Bush denying access to "the dustbin of history"?
By bluegal Sunday Mar 02, 2008 4:09pm
Some of us progressives have comforted ourselves that after the Bush administration is over, the history books will finally tell the truth. Not so fast. History News Network (George Mason Univ.):
The Bush administration’s Executive Order 13233 underscores the new fact that presidential legacies, once the domain of academic historians and parlor game aficionados, have become a serious business — so much so that a president has mounted a Kremlinesque campaign to stifle the free dissemination of information. The Bush administration is playing for keeps.
Bush’s Executive Order 13233 could change history — literally — by restricting historians’ access to materials that help them document and ultimately judge a president’s actions, lapses, and principles.
Executive Order 13233 gives ex-presidents nearly unlimited discretionary authority to prohibit the release of their papers, and allows them to name designees who can act in their stead. Moreover, a sitting president may also prevent the release of a predecessor’s papers — as Bush has already done with some of Ronald Reagan’s papers — even when the predecessor has authorized his papers’ release. These are radical encroachments on the public’s access to documents that were produced in the public interest, at public expense, by officials elected by the public. Citizens can challenge these decisions in court, but the expense and time commitment will discourage most people from trying.
A House-approved bill that would undo this blatant assault on openness has been held up in the Senate. Even if the measure advances, there is no guarantee that Congress could override Bush’s expected veto.
The bill reversing this travesty is advocated in Public Citizen's online letter for your Senator.
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that CAN be rescinded by the next president
CoIntelPro @ 1:
Ya but will they want to? Are Clinton's records public?
so, the next president issues an executive order invalidating all of the executive orders of Bush's regime. There, fixed.
it's going to be hard for Bush's minions to enforce this from behind bars at the Hague.
This little pissant. Running, hiding...praying and hoping he can get out of Dodge and run out the rest of his useless, pathetic little life without having to listen to criticism and SEEING his crimes, ignorance and pathetic ineptness aired out for all the world to see.
He's a narcissistic little coward.
I took action. Thanks bluegal.
http://action.citizen.org/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=22958
As they say, once the tool has been put in your toolbox, you really dont like giving it back.
They want to Data Mine and do Pattern Recognition and inquire what books are being checked out from libraries, all in the presumption of guilt for ALL AMERICANS.
But they don't want us to see our own public records.
I agree that the next president can easily rescind Bush's attempt to change the history of his administration. And why would a Democrat WANT to let Bush get away with such an "order" for all time?
anney @ 8:
Oh I don't know, so they can too?
The next president can definitely overrule that Executive Order. Something tells me President Obama and Clinton wont.
Look at the phony Ronald Reagan legend that even Democrats parrot as though it were all true. Optimistic great communicator my ass. The truth is he was an aloof, stupid, unengaged, stupid, old, stupid, soulless, stupid heartless boob who undermined our society for the benefit of big business and the venal Republican Party. Just like another dunderhead president we know. But people believe whatever they hear on the teevee.
Tony @ 10:
I find it hard to believe any Prez in a dead duck year, would go all out with these privacy things, and FISA, etc, etc, and then the next one not use it? No, Dem or Rep Prez will love them as much as Bushie.
322
Number of days left of this miserable, corrupt, and failed regime.
ConcernedCanuck @ 12:
This isn't new, CC. The administration has been doing this since '01 or '02, iirc.
The executive order was signed after 9/11/01. - BG
Congress can also reverse this, assuming they override Bush's veto.
Exactly #7, the Bushies are illegally spying on us, but we can't know what our own government is doing.
Obama has a lot less to hide than Clinton, so he could probably be persuaded to rescind this act of cowardice.
Personally, I'd love to see ALL of the past presidential dirt exposed. Hell, we paid their salaries for all their time in office.
Whose government is this anyway? There's only one reason for being so secretive and that's that they've got something to hide. I think presidential candidates should be asked before the election what they will do to open up government.
We all know what history will say about Georgie. Incompetant warmonger, indifferent snob and the worst foreign policy in history. I would like to go on, but it will take forever to type.
01-20-09 ... The End of an Error
Write Congress to let them know we want free flow of information.
The is not the Kremlin.
Yeah P.D.,
But it's probably worse than we can even imagine. The details would help.
What the fuck???
I swear, this Admin is such bullshit.
The Bush Administration has done us a great favor. It's given us a tremendous wake up call. Since the elementary grades I've been taught that the United States of America is the greatest, strongest, most inviolable nation ever. I still want to believe it, but because of this administration we are more fragile than any time in our history. This group is sticking in our face and stealing the Constitution and everything else that makes/made our nation great.
How can we criticize the Russians, Chinese or whoever in their politics when we have sunk this low. Isn't there anything that can be done? Is there anyone or any entity to take back the country before everyone sees how far we have fallen?
That is a great graphic. 20 points.
If he's that desperate to "lock it up", you know it's extra-strength-BAD. Why are we NOT surprised?
Write to Congress and let them know we want an open Government, this is NOT thwe Kremlin!
01-20-2009 ... The End of an Error!
Andy K @ 14:
This Executive Order was issued 11/1/01.
The news here is that there's legislation in the Congress that might disallow it.
To turn a phrase of W's:
The President serves at the pleasure of The People.
You work for us! Show us your work!
In this case, the operative symbol is dung heap instead of dustbin.
The democrats say that if that's what Bush wants, there must be a good reason
And besides, this is Bush's country. . . not yours !
Somewhere in the third level of Hell, Dick Nixon is smiling.
Paul @ 3:
Once Bush leaves Washington how are the going to get anything back? I seriously doubt anything will be left after they get through with the New Years shredding party and hard drive burning. Bush can leave no shred (pun intended) of evidence of what he and his band of thieves have done. If they do you'll see people going to jail for a long time, or else I would hope if they get in the right hands.
Of course there's always Paraguay which I hear Jenna and notJenna just love.
I just can't see Obama going after Bush either. I can just see him playing the let's look towards the future and not the past card as the neocons slink out of town. As much as it pains me to say it, I don't think these criminals will ever be prosecuted for their crimes. That they won't truly shames this country and its citizens.
Paul @ 3:
That's what I'd like to see, sure nuff. That'll knock out all of Bush's EOs that have authorized torture and all kinds of things we don't know about yet.
lj @ 23:
I've thought about that very same thing over the past few years. With everyone chanting, "We're number one!", sometimes we lose sight of the facts: our standing in the world has plummeted, our civil rights and free speech too. The economy is heading towards the shitter.
I don't know where we are, but we definitely aren't Number One. Maybe 26th?
OT
I personally think it would be a great idear if folks in the Progressive community started getting behind an effort to help make Howard Dean Barak Obama’s running mate. Dean was endorsed by Al Gore and Jimmy Carter in 2004 and was a cornerstone of the Democratic Congressional victories in 2006.
For many months, I was under the impression that both Obama and Clinton would be hard pressed to pick Wes Clark for his military and foreign policy credentials. However, after seeing the margins of victory Obama has been getting in the primaries, and the weakness of John McCain as a candidate, it seems he’ll have the opportunity to look further afield for a Vice Presidential contender. Dean, as running mate would take his 50 State Strategy and his “$100 Revoluion” to the next level, thus solidifying any Congressional gains in this election cycle.
Progressives have a good amount of time before the convention to move this forward. Most of us here understand what America could be if Howard Dean were in the White House for as many as 16 years. If Obama could consider Republicans in his Administration, he should consider having Dean at his back.
Think about it. Please.
Obama/Dean 08
“Change the Paradigm”
Andy K @ 15:
This isn't Bush personally. This will be the entire government, so even after he is gone, a helluva pile of civil servants are still there.......but.......hey........at least you don't live in this house!!:
MOGADISHU, Somalia - U.S. aircraft attacked a house in a southern Somali town before dawn Monday, targeting terrorism suspects as an Islamic group with links to al-Qaida appears to be gathering sway again in this lawless African nation.
Residents and police in Dobley said at least eight people, including four children, were seriously injured when the home was destroyed by the raid, which was confirmed by U.S. officials.
Impeachment solves many problems, excepting which dungeon to let Chimpy and Cheney rot in for the rest of their lives.
The Colorado Super Max has my vote.
AshWilliams @ 34:
I can tell you this from South East Asia, The U.S. Standing has plummeted to the bottom.
Most people coming through here on vacations etc. hate bush and what he has done not only to America, but to the entire world.
Vote on who you want in Barack Obama's Cabinet Positions...
http://puredem.wordpress.com If that so ends up being the case :)
Listening to all this posterior olfactory output emanating from somebody that was allegedly elected without procedural “irregularities”, it’s obvious except to maybe that claimed 25% that drug enhanced paranoia is a part of the systematic paradigm. I am always fascinated how isolated we become after our teenage years, and it would appear that this particular individual has been isolated at least that long. What happens is a process of faulty thinking being confirmed because we don't present our ideas to a critical public or a trusted medical professional. Rather we hold these ideas to the little rodent of our psyches, which runs the mobius strip wheel of our egos. You know, one of the most common statements mentioned by neighbors after they pull the bullet riddled body of the sniper from the top of the local water tower, "He was a good neighbor, though I never talked to him, he seemed to keep to himself. He kept his lawn mowed. He put a flag out on 4th of July, and wore a flag button in his lapel."
P.D. @ 19:
You don't have to. It's already been done: http://www.netrootsmass.net/Hugh/Bush_list.html
Junior is just making sure that historians don't find out that Daddy orchestrated and engineered the First Gulf War in 1991 (duping Saddam and forcing the Kurds to increase oil supply, choking off Saddam), thus setting this whole Iraq motion in business.
Obama/Dean 08
“Change the Paradigm”
That does sound great!!!
this is the last straw.
bush and cheney need to removed from office
by any means necessary. the fourth amendment
of the constitution give the citizens the right to
overthrow any tyrannical govt threatening the United States,
and that includes the pres/vp.
Orangutan. @ 39:
Cool site with only one slight problem....um Obama is running as the change candidate...how come all the position choices are the same people that are already in? I mean, swearing in the exact same politicians, isn't really change, is it?
I want to know when they will start refunding Visa fees to the legal immigrants,
we paid thousands for all the forms, letters to and from the INS USCIS, plus all the fees for interviews and gov office visits.
What with the US economy tanking due to gov incompetence and Republican greed, and the standard of living in the US going down the toilet, I feel they ripped us legal immigrants off big time ;)
Hmm, where should Chimpy and Dick spend their days in jail: how about rendering them to Iraq to answer for their war crimes?
Leslie @ 47:
Guantanamo, of course. All the people that served in the administration from January 20th, 2000 should do time there. I hear waterboarding is an efective tool for coercing the truth out of uncoopeating people.
Fortunately, we do not need any documents.
Everyone knows what Bush told us. It is on video.
We all know that it was a bunch of bullshit.
That is well documented also.
The only thing that is not documented is proof of what Bush knew and when he knew it.
This could be easily available to us if the House of Representatives, and John Conyers in particular, would do
their jobs and begin impeachment procedings.
Let the son of a bitch be questioned under oath.
Let him lie.
Let him be confronted by witnesses.
He'll probably wind up in jail.
But even if he were to escape punishment, the missing evidence would be readily available.
Either way he would wind up in the dust bin - or shit box - that he so richly deserves.
The dustbin of history...not be confused with Ned's Atomic Dustin
Astral Technician @ 35:
Dr. Dean would have been a great president. America and the Democratic Party really blew it big time letting Dr. Dean go to the wayside.
StirFry @ 50:
They were a great band! I actually have them on my iPod.
ConcernedCanuck @ 10:
Absolutely.
That's why the dems, including Clinton and Saint Bullshitter Obama, oppose impeachment.
Dems and Repubs are owned by the same folks.
And when Ralph Nader says this out loud, the progressives and liberals get all puffy.
The stupidity of this electoral season is disheartening to say the least.
ferrofluid @ 46:
New slogan for the statue of liberty: Caveat Emptor
What a fucking swindle. He knows that if these records were made public he could be brought up on charges. Is there any possible way we can protest this? Have we no recourse?
The Bush administration want to prohibit the release of their papers - I'm shocked and appalled!
President Obama will be able to write his own executive order when he becomes president that will make all of bush's signing statements and executive orders null and void. Then we can move forward as a nation and get out of the bush cesspool.
Kerry @ 43:
I like it! If only the dems could get their act together and soon!
PayOff @ 49:
It ain't gonna happen.
This is the most impeachable president in history.
But the democratic leadership under Pelosi and Reid won't lead.
Conyers, as you said, won't do his job and won't lead.
Obama isn't going to say anything.
Clinton isn't going to say anything either.
it's simply another of W's easy going ways of restoring honor to the White House and uniting us with his steady leadership as the steward of the Office of POTUS.
And oh yeah one more thing, be sure to not let the door slap us on the ass on his way out.
The next President will come bearing pardons I bet. Only is the US this fucked up.
Bush’s Executive Order 13233 could change history — literally — by restricting historians’ access to materials that help them document and ultimately judge a president’s actions, lapses, and principles.
Good! Then Americans will be able to judge for themselves. They will tell the truth for generations to come.
That the Bush/Cheney Junta and the Republican Crime Syndicate was the beginning of the end of a free and vibrant America loved by the entire world until the year 2001.
R. I. P. America 1776 - 2001
[Please knock it off with the All Bold thing. Like it's cousin, All Caps, All Bold is a member of the Shouting family. We've asked you to cease this before. From here on out your All Bold (or All Caps) will be deleted. Thank you. Site Monitor]
They (The Bush Administration) have spent money, time and effort to undermine the average citizens right to privacy under some boogieman scare policy.. And now are working tooth and nail to ensure the privacy of this administration and all others before or to come mendacity.... Just what the fuck are we becoming... What are we allowing this generation of pathetic political leadership to do... They will ruin the very fabric we claim this country stands for... This is an all out attack on the democratic principles and the constitution, this nation was founded on... JD
Only criminals need to cover their tracks.
How does Bush propose to "keep" documents he hasn't retained?
He's looked at the National Archives as something he doesn't need to comply with. How does he expect them to shield documents he hasn't adequately preserved?
Bush is wacko.
He can keep 'em for all I care, because it's not like we don't have enough documented proof of his incompetence outside and irresponsibility outside of his office.
Someone needs to read the little douche bag shrub a history book. This shit didn't work for Stalin either.
Visions of future reference books with photoshopped images of current congress sans dems and flight suit codpieces edited for enhancement.
I have news for you guys. Historians won't need to have George Bush's trash to figure out he was a terrible president. Now 911, that's another story. Does anybody really not understand what these criminals are really trying to hide?
Thank you comment #1 for recognizing that an Executive Order is not a law. It is an Order from a President. No more no less. It cannot bind the next President, and it can just as easily be rescinded by the next President, just as a successive Congress can repeal any law previously passed. Let's just hope that the people in charge know this as well. My own $.02: is there anything Bush does that has the best interests of America at heart.
FOX is State Sponsored TV @ 8:
I thought you were going to say but when it comes to their privacy, well, that's a whole 'notha story.
I think America knows how awful this thing called Bush is, but do they really?
I'll say it again. Impeachment. Without it we will be luck if our grandkids even find out the whole truth. Counting on Obama or Clinton to reveal all is beyond naïve. Name an instance where an incoming preznit told on an outgoing one. Never happened and never will. In coming prez wants to say it’s all about a new day and reach around hugs for everybody that will get on board his/her new ‘program’. They will let congressional surrogates beat up on the other party but never reveal what’s in the vaults.
No, if you want even a shadow of the truth, Impeachment is the way.
This is a problem and we must take to the streets. Organizations such as moveon.org, and yes, even Crooks and Liars, must organize people and begin protesting this. As stated in an earlier post, we must take down tyrancial government authorities. This includes 90% of congress. If I only had the know-how I'd do it myself. People lets organize and overcome this regime. Those that have power and influence, exert it for the benefit of the people. You will be smiled on and blessed by our lord. There is a great guide in the overthrow of the Bosnian regime, but I can't think of the name. Perhaps someone that knows what I'm talking about will post it so others can receive a lesson of the power of people over their dictator.
motorfingaz @ 62:
Correction. 1776 - 1974. This country died when we could print money endlessly.
john in california @ 71:
mmm that lovely word 'Impeachment' lets spell it out for dear Nancy and the various other 'hard of thinking' Congresscritters.
I M P E A C H M E N T here hoping this helps them a tad.
Pursang @ 32:
And if they miss some stuff they can send in Sandy Beger for clean up detail.
Given that he's already locked all of his Texas Gubernatorial records in the Bush Sr. library, and errased millions of email, I don't know why they bother with secrecy LEGISLATION. They just destroy evidence. It's called 'spilling soup to cover vomit.' I look bad when I errase emails, but not as bad as I would if you'd actually been able to SEE them.
ferrofluid @ 74:
ferrofluid @ 74:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama laid out a list of political shortcomings he sees in the Bush administration but said he opposes impeachment for either President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney.
DeadAim @ 78:
Maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way then. How about petitioning the UN to declare Bush and his minions "War Criminals", so that if they step foot off US soil, they are detained immediately for trial?
ConcernedCanuck @ 79:
Maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way then. How about petitioning the UN to declare Bush and his minions "War Criminals", so that if they step foot off US soil, they are detained immediately for trial?
Then Rendition his ass off to Denmark.
yeah, and WHATEVER. All it would take is ANOTHER presidential order from Pres. Obama to rescind previous presidential orders. Done. Happy now?
You know, the problem is I don't know if you're completely fabricating the details or just exaggerating them.
Posts like these are not helpful because you don't clearly differentiate between fact and "maybe not fact". you should always include a link to the text of the "Executive Order" itself, whatever that might mean.
This segment:
"Bush’s Executive Order 13233 could change history — literally — by restricting historians’ access to materials that help them document and ultimately judge a president’s actions, lapses, and principles."
doesn't seem to meet any sort of journalistic threshold. it sounds like an overly generalized overreaction to a specific bill or other legal document.
by not providing the text of the original document, the presentor is implying that there could be no other interpretation of the facts, which is always, of course, wrong.
Well, Dubya is determined to let history be the judge of his Presidency. He sure can't let documents cause him to be judged a fuckin disaster now can he?
Hmmm, that's an interesting angle that I didn't consider. It would be nice to see, but my initial thinking is that the U.N. is to reliant on U.S. backing to do something like that. Then again, it looks more realistic to expect that to be fruitful than our own internal mechanisms.
I think bush has been bathing in the blood of his victims, probably eating them too.
It's not that big of a step away from torturing your victims to death.
Chicken. Shit. Lying. Sack.
Feelin' proud of your preznit, republican goofball sheep?
Joe Socks @ 82:
You are sir a maroon.
Bush is as much a Fascist Republican as Reagan was and his dad still is.
Secrecy is the defining characteristic of any Fascist regime. Fascists have so much to hide. Therefore, Bush is trying to hide all the criminal and un-American acts he and his cohorts have committed, as well as trying to cover up all that his Fascist Republican predecessors have done. And none of what the Fascist Republicans have done or are doing has anything at all to do with national security. It's CYA only, where the Fascist Republicans are concerned.
Joe Socks @ 82:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011101-12.html
Found within 1 second of typing in "Executive Order 13233".
Sheesh...
America used to be a democracy, didn't it? I've almost forgotten.
Next Obama rally, somebody ask him if he will repeal this EO if elected.
One more thing, you think Bush wouldnt destroy the evidence before Obama got in office?
I'm a George Mason student, cool that we picked up on this.
muck @ 92:
Five million destroyed emails and Dubya is still worried.
I don't think he did anything that wasn't impeachable.
For the past six-odd years since 9-11, the Bush administration and its supporters have been telling the American people (either directly or indirectly) that people who have nothing to hide should have no problem with the government reading their mail or looking into their financial records or listening in on their telephone conversations -- that anyone who objects to this must be trying to hide something. However, what they refuse to acknowledge is that IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. If insisting on the right to privacy is considered sufficient reason for the government to suspect an ordinary citizen of something unsavory, the government's insistence on keeping so many secrets should be considered sufficient reason for the ordinary citizen to suspect the government of something unsavory -- because the more secrets a government is allowed to keep, the more corrupt it has the potential to become. If the Bush administration has absolutely nothing shameful or unsavory to hide, then why has it been keeping so much information from the American people over the last six-odd years -- and why this new executive order giving Bush the option of making these secrets more or less permanent? While they always claim that this is in the interest of "national security", just whose security are they really protecting -- ours, or their own? Just because the two should be one and the same does not always mean that they are one and the same.
To those who still defend Bush, I ask you...
Why do you love ignorance?
Bush's EO was to keep the records of his Daddy and Reagan from seeing the light of day, as required by the Presidential Records Act of 1978. Because the records show their Iran/Contra TREASON.
12 years out of office, the Act stipulated that the records become public.
Reagan's was due at the end of 2001, and GHW Bush at the end of 2005.
Iran/Contra TREASON and GENOCIDE. It's what it's ALL about...
Bangkok Bob @ 26:
more like the end of a hideous nightmare!!
Bush will do damage from now until he leaves office. Some acts will be secret. Some not. Only impeachment can stop him.
do we need more proof than what is already available in the public market? The guy is a complete and utter fuck up. Historians just need to put a large mark from 2001-2008. Let's call it a skid mark. The 8 years when the president wiped his ass with our constitution, and flushed the country down the toilet.
Joe Socks @ 82:
Yes, Joe Socks, you are correct journalists always give their readers full citations and credentials, especially when they use anonymous sources and unnamed "senior Administration officals."
Smedley Butler said there is two things worth dying for 1) fight for your home 2) bill of rights. Keep writing to your congressperson. Did you ever get a response?
Orangutan. @ 6:
I also took action thanks to Bluegal. Anybody?
I am truly convinced that Jr thinks that the winners get to write the history and he still thinks he's a winner. The problem for him is that historians write history, and they dont always take the winners word for it. The idiot just might get to decide what official (forged) papers get handed out, but his actions all speak louder than his lies and are already out in the open. he can't control other peoples perceptions of him or other countries, his attempts like everything in his life is doomed to abject failure.
motorfingaz @ 62:
R.I.P. America 1776-1963
Our country was altered forever when it was proven that a president could be taken out for defying the wishes of the CIA.
Well now it's official: The ONLY book in The Chimpy McFlightsuit library will be "My Pet Goat".
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