Just say frist.

we can only hope these convicts have not been spending their time in jail manufacturing crack...

can you imagine the stock of product that would enter the market???

now that would be a problem...

Peter Hollman @ 3:

we can only hope these convicts have not been spending their time in jail manufacturing crack...

can you imagine the stock of product that would enter the market???

now that would be a problem...

mmm, prison crack

RayC @ 6:

Peter Hollman @ 3:

we can only hope these convicts have not been spending their time in jail manufacturing crack...

can you imagine the stock of product that would enter the market???

now that would be a problem...

Do you have a clue what crack is?

For the most part, the only crack that convicts see is the one belonging to their cellmates.

Run for the hills

There's some nubile young hillbilly daughters on the loose!

Filthy Harry @ 5:

Peter Hollman @ 3:

we can only hope these convicts have not been spending their time in jail manufacturing crack...

can you imagine the stock of product that would enter the market???

now that would be a problem...

mmm, prison crack

You're not referring to the kind when they bend over for the soap are you now?

serious drugs like crack should have harsher penalties than marijuana(which
should be legalized) but the sentences for drugs should not be
harsher than for murder......period

Prohibition doesn't work. It just creates an underworld of crime, murder and mayhem. Then, we the taxpayer, have to pay to feed them, house them, doctor them, heat them, clothe them, ect. We'd be much better off, legalizing them, and using the tax money we spend on the "war on drugs" for rehab and education.

dadams @ 13:

serious drugs like crack should have harsher penalties than marijuana(which
should be legalized) but the sentences for drugs should not be
harsher than for murder......period

You realize that crack is coke right? Same drug every intern uses to get through those 48 and 72 hour shifts?

dadams @ 13:

serious drugs like crack should have harsher penalties than marijuana(which
should be legalized) but the sentences for drugs should not be
harsher than for murder......period

Marijuana should be mandatory. That aside the main problem with crack is that the initial fears that it was more potent/dangerous than coke were incorrect, (studies that have come out since the initial overreaction have shown that all the initial fears were wrong) yet a 5 grams of crack (likely to be found in a black inner city kids pocket, or at least easily planted on one), gets you the same jail sentence as 500 grams of coke (likely to be found white businessman's condo).

Now come on, that is fucking ridiculous.

John Amato @ 18:

I'm trying to wake people up to the Indiana Case is all...

Also I'm guessing the number of crackheads posting here is higher than the number of people from Indiana (who may also be crackheads)

Filthy Harry @ 5:

Peter Hollman @ 3:

we can only hope these convicts have not been spending their time in jail manufacturing crack...

can you imagine the stock of product that would enter the market???

now that would be a problem...

mmm, prison crack

Is that anuthing like plumber's crack?

Mark @ 24:

1 in 100 Americans is in jail this very moment. That is a disturbing number.

more per capita than any country on earth.

Bangkok Bob @ 17:

dadams @ 13:

serious drugs like crack should have harsher penalties than marijuana(which
should be legalized) but the sentences for drugs should not be
harsher than for murder......period

You realize that crack is coke right? Same drug every intern uses to get through those 48 and 72 hour shifts?

i don't do drugs, but i do understand the differences of recreational and hardcore
users. we just don't need to fill up our prisons with stupid social differences. it costs on the average $50 thousand/inmate/yr for housing of these people. i would rather
see our money spent on prevention of drug use and other useful social programs,
then waste it on meaningless housing.

Filthy Harry @ 2:

I'm against harsh penalties for drug dealers. The systems is so out of whack that its a joke to call it justice.

Drug dealers? You mean the government? They are the biggest dealers in the world. Somebody has to market all that Colombian and Afghani drugs.

Edwin @ 28:

Why is booze the only legal drug? It can be every bit as destructive as any other drug.

Tax money. The government makes it. Just like gambling. Nothing is illegal if it's taxable.

The number of prisoners getting out today: 12
The number of federal prisoners who can apply for early release: 1,900
Total number of prisoners who might be released over the next 30 years: 19,000

The reason they might be released early is that the mandatory sentences for crack offenses is 100 times longer than the sentence for "powder cocaine" offenses.

Not a typo: 100 to 1

This is being reduced to 20 to 1

Horrors.

Who uses crack cocaine (which is cheap)? Black and Hispanic people.
Who uses old-fasioned cocaine (which is expensive)? White people.

The US Sentencing Commission thought this might, maybe be a teensy-tinsy bit racist.

They must be liberals who want us all to be murdered in out beds, letting out so many black people.

I've never seen anybody debilitated from smoking pot. OTOH, I know some alcoholics who have ruined their lives.

dadams @ 27:

Bangkok Bob @ 17:

dadams @ 13:

serious drugs like crack should have harsher penalties than marijuana(which
should be legalized) but the sentences for drugs should not be
harsher than for murder......period

You realize that crack is coke right? Same drug every intern uses to get through those 48 and 72 hour shifts?

i don't do drugs, but i do understand the differences of recreational and hardcore
users. we just don't need to fill up our prisons with stupid social differences. it costs on the average $50 thousand/inmate/yr for housing of these people. i would rather
see our money spent on prevention of drug use and other useful social programs,
then waste it on meaningless housing.

There is no such thing as a recreational user. Use it, lose brain cells. Proven. Hell, just talk to anybody local. I live in a small town where I would wager at least 60% of adults are "recreational" users, and you talk to them for 10 minutes and you see the lack of braincells. People I've known for years that are just "recreational" users, have lower IQs now than they did when I first got to know them. What is so much fun in killing brain cells? "Wow did I get high last night." And it accomplished what? Nothing.

Can anyone demonstrate to me how the majority of the Extreme Court is different in even the smallest way from the stooges who sat as judges on Hitler's People's courts?

Some future Supreme Court is going to have a field day overturning this Extreme Court's findings and decisions, due to the corruption of the majority, the twisting of the court to support corrupt interests, it's departure from legal principles and its betrayal of its trust to the Constitution. History is going to remember the fucktards of this majority (including Sandra Day O'Connor) as little more than thugs in robes.

This is a Court that has put property rights (but only the property rights of the wealthy and powerful) above Human Rights. It has placed the rights of corporations above the rights of individuals. It has betrayed principle at every turn in favor of shifting political expedients. It has abetted tyranny to the maximum extent possible, in betrayal of a Constitution which it's members are sworn to defend and uphold. It performed a successful coup, installing the 21st Century's only war criminal and criminal against humanity. It has turned lies and intellectual dishonesty into a judicial virtue. This is a court that has worked tirelessly to erase every bit of human progress, every bit of social justice, every bit of economic justice that has been achieved in the last 150 years. These are people who are unworthy of respect as jurists.

Footage of the release and its aftermath here

Floridiot @ 42:

John Amato @ 18:

I'm trying to wake people up to the Indiana Case is all...

A good point was made.
Why is the burden of hardship even considered when it should be all put on the evidence of fraud ? which there is no proof.

5-4 Bush v Gore

Yet, bring up net neutrality to a conservative they start screaming about how we should show harm before a law is made. grrr conservatives make me mad. Gonna go do some crack.

All drugs should be legal. The government should stop trying to protect people from themselves.

I know this is off topic and my apologies to our host but this is too rich. Anybody remember Rachel Marsden, Canada's other gift to right wing nuttery. Well check this out: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article3475722...

Bangkok Bob @ 10:

These damn Crack users have to step up if they expect to be treated fairly.
Repeat after me ... Crack (cooked into a rock using baking powder so you can smoke it ... BAD! Big jail-time.

Just plain ol' Coke in powder form so you can snort it ... Good (it's what the white upwardly mobile crowd does.) No, or very small penalty.

Those extremely harsh sentences as well as the removal of the plea bargain and the addition of mandatory minimum sentences were all the product of the idiotically over-zealous Rep. Charles Rangel of NYC, NY. His reasoning was to deter the distribution of crack in the black community, which he felt was disproportionately burdened with the crack epidemic. Needless to say, the prison industry and law enforcements types nationwide took up the banner and rand with it.

Cleaning up the democracy, getting a FAIR election, should be a high priority for the dems. The machine knows when your turning 18, and get you registered for the "if need be" draft pretty efficiently, how about registering you to vote while they are at it? You owe local taxes, your local government knows who you are, where you are, what you owe, how about adding a voter registration form to send in with your payment? You got a drivers license, and auto registration, DMV knows where and who you are, and will be sending you a paper notice on a regular basis, why not , etc. etc. etc. Point is, the republicans have worked and are working now very hard to do all they can to keep people away from the poles, to steal what they can while they can, and the dems need to take this very seriously. And it seems to me that there are some very effective simple ways to reverse the trend towards disenfranchising voters, like.....

Filthy Harry @ 40:

ConcernedCanuck @ 37:

dadams @ 27:

Bangkok Bob @ 17:

i don't do drugs, but i do understand the differences of recreational and hardcore
users. we just don't need to fill up our prisons with stupid social differences. it costs on the average $50 thousand/inmate/yr for housing of these people. i would rather
see our money spent on prevention of drug use and other useful social programs,
then waste it on meaningless housing.

There is no such thing as a recreational user. Use it, lose brain cells. Proven. Hell, just talk to anybody local. I live in a small town where I would wager at least 60% of adults are "recreational" users, and you talk to them for 10 minutes and you see the lack of braincells. People I've known for years that are just "recreational" users, have lower IQs now than they did when I first got to know them. What is so much fun in killing brain cells? "Wow did I get high last night." And it accomplished what? Nothing.

Ok, that's how you feel about drugs, thats fine, but are you saying these people should be institutionalized in prison? especially with a system that disproportionately punishes poor and black people over wealthier and white people?

Nope. Should be all legalized and taxed. Tax it massively. Hell, increase taxes every 3 months on alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, and oh, lets legalize prostitution too. More tax dollars. We have to get $$$ from somewhere to get the economy rolling again. So, instead of a tax increase on just one section of the population, hit everybody. No pain, no gain.

Sam from Ithaca @ 16:

John,

Perhaps you should be against harsh penalties for drug dealers. A much better system would be for all currently illegal drugs to be brought into a regulated marketplace. Then drug dealers wouldn't even be breaking the law at all.

The War on Drugs has been a complete disaster. Illegal drugs are everywhere today. In fact, high schoolers report that they are EASIER to get than legal drugs (alcohol, tobacco). This stands to reason. After all, only regulated drug dealers ask for ID. I will also note that Prohibition did not reduce rates of alcohol abuse, but it did manage to increase rates of homicide and other nasty things. Lower-case-p prohibition has a similar track record.

For more information check out Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

ConcernedCanuck @ 53:

Filthy Harry @ 40:

ConcernedCanuck @ 37:

dadams @ 27:

There is no such thing as a recreational user. Use it, lose brain cells. Proven. Hell, just talk to anybody local. I live in a small town where I would wager at least 60% of adults are "recreational" users, and you talk to them for 10 minutes and you see the lack of braincells. People I've known for years that are just "recreational" users, have lower IQs now than they did when I first got to know them. What is so much fun in killing brain cells? "Wow did I get high last night." And it accomplished what? Nothing.

Ok, that's how you feel about drugs, thats fine, but are you saying these people should be institutionalized in prison? especially with a system that disproportionately punishes poor and black people over wealthier and white people?

Nope. Should be all legalized and taxed. Tax it massively. Hell, increase taxes every 3 months on alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, and oh, lets legalize prostitution too. More tax dollars. We have to get $$$ from somewhere to get the economy rolling again. So, instead of a tax increase on just one section of the population, hit everybody. No pain, no gain.

Ok, then we cool. And forget the tax. Stop the war in Iraq and you'd have no problems.

This man is right on the money. We ALL need to rethink how we treat this NON-VIOLENT crime. Clearly, tobacco and especially alcohol do more to mess up our health, families, and communities than crack (if you disregard the effect of our treatment of crack offenders). MORE THAN HALF of federal prisoners are in prison due to this non-violent offense (drug-related charges). Clearly, I know that the use of crack and the selling of crack can lead to violent offenses, but that is a separate charge and should be treated as a separate offense.

This is all of a piece in which you punish the seller for selling to a willing buyer. That goes against all principles of the free market, so even conservatives should get the point.

I do beg to differ on the issue of prohibition reducing alcohol abuse. Alcohol abuse went up or stayed the same among wealthier citizens, but was greatly reduced in rural areas that were poorer (follow the money?). I think, though, that alcohol, drug, and tobacco abuse could seriously be reduced through government intervention/public announcement/treatment interdictions. That's how we need to be spending our tax money. It's more efficient. It's more humane. It's more civilized.

Larry Bumgardner @ 59:

This man is right on the money. We ALL need to rethink how we treat this NON-VIOLENT crime. Clearly, tobacco and especially alcohol do more to mess up our health, families, and communities than crack (if you disregard the effect of our treatment of crack offenders). MORE THAN HALF of federal prisoners are in prison due to this non-violent offense (drug-related charges). Clearly, I know that the use of crack and the selling of crack can lead to violent offenses, but that is a separate charge and should be treated as a separate offense.

This is all of a piece in which you punish the seller for selling to a willing buyer. That goes against all principles of the free market, so even conservatives should get the point.

I do beg to differ on the issue of prohibition reducing alcohol abuse. Alcohol abuse went up or stayed the same among wealthier citizens, but was greatly reduced in rural areas that were poorer (follow the money?). I think, though, that alcohol, drug, and tobacco abuse could seriously be reduced through government intervention/public announcement/treatment interdictions. That's how we need to be spending our tax money. It's more efficient. It's more humane. It's more civilized.

And the funny thing is, it works!!! It's so very frustrating to see the science, the examples, the facts, completely ignored, disregarded and just using a bigger and bigger stick year after year. 1 in 100 Americans now incarcerated, that today's number? Maybe if we criminalized profiting from the "injustice" system?

[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]

legalize marijuana!

Did you know that in some jurisdictions the private corporation that runs the prison gets paid for the sentence arrived at on conviction? That's how some people get sentenced to 25 years for selling crack. It doesn't matter that the sentence will get overturned or reduced later. The company still gets paid a sum equal to ~$90 per day for 25 years to house the convict. The convict doesn't have to serve a day. I wonder if there might be any "hidden incentives" for judges to hand out ridiculous sentences in these jurisdictions?

Save Our Troops @ 67:

Did you know that in some jurisdictions the private corporation that runs the prison gets paid for the sentence arrived at on conviction? That's how some people get sentenced to 25 years for selling crack. It doesn't matter that the sentence will get overturned or reduced later. The company still gets paid a sum equal to ~$90 per day for 25 years to house the convict. The convict doesn't have to serve a day. I wonder if there might be any "hidden incentives" for judges to hand out ridiculous sentences in these jurisdictions?

Theres was leaked meeting notes a while back from some penal conference in California from some private jail companies and how they were going to meet their racial quotas.

Shifting young black potential voters into prison and also disenfranchising people who get out is the perfect way to remove a populations voice.
Its ridiculous that somebody who is an prisoner is considered a felon and has no voting and other rights, down right unconstitutional if you ask me.

I would almost bet money that America is alone in the world in having the 2nd class felon as well as 1st class citizen category for its people.

ConcernedCanuck @ 50:

Marcus Aurelius @ 44:

ConcernedCanuck @ 37:

dadams @ 27:

There is no such thing as a recreational user. Use it, lose brain cells. Proven. Hell, just talk to anybody local. I live in a small town where I would wager at least 60% of adults are "recreational" users, and you talk to them for 10 minutes and you see the lack of braincells. People I've known for years that are just "recreational" users, have lower IQs now than they did when I first got to know them. What is so much fun in killing brain cells? "Wow did I get high last night." And it accomplished what? Nothing.

All of what you said might be true (I don't think much of it is) that still doesn't make it your business or society's business what these people do (of course, if they commit an actual crime while they're destroying their brain cells, they have to suffer the consequences just like anybody else. Not additional consequences - the same ones they'd face if they weren't under the influence).

And, oh yeah, where's the proof you cited for your claim about losing brain cells? Got a link?

Google like I did. I didn't say it was any of my business. I think everything should be legalized. Prostitution? Yep. Drugs? Yep. Alcohol? Already is......then tax the living shit right out of it.

not tax the living ****, just a fair balanced tax inline with other similar products in the market place.
high taxes promote smuggling and other unlawful and antisocial behavior, fair taxes makes products boring.