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IMPEACH
CHENEY
FIRST!

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My level 33 Lawful Evil Anti-Paladin weeps for Gary Gygax. Hopefully he isn't turned into a Lich.

Where is Faux News going to put all these losers? Will there be a Faux News II, Return of the Knuckle Draggers?

Max-Hussein-1 @ 2:

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3,975 US Service men dead because of Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, et al and their LIES!

I support the troops...
To refuse illegal orders!

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Max

Extremely well said. People such as Lt. Ehren Watada and the members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] are the true heroes of this country for refusing to participate in the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq.

Soldiers-resist- by saying NO to the war machine of the United States.

Since we KNOW that soldiers in Afghanistan have died DIRECTLY BECAUSE their equipment or back-up were sent to Iraq, it is no longer possible to pretend that the number of U.S. soldiers killed by the Iraq invasion is separable from that other disastrous invasion for airbases.

3975 PLUS 485 = 4460.

Next major protest is on Sat March 15, and the anniversary of the illegal invasion of Iraq is Wed March 19 (events planned on that day as well). Find a local protest and attend!

Thousands of Afghan students chanted "Long live al Qaeda," during a protest aimed at Denmark and the Netherlands.

The demonstrators burned flags from each country and also shouted "Death to America."

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname...

SEE!! We are winning in Iraq. We only threw away three more American lives for nothing.

Keep going. Soon we'll get it down to a mere two or three deaths each week (for nothing). Keep up the good work.

I'm sort of wondering how many Iraqi's died this past week as a result of our occupation? And while you're at it, how many wounded American and Iraqi's would also be worth noting.

Damn good thing this isn't happening in OUR backyard, eh?

Video link doesn't work. When it finished downloading, all I got was the stupid "ready" message. Please fix video!

Several important people died this week: Jeff Healey, 41, blind guitarist (one of the BEST!). Giuseppe di Stefano, 87, Italian Operatic Tenor. Annemarie Rengel, 88, First female President of the Bundestag. Lauren Burk, 18, murdered Auburn U. student. Eve Carson, 22, murdered UNC student. John C. Mackie, US House of Representative from Michigan (one term). Francis Pym, Foreign Minister for UK. Leon Greeman, 97, Only British Holocaust survivor of Auschwitz.

[All 4 links worked for me-Sitemonitor]

Erroll @ 14 "Either way, despite your bizarre contention, anyone in the military who speaks out against the occupation is someone who is to be admired for the courageous stance that they have taken.

"People such as...members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] are the true heroes of this country for refusing to participate in the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq."

NONE of the Iraq Vets who form the core of that group REFUSED to participate in the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq.

Lt. Watada did. Some members of IVAW may well have. The issue is not opposing the war, it's participation in it.

For the record, I own Sir No Sir, and have been an anti-war protester for forty years. The merit in opposing the genocide in Iraq once stateside is different from the suggestion that while deployed they did ANYTHING to oppose their orders (which would be shameful, to many). Your interpretation of my point was mistaken, but perhaps I was too vague.

Paul in LA @ 17:

Erroll @ 14 "Either way, despite your bizarre contention, anyone in the military who speaks out against the occupation is someone who is to be admired for the courageous stance that they have taken.

"People such as...members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] are the true heroes of this country for refusing to participate in the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq."

NONE of the Iraq Vets who form the core of that group REFUSED to participate in the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq.

Lt. Watada did. Some members of IVAW may well have. The issue is not opposing the war, it's participation in it.

For the record, I own Sir No Sir, and have been an anti-war protester for forty years. The merit in opposing the genocide in Iraq once stateside is different from the suggestion that while deployed they did ANYTHING to oppose their orders (which would be shameful, to many). Your interpretation of my point was mistaken, but perhaps I was too vague.

Not only was your point vague but it still remains vague. If you are claiming that those who are in the military while being in Iraq should simply blindly follow the orders that they are given strikes me as being incredibly obtuse, especially for someone who claims to possess the documentary Sir! No Sir! [ which is the correct title, as opposed to Sir No Sir]. As I suggested to you, if you were to actually read Mission Rejected, you would have read about Camilo Mejia, who stated that he had wished that he had disobeyed [ as I had wished, when I was in that place called Vietnam] every order that he was given when he was in Iraq.

You seem to draw some moral equivalence between those who are in the IVAW and Lt. Ehren Watada, and are saying, unless I am mistaken, that those in the IVAW are to be viewed in a better light than Watada because, even though they have now come out against the occupation, their reasons are somehow better than Watada's because they had been in a combat zone. According to your convoluted reasoning, it would then seem that those in the IVAW should then look at Watada with loathing and contempt because, in your view, he would be looked upon with shame and that would seemingly, if I am interpreting your statement correctly, include the members of the IVAW.

I strongly suspect that you were not in attendance when Watada gave his speech at the Veterans for Peace convention during the summer of 2006 in Seattle. If you were, that would have put to rest the lie that you are trying to peddle here tonight. If the members of the IVAW seemingly, according to you, are so hateful of Watada, then one wonders why over 50 of their members stood in solidarity on that stage just before Watada began to speak at that banquet speech in Seattle. The claim that you made, that other members of both the military and the IVAW would be betrayed by what Watada said, is both false and absurd.

If supposedly you did see Sir! No Sir!, then you seem to have forgotten the words of former Green Beret Donald Duncan, who said "I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right." Or the words of Dave Klein, who said "Your silence [referring to the soldiers] is keeping that lie going." Again, according to your bizarre logic, Duncan and Klein would somehow despise those who would disobey orders that he was given, either in Vietnam or in the United States. That, of course, makes absolutely no sense since Duncan and Klein, like the members of the IVAW today, would certainly stand in solidarity with those in the military who would say NO to the orders that they were given, regardless of whether they had seen combat or not. As a matter of fact, Dave Klein happened to have his arm around Watada's shoulder at the VFP convention, since Dave Klein just happened to be the president of the Veterans for Peace when that convention took place when Watada gave his speech. The members of the VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against the War, of which I am a member] certainly felt the same way then as the members of the IVAW feel today, which is that they fervently hope and desire, despite your illogical contention, that those in the military would follow Watada's advice back in 2006, when he advised myself and other veterans that

"I speak with you about a radical idea. It is one born from the very concept of the American soldier [or service member]. It became instrumental in ending the Vietnam War-but it has been long since forgotten. The idea is this:that to stop an illegal and unjust war, the soldiers can choose to stop fighting it."

Watada went on to remind us that "The American soldier must rise above the socialization that tells them authority should always be obeyed without question. Rank should be respected but never blindly followed."

I am sure that you will be shocked to discover that not one veteran, even those from the IVAW, booed Watada off the stage when he gave his speech. On the contrary, the lieutenant received at least a half dozen standing ovations from the veterans in the audience [ which again, despite what you seem to think, also included members of the IVAW] when he was giving his speech because they were and are in complete solidarity with what he had said. They certainly recognized the veracity of his statement when he said, among other things, that " 'I was only following orders' is never an excuse."

Soldiers-resist-by saying NO to the war machine of the United States.

I can't thank George S. and the This Week team enough for always remembering the brave men and women who have sacrificed all in this un-necessary and ill conceived war in Iraq. It's probably the only area in the main stream media that remembers and honors them. And that's a shame.

Looks like they all failed their saving throws!

My cleric raises his mace in salute to Gary Gygax!

Paul in LA @ 24:

Erroll @ 22:

<Therefore, I have absolutely no idea just what the hell you are complaining about.

After you jumped to every assumption about what I was saying.

I object to the term 'resister,' applied at random. Resisting illegal orders is not resisting 'war.' Some may resist "the U.S. war machine," as you suggest, but others are just resisting the illegal application of the U.S. military.

I will try this one last time. When you try to draw some type of moral distinction when you claim that "Resisting illegal orders is not resisting "war' ", you end up, as I pointed out at comment #22, like Bill Clinton attempting to parse the word is. When you engage in semantics such as your jejune statement that "... others are 'just' resisting the illegal application of the U.S. military", you defame the courageous stand that Watada [who risked six years in prison], Camilo Mejia [who served nine months in prison], and Kevin Benderman [who did at least one year], for refusing to deploy to Iraq.

For someone who claims to be a liberal and an anti-war protester, your thinking comes across as if they should have been uttered by a rigid conservative. You may want to also rent or buy the powerful documentary Soldiers of Conscience, which focused on people like Mejia and Benderman, who went to jail for their beliefs. Perhaps, just perhaps, it might actually help to broaden your horizons. But I strongly suspect that that occurrence will never happen.