Obama takes on McCain over taxes
It’s been a long while since one of the Democratic presidential candidates when after the Republican presidential candidate, so this was a very welcome development.
Democratic Sen. Barack Obama said Thursday that Sen. John McCain reversed his position on President Bush’s deep tax cuts in order to win the Republican presidential nomination, one of his sharpest criticisms yet of the Arizona senator he hopes to face this fall.
Criticizing GOP efforts to extend major tax cuts from Bush’s first term and to eliminate the estate tax, Obama said: “These are all steps that John McCain rightly said were irresponsible when they first came up.”
“He made a decision to reverse himself on that,” Obama told reporters as he flew from Chicago to Washington for a series of Senate votes on budget issues.
“That was how, I guess, you got your ticket punched to be the Republican nominee,” he said of McCain. “But he was right then, and he’s wrong now.”
McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said in a statement that if Obama is nominated, “the American people will have a clear choice: John McCain will cut taxes while Senator Obama will raise them, hurting our economy and costing jobs for hardworking Americans.” Of course that’s what McCain’s spokesman said. We probably could have written the quote before it was uttered.
The point is, Obama didn’t go after Hillary Clinton; in the midst of a heated Democratic primary, he went after John McCain.
Can we have more of this please? Say, every day for the foreseeable future?
I’m increasingly of the opinion that this prolonged Democratic primary process is going to seriously undermine the party’s chances of winning in November, but I’ll concede that there are some clear advantages — most notably, we can watch two Democratic heavyweights go after the Republican candidate at the same time, while the GOP has two moving targets.
This benefit disappears, of course, when the Dems go after each other, which is all the more reason for them to target McCain. It might even help them make the case to superdelegates: “Look at how effectively I’m going after John McCain now. If you’d like to see more of this in the fall, I’m your candidate.”
Frankly, I’m almost indifferent to which issue(s) Dems pick to go after McCain — I’m more interested that they go after McCain — but taxes is as good as any. The Arizona senator is clearly vulnerable on the issue — he’s flip-flopped, he’s offering tax cuts that his campaign admits he can’t pay for, he’s embracing the policies of a wildly unpopular president, and he’s advocating more irresponsible cuts that most Americans realize won’t help them anyway. Indeed, gone are the days that a Republican can just shout “tax and spend!” and hope voters will recoil. Americans have heard all the tax-cut rhetoric from McCain’s mentor (George W. Bush), and they realize the policies don’t actually help them in any way.
So, Clinton and Obama, by all means, go after McCain on taxes. And foreign policy. And health care. And energy, education, poverty, homeland security, and everything else. Just don’t destroy each other.
In one of my favorite movies, “Office Space,” Bill Lumbergh puts up a soul-crushing banner in the workplace that reads, “Is this good for the company?” and encourages every employee to ponder this question with “every decision you make.” I’d like the Clinton and Obama campaigns to consider a similar banner for their headquarters: “Is this going to help Democrats win in 2008?” If you’re repeating Republican talking points, you’re not helping. If you’re praising Republican candidates, you’re not helping. If you’re intentionally dividing the Democratic electorate with ugly attacks based on race or gender, you’re really not helping.
If you’re challenging John McCain on an important policy matter, you’re helping.
Hillary who? Interesting new 'ignore Hillary' strategy.
...Most notably, we can watch two Democratic heavyweights go after the Republican candidate at the same time, while the GOP has two moving targets.
Yes! The Obama and Clinton campaigns should discuss this, if they haven't already, spending at least some time doing precisely this. It's not as if McCain can win almost any policy debate on the merits. Despite the MSM's widespread boredom and hatred over policy discussions, they'd even have to cover at least the sound bite version of the critique to go with their "Clinton and Obama attack McCain on Health Care" headline.
It’s been a long while since one of the Democratic presidential candidates when after the Republican presidential candidate
Now, this is the way it should be. Obama attacking McSame, and Hillary attacking McSame.
The best way to get more of this is to get Shillary out of the race. Then we can focus on winning the Presidency instead of the primary.
Hey Hillary supporters...that thing just beyond the end of your nose is the welfare of the country. Try focusing on that instead of getting the nomination for a candidate who can't win the GE.
And here we have Jay, somebody who clearly didn't read the post.
sure glad its sunday so that the obnoxious hbo ads will be gone...lets hear it folks.
Jay @ 5:
And why are some of voting for Hillary just because she's a woman? I wanted Edwards and now I choose Obama. I'm not black and I resapect women.
Obama is just acting the like the front runner that he is...
yeah Misty because i clearly attacked Hillary's race and gender by saying she shouldn't still be here.
Sorry man, the people who love politics have taken over our primary process. The Republicans are going to laugh their way to the WH as the Clintons drag us into oblivion....again.
Just in time for the fifth anniversary of the U.S. invasion, presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain made an unannounced visit to Iraq. Unfortunately for him, this week's anniversary highlights that at almost every turn, John McCain has been disastrously wrong about Iraq.
For the details, see:
"Forever Wrong: Five Years of John McCain on Iraq."
gc @ 7:
Amen. Can't see the movie here anyway.
with all due respect to mr. benen, the source of that article is terrible journalism.
"mr. obama said......" it's not just that mr. obama says that mr. mccain reversed his position on tax cuts. it's a FACT. mr. mccain DID indeed reverse his position on tax cuts.
whoever wrote the original article needs to do some very simple fact checking.
What i've been thinking since Super Tuesday didn't end things: republicans have to hedge their bets on who to attack while anointing McCain with a big target on his forehead. Though it seems now they can safely focus on Obama, even if the Democrats don't wanna say it yet he will be the nominee. As everyone with a longer view of events has been advising him to do, Senator Obama has to bring a much more radical economic stump speech to Pennsylvania, act as if Senator Clinton has already dropped out of the race and attack John McCain with the truth of his positions.
Man in the Mists @ 6:
Well, since everyone who criticizes Obama is a racist then it stands to reason that everyone who criticizes Hillary is a misogynist.
The notion that pouring tax giveaways into the pockets of big corporations and the super rich stimulates the economy is a fallacy. Corporations don't create new jobs just because they are flush with new capital, they create new jobs to meet greater demand for their products. The rich don't necessarily buy more consumer products than the rest of us.
Wealth does not trickle down, it percolates up.
The only way to really stimulate the economy is to use tax revenue from the wealthy and corporations to invest in infrastructure development to employ people in construction and social services who will use that money to spend on goods and services to create demand and stimulate the economy from the bottom up. This is basic Keynesian economics, an historically proven formula to keep a capitalist economy functioning. The Reagan era disrupted that proven method leading to to instability we have today.
Snowball @ 16:
Exactly. We need to junk "trickle down" economics and start using "trickle up" economics...
Yay, Barack! This is where the discussion should be and this is where it should stay. Bravo to you for taking the high road as always.
[Deleted-Sitemonitor]
Swashbuckler @ 15:
Well, the point is to divide and conquer. That's the only way McSame can win.
Swashbuckler@17
Well, at least we can agree on one thing.
Obama is going to raise taxes, what is their to argue about?
CheneyIsADick @ 20:
But in this case it's the Obama-ites dividing us and McCain conquering and that's the last thing this country needs...
Forget the Clinton Obama tit-for-tat, focus on the issues.
Why is McCain hiding his tax returns? Does he have something to hide?
chris @ 22:
Chris, do you make more than 1 million a year> If so, you really ought to move out of your parents basement.
Jay, I think you kinda missed the point of the original post. With TWO candidates, with large numbers of supporters, each with their own resources it would be much MUCH easier to keep McCain under constant attack while McCain will have to divide his resources to deal with BOTH attackers simultaneously.
If Clinton dropped out of the race (regardless of the reason) McCain would be able to focus his resources solely on countering everything Obama can come up with. (Whatever attacks Obama uses against McCain could always be met with the "I thought you were a uniter, who was wanting to reach across the aisle? Why the "hostility?" That argument won't work against Clinton, as she's already painted by both Dems and Repubs as the anti-christ.)
Snowball @ 24:
Kinda hard to forget until there's a nominee...
Swashbuckler @ 23:
Snowball @ 24:
Exactly. Never mind the rest of the primary. McSame is the bad guy.
Jolly Sapper @ 27:
Yeah, but the underdog will not do that because they have to beat the frontrunner...
Jolly Sapper @ 27:
Jolly I can't argue with your logic on that. I wish it had been so three debates ago.
Think back to Iowa and New Hampshire. We had strong candidates and we knew we were going to win the GE. Now largely because of a Clinton strategy of race baiting, pulling the experience card (saying John McCain and her have the vitamins but Obama doesn't) and divisive campaigning in TX. I'd say the odds that a dem will occupy the WH in januay are a little less than even.
bryanci @ 13:
And here we have the base absurdity of our current paradigm. The FACT that the US Government has trained and funded death squads, killed civilians and engaged in state terrorism is a "controversial opinion" that must be "denounced & repudiated", it doesn't jive with truthy buzz we've been riding. Anything said publicly is by definition a matter of opinion or only existing "according to sources i've spoken with". This is now a hearsay nation, (insert outlandish accusation about your most hated political figure here)
there is a disturbing false equivalence. Hillary and her minions have been attacking Obama and somehow he's attacking hillary. Hillary squanders away her 60-40 edge in the black vote through her increasingly racist attacks and somehow Obama has to answer for it.
So finally, someone listens to an Obama speech to see what he's supposed to be about and its,"Obama takes on McCain over taxes".
Thanks so much! It's about time.
As far as the inheritance tax goes, it was instituted as a safeguard to mitigate the deleterious effects of inherited wealth creating a new American aristocracy which is an anathema to a democratic society. It is not double taxation, it is a one time tax on unearned income, much like lottery winnings are taxed. It is the individual who inherits the wealth who did nothing to earn it that is being taxed only once, it is not the money that is being taxed or the deceased relative. It is probably has best been referred to as the "Paris Hilton" tax. To continue to function as a democratic society, we need it to help prevent the further rise of an idle, unproductive elite who already have greater influence in our government than the principle of one person one vote permits.
Swashbuckler @ 23:
you should have a look at your own posts.
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 33:
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 33:
Any dummy with grade 8 math could tell you tax cuts for rich isn't way to deal with a record deficit and trillions of dollars of debt. Mc Cain is a shameless ass kissing, flip flopping, braindead old man. Any suggestion at all that he could win just exposes the national IQ average.He should be referred to as he is. Just GOP cannon fodder with no real chance of winning anything. Except maybe in America ?
Swashbuckler @ 30:
"The underdog has to beat the front runner". Damn, that was brilliant!
Jay @ 31:
If McCain was able to win the GE I would have to thinkthat there has to be something in the water. We would have to be insane to vote him in. Then again, not to say the election couldn't be stolen. Diebold anyone? Charlie Black is a lobbyist for United Laboratories who is trying to buy Diebold. Charlie Black also works for McCains campaign.
The Right Wing has been trying to take out the Clinton's since 1993.
Revenge, deceit, conniving, and "dirty tricks" you name it.
We're shocked Hillary is now on the receiving end of the same?
LOL give me a break
Does this really need to be a Clinton vs. Obama thread? If you don't have the flexibility to switch from the primaries to talk about issues of the general election, you're asking to lose.
Republicans will lower your taxes by ensuring you have less income to start with.
Tax cuts ....I love it. When will you guys finally take away your goverments visa,m/c,discovery,amex........etc. The longer it goes the further you will have to dig yourselves out.
Right now as I see it you're still diging down not up
L.A. Confidential @ 40:
Leave Hillary Clinton alone!
Poor taste, or prescient?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/14/mclaughlin-group-monica-crowley...
Don't forget Tibet.
Boycott Chinese Goods. (Good luck)
"Can we have more of this please? Say, every day for the foreseeable future?"
From Obama we will. From Clinton, unlikely. Her only hope is to tear Obama down as much as possible, than sneak away with the nomination by convincing superdelegates to overturn Obama's substantial lead in delegates.
Clinton is from the school of: "Do whatever it takes, now." She's not looking to the GE yet. She doesn't look that far forward.
It's funny, Clinton actually sounds as if she would prefer McCain to Obama.
The fact is the stakes can't be higher: the future of the most self-absorbed, self-righteous, consumptive society on earth, possibly in history.
Why is the DLC trying to destroy the Democratic Party?
Swashbuckler the closet Republican @ 44:
I'm not worried about Hillary It's The McCain Stupid.
That should be the Dem Rally Cry
It's The McCain Stupid!!!!!
Will someone explain to me how a reasonable, sensible tax policy (e.g., raising taxes to actually PAY for this war) is far more dangerous for our economy than the current system of supply-side/voodoo economics. This progressive tax system of the New Dealers, which more or less lasted until the early 1980s, did just as well, if not better for the average American as voodoo econ. has done. While the 1970s were painful, the early 1990s/2000s were also painful, and now we are looking at a very serious economic crisis. So again, exactly what has supply-side done better for the average American? What has supply-side done better for our overall economic health? I just don't get how the Bushies/McCain-ites can continue to get away with their usual line of b.s.
I think this election cycle is taxing everyone's patience.
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 35:
Really? I'm not calling everyone who disagrees with me a racist...
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 48:
Because their freaking greedy sellouts who don't want to be taxed or inconvenienced.
Awww, he chose to give Hillary a break this.one.time.
Here's a skit they should do on SNL:
"I’d love to see a skit where Obama is watching a Wright sermon that is nothing but love and peace talk. He has to get up to go to the bathroom. As soon as he leaves, Wright launches into one of his tirades. When Obama comes back Wright starts talking nice again. This could go on for 20 years in the skit. Have you noticed Obama is never around when he might have to take a stand?"
Cuz, ya know...Obama didn't realize what kind of stuff was going on in his church for 20 (that's twenty) years. He didn't realize when he was using words such as "bamboozled" in address to african-american voters, it was code from Spike Lee/Malcolm X.
Might wanna look at "Abuse that Race to get that Place"
http://www.stop-obama.org/?p=369
And yea, it's got links to backup assertions. Is that racist?
Brad @ 45:
I think Hillary has bigger boobs.
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 48:
What is the DLC? Did you mean the DNC?
dm @ 50:
Because people aren't PAYING ATTENTION.
Mike the Canuck @ 43:
Any country with a centralised banking system is the same as the US. There are only a few countries left in the world that don't have this type of banking system: Iraq, Syria, North Korea and Cuba among others. Afghanistan and Iraq were in this group of countries. What was it Chimpy called them again? Oh, yeah: The axis of evil. LOL
Barak needs to be careful. The Clinton's have a habit of making people disappear.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Ark_businessman_vanishes_amid_audit...
Clinton Library Builder's CFO Vanishes From Arkansas Amid Audit, Leaving Questions, No Clues
JON GAMBRELL
AP News
Mar 16, 2008 12:57 EST
John Glasgow had a healthy salary, with an opportunity to pick up stock in the construction company where he worked. He was the kind of guy who paid back a $500 bonus he got for completing an anti-smoking program because he started to light up again.
But now Glasgow has been missing since Jan. 28, with his car was found abandoned the next day, and family and police say it's impossible to tell whether he killed himself, was abducted or left to start a new life elsewhere.
His family said the easygoing 45-year-old felt overwhelmed and anxious about a company audit, but the company says no money is missing.
Police say there is no evidence of foul play, and no clues to his whereabouts.
"He may be under some kind of compulsion ... some kind of blackmail, that's a scenario you could dream up," said his brother, Roger Glasgow. "We're not suggesting any of these scenarios because we just don't know. But it does open up a Pandora's box of possibilities."
John Glasgow was the chief financial officer of CDI Contractors LLC of Little Rock, owned by department-store chain Dillard's Inc. and the estate of co-founder Bill Clark. It has built or remodeled many of Dillard's 300-plus department stores and put up some of Arkansas' signature projects, including Bill Clinton's presidential library, and had estimated sales last year of $432.9 million. Dillard's Inc. had 2007 sales of $7.81 billion.
With Clark's death last year, Dillard's has the option to buy his shares, but it has discussed letting CDI employees buy Clark's shares instead. Glasgow was in charge of the redistribution and himself stood to buy a part of the company.
Glasgow's family and colleagues say that multimillion-dollar deal weighed heavily on him.
Weeks before his disappearance, his wife Melinda found him pacing in their kitchen as the end-of-the-year audit period approached. Dillard's had sent "absolutely relentless" auditors to review CDI's books, she said.
Roger Glasgow said John tapped his own phone after perceiving a threat over CDI's depreciation of its assets. Depreciation, a standard accounting practice, figures how business assets, such as equipment, lose value over time.
Recordings from the tapped phone line revealed no further threats, he said.
Dillard's representatives did not return calls from The Associated Press seeking comment. In a joint statement with CDI, Dillard's told the weekly newspaper Arkansas Business nothing was wrong with CDI's accounting.
William Clark, president and CEO of CDI and the son of its founder, said Glasgow suffered from "pressure that was self-induced."
"The people buying in were obviously about ready to take a big financial step and John felt personally responsible to make sure that everything went well with the deal," Clark said.
Roger Glasgow said his brother appeared happy in his marriage.
Glasgow's SUV was found at Petit Jean Mountain, a state park an hour northwest of Little Rock, with its doors unlocked and valuables inside.
Conway County sheriff's investigator Sonny Stover said tracking dogs may have found something " but the dog handlers couldn't tell if the scent came from Glasgow or just from his car.
"It looks like he's just walked off," Stover said.
___
L.A. Confidential @ 57:
Well, given how harsh things are becoming, if people still don't pay attention, then they have only themselves to blame.
Destardi @ 54:
Hmmm... stop-obama.org is registered in Scottsdale, AZ. Either the McCain campaign is getting sloppy or someone's trying to make it look like the McCain campaign's sloppy...
Credit crunch - yet tax cuts leading to more government borrowing, reducing funds that could be borrowed elsewhere? That's how the vicarious tax of inflation gets kicked in. I think the borrowing binge, credit cards, sub prime mortgages and federal borrowing had led to the current financial crisis. I don't see how more borrowing is going to fix it. We need to get out of the nation building business and confine our defense to defense. We need to recognize that the cash drain to Iraq is a fiscal problem, as well as a military one. And, if we want to continue these pursuits, then enact taxes to pay for them and not finance them through borrowing. That's the politician's favorite trick, borrow to finance wars that the public would never support if they had to pay for them.
L.A. Confidential @ 57:
And we know that they have no intention of paying attention. Otherwise we'd know about McShrivelledPieceOfCrap's 'spiritual advisors', who hate Jews, Catholics, pretty much anyone but a plantation owner.
dm @ 50:
Supply-side and Chicago School economics has done nothing to create a sustainable economy. Their premises are wrong and turn the whole concept of the relationship of supply and demand on its head. The implementation of these theories has created a massively unequal distribution of capital favoring the top 1-2% and draining workers and the middle class of extra capital thus depressing demand. It's a sure fire recipe for cycles of recession and depression and social and political upheaval.
ysbaddaden @ 55:
Well, the biggest boobs are in the White House right now!
Also I know the Repugs would never admit this...but our country needs to raise taxes to pay for all the bullshit done in the name of low taxes, which if they were for the middle and lower classes they would have helped, but being for the upper one percent they would never do anything except put a lot of money in the hands of people who have a lot of money.
Langx@59
From this Obama supporter: You're one hair's breath away from shooting pumpkins with Dan Burton.
Swashbuckler @ 62:
Hmmm... hard to say, but stop-obama.org has the same registrar as johnmccain.com...
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 66:
did they make the latest issue of Big'uns?
@59, OH PLEASE
Of course, I'd expect nothing less from someone who supports a Farrakhan/Black Panther/anti-American pastor candidate.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp
How's this for starters?
Too bad we don't have videos showing HIllary and Bill with an ice pick, gouging out someone's eyes, but we DO have video (for sale!) of Barack's minister. D
Snowball @ 65:
Snowball @ 65:
Agreed. I think we now of enough long-term data on the effects of both progressive and supply side on the economy. Anyone paying attention should now realize that supply side does not help the average American.
Destardi @ 71:
Well, the church sells the videos itself...
Destardi @ 54:
They had one similar during the Arms for Hostages controversy. Ray Gun whenever he was in front of the press or little girls selling cookies was all Jimmy Stewart, but as soon as he was alone with his cabinet he was all business, planning attacks, speaking to someone on the phone in some ME language, than someone playing Jimmy Stewart shows up, and it's doddering Ray Gun again.
I regret that I have to scroll through run on posts of sheer idiocy to talk about taxes and the economy.
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 70:
Al would make that "ugh i can't look" face like he did when Peg wanted sex...
It's time to bake the WAFFLES...
chris @ 22:
As if corporate welfare ever got you anything?
Repeal the tax cuts. Bill Clinton has already said he, for one, doesn't need his.
Now, as for McWeathervane's personal tax returns...
Media ignore McCain's finances after obsessing over Dems'
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803140010
ABC repeatedly noted controversial comments by Obama's "allies," but has yet to report comments by McCain endorsers.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803140013?f=h_top
McCain Received Defense Firm Cash After Backing Its Contract
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/11/mccain-received-defense-f_n_909...
Ron @ 26:
If you had an education and a real job you would understand why raising taxes is not good..
chris @ 78:
Trolling on Liberal blogs is not a real job.
And if you had an education and knew anything about basic economics, you'd know Keynesian economics works, your tax cuts for the wealthy don't.
chris @ 78:
Are you saying I have to get out of retirement and go back into the work force? When can I retire for good Chris?
Here's how McCain's spokesman should be answered. "Maybe McCain will cut taxes, he'll follow George Bush's example. Big tax cuts for the millionaires, and billionaires, and maybe throw a few scraps to the middle class, while at the same time borrowing billions from foreigne countries, and putting it on your childrens tab!"
Destardi @ 71:
Destardi, do you EVER take your meds? Just wonderin'.
Ron @ 82:
After you take an economics class...... Explain to me how raising taxes is good?
Swashbuckler @ 81:
Quoting yourself 3 times? Either people have started ignoring the troll leaving Swashbuckler to have a conversation with himself or Swashbuckler is hearing voices in his head and having a conversation with each one of them.
UhOhChongo @ 84:
I swipe them.
Oh wow, look at the colors, the colors!!!
Swashbuckler @ 86:
4-times! Coo-Coo. Coo-Coo.
chris @ 85:
The alternatives are cutting services (everyone claims their own is a sacred cow) or borrowing.
That's why our deficit is so terrible under boosh. Like a kid he puts everything on his card instead of cash on the barrel head.
Swashbuckler hearts Hillary @ 90:
I was wondering where all the bird shit was coming from, now I know...
chris @ 85:
I haven'nt seen anything that either dem candidate has said about raising taxes on the middle and lower income citizen. Now if you are wealthy, it might be a different story. It might be too hard for you to understand that taxes pay for our infrastructer, police, fire fighters. military and a host of other things that YOU use.
Swashbuckler @ 92:
From your posts!
Coo-Coo. Coo-Coo.
Tag team on McSame and forget this childish smearing. Everyone, just stop it. McSame is "the enemy". Hit him with both barrels.
Heard a Clinton supporter yelling that Obama has been attacking Hillary because she is a one. Had to tell this person that Obama has never attacked Hillary as a woman. The press might be attacking her because of her gender. It didn't come from Barack Obama. Barack Obama focuses on the facts not nonsense.
BaScOmBe whose saying "NO REPUGS" @ 64:
So your line of defense is..."republicans do it too, nener nener"
Sorry...bzzzt. Did Hagee baptize McCain's daughters? Did Hagee demonize people with blue eyes, or just with different Gods? Did McCain garner Hagee's support 20 years ago, or 2 years ago? Did McCain ask for Hagee's support after he visiting Khadafi in the 80's, alongside Farrakhan?
Obama has been pushing this racist theme ever since Hillary won New Hampshire, and actually a little bit before when Sen Bill Perkins said:
"This is not Bill Clinton's backyard or his plantation. Underscore, plantation, underscore backyard.
Sorry but that's despicable, and I find it offensive. And yes, I'm a fellow American, a fellow progressive, contributing taxes, a son, an uncle, and I have every right to be offended no matter how much melanine my skin contains.
And no, my ancestors did not own slaves. Get away from this guilt psychology crap. Judge people as individuals, based on their own merits.
Obama associated with these people for a long time, and yes, I absolutely judge people based on the company they keep.
22 chris Says: Obama is going to raise taxes, what is their to argue about?
--->Whether you're a troll or an idiot-- discuss.
Swashbuckler @ 86:
This Jamal is a freakin' bigot and I'm surprised that he has a diary on Daily Kos. Was it a one day event?
Ron @ 93:
Exactly, going to raise taxes on the wealthy, who then have less money to invest in there business, which means the business can not grow and hire more employee's or invest in the technology. Moreover, who do you think pays the major of taxes in this country RICH people! If a guy makes 5 million and gets taxed at 50% for government program A then 3 years from now he's only going to make 2.5 million because he does not have the incentive to make 5 because the government is going to take half. So now the IRS only collects 1.25 million in taxes because he made less but the government program still cost 2.5, where is the other money going to come from?
Slay the tax-cut "monster" from the GOP socio-pathic kook base, and the entire repuke house of bullshit will collapse quickly! This is the holy grail of repuke "smoke and mirrors" that some in the middle class "bought-into" for the last 25 years. They are now seeing that it was nothing but a massive wealth-transfer-scam - from the middle class to the aristocracy.
For a stinking $200 or $300 GOP tax cut, middle class Americans have lost their jobs, their health insurance, their pensions and mortgaged their children's futures so that BILLIONAIRES can pay a 15% tax rate, while they pay a 30% rate on their $40,000 a year.
That doesn't even begin to address the other tax increases the middle class and working poor have to pay in order to feed this sick beast. First, the loss in revenue makes their property taxes go up (the only option left for local governments to continue functioning) while they pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their kids to play in sports, or music, or get enrichment course's at school. It also increases fees on everything else; just so Blackwater and Haliburton can take all those no-bid contract tax dollars (that Chimpy let them steal), and launder them in the Caymen's (don't forget to bring that up too Obama). Shove their tax cut bullshit so far down their throats, that they will gag on it for the next 25 years!
And don't forget to let the folks know that 88% of all Bush's tax cuts went to the richest 8% of Americans. We got a few crumbs, while the repuke aristocracy gets 6 and 7 and 8 figure tax cuts, which they then invest overseas to destroy America even more. Start talking about the bullshit that is the GOP tax scam!! Go Obama, mention it everyday, and you will be my hero!
Know why you haven't had a raise in 30 years middle class America, even though we just had an economic expansion that netted trillions? Thank your tax cut buddies at the GOP!!! They took it all!!!
Put that on T.V. everyday until November!
chris @ 100:
That is such a crock of shit. Based on that theory everyone in America should have a job right now after the last 7 years.
Sell your snake oil on another planet.
Barack Obama is not pushing this "race" thing. The media is obsessed with "race" and "gender" and hasn't said shit about any real issues. The Obama campaign has been arriving in PA since last week and no one talks about race or gender. The focus is on issues. The focus is on uniting this nation. There is so much positive energy at an Obama meeting. Those of you who trash him haven't really been listening to him. You listen to the media and read supermarket rags and then you pretend to know everything. As for the minister of the church, that is complete bs. Has anyone read one of Hucklebee's surmons? Probably not because they aren't easily available. I was raised was Catholic and just because the priest in the church comdemns gays doesn't mean that I fell the same way. Another point... these sermons were from years ago and if you ain't a black man, then shut up because you will never understand what it was and still all about.... racism. When will this country grow up?
Swashbuckler @ 52:
Really?
I can't tell!
Chris... how much do you get paid to talk your bs about taxes? You probably think that the "big payout" by the government, you know the $600.00, is going to stimulate the economy. It will stimulate an economy all right, the economy of China.
Keep the money in your neighborhood, support local businesses and buy local.
52 Swashbuckler Says: BaScOmBe whose saying “NO REPUGS” @ 35:
Swashbuckler @ 23:
you should have a look at your own posts.
Really? I’m not calling everyone who disagrees with me a racist…
---->>Edwin Says: Just some, and that's sooo much better.
chris @ 85:
They fact that you could print this, shows what a clueless loser you are.
I don't need to take an economic's class to see the entire country is fucked-up. The fact that you could ignore all the realities going on today in this country, just because of some theoretical bullshit in a textbook (economics is not a true science either), or based on what some right wing dipshit tells you in a class, leads me to believe that you are one "dim-bulb".
Too bad you can't go back to mid-evil Europe, and live a year or two under the aristocratic government's of France or England. You are so stupid unfortunately, that might be the only type of thing that could "wake" you up.
What you right wing imbeciles never understood, is that the founding father's were NOT against taxation. Most of them believed in the common good (repukes can't comprehend this due to a lack of humanity). What they opposed, was taxation WITHOUT representation!
Swashbuckler @ 52:
True, I believe you prefer "childish" for anyone who punches holes in your arguments.
Cats r Flyfishn @ 99:
No idea. I was just trying to find out who the guy was and I saw that when I googled him...
Edwin Hussein (not a scary black Reverend) @ 106:
Funny then how you remain silent about those who've called me a racist...
Edwin Hussein (not a scary black Reverend) @ 98:
He'll raise some and reduce others. The "Dems will raise your taxes" is just a scare tactic, sadly one that seems to work with some...
If that is correct, how can Obama proves that the only reason he distanced himself from Wright was not to win the democratic nomination?
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 107:
Swashbuckler @ 111:
You still owe Janet an apology for calling her a racist. Your straw man argument that "others" have called you one is not holding up very well.
If you like you can provide the posts, if you are bright enough to reference them.
Can someone do me a huge favor and link me to the post where crooksandliars posted their big endorsement of Obama. I'm an Obama supporter. Thanks.
Site Monitor: C&L is not endorsing any candidate. We are going to support the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 115:
Okay, I'm sorry Janet's a racist.
Happy?
Site Monitor: Need a little time out? You either start being civil to other posters or we'll take away your posting privileges.
chris @ 85:
Well I've had a few economics classes so I'll field this one. Following Chris's to it's logical conclusion the government should eliminate all taxes and produce paradise. The U.S will be able to live forever on money borrowed in the capital markets right up to the moment they realize that there is no way or intention of repaying those borrowed funds.Those dummies will never catch on will they? At this point you'll be able to wheelbarrow your weekly earnings over the border and exchange it for a peso. Irony aside if you don't match taxation inflows to expenditures in a reasonable fashion the dollar won't be worth squat.The important ratio is debt to GDP.
Swashbuckler @ 117:
Site monitor, do you mean like when I was just called "a coward, a liar and a troll."?
Site Monitor: Whining is unbecoming. I've watched you hijack these threads for the last two days with the same attacks on others if they don't agree with you. I'm telling you to stand down. If you can't post civilly (and all these other posters would be civil to you if you weren't attacking them), then go find somewhere else to post. I'm done with you hijacking the thread.
Peter G @ 118:
Chris doesn't understand this. All he understands is the crap spewed from right wing "think" tanks and "journalists" on Pox news.
Hi,
just like to remind all you that we are all democrats.Whoever wins between Obama and Clinton,we need to support them.While i dont like Hillary,i will vote for her if she gets the nomination.Like in the movie mars attacks,Cant we all get along?I am 63 years old and dont care what color a persons skin is or what their sex is.Save you name calling for Mccrazy.I really like Crooks and Liars site!
chris @ 100:
You must have been asleep in that economics class you said you took.
Here's an idea. We could take Mr Benen's very pointed reminder that the bad guy is actually the Republican nominee and resist the urge to endlessly flog illusory mummified ponies. I'll even put my support on the line. Whichever democratic candidate tears McCain the biggest and best new assholes between now and the convention shall have my support.
diamondmc @ 122:
This [deleted]didn't take an economics class. He's just spouting made up talking points.
Like how when businesses grow they make more jobs just for the fun of it. Nevermind the fact that their customers are able to buy less and less.[deleted]
Site Monitor: THE FLAME WAR ENDS NOW
people mcsane was in office when saint ronnie and king george the first were in office and those people put forth the largest tax increase in the history of America against the poor and the middle class. Just think about it they cut taxes for the people that don't work for a living and they taxed social security, they taxed unemployment compensation, the took away the interest deduction we used to have and just pretty much fucked the poor working people and that is what is amater with America today and republicans deserve all the blame!
Attention people bringing up the Wright thing.
Either Clinton's campaign is behind it, and thus she is slinging mud. OR McCain's campaign is behind it, and you are advancing the republican message.
Either way, cut it out. If you have a problem with Clinton or Obama's policies, by all means, discuss. It's stupid to further this meme.
Langx @ 59:
Dude, Could it not be the Republicans doing the disappearing and killing to make it look like the Clintons?
How about Vince Foster? Is it possible that the Repuglicants can and did do him in?
Arkansas is a cesspool of corruption with the Rpublicans at the heart of it in Little Rock. Someday somebody's going to turn over some big rocks there and expose these worms.
Mike the Canuck @ 43:
Oh fuck off Mike. Thanks for the great Moose hunting but when your population rises above california....give us a call. Fucking canadian Remora.
Attacking the opposition? What a novel idea. :-/
TAXES....TAXES......TAXES... Who cares about you taking on mccain TAXES....We want to know if you will take on your RACIST, HATE AMERICA PASTOR OF YOURS or when are you going to RESIGN over your involvement with the corruption and favors buying with REZKO and AUCHI.
“But he was right then, and he’s wrong now.”
That's exactly how you do it.
Pilot @ 131:
Probably just as soon as John McCain takes on John Hagee.
Scott @ 133:
Hagee is not a personal MENTOR, SPIRITUAL TEACHER, CONFIDANT and UNCLE like hate America pastor Wright.
Exactly, Obama is the presumptive Democratic nominee. There's no way Clinton can catch up [at least ethically]. So it's time Obama focused on McCain. In line with that, I'm so glad that Obama has cleared the Rezko air with the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun Times. The issue has been fully vetted, and there's no longer any there there. Obama can go after the GOP.
Steve Benen is an asshat! Barack Obama, of course, is the second coming of the messiah! snark snark snark snark snark
Pilot @ 129:
Yes, Conservative and Republicans LOVE America so much they want to dismantle all oversight and regulation and cut taxes to the rich and create the biggest deficits we have ever had, all because they LOVE America. We won't even mention preemptive invasion for controlling Middle Eastern resources, AKA oil.
chris @ 84:
Ever run a business, Chris? Guess what depleting your revenue stream via tax cuts and increasing your expenses gets you---a deficit. And if you are 30 or under, congratulations, our country's mammoth deficit is an IOU for your generation to pay from your Neocon "friends. King George the 1st called their irresponsible policy right-voodoo economics.
The Neocon bleating about taxes being evil was a way to pander to and buy off the public today at the expense of sound economic policy tomorrow. Your party is bankrupt and thanks to their arrogance and fiscal irresponsibility and now so is our country.
I'll be so glad when you self centered jackasses go down in November.
Pilot @ 129:
Get a clue. Mc Lame had no problem taking his money and telling us how Hagee was such a great person. Wright is small time compared to Hagee, who is a professional hate monger. Oh wait, you're a Neocon, the amoral party of self centered sociopaths and situational opportunists where hypocrisy is perfectly OK.
Better get the log out of your eye before telling us about the speck in others. But I bet you won't.
bmw H. 528 @ 133:
Wasn't that how Bill Clinton got into trouble?
These tax cuts are some of the most amoral things the GOPers have done since coming into power. They've thrown a party for themselves, and in the process of their debauched partying are making our currency worthless. They are partying their way toward global economic collapse. And they've done it all with money they have stolen from the American People. Worse, they have stolen it from people who won't even be born for another 50+ years.
Imagine yourself being able to take your own great-granchild, sit him on your knee and say, "You know, we had one hell of a party back in my day. All the right people were there (by invitation only, of course). you should have seen the food, the drinks, the drugs, the prostitutes of every persuasion... and the drunken fights with Afghanistan and Iraq. what a time we had! And the party favors? You wouldn't believe the swag!! Man it was wild! It went on for years, and you'd better believe that a good time was had by everybody who was invited. I remember it like it was only testerday. But you want to know what the best part of the party was? Really? Ok, I'll tell you: It's that the the joke is on you! Hahah! We stuck you with the tab and you are going have to to spend the rest of your life paying for it! Isn't that funny! We spent your inheritance on good times for ourselves and you got nothing. Nothing at all! Except the bill. Fuck you, you little bastard, and thanks for the good times!!! Bwahahahahahahaaaa...".
That's about the size of it. And McCain wants to keep the Party Animal Express chugging along indefinitely into the future. What the hell, may well as enslave the great-great grandchildren, too. I mean, what's the point of stepping up to the bell, if your aren't planning to give it a jolly good ring?!?
The Democrats always do better with the economy than the Republicans. The Republicans can say that the Democrats always raise taxes and be right. They take those tax cuts the Republicans give the rich, and put them back in the economy. The Democrats realize there are more people in this world besides the rich.
I think Obama is doing the right thing by going after McSame.Don't pay any attention to Hillary Clinton.If there are people out there that just want you and Hillary to get into pissing matches about stupid shit ,then let them have at it. Be the better person and attack the republicans.I for one don't give a flying fuck about what's in any democrats closet, I care about a rotten economy,an idiotic war,health care, etc. get it??? I hope so!
Hillary is probably going to go after McCain too. She and Obama came to some kind of agreement in the Senate last week between meetings.
Think about it people when has a republican ever been right about the economy?
NEVER!
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