Jonathan Hoenig: 'I think the employer has the right to discriminate.'
By John Amato Sunday Feb 17, 2008 4:45pm
In my continuing series on the FOX Saturday stock shows, Jonathan Honeig is back.
The CapitalistPig and FOX's stock show rock star from Cashin' In, does what he does best. Act like an insane Republican free market--tax cutting---New Deal hating---super hawk and attack all things Democratic. The topic was should employers be able to fine employees for bad health habits.
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Hoenig: ...but Vikki I think the employer has the right to discriminate. They offer a trade, the employee can take it or leave it. Get in a discussion of rights, then absolutely the employer has the right to fire an employee for any reason.
The employer has the right to hire and fire whoever he wants, whether they are smoker, whether they are fat, whether they are Jewish or Black.
Vikki: No, no, no, no, then we're talking about discrimination. You cannot determine if you're not going to hire someone based on sex, creed or color. That's ridiculous.
In this clip he says that his Almighty---Corporations---should be able to fire an employee anytime, anywhere and without cause. It would appear that he longs for the days of the late 1800's, with child labor, sweat shops and eighteen hour wok days. What's ridiculous is that no other panel members or the host thought The Pig's idea was that out of whack except for Vikki Ziegler and Wayne Rogers, who brought up genetics as a defense against being overweight. Email Jonathan and ask if you can send him your resume. He'd sure make a good boss...
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If it was legal to fire the offspring of brother/sister unions, Hoenig would be jobless.
I say that employers should provide health care coverage, and reward people with assistance for better lifestyle. But I know that such a program from the work force will enable employers to start profiling people for discrimination. That another reason for national healthcare so that employers don't decide to start a fascist company.
This guy is full of shit. Isn't he the same one who laughs off global warming? He's a flame thrower so the others on the show will look a little more sane.
They'd love to be able to fire people for bad health habits -- unless the health risks come with job, like coal mining, for instance. In that case you're welcome to stay as long as you are able-bodied -- a good 30 years in some cases.
But that's the way it operates in many, maybe most, US workplaces: employers can fire you for any reason - if their real reason is too volatile from a legal standpoint, they make up reasons so that you can't fight back. And most people in the US don't have the money to sue their employers for wrongful termination anyway, so US employers get away with firing people for unethical reasons all the time. My guess is that most Americans think that's just the way it is, and probably hope they're one day in a position to behave the same way. They don't know that it's not like that everywhere in the world, that there are places where workers have many more rights than here.
Hoenig insists that we accept that 2008 is 1958.
Where are the reich-wingers to defend this insanity?
You gotta hand to Fox News. At least they hire the handicapped. Mentally, that is.
This Hoenig guy really is full of shit. If an employer fired HIM because he was Jewish, he'd fire back with a lawsuit faster than you can say "sue for cash". But that's par for the course for the wing nuts. I got mine, screw you! And for some reason Hoenig always gets the last word on each segment. Why is that? Because his fascist mind set in right in line with the ultra-right wing producers of the worthless propaganda regurgitated by Faux News.
What a loser.
i agree to some extent. If you don't want to quit smoking, a business should not have to pay for your insurance costs if you won't even help yourself. Same goes for the obese. but fuck him for thinking that you can be fired over your religion. Now.. if you are a muslim working in a convenience store and don't want to sell alcohol, I have just as much sympathy for you as the christian pharmacist who doesn't want to dispense morning after pill. both of you need to shutthefuckup and get back to work.
Ah yes, the punitive NeoCons.
My company, love it or leave it.
He's right because A. If your fat I'm going to have to pay for it down the road in health benefits, so if I was an employer why should I deal with this. and B. its the employers company!, why should someone take all the risk and work of building a company and not be able to hire and fire whom he/she wants! I've seen it before, can't get rid of terrible workers because of Unions. Hell were I work now they have to give you a ONE YEAR NOTICE!!
thats one year of inefficient production because of what?
FOX News is totally trying to steal Colbert and Stewart's market!
VietVet8666 @ 6:
No, Hoenig wishes it was 1858. He probably fantasizes about being a slave master.
In that clip it took a minute and a half before someone corrected his discriminatory views.
Only on Faux!
You forgot in the article to mention that this is Hillary Clinton's son and that Obama's financial dealings and slumlording has all been on the up and up.
I take it this guy leads a secure life in some gated community safe house isolated from the hordes of people who would like to tear his limbs off one by one for screwing them over.
Most employees can already be fired for any reason.
I agree with this proposition:
You want to start a company. You've got a good idea. You want to hire some employees who can help you implement and sell your idea, and make a profit.
You want to hire employees who can help advance your objectives, and to lure them, you offer health benefits.
So far, so good. But then you hire someone overweight who turns out to have diabetes and some other problems that cost you $500,000 in health care costs.
My suggestion: Think more carefully about how you want to achieve your goal. Otherwise, suck it up.
We can only hope that GOP spokesman, Jonathan Hoenig, gets as much airtime as possible in order to spread the word that the GOP supports allowing employers to discriminate against their employees.
Good luck Jonnie. Get that word out! We're counting on you!
What a circus.
Unfortunately, most employment is at will, and you can be fired for no cause whatsoever. That being said, it is ridiculous to say that you can fire someone BECAUSE they are black, Jewish, etc. Title VII bars this. The "almighty corporation" however can fire anyone, at any time, for any reason so long as it doesn't offend a major public policy (which is a difficult burden for an employee to show). So, unless an employee has negotiated out of an at will contract, they can be fired.
As far as bad health habits, that's a little trickier because there is no law that says you can't discriminate on the basis of bad habits. I'll look up the law and get back.
He kind of looks like a monkey.
Sweet Jebus in a speedo..that freak just made me feel dirty for even listening to his blather. Wotta tool. I have to go shower now.
Tim in Japan @ 18:
I think you're right. Is it me, or are the wingnuts getting more extreme as the rest of the country rejects their extremism?
This is typical of a type of citizen that this country has spawned since Reagan took office in 1981. They're everywhere, like a cancer. Greedy, vicious little people.
It's a national disgrace.
Spock @ 21:
He also kind of looks like that "Girls Gone Wild" slimeball.
Keep in mind hedge fund managers do not have to make any of their operations open to public view, so that neither the investors nor any regulating authority knows what they are actually doing. It's an unregulated racket.
So Murdochs choice of using this guy as an expert on employer-employee relations comes as no shock.
sangemon @ 24:
Agree, both as to second sentence, but also as to the point in time this all started.
sangemon @ 24:
Although I would never do it. Guys like this still give me an urge to wring their necks. Plunging their head into a toilet bowl would be a better choice.
OMG! He even looks like a brunette Ann Coulter.
The true beauty behind this guy is that he says stuff like this during an election year. Are GOP spokespeople so stupide that they haven't figured out that there are more employees than employers?
But, hey, I'm more than happy to give him as much airtime as possible.
chris @ 11:
I'll bet HonePIG probably doesn't probably have a business that employes people. But if he does why don't you go to work for him. It sounds like a match made in hebbin!
Oh and I'll bet he doesn't have a union agreement either, and it seems that you have never worked in a union contract either.
You guys deserve each other, Send him a resume, he might want someone that he can piss on.
I think we have a new candidate for the real life Alfred E. Newman.
so clueless... so sad!
jonathan has had his head up his ass so long his jowls are filling up.
wft, this guy would sing a different story if he wasn't such a bigoted racists
Rusty Shackleford @ 25:
I used to have a dog that looked like him, with a bunched up nose, he used to chase cars!
ciantgock @ 9:
Hmmmm.You mean if I am a smoker and I need my gall bladder removed too bad for Me? How bout if I run a stop sign and need life-saving medical help too bad for Me? The issue is discrimination and the slippery slope that it creates.
Barney Google @ 1:
he was a butthole baby or was it the afterbirth lived instead.
That guy looks like he should be bagging groceries at a Winn-Dixie.
Obviously, health insurance costs are too high or this wouldn't be a big topic. That said, I think it's ridiculous to say you won't cover someone who smokes, is overweight --- and, BTW, what about drinking. Why wasn't that brought up?
What I like is how no one mentioned age. Because, between that and pregnancy, that is where you really run into costs. Maybe they should be able to fire someone as soon as they hit their 50th birthday. That'll keep their insurance costs down. Since the Fox audience is 60+, I'm sure they didn't want to bring this up.
Well these are the guys who we can thank for the sub prime fiasco and mortgage-backed securities debacle among others things.
Fox loves showcasing Crooks
Dear sir, Jonathan Honeig,
I need a job. I'm not fat, I don't smoke, I have a healthy heart, I'm straight, white, intelligent, and a liar.
I really need a job and since we have so much in common I thought I'd try.
Sincerely,
Mark thepoetryman
"...all that mamby-pamby stuff..."
that woman was the most frightening of them all.
The Financial Whiz Kids who've managed to send the country off the cliff into the dump.
These people are the very reason we now wittiness the millions and millions of people coming out all over this country to vote.
We are so dame tired of American corporations and media, who spew this garbage all over our networks, day after day. We have the same incompetent old dogs running from show to show, network to network, with the same old bull shit like this ass hole justifying discrimination, bigotry and hatred for the very people who make them successful.
When cable TV, first came on line, it was free and now I am witnessing bills as high as $200 a month and the worst is that we don't get to choose who and what we look at but are forced to endure the daily trash that has been so damaging to the citizens of this country. These are the same ass holes that deliberately mislead us into the Iraq invasion, they sit and discriminate against people of color and refuse to provide any kind of meaningful excess, without close monitoring of what we can and will say, because they know dame well it will be far different then the bull shit they are feeding us, so they will purchase a few Negroes to carefully present the corporate message that has just devastated, not just blacks but this entire country.
These evil corporate bastards that have been appointed to the FCC, who is supposed to be working in the best interest of the American viewer has just given us the finger and intends to allow this kind of shit to prevail.;
This is the reason American people are behind Senator Obama to be the next President of the United States. He is about one of the last hopes of cleaning this kind of shit up, because you will not find any campaign donations from Rupert Murdock in his till and there for he will not owe these silly bastards anything but the pleasure of kicking them in the ass and shutting violators of media down.
VietVet8666 @ 17:
Or develop a decent health care system.
I'm not sure what the problem is that people have with punishing workers (via either pay cuts or outright termination) for poor health habits. This isn't a question of invidious prejudice or trying to suppress a disadvantaged minority; in fact, quite a few middle-aged white males, the antithesis of "diversity," are overweight or obese, or smoke, or drink to excess. The debates about at-will employment of unhealthy workers vs. minority workers are completely different because unhealthy workers are actually very likely to be worse workers, whereas there's nothing intrinsically subpar about a minority worker.
Obesity is only a genetic tendency, not a genetic trait (a la skin or eye color). Some people do have the misfortune of having to work harder than others to stay in shape. That said, I see nothing whatsoever wrong with professionally rewarding those who actually develop the good habits necessary to keep themselves in shape--and that's just the flip side of punishing those that don't. Think about this: no one would bat an eyelash at refusing to hire someone, or firing them, if they repeatedly came into work without showering, or wore sneakers and T-shirts to a business-professional setting, or refused to wear deodorant. If it's OK to professionally "discriminate" against someone for something as superficial as having bad grooming and hygiene, why should it be any different when we're talking about things that are far more serious, i.e., taking care of one's body?
okay my php joke actually got parsed so now i'm not even going to make it...
I bet he'd sue if he were fired in favor of a Black lesbian Jew.
Uh oh. FOX made another wacky, outrageous comment. Let's trash talk them and lend legitimacy to the idea that what they say actually matters to anyone without a case of anencephaly. Who cares? It pains me to see people on this forum discuss something so trivial as FOX and their commentators. They obviously have an agenda. My advice - GET OVER IT!
Perhaps we should discuss why Democrats have done next to nothing to end the war, continue to cower at Republican's trash talk, and continue to renew clauses within the PATRIOT Act that would ostensibly send Jefferson, Adams, and Hamilton to 3000 RPM crescendos...
How many times can you become newly enraged with their acid-spewing sanctimonious rants? How much energy can you spend bitching about a group of people like FOX that do the same thing over and over again? Half of the publicity that pushes people like this up the ladder probably comes from forums like this, anyway.
[Deleted. Taking out the trash-Sitemonitor]
Bunch of red commie socialists...
Speaking Of Hospitals. Here's a tip we should all put into our own personal arsenal.
Mon Feb 18, 2:28 PM ET
WASHINGTON - It's a new way to push for patient safety: Don't pay hospitals when they commit certain errors.
Medicare will start hitting hospitals where it hurts in October, and other insurers are hot on the trail.
That has the nation's hospitals exploring innovative programs to prevent injury and infection: Hand-washing spies. Surgical sponges that sound an alarm if left in the body. Even a room sterilizer that promises to wipe out bacteria left lurking on bed rails.
"Money talks," says Dr. Steven Gordon, infectious disease chief at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. "Every hospital CFO, this gets their attention."
On the plus side this rational is the perfect excuse to fire that repulsive turd Roger Ailes. If only Fox would put their money where their ass is.
I hope FOX starts, by discriminating against commentators with no substance, like Hoenig...
Gramarye @ 46:
Your argument only works IF an unhealthy lifestyle creates an actual illness. You can't assume A to lead to B in the course of ones' employment. If that 'in shape' individual runs a stop sign and needs surgery OR if a man cheats on his wife and gets shot by a jealous husband,by your logic those people should also be denied heath care.
Hey! He left out whites. Can you be fired for being white?
I hate anybody who isn't me or doesn't have my best interests at heart; even then, they are skating on thin ice by not being me.
After 7 years of breaking down the Civil Rights Bill and putting letting minorities know they will soon lose their voting rights, I see this a the Bush Policy for the USA. Now there is no way America will allow Obama to step foot in the White House. He has to understand only White American Men can be President of the United States. This is just a show for the World to think things have changed. The bottom line is American holds tight to discrimination and keeping minorities in their place. Yes a few are allowed to get the American dream like Oprah, Jordan, Magic Johnson and a few more. But all will be put on the boat back to Africa when the United States doesn't need Black entertainment. Yes Obama will be on the ship too. He will be able to take his campaign posting to show the fake campaign. Discrimination is now Legal per orders of our new Attorney General with the backing of the President and Vice President of the United States of America.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
Ooooooh -- we hit the trifecta: Red. Commie. AND socialist.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
You checked out our underwear when we bent over?
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
Funny thing. Denmark has all of those benefits and yet don't have forty percent unemployment. Curious.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
Yes and if the labor force doesn't follow your advice you can always have them machine gunned or their homes burned down like the mining companies did in the late 1800's.
Fucking fascist corporate tools.
One can only hope he gets his sorry ass fired "for any reason". Another flying monkey.
Bonkers @ 56:
LOL!!!!!!!!!
White men can only be fired for being gay or the constitution. Them's the Republican New Rules!
VietVet8666 @ 17:
If you can't do all the work yourself and need employees then who is really making the wealth? Because you had an idea does that mean all the wealth is yours or maybe just maybe labor is where wealth comes from. Maybe just maybe people that invest and facilitate labor deserve some but the wealth comes from the labor. Why do you as an employer think you are creating wealth? Do you think that labor is a tool that you use? No more important than trays in a cafeteria?
I've said for a while that the drug testing today is like the litaracy testing at the polls in the 1800's. It is ridiculous to exclude a group of people because you see them as the problem. Drug users and illiterate people can be very good at their trade. Sometimes much better than their sober, educated counterpart.
I guess what I'm trying to say is if you agree with drug testing in the workplace, you agree with this Honig guy.
Bruce @ 62:
he runs his own consulting firm
its the only consulting firm i know that sells t-shirts
this guy is supposed to be a mover and shaker
hhahaha....hes an asshat
David Hawes @ 55:
No, my argument works without taking that into account. It's an argument based both on risk and professional merit. Just because a healthy employee was injured in an accident didn't make the employer wrong to have hired them.
Although yes, if a man cheats on his wife and get shot by the other man's husband, I might be OK with denying that guy health care, but I fail to see what on Earth that has to do with recognizing poor health habits as a legitimate professional negative while refusing to recognize being a woman or minority as any kind of blemish on one's professional qualifications. That was my point. There's a reason race and gender are considered protected classes under the Equal Protection Clause while "the obese," "smokers," "alcoholics," etc. are not.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 64:
Yes we know support your fat ass so you don't lose your entitlements.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
we dont have any of that, and yet the dollar is the weakest that it has ever been....consumer confidence is the lowest in 16 years....we are headed for a recession...and the chasm between the rich and the middle class continues to grow
doesnt look like your amazing capatalist society is working....does it?
chris @ 11:
Yes but you see fat people do not live as long as you skinny people will so they won't suck medicare, ss and state funds and resources for twenty more years during their nice long 100 year life span.
Your health benefits are not at risk because people are overwieght, or because they smoke.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 64:
I have three jobs. Teacher, healthcare worker, and business owner. I work hard (including today). I pay my taxes. I support my family. I did it all on my own. Yet I am a lazy bastard?
Are you working this weekend? Are you off this holiday? If so, then thank the unions. You are one selfish motherfucker!
The problem with allowing discrimination based on genetics is this: aside from what one might call the Nazi Factor, a regime under which NO ONE would have given Jonathan a job, we now have the ability, through DNA testing, to predict many diseases: Huntington's Chorea, for example. As testing improves, we will be able to predict with reasonable certainty who will develop heart disease, certain cancers, and rheumatoid arthritis. Suppose ALL employers adopt the new DNA tests for perspective employees, people with any of those factors might never be able to work. On to matters of choice- I hate smokers, and can see the point about obese people, BUT, if we exclude them, then where does it end? There's a guy who drinks a bit much on the weekends-can't have him, might develop liver problems. That guy rides a motorcycle, hang glides, climbs rocks, whatever, might increase our health care premiums, can't have them here. Oh, and we had 3 cases of guys with tennis elbow last year, no more tennis players!
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
Why should everyone who makes less then $124,000 a year shoulder the tax burden for the top 1%?
Want to enlighten us on that.
RayC @ 65:
Suppose we concede that it is the combination of the labor and capital, and the merit of the business model, that work together to produce the wealth. So what? I don't think anyone would deny that the labor is a key ingredient in producing the wealth. How do you make the argument that this leads to the conclusion that "employers should have no right to fire obese workers and replace them with healthier workers?" It's precisely because the quality of the labor is so important that businesses need as much flexibility as possible in building the most effective teams they can. If they think that someone's health issues, and lack of self-discipline regarding those issues, are compromising their performance, why shouldn't they be able to go find someone who will make a more positive contribution to the team?
Fox News discriminates all the time. They look for special characteristics in their candidates. Mark "Officer N*ggerhater" Furman is happily employed there.
Bush Co. has already set labor back 40 years, all we need is the fox news drones to actually think that these are good ideas.....oh wait a minute, i'm sure some of them already do.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
Do you hear voices? Add another layer of foil, twit.
curtilingus @ 71:
Meanwhile back on planet earth...
I seriously doubt Hoenig's own life would stand up to the scrutiny of his political opinions.
For starters, he's jewish. I'd like to see him apply for a job in Spokane. They'd laugh their asses off at him.
curtilingus @ 66:
Thank you!
How can random drug testing be legal in light of the Fourth Amendment is beyond me. Especially when companies can get retroactive immunity for "assisting" the government without warrant. We may as well live in a gulag!
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 51:
Ah yes, we have a true nitwit in the audience with us.
Last time I checked, Denmark didn't have 40% unemployment nor a 'horrible economy'.
Actually some American businesses are wising up and realizing that maybe a National Healthcare system is better for them, rather than having them pay for their health plans (particularly the American auto makers).
According to you, Mr/Ms TLWRUN, we should be happy to be slaves to a few powerful corporations....hmm sounds like Bush's corporate friends are doing in Mexico.
When you gurgle up something interesting, let us know, otherwise go back to reading your Ayn Rand books!
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 64:
Then you disagree with corporate welfare too? Riiiiiight?
Gee, TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT, we're not red commie socialists--otherwise your reactionary, misanthropic, sorry butt would be Siberian gulag bound. And, BTW, you and your ilk seem to be the only people frightened of the commie name-calling nowadays. It's not quite the scare tactic and slur it used to be when the Great McCarthy was bullying his way through Washington. Catch up, please.
So, given that our economy is already horrible; the rich AREN'T paying their fair share; 45 million Americans have no health care (how, exactly, do you think that benefits you?); and the poor are being ridden beneath the chariot wheels, are you happy? Do you feel superior, yet?
Why don't you can kiss our compassionate, liberal behinds.
Looks like Fox is getting everyone ready for the bigger great depression to hit in around 2009-2010. Why else do we have rampant police thuggary around the nation? The banks are the source. Follow the money.
"People" like Hoenig and TLWRUN are the reason why the reich-wing will be a permanent minority.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 83:
Damn unions! Do you work 7 days a week, 12 hours/day? Do you work holidays? Do you take vacation? Do you have retirement plan? Do you work on Sunday? Only an anti-American would denigrate what the unions have brought (paid for in blood) millions and millions of Americans.
Grow up reich-winger......
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 83:
Yes the poisoned meat being fed to our school kids that was just recalled is a marvelous account of you Greatest Generation Folks brilliance.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 83:
Your reich-wing hero, herr dubyah, took credit for years for the large housing boom. In fact, all the reich-wingers readily gave herr dubyah credit for the housing boom.
So, which is it......?
Yeah, those 18 hour wok days really get to me -- it might be the steam, or it might be the bean curd... but 18 hours at a stretch is really too much wok time.
Oh, please! This was on Fu*k-up News! What do you expect?
Dr. Matt @ 87:
I know guys like this. Typically, they can't walk to go out and get the paper without physical trauma after all the hard "healthy work" and stress they've enjoyed their entire lives.
The "good" life.
So, it would be okay if this little shit-brick's employer walked up to him and said "Jonathan, I'm firing you for being a creepy little big eared fuck who lingers too close to the unrinals in the mens room when other guys are trying to take a piss!"?
I can't f'ing stand that weasel.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 83:
Yes, but in a dog eat dog world you espouse, I should be able to kill you and take your property (land). That's what built your country you moron.
TLWRUN worships the corporation and puts it above everything else.
[Deleted. Taking out the trash-Sitemonitor]
I recently interviewed for a job and the man who ran the shop asked during the interview a question he said he asks of all applicants: How many angles are there in a triangle?
I not only said 3, I said that with triangles, whether they are right triangles, obtuse or acute triangles, all the angles add up to 180 degrees, adding that a right trangle has a 90 degree angle, while obtuse triangles have one angle greater than 90 degrees, and in acute triangles all angles are less than 90 degrees.
He stopped me before I could explain the properties of equilateral, isosceles and scalene triangles and complimented be on the "I Voted" sticker I recieved when I voted in the Florida primary that day. A political discussion ensued.
I haven't heard back from the company, even though their ad is still running. I'm wondering if he thought I was too smart (he commented that my experience in the type of work they do qualifed me for his job) or whether the fact that he professed to being a republican while I admitted being a democrat has screwed me?
TLWRUN, please tell us how the Democratic Congress is at fault for herr dubyah's failed economy. Please list the details with facts and data. Thanks
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 97:
Yes a booming scam now revealed as the Ownership Society
So much for that
I could fire Hoenig because he looks like a rodent with a Howdy Doody mask, right?
Just checking.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 97:
Perfect description of herr dubyah. Good job.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 83:
Oh yeah...right, the business owner took all the risks to start their company, ha-ha, that's a good one!
So when corporations like Northrup-Grumman, Raytheon, Halliburton, Archer-Daniels Midland, et al received corporate welfare (our tax dollars), they were actually taking risks?!?
Also last time I checked, those 'liberal' lending policies you described were courtesy of Wall Street, hardly a hotbed of bleeding heart liberalism!
I'll promise to grow up when you promise to lift your knuckles off the ground.
L.A. Confidential @ 100:
“I pocketed $800,000 caSSh when I unloaded my 900 sq ft stucco crapbox on a straw buyer I rolled out of a gutter in the park downtown,” explained SoCal ream estate investor Gotts Mineschwang. “I only had ta kick back $20,000 ta the mrotgouge borker and $10,000 ta the uppraiser. Turns out that park fellar couldn’t keep up the payments and now it’s a foreclosure sale fer $200,000. I’m first in line……figger I just made me $600,000! This eCONomy is great!”
Give me a break and God help us all.
Wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.
And he wants a break.
Classic.
[Deleted. Taking out the trash-Sitemonitor]
TLWRUN, you haven't answered the question: Please tell us how the Democratic Congress is at fault for herr dubyah’s failed economy. Please list the details with facts and data. Thanks
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 106:
Please provide proof....use facts please. Thanks.
Dr. Matt @ 107:
He thinks the economy was taken down by folks earning $7.50/ hour.
I'm looking to hire a president. That one's too old, has cancer hanging off his face... That one belongs to a zany religion... That one is ugly-goofy looking... That one had his stomach stapled..... That one is hysteric with hormone changes... That one is an ex smoker ex illegal drug user...
I'm going to be weighing a few factors before making my final judgment.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 106:
Corporations are hesitant to hire because credit and money has dried up idiot.
Watch Good Times– you’ll get an idea of Carter.
Ah yes, the historical documents.
I think we need a New Deal that would oppose austerity measures against programs that help the poor. That will fund essential public services, like hospitals and schools, and provide universal health care available to all. Start regulating the markets starting with a 1% Tobin tax which could eliminate the income tax burden for everyone earning less than $125,000 year with plenty of money to fund the basic social programs of a civilized and truly decent society.
Overdue
Che's Lounge @ 112:
When a reich-winger cites a 70s T.V. show as his "factual evidence", you know we are dealing with a bottom-of-the-barrel freeper.
prepare to be compassionate, toll booth ahead
That one is hysteric with hormone changes
She's a woman. That in itself is enough for Hoenig's fans.
That one is an ex smoker ex illegal drug user…
He's black, so say no more.
Those fucktards need simpler terms.
Che's Lounge @ 112:
Carter didn't leave us $14 trillion in debt though like Regan/Bush. Add another $7 trillion with Junior.
Brad @ 115:
More like orcas with a seal pup. Let's just toss him around for a bit before we chew him up.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 117:
My goodness. I just realized. This twit hasn't even left his house since 1979!
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 117:
If you are in a stressful position where you can't think clearly, then you must exit the position.
Che's Lounge @ 120:
His mind obviously got stuck in the mud or stalled thats a given.
That guy is a Scat Muncher.
I agree with him 100%.
But employees should also be permitted then, to divulge every single bit of information that they acquire from their jobs and be able to sell it to the highest bidder. Hey, that's capitalism. So if I get fired for being too fat, or for being Jewish or black, then I can tell every competitor what projects I was working on, my contact list, our clients, even our bank accounts!
If the employer has rights, then we should have them too!
Why does this surprise anyone. This has been the goal of the Bush administration from day one. That and the creation of an American sphere of influence - another 19th century concept - in the Middle East.
These are the reasons it is imperative that moderates and leftists stop fighting among themselves once the Democrats nominate a candidate. That candidate must be elected. Protest votes, sitting on your hands, standing on principle and all the rest of the lofty ideals we on the left used to vote for Nader or whomever in 2000 and 2004 will only put McCain into office. That means 4 more years of Bush policy.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 117:
Not everybody uses money as a measure for their happiness. I for one do not want a 10,000 sq. ft. house or a big screen TV. I do like the idea of everyone having the opportunity to attend college and a single payer health system so this country have a chance of regaining its stature in the world.
Maybe offshoring you and other your outlook will help the country, you idiot.
Being a bass/baritone I much prefer harmony over your dissonance.
If the employer has rights, then we should have them too!
A very brilliant observation.
Now THAT's a commie!
"Healthism, simply put, is an overemphasis on keeping healthy. Social critic Robert Crawford believes that many persons today (particularly, he notes, the more affluent) are too focused on staying healthy. He suggests that people have become preoccupied with controlling the more manageable health factors like smoking or diet because they feel powerless to change major factors like financial uncertainty or potential nuclear disaster. When we are overly focused on healthiness or a "healthy lifestyle" as goals to strive for (or as the measure of a "healthy" society) we deflect attention from the more important goals of social justice and peace..."
http://feminist-reprise.blogspot.com/2005/12/healthism.html
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 106:
So wait....are you telling me that Jimmy Carter was the Mayor of Chicago? So Richard Daley was actually a peanut farmer and former Governor of Georgia?!? Like Wow man!
Or did Jimmy Carter instruct J.J. to shout "Dyn-O-Mite!!
Oh thank you TLWRUN, for your 'valuable' sociological insight into educational system!
I think I'll go watch 'Happy Days' to research to see if OPEC's raising oil prices was a factor in the 70's, followed by 'Whats Happening' to understand how the Three Mile Island disaster occurred!!
Honeig's into Ayn Rand also.
I mean her "Stand By Ur' Man" philosophy died decades ago.
It's worthless. A total failure.
Les all sing the Ann Rand Theme
Sometimes its hard to be a woman
Giving all your love to just one man
You'll have bad times
And he'll have good times
Doing things that you don't understand
But if you love him you'll forgive him
Even though he's hard to understand
And if you love him
Oh be proud of him
'Cause after all he's just a man
Stand by your man
Give him two arms to cling to
And something warm to come to
When nights are cold and lonely
Stand by your man
And tell the world you love him
Keep giving all the love you can
Stand by your man
Stand by your man
And show the world you love him
Keep giving all the love you can
Stand by your man
The world as re-PIG-licans want it to be is a dark, barren, loveless, joyless, miserable environment that is 100% controlled by corporations and their needs. We'll be living the way they want, marrying the way they want, eating the way they want, working the way they want, procreating the way they want, having sex the way they want, dying the way they want -- all personal will, individuality and personality will be snuffed out completely. We'll be nothing but dispensable, replaceable cogs in their ideal slavery-based world.
We'll be nothing. And that's what they want.
*
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 106:
Good Times started under Nixon!! (2/8/1974) Idiot.
Sure I did. And under Carter, there was more job creation than in the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administrations. I've also lived through the last three Republican administrations... the ones responsible for creating 85% of our historical debt, while having real growth rates less than a half of the Democratic administrations.
Go to the NBER website, check out their data on recessions. In the last 69 years, we've had 11 recessions, lasting a total of 158 months. For the 39 years we've had a Republican president, we've been in recession for a total of 120 months (note, we just might be in one now...) and for the 30 years of Democratic presidents, we've been in recession for 38 months.
That means we are more than 150% more likely to be in a recession during a Republican administration, then a Democratic. If you don't believe me, go to the NBER site, and do your own research. I think we need to spread this info out to all.
Corporations hire and fire based on their ability to earn, not based on future potential laws! And when their taxes on profits go up, they simply divert more of their money into tax loopholes, claiming less profits than there really are. And in the end, who pays the tax? Not the company but the customers!
So, wouldn't my company benefit from lower insurance costs should I not employ women. I mean they could, and often do get pregnant. As a gay man why should I have to pay for something that could be controlled? It's not like we need more babies on this planet.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 83:
You lost me with the old "git out'n thisn't cuntry ifn's yew don' like et, commie bastard!" glob of triteness. The rest just read as "Gibba gibba gibba", as I assume that you are obviously unreasonable and box-headed.
btw,
It's "Grow up COMMA libs", you simp.
I'm late in the thread, so I apologize if my sentiments have already been expressed.
This could have been a decent debate had it not been treated like a pro-wrestling match with people with various positions yelling at one another without really understanding their opponents' philosophies.
Employment discrimination is exactly one of the topics that will separate libertarians and progressives. Libertarians will argue that the law has no place in deciding such matters, and that the employer has the freedom to contract as she sees fit.
The progressive, naturally, disagree, and will seek to use the law a means of equalizing the playing field so that everyone has a chance to work and receive health care.
The challenge for progressives is to articulate the rational for interfering with the employer's liberty. This can be done. But if your answer is simply, "Because discrimination is immoral for certain purposes," I would have to categorize you as an authoritarian, not a progressive. Whenever we interfere with liberty to create equality, there needs to be a solid rationale for why we do so.
Fox has SO contributed to a great nation . . . by kicking it in the balls. What utter fools.
Poor little TLWRUN @117 ad naseum (Emphasis on the nausea..)
You really have to ignore, or at least try and fade to the background, his little tantrums. The time scales are way off base. He hasn't been out of his house since 1932, when the socialists and communists elected that horrible Franklin Roosevelt over that nice Mr Hoover. He was probably thinking of coming out in 1941, but then Mr Roosevelt went and started his war.
Seriously, I've given up talking to these people. The hard core ones at least. Scratch what passes for a conservative these days and you find some one longing for the '80's. The 1880's. Try to explain that all the middle class beneficence they pine so over stems from union work in the 20's and 30's and they look at you the same way my dog looks at me when I'm scolding it. She knows I mean something, but she's a dog she just doesn't understand the noises.
I have yet to meet ONE of these idiots who is willing to work below minimum wage, on weekends or holidays without overtime, or (GOD FORBID!) give up one unemployment or social security check.
Seriously, I know we want to be kind and all, but they've got nothing ... nothing. It's all noise, venom and spite and it's the same mentality that my Republican great aunt had when she called it "Mr Roosevelt's War" and refused to acknowledge that he was ever "her president".
Leave it be. Like my dog and the toiler bowl, they can't be taught. It's instinct and it's too deep.
Any of these professional asshats ever stop to think that a lot of employees have these health problems due to stress from their employer? Prob not. Workplace stress only happens to the overpaid execs.
When I seek employment, I tend to boast of my healthy habits, it's can be an earned advantage over other competing candidates.
Spock @ 21:
This is what happens when you don't flush. Shit takes on a life of it's own.
employers need to get back to the pre-reagan days when it was not acceptable to treat employees like livestock.
All I have to say is this
The joke is to continue calling this country a free-market capitalist society and to blame the free market for all these ills. It isn't the free market's fault that the government gives haliburton and other companies in the military industrial complex all the contracts and money. The solution to the rich being able to get away with paying less taxes isn't "lets tax the rich more"- how about tax cuts for everyone and SPENDING cuts by the congress. Our federal government wastes billions of dollars on bullshit that helps absolutely no one except some large companies. So why tax people more and give our corrupt government even more money?
The United States today is NOT a true free market- you people blaming it on the free market should be blaming corporatism because that is what's actually happening. Our weak dollar and bad economy is due to our government- not people wanting to start businesses. Both democrats and republicans are at fault- republicans for starting gross overspending, and then democrats CONTINUING the overspending and giving Bush more blank checks for our wars overseas. This democratic congress has shown me that both parties are exactly the same.
corporations can do what they want. they are not going to like the payback.
Corporations should not have rights. They have power. They have privilege. By some perversion of the legal system the 16th amendment has been misinterpretted to include corporations, but that should be swiftly reversed. Corporations can either play by the rules or LOSE their protection from personal liability.
tr @ 142:
As they say, paybacks a bitch. And these corporate fascists have a hole lotta grovelin to do in the future.
[Deleted. Taking out the trash-Sitemonitor]
hoenig would like to return to the times when my father, who was able to gain a full scholarship to cal berkley, thanks to the gi bill and his hs grades, had to drop out to help his family with his income....thereby insuring that a person who would become a high wage engineer stays in the lower middle class and owes his living to his employer
to hoenig, you and i are nothing but cattle
and this guy gets 199 bux an hour for consoltations?
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 145:
On the contrary, we love living here!
We don't like you. Prepare yourself, because this election will be horrible for you- with 23 senate seats and more than double that congressional seat in play, the Republicans will be in dire straits. Expect to lose 5-8 senate seats, 20 house seats, and the White House.
TheLeftWillRiseUpNOT @ 145:
no one forced you to come to this blog
no one forced you to read the posts or post your own idiocy
as far as i know, we dont control your mind....yet
but we are working on it
here....let me make you t'home
"I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE....I DRINK IT ALL UP!!!!!!!!!!!"
the sad thing is.. many people believes this.. as if owning a company is like having a house..
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