Who's Your Maverick? John McCain Votes In Favor Of Torture: UPDATED AOL Poll
The Senate voted today to ban the CIA from using torture on suspected terrorists and the most famous POW in the Senate voted against the bill. The Maverick is now most assuredly dead and the betrayal is complete. The blogosphere was all over this issue, and thankfully the measure passed, but for McCain, it was a show of pure cowardice. In other words, the Senator who himself was tortured for years and has previously spoken out against it, voted to allow the use of torture on others to save his political hide and pander to a party base that despises him. Is this the sort of weakness you want from your Commander in Chief?
Tell me again how this no jobs, more wars, pro-torture, pro-Bush tax cuts, anti-choice, pro-surge Republican is going to draw Independents and Democrats to his side this fall? As a side note, would it surprise you that alleged Democratic caucus members Senators Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman also voted for torture today? Take the Hot Seat---AOL poll below the fold:
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The Viet Cong agree with you Johnny.
We get the leaders we deserve.
WE ARE A NATION OF WAR CRIMINALS.
That was pretty spineless.
Ben Nelson needs to be the next in line for the Lieberman treatment. Lieberman is now a much less effective foil deployed by the Corporate Media as a Democratic stand-in to parry and marginalize Liberal opinion that he is no longer in the party.
wow,, thats really amazing. I wonder if the bill retroactively legalized torture. thereby making all the evidence against the gitmo 4 usable.
Maybe we could get the NVA to take him back for a while to "refresh" his memory.
"The Cave In Express"
in time
He flipped flopped on torture and should attacked by Obama and Clinton on this.
Alzhymer's? Or did torture actually work on him, such that he knows it's effectiveness?
LOL!
STICK A FORK IN THIS TURKEY, HE'S DONE!!!!!
I smell a landslide coming...beyond our wildest dreams
"The Pander Express" is on its way to Minneapolis.
VERY predictable.
The Conservative Mantra: Always Support AUTHORITARIAN Measures. Always.
Your true colors
True colors
True colors are shining through
"Tell me again how this no jobs, more wars, pro-torture, pro-Bush tax cuts, anti-choice, pro-surge Republican is going to draw Independents and Democrats to his side this fall?"
This comment reeks of naiveté.
Does it really matter what McCain's actual positions are? Of course not.
What matters is how he is framed by the media and in particular people like Coulter, Rush and Stewart.
For a less naive take on McCain, go here:
http://theinternetisnotatrk.blogspot.com/
Yup, he flippity flopped...and he's going to be the next POTUS because we dems are eating are own, and all the while Rove is justing sitting back and letting us do his job for him.
Cyndi Lauper - True Colors
c'mon howie lets have a mccain remix before the nite is done ;)
The end is here for right wing sleeper agents in the Democratic party. The message is, if you run against your constituents and are an enabler for the Bush regime, you'd better be looking for a job as a lobbyist.
Antiwar Candidate Donna Edwards Defeats Incumbent Rep. Albert Wynn in Key Maryland Primary
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/13/a_changing_tide_from_democratic_vo...
Take back the party!
This is the biggest sellout since Obama left his principles behind and campaigned for Lieberman.
McCain doesn't have a shot anyway. They don't want a psycho of opportunity, they like the real deal only.
they're just making this election too easy
but these pea brained sociopaths can't help themselves.
they are automatons that MUST follow their predescribed perdetermined paths.
Applepie @ 18:
Shhhh
Joe, Joe tell me it ain't so! Not Joe.
What was the final count as to votes; that is, how many voted for and how many
voted against torture...and if available, broken down between Dems and Repugs. ??
helloworld @ 19:
You're joking right? If there is one thing the GOP is good at, it's making silk purses out of sow ears. IE a good old boy out of a drunken, coked up pinhead.
The Wheels on The McCain Express are wobbling pretty severely. McCains McTrain has jumped the track and is heading for the scrap-heap.
Like KO said tonight, McCain is running on "The old guy on the porch yelling at the kids to get off the lawn" Party.
helloworld @ 19:
McCain doesn't have a shot? This is the General voting population that re-elected Bush in 04.
Doggiebobo @ 22:
51 Aye, 46(maybe 47) No.
Doggiebobo @ 22:
Opps, never mind, I see the vote was 51 to 45 "against" torture; but is there a breakdown of the 45 who voted "for" torture?
Mine is one independent vote he lost in 2000 when he endorsed GW Bush, the every antithesis of what made me consider him in the first place.
Studies have shown that positive campaigns win elections. McCain has only a negative message: More war, fewer jobs vs. Obama's hope and yes we can! That said, it's still going to be a tough, no holds barred campaign.
Fox News Radio's Tom Sullivan aired "side-by-side comparison" of speeches by Hitler and Obama
http://mediamatters.org/items/200802130016?f=h_latest
Slate editor calls Obama speech style 'fascistic'
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Slate_editor_calls_Obama_speech_style_0204...
CNN again associates Obama with bin Laden
http://mediamatters.org/items/200802120007?f=s_search
This is just the beginning salvo. It's the same old Rovian tactic of attacking one's opponent by using their strength against them. Haven't the American people had enough of this crap? Being this over the top shows how desperate the Bush/McCain party is. It's risky and is likely to backfire.
Cons are Cons
AP - Wed Feb 13, 6:07 PM
WASHINGTON - President Bush, at loggerheads with House Democrats over how closely the government can eavesdrop on U.S. citizens, warned Wednesday that terrorists were planning fresh assaults that would make the Sept. 11 attacks "pale by comparison."
Whoops it's actually 51-45.
Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Nay
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Clinton (D-NY), Not Voting
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Not Voting
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Nay
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Nay
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McCaskill (D-MO), Not Voting
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Nay
Obama (D-IL), Not Voting
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Sununu (R-NH), Nay
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Warner (R-VA), Nay
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Yea
If and when Obama get the nomination, he will wipe the floor with this fucking idiot. I think we really, REALLY need a rule that says that NO ONE over 60 can run for President. Also, a mandatory psycological assessment and I.Q. test wouldn't go amiss. You can tell Obama, and his supporters are very computer savy and must be trolling sites like this to find out what the people want or at least want to hear.
John McCain is 71 fucking years old. We don't trust most seniors to drive a goddamm car so why should we allow the Presidency to fall into another senile Ronald Reagan wannabe.
McCain will lose so badly that his ancestors will feel something like a kick to the face and say to themselves "what the hell was THAT"?
Snowball @ 29:
Cons may have to steal another election.
Snowball @ 4:
Hopefully we will have so many real Democrats elected this year that we won't need Ben and Joe anymore. With a huge majority in both houses of Congress and a Democrat in the White House we will finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Let it be known that for such a close vote count, Obama and Clinton both showed their leadership and senatorial responsibility on this issue by not bothering to show up to vote.
Had it not been for 4 Republican voting against torture, the outcome would have been different.
Also: since when did torture become a freakin' partisan issue?
Doggiebobo @ 27:
Chris Gamble @ # 31. Many thanks for the voting record. Now, we must find a
minimum nine(9) of those voting "for" torture to change their postions. Why? Because
bush-lite has threatened to Veto this law and it'll take sixty(60) votes to over ride
his veto....
ffff @ 32:
a bit rough and tumble but I guess there are some nice points there :)
ffff @ 32:
He can win don't kid yourself. Old people far outnumber young people now days.
A horrid thought for the young I can imagine.
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
Yep, that's what they are hoping to keep the fear mongering going. The neo-cons, and the conservatives alike thrive on fear and fear tactics to scare the public into believing them. We all know that already.
I just hope most people are tired of it by now.
So McCain caved and sold out to the fear mongers. We'll see how that plays out in the general elections.
Doggiebobo @ 36:
I just found 2 more votes(making 53); being Obama and Clinton since neither voted
on this today....so we need to find seven(7) others in order to override a veto.
What the hell? I remember when he criticized proponents of "waterboarding"...
Chip @ 39:
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
-- George W. Bush (August 5, 2004)
The twisted narrative that the Corporate Media is weaving contends that because Obama's supporters cheer and Hitler's supporters cheered, Obama equals Hitler. This is a classic Logical Fallacy called a false analogy.
Read all about this flawed argumentative technique:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
They were playing Bush's speech today and it was the usual vague terror threat that he's been fond of using over and over. Here's the quotation that the 'pale by comparison' line comes from:
"At this moment, somewhere in the world, terrorists are planning new attacks on our country. Their goal is to bring destruction to our shores that will make September the 11th pale by comparison."
Could he have been any more vague? I've got a feeling we're going to see a lot of this kind of fear mongering as we get closer to the election as they try to give McCain an assist. And I think we ought to start setting the odds on how soon we hear Bush directly claim that Obama/Clinton would be directly responsible for these attacks if they were to be elected.
let there be no doubt in anyones mind here,McCain will push the Cheney / Boosh agenda further if he gets elected.There's no doubt in my mind. He was promised the nomination and we're seeing it happen in front of our eyes.I don't see how he can win,but I can see them trying to steal it.
Weather Vane McCain
Moose @ 35:
Yeah, I thought about that too.
Though it doesn't surprise me. Especially after th 90's
Roark77 @ 44:
So now the "dirty games begin"...and I could have sworn that I recently saw/heard
bush-lite say that he was not going to become involved in the Repug campaign. Oh
that's right, I forgot, he is a lying liar of the worst kind..and since "fear" won him the
election in 2004, why not keep on keeping on. Sickening, disgusting and I want to
puke.
"And in the general hardening of outlook that set in ... practices which had been long abandoned ... -- imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions, the use of hostages and the deportation of whole populations -- not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive."
~George Orwell "1984"
This sack of shit sold his soul to the devil right after the chimp kicked his ass in 2000.
WTG john.....your momma must be proud of you, you senile old fart.
In related news, the faded memory of John McCain's manhood, still laying on the floor of the Hanoi jail cell where he left it, wept.
Yeah, yeah. Repubs suck. They trashed the constitution. They started an illegal war. Bush is a criminal. All givens, and that the Democrats have done absolutely nothng about.
But why are we giving Obama such a free ride, at the time we can all least afford it?
See No. 31 above. IF your Senator is one of the 45 who voted "for" torture, you
need to contact his/her office and express your outrage and try to persude he/she
to vote just the opposite when bush-lite vetos the law.
That dirty coward left his balls and his dignity in Vietnam. Screw him. Hopefully, after he loses his bid for the presidency, the people of Arizona will kick his ass out of the senate, too.
John Mccain: Terrorist supporter!
He can't escape donating cash to Nicaraguan Contras!
Leave John McCain ALONE!
He's a WAR HERO!
Damn You!
BUHWAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBuhwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
loubie @ 52:
Don't forget that Clinton didn't vote either. Let's not give either of them a free ride.
(I'm still waiting for you to explain your "Kerry lost us Vietnam" comment from the other day. That sounded incredibly like freeper rhetoric.)
mudshark @ 56:
run mudshark run :)
nice post btw :)
wow,even Feinstein voted correctlyon this one.will wonders never cease.
Moose says:
"Let it be known that for such a close vote count, Obama and Clinton both showed their leadership and senatorial responsibility on this issue by not bothering to show up to vote.
Had it not been for 4 Republican voting against torture, the outcome would have been different.
Also: since when did torture become a freakin’ partisan issue?"
It is unforgivable that Clinton and Obama would miss this vote.
And don't forget, had their been a tie, Darth would have been there to break it!!!
So. Does this mean Huckabee and Ron Paul still have a chance????!!!
Snowball @ 49:
thank you so much for that...
Roark77 @ 57:
Agreed. But when Bush-lite vetos this Bill(as he has threatened/promised), their two votes
plus another seven(7) will be needed to override the veto...and I'm rather confident that
BOTH are opposed to torture...but where are the other seven votes coming from????
loubie @ 52:
Check my comment
Snowball@29
Obama getting a free ride? What are you talking about? Hillary would be getting the same treatment, no Democrat will be given a free ride by the Corporate Media. There's no reason to believe that Clinton has any more ability to withstand the predictable onslaught of smears than Obama can. Fair or not, her negatives are already too high in the public mind. The Corporate Media has too much at financial stake if Democrats get to control the FCC.
The one thing I respected him for. Sigh.
Unbelievable, Henry David Thoreau was jailed and he came out with "Civil Disobedience" to inform those against unjust and unlawful arrests, MLK Jr. came out with one of the most beautiful speaches calling for us to unite due to division and inequality, and here we have John McCain. I thought that someone of his caliber and experience would be against ALL WARS and see them as violations against human rights and all that is decent. Senator McCain, the world isn't the Viet Cong! How about you just sign a declaration of war on peace! Hell, we can even call it,"The War on Peace, " or "The War on People Who Don't Want to be Occupied."
You're better than that senator McCain; I've been to Iraq twice and have enough common sense to see that we are occupiers fighting asainst people that want to be free. Lets apologize, save face, and stop these unconstitutional murders!
Strawberrybitch @ 15:
I smell troll droppings.
Snowball @ 29:
The guy that called in on Sullivans show said he was 65 years old, about my age. If he heard Hitlers speeches and was inspired by them, he apparently knew German or was German or if he was American he was only 3-4 years old. At any rate, his story was full of holes.
Roark77 @ 57:
Yes, but Obama did.
And I suspect that loubie is a freeper. We shall know them by their talking points.
Dogglebobo says:
"I just found 2 more votes(making 53); being Obama and Clinton since neither voted
on this today….so we need to find seven(7) others in order to override a veto."
It's simple. Just figure out which of those who voted "nay" are up for re-election in November and start lobbying them big time!!! We need to run solid Progressives against the entire House and those in the Senate who are running for re-election anyhow! Might as well file as Independents tomorrow and start going after them!
Snowball @ 67:
Lobie can't be bothered with facts.
Doggiebobo @ 61:
I don't see where another seven votes can come from. I'm with the people that wonder why torture is a partisan issue but I can't see the R's switching their votes. God forbid they come off as weak on terror. They have better things to do then worry about torture or rights, like investigate steroids in baseball.
I'm just glad that Obama and Clinton both didn't vote. If only one had skipped the vote then the trolls would be overwhelmingly obnoxious about it.
Snowball @ 62:
Actually Snowy, the tide is turning. Women are beginning to get pissed at the Clinton slamming. The personal attacks etc. I was on the fence until I got bashed by an Obama supporter. I could not in all conscience vote for another candidate with such rabid supporters. Eight years of that was enough. I don't even go to KOS anymore or other sites.frequented by Hillhaters. Taylor Marsh notes a huge uptick in visiters since all this crap started. I predict a huge backlash if the over the top Obama supporters keep it up.
gregory @ 65:
Dude I've been coming here for years.
gregory @ 65:
I don't think so, not if it's the same Strawberry we know.
Abbybwood @ 68:
Would be just a "tad late"...veto will come BEFORE Nov. elections and we need to find seven
of the current "gang" to change their vote.
mudshark @ 73:
Thank you kind sir, here have a hanky.
Strawberrybitch @ 71:
If Hillary keeps on acting crooked and fake, then she has nobody to blame but herself.
Strawberrybitch@71
Um, those were likely trolls posing as Obama or Clinton supporters, don't be fooled. There's been an invasion of Liberal blogs lately of Republican activists pretending to be supporters of both candidates. Learn to know them by their talking points. If it comes straight out of the Corporate Media, is sexist or racist, it's not coming from a Democrat.
Strawberrybitch @ 75:
is this the same Strawberry from a long time ago?...ok, sorry but I have to ask
Strawberry had a physical ailment..............which would send her for a loop every now and then.
What is it?
McCain is the new flip-flopper. He was for it before he was against it, or he was for it before he decided it might be prudent to suck up to his conservative base, something he's become quite good at. So, someone please tell me why a 71 year old man would want to go through this kind of hell? His own party is crucifying him for God's sake. Is he the biggest masochist in the world or what?
danger @ 76:
seriously dude, site an example of something she ACTUALLY DID. I'm a poly sci junkie and I know the difference between playing hardball and saying someone is an ugly, fat ankled, old crusty bitch. Although the bitch part is a badge of honour to us uppity females.
Remember, his wife has a black baby. Kick him in the teeth, he'll come crawling back. McCain is a sad shell who will do anything the GOP want him to do. He should go home and get his 40 years of PTSD treated for once instead of subjecting himself upon the public sector.
Roark77 @ 70:
I just checked No. 31 above again(Votes cast by Senate members) and find that perhaps
there are two more "Aye" votes in addition to Clinton and Obama; being Dem. B. McCaskill
and Rep. L. Graham; neither whom voted today. Unfortunately, I see a maximum number
of Senators voting "correctly" being only 55, so if/when bush vetos this Bill, there certainly
does not appear that we can muster 60 votes to override the veto...so the Bill is probably
DEAD.
mudshark @ 78:
I thought it was ruptured discs, turns out it's degenerative disc disease, oh and I likey me my vino. Hey Muddy. Missed you guys.
I suggest retroactively checking out where the posters at HuffPo are coming from after we actually pick a nominee. Since you can look a poster's comment histories at HuffPo, I suspect that many of the over the top comments you now see there will reveal themselves when they finally come out in support of McCain.
Doggiebobo @ 82:
I have my doubts,but you're probably right.The incumbent repugs know their going to lose(some of them anyway) so they're going to give boosh anything he want's.
Strawberrybitch @ 83:
Hey Strawberry,How are you?Nice to see you again.I've been wondering about you.I hope your back is feeling better..missed you too.
mudshark @ 56:
In 2004 he was swiftboated by his on party in South Carolina!
Buhwaaaaaaaaaaa!
He kissed the ass of the Christian Taliban only to get kicked in the teeth!
Buhwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Leave him alooooone!!!!
I mean it too! Leave John McCain alone or you'll have me AND Mudshark to deal with!
Leave him alone now!!!!!
Snowball @ 77:
Um, those were likely trolls posing as Obama or Clinton supporters, don't be fooled. There's been an invasion of Liberal blogs lately of Republican activists pretending to be supporters of both candidates. Learn to know them by their talking points. If it comes straight out of the Corporate Media, is sexist or racist, it's not coming from a Democrat.
there is a strong scent of truth in that statment divide and rule is what they have always been about :)
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
I think you are wrong, depending on what you consider to be old.
From the CIA Factbook on the United States.
Age structure:
0-14 years: 20.2% (male 31,152,050/female 29,777,438)
15-64 years: 67.2% (male 100,995,752/female 101,365,035)
65 years and over: 12.6% (male 15,858,477/female 21,991,195) (2007 est.)
Median age:
total: 36.6 years
male: 35.3 years
female: 37.9 years (2007 est.)
getalife @ 9:
It's probably a bit heavier than that. McCain is not a maverick, straight shooter or moderate. He is a formula GOP'er that has assumed a false identity in order to promote himself. Obama can remain consistent with his "new" style of politics in illustrating the truth about McCain as in this effort he will be showing America what Mac is and not trying to falsely suggest he he what he is not. McCain is sure to employ the later technique against Obama. This race is sorting itself out nicely for the Democratic candidate. McCain can only win if he gets both the GOP base and a good percentage of independents and right leaning Democrats. I think most folks thought the approach on McCain should be to defray the GOP base. Not anymore. Let him have the 29 per centers. It's the rest of the folks that are going to get increasingly easier to pull over to the Democratic candidate. Wedge off the independents by simply illustrating the true John McCain ( with a lot of help from Mccain himself it seems) and this thing is in the bag.
mudshark @ 85:
Really sickening isn't it? And this issue of "torture" is supposedly not a partisan issue.
Ruthless People @ 87:
OH, poor baby, did he get a backbone-endectomy in that prison camp?
The repigs know they are dead in the water. Why do you think so many are retiring and not running for re election?
McCain is an asshole flip flopper and I hope like hell someone goes after him on this with everything they've got. He tries to run on the poor poor me, I was tortured bullshit and then condones it being done to others. McCain "confessed" under torture just like the ones bush is trying to put to death. Are they guilty? We will never know. Will someone ask McCain if he thinks HE should have been put to death for HIS torture confessions? I hate these people.
Saint Augustine @ 89:
And you are going to trust the Cocaine Import Agency?
Doggiebobo @ 91:
of course its not a partisan issue, its the corporations that the supply the water to the waterboarders not joe public ;)
mudshark @ 86:
Back needs disc replacements, insurance won't cover it. $95,000 smackaroonies. Sorry I haven't been around. I've been kinda busy. Some guy came back that sorta' looked like my husband in October, and I've had a hard time finding the real him. Drugs, doctors and therapy are helping but it's been a long haul. The primaries have offered me a chance to get away from the doctors, pills, appontments etc. Things are still crazy but at least the drugs are keeping him quiet. But hey, let us not talk about this crap, we need to get a Democrat in the Whitehouse!
this dick mccain will probably start a nuclear war if he gets a chance
to be president. and if LIEberman gets the chance he WILL push mccain into it.
Does anyone on this particular C&L Thread this evening(besides Mudshark, Roark, Chris Gamble and me)
realize that this Bill, tho passed today, is NOT going to become law because bush is going to veto it
and there are NOT enough votes to override such veto. Sure, we can all pick on McCain(and justifiably
so for his "Nay" vote), but there are exactly and precisely FORTY(40) other Repugs who voted likewise
and "they" will prevent this "temporary" Bill from becoming law.
John McCain was for Torture before he was against Torture.
dadams @ 97:
Gee, I thought his first name was John, like the toilette!
Strawberrybitch @ 96:
sounds like a richard gere/jodie foster summersby moment:)
did you try diazapam, worked wonders for my back problems::)
dadams @ 97:
I'm thinkin Lieberman will be his running mate.
which could backfire on his ass.I'm hoping.
Gekke @ 101:
With my husband on 4-5 different meds for PTSD, I can't let my gaurd down with diazapam (although God knows that sounds like the best way to deal with all this crap). He still does wacky things, even on such heavy meds.
Doggiebobo @ 98:
No use crying over spoiled milk, we must make sure to get honest reps in government to correct all the BS laws that have been put in place in the last 7, going on 8 years!
Donna Edwards is a good start!
Gekke @ 101:
Troy @ 99:
ummmm(I think you have that backwards Troy)...He was against it,now he says ....Well... OK.
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
I still say you're wrong:
http://www.census.gov/popest/national/asrh/NC-EST2006/NC-EST2006-01.xls
Dogglebobo says:
"Would be just a “tad late”…veto will come BEFORE Nov. elections and we need to find seven
of the current “gang” to change their vote."
I understand your point, although what I was suggesting is that we identify who is up for re-election in November and file papers NOW to run against them. This way you would not merely be some constituent to be ignored but a potential threat to their seat. You can file now as an Independent and issue a press release stating that the Senator's torture vote is one of several reasons you are running for his/her seat.
It's a whole new level of pressure when you can go to the media as a candidate and "give interviews" I think.
Strawberrybitch @ 103:
I understand that ideolgy, tiik me a while to eat one thinking these are crazy pills, and then one night the pain was so mad i just took one and slept like a baby :)
Roark77 @ 57:
Roark, I am of the belief that Clinton hasn't gotten much of a free ride on anything for about six months. (Chris Matthews, et al.)
You did not catch the context of my Kerry remark.
I believe that Obama will be shredded by the GOP attack machine. There's plenty of ammo there. I was pointing to past strategies such as Willie Horton, and when in 2004 they basically implied that Kerry lost Vietnam for us. (Swiftboats, remember?)
Clear?
Strawberrybitch @ 103:
that little blue pill worked wonders on my back,although I cant remember a week.mine blew out in my sleep in the middle of the night.you just have to watch out for taking too many,I lost track of when I was taking them.So....instead of taking one every 4-6 hrs,I was taking one every 2 hrs....yep I was out of it for a week.the coronas probably helped a bit.
The only TRUE tortured confession is extracted by us. Luckily McCain was tortured by "not us."
The old fart wants to be President so bad he has sold his worthless soul to the devil and to George Bush(basically the same).
Lafin gas: Check the Census Bureau figures if you don't like tke CIA estimates.
Strawberrybitch @ 72:
strawberry i warned you about them droppings!
Snowball @ 62:
Snowball, I've posted numerous things on this site that the media does not post about Obama. Obama-ites have often labeled me a turd, or troll, or whatever because they obviously have a problem with free speech and dissenting viewpoints. And only they get to call their competitors screwed up names.
I've stated that there is a creepiness to their ways.
I've harped previously about mob ties in Chi-town. But today, the subject is PACs.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists...
* Obama's eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
* Obama's US Senate campaign committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected $128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8 percent of what he has raised overall. Clinton's Senate committee, by comparison, has raised $3 million from PACs, 4 percent of her total amount raised, the group said.
* In addition, Obama's own federal PAC, Hopefund, took in $115,000 from 56 PACs in the 2005-2006 election cycle out of $4.4 million the PAC raised, according to CQ MoneyLine, which collects Federal Election Commission data. Obama then used those PAC contributions -- including thousands from defense contractors, law firms, and the securities and insurance industries -- to build support for his presidential run by making donations to Democratic Party organizations and candidates around the country.
Hippocrate in a pretty suit.
Doggiebobo @ 98:
True dat on all that.
Only thing: the other R's aren't running for Prez(tles)
And really, there was a time before '06 that I was hoping that Dems would change things around. Now I barely have any hope for '08 (even though I know we'll get the election)
mudshark @ 78:
tennis elboe!
Nice to have you back Strawberry.....see ya soon....
Snowball @ 62:
Snowball, I've spent quite some time on this site pointing out things that the MSM does not point out about Obama because, I believe, they think they can help the Repubs sink him come September and October.
Obama suppoters have called me turd, troll and whatever else, as they obviously have a problem with freedom of speech and a different viewpoint. They obviously are the only ones entitled to make up funny names for their competitors.
I've harped often on Obama's Chi-town mob ties.
Today, the subject is PAC-man.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists...
Obama's eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
Obama's US Senate campaign committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected $128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8 percent of what he has raised overall. Clinton's Senate committee, by comparison, has raised $3 million from PACs, 4 percent of her total amount raised, the group said.
In addition, Obama's own federal PAC, Hopefund, took in $115,000 from 56 PACs in the 2005-2006 election cycle out of $4.4 million the PAC raised, according to CQ MoneyLine, which collects Federal Election Commission data. Obama then used those PAC contributions -- including thousands from defense contractors, law firms, and the securities and insurance industries -- to build support for his presidential run by making donations to Democratic Party organizations and candidates around the country.
Seems like a con man in a prety suit. But what do I know of facts?
I apologize if one of my comments reposted. I didn't show up at first and I re-wrote.
loubie @ 122:
AAAAAAAAeaaaaaaaaeeeeeaAAAaaAARRRRRRRRRrrGH!!!#$!#$!!
HULK SMASH!!!!!!!
I was against torture before I was for it - John McCain 2008
Before we all start talking about a slam dunk against McCain, let's remember that we still have to get past the very real possibility (and Republican wetdream) of a brokered convention. If the superdelegates go against the popular vote and pledged delegates then it's not impossible to think that a lot of young and independent voters would turn away from the party. That would be a disaster, unless people think those demographics aren't important (and apparently some do).
loubie @ 122:
People don't label you a troll when you use facts and figure that you want to show. It's when you pull the Swift Boat style tactic of using a logical fallacy that you present as truth. Calling Obama "O-mob-a" is an example of that (not to mention the kind of namecalling that you claim to hate when people to it to Clinton). You're right that the Repubs are going to love tearing into Obama but I still think they have a special place in their heart for attacking anyone named Clinton. The only thing I dislike Clinton for (besides a few points in her voting record) is that she's touted by the DLC, which I don't particularly care for and I tend to agree with Dean that they're the "Republican wing of the Democratic party."
Anyone remember the anti-torture essay McAngst wrote? I think it was in Time last year. He went on and on about how torture was ineffective. Under duress, he said that the only names he gave up were the names of Green Bay Packer linemen. What are we to conclude now John-boy? The Christian Wrong throws its weight around, and you break just like a little girl (just felt like throwing in a Dylan quote; I think little girls and boys are equally fragile).
(Sorry if the essay got mentioned earlier, but I'm #124. Besides, looks like the thread jumped to the Dem primary.)
(Ok, # 127. So sue me, I'm a slow typer.) LOL
What a scuzzball.
Strawberrybitch @ 98:
Hi Strawberry, you have been missed.
There is this thing about this site that makes it a community. Even some of the trolls are family. ( I loves me trolls :) ).
This statement is directed at C&L.
Strawberry needs a disc in her back, it costs a lot of money that she does not have. She is dealing with what her husband has gone through and what we have all been fighting to stop.
We can't directly help Strawberry's husband, but we could raise the money for her operation. She has been posting here for a long time. Can we please have a fundraiser for this?
McCain (probably related to McAbel) has to believe torture works, for he probably told everything he knew to north Viet Nam, so he he beleives it works, in other words he spilt his guts, most likely
Poor Grampa can't even remember his position on his key issue?
Is anyone sending this sad, old clown some Senior Moment supplements?
Does this old (apologies to my grandparents) goat McCain actually think for himself? I doubt he has the mental capability to actually have brain cells that actually work.
He has lost all ability to think straight, I expect Obama and Clinton to have a field day throwing this in his face. If the Democrats lose this election they should give up forever, its there for the taking. And Bush hasnt started campaigning for the ancient idiot yet, that will really be something to see and hear.
is being the president so important as to totally sell your soul?
its sad to watch a man totally destroy himself over a period of 8 years, just for a job
this is a very sad day for our country
i want to see him defend this position during the debates....he cant do it
if he uses the 24 scenario, he is dead in the water
Abbybwood @ 61:
Obama (D-IL), Not Voting
Obama is a professional campaigner. Worst "not voting" record for a first termer - ever. I can't vote for him.
gregory @ 67:
Nope. Hilary went dirty today. Baiting Obama to do sit down debates because she does not have the money to run ads.
"We Don't torture."
- John McCain, then
"Like I said, we do not torture. So how would it hurt voting in favour? I mean, its not like we're doing it. It's like voting to support dancing with chickens. No-one does it, but hey it's good to know we can. That's what makes America great! Er, right?"
- John McCain, now?
Strawberry, sorry didn't know you were known here. Hope you feel better.
.
What John McCampaign meant to say was:
"IT'S NOT TORTURE WHEN AMERICA DOES IT?"
So John,
Are you ready to talk about how you enjoyed being TOUTURED during Nam, again?
Was it worth it? Would you do it all over again? It was a vacation from the combat zone... Right?
.
L.A. Confidential @ 31:
But will those House Democrats demand that Bush prove his facts?
Or will they buy into Bush's hypothetical reasoning based on assertions and presumptions formulated through potentialities and possibilities of what a person is capable of or not?
.
Snowball @ 17:
Ought we take back America first?
Isn't this why we are in such a bind?
Loyalty to a Party?
If the GOP didn't guide us here by that rote methodology, already these last 10 years...
Then I can not endorse that EXACT SAME METHODOLOGY the Democratic Party is espousing.
IT. IS. DEVISIVE.
It pits superiority of one Party above another, subjugating it's victim.
Instead of Liberating Americans from this said TYRANNY wrought upon America this last decade,
The Democratic Party turned to Bi-Partisanship. Another word for COMPROMISE!
And what exactly is COMPROMISED when both Parties, in the good faith of Bi-Partisanship,
Sell out our written Freedoms and Liberties that were entrusted into our Congress hands?
[/rant][/truth]
Sure, I know the "system" and how it currently functions.
I'm not blind, I know the difficulties ahead.
But really...
What do you get when you vote for the lesser of two evils,
But the continuation of evil... just a bit less of it... NO?
.
.
Odd that the top two Democratic Presidential candidates, who happen to both be in the Senate currently, together, couldn't make it to the resolution vote?
I mean, short of playing this "ABSENT" vote by both of them so as to allow for an open debate between the two of them,
DO NOT FORGET, the vote occurred; the records written; when the vote mattered for their Constituents, they were "ABSENT" in their faithful representation.
I, for one, would like to know why.
How are they supporting and defending the Constitution by being "ABSENT"?
.
You'll still find a few imbeciles who'll vote for this putz! That's even sadder!
McCain is a disgrace. Voting against his convictions sucking up to the far right just to get elected. I rooted for him when he confronted flipflopper extraordinaire Romney on torture at the CNN debate. But McCain even outflipflopped Romney with this vote. And the Obama and Clinton novotes are very dissapointing.
A message for All Talk McCain from the Hives. Walk Idiot Walk!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsazuAL1J70
So sad. 5 years in the jungle and couldn't be broken - one generation in congress and he's the biggest panderer out there. Bush & Rove crushed him in 2000 and he still is friendly with them. I don't know what's wrong with him really.
He wants the presidency so bad that he'd waterboard his wife and mother!
Hell, if he thought it would accomplish anything, he'd waterboard ANYONE (except himself of course)!
One who will desperately sell themselves out to get the job doesn't deserve it and should be stopped from getting it. Yeah, he's an 'old guy' thats wanted to be president for a while but being a "weird old coot with a short fuse" shouldn't be qualifications to put him "in the White House" and neither should the fact that he probably wouldn't outlast his first term...
why the big suprise ? ,
Viet Nam vets call him by his " tortured " name , SONGBIRD , given to him by charlie .
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
Cons may have to steal? That's the only way the how they win.
Make a note under "pandering" for use in the general election. This has got to be the most egregious example ever. The only truly moral stand McCain takes on anything and he caves for a couple of votes from the right wing nuts.
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