So, what does Clinton do now?
By Steve Benen Wednesday Feb 20, 2008 8:30amNo matter which candidate one prefers, it’s probably fair to say Hillary Clinton’s campaign is not where it wants or needs to be. The question, of course, is what the one-time frontrunner is going to do about it.
“I’ve been there trying to turn around losing campaigns,” a true-blue Clinton loyalist painfully acknowledged Tuesday. “When nothing you do is working, you get desperate. This is starting to feel desperate.”
Clinton surrogates have tossed eggs everywhere, hoping something would stick. They’ve called Obama a wimp for refusing to debate in Wisconsin - a classic loser’s ploy.
They’ve accused him of breaking pledges and being an empty-suited orator.
The attacks bombed - especially the lighter-than-air charges that Obama plagiarizes key portions of his campaign spiel.
That, of course, is but a small sampling of the attacks from the last few weeks. Let’s see, once Obama’s fortunes rose and Clinton’s started to sink, we’ve heard attacks about inexperience, healthcare policy, Rezko, teenaged drug use, Exelon, “illegal” robo-calls, “present” votes, and tax increases, among other things.
If results from the last 10 contests are any indication, this kitchen-sink strategy isn’t exactly moving the needle in Clinton’s direction.
Obviously, most of Clinton’s key early advantages, most notably “inevitability,” have largely faded away. But what can her campaign do now to get things back on track?
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the clinton bunch will do anything and it is sad to see
i can only hope obama wins big on March 4th so as not to drag out the suffering
and not only did hillary loose this thing, but Bill's already shady legacy has suffered badly
What can she do to get back on track?
Nothing.
Negative won't work, Obama is sluffing off all the "usual" tactics.
She's done... except to prepare her concession speech for delivery in a few weeks.
I believe the Republican attack machine will eat Barack Obama up and make him another Willie Horton.
After this is done, the republicans will make Obama look like he belongs on the Amos and Andy Show.
Not fair, but after my many years, I know how it works.
She could start by talking about herself more than she talks about Obama. Every time she attacks him that is time she could be using to sell herself. By attacking all the time she appears defensive. Obama is not going to take the low road so she might want to see what the high road looks like for a change. Stop talking about what he's doing and instead talk about what she will do.
Hell, the way it's looking, we may see a Romney/Clinton ticket on the Republican side.
Obama makes a tactical suggestion months ago, and Bush criticizes it; Hillary always claims Obama is "inexperienced" Biggest problem for Republicans and Clinton today is: a version of Obama's suggestion was tried and IT WORKED
I've been asking this question for over a week now.
What has Obama accomplished since being in The Senate?(federal Level)
And no one has answered me,I've gotten some answers.But none were completely honest.
And when asked for more info,I got zilch.So, I ask this question again.
"What are Senator Obamas accomplishments since being in the US Senate?"
Ron McD@3
As the Clintons' did you are underestimating Obama. McCain has his own troubles and has to worry about that. I know the Pugs like the Clintons will try any and everything to win the Presidency.
in other words.How many bills that he authored have Passed?
What can she do? She can get behind Obama and come on in for the big win.
Alden @ 6:
Wow. A "version" of an Obama "suggestion" actually "worked"??? (I don't know what the hell that means) but...
The man is amazing!
He's....
The second coming of....
Well...
Everyone that was ever cool.
The world is so screwed-up right now....
We just need more "versions" of his "suggestions"...Quick!!!
Answer:
Energizing the electorate to vote for him to be the nominee, which is all that is technically required.
Good enough for me.
mudshark @ 7:
I've gotten this question from republican friends, and my favorite answer is, "I don't care." It's also fun to ask them why they have a Bush sticker on their cars, and what has that retard accomplished before or since his coup?
I don't need a president who has cured cancer or even passed a bill to fund Arpanet. I want someone who knows which way to steer the ship of state and who can be the face we present to the world. That's not Clinton, and it's damn sure not Grandpa McCrazy. I get all tingly when I think about being represented by a smart, multiracial, eloquent politician. We've looked like a bunch of idiots for the past 7 years, because, whether we like it or not, the faux-cowboy moron current occupant of the White House has been how the world has seen us.
Just a tv alert. McCain is about to speak regarding the NYT story about him. It'll start at nine according to Morning Joe.
Is crying still on the table?
There's no accomplishment that truly prepares someone for the office of the President. This question is unfailingly asked about any candidate who seems to burst upon the scene without having spent 20 years lurking in the halls of power. The current occupant of the White House, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, and Jimmie Carter were all accused of insufficient experience--in the end, it wasn't lack of experience that did in those of them who either didn't get the job or did poorly in it. What mattered was how well they rose to the occasion, something only exposure to the unique challenges of the office shows--and by that time it's too late to matter much.
Has Obama accomplished much since he's been in the Senate? No one who has more than a cursory familiarity with the Senate's operation and its obsession with seniority would ask such a bone-headed question.
mudshark @ 7:
Can you name me ANY bill sponsored by a Democrat that has passed in the last 7 years? Name me a bill sponsored by Hillary that has passed in her tenure as Senator. Maybe I'm wrong, but educate me, please.
They can concede to Obama, congratulate him, pledge unity and gracefully withdraw to fight another day.
However, since it's Hillary and she believes she's entitled to the job, I don't think that will happen.
There is not much she can do to get things back on track. Her problem from the start was and continues to be her extremely high negative rating among the public. Most voters have already made their minds up about her and either love her or hate her. That translates into a group of possible voters that can only go in one direction, down. It's staggering to see how quickly her numbers start to fall once Obama campaigns in a state. Her best and only real shot was to come out of the gate and beat all other challengers in Iowa, NH and SC making Super Tuesday a coronation. In fact, that was her strategy. However, a funny thing happened on the way to Iowa. People started listening to Barack and believing, rightly or wrongly, that he can change the country for the better. It's hard for HRC to sell hope to voters because she's saddled with her "35 years of experience" and people really want to see this country to in a fresh dirction. I don't doubt she'd do a far, far better job than Bush has, but then again a trained monkey would too so that's a pretty low bar to set. The fact is that she has not and cannot energize the voters like Barack can and in a year when people are clamoring for something new, she ain't it.
She should immediately, and gracefully, withdraw from the race and support Obama's candidacy. It is over for Hillary and we need her help to unite the party and the country. The GOP must not just be beaten. It must be put out of business and a new opposition party brought to the center stage.
As a registered Green, I don't want the Greens to be the replacement opposition, given my group's support for "Unsafe At Any Speed' Nader. the arrogant asshole, but we need a strong and honest counterbalance to the Democrats in place.
The country needs a new deck and dealer.
Hillarly Clinton should market herself. America knows only a tiny slice of this candidate and it is through the lens of the take bill down media. Who is Hillary Rodham, Clinton, for G*d's sake! Her managers are a bunch of arrogant, egotistical, ARROGANT losers that represent the worst of the Democratic "Party" that most Democrats and Independents are "sick and tired of being sick and tired "(F.L. Hammer), myseld included.
Had Hillary began her campaign presenting herself to the American people in a fashion based on her lifetime achievements; in a vibrant, and authentic style it would have been her contest to lose.
She will lose because of her own insecurity about herself or because of 'political machine' management forced on her to "manage" her campaign. She is a remarkable and electable candidate in her own right but tragically has locked herself (why?)into a box willingly, to be managed in whole by a most despicable, abhorrent, and slimey campaign machine.
I am deeply pained and incensed as an American, the "issues management" global corporatist politico-media complex so clearly transparent once again in this Presidential election 2008.
carwinrpc @ 16:
Right! What kind of question is that...
mudshark @ 9:
*the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
To name a few...
Hush now darling and enjoy the revolution
The Washington Post's Dana Milbank has a great column about Clinton's chances:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/20/AR200802...
Without cash? She's screwed, because we all know the more cash, the more popular you are with the Party Establishment. Stick a fork in her.
#7-What are Senator Obamas accomplishments since being in the US Senate?
The answer is not much, at this point.
But, I hope he wins the presidency and can move his vision for America forward. That'll be accomplishment enough as far as I'm concerned.
Another answer:
2006 Article regarding Obama
Dianne S @ 21:
Can't disagree. Mark Penn and Terry MacAuliffe are too slimy by half.
See, that's the thing. Democrats, and for the most part, a large portion of the voting public, have grown tired of the petty attacks in politics. As Obama isn't throwing the same rhetoric at Clinton, and didn't even when he was down, people are starting to feel that he can get thigns accomplished, not just point fingers when things aren't going his way.
At least, that's how I see it.
Ron McD @ 3:
I know exactly how you feel Ron McD. The Michelle Obama attack was just an appetizer for them. It's going to get MUCH worse.
The only solace I have is the fact that America has already spoken loud and clear - especially with the turnout of Dems in the Primaries. NO MORE REPUBLICANS!
(Not that I find anything negative about Dennis but) I think the country would even be willing to elect Kucinich over anyone the Republicans had to offer. If they steal this election it won't be by actual voter turnout, it would have to be something much more sinister - and I don't put ANYTHING past them. The Republican motto should be "Whatever It Takes".
I think she just waits until the convention, and the smoke filled room occupants finally anoint her, as was originally predicted.
Wait, this is a democracy, right?
If that happens, i will change my party to Indie.
..only 2 things are inevitable now:
1. She will need to make a public announcement to withdraw OR
2. Her desire to acquire power exceed any desire to do the right thing - and she will go after pledged and super delegates with free trips to Kazakstan...
mudshark @ 7:
Lugar-Obama bill concerning nonproliferation of nuclear arms. In other words, keeping nuclear weapons out of terrorists' hands.
mudshark @ 7:
So Bush had experience running Texas, (big deal) what has it gotten us? Gonzo? Meirs? Iraq? Cheney? Hillary's experience? She knows how to play the same old political games. What has she done? She didn't vote against the telecom giving the telecoms immunity for their part in illegal spy operations against U.S. citizens. Obama did. Actions speak volumes more than words.
The Financial Times is calling for Clinton to step aside:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d0a7b582-dfb9-11dc-8073-0000779fd2ac.html?ncli...
sezoomj @ 26:
Excellent pull. I had no idea.
Time for a gracious exit!
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
You know, I'm...
Ending this campaign.
"Solutions for America"?
Crappiest campaign slogan ever.
1.......cry
2.......point and blame
3.......disregard any and all states she's lost
4.......go even more negative
5.......cry and send tape to media
6.......get Bill to go on a campaign of peace and love
7.......issue statement of giant lawsuit against all states that didn't vote for a Clinton
8.......do the right thing and quit the race until next time before there is no next time
Attack McCain to prove she is capable of being a Dem nominee.
carwinrpc @ 16
Excellent! May I plagiarize this?
mudshark @ 7:
Does it matter Mudshark? I mean he's running on a campaign of change. That means he isn't entrenched in lobby love. Is that not what people are voting for? It seems kind of ludicrous to demand change, but not really. So electing an established veteran of lobbyist politics that has a D instead of an R is gonna make a change? And on that subject, does anyone really have political "experience" that are still trustworthy?
nothing, they're done. I fear that they won't realize this in time though. we don't need them damaging themselves further, or causing a rift in the party at the convention.
Ron McD @ 3:
I saw an example the other day in my hometown newspaper where a wingnut wrote in saying that it was important to know about Obama's "muslim faith" in this post 911 world!
The Rovian talking points are already making the rounds and the smearing has begun.
mudshark @ 7:
Mudshark - here is a helpful link to all of Obama's accomplishments. In short, he has accomplished a lot more since he was in the Senate than Senator Clinton did.
oh please, there are still some sad people out there running with the "what has Obama ever done?" line of 'I blame others for my own ignorance' logic? you obviously have internet access, fool, so go and do some damn reading.
Joementum @ 27:
Hillary IS exactly what the DLC clowns made her out to be - republican lite.
These inside Washington "strategists" are so F-ing clueless, they think the events that led to the country taking a sharp left turn, are the results of recent events. Middle class and poor Americans have known for years that the current economic system isn't working for them. Add all of the republican parties other insults on america into the equation, and I can see why my grandparents and parents wanted nothing to do with that party for 60+ years.
In light of this reality (2008 political landscape), any Democrat who would hire that union busting corporate asshole Mark Penn to run their campaign, is getting exactly what they deserve.
I guess having an adoring press and so called progresive blogosphere in your corner helps. I am truly disgusted by this whole process. I thought I could always turn to sites like HP and TPM to get the real story, but it turns out they are as corrupt and vacuous as the MSM. and the so called democrats who support obama using the nasty sexist rhetoric as seen in many of these coments (see 37) make me ashamed to call myself a democrat. Obama will lose in november and all of these whiny obama junkies will find a way to blame Hillary even for that. As opposed to Michelle Obama (who by the way is even more gag inducing than her husband) I have never been less proud of this country than I am now. Let the wailing begin....
The charge that Obama has not done anything in the Senate is the latest in her bag of tricks. Ignoring Lugar/Obama (getting control of nuclear materials in the former Soviet Union) and Obama/Colburn (ethics reform), and another one regarding soldiers at Walter Reed hospital (all of which passed), you also have his work on the immigration reform with Senator McCain. This will turn out to be a brilliant move, as McCain really doesn't want that issue brought up right now.
Nobody asks what Hillary has done other than voting for the war. You won't find much. She co-sponsored a bill with Senator Schumer to reduce tariffs for some of the companies that paid Bill as much as $400,000 for a speech. She sponsored a housing bill that was much praised by the Mortgage Banking association (paid Bill $125,000) who happen to be lobbiests for the people who brought you the subprime mortgate crisis. (It was also praised by the National Association of Realtors, $125,000.) It didn't pass, thank god. She sponsored bills to help Novo Nordisk (paid Bill unknown amount for a series of speeches), CISCO ($300,000), Colonial Life Insurance ($200,000), and a whole bunch of anti-Iran bills (you don't even want to know how much various Israel groups have paid Bill.)
I have not quite figured out what angle Clinton's largest payer is playing (Gold Service International, $800,000) they are a Columbian investment firm that is pretty difficult to figure.
There are two issues here -- one is that lobbiests and companies are paying Bill major dollars while his wife is in the Senate. The other is that this is where the $19.5 million that she put into her campaign when it was faltering came from -- making a nice little end run around campaign finance reform. You can only give up to $4200 to a candidate, but you can pay their spouse as much as you like for a "speech."
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2007/clinton-speeches/list/
Clinton should have thought of this when George Bush put his mug on camera and practically endorsed her as the Democratic nominee. He has a proven track record of being wrong on everything, but when I heard this, it made me wonder what kind of conspiracy was cooking in Republican circles.
My thought: If the Republicans want Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee, then we should steer far clear of her. These bastards have shown that they are capable of anything.
It's time for Hillary to fold her tents and get busy making sure that the next President in the White House is a Democrat. We'll see.
Ron McD @ 3:
Possible, but I don't think the Republican attack machine will work with the progressive people ready for a Democrat in the WH...the mudslinging MO will work for the people who already dislike Obama...not the ones who are going to put him in the Oval Office...
History is going to made in November.
onceler @ 44:
Couldn't have said it better myself.
drcc4 @ 17:
You'll never get an answer to this question from a Hillary supporter. That's the problem with her campaign, it's all about criticizing everyone else, and never about her accomplishments, because she doesn't have any. Unless you count her undying support for the war.
Then her supporters will yell and scream about how Obama gets so much favorable coverage, but will never acknowledge that the media has played along with this "comeback" theme for weeks now, constantly moving back the drop dead date for her campaign so they can continue to fill airtime and inches with the false "fractured Democrat" storyline.
As for the issue of Obama's legislative accomplishments, he has been a Senator for 3 years, two of which were under a Republican-controlled Congress. Yet in that time, he has co-sponsored the Lugar-Obama Non-proliferation bill and authored the Legislative Accountability and Transparency Act, of which a version passed by a 96-2 vote. So that's two examples of bipartisan accomplishments, in national security and ethics reform. And doesn't include less-sexy legislation he ushered in to improve disease-tracking, genetic-testing, hurricane relief, energy security, veteran's healthcare, etc.
That's quite a list of accomplishments for someone who was the new junior senator in the minority party for his first few years, who entered Congress with a big target on his back by those watching to see whether his political aspirations would lead to grandstanding based on his popularity upon entering office. But instead, he spent his time tackling real-world problems while Hillary sat back to gauge which way the political winds were blowing.
Ron McD @ 3:
ggg @ 46:
I think the venom you've just spewed is indicative of desperation. Perhaps you need to reexamine your priorities and post something that has less whine and more content.
Clinton was trying to run as a moderate and embraced the Iraq war and the fear message of the Republicans. Her stubborn refusal to acknowledge the error of her war vote reminds me too much of our current amateur executive branch. If you think Clinton could handle the republican onslaught after the way they handled the Obama threat your giving the Clintons too much credit.
The progressive message is strong and timely. I do hope this drops the DLC down a notch as well.
She doesn't deserve to be President. Her and her hubby sold us out on healthcare. All of us at one time or another have to suffer through our broke-dick healthcare system. The same system that the Clintons promised to fix. They didn't fix it then; they will not fix it now. Why do the Clintons deserve a second chance?
Besides, there is this issue of poppy-bush and Bill Clinton being a litle too chummy. I remember that old bag barbarra bush (ugliest first lady in US History) describing Bill Clinton as her adopted son. PLus, there seems to be a plethora of photos floating around of Bill and poppy playing golf together. I don't trust anyone who goes golfing with a bush family member.
Even when Hillary says bad things about bush the lesser. They are the same kind of calculated statements that poppy bush says about jr. Oh, he's a bit of a pooh-pooh head but we don't need to impeach him. Almost makes me think that she sends an appology letter to bush afterwards.
I have significant issues with Clinton as the nominee, but regardless of my feelings from a strategic point going negative at this stage seems to be an extraordinarily bad idea from a number of angles. First, that sort of thing doesn't seem to work well (if at all) against people in your own party. You might be able to go negative against Bush, since he's reviled by a lot of people, but talking down a primary candidate who's not so much different from yourself--and someone with a significant level of support among the same general group who's voting for you--seems to border on insulting people for a slight difference in preference.
Then there's the huge issue of "intra-party infighting" or whatever you want to call it. At best the Media Machine will tear Obama apart one way or the other (probably true). At worst, you're handing them some of the fuel. But from a campaign standpoint, the perception that you're possibly "siding with the enemy" is pretty dangerous.
On top of all that, going negative seems way too much like desperation in this kind of situation, and desperation doesn't sell.
Besides, if you're looking at the longer term calculus, Clinton has another shot even if Obama DOES get the nod, and DOES get elected--just a matter of waiting a while (or trying to get hooked up as VP, though that seems unlikely).
Basically it seems like a very, very bad idea to take that tack. I'm not convinced that it's over already, but Clinton's people don't seem to be aiming properly.
I'd typed up an additional comment about why I think Hillary has further issues with younger voters (or at the least most of the ones I know), but it ended up being long and not really on topic, so I'll just stop here.
"...what can her campaign do now to get things back on track?"
Gee, i dunno.
ggg @ 46:
A Lieberman like Democrat? Go on to the other side if you must. My postition is not Democratic, it Progressively human!
Nothing. She should quit now and submit to the will of the people.
She isn't a great politician, she isn't that good at her job, and she's owned by corporations.
Oh and she happens to be a woman.
I lost all respect for Hillary when ABCNews.com broke the story of the Hillary connected 527s in Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. She could spike those groups right now if she wanted to, but she is so desperate to win that she will slime Obama.
Eric Almighty @ 35:
Very good, thank you, I wiill pass this on to a couple of groups I'm in.
xoites defends Constitution @ 57:
Xiotes,
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. My sentiments exactly.
ggg @ 46:
When McCain gets his tired old ass up on the debate stage in October, and tells the American people everything will be great if we just take trickle down poverty to the next level, empower the corporatocracy even more, and escallate the Iraq debacle, he will be lucky to hold onto the deep south. Until the repukes go back to a Teddy Roosevelt or Eisenhower type of republicanism, they are cooked!
I agree with Atrios attack McCain or Huckabee show us how you are going to fight once you do win. Bloodying Obama isn't doing it for me or as it looks the rest of us. The McCain Iraq War standing is begging for a punch in the kisser and now she can point out the affair and dropping out of the primary election’s public financing system that is if they will let him. There are a number of thing that she could spank McCain with.
As for the Huckster I would tell her people to read Digby. :)
What a great Obama commencement speech!
"My friends say I'm a fool
But over and over
I'll be a fool for you
`cause you got personality
Walk, personality
Talk, Personality
Smile, Personality
Charm, personality"
ggg @ 46:
So anyone who supports Obama is corrupt and vacuous? And what about #37 was sexist? The Crying? She DID CRY, PUBLICLY, and it was transparently fake. If any of the male candidates cried and put on a show like that, we'd say the same thing, including Obama. Just look at Boehner, he gets flak all the time for his crying jags.
Adoring press? You mean the adoring press that did the "Obama attended a madrassa" and "Obama a closet muslim?" stories? Not gonna say that he doesn't get a lot of positive play in the press, but maybe that's because there are a lot of POSITIVE THINGS to say about him?
Clinton gets a hard time in the press NOW, but at the beginning of the primaries she was being reported on as the "Inevitable" candidate, remember? I guarantee you that no one on the progressive side of things is attacking/not supporting Clinton for her gender. They're doing it because she's a divisive, transparently power-hungry, globalist, corporatist, Iraq war supporting, Iran bombing supporting, FAKE. That being said, if she's the nominee, will I vote for her over McCrazy? Sure. Will I hold my nose while doing it? Definitely.
Recognize and rally 'round the front runner. That goes for Hill, that goes for us. I would've done it for her.
xoites defends Constitution @ 57:
Ouch!
Eric Almighty Says: What can she do? She can get behind Obama and come on in for the big win.
No shit! and quick too before there is any more Dem blood on the floor. Who cares how much Obama has accomplished as a Senator? He is the man right now and a unity ticket would cream McCain and the Repugs in November! Obama and Clinton both go down in history as the first black Pres and female VP.
This of course assumes that Obama really wants this piece of shit job. Cleaning up the mess of the past eight years will be no small feat. He may be the guy to do it, but if I was in his shoes I sure would like to have an experienced insider like Clinton as VP. She can be Obama's Cheney, without nearly as much darkness. She of course gets the easiest job in the world out of this deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fr1dm2Qdls&feature=related
And the clincher .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuTqgqhxVMc
ggg @ 46:
Pfff. You attack them for using "nasty sexist rehtoric" but then 2 sentences later you do the same thing to Obama and his wife.
You must be a Republican, because no progressive actually wants Hillary at this point. And the reason the Repugs want her is because she's the only one McCain could beat. If Obama gets the nomination it's all over for them.
Re: "what has obama done?" I think it says more what some of these guys voted for rather than against. For example, Hillary voted for the invasion. She defended it relentlessly until campaign time came around. I don't give a shit if all Obama did was show up to the sessions and listen to his ipod. He never was my favorite candidate, but I can promise you, because of how Hillary was a laptop when we needed her to use her influence the most, I will never vote for her. Not because she's a "bitch" or because she cries or wears pantsuits. You think any of that shit matters to thousands of dead Iraqis? My vote has to represent those who've been affected by this country's policies over the last 7 years who are not citizens of this country. And as a world citizen, I have to say Hillary is the worst damn Democrat anyone could vote for.
Ron McD @ 3:
Echoing post #52 ... this is really sad. If you can't keep Willie Horton and Michael Dukakis separate in your mind, you're not going to make it as a internet pundit.
Or maybe you will, which is even more sad.
As to what Clinton needs to do: cry more. (Or does that put me in the same category as Ron?)
Ron McD @ 3:
And they've left Hillary unscathed? I would refer you to archive episodes of the Rush Limbaugh show for the last 16 years.
screech @ 25:
Thank you for answering the question first, then going on to the bigger issue. I wish more people would do that; skipping over the first part of the answer only makes the second part sound like an evasion.
My advise is go with the flow, and realize that no matter what happens no one in our one second attention span society is really going to give a sh*t one way or the other as long as there is an availability of cheap food and entertainment.
Uncle_Jack @ 61:
Thanks indeed. Running late for work now, but will read more carefully later.
It will be interesting to see if Senator Clinton's attempt at channeling John Edwards works for her in Ohio. The unions and working people that she is now talking to might want to ask if Bill Clinton is going to return the $150,000 that outsourcing company Ness Technologies, Inc paid him for a speech (1/21/2002).
http://www.ness.com/GlobalNess
mudshark @ 7:
Since when, is what you have done in the senate mean jack shit? Congress has poll ratings lower then bush. If you want to know what he has done in the senate, go to his web site.
She can make women like me proud by exhibiting grace, magnanimity, and resolve. She can acknowledge Senator Obama's success and congratulate the electorate for turning out to exhibit political will. She can send him flowers, a fruit basket, and/or a nicely bound volume of verse, and then ask politely to be his Vice President.
When I say women like me, I mean middle-aged feminist mommies who think she can be helpful, only not as helpful in overcoming division as Senator Obama has proven to be.
On Tuesday morning the Clinton campaign accused obama of lifting parts of a speech from Gov. Patrick. Also early AM on Tuesday obama admitted he did that, but said he did not think it was a big deal. For the rest of the next 3 newsdays the headlines have been that Clinton accused him of lifting the speech, instead of Obama admits it.
Great press we have. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
The simple answer is there is nothing she can do. She's lost the race and all the money or connections won't help. She is the best the candidate for the job - her resume is great - but like in the normal world - a resume means squat in some cases.
Everything HRC has pointed out about Obama is true but Obama is using the Kennedy/Reagan campaign book - style over substance. In the nomination race you don't need to talk about any concrete plans or ideas.
"I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington... I'm asking you to believe in yours."
What does that mean, really? What do you do when you don't have the best resume? You distract people with your great personality and speeches.
In the end that is what most people use to decide on whom to pick. HRC just doesn't have the personality - at least in public - that Obama has and people are drifting to the "cool" kid.
Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc. will always have something "new" 24 times per day. Meaningless trivia and gossip masquerading as information.
Why be serious about anything?
Ms. Clinton cannot quite escape the perception (true or not) that Mr. Obama will deliver more real change than she can or would do if elected.
Therein lies the her real challenge: to show she represents a genuine "new broom". This is hard to do when much of her pitch to voters has been based on her being a savvier and more experienced that Mr. Obama.
First, let me say I don't like Clinton much and would have a very hard time voting for her. Still, I can't understand how my fellow liberals and progressives have fallen so fully into this love affair with Obama, who voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act, signed off on the Cheney/energy industry-produced energy plan and has repeatedly voted to continue funding the war in Iraq. I just don't get it. Do people really think this guy is that good or is it more that, after 7+ years of horrendous Bush "leadership," we're just willing to settle for anything else and Obama looks, feels and sounds completely different?
mudshark @ 7:
Good question. I don't know but I'm sure he's done much less politically than nixon or GWB experience wise. Why do you ask?
As far as the press goes, Bill Clinton has been courting Rupurt Murdoch for decades. He even employs Murdoch's daughter in law on his billion dollar foundation (such a tough job), inviting him to gala events for the foundation, and even recording a message of praise for Fox News founder (and former RNC chair) Roger Ailes.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0407/3482.html
L.A. Confidential @ 82:
People want to hear Yes We Can and stuff.
They don't want to be reminded about what seriously sad shape Bush has left this country in. And the nose to the grindstone effort thats going to be required for everyone to carry their own weight to fix it.
kablooie @ 79:
If you want Clinton to be helpful, it would be best if she became Senate Majority Leader. Its a job I think she would absolutely excel at.
yeah, I think she is overdue to cry. I couldn't help but notice how much a scapegoat Bill Clinton is turning out to be!
The real question, is "what have been the Senate's accomplishments in the last decade?"
Oh yes, Hillary voted for the original Patriot act -- along with Saint John Edwards.
It is kind of funny, here is an article defending Hillary against false charges that she opposed the Patriot act:
mudshark @ 7:
do you know how to google???
pretty easy,type in www.google.com
type in obama senate legislation
real easy to do
For the past 10 days, I have seen "nothing" in the newsprint or on MSM of a positive
nature w/respect to Hillary; ONLY laudatory articles/comments concerning Obama.
What we have here is a "popularity contest" as to which has the most charisma,
is the most articulate and unfortunately, litte or no coverages as to the issues.
No, I am not a Hillary supporter, but it's no wonder she is "down" since all of the
media is making Obama out to be the "second coming".
I'm curious. What major legislation did JFK pass before he became the presidential nominee?
Carter was a governor, as was Clinton and Reagan. They had no major legislation passed under their names either.
I'm not a Hillary fan, but I think the question of senatorial accomplishments is not going to be relevant.
As to what Hillary should do, I've not the slightest. I would LIKE to see her offer her resources to Obama so they may ensure that McCain does not get elected.
Personally I don't think either will change the general decline of the imperium. I often feel that McCain SHOULD be elected so that we may accelerate the decay and get it over with. Then we may begin to rebuild a better society from the ashes of capitalism.
try google @ 91:
Anyone can sit down and write legislation.
Whats so unusual about that? 99% of it gets passed and is forgotten and is never implemented with the vigor required to actually benefit everyone.
The Ronguard says:
"She should quit now and submit to the will of the people."
HAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bizona @ 84:
We had our chance with Kucinich, Dodd and Edwards. But the sheep are going to vote for whoever the media tells them to vote for. And after their candidate of choice, Obama, wins the nomination they will slander and propagandize him enough for McCain to squeak out a victory. So sheep, get ready to welcome President McCain.
There is nothing she can do. She has the competence, qualifications and knowledge of the issues, but the media, many left wing blogs and most of the American people are not listening. They get sucked into the marketing of a candidate just as they did with Bush and it works. Americans prefer style over substance, great campaign slogans over governing. She will go down in history the same way as Gore. She is the smarter candidate, but many Americans do not want smart, they want cool.
Ron McD @ 3:
And they will do the same thing to Hilliary! With a real heat on, and malalce aforthought, and with belles on their toes.
Sounds like your using the Rove playbook.
grand Marnier @ 97:
They want a free ride.
Snip of the day.
Americans’ ever-enduring, catatonic sleepwalk through the Empire’s vast array of bread and circus, as always produced by the Ministry of Truth and the Department of Propaganda, better known as the corporatist media, has succeeded in the creation of an ignorant, incurious and dumbed down populace completely bereft of knowledge of what is done in its name.
I think a better approach would have been for Clinton to attack Bush and the republicans and not Obama. Be seen as the leader against the republicans. But what do I know.
Abbybwood @ 95:
Thats the question I have. If she doesn't win big in Ohio and Texas, what will she do? Will she drag the democratic party down with her or will she do the right thing and bow out? Dems have a chance to gain the whitehouse and real control of the congress this time around. Will she throw all that away to stroke her own ego? I worry about that.
ggg
Why is it sexist to point out that she might cry? She did cry. Twice as a matter of fact. I believe it was not sincere crying. It was a manipulative strategy that backfired, and made all of us women look weak in the process, but she did cry.
So, I see nothing sexist in that.
OliverDreams @ 96:
Resign from the race with dignity, acknowledge she was beat by a better candidate and return in 8 years.
Also, there seems to be a double standard. The Clintons are scrutinized and put under the microscope in every which way. The Obamas are getting a free pass or their flaws get down played by the media. The MSM and Americablog, Huffpo, TPM and DKos have been quite disgusting in all of this. They have truly destroyed their crediblity. Their grudges against the Clintons were more important than accurately reporting to the public. They have become what they criticise and hate!
And the same slandering and marginalizing wouldn't happen with Hillary? If that's the only reason to vote for her, then that's more pathetic than her half-assed run campaign.
In hindsight, her biggest blunder was allowing Terry Macauliffe (sic) to have anything to do with her campaign. The guy has loser written all over him.
Reciproity - I think you meant to say he, not she. That way Clinton wins now and stays for 8 years. Saint Obama comes in 8 years from now, still a young man and wins and the Dems hold the whitehouse for 16 years. Clinton will be to old in 8 years. Do the math.
grand Marnier @ 97:
Do any of you people do any research? Take some time and look for yourself about what Obama or Clinton has done for that matter. Quit getting all your info from the MSM, who don't no shit. To them its only about the horse race, and they haven't been right about anything yet.
Falwell Confirms Lewinsky Affair Linked to Israeli Lobby Intrigue
By Michael Collins Piper
January 06, 2006
http://www.mikepiperreport.com/Articles_Archive/AmericanFreePress/AFP200...
On June 4th of this year, Mr. Speaker, the
Coalition is sponsoring "An Evening of
Conscience" Dinner in Jerusalem. I would like
to take this opportunity to wish the Coalition
great success at this upcoming event and
recognize the leadership and staff of the
Coalition for the remarkable work that has
been done by Coalition Chairman Daniel
Eisen, and the Coalition staff members:
Brigitte Silverberg, Reya Eisen, Daniel
Ehrlich, Daniel Grisarou, Gittel Davis,
Gedalya Gower, and the Coalition's
Washington representatives Alyza D. Lewin
and Vicki Iseman.
http://www.mia.org.il/trib.html
Doug @ 81:
Among other things, it means digesting (or, in your case, admitting) what it implies that Donna Edwards beat an incumbent in a primary in a very safe district. That the problems caused by too many DINOs can be fixed right now, at the same time that the problems with the Executive Branch can be fixed right now.
I have no idea how to apportion credit for Donna Edwards to people like Obama and Clinton, but I'm pretty sure that Obama would and should get more credit and that the coattail effect for real progressives will be much stronger with Obama.
That's what it means ... to me, at least. Your mileage, partly due to your attitude, may differ.
grand Marnier @ 105:
Thats right there was no shortage of warnings but no one listened. Now they are no better then the nut cases who baited them into this game. Just more sophisticated and flashy in their practice of idiocy.
mudshark @ 7:
During the first eight years of Senator Obama’s elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
- the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
- The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
- The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
- The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
- The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee)
grand Marnier @ 105:
Yeah, that media of ours, they sure hate republicans and republican-lite and would love to endorse Obama if only given the chance./snark. Get real.
She should fold camp and support Obama now.
On another note...
I am a software engineer/designer, therefore my wife, whom I have bounced design ideas off of over the years is obviously qualified to call herself a design engineer as well. Due to her extensive experience.
Get the hell out of here.
OliverDreams @ 96:
I never ceases to amaze me how so many Dems(on my side of the aisle), can make
what seems to me stupid statement about McCain winning in Nov. Should our Party
nominate either Hilllary or Obama, I see a slaughter of McCain at the polls come Nov.
Has anyone been watching closely the results of the last 22 Primaries and Caucases?
The Dems are turning out at the polls in numbers never seen before..doubling and
in many cases tripling the number of Repugs voting. The ONLY way I can see McCain
winning is twofold: Voter fraud again by the Repugs or if, lets say Hillary wins the
nomination, those Obama supporters are so inmature that they stay home on election
day in to spite her victory and in that case, it could be a close race. Regardless,
I am assuming that most intelligent Dems do not want McCain or any Repug in the W/H
and I am of the opinion that we Dems will turn out in record numbers in Nov. so as to
assure we don't have 4 more years of lies/corruption/deciet and downright dishonesty.
I have mixed feelings about Hillary as a woman. Sometimes I am angry with her, sometimes I am embarrassed for her and sometimes I feel sorry for her. I would like to feel proud of her. She needs to have the courage to say, it is time to step down, and congradulate Obama for running a very good campaign. I think the people will forgive her if she steps aside. If she chooses to look for mud and the floor and throw it at Obama, and drag out this fight she will lose her respect inside the Democratic Party.
sezoomj @ 26:
Thanks for this link.
Here's one about Hillary's senate tenure:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-hanft/the-curious-myth-of-hilla_b_876...
The Spaniard @ 114:
I can see your a really tolerant type.
Ed @ 51:
Read this about her ground campaign in TX:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/clintons-texas-ground-ga_b_...
An Open Letter To Hillary
Lisa @ 116:
Obama groupies will be bitching and griping about Obama if he becomes Prez after about the first six months.
Here's what Hillary should do if she wants to win the rest of the primaries/caucuses:
She should go on national television (not Fox), have her M.D. give her a good dose of sodium pentothal and then she should sing like a bird about all the nasty, secret, rotten shit she knows....everything related to crimes against the Constitution and against the American People and the people of the world. I volunteer to ask the questions (feel free to submit yours here to John Amato at C&L).
After she snaps out of it she can swear to tell the truth from now on, sign the pledge to restore the Constitution (which she has refused to do) and then maybe everyone would vote for her.
On second thought that may not work out so well. We might have to have the whole lot of them (elected and "selected" politicians) arrested!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qn85BeeiwZo&feature=related
Her most startling attack on Obama was that 'we live in a dangerous world and only one of us has the experience to be the commander-in-chief.'
Her decision to borrow from the most despicable feature of the Republican playbook (turning the Presidency into a war pulpit) suggests a desire to win for winning's sake - and at any cost.
Obama pros and cons aside, comments like these make Clinton unfit to win.
Abbybwood @ 123:
You have anything other then boobtube?
L.A. Confidential @ 118:
What does tolerance have anything to do with all this?
L.A. Confidential @ 122:
I really gotta get myself one of those crystal balls you guy's have. Also, if Obama supporters are groupies, what are Clinton supporters?
L.A. Confidential @ 125:
You know. Your attacks are akin to me pointing out that you used bad grammar a few posts up and typed, "your" instead of "you're". That's how substantive your responses are.
Avenger @ 124:
Yes lets not encourage candidates be a straight shooter who points out real flaws we need someone who's good manipulating us and talking a good game.
Someone who makes us "feel good" so we can have "Pride".
grand Marnier
Explain to me why you think Hillary is the 'smarter' candidate? It's not like Obama graduated from a trade school. As far as I know, Harvard law has pretty stringent entrance requirements.
As for experience, they have practically the same experience. She's only been in the Senate 2 years longer than him. I don't buy into that '35 years of experience' garbage. Being married to the governor didn't make you governor, and being married to the president didn't make you president. Maybe if she was running for first lady she could claim a lot more experience than him.
So, explain to me what you mean by style over substance. I don't see why we can't have both, and I see that in Obama.
Losing, losing would be a good idea for the Clinton camp. They should just donate a few hundred thousand dollars back to New York to repay her otherwise wasted salary. I mean, when Mike Bloomberg's saying voter fraud went down in 80 districts in your Home Town, and it's in the direction of the other person, well, it's time to throw in the towel. It's over. It couldn't be more over unless Hillary Clinton was the lobbyist John McCain was sleeping with...
LA Confidential is having a meltdown. I think he IS Hillary.
L.A. Confidential wonders:
"You have anything other then boobtube?"
Yes.
The progressive message is strong and timely. I do hope this drops the DLC down a notch as well.
The fact that Harold Ford, Jr. is their Chairman already drops the DLC down as low as it can go without burying itself six feet under.
Jeff @ 132:
See, your a perfect example of someone who doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about.
grand Marnier @ 97:
LOL!
The funny thing, is that picking up a "cause celebre" and going around giving power point (errr... keynote) presentations makes some idiot like you forget that Gore ran an incompetent campaign to the point of losing to a retarded buffoon, he was a founding member of the DLC, and his wife tried her best to squash freedom of expression in the 80s... which started the downhill slope of the jackboot conservative paranoia that has transformed this country into the fascist cesspool that it is today.
But sure, keep on talking about "experience" even though that "experience" is Hillary's vote for giving Bush a carte blanche for his bulllshit war of "error," voting for the Kyl Lieberman fascist crap on Iran, and missing deliberatedly the FISA vote. So please, spare me the bullshit... "experience" is a neutral quality, i.e. being "experienced" does not imply being good or bad. Heck, some of the hookers in my town may be fairly "experienced" alas I doubt they meet the requirements to be a good political leader.
So if all you are going to do is try to shovel down our throats Hillary's talking points while accusing other people of preferring "appearance over substance," all I have to say is Mrs. kettle there is a pot and both of you are black.
diamondmc @ 127:
Harpies? *bigtime snark* ;P
She should determine a point of no return. If that point comes, she should suspend her candidacy like Romney did. One never knows what the future holds. Once Obama is nominated she and her husband should move heaven and earth to get him elected. She should show that she is a team player and not a "my way or the highway" kind of person. We've had that for the past eight years; I'm sick of that attitude; and the country suffers. Then she should spend the next four years doing everything she can to help the Democratic Obama agenda become law.
L.A. Confidential @ 135:
lol OK. Here's $80. Buy yourself a sense of humor and you might have some change left for a clue. Tip: They sell'em in bulk at Costco.
I agree with others, the only thing Hillary should do is drop out and let Obama get to beatin' on McCain. I say this knowing full well that Obama will not be what I consider a good President, that not capping credit card interest rates at 30% and talking about Social Security privatization scare the crap out of me.... But, I honestly don't know how anyone can watch Hillary's speeches these days and not see that she looks as pathetic as GW Bush does when he tries to chastise people for not doing exactly what he wants. She's looking anything but presidential.
Repugs know they are in deep shit this time around. They have a pres with a 19% approval rating, they put up a shitty canidate with McCain and their party is split. All they have to do is start going over the progressive blogs, and that will give them hope that they may be able to pull this one out. It feels like once again progressives and dems will destory themselves long before the Nov elections.
MN USA @ 138:
Obama is going to need the Clintons more then they need him if he manages to get Elected Prez.
Obama has zero experience dealing with this worlds Big Time Geo Political problems. How much time you think he's going to have to pamper his crowd with their need to "feel good" with this country being broke, and with total downstream liabilities and unfunded commitments (including Medicare, Social Security, Public Debt, Pensions, etc.) have now exceeded $53 trillion dollars.
Get real
Well, she could try inspiring the same imagination and hope that Obama does. This won't be an easy task, given that she'll have to crawl from the gutter and draw herself upright first. Maybe she should try talking to us about her ideas for undoing all the damage that she has aided and abetted over the past seven years. She should be explaining to us why it is, exactly, that her "experience" as First Lady and exactly four more years in the U.S. Senate than Obama is somehow superior to his own stint in Congress, coupled with his eight years in the Illinois State Senate and rich background in community activism and as a civil rights lawyer.
If she can't muster the courage to talk about her own ideas, instead of waging a pathetic, scorched-earth campaign that will only serve to divide the party and risk losing the General Election, then she should get the fuck out of the race NOW. We will ALL be better for it.
It's really too bad that Clinton's extremely negative strategy is actually to try to make people hate Obama.
I can see disagreeing with him. I mean, he's not my #1 candidate. But he is really a good candidate. And he is winning.
Just because some people hate the Clintons because of years and years of emotion-based smears by the GOP against them... It does not mean that she should try to win against Obama the same way.
If it's not her time, she should just go back to New York and do her job with the skill and competence that we expect from her. She should not try to turn people off to Obama and make people hate him.
He has the potential to do for Democrats what Reagan did for the Republicans.... grow the party, initiate a movement, and give us a real shot to undo the last quarter century of failed policies.
Jeff @ 139:
Right kid. I'm truly shook up by your disapproval. When you evolve beyond Junior High School let me know.
So here's what the R charge is going to be: Obama's a Communist!
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/
L.A. @142
"Obama has zero experience dealing with this worlds Big Time Geo Political problems"
And she does?
L.A. Confidential @ 145:
See, you're a perfect example of someone who doesn’t have a clue as to what he’s talking about.
Fanon @ 147:
You figure it out. Am I your daddy?
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