IRS investigates Obama's Church
I didn't know Sean Hannity worked for the IRS too.
The IRS is investigating the United Church of Christ over a speech Sen. Barack Obama gave at its national meeting last year after he became a candidate for president, the denomination said Tuesday.
In a letter the denomination received Monday, the IRS said "reasonable belief exists" that the circumstances surrounding the speech violated restrictions on political activity for tax-exempt organizations. The denomination has denied any wrongdoing.
Obama, a member of Trinity United Church of Christ, spoke about faith and public life at the denomination's June 2007 General Synod in Hartford, Conn.
The UCC had invited Obama to speak a year before he announced he was running for president because of his involvement in the denomination, Guess said.
Church leaders consulted with lawyers before the event on following IRS rules. Before Obama spoke, a top church official told the crowd that the senator's talk was not a campaign-related event and that no leaflets or other signs of political support would be allowed...read on
Soon, they will go after Pat Robertson, right? What about that dude Huckabee stands up for? No? Dobson? Hmmmm, the hypocrites are becoming more and more disgusting
And yet shmuckabee can have his idiot evangelist buddies hand him wads of cash and all but threaten their congregation to vote for him or else and that's not a problem.
No double standard there.
johnnyboy @ 1:
I was about to post the same thing. Both of these reich-wing hacks shill for the GOPigs 24/7 but continue to bask in their tax exemption status.
Speaking of public life is not the same as speaking public policy.
What ever happenened to prosecutorial discretion?
And I'm a Hillary supporter.
Are you fuckin kidding me???
After all of the bullshit that Boosh pulled in 2000 and 2004 this is nothing.
Well, two can play at that game,Why hasn't any of the churches been investigated? We all know that the repub's did this across the country .So why hasn't the IRS sanctioned any of these other churches?
Assholes.
This is such BS...Barack Obama also mentions this church in both of his books and on his website. Barack's website probably is networked through one of the suspected telecom's....maybe we could investigate the wiretapping and network internet spying I'm sure is going on and pin AT&T, Verizon and so on for illegal spying.......opps I'm sorry, we don't need court orders to do that anymore.....
The timing has to be suspect as well. The repugs will throw anything on the wall to see what sticks, even if there is nothing. I just hope Hillary wasn't part of this.
I hope the church comes out clean. Seems from the article they did everything by the book. Consulted their lawyers and covered all their bases it sounds like. At least they were being responsible.
And yeah, why is it okay for huck to preach at churches while he's still in the race? Is the IRS gonna look into them as well?
Has the IRS ever removed a church's tax exemption status for something like this?
Man, think how many churches will be be under investigation now because Mike Huskster spoke to them?
Total bullcrap. Does Cheney have a direct and untapped line to the IRS?
And another thing.....(can you tell this has me a bit pissed off)
Dear Republicans and those involved with the GWB conspiracy/crime team-
When Barack is President, I cannot wait for him to run a few LEGIT investigations of his own!!!! Paybacks will cost you folks a few years behind bars..
Someone needs to ask Senator Grassley why he hasn't brought up the following "televangelists" for ignoring his subpeona to pony up their financial records financing those "lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" while fleecing their flocks who can ill-afford to pay:
Benny Hinn
Kenneth Copeland
Creflo Dollar
Eddie Long
Paul and Jan Crouch (owns TBN)
Rod Parsley
http:www.ministrywatch.com
If Obama's church has to submit to an investigation (and this isn't the first time), what's good for his church is good for Hannity's Catholic Church. Where they get all that cheddar to pay off those families while they were transferring pedophile priests from one parrish to another, providing them fresh victims everytime they moved?
http://www.ministrywatch.org
This can be a good thing to use against the Kkkhristians who try to fling Muslim smears against him.
The repigs are SO afraid of Obama it's laughable.
Why do politicians insist on associating themselves with all these goddam churches? F-You to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham. Reverend Sharpton, Reverend Jackson, and Trinity United Church of Christ. They are all a bunch or evangelical hucksters. Obama will do himself a big favor to disassociate himself from organized religion.
Audit 'em all, let Satan sort it out.
Why does any religion deserve tax-exempt status these days? Are they really that fragile, or are we expected to subsidize the superstitions of others?
RueMorgue @ 13:
You are right RueMorgue, this can be used as proof that Obama is not a Muslim. The saying "there ain't no such thing as bad publicity" omits the qualifying prefix, "Used properly,"...
it looks like the Rev saw this coming..........................unbelievable.The level of hypocricy is ......
...................(shaking my head).......
It never ends with these clowns.
If the IRS has a legitimate basis for investigation, why wasn't this church investigated?
or this one?
and this one was upfront campaigning in a church by Bill for Hillary
There's plenty more in the search where that came from.
Yeah, and what about that Huckabee?
MR. Bill @ 17:
Agreed. You manage a blog; I'd recommend to you or any blogger who decides to bring this up or even anyone who reads this and debates in general to make two points:
1. Obama is clearly not a Muslim.
2. Huckabee did precisely the same thing.
Over. And over. And over again. The problem I think is that liberals, by and large, don't know how to spin these things. What's good for the goose is good for the gander; if Rove can do it, then so can we.
let's wait and see if the IRS goes after the fuckin' Catholic church ....in NY at St. Pat's they endorse ideals/Republicans from the pulpit and bash gays openly.
yet they enjoy tax exempt status I believe....how funny in a country with "separation of church in state"
I doubt anyone thought the politicization of the various government agencies was on hold, but in case you did, here we are again with the IRS functioning as a political hit squad for the RNC.
This is just another drive by shooting by the bush gang. They will use anything to derail the dems from gaining control of this goverment. This is a tried and true tactic by repugs. They used the IRS to go after anti war protesters during the Viet Nam War.
this is the same as the justice department federal prosecutor scam. the IRS just lost a case against a california church they prosecuted after the pastor spoke out against the war.
this is why people want to get rid of the current regime.
Not only are conservative churches being politically active (and getting away with it), they are doing it with your money. Financing churches through the "Faith-based" initiatives is unconstitutional, too.
http://au-oc.org/tempting_faith.htm
Will the MSM ask McCrazy if he endorse's this tactic by the bush administration? Oh silly me, The MSM won't even pick this up. Never mind.
As a member of the UCC church this is outragious but not suprising. The UCC church has been openly critical of the war, has had gay clergy for decades and supports and performs gay marriage. A church that preaches peace and acceptance is not the right wings version of Christianity.
Time and time again, it is getting very clear that this administration has transformed the Justice department and the IRS into their own political tool.
The churches that became a part of the UCC were around before our country and constitution. (the fricken pilgrims) The constitution is now dead as are the freedoms we held dear.
RueMorgue @ 13:
I dunno, we are talking about the same crowd that believes Hillary is a lesbian but killed her male lover Vince Foster.
CNN is saying that the MSM is pro Obama. They are scared aren't they.
RueMorgue @ 20:
Huh...Ok...Next time anyone calls Hillary's tactics "Rovian"...remember that.
The Reich is definitely afraid of Obama winning. They should be very afraid!
The Soviet Union used to go after churches for supporting opposition canidates.
Siegleman Justice from the Bush/Cheney/McCain Justice Dept.
Who knew?
-GSD
Why are we talking about this crap? Why can't we talk about REAL ISSUES like prison reform, education, and the reduction of poverty! I'm happy that we're finally talking about Health Care, but Health Care, Iraq, and Immigration are not the only issues that warrant discussion!
Instead we are subjected to pictures of Obama in muslim clothing, flyers about Hillary Clintons health care plan, rash accusations of plagiarism, and all kinds of shady political gamesmanship.
And of course the IRS is also investigating James Dobson and Pat Robertson's churches, right? Right? *crickets*
Ashcroft to Testify in Congress on No-Bid Contract for His Firm By PHILIP SHENON
The contract, worth $28 million to $52 million, was directed to John Ashcroft's firm by the United States attorney in New Jersey, Christopher J. Christie, without any bidding process.
the buscheney corruption knows no bounds
Let The Games Begin.
RantingRaver @ 34:
This is a important issue. Using the IRS as a political tool against supporters of Obama for the gain of repugs is serious. If they can get away with this, when will they come after you or me?
Gotta love the repugs -- investigate his church while you paint him as a Muslim.
The next headline I want to see:
Get your free Pocket BARACK-itizer here.
I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE AS AMERICAN PEOPLE TAKE OFF THE GLOVES AND START QUESTIONING WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, I REMEMBER MR. NIXION USING THE IRS TO GO AFTER PEOPLE HE DIDN'T LIKE OR HE THOUGHT WOULD HURT HIS PRESIDENCY. IT IS NOW UP TO US THE PEOPLE TO BRING BACK FAIRNESS TO THE PROCESS.
diamondmc @ 38:
As soon as they read what you just wrote.
CoIntelPro @ 36:
Holy shit. I can't believe this goes on in the U.S. and there hasn't actually been a violent uprising by the people. This is absolutely insane, the administration isn't even trying to hide the fact that it and its friends are looting the country. Don't know that this shit would fly in Canada. Thing is, in Canada we have the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) that reports these types of crimes and our government for the most part does seem to fear the reaction of the people. I guess the fact that our government is a minority government also plays into it.
Mark @ News Corpse @ 40:
Please, don't hold your breath, we don't want to loose ya.
johnnyboy @ 1:
You took the words right outta my mouth. That is exactly the thought I had as I was reading the article.
RantingRaver @ 34:
When politicians talk about the issues; it implies that politicians have an obligation to actually address the issues.
How about Congress starting impeachment proceedings against the traitors in the White House? Now that would be a honest investigation not this bogus IRS investigation into a speech at a church. Did the IRS investigate all those Fundamentalist churches that handed out Bush/Cheney leaflets along with their Sunday programs?
I have a hard time defending any churches tax exempt status. There are 100s of churches that cry foul when they can say and do anything they want as long as they are willing to give up their tax exempt status. All you have to ask is what is more important to these church's, getting their particular message out and how much they find it overwhelmingly urgent to save the souls of the US, or money. But in this case I have to call hypocritical BS.
I have heard pastors stand in the pulpit and tell their sheep that one can't be a Christian and a Democrat. (I was a guest in that church - not a member)
When I mentioned the obvious violation to a deacon he laughed and added a stack of Dole bumper stickers to the Republican literature on the table in the entry. And that was under Bubba.
I guess it makes a difference on whether or not you're a liberal.
Dr. Matt @ 3:
And I as well was thinking the same thing... aaah, those ba$tards in the white house... what a bunch of fucktards!!
Cats r Flyfishn @ 47:
And while the IRS is at it, perhaps they can check out these lying traitors in the white house as well... that's where their focus should be, not on a church that's doing nothing illegal.
I bet Keith Olbermann is going to have fun with this one.
I can't wait until he does his special comment on this.
Yeah, if this isn't designed to promote suspicion about Obama, then I'm the Queen of England. First the Justice Dept, now Treasury. Next they'll be accusing him of passing secrets to Al Qaida.
Since when isn't a parishoner allowed to speak or witness in their own church? Jeesh..I wish somebody would go after the Catholic Church (my own denomination, so that's not a slam) and those ridiculous voters guides they leave on the pews with a check next to the candidate the diocese supports. I get those before every election!
OT but:
THE SHOCKING PHOTOS TAKE OF THE UK EARTHQUAKE DAMAGE!
abob @ 15:
Billy Graham is an honorable man.
While working a phone bank as a volunteer at the L.A. Democratic Party a call came in as I was about to leave. It was a young black woman who wanted to know if she would go to hell if she voted for Kerry. She was told by her evangelical preacher that since Kerry, as a Catholic, wasn't a Christian. I have heard similar stories from others. I believe that I had read that the IRS had a new rule that there were "bye's" given when preachers gave pro-Repug instructions to their flock, as they were overwhelmed in their zeal and needed to have a bit of slack.
I wonder how many of these "religious" people were bought through the "Faith-Based Initiative"? Oh, didn't I see that there is no accounting for moneys given to churches by this government? That would be too intrusive, even if they found out through their illegal wiretaps.
Ron @ 29:
Yes they are scared and they should be... it's time the party of fat old white boys (masquerading as men) was squashed under the peoples' thumbs. I for one can't wait!!
Upset Sends Democrat to Albany By TRYMAINE LEE
A Democratic assemblyman won a stunning upset in a State Senate election in a district that has been in Republican hands for a century.
...........
THAT is what they see coming and they don't know how to fight it. They are trying to intimidate churches and peoples. It won't work. Just like Donna Edwards, the people are having their say.
Kevin Hayden @ 53:
yeah! suspicion of being CHRISTIAN, not muslim. Oh my!
They should change their name to IRA, Internal Revenue Army.
Sinn Fein is no longer using it, are they?
So the fascists-run government has kicked it up a notch and ordered their own stasi-machinery to work.
What else didn't we see coming already? It is highly unlikely this comes as a surprise for a forward-looking and clever guy as Obama. He knows he will have to fight (or just plain ignore) these things en masse before he gets to swear the oath.
So, we're cool...
CoIntelPro @ 60:
And boosh of passing gas
he loves that pull my finger joke.
diamondmc @ 38:
I'd love to know more about that mysterious 'letter' and its author...
CoIntelPro @ 59:
right on! @ 58:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbZX27CjlRk
Paul C @ 57:
some black churches were also bought with FBI-money. Just not that many. usually the reason was support for pro-life and anti-gay legislation.
Earl @ 56:
That is sarcasm right? If not go back and listen to the Nixon tapes when he is talking to the very "honorable" Billy Graham.
ysbaddaden @ 67:
Thanks! That's a great song...
RayC @ 69:
Nevertheless, Billy Graham is an honorable man.
As far as the wingnuts are concerned, this is all the IRS is good for -- harassing political opponents. The more time they spend doing that, the less time they spend chasing big-time tax cheats.
But Huckabee can give sermons at Fundy churches, and the IRS doesn't give a damn?
Figures. There's nothing more fundamental than hypocrisy.
Anonymoo @ 16:
Absolutely!
Earl @ 71:
Personally honorable, maybe. But he admitted he'd been duped and lied to by Nixon, who used Graham as a convenient prop to gain support among religious people. As every president since Truman has done.
In the end, how "honorable" is it to be the quasi-official, media-approved minister to the US presidency, in a country that is supposed to maintain separation between church and state?
While they're at it, maybe they can look into Bush's speech to the Knights of Columbus convention in election season 2004.
Wow, they didn't waste any time. They sure are scared, aren't they. Good. They should be.
The Bush admin has gone to far, now political opponents are being shaken down in this country.
I pray for Obama's life and for to receive great wisdom in dealing with the crookedness of Washington.
74 fastfeat
Essentially that's where charity came from, that and community chests.
Now there all about mega-churches and mega-payrolls for their whore-preachers.
Earl @ 71:
This is beginning to sound a lot like Marc Anthony's speech about Brutus.
Earl @ 71:
heh, missed it by that much. good thinking ys.
Nixon set the IRS on people, too.
These vile outlaws don't even bother to try to hide their crimes anymore. Makes me paranoid - what are they planning to stop the election? "Terrorist" attack, Blackwater martial law, assasination? I don't put anything beyond their evil, greedy minds.
When Julius Ceasar said, "Et tu Brute?"
Did that mean he was into gay ménage à trois?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWwyjmSbJPs
Annoyed Canuck @ 75:
While Billy Graham has brought many to the alter it has been under his "Leadership" that so called prosperity preaching gained acceptance.
I don't recall his ever speaking out on it.
Another thing I hold against Billy, when his show came to town here in San Diego they advertised on billboards all over town. Just a picture of the Rev. Billy Graham in a nice blue suit and dates and places where he would be. No mention of God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit; only the holy presence of Mr. Graham.
Agent Provocateur @ 81:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9jaIO3lUts
johnnyboy @ 1:
CBN was audited by the IRS.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/dc/045304a.pdf
Does anyone here do research any prior to spouting off?
Annoyed Canuck @ 64:
Ooops @ 87:
I have oodles of visual aids when I do my one handed spouting off, and you?
This line from the article has an omission. The words "Democratic or progressive" need to be inserted before the word "nonprofit."
Kevin Hayden @ 53:
The wingers already call him an AQ sleeper cell!
And here I always though a sleeper cell was where ray gun took all his naps.
At least now he's taking a dirt nap.
This is why we need to end this primary campaign and get the party unified and focused on moving forward to the Presidency. We cannot allow Bush, the Republicans and the big-money Status Quo and Establishment to keep this party down.
They know they're toast in November if they don't stop us now, so we need to focus on moving forward.
Let's hope, and dare I say pray that Obama gets through all this and the other crap that he will have to put up with during the election and wins the office of President.
Then he and the Democrats that win the House and Senate can all straighten out these offices of the government that BushCo has politicized.
abob @ 15:
abob, you know absolutely nothing about the United Church of Christ. I suggest you go to their website. It is a very liberal denomination. It ordains women and LGBT folk and is quite active on social issues.
Why does the IRS find this issue so interesting when it ignores efforts like certain evangelical churches who allow petition drives to put anti-gay measures and anti-choice measures on the ballot?
The reich-wing spin machine has already caught wind of this and is going into full meltdown on the airwaves.
Are they investigating the evangelical right wing churches also? I know of several here in San Antonio who have both in 2004 and 2006 spent entire sermons and sunday meetings telling their flocks who to vote for.
timr @ 100:
When I was stationed in Memphis, I attended many reich-wing slanted fundie churches and the preachers made it quite clear who they supported and how their flock should vote.
I used to be a Catholic, and the IRS never objected to material with GWB's large photo in it being passed out after mass in the fall preceding the 2004 election. The IRS is what needs investigating. Politicized just like the DOJ.
william buckly jr dies !!!!!!!!!!!!! screw him and the republicans he rode in on!!!!!!!!!!
Is everyone commenting on these sites, like, twelve? Of course the IRS (since FDR) is a political arm of those in power. Of course the churches are corrupt. Do you really think it's just the fundi churches who are not on the straight and narrow. Black churches are notoriously politically active in questionable ways with preachers the bagmen of those who actively seek (and they shall find) approaches to bribe their way into office. Just because we support the same political causes, don't think they don't bend the laws to the breaking point too. Sorry for the silly pun but y'all are way too "nave" about "donations" and "investigations." And it is just starting. Senator Obama is about to get lynched (all racial and historical applications apply) by folks who are skilled as it. That mob of goobers and gomers have been trained well for generations in the arts of dirty tricks. There is no accomodation with them: no walking across the aisle; none of that touch-feelie things the Obamaites are all vaporing over. Reconciliation? Higher standards? Hells bells! It's a bushwhacking. Come armed. If you get shocked you are just cluttering up the line of fire.
Anonymoo @ 16:
Amen, brother! I'm going to start my own church preaching the gospel of Peter Parker. Uncle Ben will be a saint. Aunt May can be our madonna. We'll learn life's lessons from Spiderman. "With great power comes great responsibility" and so on.
The moral is strong, and what's the harm if I live in my own special fantasy land?
Or we could start a religion based on Mother Goose. If we're going to subsidize people's delusions then I want my slice of the pie?
Hillary will make the best candidate hands down.
We really don't have a choice if we want to have a President that can and will get solutions for Americans accomplished. Yes, I'm saying that Obama does not have what it takes with his short term in Washington to get things done. With the amount of help he will need there will be the classic melt down because no one will be able to cooperate to the extent that there will be a consensus under Obama. TO MANY HANDS IN HIS COOKIE JAR, and I'm not talking about those who voted for him.
tyree @ 103:
The Gates of Hell open and welcome another citizen.
Dr. Matt @ 107:
bukly is standing in line behind fallwell waiting for his turn on satans ballocks
The IRS does investigate the other side. For an executive branch agency, they are much less partisan than people think.
Bush/GOP's private attack machine also includes the IRS. Why would they single out Obama's church. I'm sure this type of activity is done regularly for GOP politician's in the south. They don't be touched. Looks like they were within the law but that never stops them. They make it up as they go along. Now they are trying to punish his church because they don't like him. That's what they do and that has to stop. I hope he wins.
Let me count the people they should be examining: James Dobson, Pat Robertson, all the little pastors who got out the Republican vote in the guise of family values
(when most of them knew better), the jackass in Dallas that is Huckabee's big buddy. Tell me that this administration doesn't use the IRS for political attack.
About this time you would be telling yourself, "But the IRS and the justice department wouldn't involve themselves in partisan attacks" and then you remember yesterday's story was Siegelman. Oh well, welcome to life in a third world corrupt dicktatorship.
Kind of hard to accept that the only congregations that ever get investigated are the ones that come out against Bush or against the wars-without-end-amen or against whatever the GOP cause of the day might be. Meanwhile, conservative churches across the land are telling their flocks how, who and what to vote for (straight GOPer party line, of course) and nothing ever happens. While.... the Bushco Criminal Enterprise takes our tax dollars and hands it out in the form of bribes to these same conservative religious enterprises under the name of Faith -Based Initiative.....in order to make sure that the clergy tell their flocks of sheeple how, who and what to vote for. Pretty fucking circular. Pretty fucking corrupt. Pretty fucking blatant violation of church and state. Where the fuck is the IRS then?
Hiya,Tyree
william buckly jr dies !!!!!!!!!!!!! screw him and the republicans he rode in on!!!!!!!!!!
I hope that rat Skull and Bones bastard is skewered on a rotisserie spit from asshole to appetite and is roasting nicely over his own personal charcoal pit in hell.
Who audits the IRS?
I wonder how many Reagents University grads have been hired by the IRS lately.
It seems that, once again, it is OK if you are a Republican. I have not heard of a SINGLE church being audited/investigated for campaigning for a Republican.
On a slightly different note, a friend of mine attends an evangelical christian church here in Oregon. On one occasion several local (state level) REPUBLICAN politicians were invited to speak to the congregation. I commented that it was pushing the limits of legality and she responded that she thought so too but missed the party affiliation part.
Earl @ 56:
And a good Democrat to boot!
abob @ 15:
The United Church of Christ is NOT evangelical in any way. My father was a UCC minister. It was formed as a uniting of Congregational and some Methodist churches.
Paul @ 113:
greetings paul !
Was this church ever investigated:
Another Karl Rove-fueled and Goebbels-inspired operation – not only do right-wing churches get a pass, but it just brings more that the Dems have to deal with and clutters news releases with negative Dem-related chatter.
Here's Huckabee in a right-wing church:
http://thumbsnap.com/v/vvODBawN.jpg
Might as well yank the tax exempt status from every church in America! What? Have they been asleep the past eight years? The politicizing of congregations has been overwhelmingly evident since just before Bush our Lord sat on the throne and for the past eight years! Now you want to investigate the blurred line of church and state? Hmmmm... Wonder why?
This is SOP for the Bushies. They did a long investigation of a California church for a sermon during the 2000 campaign because the preacher used concepts that were prominent in the Gore campaign but didn't urge the congregation to vote for anyone or mention any candidate. After about three years, they were found not guilty of any misconduct. The purpose is not to harm the churches, it it is to frighten churches that do not follow the GOP line out of talking about any social issues. Because even winning takes years and costs hundereds of thousands in lawyer fees. They know they can't win, they just want to keep churches from talking about social justice during the campaign because those sermons will not generally make the GOP look good.
The entire UCC is being investigated?
This is a insane attack on a mainstream Church that has the 1.2 million-member.
Their willingness to go after the UCC but not Pat Robertson tells me that this is a politically motivated hit job.
BTW I invite you faith haters to investigate the UCC and see for yourself just how nice these people are.
"IRS investigates Obama's church" what a fucking coincidence. We have to get this country back from these evil mother fuckers.
Personally, I think this tactic will backfire. Everyone knows that churches (especially the more conservative ones) heavily promote their pet political agendas. The bigger stink made, the more apparent it will be that this is a politically motivated IRS investigation and the more apparent that the 'GOP is at it again.'
Too many people see through the slime.
Good for the IRS. The candidate Obama needs to be held to the same standards as any other candidate. If he broke a regulation or law then he needs to be held accountable. Affirmative action got him his education and his success, but it's not going to give him a break with the federal authorities. I appreciate the integrity of the IRS in this matter.
I wonder if organizations like the AEI ever get audited. http://www.aei.org/about/
I read somewhere that the AEI has on occasion helped others (like Greenpeace) to get audited. http://www.democracynow.org/2006/3/24/irs_audited_greenpeace_at_request_of
Lyn @ 128:
You presume too much. Obama was raised by white grandparents. And it's his church being unnecessarily investigated.
Buckley's dead? Oh Happy Day! It's times like these I wish there really was a Hell waiting for these motherfuckers. But gone forever is good too.
Here in the northern part of Republican Idaho it is an accepted practice of the "Holiness" churches to openly advocate their preferences for a particular Republican of their choice. In some cases parishioners and preachers even accompany candidates on their door-to-door efforts.
ysbaddaden @ 130:
and if it turns out there was nothing illeagal and the accusations were false, will the Republicans stop using this as a talking point? don't bet on it.
Rusty Shackleford @ 109:
Rusty, this article you quote is good, but lets take it to the next level.
from the first 2 paragraphs :Outspoken California pastor and former Southern Baptist Convention officer Wiley Drake is being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service.
The candidate for the SBC presidency this year is under scrutiny for using his church letterhead and church-sponsored radio show last year to endorse Mike Huckabee. Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming -- alive and well after Drake called God’s wrath against them for criticizing his endorsement -- work at the religious-liberty agency that filed an IRS complaint that prompted the investigation.
After Americans United for Separation of Church and State announced their IRS filing in August, Drake asked his supporters to pray for ill to befall Conn and Leaming. The two are communications staffers for the agency.
Drake confirmed Feb. 14 that he had recently received an IRS letter noting he was under investigation for using church resources to endorse Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, Southern Baptist minister and Republican presidential candidate"
Now lets do some examination.
The complaint against Drake originated with the Americans United for Separation of Church and State. (AUSCS or AU)
The National Executive Director of AU is Reverend Barry W. Lynn.
Reverend Barry W. Lynn is an ordained UCC minister.
So here we have an organization commited to separation of church and state, which has members belonging to a church being investigated for unifying church and state??
anybody want to address the red flags here?
that dog don't hunt..
IRS is being politically influenced..just like the DOJ and Alabama
Bush took a page from Nixon. Use the IRS to harass your enemies.
I'm all for the IRS revoking the tax exempt status of Obama's church. Quite simply, if he spoke to the congregation, and he is a politician, then that is proof that his church has engaged in political activity. And then, let's revoke the tax exempt status of every church where any politician has ever spoke. That would include federal, state or local politicians. Maybe we could extend that to cover any church that has taken a position on any political issue, such as abortion, immigration, helping the homeless, etc.
johnnyboy @ 1:
attacking obama's church is outrageous. all these fucking hypocrite
religiousreichwing "white" churches are so political andNOT ONE OF THEM are being investigated. fuck the gop and
fuck bush/cheney for their discrimination.
WOW....Someone is finally taking a closer look at Sen. Obama....... He has gotten such a free pass on just about everything he does ..........He uses sexes comments when it comes to Sen. Clinton and no one says boo..... but if you question or say anything about him negatively it's some how a racist comment ........ Wake up Sheeple
The bush administration the the Repugnicans have no problem doing ChurchSpeak from the podium. Which brings to mind a Dbuya response to a question back in December '07:
When asked what went through his mind when he first heard about a Saudi rape case wherein the victim of a gang rape received 200 lashes as her punishment. Bush brushed aside his role as head of state, instead saying he would have been “very emotional” if it had happened to his daughter.
BUSH: My first thoughts were these.
What happens if this happened to my daughter? How would I react?
And I would have been — I would have been — I’d had — I would have been very emotional, of course.
I’d have been angry at those who committed the crime. And I would be angry at the state that didn’t support the victim.
And our opinions were expressed by Dana Perino from the PULPIT... errr... from the podium.
Watch it here: http://www.crooksandliars.com/index.php?s=saudi+rape+case
robyn williams @ 138:
Their NOT looking at Obama, their looking at his church,,you missed the mark on this one. Obama doesn't have a lot of dirty laundry like others so they have to either make it up like Fox News does or just try to punish those who support him as the GOP/Bush fueled IRS does here. They don't have much of a case but then again the DOJ didn't have much on Siegelman in Alabama either.
I’m all for the IRS revoking the tax exempt status of Obama’s church. Quite simply, if he spoke to the congregation, and he is a politician, then that is proof that his church has engaged in political activity. And then, let’s revoke the tax exempt status of every church where any politician has ever spoke. That would include federal, state or local politicians. Maybe we could extend that to cover any church that has taken a position on any political issue, such as abortion, immigration, helping the homeless, etc.
Okay, fine, but Pat Robertson needs to lose his tax-exempt status as well as Mullah Dobson, Rod Parsley and any other "televangelist" living in mansions, with private jets and wearing $10K custom made suits and clothes, driving $350K cars and buying expensive art and crafts that don't decorate their santuaries, but the parishioner making less than $40K a year is being told to give in the hope of financing blessings like these yahoos get.
Bet Pat don't want folk to know that the 700 Club was largely financed by the oil and diamond mines he helpd rape from Africa, does he?
"...the IRS said “reasonable belief exists” that the circumstances surrounding the speech violated restrictions on political activity for tax-exempt organizations." Did the investigate Gen Boyken's tax-exempt-church-hosted events too?
JetTx @ 142:
Sorry. Alomost forgot..."assholes."
ysbaddaden @ 130:
Not quite sure I understand what Obama being raised by his white grandparents has to do with the original commenter's remark, but I will agree that they are being extremely presumptuous.
You have a collection of corrupt and racist institutions in the United States and it seems to be assisted by the insurance people aswell.
Blacks/Hispanics/otherminorities and the Poor and "imperfect" are often killed off by their institutions DIRECTLY. Why do you tolerate it?
Minorities, even with healthcare are routinely "killed off" because you cannot fight the big corps without money. And they deny almost every procedure.
Minorities are routinely arrested and therefore 'disenfranchised' and unable to vote or work due to false criminal records.
The IRS is a tool of intimidation used as a weapon against those that speak out against the injusticed they witness.
Since most, if not all, of these crimes are caused for or by corporations, I can say with confidence that America is fascist. That is the definition.
dadams @ 137:
Well, unfroatunately, they will kill you off before you kill them off, because they are working together to do it. I recommend you RECOGNIZE what a fascist is and tell your friends.
Cause when war breaks out there are only about 2000 fascists in charge of this corruption. And I do hope we get all their names and addresses.
Looks like them investigators finally found something to do. And to think, it only took them 7+ years to do it!
duncanidho @ 134:
i honestly don't understand what you think the "red flags" are. Yes, Barry Lynn is an ordained UCC minister (although he spends his time running AU, I believe). And AU complained to the IRS about Wiley Drake, and they're investigating him. And somebody complained to the IRS about the UCC, and they're investigating the UCC. I don't see what the problem is.
I've been a member of AU for years. The IRS has always handled AU's complaints about church politicking professionally and without noticeable partisanship. I don't believe you can show otherwise, but I'd welcome seeing any evidence you have that the IRS operates in a partisan manner.
The reason Robertson, Dobson, et al., don't get into trouble is because they know exactly where the line is and how to stay juuuuuust on the right side of it. That's why they have separate, non-501(c)(3) entities that handle their more explicit political activities. They learned their lesson when Falwell got busted back in, I think, the 1990s. They got savvy.
This is ridiculous... considering the results that last time the IRS was pushed by the Bush admin to try this nonsense - you'd have thought no one in the agency would cave... you'd have thought wrong.
This is shameful, and shameless.
Clinton may deny any knowledge of or involvement in this latest occurance, but the fact that this occurs in the last days before the Texas & Ohio primaries can only point towards Clinton & ONLY Clinton as this is exactly a tactic that she would use as she is losing & will continue to lose as people are waking up to the evil & cunning person she really is. Just ask the Secret Service as she treated all of them with such blatent disrespect when she was First Lady. Before thinking about voting for her, I strongly suggest taht you read the book entitled UNLIMITED ACCESS which is a detailed accounting of life in the Clinton White House. It will open your eyes!
Rusty Shackleford @ 148:
well not that savvy, rules are changing due to the 2006 political activity compliance initiative.
from the IRS web page: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=161131,00.html
Earlier this year, the IRS released the results of its 2006 Political Activity Compliance Initiative which investigated allegations of political campaign activity by 501(c)(3) organizations during the 2006 campaign season. For the 2006 election cycle, the IRS received 237 referals and selected 100 (44 churches, 56 nonchurches) for examination. More than half of these cases are still under investigation. However, the IRS did substantiate improper political activity in 26 cases and issued written advisories. So far, there are no revocation recommendations. (In 2004, the IRS selected 110 cases for examination, issued 69 written advisories, revoked the tax-exempt status of five organizations and proposed revocation for two others.)
[Edited]
here is the link to the document report from 2005 that explains the fast track process of investigations:
http://www.treas.gov/tigta/auditreports/2005reports/200510035fr.pdf
The EO function established a “fast track” process to
review allegations of potential political intervention by
exempt organizations
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The PIP included two sets of information
i am a Unitarian Universalist which is extremely biased to the left. political bias drives me crazy, even if it comes from my side of the political fence.
personally, i do not attend service for politics, but for spiritual connection.
that said, the IRS should have been investigated by the justice dept. a long time ago for Bill of Rights violations.
the bastards took all the money out of my bank account just a few months ago because of a mistake made on my 2004 1099 return. i almost lost my house as a result, which i have the right to be secure in (see 4th amendment).
criminals.
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