This is what happens.

Been there, done that. I came back fro Vietnam a mess and remained one for many years. This is a great tragedy. Many of my combat friends have said in passing " the lucky guys are the ones that do not come back"..sad.

Thanks Nicole. PTSD is a wily bastard and shows up in the most fucked up ways. I still feel like I've been blindsided.

that is a most excellent presentation of PTSD> Unfortunately, the Social Security Administration has created a PTSD diagnosis for me. America seems to be very good at traumatizing it's citizens. In my case, the SSA refused to accept their own court award of disability because I worked with my disability for eleven years. It's a lifelong chronic illness but they were discriminatory in their assessment of my true condition. My stress is ongoing and unrelieved.
I can empathize with the vets.

I'm Viet Vet. My PTSD didn't come up until this government went into another unnecessary war. Now I've lost my partner of 14 years, I have only 2 friends to my name and the only crowds I can go into are anti-war protests. That's the only place my rage and anger are appropriate. No work and nothing to look forward to.
These boys and girls having 2, 3, 4 tours have seen more combat then my lousy 13 months in Nam. Some of them will have their lives ruined by this experience some 30 years from now. Nice work Republicans.

I can't even watch this .. it makes me so mad.

I've been writing about this for years. IN comment sections, in my diary at DailyKos, Operation Yellow Elephant, and called in to progressive talk shows. I've used various hooks to get my point across like this one on OYE
OYE,
and here and here at DailyKos

I know this issue, I lived this issue - I wrote this on DailyKos 2/06/08

The Republicans have long held up the banner that taxes are OUR money and we should decide what to do with it. We did decide, pay for the physical and mental health of veterans.

So what? Are they now throwing down their false banner and showing the actual comtempt they have for everyone but the rich?

And what happens to those veterans AND their families when these vets do not get the mental health care they deserve - mental health care that they need since they've been stressed more than other troops with multiple tours

Veterans have no legal right to specific types of medical care, the Bush administration argues in a lawsuit accusing the government of illegally denying mental health treatment to some troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

You want to talk about family values Mr. and Ms Selfish and Heartless Republican . . . do you know how those issues of deep, entrenched PTSD are handled inside the family?

More domestic violence
More abuse of children
More soliders committing suicide - more families in pain

YOu say you value the family and life so oput up or shut up . . . YOU CAUSED THEIR MENTAL PROBLEMS - you are responsibile for what happens to them and their families!!!!!!!!!

(my exhusband was a Vietnam vet. Our marriage ended due to his violence due to under treated and un treated PTSD.)

As I said I lived this with my Viet Nam vet, now deceased ex-husband. We didn't know about this for warfs prior to Nam and we knew prious little after Nam and still those Vets were denied.

I always believed my ex could have had a much healthier and happier life if he had gotten proper treatment for PTSD.

But now there is no excuse for lack of full and timely treatment. The only reason that can be accepted for not is continued use, abuse and contempt for our soliders and vets. And these vets are coming home worse then ever - and this government, like all Republican governments, lets our disabled vets down.

This is so nightmarish, 2005, 2006 and 2007 I felt like a small voice on this issue. I knew and know it will blow up big.

@ 11

Veterans have no legal right to specific types of medical care, the Bush administration argues in a lawsuit accusing the government of illegally denying mental health treatment to some troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

That was a quote inside a quote. These were not my words but from
"Veterans - all their benefits are mere gratuities
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/6/4255/66269/667/450891

Required Reading: Smedley Butler "War Is A Racket"

http://www.doublestandards.org/butler1.html

Dang Canuck...a little harsh...but true nonetheless. ;)
But, having the most expensive military in the world doesn't give our "leaders" a blank check for unlimited death and destruction. Which, of course you know, I'm sure. America's current (mis)administration seem to be hungry for war, since never having been in battle, they wouldn't know the grisly reality of it. All they see is a means of getting rid of old ordinance, and making BILLIONS of the taxpayers backs.
Ethics and morals are meer speedbumps, impediments in the way of becoming even more filthy rich...They don't give a damn about our troops, and especially don't give a damn about the poor civilians who are dying every day. And they damn sure don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Might makes right.
War is a business to these people.

These kinds of articles make me so very angry. Angry because i know that the Cheney/Halliburton/stockholder response is:

"So???"

War criminals, every one of the Bush/Cheney regime.

Canuck

Have you ever heard of the draft? I have.

canuck@10
What do they think they're getting into? You mean when the recruiters come to your poor rural town with all of their sexy video games and stories about flying jets and rappeling down mountains and oh, by the way, did I mention the free education that might get you out of this shit factory town.

Dave
My father-in-law's PTSD resurfaced when this war started,too. It is a horrible thing. Get yourself some treatment, man, you are worth it.

You posters certainly enlightened me. Like I said, I might seem brash, and if I do I apologize. I understand there are circumstances where one has no choice (sorry Dave about the draft), but now I have a question about your loyalties though. How can you stay so loyal to a nation that has done this to you, and think changing political leadership is going to make any damn difference, when BOTH parties leaders have done this to their citizens? How can anyone be patriotic, with this shit? I am just thankful I'm not in this situation and glad I wasn't born American. I'd hate to have to be coerced into doing military for the reasons you people have given.

ConcernedCanuck @ 25:

You posters certainly enlightened me. Like I said, I might seem brash, and if I do I apologize. I understand there are circumstances where one has no choice (sorry Dave about the draft), but now I have a question about your loyalties though. How can you stay so loyal to a nation that has done this to you, and think changing political leadership is going to make any damn difference, when BOTH parties leaders have done this to their citizens? How can anyone be patriotic, with this shit? I am just thankful I'm not in this situation and glad I wasn't born American. I'd hate to have to be coerced into doing military for the reasons you people have given.

I am an american, but I feel this same way. The problem is education. It's a volunteer military, but most of the people who join aren't doing so because they're neocon republicans who believe in world domination. They're poor kids, black, white, and latino, who want to get ahead, and see the military as the only way to get through college or find a job. They might be brainwashed while they're in there to be more republican-leaning, and there's no doubt that they still have the choice to leave it. But that's a hard thing for them to do after being indoctrinated. I mourn them, but sometimes I get sick of hearing about just OUR soldiers and their PTSD and lost limbs, and not the thousands of Iraqis who have suffered the same. There are so many more of them, and all we care about is getting our guys home? Either way, we all agree it's the bastards at the top who are to blame. I'm not a big believer in God, but the part of me that does hopes there is one so he'll send those assholes straight to hell.

@ #25:

There's no guarantee that when you join the military that you'll be serving under a competent political leadership, any more than taking a job in the civilian world means you get a boss you like.

Admittedly, it's also unfair - the military tends to be an option for those who can't afford college on their own, or through academic scholarships. The only reason Bush has National Guard service to his credit is that they wanted to ship his arse off to the 'Nam, and he didn't have 'different priorities' or a pilonidal cyst.

we can and should do all we can to support the troops, but as
long as there is a delusional bastard bush president with
a worse bastard cheney vp, we will be fighting an uphill battle.

bush/cheney DO NOT CARE about the troops, they never did.

Dave @ 9:

I'm Viet Vet. My PTSD didn't come up until this government went into another unnecessary war. Now I've lost my partner of 14 years, I have only 2 friends to my name and the only crowds I can go into are anti-war protests. That's the only place my rage and anger are appropriate. No work and nothing to look forward to.
These boys and girls having 2, 3, 4 tours have seen more combat then my lousy 13 months in Nam. Some of them will have their lives ruined by this experience some 30 years from now. Nice work Republicans.

I can relate to what you have gone through as I kept buried a lot of what I experienced when I was in Vietnam. I saw a VA counselor about six months ago and it was like going form the frying pan into the fire. I made the mistake of being honest with this woman by telling her that I felt quite guilty for not disobeying the orders that I was given, which then contributed to the deaths of many innocent Vietnamese people. I also said that I also felt quite bad for not speaking out against the war when I returned to this country. After I told her this, she then, for some inexplicable reason, tried to make me feel perhaps 100 times more guilty than I already feel by asking me why I did not become a conscientious objector or why I did not flee to Canada.

I became so angry at the treatment that I had received from this counselor that I wrote letters to the governor and senator of my state, explaining to them what I had gone through with this woman. I did not hear from the governor but the senator wrote back to me, bizarrely thanking me for my interest in mental health counseling! I was hoping that this woman would be barred from working with other veterans, because other veterans who might not be as strong as I am, relatively speaking, to deal with her advice, might lash out at others or themselves in anger at the bizarre counseling that they would have received from this foolish woman.

On another issue, Watertown, N.Y has the only coffehouse that is located by the military base in that city, which enables military personnel to vent their feelings against the occupation in a safe environment. The hope is that more coffeehouses like this one will spread across the country, as these coffeehouses proved to be a thorn in the side of the military during the Vietnam War, and were one of the main reasons for the success of the GI movement during that time period. If more of these coffeehouses do manage to finally spring up, perhaps more soldiers, both in and out of Iraq, will write on their helmets the message that was seen in the film Sir! No Sir!, which focused on the GI resistance- ARMY SUCKS.

Shadowgm @ 34:

@ #32:

Unless you're a Buddhist, it's doubtful your life is free of inflicting human suffering. Furthermore, suffering comes in forms other than killing and maiming. Sometimes it comes from a politician thinking torture is good and necessary to save lives, or that blocking health insurance for children is standing firm against socialized medicine.

An anti-abortion activist sees their work as preventing suffering; a pregnant, teenage mother might object the emotional abuse of their 'protests'.

You're also making the assumption that our troops have done nothing but opened fire on Iraqis in some perverted shooting gallery, or that people join the military solely because they like playing with guns and watching arterial spray.

If anything, the lesson is that even the purest of motives (freedom, deposing a dictator) is not without consequence .... and we're finding out the hard way.

These are professional killers. That is extreme. These arent aid workers. Aid workers I would respect.

Also, western materialism is largely at fault here. I reject it as well.

I am not a buddhist.

You miss the salient point - they are TROOPS. Do you know what troops are? Dont misscharacterize them.

I reject your - you cant avoid breaking eggs - point of view. They were THERE to break eggs. They were NOT there to make an omlette.

They are warmakers NOT peacemakers.

This blame the troops blather is sickening. This is not what they volunteered for. Period. Somebody made a good analogy of the military to a knife. It isn't the volunteer military's fault that a neocon cabal has decided to waste that fine edged instrument by misusing it to dig a hole in the sand so it is incapable of performing its reason for existing in the first place: defense of this country's borders and citizens. Be glad that there is someone willing, not eager, willing to kill to defend you when required. But more important than killing, I can guarantee you that with few rare exceptions, all of those soldiers you think you are so morally superior to are willing to DIE in defense of their country and to protect their loved ones and fellow citizens. I don't know which is the bigger shame; that corrupt politicians exploit that willingness to sacrifice on something other than true defense of our citizens, or that people like anon@32 don't understand and appreciate the sacrifices that others make so they don't have to. If I may paint with the same broad brush used on our volunteer military here, every last U.S. citizen is ultimately just as responsible as any member of our armed forces for the senseless killing in Iraq.

Welcome home, Dave and Erroll.

Kathy Dobie has written two pieces relevant to these questions of PTSD recently:

A piece about a Vietnam vet whose suppressed PTSD emerged with the onset of the war in Iraq: The Long Shadow of War
As a young soldier in Vietnam, Cecil Ison saw something, something so horrific that he buried the memory of it for thirty years and swore he’d never allow it to surface again. Then, on March 20, 2003—the day after we started bombing Iraq—the past lept up and grabbed him
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_6250

and

Denial in the Corps
Kathy Dobie
The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080218/dobie

(I do know the author but that doesn't mean these aren't important pieces.)

My husband began his military service as an 18-year-old paratrooper in the 101st Airborne in WW II. He served in France, Holland, and in the Battle of the Bulge, where he was wounded. When he was returned to the US with wounds after Germany's surrender, he was scheduled to be sent to the Pacific. Luckily for him, Japan's surrender after the atomic bomb attacks ended the war.

We were married about 12 years after war's end. My dear one suffered from post traumatic stress syndrome, jerking into wakefulness whenever a plane broke the sound barrier.

When I built a low rock wall in front of our country home, he was concerned that it would provide cover for snipers. I was surprised but said, "Honey, if you like we will pack dynamite into the wall, run wires to the house and, in time of trouble, blow the wall and those behind it."

"OK", my darling replied, much relieved.

His life was damaged by the second world war--but at least he never felt the guilt of an unlawful, horrid war for oil, such as we have now engaged in.

Tim in Japan @ 38:

Thank you Nicole.
I have PTSD.
It cost me my job in the Navy after 14 1/2 years because so few really understand it and treat it as "malingering."
So now, I have federal job in Japan where I barely make enough money to qualify for Japanese low income housing.
My 7 year old daughter is afraid of me.
My co-workers are very distant because they see me as a time-bomb waiting to go off.
My wife only stays with me because she would feel guilty about dumping me during my greatest time of need.
I've lost almost every friend I have because...well, because I'm crazy. I can break down crying at any moment.
I haven't wanted to live in so long that I cannot remember what it's like anymore.
I pray daily for God to take me. I just don't want to live.
Every little insecurity and frailty I once had has grown exponentially.

Yeah, I wish I would have been washed overboard and never came back.

I'm sorry to dump this on C&L and it's readers, but I just hurt so fucking bad and I don't know where to turn.

You have a friend crying with you, Tim. I'm so sorry that you're going through that, and I don't know what resources are available to you in Japan to get help. It has now been 35 years since my father in law's last mission in country. He is still haunted by his experiences. But he is of a generation that did not seek help.

I beg of you, for your sake and for your family's, please find some help. Your daughter deserves her daddy. Let us know if there's anything we can do.

Shadowgm @ 24:

@ #10:

Just because I have an expensive German chef's knife honed to precision sharpness doesn't mean I use it to cut everything from meat to wood blocks. Similarly, the effectiveness of America's military is closely tied to its efficient use.

It is not infinite in numbers, or in equipment. Both require maintenance and proper supply. Both are useless in the absence of a clear mission, or in the face of one which they cannot accomplish. (The stated goal is that our troops are there to buy time for Iraqis to achieve political reconciliation - however, as long as there is open conflict on the streets, it is a sign that there not only isn't any reconciliation, there's no movement towards such ... because the insurgents aren't likely to put up their guns and IEDs just because a bunch of suits in parliament say so. Also, there's no motivator for the Iraqi parliament to achieve a solution.)

As for the effects of stress on one's mental state, it's not just a bunch of sudden converts to conscientious objector status - it's the cost of always having to be on alert, always on the go, always a heartbeat away from getting your arse blown up.
For example, I'm in the television news biz. 9/11 hits, and never mind that I was supposed to train someone new to replace me, everyone goes into overdrive - writers, editors, reporters, producers - I could tell you exactly where to find a specific shot of the towers, on which tape.

After three days, there's so much video that this is now impossible. Tempers are fraying, even though people are working normal hours and the network is still carrying the brunt of our programming. Suddenly, people start calling in sick - because on top of all of it, the shock and horror of 9/11, we've had to work through it and around it. But we're professionals - this is the industry and business we have chosen to work in - so we keep at it. The only other option is to quit, and that means finding an entirely new job - the news will be the same at any other station, in any other state.

And 9/11 was everywhere - I would normally go to the gym after work, but suddenly all the televisions were on news coverage, everyone was talking about 9/11, 9/11, 9/11. "Oh, you work in news? What's it like with 9/11?"

It eventually took more than a month before I managed to train my replacement, due to the operational necessity of needing the guy who knew the job rather than someone who was new to the shop.

Now, do a little extrapolation. We're losing soldiers at an incredible rate. Each one of them is a trained specialist in something - communications, weapons, field medicine, whatever. Our 'strategy' of wishful thinking isn't just blunting their edge, it's grinding it down to uselessness. Corporal X gets killed, and Corporal Y replaces him, but now he's either doing TWO jobs, or we have to replace Corporal Y's original position. But the troops' professionalism won't let them stop or slow down; they're committed to attempting the mission, even if it's a complete FUBAR. And they don't have the option of quitting.

It's not just bombs and bullets that cause PTSD.

Thank you for your rational insight and analogies. I get so sick of hearing the argument that "you volunteered, so you can't complain about getting sent over there". Fact is, many of us joined before the Iraq war started (I'm one of them). I thought I was joining for a very noble cause- to be a medic and help my fellow man. I was given a promise that I'd be taken care of and my service would be honored. I didn't know I would be used to fight in what I believe to be an unjust and illegal war. It's a conflict of morality and ethics with many of us, and once your world view has been shattered in this way it takes a very heavy toll on the psyche. I have to live with the fact that I took part in the destruction of a nation and the killing of countless innocent lives. I ask myself every day why we are being used in this capacity, and for more than 4 years now, I can't find many answers. The reason we have so many service members suffering from PTSD, drug and alcohol abuse, divorces, suicide, etc. is because we feel our service has been betrayed and we have been abandoned by the very nation we swore an oath to protect. We come back feeling like strangers to our families our homes. We have very few places to turn, and we face an overburdened, understaffed, and underfunded system to get the help we need. That, coupled with the pervasive negative stigma around mental health care in the military, puts the troops under intense stress and leaves them feeling very isolated.

We need to stop focusing on treating only the symptoms. In the medical field, that is called palliative care and is usually resorted to in cases of terminal illness when no cure is possible and one is only being treated to alleviate pain while they die. We need to understand this issue in a holistic sense, by focusing on preventative medicine and treating the disease itself, not just alleviating the symptoms of the disease. The military has been approaching this problem completely backwards, and must learn to address the causes before the consequences. As a nation, this means not sending our troops into harm's way unless it is an absolute last resort and for a cause that is just. In our communities, this means reaching out to returning service members and offering them a supportive environment where they can receive proper health care without feeling like a burden on the system. Sticking a yellow ribbon on your bumper may make you feel good, but it's a disingenuous and patronizing message that really doesn't mean anything. It's time to step up and seriously address the Big Picture here: as long as this war goes on, we will continue to fall apart. It has done nothing to strengthen us as a nation, and it is failing every one of us. Wake up America.