Contempt by The Supreme Court
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Feb 19, 2008 9:38am
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On Tuesday's Countdown, Keith Olbermann talks to Constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley about the Supreme Court's decision to not hear the ACLU vs. NSA case on warrantless wiretapping.
OLBERMANN: Why would evidence like this entire AT&T room in San Francisco—we know the number of the room, we know the guy who hooked it all up. Why is that not sufficient to at least move this lawsuit on?
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TURLEY: Well, that’s part of the ridiculous element to all this. That we know there’s an NSA program; we know that it’s illegal. There’s been no showing nor is no showing possible that the President had the authority to order what he did. This is a crime, defined under federal law. So there’s no mystery to the program, there’s not a particular debate to its illegality. The only issue is standing: the ability of someone to come in and say, “I can show I was individually harmed.” And they can’t do that because the Courts won’t give them the information they need and Congress will do nothing to force out into the public the information needed to get this type of relief. And as you noted, the Congress is going further in the opposite direction; they’re trying to extinguish suits against telecom companies that have been successful.
This is why it is so critical that you contact your representative and let them know to NOT support telecom immunity. Anything less is enabling a crime against the country and its citizens. The Gavel has compiled some experts and editorials on the FISA law.
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our democracy is broken!
let's fix it!
The next President will nominate up to 3 Supreme Court Justices that will affect a generation of
Americans. Scary to think the kind of Justice that a John McCain might nominate.
This is all so ridiculous! The Supreme Court is supposed to be there for the minority. Supposed to be there when the other two branches aren't doing their job. There is no more checks and balances. We have a justice who condones torture, and yet will still rule on the cases. There needs to be a big change...and its not coming from any of the presidential candidates
Can the ACLU make the argument that the existence of such a program harms all American citizens, and thus they have standing as representatives of any citizen? I feel I'm harmed by this, as I sit here wondering who is looking over my shoulder while I type. Creating a surveilance society and it's attendant culture of fear harms all of us collectively, even if nobody ever reads my email or listens to my conversation.
Or maybe they made that argument, and the SC didn't want to hear it...
I hate to say this but IF none of the plaintiffs can show they were harmed, why should the court take this case?
Bear in mind I'm NOT arguing the govt should be spying on us. I think they should all be in jail for war crimes and crimes against humanity, but from a legal fair stand point, I have to think that you can't go into court and say "I THINK they harmed me"
The court should not be trying to help individuals in the warrantless wiretapping civil case anyway. Since the govt admitted they did this, we should all be in criminal court. People v Govt
My Rep. is Vern Buchanan who only toes the party line.
Can't blame the supremes for this one. Bush and the Repukes, with the help of too many Dems, have gamed the system.
Filthy Harry @ 5:
As an observer and thankfully not a US citizen, it seems to me that your country is getting closer and closer to a situation where only an armed revolution will result in meaningful change. I wish those of you who are fighting for your constitution and your freedom all the best.
Joementum @ 7:
But the Supreme Court helped to end segregation and gave women a right to choose when the President and the Congress didn't. That is a huge part of the history of the Court, and this would have been another case of that sort of thing
People need to pay attention to the votes congress is making and replace them when needed.
Americans are too stupid and lazy to do even that.
Joementum @ 7:
They're ALL to blame! Busholini appointed the most extreme right wingers the SCOTUS has ever seen and Congress kowtowed.
The Supreme Court is simply sending the message that Laws are for little people.
In the new order of things, the President owns the Law and the US Constitution and this isn't bound by them.
Maybe Bush will issue a signing statement that nullifies Presidential elections? After all his Signing Statements demonstratively supersede the US Constitution.
The Supreme Court is there to uphold the Constitution and maintain the rule of law, not hide the illegal activities of an administration that acts more like a gang of criminals than a government of the people, for the people. I've heard several arguments for and against their hearing the case, but in the end, they should have and at least made an effort to uphold the laws this country was founded upon.
Sam @ 9:
That Supreme Court, believed in their Oath of Office.
go shopping everyone...
LOL, The Gavel. That rotten-to-the-core, spineless, pathetic excuse for House Leader has a blog. She makes me want to throw up. Talk about abdicating your duty. She should be hanging with the Republicans, at the end of a short rope in a tall tree. Let's see what the next mother fucker who has her job says about impeachment then.
The light of freedom in America is dimming.
Everyone knows that the law is for the poor and middle-class. The rich and powerful are able to circumvent law most of the time. What does "rule of law" mean if it is so elastic and subject to partisan politics and corporate pressure that real crimes involving millions of dollars or millions of lives go unpunished? The impoverished drug addict will go to jail for twenty years for armed robbery and assault. Bush and his pals (including the telecom companies) will continue their greater crimes at almost no risk of punishment. Can't we have a revolution yet?
Weaseldog @ 12:
Nailed it.
By the way...why is this story not on the front page of the NY Times. Other than KO, I really haven't seen much about this
Solutions:
1. I remember that one telecom refused to provide information. I think everyone should switch to that service provider. AT&T losing 1 Million customers ought to make a point.
2. Insert 'bomb' and 'al quaeda' into every conversation you have on the phone. That will make their detectors work overtime.
Don't blame the courts for this, blame our continually spineless Congress.
Civil cases involving government violations of Fourth Amendment rights typically deal with a person being investigated/prosecuted for evidence obtained illegally, i.e. without a warrant. Clearly there is harm to an individual in these cases, e.g. their time is taken up with it, they incur legal bills, their reputation sullied, etc. In a nutshell, that's the legal precedent we're dealing with.
Now, if an individual was actually harmed by this NSA data-mining, don't you think they would know it and be able to show it?
If an individual was harmed, i.e. illegally investigated/prosecuted, then it is wrong if they are unable to pursue some legal remedy. On the other hand, these class-action lawsuits related to the NSA data-mining are nonsense.
The Supremes showed us all that they were a joke in 2000, and have been trying hard to maintain that image ever since!
Oh, I also have to give a shout out to the people who always say "Contact your representatives!" That one always cracks me up. Do you not understand that our elected representatives are the ones fucking us in the ass? In this country, if you want the government to do something, it takes a lot more than phone calls. And "it" is called money, huge piles of it.
peaceful easy feeling @ 23:
OK, maybe I am not being harmed in the sense of having my house destroyed, or getting physically injured, but these are Consitutional rights that are being taken away. So I am being harmed in a way that I am not as free as a citizen to say what I want to say, without the fear of what I am saying being collected in a database
Hope this Supreme Court refers to the Executive Branch when Barack Obama becomes President. The real test will be how SCOTUS performs after the Democrats take control in November and are sworn into office in January 2009. Will the next Democratically controlled Congress need to file impeachment against some of the Supremes? I'm sure the NSA spying records has something on Scalia and maybe a few others.
Hope Larry Flynn has some good information from the DC Madam's address book to release this October.
peaceful easy feeling @ 23:
Can I go to your house when you're away and look through all your stuff? I won't make a mess, and I promise not to do anything with the information I find. You wouldn't have a problem with that, right?
we could start by impeaching a Justice or two, and then remove the dems in Congress who enabled this by voting for those guys and for giving Bush everything he wanted.
canucknotusa is correct. And thanks for your support.
Canuknotusa @ 8:
If everyone's civil liberties were honestly being taken away like you'd think they have by reading some on this blog, half of those here would be in Gitmo. Nicole and John would be sharing a cell for Christ's sake....
Armed revolution...LOL...what a maroon......
Canuknotusa @ 8:
Hopefully, it will not come to that...but thanks for your support :)
Maybe this clusterfuck of epic proportions, can be solved through peaceful and diplomatic means...and by voting the regressivists out of office. If not...oh well. Revolution it is then.
Turley said Rove would be indicted.
And frankly I don't blame the SC for punting. The SC knows the Democratic leadership is dragging their feet on holding Bush accountable for his crimes.
This would be legislating from the bench if the SC ruled against the Democratic Senators~
Jay Severin Has a Small Pen1s @ 21:
LOL!!! Well the first idea is likely to be more effective. And the second, however good it would feel may not be a good idea. What if the one terrorist stupid enough to actually use such language over the phone might slip through the net. ;)
Weaseldog @ 12:
And it was the little people who stormed the Bastille oh so long ago... these "rulers" will go down... it's just a matter of time and how long the "little people" are willing to put up with rules for them and rules for the rich. As said so long ago... Hang the rich!
Remember when the Supreme Court actually adjudicated justice.
Ahh...the good old days.
KO should have asked Turley about a little thing called "Discovery". The SC has been populated with shills. Time for some shovels, pitchforks, and torches.
Business as usual. Keith has to cover something.
The Monkey in the Oval Office will pardon the telecoms if congress removes immunity. It's a no win/no win situation.
Olympics Menu. Breakfast of Champions.
http://tinyurl.com/284m8f
My reps are Republican. Is it even feasible to think they'd break party lines to follow the people's wishes?
I mean, will I just be wasting my time by calling them?
AshWilliams @ 41:
Depends how safe their seats are. A lot of districts once thought to be untouchable by Dems are coming into play, and Repukes are rightfully worried.
AshWilliams @ 41:
It is quite obvious that yes it is a waste of time. Apparently according to the internet, these reps phones have been ringing off the hook. Has it done anything?
Yeah, I just wanted someone else to say it for me so I won't feel guilty about not calling.
AshWilliams @ 44:
LOL........well, when you think about it, they've had how long to do something about this? Regardless of party lines, it's pretty obvious they know if they are breaking the laws or not, and don't give a shit.
The only sure fire way (as history has shown) to implement any form of revolution
is the simplest of all forms. MASS DISOBEDIENCE.
If they try to haul you off or arrest you for simply doing nothing, it's game on.
Swashbuckler @ 22:
This is the core of the problem. All of these things have a legal remedy, and they all involve congress doing their job. We've just let congress get too corrupt for too long.
Supreme court justices should be appointed every 10 years. The idea of having Judges like Roberts, Alito and Scalia controlling the laws in the country for the rest of my life just sickens me. If American justice isn't dead, it's at least on life support.
ConcernedCanuck @ 45:
Mornin Canuck! How ye be?
Oh I think they'll give a shit soon enough.
When they see the throngs of people marching on their halls of power. They'll be shittin in their skivvies!
lucid fiction @ 46:
Let's get this party started.
Seriously, what are we gonna do for the anniversary of the war (March 18th is it?)?
Jonathan Turley stated, "This is a crime, defined under federal law." Why won't some federal prosecutor (one with cojones) indict this preznit? Yoohoo! Calling all federal prosecutors.
AshWilliams @ 41:
I write my Senator, Richard Lugar, and he has actually stood up the to his fellow Republicans and refused to add a rubber stamp to legislation like the Kyle Lieberman amendment. Yet, our Democratic Senator Bayh voted for it. Of course Bayh is an elephant in donkey clothes. We have too many of those.
I consider myself a Democrat, but I will be voting for Lugar and against Bayh. So although generally Republicans suck and Democrats are a little better, it isn't strictly so.
At some point, the colonists realized the Red Coats weren't bulletproof.
liberalNmoderation @ 49:
I wish ya luck with that. So far, this Bush Regime has done anything and everything it felt like, and nary a peep from the people. When they did rise up (before the Iraq invasion) even the Democratic Party basically ignored them. So, I don't know what else to say. I'm pretty sure both parties know which laws have been broken, when, why, and by who, and yet? Nothing.
The next Congress needs to exercise its Constitutional authority and change the number of sitting judges, so that these fascists are outnumbered into irrelevance.
peaceful easy feeling @ 23:
Since business calls and emails are being filtered by private corporations, they can be resold to other corporations and used competitively. And under Telecom Immunity Legislation, this is legal.
They can also be used for blackmail. And who is going to complain that their daughter's phone calls to a drug dealer was used to extort money from them?
Remember, the FBI and NSA is contracting private corporations to collect, store and filter this data. ChoicePoint is one of the corporations used and they get hacked all the time. They keep losing credit card information. If they can't stop getting hacked for credit card data and medical information, then why should we trust that our recorded business and personal calls won't be hacked?
FOX is State Sponsored TV @ 33:
Did Turley say "would" or did he say "should"? I hope you are right, and that it is the former. I would like to see Jonathan Turley become AG under an Obama administration with John Edwards as Solicitor General. Edwards belongs before the SCOTUS prosecuting while Turley serves as our returning conscience.
After Bush v. Gore, can anyone really expect a non-political opinion from the Supreme Court?
Jay @ 31:
A complete conversion to Complete Military Fascism has to be performed in easy steps. Right now, they are just taking names. If they did everything at once, they;d have a rebellion. They have to give us time to get used to doing without each little freedom they take away.
Welcome to the list of discontents.
Joementum @ 28:
the FBI can do that now, and they never have to tell you they did it. They are the new Stazi.
If this is a quo warranto suit, Sign Me Up!
We have before us, what the bible told us about prince of lies. I heard Roberts say before nominated for SC that he thought the public defender system was over worked and he thought more money should be allocated. Since he has been on bench, money for public defenders have gone down in all states, so the case loads for public defenders is now averaging 400 plus a year due to fewer actually employed by state.
Canuknotusa @ 8:
Wrong on both counts gents.
Since I made the arangement with the telephone company and not the Government, I sue them because they did not act in good faith. Understand what I said, they did not act in good faith with their customer excepting Quest it seems.
As an observer, I don't know if you have been through a Civil War, I haven't and I don't hazard the idea of wanting to be in one. Besides that I happen to think that our "constapational system" is better than a poke in the eye. There won't be an armed revolution, there will be civil war and the losing side will be the citizens of the America not the observers or non US citizens.
When the SCOTUS makes it clear that they are the enemy of the people along with congress, then it's time for them all to be dismissed and divested of their power.
If Congress doesn't do something to produce this necessary information to move this case forward, then it will be clear that the Civil War is coming.
QUESTION. Did Obama ever say publically the type of SCJ he would nominate? I ask because in a LOGO interview Hillary was asked point blank if she would nominate a Judge whom is anti gay and she answered NO. Since Obama is so religious it worries me.
OliverDreams @ 51:
That is way to confusing for me. I would just move.
Even without individual harm, which sounds more civil case than criminal, all the evidence listed above is clearly evidence of a criminal conspiracy. And conspiracies can be tried even if they never go foreward.
This is the Nazis on the Supreme Court essentially giving the raspberry to Congress, daring them to impeach already.
This whole situation along with the USDA scandal over potentially tainted beef that I have yet to see hit this blog in any way shape or form disgusts me to my core.... Embarassed? Some poster upthread spoke of embarassment at these actions by our government against 'us'; 'we the people'.. I'm way the hell past that... I got no use for any of the players in this crime against the citizens. I hold every one of them in contempt from the fascist wannabe Supremes down the chain thru the spineless congress who ignore phone calls and written pleas right down to the freekin IT pogue who hooked up the last rj45 to get this shit rolling in that 'secret' AT&T room on Mission St. in San Franfuckingcisco!!!!! It's public knowledge where, when, how and why, it all happened and yet nothing can be done!!??? FUCK THAT!
They're all bastards... And while I can't or won't advocate armed insurrection in the face of all this at this point as others do, mostly because we rabble will have our asses handed to us by the combined firepower of the police and armed services..And that serves no end other than putting money in the undertakers pocketbook, I will admit this is exactly the kinds of punitive nonrepresentative acts by an overreaching government acting in its own selfish interests and not the peoples interests that does in fact over time foment the kinds of civil disobediance that leads to blood in the streets civil war! Ya want to see the middle east type living in your own backyard? We are slowly headed that way in fits and starts....
This nations government institutions are seemingly dragging us right down that path and the sick part is, it doesn't have to be that way.... FUCKTARDS!!! FISA does and has worked! But it don't matter apparently... Every branch has been tainted these last seven years by this nitwit Bush and his PNAC fascist supporters... I don't trust any of them at this point.. Not the executive, not the legislative, not the judiciary... And they only have themselves to blame for my lack of faith in their intentions or these institutions now! And it looks like I ain't the only one fed up with the whole lot either...
Keep it up Uncle Sam... Keep pissing on the electorate and sooner or later you will get your goddamned bloody revolution, but you won't like how it turns out... And neither will any of the rich motherfuckers who sit around counting their money thinking something like that is actually a good idea for a democratic representational United States or the world at large....Slavery and freedom are mutually exclusive no matter how you try fudge the issue or slap paint on that reality....And that's what's really the stakes here.. Ya lose enough freedoms and civil rights and pretty soon ya got nothing but what your told ya got.. IF that ain't slavery 21st century style, someone step up and tell me what the hell it amounts to dammit! JD
I have always used the ability to find "sensitive" government open source material on the internet, and the ability to post freely as indicators of our slide into an oppressive regime such as china, north korea, or Saudi Arabia.
for lackof a better precise term, place it under the umbrella of the infringement on freedom of speech and the hallowed principals of government transparancy.
Historically, elements our government hasve consistently exceeded their authority to perform warrantless observations and spying. Martin Luther king, John Lennon, Lenny Bruce, examples just in our life time, anybody with a japanese or german surname in the time of our grandparents/parents.
Its as if it is cyclicle..
The aspect of any "civil War" or revolution would be restrained, unless there was some kind of major economic upheavel.
Then the rice bowl politics will kick in, and we will find our selves slipping more to socialism and communism.
(Funny thing , Teddy Roosevelt would talk about responsible corporatism preventing that... w e get what we deserve, timeto re watch "Save the Tiger"
bob @ 47:
So what you folks are saying is that it's OK for the Presidentay and his mass of Repugs, to run rough shod over the constitional form of government but because the Dems have has a slight to less than slight for the last year or so, It's the fault of the Congress. please tell me that you don't blame only the Dems in Congress, cus them I feel that you are using the Same old GOP playbook.
There will no end to the what we have had for the last seven years, unless people realize that the problem has been going on for quite a while.
Do you expect too much from the Congress? I mean DeBush and DeBush Court have really screwed up things and you expect your congress folks to patch it all up last month.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/20/contempt-by-the-supreme-court
When the 3rd branch of Government, the Supreme Court, becomes a political body, not a judicial body, we have a problem.
Our forefathers were brilliant when setting up the systems of 'Checks and Balances' in Government: Administrative, Legislative, Judicial, and a Free Press.
According to Jonathan Turley, in this MSNBC Keith Oberman clip, the only recourse is a criminal case filing.
Well, Federal Laws have been broken, what's the delay in filing a criminal action?
The Justice department has become a political body also?
Then someone else file a criminal case!
How hypocritical that Bush lawyers campaigning in 2000 stated "We want to return the country to 'The Rule Of Law' ."
If a Federal Crime is committed a criminal filing is most reasonable.
Jay @ 31:
Some folks like to play the old you and him fight it out!
This is what a bought and paid for court gives you.
Dismiss the entire Supreme Court. Do-over or revolution
1984!
Wow!, this once great Nation is sicker than I thought...
Lusmu @ 74:
I don't think there is a anything on the Constition for Do-overs. Instead of calling it a revolution call it what it will be a civil war.
There is always impeachment but as you folks know, they tried that before and didn't have good results.
Well if the Supreme Court is not supporting your people but supporting your Corporations then it is not the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. It is AT&T's SUPREME COURT.
So call it like it is... Fascism. That's the DICTIONARY DEFINITION of the Current State of Governence within the US.
Fascism
natisman @ 77:
Yes, I think that the people will have to literally take the capitol back form this criminal cartel by force.
The "SPP" is basically what turns Canada and Mexico into Austria. Resources for your war machine. That is what you are doing. Building weapons and suppling weapons for your military domination of the globe.
No one is going to stand for your 'Coalition of the Warcirminals; any longer.
hey JackD,
Why would you think there would be a significantly large amount of servicemembers willing to poit their weapons at US citizens exersizing their freedom of assembly???
National guardsmen ..mabe, but then they would be an extension of the governors law enforcement tool.
There would be a few servicemembers willing, but then those would be the politicized assholes like the ones in the justice department..
Once again I had to threaten Sen Kohl (WI) that if he continues to support telecom immunity i will burn all my current clothes from Kohl's department store and never shop there again!!
On the other hand my rep Tmmy Baldwin is an ardent supporter of the Constitution, opposing immunity and co-sponsering impeachment!!!
Anyone read the article about the PREDATOR firing a HELLFIRE missle and taking some raghead out in PAKISTAN?. I wonder who the MILITARY would support in a civil war in this COUNTRY?THESE MONEY ABSORBED BASTARDS HAVE USURPED ALL RIGHTS AND ARE NOW SHOWING THE WORLD THAT THEY HAVE NO HONOR,ETHICS, OR INTEGRITY. to arm yourself with the intention of rebellion is to commit suicide . You havn't any chance!!!. just stop spending money for about a week and see the results. I'm so sick of this charade of a GOVERNMENT that I think I going to throw up before it becomes illegal. VOTE FOR RON PAUL.
Have I been harmed?? Yes I have. I fear that the gov't may misconstrue (sp?) what I say or write and then label me as an enemy combatant, throw me in jail without legal representation and a trial by my peers. Fricking right I'm scared.
This raises my production of cortisol, mildly even a sustained period of time is detrimental to the health of the human body. Unbalanced hormones is what it is.
My anxiety isn't about terrorists, it is about the future of the USA in a climate of gov't intervention of our lives.
joetheslave @ 83:
Agreed on most points...especially your shared racism with Ron Paul...the man has my respect for his knowledge of the constitution and his devotion to it, however he loses that respect with his racism (no, I won't do it for you, LOOK IT UP). You really destroyed any possibility of anyone on this site taking you seriously when you used the word "raghead." Congratulations, you are now both irrelevant and an exposed racist.
Liberal Traitor @ 85:
Racists usually expose themselves. Thats pretty simple, it's like they are a sandwitch, with doggeral encasing a turd.
duncanidho@81;
Desensitization... Four plus years of neverending stoploss orders and neverending extended tours watching close friends get blown to bits or shot up and maimed for life will screw with a guy or gals head...It's already being documented about the mental health issues coming out of that hellhole and that's just the ones who can't charge up the hill anymore.. How many are still in fighting and trying to survive everyday with no hope now.
Still serving honorably living with these horrors etched into their brains forever. How does a person lose their sense of humanity??... That meatgrinder is definitely one surefire way....
Or, how bout a whole generation and a half raised on first person shooter video games where thinking or morality isn't really a part of the program... taught to just point and clik/shoot.....
That's if a U.S. born citizen in a uniform does point a gun and pull the trigger on another U.S. born citizen at a protest rally... Wouldn't be the first time.. Just check out your Civil War 1861-65 history... The 64 riots in New York as just one point of reference. Of course I can't know that absolutely U.S. soldiers will follow orders to gun down U.S. civilians but I got my reasons for suspecting as much and I just listed two above...
Then there's the whole merc industry getting real hands on training in mayhem as well.... Blackwater and a host of others now in the mix subcontracting under the government.. Generally speaking, those types are in it for the money, big money... And I haven't ever seen it proven that they give a fuck over who they are gunning down as long as the paycheck still clears at the end of the pay period... Yea, I got my reasons for not trusting shit anymore.......
I think at this point... it really is pretty much as Roger Daltry sang a generation ago and was brought up on the Who thread...
'Meet the new boss....Same as the old boss'.... Of course in the interests of complete honesty.. I'm feeling really nasty and cynical today..Ask me again tomorrow bro.. Who knows, I might have a brighter future story to tell you........or not..... JD
Neil @ 80:
It's getting a little thick in here, is it not? I mean instead of talking about it, do it. I'll be right behind you or takin my ass to Canada.
jack damage @ 87:
Blackwater, its size and scope (100,000+ "employees," not all of whom are weapon carrying soldiers of fortune, but still), the lack of oversight (by ANYONE), the fact that they are allowed to operate outside of the law with respect to Iraq, their allegiance to the almight dollar rather than the almighty constitution, their history (ALREADY) of firing on civilians (and then making it clear they really don't feel bad about it, nor could they make themselves FEEL anything about it), their connections politically (via CEO Erik Prince and his financial and intellectual support of Bushco) to the Republican party, and their blatant disregard for human rights coupled with the new "Hague Invasion Act" which basically says the US will not allow the ICC/World Court to try anyone connected with the US for war crimes, and that if they try and thereby take custody of a US Soldier or Citizen we reserve the right to INVADE THE FUCKING HAGUE WITH TROOPS AND FORCIBLY REMOVE SAID PERSON makes Blackwater one of the MOST frightening things in the entire world today. They frighten me a hell of a lot more than some stupid terrorists.
Anyone who still believes that The United State of AmeriKa is a democracy is living in a fantasy land and has their nose buried in 'My Pet Goat' or 'The Cat in the Hat'. Someone mentioned farther up thread mentioned the riots in New York City during the Civil War and Federal Soldiers firing upon civilians of the time. I fear that if the Government doesn't start listening to The People like they are constitutionally bound to do and start to restore our country to it's democratic principles that it was built on and abandon the policies of aggression started by the Bush Administration, we are doomed to repeat that awful chapter in our history in some way shape or form.
Also it has been said farther up the thread that our civil liberties have not been truly taken away. I beg to differ, we, regular people, are being spied on. Our mail and emails are being read, telephone conversations listened to, personal purchases and bank accounts being tracked. This is an invasion of privacy. People are being tortured at the behest of the present occupiers of the White House. Habeas Corpus has been suspended. This is a violation of Human Rights. We have 'Free Speech Zones' and those in power are trying to make the Washington Mall in D.C. a permanent 'Free Speech Zone'...forever. This is a violation of the right to peacefully assemble. We have a President who not only shrouds his Administration in secrecy, uses Signing Statements like a monarch issuing proclamations. These are the actions of a dictator, not a 'democratically elected' President.
JerryO @ 90:
What you say is very true, but how about we, get through the election and test the Constitution and see what will happen. We will find out how crazy Bushboy and the Gang of RePUGS really are, the closer to election day.
I also think that a lot of other folks here especially on this board don't have any idea of civil war in America. They seem to think that the 7/11 will still be open. Most of us live a pretty good life here and I find there won't be a lot folks won't be willing to put themselves to in a position to lose that. Again what you say is clear and I feel the same way, but I kind of wonder about other people on this board who talk the game but have no idea of the repercussions if they take the wrong action at the wrong time.
I think we have some rabble on our side too.
natisman @ 71:
No one said anything about Democrats. Congress is made up of Rs, Ds, and independents. All take an oath of office to “protect and defend the constitution.” None are doing it. We all know the contempt Rs have for the congress, and their oath of office. Ds aren’t much better.
Collectively, congress is the body which should remedy an executive run amok-they aren’t doing it. It has been going on for a long time. Congress has been corrupted by corporate money for decades. This is the end result.
peaceful easy feeling @ 23:
Speaking as one who won't even put a bumpersticker advocating change on my car (worried about the automated read-the-sticker-and-the-license-tag software that may already have been deployed), I can saay that the very idea that the government might be listening is sufficient harm without having to show actual financial, reputational or physical harm.
bob @ 92:
How about the courts, like the Supreme Court, after all this segment is talking about the courts right? How many Independent are there in the House 3 to 5 maybe, 2 in the senate. so that info had little bearing, but you had to tell me that the Ds are not any better than what, Denny Hastert, Tom Delay, John Doolittle, Jerry Lewis, how many else are there and are those folks demos or RePUGs and do they side with Bush.
See if you under stand that the House can make laws that are unconstutional as well as Presendential orders and that only recourse is the courts for change, then maybe you can understand why there are not two parts of Government but three.
I know it's lots of fun to put down Miss Nancy, I do it too, but she ain't the only problem, and she didn't start it either.
The Fascist States of America!
At what point can Supreme Court justices be brought up on charges?
What is wrong with this site? Did you folks gone nuts?
Only in America this site can exist so you should be happy next time you open your legs wider!!!
LOL Yea Bush is the evil and ALL THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE ARE CAUSED BY THOSE RIGHT WINNNNNGERRRRS!!!!
We need at least 3000 boots on the ground in DC to storm the Whitehouse, Supreme Court, and the Senate simultaneously - to take government back for the people. We need a tidal wave of outraged human bodies to sweep through the streets and bring traffic to a halt. We need to be prepared for the bloody response that would surely arise from any effort to wrest power from the grip of these craven criminals.
If we love this country enough to save it then we need to be prepared to risk everything (death), because that is what might be required. When the revolution begins it won't be a protest march or an email campaign, it won't be clever signs and slogans that rhyme with "hey, hey, ho ,ho" - it will be getting beaten, gassed, and shot.
Most people can't be bothered to call or write their representatives. Where are we going to find enough Americans to wage a revolution and save their country when they know they might suffer some discomfort?
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