Hardball: Donna Edwards On Where We Go From Here With Cuba
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Feb 19, 2008 4:58pm
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Look at this! Just days after her primary win over Bush Dog Al Wynn and before she will be sworn in, Donna Edwards is already getting face time on major news shows. That's a rising star for you. Chris Matthews brings Edwards on to temper the right wing fear mongering of Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana, who apparently has still bought into the great bogeyman of the Cold War era: the Communist. Castro's despotic and tyrannical rule over Cuba was because he was a 1) despot and 2) tyrant...not because he was a communist. But don't tell that to Burton.
Notwithstanding that Cuba has represented absolutely no threat to the U.S. since Khrushchev scuttled his missiles, braying pols and official U.S. policy have continued to buttress Castro's status as a hemispheric bogeyman, oblivious to all measurable reality, much less simple reason. Sure, we've traded liberally all through the Clinton and Bush years with far more vicious authoritarian regimes, from Indonesia and China to Colombia-- which we've armed to the teeth largely to enable fascist paramility Klansmen to murder campesinos so that U.S. corporations can clear-cut their land -- but bring up Cuba, the notion of even relaxing nearly a half-century of teeth-gnashing hostility and economic strangulation, and you might as well be Neville Chamberlain in Munich. The reason, of course, is simple political triangulation: the much-contested Florida electorate and its population of right-wing Cubans. [..]
And curiously, Hardball turned to not-yet-even-elected Donna Edwards, of all the Democrats available, to counterpoint Burton. As yet unschooled on the triangulative realities of real politick, herself actually having been to Cuba, Edwards offered the simple admonishments that engaging a society and finding commonalities, versus demonizing them, versus playing global tough guy, might lead to the rudimentary markets and freedoms we'd like to encourage, especially after Helms-Burton had so plainly not worked-- and, by the way, after playing global tough guy combined with neolib trade dogma has nearly broken the damn country. "We need to re-establish relations with Cuba on issues of travel, even family travel," she told Tweety, " [to] establish dialogue on the ground so that when the transition happens, Cubans have information to make their own decision about their economic future."
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I am just kinda wondering how many enemies the US of A needs? Aren't there enough without going backwards 15 years?
Isn't that illegal??
Hey, just curious - is China still communist? Don't they own, like, 75% of the USA and have an on-again, off-again free pass to dull the minds of our children with lead encrusted binkies?
shantiquax @ 3:
Mmmm, lead binkies. Yummy.
Reich-wingers worship communist China and Commie-Wal-Mart, but they fear a defenseless communist China.....what idiots.
Oops....let's try that again: Reich-wingers worship communist China and Commie-Wal-Mart, but they fear a defenseless communist CUBA…..what idiots.
Dr. Matt @ 6:
The fear isn't of the nation. It's the fear of the people of the nation having socialized healthcare, subsidized living, etc...it scares the BeJeesus outta rich Americans that don't want that idea to spread to the US.
Cubans are good people, they work hard for littlle pay and they keep a positive outlook on life. The US should lax their relations and open up with Cuba.
i
Bush isn't a despot and tyrant?
If Cuba is a "terrorist nation", as claimed by this reich-wing twit, how come herr dubyah isn't protecting us from this "terrorist nation" that is a mere 70 miles from our boarder?
Sh*t Fidel is nicer and fairer to his people then the Bushes could ever hope to be.
They get slammed by a Hurricane and at least Fidel helps his people instead of watching them float face down on National TV.
Donna is a beautiful, smart, talented person and we are blessed to have her as part of our government. Congratulations Donna!!!!
...and this ins't news because we have an election in 10 months???
Officials: F-15s collide over Gulf of Mexico
For one thing they live a simpler more more down to earth life there.
Cubans aren't running around jacked up on coffee and speed trying to get through a days work just so they can get the latest iPOD or sneaker.
The main problem is their next door neighbor to the NW is this huge greedy monster that wants to consume everything and everybody in it's path.
i've traveled cuba for 20 years and what Burton et al just DONT get is that the majority of Cubans support Fidel and the system, because of the health care and education and security. And the support is not coerced. There are not thousands in prison, there is no torture or death squads. The lies of Burton and his ilk are so infuriating because they have no idea what they're talking about. And terrorist nation? Cuba has suffered more than 3,000 terrorist acts, all originating from Florida. Posada and Bosch walk the streets, even though they were responsible for the Cubana airlines bombing. There is a book coming out about the victims of terrorist acts against Cuba -- teachers were killed, children died from Dengue, villages were attacked, unbelievable biological and other forms of terrorism against innocent civilians. It's so sad the reality, both good and bad, of Cuba, is never portrayed in American media. All because the US still has never forgiven Cuba for going their own way.
So it doesn't help that we live in the Belly of the Beast
What everyone forgets is that Fidel with the help of his countrymen refuse to sit idle while America businessmen try to turn his country in to Disneyland for wealthy Americans with the help of Batista sellouts. Can you blame a guy that gets offended when you try turn your sister into a whore so foreigners can have a good time? (Don't answer that if you are a you are cuban an live in Florida as your family more than likely assisted whitey). Lastly, what Cuba has been able to accomplish (more doctors per capita than most industrialized nations for one) while under embargo never ceases to amaze me. Imagine if they were left to peruse their government w/o threat from the Capitalist beast.
lots of factual inaccuracies on the part of Dan Burton. Just cheap boiler-plate right-wing boiler plate trash talking. oh yes... Fidel uses babies to chum for sharks. Hes a dictator so I can just make shit up.
You go Girl , I like the way that Lady handled herself
OK, OK, all we are hearing now is "Castro Retired and __________wants democracy in Cuba"....fill in the blanks with Bush, Hillary, Obama, McCain, whoever.....How goddamn ARROGANT! Whatever sort of government the Cubans end up with should be THEIR choice, not ours...now watch as the US tries even more to meddle in their affairs, because of course they are just a bunch of ignorant sugar-cane-shucking Latinos who don't know what's good for them. Maybe they would like some sort of Socialism? Maybe a combination? Who knows? We certainly haven't been ASKING them lately. Surely they don't want the kind of Democracy Bush is trying to force on the Iraqis.
When America learns to mind it's own business and allow other countries citozens to decide what they want, maybe we will regain some of our lost popularity...perhaps we should start by LEADING BY EXAMPLE and ditching the spying, the "super-delegates" and the Electoral College and acting like a REAL democracy.
ConcernedCanuck @ 7:
DING!!!!!!! And the man wins the prize!
Acting Patriotic @ 13:
It's on the front page of CNN, Yahoo, etc. What else do you want?
dewey_m @ 17:
Good summary. We have become the Beast. On a rampage across the world. Don't hear many candidates talking about that though.
Dr. Matt @ 22:
SUNNYVALE, Calif. - In an environmental dispute seemingly scripted for eco-friendly California, a man asked prosecutors to file charges against his neighbors because their towering redwoods blocked sunlight to his backyard solar panels.
Only in America. The Lunatic Bin of the Universe.
Well technically I think he isn't since as far as we know his administration will end in about a year, but I think Bush believes he is royalty and people should carry out his edicts without thought.
Here, I'll say it, and now one wants to admit it:
Cuba won. Castro won.
Sorry AmeriKa.
Deal with it.
22 Dr. Matt Says: Acting Patriotic @ 13:
…and this ins’t news because we have an election in 10 months???
Officials: F-15s collide over Gulf of Mexico
It’s on the front page of CNN, Yahoo, etc. What else do you want?
Sorry DrM,
I don't do CNN.com, never mind on TV. I just thought others may find it interesting. Please, if you find something, post a link. SHARE. That's what we're here for after all.
I Am A Banana @ 26:
But how will can survive knowing we haven't been able to force our particular style of gluttony, greed, and addiction down their throats?
I mean somethings wrong if a Nation doesn't have to consume anti acids and anti diarrhea's after every meal.
It's nice to see Tweety put a real progressive on his show. I hope we see more of this woman.
L.A. Confidential @ 28:
Sorry
We need to bring democracy to Cuba. That means we should launch a missile strike destroy their electrical grid, wipe out their water and sewers, kill a million or so many people and let it be known that we will torture people, detain them without notification and pretty much destroy the social fabric of Cuba. That's the first phase.
Then we'll set up a provisional government and write their constitution for them. We'll privatize everything owned by the government selling it to multinational corporations for fire sale prices. We'll disband their "socialized medicine" plan because the free market works so much better. Retirees will see their benefits evaporate and will be forced to beg until they are phased out of the population.
When that's done well allow them to conduct elections, if we don't like the outcome we'll topple them and put a more acceptable "democratic" leader. If anyone complains they will disappear.
So after having their cities bombed, their resources looted and their social system dismantled they'll be an infinitely more civil society. They'll be able to share in the new American Dream, a Big Mac with a Coke and fries.
Isn't Guantanamo on Cuba? I'm so confused!
bolodive @ 15:
Exactly. I've been to Cuba three times and the attitude there is NOTHING like what is portrayed in the US. Similar to Venezuala. The US gov't spouts BS saying what an evil dictator Chavez is, when in reality, overwhelming majority WANT HIM. Hell the US tried to overthrow Chavez, and the people hit the streets by the hundreds of thousands to get him back.
L.A. Confidential @ 24:
From what I heard on the radio, the solar panel guy actually won that case when it went to the courts.
ConcernedCanuck @ 33:
My wife is Venezuelan. I have traveled to Venezuela extensively, and lived there for some periods of time. Chavez is an incompetent monster. All of his support comes from ignorant uneducated people, whom he has bought with a few clinics (read "deathtraps") and hand-outs. He is rapidly ruining Venezuela's economy. The streets, clean 15 years ago, flow knee-deep in garbage. The money is worthless (try a 24% inflation rate) there is little food left in the stores and what there is is of the lowest quality. If you do not sign a statement committing yourself to supporting chavez, it is almost impossible to get a job. Dengue fever, TB, and other diseases are on a marked rise. He has squads of Cuban mercenaries there to terrorize people who do not support him. 2 people were shot to death in the street in front of my wife's family's house two days ago, and the bodies lay in the street for 4 HOURS before anyone came. Chavez regularly gives Venezuelan ID's to Iranians and Iraqis so they can sneak into the US. Their postal system is totally non-functional. Meanwhile Chavez is buying 5 attack submarines from the Russians, has already purchased 500,000 AK47's, and attack helicopters. And nationaliizes (read "steals") any business that he feels like taking over. Without paying for it. Empresas Polar, the largest food company in Venezuela, and manufacturer and distributor of dozens of vital products, has moved to Colombia in order to get away from him. You now have to stand in line just to get beans and rice. If someone in the line, probably the police, doesn't rob you.
Why the fuck don't you try going to a place and checking it out thoroughly before you open your fat mouth??!!
Robespierre must be spinning in his grave.
The USA had better wake up, and soon. The argument we press on the world loses all value by virtue of our attempted force-feeding. The Terror is alive and well, and we, the USA, are its face.
Paine
Ya gotta love the logic of economic sanctions and embargoes.
Rep. Burton: Ok, folks, here's the deal. If the world's despots won't treat their people well, then we're going to shut them off from the world, and starve their people until they do.
Citizen: So, we hurt the people in order to help them?
Rep. Burton: No, we help them become democratic.
Citizen: Has it ever worked?
Rep. Burton: No.
Citizen: Do you expect it to work?
Rep. Burton: No.
Citizen: Does it ever hurt the despots, or influence them to change?
Rep. Burton: Seems not to.
Citizen: But we shouldn't try a different approach, and maybe engage them?
Rep. Burton: Not until they become a democracy like we want them too.
Quiet Burp @ 32:
Geographically, it's on the island of Cuba. Legally, it's American soil.
Sorta like how John McCain was born on American soil, even though his birth took place near the Panama Canal. (Just think, had his mother gone into labor off the American base, McCain would not be eligible to run for president.)
capnmike @ 35:
My wife is Venezuelan. I have traveled to Venezuela extensively, and lived there for some periods of time. Chavez is an incompetent monster. All of his support comes from ignorant uneducated people, whom he has bought with a few clinics (read "deathtraps") and hand-outs. He is rapidly ruining Venezuela's economy. The streets, clean 15 years ago, flow knee-deep in garbage. The money is worthless (try a 24% inflation rate) there is little food left in the stores and what there is is of the lowest quality. If you do not sign a statement committing yourself to supporting chavez, it is almost impossible to get a job. Dengue fever, TB, and other diseases are on a marked rise. He has squads of Cuban mercenaries there to terrorize people who do not support him. 2 people were shot to death in the street in front of my wife's family's house two days ago, and the bodies lay in the street for 4 HOURS before anyone came. Chavez regularly gives Venezuelan ID's to Iranians and Iraqis so they can sneak into the US. Their postal system is totally non-functional. Meanwhile Chavez is buying 5 attack submarines from the Russians, has already purchased 500,000 AK47's, and attack helicopters. And nationaliizes (read "steals") any business that he feels like taking over. Without paying for it. Empresas Polar, the largest food company in Venezuela, and manufacturer and distributor of dozens of vital products, has moved to Colombia in order to get away from him. You now have to stand in line just to get beans and rice. If someone in the line, probably the police, doesn't rob you.
Why the fuck don't you try going to a place and checking it out thoroughly before you open your fat mouth??!!
Perhaps if your wife's well-to-do brethren in Venezuela had spent more time and resources educating the poor, vesting the disenfranchised, tending to the sick, there might have been a lesser chance of Chavez coming to power in the first place.
But no. The Venezuelan elite, like the rich pigs in the USA (and those of us who desperately wish to be rich, at the expense of our own well-being, and that of our depressed lower classes), sought only to do for themselves. The salt in the wound burns, yes?
Send your wife home. Go with her. Arm the pissant elites cowering in their gated communities, terrified of the pobrecitos roaming the filthy Caracas streets, and fight to "liberate" yourself from the soiled masses, or do better than that, and share the dream of prosperity with them. The same lesson applies to the Batistas who fled like dogs, grabbing everything they could strip from the country on the way out of Dodge. Had they done the right thing in the first place, their greed would not have surpassed their humanity, while it remained intact.
Economic revolution is fueled by righteous indignation. It cannot be appeased. It is a bloody affair. And sadly, it needn't take place. Modern peoples of wealthy nations who suck the marrow of their underclassmen deserve what comes to them, and that "what" is certainly not continued license to deprive the majority of their nations from life, liberty, and (equal) pursuit of happiness.
Freedom for all, or freedom for none.
Paine
The worst tyranny in Cuba is located in the illegally U.S. occupied territory at Guantanamo Bay.
I don't think we should be hitching our progressive wagon to Castro (or Chavez for that matter). As much as I can't stand Bush - there's no comparison between Castro and Bush. I Cuba, you can't even LEAVE! Imagine that! YOu say, "Hey, this system isn't for me", but the government tells you that you're not allowed to leave. YOu're a hostage. Do I even have to go into all of the other civil liberties that just don't exist in Cuba?
And this idea that communism can exist in any other way is wishful thinking. Social democracy is tenable with civil liberties - but communism? It's the flip side of the Laissez Faire coin: nice in theory, but cannot work.
It's not about hitching one's wagon to anything, it is about the fundamental sense in recognizing differences reasonably and still finding ways to co-exist, preferably in ways that enhance our neighbors lives where they intersect, instead of sniping and throwing shit over the hedge.
Chavez is far from an absolute communist -- you may have issues with how he does things -- but there are common interests enough between our nations that we need not stage coups against him to get exactly what our oil barons want, which is carte blanche to rape the earth under little brown people's feet the world over, shed of any responsibility or taxes to do business. Is this a nation of spoiled-rotten 16-year-old debutantes that must only have EVERYTHING OUR WAY or we simply stomp and bitch and declare the party over?
The progressive argument here is not to validate any system, it is to shout down blind intolerance where it gets in the way of peace and equitable exchange of ideas and the fruit of our collective labors.
I really like having holidays in Cuba, I hope that nothing changes and the US people stay out.
Have to go back to Lewis Black on that one :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCDZMWVWuc
someone should tell danny b the cold war has been over for almost twenty years!
also, i saw him speak for a student debate event in 2000 and he spent almost two hours trying to blame bill clinton for all the evils in the world. i think the debate was supposed to be about gambling or something.
Donna did very well in her argument for diplomacy. She sounded like someone who wants to solve things, and the other guy sounded like someone who is stubborn and old.
Perhaps if your wife’s well-to-do brethren in Venezuela had spent more time and resources educating the poor, vesting the disenfranchised, tending to the sick, there might have been a lesser chance of Chavez coming to power in the first place.
But no. The Venezuelan elite, like the rich pigs in the USA (and those of us who desperately wish to be rich, at the expense of our own well-being, and that of our depressed lower classes), sought only to do for themselves. The salt in the wound burns, yes?
Send your wife home. Go with her. Arm the pissant elites cowering in their gated communities, terrified of the pobrecitos roaming the filthy Caracas streets, and fight to “liberate” yourself from the soiled masses, or do better than that, and share the dream of prosperity with them. The same lesson applies to the Batistas who fled like dogs, grabbing everything they could strip from the country on the way out of Dodge. Had they done the right thing in the first place, their greed would not have surpassed their humanity, while it remained intact.
Economic revolution is fueled by righteous indignation. It cannot be appeased. It is a bloody affair. And sadly, it needn’t take place. Modern peoples of wealthy nations who suck the marrow of their underclassmen deserve what comes to them, and that “what” is certainly not continued license to deprive the majority of their nations from life, liberty, and (equal) pursuit of happiness.
Freedom for all, or freedom for none.
Paine
Like the typical knee-jerk buttwipe you are, you ASSUME my wife's family is rich, elite, etc...they are NOT...they are quite poor. Fortunately they are at least smart enough to see what a total failure communism is. Economic Revolution is fueled by jingoistic morons who blather too much and do too little. Stay in Canada and STFU
Too bad Dan Burton didn't have John McCain handling getting his name on the ballot.
steve @ 41 -- another misinformation re Cubas leaving the country. There are restrictions on Cubans leaving, the Cuban govt makes it near impossible for young people to just travel as we're used to. But it's not impossible, and getting the documents is a relatively simple process. I know many Cubans come for visits to Canada, return to Cuba, and come again. Often. And thousands upon thousands have told the cuban govt they don't like the system, and they've been allowed to leave. The problems often are at the other end, where countries like Canada has severe restrictions on giving Cubans tourist visas. The biggest problem is the immigration laws between US and Cuba. More than 20 years ago the two countries agreed that up to 20,000 cubans a year could leave to US under US visa laws. Since that time the US, no surprise, has screwed the deal, only giving a few hundred visas each year. That's because they'd rather see Cubans on rafts than let them come to the USA legally. Great for propaganda. But yes, Cubans can not travel as easily or readily as we can, but it's not as extreme as you and others make out. As for civil liberties, the Cubans do restrict civil liberties, freedom of speech, press etc, but human rights such as food, medicine, education, are perceived to be more important. And remember, this is a country under war siege -- and any country when at war sacrifices civil liberties -- including what USA did in WWI and WWII and oh yeah, what they're doing now in phony war against terrorism.
This all so crazy. We do all sorts of business with China and Russia but not Cuba. China and Russia are still communists, but have loosened up to enjoy capitalism. But still we cannot have anything to do with Cuba. I think it is all because of the Cuban groups in Miami that have the politicians by the testicles that have kept us from normalizing relations. It is stupid.
Matthews:
"If free trade with Cuba brings democracy, why hasn't it worked with the rest of the world trading with Cuba? It doesn't seem to have moved them away from tyranny, has it?"
I'm so sick of this ill-informed crap conflating a social system and an economic system as though they are the same thing. Chris Matthews, democracy and capitalism are NOT the same thing! Nor is tyranny and socialism, or even tyranny and communism.
"Free trade" is really what this whole thing is about. America is pissed because Castro has never allowed us to move in there with our megacorporations and set up shop, selling the Cubans crap they don't need and taking their money back to America with us. They refuse to be economically and ideologically colonized, and we hate them for that. That's why we don't mind trading with China, who is just as bad or worse -- they welcome our materialistic junk.
#48 There are billboards in Cuba with large pictures of men being tortured at Guantanamo with the word Fascistas. We don't see those pictures too often. But Congress did...and it is still going on. So what does that say about US?
Impeach cheney and bush @ 49:
WTF? The Soviet Union still exists? There's still a Warsaw Pact? What Alternate Reality have I stumbled into? >.<
L.A. Confidential @ 9:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I think the Fear and Hate drum beat is a little old now on the Cuba issue. Don't the Repuglicans realize that capitalism and democracy don't always come out of a gun? And WTF is this bullshit about freedom and democracy for Cubans needing to be restored? How about restoring them right here in the Fascist States of America?
Nicole there is the question of whether Castro would have been a "despot" or "tyrant" except for the unneccasary oppressive sanctions. An outside observer might be more likely to apply those terms to the people imposing the sanctions.
Impeach cheney and bush @ 49:
I agree, those Cubans in Miami are real scumbags like most Rethugs are.
Trade brings in money. Money buys computers. Computers connect to the internet. The internet encourages discussion and learning. Learning encourages public participation in government. Increased public participation in government is inherently democratic.
Either that, or Cubans will spend all day downloading donkey porn. That's fun, too...;-)
capnmike @ 35:
Nahhh, the personal anecdote reads like something to seriously doubt, the weapons purchases are perfectly legal and the scary bit about allowing Iranian and Iraqis to obtain IDs to eventually terrorize Amurica is laughable.
It's the white, rich, greedy, selfish mofos in Venezuela who do not support Chavez, while the brown, black and very poor do support him. I'm sure the non-supporters would have the rest of us believe that the brown, black and very poor are too 'ignorant' to know any better, although they've lived under rich, white rule for decade upon decade with nothing but misery to show for it.
Does Donna have a Republican opponent in the General? It would be nice to know she already has the office. I know she lives in a highly Democratic district but it would still be nice to know she doesn't have to worry.
.
MEMO to MAtTHEWS:
If free trade did bring Democracy, then why, with nearly 75% of household products made in China, is China not Democratic and still a Communist State?
.
The whole issue with Cuba is a question of real estate. Look at what happened during the German reunification. A lot very valuable real estate went backto their pre- WW2 owners.
The whole embargo policy is to make sure that the real estate doesnt change hand in a way that would make it impossible to give it back for basically free to the pre revolution owners: the big multinational companies and the rich Cubans in Miami.
Karen @ 37:
Rep. Burton: Oh, and BTW, in a minute allow me to show you my impersonation of Gallagher as I shoot this watermelon to prove that Vince Foster did not kill himself.
qwert @ 58:
She will have a Republican opponent but it is a very strong Dem district and she is basically assured a seat in the House especially since she beat a 7 term Dem. Plus I presume it is a heavily Afro American district as her Dem opponent who she beat was also black. I can't imagine with the Obama dynamic playing out in this cycle that she would do anything but win.
jimbo92107 @ 56:
This worked well in china until of course the state stepped in and stopped any traffic that they seem to think is not acceptabel to keeping the status quo. And of course don't forget that Yahoo...I think ..turned over a person who was writting negative stories about China to the Chinese officials and he is now in jail for a very long prison term for some goofy charge of undermining the state or something like that.
Here is the story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4221538.stm
Greup @ 60:
This could be cleared up really fast...all the right winged Cubans have to say is GOD GAVE US THIS LAND SO IT"S OURS FOREVER.....seems to work for the jews.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/columnone/la-fg-hilltop27dec27,1...
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-outpost18feb18,1,37...
capnmike,
For you to claim that Venezuela's problems are a result of Chavez (and not the previous governments who signed deals the people disagreed with that caused poverty to shoot up in a country that was already poor or the elites who’ve openly tried to harm their fellow citizens to create an environment in which they can regain control, usually un-democratically) is complete ignorance on your part. If the people were ignorant could it be a result of the fact that they had no functioning educational system? It's amazing to me that you'd align yourself with people who, in 2002, dissolved all branches of government, the constitution that was voted on in a national referendum (by over 70% of the country, the “ignorant uneducated people”) and set up a military dictatorship. The inflation you speak of is a result of two things (one of them connected to the food shortages). One, people's purchasing power has increased. This is a problem only because of how the monetary system works. Idiots like you, who probably know jack crap about economics, don’t say anything about how inflation is TRULY created (in the monetary system thanks to fractional reserve banking, which allows banks to create wealth out of nothing). Two, the supply of food and commodities has decreased thanks (as openly stated by the business class in Venezuela) to the fact that the capitalists there have intentionally cut off supplies to cause massive pain to regular Venezuelans, whom they care nothing about, neither do you. The government has responded by opening stores that people can buy food at as a result of shortages. Your elite buddies, by doing this, are only cementing the poor’s connection to the revolution there. The same exact thing happened in Nicaragua during the Contra attacks. Same disgusting people as yourself. Local elites, paid off by their US masters, who want to (to use Nixon's phrase in regards to Chile) "make the economy scream". No one wants their policies so they’d like to create a disaster in which they can emerge from. There was structural poverty, lack of access to healthcare and education in Venezuela and Chavez is doing what people like you are indifferent to, helping the poor (the majority of the country) "ignorant uneducated people"'s lives better. If the area that your wife lived in was clean and safe it’s probably because you and your wife were relatively well off in that country and what the hell do you care that the majority of everyone else there is in absolute misery? Your wife’s street was clean.
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