Democratic Debate Open Thread
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Feb 20, 2008 7:01pm
You can stream the debate live here. Hillary Clinton needs to score big tonight, Barack Obama needs to hold serve. Give us the play by play...
John Amato: Hillary needs this debate. Kos has some polling data. Obama sounds like he has a cold. I bet C. Brown asks Hillary the McCain/NY Times question first....And the Tancredo's must be freaking out seeing Jorge Ramos from Univision asking a few questions.
I think it's a plus to go after BushCo. every chance they get. Will Hillary and Barack be asked to raise their hands if they don't believe in evolution? It's refreshing to hear a decent discussion on immigration.
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i would pay to see them make out.
FIRST?
Nothing in Texas is unlike a sporting event. I so glad I don't live there.
KICK HIS ASS HILLARY!!!!
I think either of them would make for a better president compared to McCain, and what Bush has done to us.
Winning a debate is kind of meaningless to me at this point. But like Texas and Ohio, the debate is a must win for Hillary.
Just seeing those two on stage makes me smile.
GO DEMOCRATS GO!!!!!
another debate unavailable to those with just a normal TV
what in the hell is she wearing. is that some sci fi aqua driven breathing apparatus around her neck? Didn't anybody look at that girl before sending her out there.
What's up with the unbiassed moderator's nose?
Scooter @ 8:
u should be able to watch it on www.CNN.com
sounds like "pretty kitty" hillary showed up tonight.
greatest administration ever
President Clinotn
Vice President Obama
Attorney General Edwards
Prisoners Bush/Cheney
mattm @ 12:
:-)
That's the first time she's ever stressed that her campaign is 'your campaign'.
And obama has a cold.
the money spent on the war wouldnt have gone to infrastructure
it was borrowed from China...... if we didnt go to war we wouldnt have borrowed the money
Please ease up on the clapping and wooing as we go on.
Hillary always scores big in debates, so no prob.
For all that Blitzer is an annoying pain in the ass, is Campbell Brown the best CNN can do?
he has the prepared speech out of the way
now lets see what he has to say
GonzoD @ 19:
At least it was Lou Dobbs or Glen Beck
and she is kinda cute
that cuba answer (err comparison) sums it all up
Clinton = old washington attitude
Obama = a little thing called diplomacy
mattm @ 22:
how was his answer different??
kaT @ 18:
Ya.......it goes like this "cackle, cackle, cackle, shriek, shriek, cackle"
Roger fom Ohio, who are you supporting for President and where are you from??
Barrett D @ 1:
That was too funny. But seriously, they need to stop attacking each other. I can't stand it when candidates from the same party discredit each other. They need to set aside their egos and work together.
mattm @ 9:
I know, is she wearing a suit jacket or a cape?? Maybe both! Reminds me of The Count from Sesame Street.
sounds to me,that they're saying the same thing.
Hillary's Cuba answer was terrible.
Campbell Brown: won't you shut up? We didn't need you putting words in Barack's mouth before he could answer the question.
Yes, I will talk.
LOL Obama said what http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVy80H8G_oo
She's lying. Favored diplomatic relations with Iran for years? Last summer she said she would not meet with the Iranian leader.
Same shit.
Different day.
Too bad Edwards isn't still in the race.
Looks like your broken country will stay broken for a while yet.
Too bad!
Snore......Hillary is done.
John @ 25:
Im in North West Ohio and Im voting for Hillary on March 4th
Tomorrow at 7pm at Whitter High School in Toledo a Clinton Rally
I loved her answer to the "testing" question. She says "well I think everyone knows I've been tested." WTF? is she positioning her marital issues for political gain?
There was something lame about the last question - it was the bullshit question you always get asked in lower level job interviews. Two points: one, who do you trust who smiles all the time (car salesmen, megachurch pastors, 'politicians', clowns, etcetera); and second, I've found in business to always watch out for anyone who repeatedly refers to me by my first name ('john, i just ...', 'john, i just think...', etcetera)...
mudshark @ 349:
What?!?!! None of these people write their own speeches! It's been like that since the 1900's
YouCantHandleDaTruth @ 345:
Exactly. READ her reasoning. It is common sense.
Few Senators believed Bushco was as dangerous at it turned out. But even if they did, Senators are aware that the process is not morally pure, and never has been. Only leftists believe in moral purity, and that because their HUGE biases are rarely examined or contextualized, such as here, where you condemn her, but have not read her speech explaining her vote -- a speech which makes FAR MORE sense than anti-clintonistas will admit.
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html
no question about McCain
AJ Joe - That IS scary, wow. Man.
almost anonymous @ 363:
What would be the point?
A.J.Joe @ 356:
bullshit.
Reading all this about Obama's lack of experience, I have to put my word in. This may be a cynical view, but it seems like today the role of the POTUS is not to sit around writing up legal documents and implementing great ideas, cause really nothing they want to do seems to get done (well, except for the Iraq war, but we all know that wasn't actually Bush's idea). The POTUS is really just a motivational speaker for the country and an ambassador to the rest of the world. So why not have the least divisive and most inspiring figure be the president?
So in a perfect world of Presidents that are actually smart people who make things happen and not just sociopaths, Ralph Nader or (R.I.P.) Paul Wellstone would be our president, so in this imperfect world, lets vote for the guy who inspires us.
Thanks for reading my very flawed opinion, maybe it will make sense to someone :)
almost anonymous @ 363:
I don't think there should have been, not yet anyway. I only heard one shoe drop, and I'm waiting for another thud.
One can claim no longer that debates are Obama's weak spot. He shone strong tonight.
Perhaps I need some ignorance fought here, but why does Obama never bring up the [URL=http://obama.senate.gov/press/070628-obama_lugar_sec/] Lugar-Obama nonproliferation initiative[/URL]? Bipartisan work to rid a dangerous and reemerging Russia of WMDs and conventional weapons? Seems like a good policy and a substantive point to raise.
porkchop @ 365:
the pundits were talking about how they should answer that question and who it helps, but it wasn't asked
mudshark @ 349:
Um, in case you didn't know - All of the presidents have speech writers. .. sorry to break it to you. All of the presidents have a cabinet, too.,. the cabinet (a group of people) helps the president to make good decisions... again, sorry to break it to you. Um, it's not just one president sitting at one desk doing everything!
Try wikipedia, maybe, or google... we all need a little help.
timmm @ 354:
Me neither, but it does take someone who gives a damn about MOST of the populous ...Bush didn't ...I don't think Clinton will be able to relate either. To continue saying she's got 'experience' ties her closely to institutions that Americans right now are giving very very low marks
im watching the feed....and omg, barack has groupies
hope none of them have a big ass and own a blue dress
LeMansChamp @ 359:
That's precisely what she's doing.
VoR @ 358:
I was refering to ALL that a President does.
get it?
now look who's throwing tired quips
WOW !! I just saw a twenty second clip of a question being asked by Campbell Brown on CNNI ... she is so beautiful I forget what she asked.
Kim @ 370:
I refer you to my last post.
get it?
Paul in LA @ 362:
blah, blah, blah
its the same excuse that kerry made
at least edwards manned up and admitted it was a mistake
clinton wont
so eff her and her reasons
and why dont you link to her cheerleading for the war....
Maybe Carlin is right, it's the public the suck, the politicians are just the best we can produce. It's the way of things, but that doesn't really answer immediate issues, so we get stuck making choices we don't want to have to make. But what makes Obama interesting, is that he actually makes the debate remotely interesting. If it was Clinton v. Edwards, for instance, would there be excitement? A Clinton v. McCain election is like a Gore v. Bush election - it matters, but you know it's just the same old thing. Maybe this is no different, but the very fact that it is a real feeling, or at least an argument, that this is different says something... We could expect with Obama a couple years of excitement and then some sober reassessment, it always seems to happen, but doesn't it seem if Clinton ends up being crap everyone says, well, what did you expect; whereas if Obama is president and then disappoints, you get a feeling that voting / politics is meaningless, just channeling control. Obama is basically younger people's chance to see if politics matters.
It is amazing how CNN lets Obama and Clinton get away without actually answering questions. The follow-up sucks.
Take the Cuba discussion for instance. Clinton and Obama both suggested that as soon as Cuba shows signs of "democracy" that steps could be taken to normalize relations. Well, what about Communist China? Why did they get most favored nation trading status from the United States? Because they did such a great job murdering citizens who were demonstrating for democracy? Because the Chinese government leaders are such great fans of political freedoms and religious freedoms? Darfur? Tibet? Hello???
Here's a follow-up that should have been asked: Why the double standard between China and Cuba?
Then they were asked the "superdelegate" question and neither one answered it. Neither Obama or Clinton would agree that the superdelegates should simply vote the way their state/district voted! Let the American people decide one way or the other, not a bunch of insider party hacks.
Pete&Pete @ 367:
This is the child's view of the Presidency, or maybe that of the media.
In an era of high-technology, the President and Congress will either screw the future to the wall, or help redeem it. That isn't a matter of gladhanding and being 'least divisive.' We are faced with enormous problems, not least of which is the opposition to positive change, the Republicans who have NO VISION, and so fearmonger.
--from FDR's first inaugural speech.
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres49.html
Scooter @ 8:
You can watch the debate on cnn.com -- just turn off the screen saver so that you don't lose the picture every ten minutes. I don't have cable either. Sorry if someone else already replied to this one, haven't been through all of the comments yet.
Clinton was gracious at the end, Obama was sharp. What a party!!!
YouCantHandleDaTruth @ 371:
Agreed. Listening to her Cuba diplomatic stance, HRC wants to know what the US gets out of it, right after talking about the freedom and human rights of the Cuban people. Flawed logic.
Clinton's reducing Obama to ONE line in his very detailed speeches is childish.
The biggest issue with me is electability to me. The right wing wants to run against Hillary. I and the polls say that Obama is more electable. The turnouts to his speeches show he is more electable.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 377:
The leftist refusal to consider the context continues.
Anyhow, the point is that she voted on that Resolution, and her vote changed nothing. She knew it wouldn't -- she argues that voting in favor helped the UN Resolution she believed Bush would have to seek.
That he betrayed the country is not her fault.
Is it me or did Clinton use a bunch of Edwards talking points? Think maybe she's courting his delegates?
Vote Hillary if you want McCain to be president
Ron @ 384:
The ticket will be Obama/Clinton.
The rightwing 'wants' whatever it wants. The election will not be stolen, will be a landslide, and will be accompanied by the pick-up of 40 seats in the House, and five in the Senate.
It will be a night of crying at the AEI.
LeMansChamp @ 359:
In an interview after the debate, Hillary will speak melodramatically about her six years as a POW. After she'll discuss how her father was a wild catter and a cattleman and he also was a Mexican immigrant and her mother was Miss Texas in 1887. Then she'll claim La Bomba to be her favorite song and say she and Bill speak Spanish at home on a regular basis. Gotta get that Latino vote. Halfway through the interview, she'll pause for a siesta.
"She will also offer to mow Tim Russert's lawn for $3.00 a week," he continued. "Have you ever tasted her homemade tortillas?"Mark "Marcos" Penn asked. "They are mucho bueno."
I was refering to ALL that a President does.
get it?
now look who’s throwing tired quips
Well then you need to seriously consider working on your writing style, because it certainly seems like you thought up till a moment ago that presidents write their own speeches.
I'm allowed to throw quips...tired and otherwise. I'm a random dude, sitting in his cozy living room, surfing the web. She's trying out to be "the leader of the free world." I think you should either raise the standards you have for her, or lower them for me.
mattm @ 9:
Those are called pearls. Maybe play jewelery would have been more to your liking?
Abbybwood @ 379:
both parties are still scared shitless of the cubans in florida
it is time to start trade with cuba
neamhni @ 386:
they both did
edwards had a huge impact on the campaign
Canuknotusa @ 33:
That is the understatement of the day.
clinton wants to play every angle. Wants to poll test and be fluid in her position. What is this crap she would want a president to meet with them before vetting them. Of course you meet with them when you know you are serious.
Obama's approach is understood that that is like breathing. that is leadership.
Its not always about looking like you are "working hard." Which is what Clinton is GREAT at. She works very very hard. But spends more time making sure that ALL her bases are covered rather than just take a stand RIGHT or WRONG
Canuknotusa @ 33:
I feel your pain.
oops meant wouldn't want to meet
Those chairs look damn uncomfortable. They're both wiggling.
Someone should ask how in the hell she would be able to fix the economy when she can't even manage her campaign finances.
Sure your in NW Ohio, It's Whitmer and I hope she can fill the gym.
clinton sounds like a politician, obama sounds like he is a human with a personal ethic. maybe it's politics as usual, but there does feel like something really special about him. he opens a space to breath again in this country. i trust him way more, and i'm sure he can pick enough advisors around him to deal with any 'experience' problem.
grochi harzep @ 40:
They are uncomfortable. Hard to sit with all that lobby cash in your back pocket.
All Obama has to do is not look desperate. He appears so far to be statesman-like and cool, which is how he wins. Listen for Clinton to get snarky and short.
Ohio Proud @ 42:
Im planning on going......... Im in Defiance Ohio
It's called a progressive majority!
uncle joe mccarthy @ 392:
Partially. Lead the world in dropping sanctions, but keep American corporations the hell out unless Cubans want them there. And I don't mean the rich ones that live in Florida. They are mostly the scum that nobody in Cuba wants back anyway.
Geez people; what is with all the nasty comments towards Hillary? Hopefully you're not all Democratic supporters, otherwise, we have some real problems.
Seriously, can't you just set aside the hatred for a moment, and judge her based on what she is saying? She has a lot of great points.
If your point is to somehow make Obama look better by attacking Hillary, it ain't working!
Jon @ 103:
Im confused. Obama has done nothing but repeat what Hillary just said, and HE's dominating?
Ajt @ 391:
the texas student was wearing pearls? it looked like a neck brace
she was cute tho
How did I miss the debate?
Paul in LA @ 380:
Yea, it is a "child's view", but I think it is, albeit sadly, true. I'll be pleasantly surprised if any major changes that they are talking about tonight are actually made by the next president (assuming its a D). And it seems like your FDR quote just validates my opinion, its all about vision, which the Republicans have none of and Hillary is trying very hard to have, and is failing.
VoR @ 390:
right.
so now it's about me.
whatever.
Tony @ 364:
And in Dallas no less, although I sure hope it's "bullshit" too - as timmm #366 so eloquent put it.
JHR @ 395:
Wouldn't matter what initial was beside her name. Could be a D or an R or an I or multiple letters like DUI and people would still talk badly about her. She brings out the worst in people, cuz, she's a vile woman. She's phoney. Her own party obviously is getting tired of her games. Repubs don't like her. Independants obviously are turning away from her. What's that leave? Not much.
An example of Hillary the People Person:
She never thanked the people who came out and voted for her in the last ten contests that she lost. She never even mentioned their states. If you were one of the people who voted for her in those ten states, how do you feel about Hillary not even bothering to thank you or mentioning your state. Don't worry, if she gets the nomination, she will come back to your state and pretend to care about you once more, until after the votes are counted.
Paul in LA @ 385:
like i said...it was the kerry reasoning
it was bullshit 4 years ago...its bullshit now
she voted for force but didnt expect bush to use force????? horseshit
stop being her supporter for one moment and deal with reality
I completely agree.
The Realist @ 396:
If she is asked the question 1st and they are close on issues, of course he's saying some of the same things.
A.J.Joe @ 356:
Grave lapse in security - I am petrified each time watching him mobbed after every speech. He is very friendly. Very seldom the Secret Service agents are close to his height (ie. his head is ALWAYS aticking out, easy to target from any angle/ distance), there are NEVER enough of them, the crowds are body-surfing them (Obama w/the agents) as they try to dig thru the mass of bodies and extended hands.
I've been saying it for quite a while he needs much better security !! Just ONE jerk would do ... Having NO screening is INSANE in this day and time. It was also in Dallas in 1963.
Pete&Pete @ 399:
Paul seems to be giving Bush alot of credit for intelligence if he truly believes what he is saying. It would mean Bush is the brains, and everything else that has been said for the last 7 years by the left is wrong.
Hillary lost the debate she looked like a deer in highlights. What stupid shit
"Change you can Xerox" how long did she stay up thinking that one up for Chris Matthews to jerk off too. On the super-delegates question she said they will do the right thing for the country like disenfranchise the black vote early and quickly.
Fuck you Hillary
You had 8 years for health care but did nothing.
Go and vote for Terri Schiavo, Flag burning, Video Games, movies and the Iraq war you fucking bitch.
Suck a bag of dicks her and her supporters
You gotta love Hill..she gave us a Hollywood ending. In the movie "American Sweethearts" Catherine Zeta-Jones character gives a speech towards the end of the movie...paraphrasing" Don't worry about me...I'll be fine" In the movie Jones plays a self-centered two faced movie star looking for sympathy for what she has just done. Life the movie!
Wow, Nick... what do you really think?
Okay, I missed the end (picked up my husband from the train). If I never see another debate between these two it will be too soon. Enough already, enough! No matter which one you support, is it really important to see either bickering with each other any longer? If it is then I truly don't understand politics at all.. What I would like to see is one or the other get with the day and age and say they would support unions or marriage (in the pure social contract form) for us homos, of course it's political suicide but it sure would be nice if we actually lived in 2008 and didn't hold the bullshit, antique mores subscribed to by hypocrites and christians so ineptly and dutifully for a millennia as litmus for a candidate. Oh well, don't ask/don't smell! Fuck-ups!
Pete&Pete @ 399:
The House of Representatives will be where most of the action is next year. And that's for the better -- the Congress should lead, and after years of Republican stymie, it is about to.
All we need is a smart enough Democrat team in the White House to help move the repairs forward, and to sign, not veto, increased CAFE standards, improved environmental policies, restructuring of the Justice Dept., and all the rest. There is a ton of new bills to be passed, and both Senators are well aware of the legislative process, and will be able to help enormously.
Thinking that the ideal President is non-controversial is why I quoted FDR -- who was excoriated for choosing social justice and public spirit over fearmongering and the dissociative selfishness of private privilege.
Nick Manning @ 409:
Yes, the Republicans have all their dicks in a bag, just for you.
Nick Manning @ 409:
I love that "suck a bag of dicks" line.
VoR @ 411:
He thinks if he trolls his Hillary-hatred hard enough, O'Reilly will give him a wet kiss.
It was interesting watching the people meter on CNN.com. Both candidates were consistently tied on every topic. The only time there was a discrepancy was when Hillary went negative on the plagarism charge. Her numbers dipped dramatically. The key for Hillary Clinton will be to praise Obama then point out how her plans do everything his do (praising the plans)then show how hers do
MORE If she would follow that concept she could pull even again.
ConcernedCanuck @ 402:
That's a strong comment. Care to elaborate? Also, look at post #409 to see what I mean. Comments like that add nothing to the debate.
Wow nick, you're such a mature and elegant commenter, great way to win over us undecideds.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 404:
I support Obama. However, unlike most of the leftist Hillary-haters, I didn't buy your particular brand of rhetorical mythology.
Kerry won in 2004, but we did not have legal elections, and it was stolen. No such luck this time, you Republican rat-fuckers.
Come on people, there's no way in hell the repugs will gain US office legally.
If Superman was a repug, Obama or Clinton would win by a landslide.
Stop fooling yourself.
is it me or did Hillary tan with Lindsay Lohan because her skin look like red oatmeal
Ron @ 384:
If the Republicans wanted to run against her, don't you think they would be giving her the free ride and not Obama?
"She brings out the worst in people, cuz, she's a vile woman."
Emphasis on the 'woman.' The misogyny just drips from their mouths.
at any rate,as I said way up thread,I would be happy with either candidate.
I just happen to feel that HRC is best suited to take on the repugs.She will fight to win,and that is something I like about her.Obama is a gifted man,but can he do the job and make the critical decisions on his own(yeah,yeah,go ahead,take your shots at me)and yes I understand all about advisors and speech writers.and I know that there is a cabinet(kitchen?)they have one there don't they? LOL
Nick Manning @ 422:
What did your mommy do to you? Geez.
Obama got zero votes in Harlem read it here LOL
JHR @ 418:
#409 is a bit much. She's a used car salesperson trying to sell you a 79 Pinto pretending it is new and improved.
Strawberry bitch that a good name for hillary
A trade time out? What the hell would there be left to buy?
Don't miss Bill Clinton in BG tomorrow!
She's getting snarky and short....
you mean you will have a department with more than 2 guys in a closet who scrutinize trade items. huh thats a good idea
impeach? @ 50:
...right on cue ;)
Has Tonya Harding skated through and hit Obama in the kneecap with a leadpipe yet?
ConcernedCanuck @ 41:
Yeah, yeah - she's loan everyone 5 million.
How about a 90 day moratorium on these two doing the pinchy thing with their fingers?
2 good people here, hold your fire please
john haskell @ 43:
In all honesty?I don't "trust" either of them.
If I could(I can't I'm Canadian)I would probably hold my nose and vote for Clinton.I just feel she is the more substantial candidate of the two.Plus her Presidency would drive the wingers right out of their minds.(admittedly that wouldn't be such a constructive scenario).Still....
porkchop @ 52:
why do u republicans come here??
grochi harzep @ 40:
Dualling vibrators.
Ron McD @ 56:
You watchin' American Idol?
Hillary's first day in office...she mentioned everything under the sun including green jobs (????), but no mention of fixing healthcare.
Roger from Ohio @ 58:
Name calling isn't going to make your opinion true, son. No Repubs in this house.
Roger from Ohio @ 58:
Hose down cheerleaders? Heehee
Ok, How is Hillary going to survive 30 days between OH/TX And Penn. without a huge win(s)?
She says Texas and Ohio a lot, that's good for her to focus those two in her answers. The foreclosure issue is a biggie (even for the hairdresser but I don't think you can freeze the interest on mortgages for five years without a huge negative ripple effect across all of the investment markets in the US.
Roger from Ohio @ 58:
Not a repub, Pork called it, I just noticed it.
ConcernedCanuck @ 41:
And, where was SHE for the past 6 or so yrs during her Senate term ..
Naming the post offices after some pols flacks ..
She is so full of crappollllaaaa ..
Oh boy, here comes the indentured servitude thing for the illegal workers. Lucky them
Great - let's create jobs in another country. Mexico!!!
They're both doing well, in my opinion.
I agree they are both decent candidates ... I'll take either one of them over McCain ANY day.
bilhelm-X @ 65:
Everyone in the markets agrees...freezing interest rates would kill everyone.
Paul in LA @ 424:
Wrongo again Paul. You are just full of wrong analysis. I've voted for many women, and if given the right candidate, would gladly vote for another. She wouldn't be the one. EVER. She is old school politics glorified. Her and Bill have as many government connections as Bush and Cheney. Now that would be some change. From a R to an D.
ConcernedCanuck @ 428:
Your anti-Clinton troll was less nasty than #409, a well-known troll.
Campaigns are almost moot at this point. Either we have a democracy at the end of the year, with Dems to be in charge, or we are standing in knee-deep shit waiting for the coffee break to end (and we have to stand on our heads some more).
Nick Manning @ 429:
you fubar.
ConcernedCanuck @ 389:
She is a PINATA !!! Ready to be one for sure ..
The Realist @ 423:
Do you think Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck and other right wingers would say that they would vote for her over McCain if they weren't up to something? These people only do these things to confuse the uneducated voter. Do you really think they would vote for her?
Ted @ 290:
Isn't that what Hillary has been doing?
I think Hillary would be more effective if she stays in the Senate.
The CNN anchor on cable is trying to spin the applause at the conclusion of the debate as pro-Hillary applause. Strange. They shouldn't spin so aggressively.
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