Not So Super Tuesday Election Thread
By Jamie Monday Feb 11, 2008 9:00pmHere is today's election tracker to keep up on the 146 delegates up for grabs today.
[election 79]
Update: John Amato: Obama wins Virginia and Huckabee is leading McCain very early in the count...Go Huck Go!
Chris Matthews is infatuated with Virginia accents. My God, he actually asked Gov. Kaine (D) to demonstrate the different dialects on MSNBC. He's the Governor---not Rich Little.
Go Donna Edwards! The polls in MD are staying open for an extra 90 minutes due to terrible weather conditions.
Donna leads in early returns: Open Left has the results...
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Gobama, projected winner in Virginia!
frist!
ABC news already projected Obama won VA...yet the Billary Spin will continue at all costs.
Meanwhile . . . . . . 40 minutes ago
CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuela's state oil company said Tuesday that it has stopped selling crude to Exxon Mobil Corp. and has suspended commercial relations with the U.S.-based oil company.
Greg @ 1:
Already? Sweet.
L.A. Confidential @ 4:
Wow, I heard him threatening to stop selling oil to the U.S. this morning. I didn't think he'd really do it, though. He called Bush 'Mr. Danger' which I thought was pretty funny. Sad and scary, but funny.
I was a Hillary supporter, and still am, but I think it's time to unite the party with Barack Obama as our candidate. He ran the better campaign.
I just hope he picks (and Hillary accepts) her as his Vice Predident. Obama/Hillary is completely unstoppable in a national election. One of them alone would probably win it, but the combined ticket would leave nothing in doubt, and only help get more Democrats elected to Congress to give us a real majority.
"...yet the Billary Spin will continue at all costs."
Well, that's a given. I'm already looking forward to her post-election day comments trashing the importance of Virginia's (and Maryland's, D.C.'s,) vote.
I live in Maryland and am stunned that Virginia was called so early. To me it's an indication that those closest to goverment (i.e. those who do the work day in and day out) are sending a message: We have Clinton Fatigue.
Why Clinton policies are loosing... THE DLC
May they not rest in peace
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_sdrobny_080212_hillary_is_not_lo...
What McCain "Independents" should know...
McCain Collected $100,000 From Abramoff's Firm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/12/mccain-received-100000-_n_86245...
In Brooklyn - Republicans are disguised as Democrats
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2008/02/head-of-dscc-is-lizard.html
Not So Super Tuesday Election Thread: Perhaps, for the clinton fans.
Fanon @ 6:
Everyone hates us now. Russia sent a few bombers to buzz one of our aircraft carriers yesterday.
Predictions (fire away):
Hillary gets the Dem nomination.
Obama doesn't, either because Hillary wins outright, because Hillary wins with the super delegates, or because Obama doesn't make it to the Dem convention.
Uhm, guys. Isn't it interesting that with 0% reporting and the polls have been closed for only 12 minutes that Virginia has been called for Senator Obama? Can't we even wait for at least 51% reporting before we call an winner?
now that Hillary has actually pimped out Chelsea to Jason Rae does that mean Hillary is going to apologize to David Shuster? I mean, he was retro-actively correct.
I'm tired of the media making this about race not issues. Every time they talk about numbers, it's white men vs black men, and white women vs black women voters. This is sickening. When are we actually going to hear what any of these candidates stand for and how they can affect this "change" that they keep talking about?
Forget crying. Hillary better fall on the floor, whale, kick and scream.
L.A. Confidential @ 12:
Aw, c'mon be honest. We don't hate you. Your government? Well that's a different story.
Phoenix Justice @ 14:
Makes for a good distraction, while some are laughing all the way to the bank after ripping off America.
http://tinyurl.com/ysj4cr
Whats Rodham's statement on what has happened to Valerie Plame and Sibel Edmonds?
Valerie Plame follows the real news too
and is still speaking
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5685
L.A. Confidential @ 20:
good point, but the predictions are from the exit polling, which (except when an election is stolen) are usually pretty accurate.
ConcernedCanuck @ 19:
Well okay maybe not hate but there is no shortage of Nations willing to enjoy watching us suffer now for the sins the suits have committed this past 7 years.
VietVet8666 @ 13:
That has been my prediction all along and that's why I tend to post supporting Obama. Methinks something is fishy here. No conspiracy theory, but I would tend to think crackpots would be infuriated to see a black candidate. Clinton? Nothing to fear as her voting record shows, but Obama is a question mark and a target.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 22:
Obviously those that are headed to the polls who now see "Obama Won" will think . . . well why in the hell even bother to vote then if he already won.
BrianS @ 7:
While I don't dislike an Obama/Clinton ticket, I feel that he could pick a better running mate. He needs someone who's viewed as "experienced" but who doesn't simultaneously bring the negatives with him or her of being so hated by so many on the right (Dodd or Richardson?) I just think with all the positives she would bring to the ticket, she would bring as many negatives.
L.A. Confidential @ 23:
Well if it's any consolation, I'm not enjoying it. You people don't deserve to take the rap for your government's corruption, fraud and outright killing. There are some, of course, that DO deserve it (those Bush 30%ers) but I haven't read anyone on here that does.
ConcernedCanuck @ 19:
That's funny. That's exactly what was said to my husband and I in a pub in Ireland. In 2003. We were going to pretend to be Canadian. My husband grew up 10 miles from the border and has a pretty muddy accent. I was pegged as American just from ordering a beer. That Chicago accent will give you away every time!
As to the poster who's wondering how they call it the polls so early, they explained it one night. Very complicated theory of prediciton which was verrrrrrry patiently re-explained by my husband. Still don't get it, but it hasn't been wrong yet.
Is John McCain Ineligible to be a US President?
Gambling 911
Tuesday February 12, 2008
John McCain was not born in the United States of America but rather born in Panama to US Citizens while his father served in the navy which appear to eliminate him from serving as President.
Here's what the constitution says regarding eligibility for the Presidency.......
"Article 2, Section 1, Clause , No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."
The exact definition of "A natural born Citizen" is unclear as stated in the Constitution but as there were no foreign military bases at the time and with the founding fathers' distaste for foreign intervention being clear it seems unlikely they meant anything other than a person having been born in the United States.
The 14th Amendment touches on the same issue and states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jusrisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States wherein the reside". You'll notice it says "All persons born in the United States"
That there are two types of U.S. Citizens....
1) Citizens born in the United States.
2) Naturalized US Citizens.
We must presume McCain is the latter as he was clearly not born in the United States (A military base in a foreign country is not soverign US territory.) leaving one to conclude that McCain is actually a 'Naturalized Citizen' and thus ineligible to be either President or Vice President.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2008/120208McCain.htm
ConcernedCanuck @ 24:
My theory is the cons are placing their bets on Obama is going to be a hell of a lot easier to beat then Hillary.
Um, maybe I missed something but I can't find any numbers for Obama's VA win? Like 24 - 16%, something? None of the news stations seem to be reporting them (CNN is just showing delegate counts over and over). Anyone know?
ConcernedCanuck @ 27:
Thanks. Americans got swindled into this racket by the suits I hope the world realizes it and gives us the benefit of the doubt.
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
Why would they want to beat him if they already have a majority of Congress bought and paid for? Sure seems that way to me by their voting patterns and a pile of these members have been there along time, so doubt they will get voted out.
Mr. XXXX @ 29:
I've been saying that for a while now. McCain is Panamanian, wtf is he doing running for preznit?
The "winner" is really a useless piece of information without the margin; in case you haven't heard the delegates are awarded proportionally.
L.A. Confidential @ 32:
I think that seeing as all this global trade crap is so firmly entrenched, there is no way the world cannot give you the benefit of the doubt. Our economies are so tightly wound together now, even recessions ripple around the globe like an earthquake aftershock. But, knowing politics like I hope I do, the commoners have never blamed the American people. Hell, I still like my relatives down there, even though they voted for Bush:-)
so i guess the huckster suspends tomorrow
too bad
L.A. Confidential @ 351:
There is more than 1800 delegates left to count - 20 states have not even voted! Turn off your TeeVee's and quite trying to call the race - it's just began and Hillary will be the President when this is all said and done. Hillary not Barack.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 355:
First time following politics I take?
strawberrybitch @ 347:
Yep...Take it from the Mortimer and Randolph.
I'm laughing, while I read these comments. Obama may be unknown, and that could be scary. Could it much worse than going with a known rich-boy who never finished anything he ever started. Who ran every business into the ground he started, and who has led us into TWO very failed Wars. He never finished his own Pilot duty. All of these things were known. He's done very well and hasn't risen up to any occasions. I would rather go with someone who has a sense of morals. Hillary hasn't even shown that, because if she hadn't voted for the Wars, she'd be smelling a little better. Really this election is about Hope, freedom and Peace..
GObama...
mo_dem @ 353:
Your cockiness is going to be your downfall.
L.A. Confidential @ 315:
Don't forget to mention loss of both houses of Congress, along with a big handful of governorships and state houses during his tenure. And lest we forget, an impeachment. Yea, I want to relive all that.
Obama's own diverse background allows him to see the world from outside the usual boundaries of race and culture.
Maybe he is the cure for America's soul-sickness.
It is certainly worth my vote to find out.
Rico @ 366:
You don't think that can't happen with Obama?
Matthews did the same thing with New England accents when he was in New Hampshire. He kept on noting Mike Barnacle's Boston accent. It became obnoxious.
The Smiths - Expose the Crooks @ 10:
uncle joe mccarthy @ 355:
How about this. A number of republicans changed their party affiliations from Repug to democrat about the time Rove left the Whitehouse do they could vote for Obama. Just so he'd win the nomination, then in November they vote for Mccain. Sounds far fetched? I swear the loud mouthed Obama supporter at my district caucus sounded more like a repug than a liberal democrat. I nearly popped him in the kisser when he started strong arming the little old ladies that supported Hillary. And the way he huddled with his buddy from another district seemed weird too. He didn't fit in to our little group of old folks and working class folks.
Nicolle, could you hand me that broom over there?
Obama is simply the better candidate.
I'm against the superdelegates. It's unfair. And for the Democratic party it should be a public relations nightmare. But I'm thinking Clinton and Obama knew the deal with the superdelegates when they began their runs for the presidency. Why wasn't this issue brought out then? Do we wait to see which way the wind is blowing and then decide to change it or cry foul? What if as a strategy Obama had courted the superdelegates. Would we think it unfair or praise him for using the strategy successfully.
I don't think it's fair that the people of Michigan and Florida are deprived of their vote so let's change that while we are at it. Let's change the rules. Let's forget about the delegates and let the candidate go on who gets the greatest popular vote.
Does anyone know what the popular vote is between Clinton and Obama or where to find it?
L.A. Confidential @ 368:
Of course not, "L.A.C." He's the second coming of MLK, JFK and JC all rolled into one. Woo Hoo. Yea....We're Saaaaved.
Why do you hate "hope" and "change" so much?
Rico @ 366:
As far as the impeachment part the anti-democracy Republicans will try to overthrow any election that puts a Democrat in the White House. If the Democrat has an unpaid parking ticket, a dog without tags, whatever it takes. The key is too make sure they don't recapture congress to do it ever again.
idread @ 364:
That man you so brilliantly described got elected. TWICE! Second time with low ratings and amidst the Iraq war.
That's the general voting public for you.
Ruthless People @ 342:
It may just be that the media will turn around and start to back the Democrats more and more (but, yes, scrutiny for sure, they can't help themselves - love a good scandal that requires a pound of flesh from someone)... if there's enough of a swing they'll do it in a heartbeat.... particularly Murdoch who's been hedging his bets already.
jimbo92107 @ 367:
Not with Paris Hilton and Britney dominating the headlines.
L.A. Confidential @ 368:
It's possible but unlikely. The mere thought of seeing Albright, Holbrook and Wesley Clark back on the national stage is enough to make me puke. Do you want to talk about wars based on manufactured intelligence, the Clintons were masters at it. Check out what's going on in Kosovo today. There's no time for Clinton nostalgia in America because the problems we face are too great. Call it Clinton Fatigue.
Yeah Obama!
But I have a problem with the racist white population who all of
a sudden wants an African-American President. We all know about the
trickery that goes on under chimpy's regime.
Is this a ploy?
mccain shouldn't win but the repugs believe...who cares about repugs,
they don't have the numbers (they believe mccain can beat an African-American.)
When I see ND, and NE is for Obama I freak. It's so bright that I see
the second coming.j This is strange.
Ain't no mf way white racist repugs (Average Joes) want Obama to win. Is this primary a
farce? Damn straight. Something is very fishy with this whole thing.
Think about Katrina where whites shot at African-Americans who wanted to
to move to higher grounds. Think about the Jena 6. Think about how whites cops
beat the shit out of brown people.
There is some bullshit going on.
I hope these are true numbers and The United States
of American is moving forward.
Ruthless People @ 375:
Bowing to this godawful administration's wishes , especially like today when it came time to vote on immunity for all telecom companies that illegally aided Chimpy and Co , is not a step in the right direction for that to come to fruition ; bad enough to run against the garbage GOP and their bag of dirty tricks.
It's even worse when you allow yourself to become an enabler against the wishes of your constituents ..........
Johnny2Bad @ 374:
LOL when you've lived and breathed it your entire life just to have the rug yanked out in 2000 because Democrats were to busy shopping and goofing off instead of landsliding Gore in your perspective changes.
Comparisons of total votes for candidates in the race:
Virginia
44% - Obama - 617,703
24% - Clinton - 341,844
17% - McCain - 240,734
14% - Huckabee - 195,974
Maryland
47% - Obama - 140,467
29% - Clinton - 87,945
16% - McCain - 46,506
8% - Huckabee - 23,816
Either there's more Democratic voters than Republicans or the latter aren't bothering to show up at the polls.
Rico @ 379:
Kosovo was manufactured? Gee, I'll guess I should tell my husband who did back fill for the Balkins when they had to stop the ethnic cleansing there. Wow. Who da' thunk that year we spent in Europe was all for naught.
Chris Gamble @ 357:
I agree with you entirely. Democrats are going to throw away an election they were bound to win, based on anger and emotion.
The GOP are on the verge of outsmarting us yet again if we are not careful.
idread @ 364:
No...its not about f*cking "hope, freedom and peace"...its about corporate greed, out of control healthcare costs, global warming, energy independence, loss of jobs overseas, peak oil, restoring constitutional guarantees, getting 160,000+ combat troops out of Iraq and a rapidly crumbling economy.
Oppps. I can just see you glazing over...Better cue up the latest Tivo'd Obama inspirational victory speech du jour...That'll perk you up.
All this debate in this thread makes me think of the days to come if either Clinton or McCain are elected. We're back to 51-49 politics and nothing in America ever gets done. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be, but since I probably only got a couple of decades left alive on this Earth, I'd like to see something different. Probably too much to ask for, but I'll hope for it anyway.
Jakey @ 385:
Too late.
Wonderland @ 334:
In the case of Virginia and Maryland it looks more like 3:1 than 1:1.
"The Young And The Young At Heart." McCain is neocon toast with fake viagra!
strawberrybitch @ 384:
I didn't say Kosovo was manufactured but implied that the lead up to the war was based on manufactured intelligence. Perhaps you should just go out and research the facts. It's off-topic here.
Wonderland @ 334:
STFU and vote for your old man. chimpy didn't work out and you know it.
TROLL
Thing Fish @ 389:
Wake up. Primaries mean squat. Just ask this guy...and this guy...and this guy.
kravitz @ 390:
And so is a huge block of voters who will NEVER vote for an African American with the middle name Hussein, even on our side. Look I was going to vote for Obama until I realized the main reason I was going to was because he WAS black. I had to ask myself would I vote for him if he wasn't an African American, I had to answer honestly...no.
Rico @ 391:
Perhaps you should present some.
As a white male, can I just say that I'm sick and tired of watching pundits on the teevee argue over whether I'm a bigger racist or chauvinist? Maybe I just voted for the best person?
aaawyeah! go obama! michelle will be the best first lady since eleanor roosevelt.
=ck
Virginia rocks. I just voted for Obama 30 minutes ago and already a winner. Technology baby. The rest of the country needs to catch up.
bandit @ 26:
A Clinton/Obama ticket would be good; an Obama/Clinton ticket would be bad.
Clinton/Obama would be good because it would soothe all of the inevitable disheartened, upset Obama voters who we might lose in November. He would also hopefully still help draw independents and Republicans from McCain. PLus he has a nice, clear path to run again for prez later.
Obama/Clinton has no advantages - Clinton supporters, I feel, would mostly still vote in November no matter who the nominee, so there's no need for her to be on the ticket to recover lost votes. And she might negate Obama positives (drawing in independents, republicans, where she's very unpopular). I don't know who he should pick as a running mate.
Scott @ 17:
Part of the reason for the focus on race and gender (and class as well) is that certain campaigns tout the categories as where they have their strengths. When you listen to the advisors and supporters of each camp, they tend to group their supporters along those categories. Watch how the losing camps spin the losses along terms of those numbers and categories. It's not just the media that does it.
ConcernedCanuck @ 33:
Max Control
BrianS @ 7:
Do you really think she would accept? I agree that it would be a great ticket but I feel that her pride (not necessarily a bad thing) would prevent her from accepting the second fiddle job.
What about someone like Chuck Hagel (Obama/Hagel)?
Greg @ 34:
It's called jus sanguinis
Through birth abroad to two United States citizens
See also: jus sanguinis
In most cases, one is a U.S. citizen if both of the following are true:
Both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth
At least one parent lived in the United States prior to the child's birth.
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. He or she may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have his or her citizenship recognized.
Richard @ 43:
I don't see her accepting. She just doesn't want to be vice president. Unless she were planning to bide her time and run again later, this time with the vice prez experience/title...which I also don't see (she's getting kind of old, isn't she? Not that I mind...but if people are finding McCain too old...I just don't see it happening).
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 16:
Thanks, I needed that chuckle to end the day.
Fanon @ 6:
It's a meaningless gesture. Oil is totally fungible. Venezuela won't sell to the U.S. but they'll sell to another country who will then sell to the U.S. Unless Venezuela cut production (which it isn't doing) or unless the majority of the world's oil producers stopped selling to the US (which isn't happening), then Chavez' gesture won't have any effect.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 81:
Well, Brian, I think it is the Obamaites, led by Axelrod, who played the race card. In fact, I believe they have race baited their way to a couple of victories.
(this is from my Greatest Hits)
Was Bill talking about MLK, or civil rights, in NH when he said “fairy tale” and “give me a break?”
No, he was talking about other things, and was fristrated by the fact that Obama won Iowa with a campgian based on “hope,” “change” and pixie dust. The media twisted that, and o-MOB-a from Chicago wasn’t ethial enough to call the media out. Instead, he let it roll.
After a while, Obamorons caught wind of the distortion too. But just kept on playing to it.
Bill’s Jesse Jackson comments are intersting for a couple of reasons. For one, the media never shows the full context of the discussion. Craig Crawford (a Clintonnite) has said that the discussion covered the history of the South Carolina primary/caucus. He said Meeks from Florida was there. I cannot vouch for whether that is true or not. But the media surely relies on a five-second sound clip and does not present the remark within the context of a longer discussion.
Also, it is interesting that the pundits, who are big on showing us how much they know about presidential political history, failed to mention before the election that South Carolina had been a Jesse state–Twice. I follow this stuff (gee, ya think?), and I don’t recall it being mentioned once in the run-up.
That puts historical context on it. The black citizens of the state have traditionaly voted a black candidate to the top whn given the opportunity.
The media did not present this historical nugget because they wanted to misrepresent the uniquenss of Obama winning South Carolina, and wanted to use his win there as a momentum-maker.
So, when Bill Clinton presented this bit of verboten history, he was labeled a racist.
Nah, Mob ties in Chicago and playing race cards against people that have done so much for everyone's rights -- it doesn't add up to hope and change in my book.
Go Texas. Go Ohio. Go PA.
Go Hillary.
Thing Fish @ 383:
It's no secret that the Republicans are demoralized and are ready to split into three factions: 1. Conservatives 2. Business 3. Evangelicals
Do you know who would unite them and motivate them back to the polls?
Hillary Clinton
Why the core Hillary supporters are in denial of this fact is amazing to me. They think she's made of steel so she'll withstand any Republican attack and still generate the huge turnout that Obama does. Bush is not on the ballot. The new voters that are swelling the turnout are ethusiastic about Obama and not the Democratic party. I think Howard Dean understands this, but Hillary Clinton and how core supporters do not. And it's going to be a recipe for disaster in the Fall when Blacks and first-time voters stay home, and Men and the Independents will go to McCain. If you think that women and hispanics alone can carry her against McCain, you're simply not that well informed. If Obama is tearing into her base, why won't McCain after the base collapse upon itself after a nasty primary process she can only win with super delegates that smell like the Supreme Court in 2000 all over again?
Johnny2Bad @ 386:
Don't forget all the celebrity's and beautiful rich people constantly being crammed down our throats. This makes the Reagan Era look mild in comparison.
Rico @ 391:
What part of, I lived in Europe at the time do you not get. NATO was dropping the ball, we had to step in. People were dying, women rapped. Do you need an eyewitness. I know more than a few...personally.
Thing Fish @ 383:
...Or apparently 10-15% are showing up to vote for Democrats in some states...
HeShootsHeScores!
Jamie,
He’s the Govenor—not Rich Little.
Now that was funny!
Johnny2Bad @ 393:
Well can't wake up to a few names. Are you saying McGovern, Dukakis, Mondale all recieved more than twice the votes in primaries than any of their Republican counterparts. But still lost the primary?
I'm looking for the numbers now so I can compare apples to apples. If you have a link to that information you can save me some time.
Mister Anderson @ 397:
So it's the Obamainian Party?
Thing Fish,
"Either there’s more Democratic voters than Republicans or the latter aren’t bothering to show up at the polls.
…Or apparently 10-15% are showing up to vote for Democrats in some states…"
Or the raptures come and gone!
Ryan @ 400:
Maryland's an open primary, Virginia's a closed primary... air ball!
Ryan @ 400:
And guess what, they can vote for McCain come November. Does anyone else remember when a Daily Kos diarist suggested we vote for a repug in some northeastern state election just to throw the vote againt the frontrunner? Who's to say the repugs aren't not doing that now?
L.A. Confidential @ 403:
So Obama's new voters hate the Democratic party but are voting for a Democrat wow thats a winning combination.
Or is it just the same old Old People suck routine? Another winner.
strawberrybitch @ 394:
Of course, that's the reason he's even close to the nod...Its been said over and over here:
jimbo @ 367: "Obama's own diverse background allows him to see the world from outside the usual boundaries of race and culture.
Maybe he is the cure for America's soul-sickness."
The prescription for salvation. The great black hope.
o-MOB-a from Chicago is a GOP wet dream come true.
Thank goodness that Hillary will win.
L.A. Confidential @ 403:
Maybe it's the birth, or rebirth, of the People's Progressive Party. What's being lost in this discussion, and I heard it on MSNBC, is that neither Obama or McCain are party insiders. They're both running insurgent campaigns to the outside of their respective parties. Obama's core supporters are those who are rebellious against the "establishment". And we all know how Conservatives and Evangelicals hate McCain. Yet, both are the leading candidates to the their respective nominations. Both of their core support come from outside of their political parties. Huckabee wouldn't get the Independents and moderate Democrats versus Barak, just like Hillary won't get the youth or Independents just like McCain.
For those who asked for a Kosovo reference, sorry I can't get the link to post. Maybe it's because I'm just too tired and bleary-eyed from putting ice skates on old ladies to get them to the polls today in Maryland.
For those interested Google "How to Make a Bad Situation Impossible, Great Power Meddling in Kosovo" By DIANA JOHNSTONE.
I'd really look forward to an honest thread on C&L's about the mess in Kosovo. It's the next big war BTW.
Thing Fish @ 405:
Whoops. My bad. Virginia's open (West Virginia's closed)...
Still don't buy that republican voters are promoting Obama. Unless anyone knows of this being encouraged...
converting Republicans into Obamicans....... believe
If you think o-MOB-a is not a party insider, you are in for lots of learning.
Call it Obamaducation.
For Obamorons.
(Yes, I'm running with those from another post.)
Mister Anderson @ 410:
Obama and McCain aren't party Insiders?
Okay.
Now I understand why George Wallace was a Democrat.
Mister Anderson @ 410:
Do you really think Coulter or Limpballs will truly vote for a Democrat over McCain? No way, it's party over country every time.
L.A. Confidential @ 407:
You're missing the entire point of the movement. Hillary's whole campaign is based around the idea that she has the experience to bring about change under the current rules. That means Hillary will go to Washington and try to get things done, but get things done in the usual Washington way......we're a minority of people control and govern the few through money and power. Barak's whole campaign is based around the idea that he has the strength and courage to go to Washington and change the rules. He at least claims he can go there and not become a puppet to that minority, but facilitate change through the power yielded from the people. He's saying that the collective voice and efforts of 10 million people can defeat the collective influence of $10 million.
You either believe him or you don't. Barak is offering change. Hillary is offering more of the same....but claiming she can get different results.
I'm putting my faith in Barak because Hillary is too experienced (meaning too much baggage) and too connected (meaning too many special interests) to do what she claims. Barak may only have a 30/70 chance, but Hillary only has a 1/99 chance.
Rico @ 416:
Really? From reading your previous posts...I don't think that you actually do.
Jakey @ 385:
Relax. Obama will never lose to mccain. Get real.
If Obama is "Omoba" then Loubie is a Booby.
strawberrybitch @ 417:
Are you asking me that question? I'm arguing that if Hillary is the nominee, Limbaugh and Coulter will do a 180 and support McCain 150%. I think the Evangelicals will donate all they have and make a million phone calls on his behalf. If Obama is the nominee, they won't vote for him, but their opposition won't be as intense. There is already talk of some in the Republican party who believe they should forfeit and regroup for 2012 because their party is such a disaster. But they refuse to remain idle facing the prospects of another Hillary and Bill administration.
I am curious to know how Obama gets 75% of the votes cast in DC but he and Clinton virtually split the delegates. Can someone explain that to me?
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 420:
Dude, I really want to believe everything you guys say, I like Obama...and that is the reason I know he will lose. My support is the kiss of death.
Mister Anderson @ 410:
Think again.
Shawn St.Clair @ 423:
Super Delegates....
Thing Fish @ 412:
There are certainly Rove-bots out there wanting to subvert Democracy by throwing votes the other way, but I'm talking about resonable republicans who are disillusioned by Bush and Neocons and war. I know several who see McCain and Huck as problems, and see Obama as a strong candidate.
In the end, a huge segment of the vote is cast by people who just want to have voted for the winner. Obama is the only winner I see in this group of candidates.
L.A. Confidential @ 415:
No they are not party insiders. Do you think Hillary could've won 10 straight contests and Barak would still be able to move forward? Why do you think Barak went to get money from the internet in the first place? He tried to get the major donors, but they were already locked up by Bill Clinton. Obama is a Washington politician.....but be realistic....Hillary and Bill has been playing there for 35 years and he's only been a player for 4. Name one organization where 4 years of experience gives you equal billing to 35?
McCain is a Washington pol too. But his own party is rejecting him. He's flip-flopped recently, but his reputation as a Maverick before 2004 was well-earned. You don't have to believe me, ask the majority of Republicans who are keeping him on the campaign trail by refusing to welcome him with open arms.
I am not sure if any of the candidates that won tonight are 'outsiders' to their respective parties but I do know that the better leader won the democratic primaries.
Johnny2Bad @ 425:
I don't have to think again. I can speak from my own experience as a voter. I was prepared to vote for McCain as a registered Independent who leans left in 2000. I'm a registered Independent who's going to vote for Barak in one week. And I'm already on the record saying I'll vote for McCain over Hillary is she wins purely on super delegates.
So if you think I'm one in million who can think for themselves.....then I STRONGLY advise you to think again.
Let me clarify....I would've voted for McCain in the primary in 2000, but Gore in the general. This year, I have no issue with voting for McCain over Clinton at all.
Greg @ 34:
Stop with this crap. You've been answered before. McCacin was born on a US military base to parents who were both US citizens; therefore, he is a US citizen.
He's bat-shit crazy, but he's a US citizen.
L.A. Confidential @ 4:
this could be a very serious problem for the USA. this man hates bush.
you seem to be on top of most of what's going on. i don't always agree w/u, but
what would this site be w/out the diversified thoughts and opinions you find here.
thanks for the headsup.
Aaron @ 44:
Hagel is wrong on a lot of issues, and he is crooked: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm
Besides, I think if he chose Clinton, its like a life insurance policy. If he chose Hagel, he'd be begging the wackos to see if they could prematurely end his term.
Richard @ 48:
It makes a great statement though for Chavez!! Rubbin' Bushie's nose for the coup attempt that the clown tried to buy until the people revolted.
Obama sweeps tonight. Wins Wisconsin. Hillary takes Texas. Obama takes Ohio and Vermont. Obama takes Pennsylvania and North Carolina. Game. Set. Match.
ConcernedCanuck @ 36:
I have relatives who support the cons. We never talk politics on holidays, just weather, sports and kids.
Basically, they still believe that resources are infinite and the Triple McCheese Mansion is within reach. If they luck out and win the lottery. And Bush protects us from the advancing forces of Islam and reasserts the U.S. as the worlds Big Boss.
Very strange
"won't have any effect" >? really?....you'll know the effect if the suspension lasts
Mr.XXXX - "A military base in a foreign country is not soverign[sic] US territory."
You couldn't be more wrong. Any US government building or installation in a foreign county is, in point of fact, sovereign American soil. It's not even a debatable issue.
But let's not let a little thing like facts get in the way of political discourse.
remember people...it aint the popular vote...its the delegate count
and no matter what, the two candidates will still be neck and neck after tonite
oh, and in regards to the pimpin outrage
while it may not be pimpin, what do you call it when you send your 27 year old, attractive, succesful daughter to a brunch date with a 21 year old male superdelegate?
they do the same thing at universities when they want to get hs football players to sign letters of intent....24 year olds show these 17 and 18 year old kids around campus
and how the fuck does a 21 year old become a super delegate anyway?
Rupert and Hillary sitting in a tree
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/12/hillary-fox-friendlier-t_n_8618...
Zuckerfrosch @ 37:
Well said. As a white male I'm sick of the time the media is devoting to race and gender. I voted in Maryland today for Obama based on the simple fact that I have Bush Fatigue and don't want to follow it with 4 or 8 years of Clinton Fatigue. It's time to turn the page in this country before it's too late.
BrianS @ 7:
The Obamarites labeled Hillary a racist. I for one will not be joining the caravan, which is headed for a rough March by the way.
At least keep the white towel on your shoulder a little longer.
ConcernedCanuck @ 52:
Well, it's a great statement, but he's threatened it several times before; and we are their biggest export market. It could not be carried out without harming themselves, as well.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 57:
Well lets see, we've pissed away our oil endowment, bulldozed our factories, arbitraged our productive labor, destroyed both family farms and the commercial infrastructure of main street, and trained our population to become overfed TV zombie "consumers" of other peoples' productivity, paid for by "money" they haven't earned and can no longer even make the minimum payments on their credit cards.
Good question
CD @ 56:
Bullshit of course that's debatable.
L.A. Confidential @ 54:
You know my relatives? You just nailed their logic. Sounds exactly like them. They eat up the spin from CorporateNewsNetworks like it was some kind of pablum. We no talk politics either. Not because of fighting but because of their complete lack of curiosity in the least bit. They don't care as long as they can get a new car every 3 years, and "did you see the sale on this week?"......It's pretty sad. Surprised they can walk up the street without running into parking meters and hydro poles with the tunnel vision they have.
Sen. Clinton fails own standard; time to end her campaign
I hope Obama loses the rest of em. He is no good for our country, although Hillary is no better.
Our country is screwed!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Number of Operations Iraq Freedom and Enduring Freedom casualties
as confirmed by U.S. Central Command: 4417
dadams @ 50:
hooray....5 dollar gas at the pump tomorrow
people spending that 600 dollar rebate to gas up for the week
this is what happens when you play chicken with a dictator who controls something important
we will not survive the next 11 months
Herself @ 46:
McCain is (slightly) older than Hillary will be in eight years. (Did that make sense?) He'll be 72 in January 2009. Hillary will be 69 in January 2016.
Ruthless People @ 58:
"So the next day, my father went to see him; only this time with Luca Brasi."
http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/alexi.giannoulias.christine.2.332409.html
(God, I LOVE this video)
loubie @ 60:
Don't forget that even Edwards took offense at the Clinton camp comments in South Carolina. And a lot of African Americans did as well. Let's not just lay the blame at Obama's feet. After all, if ill advised words hadn't been chosen then there wouldn't have been a problem at all.
Dhalgren @ 53:
I agree he sweeps tonight and takes Wisconsin. But she will likely take Ohio (she has a 17 point lead in polls) and Texas. I haven't seen polls for Pennsylvania but presume she has an advantage (blue collar democrats and support of the popular governor). If she takes those three states, does she have the advantage again and then it comes to the superdelegates?
Fanon @ 61:
Hmmm...not sure about that Fanon. That used to be the line up here in the Great White North too but the percentage of trade we have with the US has actually dropped by about 20% the last few years from what I've read (if it's accurate). That would mean we have found new customers (China? Europe? Who knows?)...I'm sure Chavez could find a market for his resources. That market might just well sell it back to the US, but at what cost?
TheEnticer @ 429:
After 7 years of Bush Elmer Fudd would arouse people as a great leader.
loubie @ 396:
You are absolutely nuts. You play the race card because you are racist. I'm sure Obama heard it all billybob.
Wonderland @ 334:
What are you smoking? That stuff must have messed with your head. Obama getting chewed by the crypt keeper or that guy who doesn't believe in evolution? Really? Are you living in a parallel universe or taking acid? What's going on?
Ryan @ 427:
Regardless of Obama versus Clinton. There's not a 50/50 democratic/republican liberal/conservative split in the country that some would want to believe.
I posted the numbers as a comparison of votes for each candidate. Numbers are really more like 2:1 than 3:1 (Democratic voters to Republican).
Mitt Romney @ 434:
Uh, hello, are you forgetting the putz currently inhabiting the Whitehouse? You know, and I know he was a loser, ultra rich, dumbass frat boy bit the rest of the country wanted to have a friggin' beer with him....we are so dead.
loubie @ 414:
I know talking to trolls is a no-no.
STFU and get real, stop your juvenile shit.
L.A. Confidential @ 432:
So theoretically Hill could also arouse people as a great leader but for some reasons she is not. That was my observation.
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