Primary Pain
By John Amato Thursday Mar 06, 2008 10:01pmI'm trying to stay out of the back and forth of the Democratic primary duel as much as I can. When Samantha from Obama's camp says "monster" and Wolfson from the Clinton camp yells "Ken Starr," I can only imagine it will get worse from here because we have two candidates that want to win. I do hope cooler heads prevail in the end though, but I can say this: our readers are a passionate group. I did enjoy this take by Duncan:
I don't have a problem understanding why some people support Obama and some people support Clinton. It really puzzles me why lots of people don't get that simple fact. The point is not that the candidates are identical and no one should be a supporter or care who wins, it's that you should recognize that the other person's supporters aren't necessarily deluded or stupid. You may disagree with their reasons, but they have them.
cscs had a funny post called: Obama and Clinton Supporters Must Drop Out of the Race
And the right wingers are stuck supporting a guy that looks like Bush's grandfather.
One thing is certain though. I will be here when the dust clears and we all can go after Sen. McCranky together.
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My Friends.....
nobody looks totally thrilled in this pic.
Hillary
You have become to emotional. Go home and dust.
"My number one thing that I respect about Obama is that he doesn't take any money from lobbyists. Not a dime. It shows who he is in his character -- it shows that honesty. His Presidency is not going to be about the corporations who funded him, who will want X, Y and Z from him -- it will be about us. We the people. We've had 8 years of the opposite. It says so much about Obama and the people working with him that he's been able to keep up with -- actually, to out-raise -- a lot of these other candidates, who all take money from lobbyists."
Hee hee
They should be going after mccranky now.
Listening to MSM you would think Democrats are doomed. I see it differently, failing economy, endless war, government failure, no future for our children, shall I go on? McCain is a hot-headed creep. He will be destroyed in the debates, I hope.
Howard Wolfson Compares Obama to Ringo Starr
Obama and Hillary are the same?
Hmmm.
One big difference: Obama will be the next preznit and Hillary will be in disbelief about that till the day she dies.
Bit NOLA @ 8:
Not at the rate his going he won't.
The Wing Nuts are going to eat him alive if he doesn't toughen up.
L.A. Confidential @ 9:
He can handle himself just fine.
The DNC and 527s will be the slime machines.
The MSM wants discord and discouragement among the Left, so they're eager to promote and amplify the competition between Obama and Clinton.
If you want to help the Far Right and the conservative media, then adopt a very rigid, judgmental, black-and-white, take-it-or-leave-it attitude towards the Democratic nominee. Adopt a position of 'either my candidate wins, or I'm not voting,' if your goal is to make Karl Rove happy. Advance your particular ideology above the needs of the nation if what you want to do is have a cranky old white guy pick the next four Supreme Court Judges.
But if you care about the nation and the Constitution and the Rule of Law, to say nothing of Peace, then you need to go find a mirror. Go on, find a mirror, any reflective surface where you can see your face. And you TELL YOURSELF that YOU WILL VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE NO MATTER WHICH PERSON IT IS.
Because if we don't, if McCain becomes President, then there are sixteen-year-old Americans someplace right now who will die in Iraq with shrapnel in their brains. There are ten-year-old American children someplace right now who will never know what the concept of "checks and balances" mean, because all power will be concentrated in the hands of the Executive Branch. And there are six-year-old American children out there right now who will die in botched, back-alley abortions in their teens, because the procedure will have been made illegal.
So don't give me your puffery and umbrage about how your candidate MUST win. Give me your promise and your determination to see to it that a crazy old bastard like McCain never sets foot in the Oval Office. Because the other Democrat may not give you everything that you like, but the McCain will give you nothing that you like.
Obama will be the last one standing.
Unless he gets caught praying to Mecca, he's got it locked.
McCain doesn't fill the need that W filled for the populace during the last two preznitial lections.
Obama does.
Hillary is the Corporations best friend.
There is a difference.
I’m trying to stay out of the back and forth of the Democratic primary duel as much as I can.
It's a difficult task, no? I supported neither Clinton nor Obama from the outset of primary season, and now find that critiquing one of them, even on something highly particularized, meets with accusations by the criticized's supporters of brain-dead and unscrupulous support for the other.
Perhaps it would have been better for everyone if the many and varied also-rans had stuck it out passed Super Tuesday despite the unlikelihood of their respective nominations. By now, either Clinton or Obama would have emerged as a clear plurality leader, and might have more easily crept to the majority-of-delegates count as candidates dropped out one-by-one before different primary days.
So far, McRightFrigginNuts looks like the sane one. Pretty pathetic. I know Americans all want their say, but the longer this goes, the uglier it keeps getting. McCain's team just has to record everything Obama and Hillary say about each other, and presto, their's your campaign ads. If McAlmostDead stays out of the spotlight while these two kneecap each other and the Dem Party, he will be Prez.
She crossed the line when she endorsed McCain over Obama. Yet the next day she gets up enough nerve to hint that she and Obama would make a dream ticket. Hillary has proven she has no credibility. Fair or not she's one of the most polarizing political figures in recent memory.
i don't really have a problem with mcHillary supporters...
i have a problem with hillary Clieberman... mcClinton...
whoever she is at this time...
very very disappointed for all the right reasons...
i really did not expect her to sink to ugly rovian ways...
very sorry that she did...
Katy for Barack Hussein Obama '08
Hillary comparing Obama to Ken Starr is truly unforgivable.
She had a chance to back off that statement, but she instead REINFORCED it.
And, she has repeatedly made statements inferring that McCain is more qualified to be president than Obama.
I kind of liked her, but now I REALLY don't want her to win.
Her win-at-all-costs behavior is disturbing, and sad.
When it's 3 am, I want the phone answered by Barack!
The most troubling aspect of the whole shooting match was how poorly Edwards did.
After Feingold, Edwards was the one who should be in the office. Even though I imagine his four years would have been nothing but gridlock with the lobbyists and their Congress.
We just need more true blue dems, since there's no real alternative.
It is like seeing a different side of Hillary these last several months. I've always admired her strength but she is acting like a get-elected-at-ANY-cost-machine. She's not endearing herself this way. She seems mean. Not sure enough of her strength is coming from within but more from without these days and that does not add up to being a commander-in-chief. And who really wants the fighting that swirls around the Clinton's back in the White House?
ChrisM70 @ 18:
and WAY before the 3rd ring... much less SIX!
In the end it probably does not really matter which Dem wins. I seem to be getting pretty tired of Clinton though. With her pro McCrazy comment and the little barb in the way of not absolutely saying that Obama is not a Muslim (not that there is anything wrong with being a Muslim) and her trip with the generals or whatever that was all a bout yesterday and her thing about Obama and NFTA, the more I hear her voice that more it is getting to me. Same with Bill Clinton. It is a cut throat business and it is getting tiring.
Clinton/Obama
Michael M. @ 23:
Obama/Webb
Concerned"Hussein"Canuck @ 15:
Yep, I can imagine the commercial now for McCain. He'll just run together all the clips of Clinton saying very nice things and putting over his experience and service. They'll show some of her comments through the years about how much she admires him and how much of a friend he is. Just thread through a voiceover that talks about how much Clinton has reinforced McCain's credentials and imply that even she would endorse him.
Then again pushing national security experience as much as she's been doing is going to backfire when compared to McCain's experience in that area. She can't claim experience against Obama (over judgement) and then try to claim judgement over McCain (since experience won't work). It's a bad direction and she needs to focus on the economy, which he's generally clueless about.
Nothing that can happen between the Dems can erase the hypocrisy, incompetence, malfeasance, treason, and financial criminality of the Republicans.
See?
That right there is the freaking problem. The voters can't make up their damn minds. He can't close the deal. She's fed up from losing so much, she lingers arounds and throws the "kitchen sink". When Barrack tries to bring up anything about Hillary, she resorts to playing the poor victim while at the same throwing mud. He's different. He's won and yet she lingers. Ok, great, you like them both. Fine, turn on the TV, read the papers and blogs. Do you see it? Do you smell it? It's the smell of dirty campaigning, negativity and resentment that is permeating throughout entire party the longer this drags on.
This should have been over long ago. It actually is over since she will not overcome his elected delegate lead.
So, here's a thought to the good Democrats of Wyoming, Mississippi, and Pennsylvania...
MAKE UP YOUR F'ING MINDS AND END THIS.
See the light! This has gone on too long. The resentment between the campaigns and supporters is at a point that the premise of the original post quoted is reaching its shelf life. Both candidates hate each other. He's not going to be her VP. She's not going to be his VP. Stop the either/or crap. He's rightfully earned his delegate lead. She can't overcome it. She's thrown him over the proverbial bus using Republican tactics. IT'S OVER, NOW VOTE AND FINISH IT!
The caption under that photo should read...
Dumb & Dumber
L.A. Confidential @ 9:
Funny thing. These Obamaniacs expect Hillary suppororters to vote for him if he becomes the nominee, but won't vote for her if she wins it. Obama won't survive once the repugs set their sites on him.
Hail to president McBush lite.
Rico @ 24:
Hmm. That's an interesting suggestion. Webb for VeeP. VA Gov. Kaine is a Democrat, so the loss of Webb in the Senate shouldn't matter too much. And, of course, there's Webb's military credentials. I suppose one drawback might be the repeated accusation that Webb doesn't have executive experience either. But hey, there'll be drawbacks for whomever is chosen.
Also the obvious MSM rooting for whichever candidate. Tweety and O’Craphead and I won’t even touch Tucker (in fact I don’t even watch him anymore, even while surfing the channels) and Gibson and Beck (who I never never watch) and insanity Hannity (don’t watch him ever either) and Britney Hume and shit, I guess all of Faux news and even Olbermann. In fact Olbermann is getting pretty annoying with his anti Clinton bias and I even support Obama but Keith is crossing the line. It is just bad journalism and I would thik Kieth would be above it or at least not so obvious. To come down on Tweety and not call out Olbermann is a little hypocritical. Either way the pundits bias’ are getting in the way. It is a funny thing but it seems like Wolfie is one of the least biased along with Jon Stewart. I’m probably wrong there (about Wolfie) but…. Just saying.
Realitysucks @ 27:
Preach on, brother (or sister).
anon @ 29:
Before anyone gets to spell checking, I meant sights.
my apologies to duncan and john, but you are the ones who are deluded....along with the hillary supporters
up until super tuesday 2, while i was adament in my support of obama, the only serious probs i had with hillary were her vote on the war, and the fact that i still see her as the only thing the wingnuts will get out and vote against.
howerver, then came the bs "only mccain and i have experience, obama has a speech from 2002"
no one can recall another candidate, using the opposition candidate to take down an opponent from the same party
this proved to me that hillary cares not for her party, not for the future of the country, but only about hillary and the clinton legacy.
and those words will be used against her if she makes it to the general
so yes, anyone of hillary's supporters, who continues to support her after that horseshit speech, is indeed an idiot
I think Keith Olbermann has been reading the "Mclist" here that Proud2bHumble has started. Keith's entry tonight was McAngerManagement.
Karen @ 30:
Webb seems always on the verge of losing it. Semi nuts I think.
Gary Hart said it best today when writing about the Clinton tactics on HuffPo: "But that does not mean that it must also be rule-or-ruin, me-first-and-only-me, my way or the highway. That is not politics. That is raw, unrestrained ambition for power that cannot accept the will of the voters."
So do the math yourself. Hillary is polarizing. She starts out with all of the Republicans nearly universally against her. And she is well on her way to losing at leat one-half of the Democrats because of her tactics. Who's left?
anon @ 33:
who cares about spell check...you should fact check
polls show that obama supporters will vote for hillary
its hillary supporters, who say they wont vote for obama
I think the other thing Obama has is ORGANIZATION.
His campaign is better at organizing people, rallying people, raising money and getting the message out.
Obama's team has redefined how to run a campaign: From the ground up.
This is what being president is about - putting together a staff and administration that runs smoothly.
Clinton's staff has been characterized as bickering and making major gaffes - not exactly what you want from
the Commander-in-Chief.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 34:
And saying that kind of thing is what will make Obama supporters stay home in November. I mean that is the way I felt when I heard it after the not absolutely denying that Obama was a Muslim. It is starting to add up.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 38:
I support Obama and i think i will have a very difficult time voting for Hillary after the past two weeks.
McCain will be the thug Dukakis.
He's gonna get slaughtered. No amount of swiftboating Obama will make McCain more platable.
Even the thirty percenters aren't looking for Bush III (well, maybe half of them are, but their party has completely splintered and no way the country gets behind their shit this time.)
uncle joe mccarthy @ 38:
Do you follow any blogs or news? Obama supporters consistently spew their hatred of Hillary. Polls are also usually skewed in favor of Obama. His own wife was quoted as having to think if she could support Hillary if Obama lost.
Reasearch. It's a good thing for the mind if you have one.
Alice Hussein @ 13:
Oh Really?
Obama’s biggies:
Goldman Sachs $474,428
Ubs Ag $298,180
JP Morgan Chase & Co $282,387
Lehman Brothers $274,147
National Amusements Inc $265,750
Sidley Austin LLP $251,657
Citigroup Inc $247,436
University of California $239,944
Skadden, Arps et al $228,520
Exelon Corp $226,661
Harvard University $225,891
Jones Day $213,825
Google Inc $192,808
Time Warner $190,091
Morgan Stanley $190,026
Citadel Investment Group $173,950
Kirkland & Ellis $163,126
Latham & Watkins $160,842
WilmerHale LLP $155,788
Jenner & Block $151,447
the obama suppporters who WILL stay home are the kids...
that really saddens me... they have such high hopes and great strength,
but if they see a "monster" like mcHillary get the nod, it will destroy whatever positive notions they had...
must remind them: SUPREME COURT
I agree with Duncan. I happen to support Obama but if Clinton ends up being the nominee then I will back her. We can banter back and forth right now about who we think is the best between the two. That is fine because its all part of the process. When its all said and done though and the nominee is selected all of us will be left with a choice: Are you going to vote Democrat or for John McCain?
The way I see it, the Democrats or some third party could put up a sock puppet as a candidate and if that is all that is going up against McCain I can guarantee you that I will vote for the sock puppet. I don't care who is up there because my ultimate goal is to see both of those clowns in that picture, along with their cronies, disappear.
Captain Hussein Kangaroo @ 31:
Olbermann is the only pundit that I've seen even discuss the Clinton attacks and the rebuttals that rebuke some of those attacks. Every other show just seems to show the attacks but never the rebuttals. He at least seems to be doing his job and not just giving Clinton a free pass like many of the other shows out there.
Lately the media has been doing a poor job of actually investigating the claims and attacks from any of the camps. Neither of the Dem candidates have been vetted much at all, contrary to popular opinion.
Hillary is definitely not leadership material. A real leader would bow out once the numbers indicated it was time. Instead, she adopts a scorched earth policy.
In fact, the only person fit to be President is Al Gore - as is so elegantly and Presidentially demonstrated by his refusal to run.
BTW: Obama should focus on McCain and ignore Hillary, as she is mathematically irrelevant.
hillary a monster??? say it isn't so-- . . . of course there is the remark made concerning a joint ticket-- i just can't help but wonder (even considering that obama is ahead in the delegate count and the more likely to receive the party's nomination) just who, who does hillary picture taking the back seat in the bus?
"But of course we have to decide who is on the top of the ticket. I think the people of Ohio very clearly said that it should be me."
You had to bring up the supreme court didn’t you? And after the California Appellate court ruling about home schooling I swear to God if McCain is elected I’m leaving this country. And I don’t mean for a vacation. I will be gone before his term is up if he is elected.
You guys are fun.
Nuts, yes, but fun.
You know what would cinch the deal with Obama?
He could have a press conference and let everyone know that when he is elected president, he will
RESTORE THE RULE OF LAW to the Oval Office.
No more secret energy meetings.
No more wiretapping.
No more torture.
No more stamping everything "Classified" just because you say so.
No TELECOM IMMUNITY.
If he did these things, he would finish off Hillary and STOMP McCain.
anon @ 43:
Skewed polls? According to whom?
Those are the kinds of claims that need to be supported by facts. Facts aren't just claiming that research has been done, it's citing that research.
DING...we have a winner: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/katsiva/1575675017623099065/?dt=1204966...
All one has to keep in mind is who will make the next two to three Supreme Court nominations: A Republican or a Democrat? Everything else is superfluous.
Marcus Aurelius @ 48:
Oh fuck Gore. He gave it awy without a fight in 2000 just like Kerry did in 2004. Sure he would have been better than Kerry but he gave up. Didn't even fight for his votes. He could have done so much more. He was the president of the Senate. Not a word. Fuck him. He is better doing what he is doing.
We need Howard Dean!!!!
katy @ 44:
Indeed, katy. This is our last chance to save the Supreme Court (and that's assuming a tragedy does not strike Ginsburg or Stevens between now and November).
If the White House remains Republican this year, every right we have earned through jurisprudence will evaporate.
And I don't just mean abortion. We'll lose the Fourteenth Amendment Incorporation doctrine under which only some of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are deemed to be binding on the individual states. That means free speech, freedom of religion, free press, free assembly, free petition, the right against self incrimination, the right to a criminal jury trial, etc, will all go back to the states.
Snowball @ 55:
I wouldn't necessarily call the Iraq War, Global Warming, Unemployment, and Healthcare "superfluous"
L.A. Confidential @ 44:
I've seen this list posted before. I would like to know where it comes from. I don't dispute it but I've been looking for the source.
ChrisM70 @ 58:
They will be if McCain gets to appoint the next Supreme Court nominees.
I'm voting for Obama or Clinton.
Not McCain
Plain and simple.
ChrisM70 @ 58:
Semantics aside, it can easily be argued that the Court marks the most important issue of them all.
CALL PBS PLEASE-IF YOU VALUE MEDIA ACCOUNTABILITY!!
In my life I've never seen a public show with such a specific and intense dislike of Barack, and worse -of Baracks wife Michelle. McLaughlin personally steered the show, repeatedly comparing Michell to the crooked Geraldine Ferraro, and
Rezkos' wife. Speculating on everything thing from what will happen if Obama is called in to testify at the trial, and what will the prosecutor Fitzgerald will do to to him .
This was the most outrageous attack, and completely tasteless and unfair -especially from PBS!
I urge any who believe in a responsible media to condemn the show and withhold any support to PBS -this is their pledge season -until they remove McLaughlin from the air. Just because its; PBS doesn't mean he has a free reign or perks over and above Shuster or Imus.
McLaughlin was very tied to the Clintons, and has all the same Insurance donors she does - his website is one giant Insurance billboard.
I hope
I like Jim Webb ...He scares the Ingraham right wingers
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/30/the-fear-of-webb/
L.A. Confidential @ 61:
If it keeps going like it has been i will be temped to say home and pack my bags.
I'm sure I will vote for Obama or Clinton but man, it's just hellish out there.
"You may disagree with their reasons, but they have them."
Pshaw,
If Hillary were a Republican, this site and others would be on her like white on rice.
She is getting a free ride.
John Amato @ 64:
Well, thats good enough for me. Maybe it will scare them all into heart attacks.
Hey folks. It's been fun. Gotta go.
Captain Hussein Kangaroo @ 65:
Yes it is. I also realized this election would be totally freaking insane if not the most insane on record.
Hear here, John! I can't wait to go McCranky my ownself...I'm thinkin' of startin' some kinda list or somethin'...
Thanks, duuuude ~(;-}
'ere...as a toke 'n my 'preciation - #420, thaaaannks...
You da man!
Hmmm...so John McCain would make a better president than Barak Obama, eh Hillary?
Here's your ticket, Dems:
Clinton/Lieberman
L.A. Confidential @ 61:
I second this completely.
The next POTUS will be putting at least one member into the Supreme Court and I really don't want to see it get tipped fully into the Scalia/Alito camp.
Let me remind you wonderful C&L folk that you should all make a vow to support whoever the Dem. winner is and beat those neo-con bastards and St. John.
I notice that old Bart has made that statement a few times. I'd like to see others do the same.
Remember that the rest of the world does not care that much if its BHO or HRC that wins. Either will be fine. We just want the foul republicans out of there so we can get back to making the world a better place.
Please keep it together and make it a Dem win. It's very important.
I like both Barack and Hillary. Either will make a GREAT president compared to McCain, and will readily repair much of the damage ravaged on us by BushCo. Mostly, I want to WIN in November. But I have to say, the Obama supporters have been taking spin to levels that I've never even seen from the Repugs. I'm amazed to see folks on this blog (and others) and radio & TV commentators that I've agreed 95%+ with the past few years spinning so wildly. Take a deep breath folks!
Proud2bHumble @ 70:
Oh shit Proud2bhumble. I was wondering if you have a list of all the McNames for McInsane.
Arctic Dude @ 73:
For what it's worth, you've got my pledge on record right now.
And I would guess that pretty much every regular, serious poster here has already pledged that in his/her own mind. People might be going in holding their noses, but we are, alas, accustomed to doing so.
When someone tells a blog that they are leaving, like Captain Hussein Kangaroo just did, is everyone else supposed to post a good-bye comment, or is the original commenter assumed to have logged off?
What would Miss Manners do?
Proud2bHumble @ 70:
Let's keep growing that list Proud2bHumble. Maybe we can do a video to a song...A group C&L project and use all the names...hehe
john bourne harbour @ 49:
So, is she saying here that all the states that went for Obama are irrelevant?
Iowa says Obama
S Carolina says Obama
Alabama...
Alaska...
Colorado ...
Connecticut...
Delaware...
Georgia ...
Idaho...
Illinois...
Kansas...
Minnesota...
Missouri....
N Dakota....
Utah....
Louisiana....
Nebraska...
Washington....
Maine....
D.C.....
Maryland....
Virginia....
Hawaii....
Wisconsin...
Vermont say it should be Obama.
I don't get this reasoning. Aren't the eighteen-year-olds dying in Iraq right now because Hillary sent them there? Did McCain vote twice or the same number of times as Hillary?
They are each equally responsible and equally unwilling to stand up for what's right when under pressure. She's been playing a game with soldiers' lives the whole time, figuring she has our votes in her pocket because you just won't be able to stand the Republican. And it looks like it is working on you. Personally, I prefer an opposition candidate and if it takes 4 more years for the Dems to put one up, so be it. At least we'll get real change when it comes.
It's not shrapnel, but something else not right in someone's brain if they think Hillary is going to take care of America's soldiers, as she already proved she will sacrifice them for her career when necessary. Check her site carefully about troop withdrawal. She has positioned herself so she can take a few out and leave a bunch in for as long as she wants while claiming to not be a liar.
We have the list...How many are on there now?
Andrew Sullivan nailed it in today's column - she's "Cheney in a Pants Suit." Hillary will stop at nothing to get the nomination and while Obama's stands on the war (he won't say he will end it) and gay rights (he stops short of denouncing our 2nd class citizenship) leave a bit to be desired, he is the right person to be the next President. On the two topics I have issue with, I understand the nature of the beast - to be elected you must try to appeal to all and alienate none and I believe that when elected, he will be the agent of change that we so desperately need.
Thursday’s contributions to the McAKAlist, in ‘high’ definition:
.
.
and
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.
The February McAKA List – alphabetized for easier reference:
John Amato @ 64:
Webb's the perfect VP candidate for Obama -- now!
Janet Hussein @ 79:
yup, what a monster--
L.A. Confidential @ 44:
a pittance compated to the 1 million individual donors
hillary pissed away most of her war chest, but it was filled to the brim by big pharma and insurance companies
The simple fact is: Which direction the Supreme Court takes will effect every single issue Liberals and Progressives care about for the rest of our lifetimes and beyond. Whether it's the ability of democratically elected government to regulate corporations and trade in the public interest, the environment, civil liberties and rights, war and peace, Presidential power and whatever other issue you can think of, the Supreme Court will have the last word. The decisions that the Supreme Court passes down will last generations, a Presidential term will be four to eight years.
We can't afford to allow that body to be dominated by far right nominees from the criminally sophistic Federalist Society. To do so would transform American jurisprudence and government into a Kafkaesque nightmare that would make the Soviet purge trials look like paragons of judicial temperament.
John Amato @ 78:
Thanks for your continuing indulgence, JA. ;-}
"Don't encourage him." - 2b's mom
Marcus Aurelius @ 77:
If it's a Republican Troll you say don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out, hurry it up now. Otherwise they are just leaving and no need for formalities.
Marcus Aurelius @ 77:
I'm waiting for the good-buy.
Not really. Just tip your hat.
What I really want is the list from Proud2bHumble. But I gotta run. Maybe John can post a list if Proud comes up with one. See you tomorrow or maybe Monday (tip of the non existent hat).
John Amato @ 81:
At least 420 (still catchin up with today's) and that song is a great f*@#$in' idea! LOLOLOL
;-}
Now that checks and balances are in doubt, we simply purge the SCOTUS in the name of National Security (their appointments are "for life", you know). They get to make the choice: Retirement or a dirt nap. Two minutes to decide. A written opinion won't be required. Fuck 'em. They're thugs, too. They should have known better. Goddamned traitor Neocons.
to those who worry about the supremes....you are too late
the leader of the supremes is a right wing idealogue
its done
our rights are almost gone
the corporate takeover is almost complete
so mcbefuddled puts in 2 more idealogues....who cares
maybe if they overturn roe v wade and allow drilling in your pristine backyard, more people will get off their duffs and call for a real revolution
Janet Hussein @ 79:
and as it seems he will win the delegate count.....texas also says obama
uncle joe mccarthy @ 92:
No, you're wrong. The next President will tip the balance irrevocably for decades to come. We're walking a fine line here, let's not blow it.
Hurray! Finally someone's willing to say we (democrats) have two very strong candidates and it's going to go back and forth until ultimately one candidate wins. Either will beat McBush. I, myself, keep waffling between the two - Hillary and Obama - almost daily. I hate all the petty negativity being flung by rabid supporters of both sides. Our goal should be focusing against McBush and his platform. I only know who ever ultimately wins the democratic primary will prevail over McCain. I'll happily vote for either. For the first time that I can remember in my voting lifetime (and I'm 52) I will be voting FOR someone rather than AGAINST someone. Both my children will be voting the same - for someone that doesn't support the war and increased tax cuts for the wealthy.
oh, and let me say this about duncan's identical comment
in 2002 obama made a speech coming out against the war
had he been wrong, had the war and occupation gone well for this administration....his national political career couldve been over
hillary hedged her bets, gave a fiery speech about the threat of sadaam, then said it was the hardest vote she ever had to make, and handed the reigns of war to a fuckin psychopath who was lookin to enrich a bunch of his buddies
that one point shows the tremendous differences between the candidates
Jackie @ 96:
That is a nice change of pace. The ability to vote for someone instead of going against someone else.
Snowball @ 95:
how?
the court is alread 5-4 for the nutjobs
alito aint going anywhere
the mute negro aint going anywhere
roberts is there until my grandkids will be grey
its too late....it was the second term of bush that made the difference
and in anycase, i dont give a shit anymore
i will not hold my nose just to make sure that the court remains semi normal
i will not pull the lever for hillary the traitor
Roark77 Hussein @ 53:
New Hampshire pretty much proved that. Zogby is pretty much a whore that will blow whichever way pays him. Other polls follow. Cite otherwise.
Thanks John for keeping it real here at C&L. A safe harbour in the shit storm that is the intertubes these days. Folks, John is right. Please save the vitriol for the right wing. Either Hilliary or Obama will be head and tails above McCain...and keep in mind...if we keep sniping each other....we'll have CINDY(I dot my i's with hearts) McCain as first lady. Then I swear to God, I'll hunt down each and everyone of you knuckleheads who perpetuated this fiasco and pound you into goo. Or better yet, hog tie you, and force you to listen to "As The Eagle Soars" while watching Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly having carnal relations.
Good for you Jackie, I wasn't a supporter of either Democratic candidate and still have my reservations about both. However, I think that either will be a candidate that will be transformative for the country as a whole, even though neither are my ideal. As I stated above, there are far more important considerations for Liberals and Progressives at stake in 2008 than if one's favorite candidate gets the Democratic nomination.
Captain Hussein Kangaroo @ 75:
I suspect there are many facets to your wondermeant... lol ;}
Duncan Black is on record saying that the nastiness of this campaign makes him cry.
Obama supporters can't understand how Clinton supporters live with the cognitive dissonance of supporting a candidate who race-baits, fans the flames of religious bigotry, and praises the Republican nominee.
such profound cognitive dissonance is typically only seen in right-wingers.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 99:
I'm not sure you realize just how nutjob it can get!
Sometimes. It's actually 4 moderate-liberals, 4 crazy nutjobs and 1 conservative who at least respects human rights, gay people and abortion rights.
You might be changing your tune if the Constitution is deemed binding only on the federal government, and each respective state has plenary, carte blanche powers to do whatever it wants, including establish religions, turn you over to the federal executive as a traitor after an unfair, but technically legal trial (under its respective constitution, not the U.S. Constitution, which won't apply), outlaw newspapers, etc.
anon @ 100:
New Hampshire proved that polls can be wrong. Wrong isn't the same as skewed. Your implication seemed to be that there was some kind of rigging the polls, that you then reinforced with "whichever way pays him." That's a fairly substantial claim. I was just wondering if that was just your opinion, which is seems to be.
Syd B @ 104:
What part of "PLAY NICE" or take it somewhere else do you not get? I like both Obama and Hillary and will vote for either in November. Jeez dude. NO DEM ON DEM VIOLENCE anymore or we will have McCain as prez.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 86:
Thanks to L.A. HUSSEIN Confidential (great film)
and uncle joe HUSSEIN mccarthy
if you take my drift.
Marcus Aurelius @ 32:
See this is the problem. Only us crazy people on the Internet see a difference between HRC and BHO. To the average person who doesn't pay attention, to the normal person who doesn't lurk on message boards, they're ok with either...
Albatross @ 11:
God damn that was beautiful. I voted for Obama, but I promise to vote for ANY DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE who wins the nomination and who opposes Grandpappy McSame!
Rico @ 16:
Oh come on, did you just hop off a turnip truck? You think Obama is so pure? Politicians suck. They spin, they whine they sling the BS. All of them.
Now, whatever Hillary said, if she wins the nomination and you don't vote for her then McSame wins. Congratulations. Real genius there. Cut off your head to spite your face...
A Democrat is a Democrat... I don't get the big split on Hillary/Obama supporters at all. So help us all though if John McCain gets elected, because a Republican is a Republican.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 38:
So that's why it's the polls that show Obama beating McCain by a large margin and Hillary coming in close to even against him? Now I get it.
See, I tend to look at it from another perspective. If Obama's supporters are more willing to vote for Hillary if she's the nominee, it's because they happen to care more about the good of the country than about their personal ideology. The opposite of that would be what happens when enough people base their vote on a preferred sex, or trying to bring back the past, and beyond that they just don't care. If Hillary supporters aren't willing to vote for Obama, it's they who have the problems.
NickC @ 80:
What on earth is wrong with you? Aren't you paying attention? Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court Supreme Court
Supreme
Court
Yes, Hillary will NOT nominate right-wing, neocon justices.
McSame will.
We cannot afford 4 more years of a Republican in the WH.
If you cannot understand that you are not worth talking to. Get your head out of the hole its in and start thinking strategically - the Supreme Court controls everything you care about, so vote with your head not your heart.
Taking a look on the bright side this primary season...
Clinton Again Raises Possibility That She May Run With Obama on Democratic Presidential Ticket
I have been (in my head) a supporter of BHO and HRC at one time or another thought the primary season. I really do not know who I will vote for here in PA in April. But I can see myself voting for either at this point. And even if BHO was a Muslim clone of Ken Star and HRC was in fact a monster I would still vote for any Democrat over McCain in the fall.
Imagine the worst McCain could do, imagine 4 to 8 more years of this, the wars, the debt, your liberties (gone) and ask your self if it would really be as bad with that "other democrat" who you did not support.
Dave Hussein @ 115:
What he doesn't ask her to run with him? Is she just going to cry? "Shame on you, Barack Obama" him? Or have Bill take care of it?
Herewith the Final Chapter of the Book of Morons
An account written by the hand of Moron upon shiny foils taken from packages of Lucky Strike.
And it came to pass that they did gather on the plains of Seenell all the people who knew not what else to do there not being much on the tube. And he beheld the people who were for the slightly Vague One and also all the people who were for the somewhat Shrill one and saw that they were girded for battle. And it came to pass that they marched forth to battle though they knew not why. And they were pissed. All that day they strove on on the Fields of Armagideon Time did they Clash even unto the Time of the LNMC. And it came to pass that when night fell they retired unto their mother's basements to bind their wounds.
And it came to pass, on the morrow they did strive again for the Hill of Momemtum lest all be lost. And the Clintonites cried "It's ours" and the Obamalons answered "Sez You". And it was not nuanced. Great gouts of flaming slander did they heap upon the heads of their opponents. And massive boulders of Sarcasm. And many were Powned.
And so they strove for day upon day to no point that anyone could see until,at last their skins became too thin and so they perished.
And it came to pass that McFortinbras wandered by in his walker and he did poke the corpses upon the field of battle. And thus he spake:" I guess that makes me King. Thank you.Thank you very much." And he did wander off in search of friends.
I have to say it again, the press is still in Aluminum Tube Idiocy. Most major headlines at Memeorandum all day are about Susan Power, or John McCain getting mad at Elizabeth Bumiller. At least Obama got in his 'why does she think I wouldn't answer a ringing phone' dig in.
There will be no joint tickets, so Hillary can stop insulting everyone's intelligence. There will only be a split and destroyed party if she gets her way. Hey waaiiit....Burston Marsteller also reps McCain. Perhaps Bill has related deal involving perhaps Canada and even more influence peddling!
Archivists Block Release of Clinton Papers
http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4407898
Taxing questions for Clinton
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/taxing_questions_for...
"The Clintons stopped disclosing their tax returns after they left the White House in 2000, and their incomes began to soar, with book deals and lecture fees. Hillary did not release her returns during her Senate re-election campaign in 2006. Instead, she pointed to the annual financial disclosure forms that she files as a U.S. senator "
Personal Financial Disclosure for Barack Obama (D-Ill)
http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/candlook.php?txtName=obama
Nobel winner: Hillary Clinton's "silly" Irish peace claims
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols1...
Clinton Revises Remark on Women in Miss.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1720640,00.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/obama725/petition.html
Hillary's a victim when she is forced to come clean and hasn't had enough time to change the rules of the game.
Read C's and L's pretty much on daily basis although do not drop comments here much.
However with the UnCivil War now forming up between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton over who is "winning" and who gets to be the VP or simple loser it is plain to see facts and truths are the first casualties.
I guess most Americans understand that abiding by the rules is central to how we conduct most sports whether it be football,basketball or baseball. Clearly the rules are there and in place at the start of each season to which all teams are subject and indeed scored on. This is so rudimentary an understanding. Based on what games are won,lost or tied the teams progress towards final playoffs,final eliminations and finally only one team indeed wins. Those are the rules.
Such as this seasons NFL final outcome. Only two teams could go to the Super Bowl because the rules and format eliminated all others. Those that lost could not invoke new rules or revise any one rule or several rules to change this outcome. Of the two teams that did finally make it to the SuperBowl only one team could win. Based on the rules as they were at the start of the season. If one team or the other decided to protest that outcome because it felt it should not lose because the rules had not worked in favor of it winning that team would be in serious jeopardy of some severe blowback.
Somehow this seems to be where Hillary Clinton wants to go. The rules were fully understood and known going into this primary season. Yet Hillary and her backers now seek to change the rules--why?--to alter the agreed upon scoring system to form differently based scores that will directly benefit Hillary Clinton. Not Barack Obama. Not John Edwards. Not Chris Dodd. Not Joe Biden. Not Mike Gravel. Not Bill Richardson.
Hillary wants to change the rules because she seeks to turn the outcome of Barack Obama winning into a outcome where Hillary Clinton wins instead. By changing the rules. By voiding or denying what Hillary Clinton now does not like or seeks to ignore under the ageed upon rules going in. Hillary Clinton wants to change the scoring system until she gets to win no matter where that quest leads the Democratic Party. This is very wrong.
It is this open abuse of standing rules and guidelines and this blatant willingness to seek advantage by rule change that spells out in clear ways that Hillary Clinton is not playing fair or will accept a fair outcome.
This is so clear and yet Hillary Clinton and her backers are readily seeking to muddy up things up and create lots of fog to confuse and distract from what is a simple,blatant attempt to discredit Barack Obama for winning by the known rules which are fully based on who gets the most delegates. Barack Obama is winning that count. Hillary Clinton now seeks to change the rules so she can steer around that outcome.
This is clearly about Hillary Clinton seeking to attain a favorable outcome by any and all means.
Hillary Clinton surely seems more interested in her personal victory than a victory for the Democratic Party next November.
If indeed Hillary Clinton has any capacity to feel ashamed she now should indeed be ashamed.
If Hillary Clinton thinks this display of her character flaws does not disqualify her from being in the WH then she surely is deluded in very tragic and sad ways considering the current Oval Office occupants sad record over the past seven plus years.
So Hillary--would it be to much to ask for you to be more humble and noble in conduct?
If it is then you surely are not deserving of being in the WH Oval Office and you should not succeed no matter how you may seek in ever getting into the WH Oval Office as President of the United States.
It's pretty obvious at this point that the ticket will be Obama/Clinton.
The only wildcard in that is if FL and OH can get their delegates in at the time of the convention (and the distant possibility of super delegates overriding the popular vote).
A key value HRC brings to the ticket which few others do is that the Clintons actually know where the silverware used to be in the Executive branch. Her experiences, even just as FL, could be very useful in restoring things back to their previous settings (to the degree possible).
Samantha Power is a strong asset in Obama's camp, and the shock and horror of her calling HRC a monster is truly a crackup, given the area of her expertise, which is the resolution of genocide and resolving intractable human rights crises, through diplomacy and the norms of international law. Her study of Sergio De Mello's thought on the subject is I'm sure another example of why Obama is her occasional student, and she his advisor.
Speaking of "Bush's grandfather" - whatever happened to that Cheney fellow? Is he still VP? Haven't seen his ugly mug in about 6 months.
There is an impeachment bill pending against Cheney, and telecom immunity might unleash enough anger to force it to the floor.
It's only March. It's early in the year --
--a year I hope is JUST ROTTEN for FourthBranch and his little dweeb swinging dick co-conspirator.
Everybody Out to march and protest on Sat March 15 (and Wed March 19, the actual starting date of the biggest disaster in American foreign policy history). The world can't wait.
To Mr. John Amato and the Great C&L Staff:
Thank you for being impartial and reminding all of us Democrats the true goal. I've been very disappointed at other important "A-List" bloggers that claim to want to unite Democrats and all they've done is fuel the fire by hating on either candidate. THANK YOU for allowing both sides their time here.
Not saying that we all have to agree, but the shouting and uncivility needs to stop. We have a Republican to beat this November and it's not going to happen if we continue this way.
The Republicans, despite their intense hate for John McCain, got together and have pulled in their feelings and support their candidate, so can we. Who will it be? We don't know yet - so let's celebrate our Democracy and let the voting continue without the childish namecalling on both sides.
I was struck by the characterization of Senator McCain as "McCranky". It reminded me of a video I saw years ago of McCain visiting Viet Nam to meet his captors many years after he was released as a POW. He is seen standing next to a Vietnamese official for a photo op, and what I saw made my skin crawl. McCain is patting the Vietnamese official on the back so hard, it just about knocks him over, while he grins through what looks like a severe grimace. It seems to me Senator McCain is carrying a hell of a lot of unresolved emotional pain around from his captivity. I deeply appreciate his service to our country, but I fear his perspective is hugely affected by his horrible experience in a way that would NOT serve America. It's so easy for him to say things like:
1. We'll be in Iraq for 100 years.
2. There will be more wars.
3. Bomb bomb bomb, bomb Iran.
I think Senator McCain has remained at war since Viet Nam.
just my 2c.
Here is what John "more of the Same" McCain really does tor the workers in the United States........
John McCain helped Europeans win contract over US Boeing and put his role in destroying Boeing in his ads.
WASHINGTON - Angry Boeing supporters are vowing revenge against Republican presidential candidate John McCain over Chicago-based Boeing's loss of a $35 billion Air Force tanker contract to the parent company of European plane maker Airbus.
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-mccain-air-force-tanker...
Rico @ 24:
Obama/Dodd '08.
This was a very nice and reasonable post by John Amato but if he has read these responses so far he knows that it was an exercise in futility. The Hillary Hatred has taken on a life of it's own and it is very strong. Irrational but strong.
At this point I am so disappointed that Al Gore did not step back in. He could have just walked to the nomination and sent McCrazy and every damn republican into the abyss for all time. Preferably with John Edwards at his side.
I'm not crazy about Hillary but I think Obama is a neophyte who is not the right person for this time. There is something kinda sleazy about his campaign that no one dares to see. He has been given a free ride. Say what you will about Hillary, she is tough and she is taking it from all sides now and she's still standing. Maybe what we need right now is someone who knows all the specifics of issues and is a scrapper. I believe that with the power of the presidency Hillary will push and win a more progressive agenda. OK - Flame away Obama supporters.
Get used to it ,politics is not just a spectator sport any longer that only a few insiders are allowed to play.
The Internet/Blogs have allowed "WE" the People to have a voice in the process to defend false accusations against our candidate and or beliefs.
Oh BTW Hillary is a Monster for willing to split the Democratic party as the Republicans split America through divisive means for her own personal ambitions and in the process ruin the Clintons legacy amongst African Americans who once revered the Clintons as on of their own.
Ironic they could be the ones that cause African Americans to abandon the Democratic Party.
fastfeat @ 128:
No we need Dodd and Webb in the Senate.
Edwards is my choice for V.P.
Bluesage @ 129:
My exact sentiment. THe Bush crime family has done so much damage, we cannot take a chance with amateurs. Hillary has back up Bill. I know he wasn't perfect but he is smart, experienced and popular around the world. He can go and undo some damage with our foreign allies and she can concentrate on domestic issues. We have to start thinking of what's best for the country. Our economy has tanked and I would rather have the Clintons, with all their faults, at the wheel. Also, those who are criticisizing Hillary for praising McCain, I did not like it but where was the outrage when Obama complimented Reagan and Repub party of ideas? They are both dirty politicians but my gut says to go with the Clintons.
I am now convinced that the Clintons are responsible for everything in this world. If you are a Republican and don't like something or are opposed to it, the Clintons are responsible. If you are a so called progressive (whatever that means), and you don't like something, the Clintons are responsible for it. If Obama says something that is offensive to someone, the Clintons are responsible. There is nothing that Bill or Hillary Clinton can do that will please the far left wing nutcakes running the democrat party. I'm sure it was the Clintons who decided how the primaries were gong to be run and held a gun to Howard Dean's head and made the DNC create the calendar for this season. The Democrat party, particularly the liberal bloggers are totally off the wall. I haven't come to this site for so long I forgot it was once a favorite. I see nothing has changed although I do agree that at least John Amato was making an attempt at fairness but his readers haven't gotten the memo yet.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 38:
ChrisM70 @ 39:
Powers??
Pat Buchanan and the rest of the Republicans seem to be gleeful, gushing, and glowing over Hillary's recent victories. Democrats should be very worried because for each day between now and the Pennsylvania primary, I count probably one electoral vote lost for Democrats in the general election. They are playing us like fiddles.
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