination of the oil-rich Middle East and Central Asia.
pissed off patricia @ 25:
POP: A reasonable position by an intelligent Dem. Thanks...needed to be said and you
did good.
JTM @ 64:
And you were expecting otherwise...why?
Andy K @ 59:
Second question, why should I give a damn what he thinks? Talking heads are making me crazy. I honestly don't care about any of their opinions. I can do my own thinking, thank you. He says Obama supporters are a cult and I'm supposed to believe him? Why?
Lots of blanket statements being said on this thread. Not all supporters of Hillary or Obama are alike. We are individuals who come to our own conclusions. That's why they say trying to get all democrats to do something is like herding cats. We cats are against being herded. If we liked it, we would be republicans.
DemocratLoyalist @ 8:
I've heard this repeatedly but am yet to see it on any site. What I do see is the Hillary supporters attacking like rabid wolverines on any and all sites, then pointing the finger back at the Obama crowd. I know what it is really about. Fear. Older people are afraid because Obama is pulling in record numbers of younger people, and that just won't do. Just like the Republicans, the Democratic Party establishment wants it to really boil down to older people voting and making the choices. Who votes for Hillary? Old rich white males and a majority of older wealthier women. Key similarity? OLDER. Obama has the youth because they maybe feel it time to actually change something. Maybe he isn't the right person for the job, but you definitely have to give him credit so far for bringing the youth to the Dem Party.
JTM @ 64:
That's because the bill originally introduced to the Senate couldn't get cloture. It went down 58-41, with McCain abstaining. 59-41, actually, but Reid cast the "no" vote for parliamentary reasons(so he could reintroduce it).
But the bill the Senate passed was the one that was passed overwhelmingly in the House.
Andy K @ 59:
It was a rhetorical question.
Who gives a flying f*** what he thinks? (another rhetorical question)
JTM @ 64:
I know you will find this perhaps difficult to believe but I am paying attention to those votes and commenting here at the same time. Pretty amazing, huh?
You want a generation gap, you can have it.
From article:
Obama's mantra of bringing everyone together may appeal to the naïve illusions of youth who are making their first political experiences, but Obama and the Wall Street bankers and media moguls who are promoting him know exactly what they are doing. Theirs is a conscious policy of blurring social and political differences and denying class divisions in a society more deeply divided along economic lines than ever before in its history.
Rusty Shackleford @ 60:
I'm not anti-Obama, I just prefer Hillary. As a matter of fact, she was my 5th choice because my first chioice didn't run and the next 3 dropped out.
I don't think any candidate is perfect, but pointing out perceived flaws and areas of disagreement is not the same as opposing a candidate.
I don't think there is a lot of difference between Hillary and Obama, I just prefer her. But if Obama wins I will support him.
RSchewe @ 73:
JAKE TAPPER sounds like a gay porn star. lol
Doggiebobo @ 68:
Thanks! Just speaking from my heart and saying what I believe.
pissed off patricia @ 25:
I see where you're coming from PoP, and i agree that not voting for the nominee because your candidate didn't get it is about the most immature thing a voter can do.
I, however, made a promise to myself that i would never vote for a politician who voted in favor of invading Iraq. (I would consider a candidate who admitted that it was a terrible mistake, but that'd take some thinking before i pulled the proverbial lever.)
But for a person like me, that counts McCain out too (not that i'd be likely to vote for a Republican anyhow). In the case of a Clinton nomination, i'll vote for a third party. In my mind, voting for a candidate who voted for the war is the same thing as voting for the war.
thanks for the help john. That site is being over run by either gop or clinton propogandists besmearching obama's good name. We need all the help we cna get to drown out the fascist pig propogandists. Thanks john.
A cult? Son of a bitch.
This army infantry soldier is waging verbal war on these dittoheads on this one
ConcernedCanuck @ 71:
You do realize that Hillary won the youth vote in California? Florida and Massachusetts too.
jackpine savage @ 79:
Karl Rove thanks you.
Andy K @ 72:
My definition of "cave" includes the situation where you have a majority but allow the minority to get its way because you don't have 60.
The Republicans didn't have 60 for the first six years, but got their way every time because they just waited the Democrats out.
The Democrats now have a majority, but the Republicans still get their way because Reid won't wait them out. When they play chicken, Reid flinches immediately. And each time he does this, the Republicans are emboldened even more.
And he's about to Cave on FISA/PAA, too. McConnell was smug as all heck when they talked about it (before going back to "morning business"). In other words, probably none of Feinstein's amendments are in the "compromise" of this issue.
Meanwhile, Mukasey today said that an opinion from the OLC can make anything legal, including torture.
But don't let me distract you.
pissed off patricia @ 70:
You and I, p.o.p., and most of the rest of us know what's going on. The problem is that if someone who isn't so informed goes to ABC's site after watching the evening news, and they don't know that Jake Tapper is an asshole, there's a good chance they'll trust what he says- he writes for ABC, after all.
So when you run into someone at the office, or the grocery store, wherever, and they're using Tapper's talking point, you have the ammo to shoot their argument full of holes.
Liberal AND Proud @ 63:
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
And brie bites with a little extra something something! O~
Can ANYONE tell me if Obama is pro-choice? With proof.
jackpine savage @ 79:
Your last sentence got my eye. I understand your anger at anyone who voted for this war. But the only candidates who talk about ending it are the democrats. So are you willing to let your anger stop you from voting for someone who just might be able to finally end this horror?
IdahoMoe @ 66:
How about 2?
Her vote on the AUMF.
Her vote on Kyl/Liebermann.
Sloegin @ 88:
oh ok
JTM @ 83:
The difference between Reid and Frist is that Frist was willing to use the "nuclear option", which would have been- and still is- a shitty precedent to set.
listen, when the "Billary" stuff was full force I was angry enough to state that it would be wrong to vote for Hillary even if she won out of principle. I was one of those people, and at the time I truly meant it. It seemed like scorched earth policy to me that was willing to ruin Barack's entire future so she would win.
I'm over that. Face it, after Super Tuesday I think both candidates did well enough to keep their career afloat so long as they DO NOT GO THAT NASTY AGAIN. The Democrats walked out of Tuesday with two strong candidates instead of a true 'war' in my eyes.
Facts are facts: McCain unlike Bush and people before him, WILL use the judges to finally swing Roe vs Wade, and WILL NOT end the war. Do I believe Hillary would really end the war and is just saying whatever to get elected? To some degree, yes, I really really do. However thats possibility vs a sure bet. I implore Obama fans to fight their hardest for him because I genuinely beleive not only he's the best choice but has the best chance of winning this important vote. I'm not asking you campaign for Hillary or say nice things you don't believe to get her elected, but for strategic purposes VOTE...
even if its not for her, you would be voting to protect womens rights and the current and future military. This is more important than a grudge, regardless of how valid it is or is not.
Another difference is that Frist threatened such things, but Reid never does. He just gets upset and whiney.
Goon @ 91:
Goon, I don't know if you are male of female, but I do know that you are one hell of a good person.
myiq2xu @ 81:
Yes, but I meant overall, and the overall trend is older people vote for Hillary and younger people vote for Obama. Been that way since the start.
Well, I like Obama, but would vote for Hillary (look at the alternative) BUUUUT, I know several die-hard Republicans who LIKE Obama, and would vote for him, they are swept up by his words, like to hear him speak, and like what they hear. I think if he was to go on some sort of Lincoln-esque whistlestop tour, there would be more than a few converts.
What the Republicans are counting on is that all Republicans are ideologues. That is not true. They are confusing people by all this talk about "true conservatism" vs. "neoconservatism", and regular "conservatism". I mean WTF is that? They got everything they wanted for the last eight years, and people are spent, dried up, sick of the negative Bullshit they want to shove down each and every one of our throats.
Yeah, we get it, terrorism abounds, but who the hell wants to live the rest of our lives in a mental trench while they sifon off our kids futures?
by the way, call me a nut all you want, but other than those two key issues - I don't think of McCain as the devil. I genuinely do believe overall he's a good man with more than several bad views. I genuinely believe for the most part he's a sincere person of decent character who loves his country, and should be taken as seriously as a heart attack. Unlike Bush whose rise and nepotism spits in the face of the American Dream, McCain can tap into people simply on the strength of his character and can convince people to vote against their self interest. I don't think Hillary has it in her to win the independents that McCain can, regardless of how many people in his own party are not excited about him.
Hey, how about ole' guvnah Huckleberry as an object of evangelical cult worship. I'll start the rumor........... er,...... uh,............state the facts about him right now.
1. He cured a ham. Razorback's r' good eatin'.
2. He made a lame man blind with Arkansas moonshine.
3. He walked underwater in a Days Inn swimmin' pool.
4. He turned water into grape Kool-ade.
5. He was born next door to a virgin.
6. When he was born, his family had to hurriedly leave their trailer and beat a path from Palestine, Texas. And his momma rode his daddy's ass all the way out and all the way back.
7. He forgives murderers, and gives them early release form prison.
8. His son didst slay the devil dog in his father's name.
9. He believes that good rethuglickins do unto others.
10. He gives praise to the Romney who got the hell out of his way.
Goon @ 96:
Anybody that can survive US politics for their entire life, is just not above shady. That goes for any party. Maybe that explains the Clinton hatred. Regardless of the accusations, there is no way they are "clean" after spending a lifetime in politics. That is impossible.
IdahoMoe @ 66:
She hates the first ammendment, as evidenced by trying to censor video games.
Sends out her husband to attack her political rivals, then complains when she gets called on it.
Trying to seat the Michigan and Florida Delegates. Essentially doing whatever it takes to win.
She wants to REQUIRE everyone to have health insurance. This is a tax that is paid to insurance companies, not the government. Unlike car insurance you can choose whether you want/can afford a car or not. You cannot choose to not have a body.
pissed off patricia @ 93:
let me put it bluntly.
at one time would voting against Hillary in the general have felt REALLY good and deserved? Yes. I was watching "Election" last night and the scene where Broderick is moved to rig the election at the last section because he was moved in anger, and I think many sympathize with his desire to ruin her. It's natural. I think there were very good reasons to be very upset with Hillary and Bill.
HOWEVER
the short term schaudenfraude of watching Hillary in my opinion, get egg on her face for her style of politics, is NOTHING compared to the extended deep hurt and shame of letting Roe vs Wade get overturned.
Anyone who would vote against her out of spite I think one day would regret it. I say to them, I sympathize with your anger, I feel it to sometimes, and may feel it again if the superdelegates swing it to her at the last second. We're not done yet.
But seriously,
SERIOUSLY
whoever the Dem nominee is MUST be supported. MUST.
cheesesauce @ 97:
Didn't he bbq squirrels????
ConcernedCanuck Says:@ 101
We went nuts, is all I know.
I meant "HE" not we. aaaarrrrrrggghhgh! Whom shall I blame?
Look, this goes beyond parties. Yes, the kind of blind pseudo-messianism that got Bush reelected is unhealthy and dangerous. But the same thing is happening, to a degree, with Obama.
Which isn't to say that ALL Obama supporters are operating under that mindset. I'm sure every candidate has some of that crowd. But this cycle it's focused around Obama.
ConcernedCanuck @ 98:
I agree. but "clean" and true strength of character is somewhat relative to their situation. By the standards of people who have been around that long in Washington, I think McCain is at least by perception alone, the cleaner candidate, and between him and Hillary, she will be seen as the dirty politicker... and that perception may turn out to be reality.
ConcernedCanuck @ 101:
He said in college he and his roommates killed squirrels and fried them in a popcorn popper. Then they ate them.
Tom Piltoff @ 104:
This goes back to perception. Hillary supporters are bound to see this sort of thing if they find places that cant seem to say a good thing about her.
But I can point to a site like talkleft.com that to my point of view, feels like a Hillary cult. Krugman's columns to me read worse than Matthews statements.
we are on a site that reports bullshit spoken about our own candidates but lets face it, find glee when Cafferty will take a moment to bash an opponent. I certainly would say that we on the left get a less fair shake than the right usually does, that someone like Michael Moore and places like moveon are considered far more left than Coulter is considered far right. I'm just saying this 'cult' talk is pure spin, an outsider who doesnt get Barack looking in to a group of people who are genuinely excited. You're allowed to not understand, but I object to the 'cult' status.
pissed off patricia @ 106:
Just certain parts of male squirrels? Or any sex of squirrel? ;-)
hadenuf
Pro-choice. Specifically I know he voted against criminzlizing transporting of minors across state lines for abortions.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546298,00.html
If Obama can stand up to McCain, why can't he stand up to Hillary and debate?
Um, it's "glad tidings" not "good tidings" - these people only think they know...
left&left @ 39
Just because Obama attends an all-black church doesn't make him a racist. How many Christians among the Democratic ranks attend all-white or all-asian churches? Unfortunately, Sunday worship hour is one of the most segregated times but most of that is due to cultural upbringing. Some like the joyful praising and singing common to many black churches. Some like the more stoic "high" church commonly found in white churches. It's the nature of the service in many cases and not the skin of those doing the worshipping. I go to a mixed church with mixed styles.
Bystander @ 110:
he can. he might.
he doesnt have to. whether or not he should? I think frankly one on one he looked the most presidential, so yes, he should.
BUT
I think he's smart to make her sweat a little bit about it, and I don't have any problem with he telling Fox to get bent. Most people on this site supported overall telling Fox to get lost, so if you're going to accept the spin that if someone avoids someone that they're just 'scared', are you going to accept that people are just 'scared' of O'Reilly when he says it next? Are you picking and choosing who gets to be scared of whom?
10seLEFTY @ 112:
Obama is Half White...does he have to stand in the doorway?;-)
Dan M @ 6:
Mr. Not Voting strikes again! linky
Joined, this time, by Mrs. Cry Me a Delegate.
10seLEFTY @ 112:
My stoic "high" church doesn't say anything about "A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA". This is a direct quote from the web-site of Obama's church....
Jake Tapper, he's the hack that claimed Bill Clinton wanted to stop economic growth, right?
Hack.
-GSD
These posts follow what I've come to refer to as the 'insider bashing' framework.
1) Impress upon the reader a fact about the author immediately, so as to establish yourself as an expert and "one of the fold" (I'm an atheist, just like the rest of you godless heathens)
2) Proceed to manufacture facts about a topic, based on your situational justapositioning as a liberal and a member of the human race.
3) Make sure that while you're presenting your opinions as truth, you absolutely refute the possibility that your truth might actually be an opinion.
Slippery fuckers, these kind.
Doggiebobo @ 68:
Here here! I'll second that. Well said.
Bystander @ 117:
Link please.....
What is truly wild is the Republicans and Clintonites are working towards the same (primary) end. The pathos here is they are both severely deluded.
IdahoMoe @ 121:
www.tucc.org/about.htm
JTM @ 116:
Were they present? Why didnt they vote? Not COOL
Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 3:
they tried that in 2004 and it didnt work...
well, how odd is it that the media is acting like supporting obama makes you a cultist or a whackjob...
now...readers of crooks and liars would NEVER act like supporting a particular candidates particular views would constitute a cult, would they? i mean...we're ABOVE those thing!
so...how IS ron paul doing, anyway?
Bystander @ 123:
Thanks....hmmmmm
IdahoMoe @ 124:
They didn't vote because they weren't there.
Nor are they there now, when amendments to FISA/PAA are being voted on.
On the former issue, it doesn't really matter, since Reid already sold out and the votes were slam-dunks. But on the latter issue, which involves trying to slow down the security state, it would have been a nice touch.
Or maybe they're counting on being preznit and like the idea of having the power of wiretapping anything they wish. I don't know.
IdahoMoe @ 124:
They both voted for cloture on the bill in its original incarnation. McCain passed on that one.
The only resemblance to "cult" would be along the lines of very exuberant followers. Who, truth be known - and I'm one at times - are more taken with the persona of Barack than any set of specific ideas or issues. Can of like taking someone "on faith". Or, if you wish, the "Promised Land" metaphor is not all that misplaced.And like a "cult", run the risk of being to some degree disappointed at some point in time, and
taking it almost personally. But other than that, "cult" is obviously a charged word, and whoever uses it most known that. But it's important to realize that part of Obama's attraction is the potential that he represents and that he is a much more attractive than anything offered by the Republicans.
It is my opinion that any poster who brings up anything about Obama's "religion" or "ethnic identity" which is nothing more than smears from the Right, should just be overlooked and not even responded to. And I'd say the same about certain things concerning Hilary, too.
Voting on cloture when the Democrats couldn't filibuster a flea doesn't count a whole lot to me. And, as I wrote above, it doesn't matter much on the stimulus package, since Reid already blew it. But blowing off FISA/PAA is flat-out not doing your job.
Or maybe you all don't care if the gov't can keep all data they collect ILLEGALLY. That was the first vote they missed tonight.
And maybe you don't care if the gov't can use reverse targeting to tap Americans WITHOUT ANY WARRANT AT ALL, legally, from now on. That was the second vote they blew off.
It seems the Obama Girl (remember her?) just never made it out to vote in the primary. That is a problem if you count too much on the young vote. A lot of this enthusiasm is coming from the young right now but will that continue into Nov.?
IdahoMoe @ 121:
And the Jews have a commitment to Israel. And the Catholics have a commitment to the Vatican. And the Muslims have a commitment to Mecca. So what?
Commitment to a continent facing innumerable crises and the homeland for the vast majority of a American minority doesn't equal racism.
10seLEFTY @ 134:
And George Bush has a commitment to Iraq
wisedup @ 49:
Excuse me, but i'm a liberal not a democratic sheep (yes there is a difference). And to suggest that anyone who will vote for the corporate candidate (Hillary) will be doing a disservice to this country is laughable. If its Clinton V.s. McCain, what's the difference? Both voted for the war, both voted for lieberman/kyl, and lets not forget how well she did last time she tried to give us universal health care.
All I can say is that if Hillary wins, i'm going Nader 08!
Don @ 129:
I have absolutely no problem with faith in other people. I only have problem with blind faith. BOTH Hillary and Obama's campaigns will have some of each. Personally, I'd rather have faith in a candidate than to the party or to winning. Both the party and winning are important, but those I believe are more likely to lead to blind faith, standing up for positions and spins we may not agree with. If only people could be honest with themselves we wouldnt hear stuff about Obama being a Muslim, Kerry being a traitor, the Clintons murdering Vince Foster, or well... McCain being a liberal, which as we all know is much worse than all those other things LOL.
Regardless, "cult" is just plain WRONG use of speech because in that one word it undermines what Obama and his supporters have built. If you can look at how Obama's campaign has grown and scoff that its just a 'cult' and not take it seriously, then you deserve to lose. We on the left often do not properly recognize what get Republicans elected. Not everyone is stupid, not everyone is selfish, not everyone is simply tricked by Karl Rove - if we can't stand up and examine what made Reagan win, what made Bush win (and I mean that in the votes he really did get and not the Diebold, butterfly ballot stuff), we deserve to lose. Period. We have to earnestly investigate how they connect to people without the cynical anger tainting the facts.
Drewski @ 136:
in 2000 I parroted that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. I pointed to the Rage Against the Machine "Testify" video, pointed at Moore's "Gush and Bore" talk...
it was wrong. There is a difference between Hillary and McCain. Even if you're cynical about Hillary and Iraq as I am, Seriously - supreme court appointments. You owe it to the women of this country to protect their rights. I don't think that counts at blind party loyalty, that is simply voting with your brain.
Goon @ 107:
Thank you for allowing me to not understand :|
The cult talk is not just spin. I mean, obviously the suggestion that an actual religion is being founded around Barack Obama is absurd. But don't tell me it's a matter of perception that all candidates, he especially, are playing on peoples emotions.
Tom Piltoff @ 139:
Hillary plays on peoples nostalgia for the 90s, Barack plays on peoples emotion for hope, Edwards appeals on populist little man emotion.
If Obama's camp is a cult, then Hillary's camp is an Establishment 90s Skull and Bones old Boys Club cult. Putting both of these in such terms dramatically undermines what they have to offer.
Period.
Huckabee came out the other day and thanked his supporters.
Behind him were cheering teenagers.
Young people are the props for this year's candidates.
Lionel @ 141:
Are you simply stating this as fact, or do you mean it in a demeaning cynical way? I only ask because I don't know why you'd otherwise point out the obvious.
souljaEXVOTO @ 52:
OBAMA ENDORSER ALSO AUTHORIZED THE WAR! WHY IS IT ALRIGHT FOR HIS ENDORSERS BUT NOT HIS OPPONENT? HOW IS THAT HAVING INTEGRITY!
IT IS MY INTEGRITY THAT WILL KEEP ME DEFENDING HILLARY AND BILL CLINTON! I HAVE A BACKBONE! I DON'T FLIP AT THE TURN OF A DIME! I HAVE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THEM AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS AND OBAMA DO NOTHING BUT ATTACK AND POLARIZE THEM!
First of, all caps make you look like you are yelling. But to your point, "OBAMA ENDORSER ALSO AUTHORIZED THE WAR! WHY IS IT ALRIGHT FOR HIS ENDORSERS BUT NOT HIS OPPONENT? HOW IS THAT HAVING INTEGRITY!"
But there is a huge flaw in your logic. The wrong vote doesn't make you evil or a bad person, but it shows a lack of decision making and leadership. It takes leadership to oppose things when they aren't popular. And it takes leadership to bring people into the fold who don't always agree with you. Hillary supporters seem to be okay ruling with a 51% majority. They seem to think its her turn. Its not.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/2/7/17649/11923
Why does TalkLeft turn a positive Hillary story into a negative Obama story? What the hell is up with that site? Jeralyn has become the HRC supporting equiv of Andrew Sullivan.
That's right, Jack. It's all a big cult, if we actually like the person we vote for. I'd much rather hold my nose to vote, the way I've had to so many times since I started voting.
You news types really have too much time on your hands. But here's an idea:
instead of sitting back sneering at the voters, why not go out and do a little investigative reporting on something like the waterboarding coverup, or Halliburton's no-bid contracts and how that all came to be. There are a lot of us who wonder why you guys never saw fit to get that information for your readers and viewers.
You remember investigative reporting, don't you? Wasn't there a class on it in J School?
John, with all due respect - the people who are pushing the Obama-Cult angle are Clinton supporters. I have heard it come out of their mouths for 3 months. The fact that is just reaching the media, shows their incompetence, not their influence.
It looks like the MSM is already looking ahead. They know that the turnouts for the Democrats have been huge, and the turnout for the Republicans have not been. On top of that it is obvious that McCain will be the Republican candidate. It is also clear that Republicans aren't all that excited about McCain. And then you look at how great of a speaker Obama is compared to McCain. So there is going to be a two candidates, one with excitement that has voters paricitpating in politics like never before and some old washaed up guy that isn't even well liked by his party.
The MSM needs to start balancing out McCain and Obama to make this election seem like it is going to be a competition. The only way to do this is to demonize the Obama supporters. Start disengaging these people or people that may think about voting for him. To attack Obama would only energize Obama's supporters more, like they are energized when Clinton attacks Obama. Clinton obviously can't attack the Obama movement, because she is trying to get these supports to move to her side.
I think we should look at how this attack is going to play out. This must be some sort of trial balloon, and we shall definately see more of it. What we should remember, that when people see what Obama has and understand him, they are doing something that no politition has been able to do for over a generation. It is not that the Obama supporters are wacko, it is that no one has been able to engage them, no one has made them feel that they must be a part of the political process or politics fails.
JTM @ 131:
Read the link, JTM. The cloture was to overcome a Republican fillibuster on the original language (including extending unemployment benefits). Obama voted the right way on that. McCain essentially voted against it.
Today, the watered down version passed by 30 votes.
But if your intent was to rehash tired GOP talking points, by all means, continue.
The Republicans are a load of shit. By January 24, 2001, they wanted to put Bush on Mt. Rushmore. By April, they wanted to blast the other faces off Rushmore and replace it with a single bust of Bush. They also talked about replacing the Statue of Liberty with a statue of Bush ( appropriately, I hope, in drag). Others were proclaiming that Bush was the Second Coming. The last, of course, put a lie to their claims of Christianity and revealed their true religion, Sata...
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