A peek into an odd and inexplicable perspective
By Steve Benen Tuesday Mar 18, 2008 8:30amI suspect it’s pretty easy to guess how Democrats will come down on Obama’s speech on race — his supporters will say Obama effectively clinched the nomination, while Clinton’s supporters will argue that great speeches do not necessarily make a great candidate.
And what of our conservative friends? Kevin Drum grabbed the various reactions from the blogging staff at the National Review.
“Amazingly bloodless and dull; part moral hectoring part awkward defensiveness.” “I think if you want to be romanced by your candidate, he romanced you. And if you’re a guilty white person, you’re with Obama because he said so.” “Was it just me, or did anyone else note that for the first half of the speech, Sen. Obama seemed annoyed, put out by having to give the speech in the first place?”
“This a breathtaking attempt to pass off Wright’s hateful rants by implying that they are little different than the ‘political views’ of some priest with which a parishioner might disagree.” “Obama is no longer a post-racial candidate....today, he has embraced the politics of grievance.” “Blame whitey, and raise high the red flag of socialism. This is a serious candidate for the Presidency? Toast, toast.”
I know others have made this observation before me, but reading these bizarre reactions made me wonder what the reaction might have been to, say, JFK’s speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960 if The Corner was around to live-blog it. Or really, any of the great campaign speeches of the modern political era.
I almost wish there had been live-blogging at the time, if only because the reactions would appear so utterly ridiculous in hindsight.
I’m not necessarily arguing that Obama’s speech in Philadelphia will still be talked about decades from now — though, in all sincerity, I think it’s certainly possible — but if it is, I hope historians remember to reference conservative responses. “Blame whitey, and raise high the red flag of socialism.” This is what passes for insightful conservative thought in 2008 — at one of the right’s highest profile blogs?
Login or Register to post comments.
What a drumbass.
..and this morning, a new Reuters poll shows that Obama has lost his lead over Clinton (National poll) and McCain is now leading both Clinton and Obama (again, National poll).
Have the Dems now unequivocally shot themselves collectively in their feet???
Dean, instead of asking for money for the National election, fix this primary battle before the opportunity has truly been lost, because if current trends continue, there will be no reason to fund a Dem national campaign.
Thanks for the kitchen sink Hillary, thanks for the Michigan and Florida mess Howard.
100 more years in Iraq, you should all be proud.
Fascism. To them, everything else is Socialism.
Right-wing pundits are right there with flat earthers: ignorant and increasingly irrelevant.
I just heard Juan Williams on NPR, a black man for God's sake, complaining that Obama did not do enough to 'distance' himself from Wright because he refused to totally throw him under the bus. This from a 'black man'. So the corporate line of attack remains the same. Williams should be forced to bleach his skin white. What a fucking scum.
In the spirit of reconciliation, Here's What Hillary Has in Common With Obama’s White Grandmother
Those 'national polls' pretending to show McStain ahead of Obama and Clinton are make believe ... an attempt to manipulate public perception ... do any of us here really think that half of the population of this country wants four more years of bush in the form of McStain ? what utter fucking bullshit
Don Davis @ 6:
She likes to spank him?
"Blame whitey" - did they even bother to listen to the speech?
Andy G @ 2:
I wouldn't believe any polls...they're all shite. Meaningless.
Wingers commenting on Obama's speech is hardly surprising. What makes me laugh is the number of comments I am reading at left wing posts telling us what Obama 'should have said'. Yo' mama.
So how exactly does Obama's speech forward anyone's action but his? The money line for me was his quip about finding people good jobs. Jobs aren't found, they are created by people with ideas about making things.
What irks me and many of my generation about Obama is that he has never lifted anything in his life heavier than a pencil. Work and military service do more for race relations than anything else. But how would Obama know anything about work or service?
Obama is a pony boy. By his own admission, he has been given much all his life by government. He thinks if we all get along and tinker under the hood, the government can find lots of ponies for everyone.
Obama actually benefits when race is the issue because it distracts his supporters from other things, like his support of NCLB, his pledge to grow the military so America can keep policing the world, and his inane idea that he can save 2.5 trillion a year in medical costs while giving us more coverage and not asking us to get healthier. On the last point Obama is clear, like Bush he will never ask anyone to sacrifice. He has never learned the emaning of the word.
There is a good 25% of the population which is made up of authoritarian followers who will never, ever give up their hateful, paranoid and delusional world view. Just remember we are "winning" in Iraq!
Tim, the Enchanter @ 9:
Pffffft!!! Listen?! these neo-cons don't neeeeed to listen! They made up their OWN Obama speech...which was, and I quote "Kill Whitey, the end."
Obama spoke to the American people as if they were thinking, rational adults. The question then becomes: are we?
How many of our fellow citizens will even read or listen to the speech? Will they just listen to the talking heads that tickle their ears and form their opinion about Obama and his speech from them?
From people's reactions we will learn alot about our fellow citizens. I do believe that this speech will appear soon in be required reading in college and high school classes about history, sociology, civics, current events, etc and our children and grandchildren will be influenced by it, no matter what happens in this Presidential race.
Tell the right wing pundits where to go. They seem to ignore when Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Chavez or when they call Katrina God's wrath against homosexuals and it goes on and on. Yet Obama's pastor must be held to a higher standard. Obama should ignore further questions on this and tell the media to quit wasting his time over bullshit. America needs to shut off the TV when this crap comes on also. Money talks.
Sorry but I don't believe that McWar forever has a chance in hell of ever winning.
I saw a rebroadcast of the speech on PBS and was not impressed. He seemed bored. There were echoes of George HW Bush looking at his watch during the debates. He was framed with flags like he already saw himself as president. His speech was basically one long Tu Quoque, and went from the specific to the general so he could appear to be rising above the general.
Obama's running on a basic DLC framework, Hillary's Health Care (but only covering kids), the title of his book came from the preacher in question, and echoes Bill Clinton's Man From Hope, his calls for unity sound like a more erudite version of, "I'm a Uniter, Not a Divider," he even coopted a phrase from Thomas Jeffersons--the Declaration of Independence--"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union... ." The latter of course is in the public domain, and should be known by all, but now days I wonder. However, since his preacher is basically being accused of giving an unpatriotic speech, it is a relevant phrase from a relevant document.
Too many of all Obama speeches have that kind of New Age babbling about "healing" popularized by the ilk of Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil.
Obama still seems to wear suits that look like they were designed by Botany 500, worn by Robert Petrie in the old Dick Van Dyke show, and his wife has the simple shifts, and flipped hairstyle of a Laura Petrie. Both these actors were seen at the time of echoing the look popularized by John F and Jacqueline Kennedy.
I'm beginning to wonder just who this guy is since he seems to be mostly shifting surfaces borrowed from others.
I can. I shall. I am. Obama08
Obama is not getting my support because of where he stands on two top issues. Ending The Iraq War and Universal Healthcare.
Obama's top foreign affairs advisor, Samantha Power said that his 16 month withdrawl plan was just a "best case scenario" and that it's just something he's saying as candidate for president. What? That sounds more like McCain's plan. We could still be in Iraq for years if Obama gets in office. I think she was fired for telling us what they discuss in private about Iraq and not the "monster" comment. Listen for yourself what they are planning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzy3lObigF0
In regards to Heathcare, Obama has plenty of negatives to tell you about Clinton's plan to distract you from the fact that there is "No Chance" we will see Universal Heathcare under his plan.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/04/krugman-if-obama-is-president-th...
Obama is not the agent of change for the Democratic Party. He never was. Hating on Hillary doesn't change that fact one bit.
Regardless of whatever anyone wants to claim about Obama or Wright , or what Obama's speech did or did not contain ; how can wrong wingnut pundits possibly try to claim his speech was “Amazingly bloodless and dull; part moral hectoring part awkward defensiveness" ? Have they actually listened to the mangled fucking speeches farted out during the last 7+years , along with the stupid old fart now prattling on endlessly about "his friends" ?
Holy fucking shit ; that's akin to a single-A baseball player criticizing Alex Rodriguez.............
Andy G @ 2:
Most polls are meaningless until days before that particular election. Can we go on to the next non story to try bringing Obama down?
“Was it just me, or did anyone else note that for the first half of the speech, Sen. Obama seemed annoyed, put out by having to give the speech in the first place?”
Considering Obama has repudiated and rejected the things Rev. Wright said, and is STILL getting hammered over it in the press while McCain humps the leg of every white bigot with a pulpit and is never called on it, I'd say he goddamn well should be annoyed this is still an issue.
blue @ 5:
I heard that too, and found myself yelling at the radio. Does Wright have a point about our foreign policy? I think so. Is racism still prevalent? Ask the good people of New Orleans. This whole thing about Wright is mind boggling. Read the Jeremiah text he was quoting, and then ask if he was being truthful.
jsparrow @ 19:
And loving on Hillary doesn't change her votes on Kyl-Lieberman or the Iraq war vote ..........
Check out the link to the National Review (via the Washington Monthly). Those loonies (appologies to our Canadian readers!) are still arguing about whether during the run up to the war the booosh admin claimed that Iraq and al Qaeda were in cohoots. What a bunch of f.....g loonies (again, appologies to Canadian readers).
No wonder this country is in such bad shape - soaring deficits, foreign-owned debt, two never-ending wars, and smirkymcchimptok in the White House.
The term 'conservative thought' is amusing. If you had to give it a name I'd call it "sore loser-ism". It's the kind of talk you'd expect from members of a failing dictatorship as they watch their construct crumble around them while their opponents enjoy renewed support and enthusiasm. Were things slightly different I would expect people like Gore and Obama to be quietly 'disappeared' and then loudly discredited for whatever crimes the regime chose to hang on them.
blue @ 5:
Juan Williams is black in skin color only is what I was thinking as I listened to him and Renee Montagne smugly pretending at being hard-hitting journalists. I don't recall them doing the same with John McCain. At any rate, they were utterly stupid. Reverend Wright no more defines who Barack Obama is than the pope defines who I am morally and ethically or than George W. Bush defines who I am politically, ethically, morally or what kind of American I am.
P.S. Renee Montagnes voice grates on me like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I really hate how she tries to spin things positively for the Right.
In a sign of how badly she thinks she needs the Michigan delegates to catch the Democratic front-runner, Senator Barack Obama, Mrs. Clinton made a last-minute schedule change and planned to fly to Detroit on Wednesday to plead with Michigan lawmakers to approve a new primary election in June to replace the January contest that awarded no delegates.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23697622/
Keep going Hillary! Fight until there is no party left! Fight while McCain sits back and laughs as he wins the next election. What an idiot.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say if this post stays active, the trolls will be out in full force in no time, just like yesterdays. Anyone find out who sent them all crashing here?
Yesterday I read a comment that expresses a truth of those who jeered at Obama's speech. What Obama was calling for, in part, was Americans to face our own individual brand of racism, recognize it, share our stories with each other, understand those black and white stories through mutuality, and work together beyond racism toward "a more perfect union" as a country.
There are those who have no intention of doing anything of the sort. They were here in droves yesterday, jeering, discounting, pointing fingers at Rev Wright's racism, never recognizing their own.
I've wondered how on earth to "reach" such people. Maybe they'll remain with us for a generation or two.
Moving beyond racism will probably take generations. Perhaps the only thing to do right now is leave racists behind to wallow in their racism, black and white together, and focus on the teachers, in schools, in churches, in kids' clubs, in books, music, TV. and movies, the whole shebang of influence on our culture. If they or their children someday recognize there is something better and are willing to reject their own racism through self-understanding and connection with others, they're always welcome to join an America that has changed and is moving forward without them.
It's time to compassionately marginalize the racists, sexists, homophobes, so that the rest of us can move forward toward something better.
.
If it makes anyone feel better, Abe Lincoln's "Gettysburg Address" speech (way back when) was also panned by the newspapers who reported on it at the time. Illinois does seem to be able to produce some good fine speech givers.
Can we move on and address other major issues facing the people of USA?
.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 29:
Jeff Gannon and Karl Rove's promise to be in the middle of their group circle jerk this evening .........
Bugs @ 4:
If you've got the power, and you claim the earth is flat, you're not irrelevant. You are a danger to yourself and your suroundings, and should subsequently be put in a safe place where you can do no harm. The worst thing to do is write them off as irrelevant, and therefor in some way harmless.
No talking heads can take away from me what I heard and felt regarding that speech. Hell yes, I'm voting for Obama. I made that decision a long time ago and his speech yesterday reaffirmed my decision.
MargeAggedon @ 26:
Hey marco, how've you been ?long time no see. hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
mudshark @ 35:
sorry Marge.
That was meant for
marco@25.
For x-tra laffs, looit The Cornerites' reactions to Mitt Romney's religion speech back in January.
ysbaddaden @ 17:
Dude, I almost got banished because I was having too much fun enjoying you Obama haters comical anger yesterday. But for you to compare Obama's speaking skills to Bush is not only the worst political reach I have ever read, but you too Ysbaddaden, should also be banished for that ridiculous lie.
Surely you don't expect someone who makes their $$ sucking up to conservative rightwingnuts to find ANYTHING good in something a Democrat(ic) candidate says or believes!???? That ability to listen, read, and assess fairly positions/comments/information USED TO be one of the reasons I was proud to say I'm a LIBERAL! Part of the definition of liberal for me was to be interested in and seeking both sides of an argument before making a decision. Sadly, that is no longer the case and in large part due, I believe, to "live or otherwise blogging"...just read through a thread on HUFFPO about comments attributed to Tina Fey about Jon Stewart and TDS - my GOD, GET A LIFE those who bought into that piece as something worthy of commenting on...I'm betting her tongue was in her cheek throughout the whole interview and most commenting wouldn't know funny if it kissed them on the cheek! Of course THIS IS AMERICA and we're all free to make ourselves into FOOLS on a daily basis.....
I've wondered how on earth to "reach" such people. Maybe they'll remain with us for a generation or two.
Try using a cattle prod...or a bang-stick like divers use...these "people" as you call them...cannot be reasoned with. They are inflexible in their prejudices. Hate, fear and ignorance is the security blanket for those types.
Here's my stance on race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtIu61s2PDo
pissed off patricia @ 34:
Ditto!
I read the speech before I heard it and to tell you the truth, it was one of the most beautiful, thought out speeches in recent memory. I can only tell you how I feel but as I talked to other people who heard or read the speech, we were in agreement. It is time to move forward and make this country, again, the beacon of the world. For far too long, the Hannities, Limbaughs, Coulters and the rest of their ilk have had the stage. Look at where it has taken us as a country. Now is the time to move on and make this a new day. We won't end racism because too amny people are invested in it but after the speech yesterday, I believe there are a lot more people willing to leave those with small minds behind.
ysbaddaden @ 41:
GAH!!! Darn you st8 to HECK! Now that damn song's gonna be in my head all effin day! Bastardo!
Shouldn't that be str8?
ysbaddaden @ 41:
As opposed to Larry Craig's race to a provocative stance in the men's room ........
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 44:
Any better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E42QvbqorZI
ysbaddaden @ 45:
ysbaddaden @ 45:
You HEARD me!
But yes...yes it should be str8...;p
My understanding is that Obama wrote the speech himself. I have to say I have not heard Pastor Wright's sermons. I don't have a television. My understanding is they would be difficult to miss. I haven't sought them out, he isn't running for President. I know something of the fiery rhetoric that can go on in churches, black churches, though I am an atheist, more, an anti-theist. I won't take that part up presently.
The speech goes way beyond the narrow consideration of Wright the individual and essentially seeks to address our entire human condition in this country.
Rachel Maddow calls it a challenging speech. Her grey matter connectivity is greatly admired by me.
I have listened once and read it three times. I am now attempting to analyze it in greater detail.
I wonder how many people here, let alone the country are willing to put forward the effort required to understand it thoroughly.
The level of political discourse has been so thoroughly dumbed down.
It is nuanced and profound.
I think it is imperative that we (as liberals/democrats/progressives) not allow the MSM/Right Wing to establish a set of talking points regarding this speech. My personal feeling is that Mr. Obama gave an outstanding speech. I am no longer a wavering Obama supporter. After that message, I logged in donated some money to his campaign.
I remember in the Oliver North hearings back during Iran/Contra scandal. The Right Wing somehow tried to lionize someone who admitted perjury to congress. Most people, particularly those most likely to be affected by Mr. Obama's speech, do not have the time to view the 40 minute talk. I am not dullard, but I had to watch it twice to really capture it. It would be a shame if we allowed spin like this to detract from what should be a historic address.
He's still trying to explain his twenty years of silence. He didn't seem to mind this piece of filths' rhetoric before it was broadcast on national TV. It seems a bit disingenuous now to call for racial tolerance when, obviously, he never gave it a second thought himself. People, in general, are willing to forgive many foibles. But hypocrisy at this level is too much. Stick a fork in him ----he's done.
ysbaddaden @ 47:
GAAAAH!!!
What? No Roger Ramjet? Slippin...
Yeah, but all these guys want is to hear Bush Jr. re-issue his post 9/11 speech to Congress, except they'd rather him do it in the flight suit.
After listening to the speech I began to wonder how long it would take for the right-wingers to find anything to smear, and sure enough they we out their in full force trying to find anything to parse.
You're kidding me, right? Did this guy even read or listen to the speech? At what point did Obama even come close to saying "blame whitey"? In fact, he really said the opposite.
And as to the "red flag of socialism", I just have to laugh. At NO POINT during his speech - or anywhere else in his campaign - has Obama advocated for socialism in any form. Of course, I'd like it if he did, but he's no socialist.
Try again, wingbats.
Neocompoop!
Relevant?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8
They were better with Eric Burden
Here's another oldie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_LjjI8TcQ0
See? Leave them to wallow...
This lugubrious exercise in self pitty seems to be the hallmark of the left thinking category of the human species.
C'mon folks, Obama will be fine. Teh Rev. Wright story is history, it is time to move along.
RLF @ 51:
If hypocrisy was any determining factor in any candidate's electability , the horseshit GOP wouldn't even be able to have someone elected to run a peanut stand .............
pissed off patricia @ 34:
Atta Girl!!
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 52:
Wasn't Roger Ramjet a 70's porn star?
I was going for a racing motif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZIjT3S7wvc
In this one, you can see me eating a banana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Ejtb6Ltqw
"Barack Obama stood up in Philedelphia today and called for race riots."
Wiing N. Job
(Writing for the Conservative Ragg.)
MCMetal @ 60:
Before the turn of the
centurymilennium a candidate like McLame would be nothing to worry about. Post Diebold, however, anything can happen.Alice Hussein @ 49:
I heard clips of Wrights speech...at first...the southern white male part of me didn't care for it...then the open minded part was like hey...maybe I'd feel the same way if I was a black man. This country hasn't exactly made it easy to be black.
I haven't heard Obamas speech in it's entirety, I have no tv either. I have read quite a bit of it though. And I think, from what i've read and heard, his (Obamas) speech will be in history books.
I am still a Obama supporter. Now more than ever.
Radically Moderate @ 59:
"It is time to move along", more like it's time to pass the buckets and keep bailing, because the Obama boat is sinking fast!
As many of you know I like both candidates.And will support whichever candidate gets the nod.
But I find Sen Obama somewhat disingenuous,when he first stated that he had never heard incindiary comments like that before form his church.And then yesterday he says he has heard such comments before..
And ,having known all along about these comments,still puts Rev Wright on his campaign as his "Spiritual Advisor".
Everybody jumped all over Ferraro for her comments,but give Obama a pass.
No,This will not go away anytime soon.you can move along,but,it's going to follow.
The speech was OK but not amazing. His delivery was stilted and stiff. The content was alright but not all that.
Wow, the neocons are rally starting to crawl into their bunkers. Political extinction must really be a bitch.
More appropriate for a McCain thread?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI
RLF @ 51:
You think his minister is a piece of filth? I've seen the controversial sermon. What exactly did he say that gets you so angry? Everything he said was the truth. Because a black minister said it, makes it a lie? I don't follow this bouncing ball at all. Those who protest this minister's sermon, seem to be card carrying redneck flag wavers that are shocked and angry that anyone dares to question the US "good guy" persona. Is that why everyone is so angry? One minister somehow took the shine off Americana?
See?
More wallowers.
If you saw Obama's speech yesterday, watch bush's speech at ten o'clock this morning and compare and contrast. Bush will be speaking about the Iraq invasion but compare their styles.
Bears Are Fat @ 68:
You sound like somebody who's father tried to drown him in a bucket of words as a child and now you look at all words in the same way.
Personally, i'd sue.
I'm sorry, but some you are real hypocrites. I may go to a movie and not like the movie but I'm not going to critisize the owner of the movie theater. If I go to a church and don't agree with the sermon, it is not up to me to critisize the Pastor. If I go to your house and see something or hear something you say, it is not up to me to critisize you. It is not Obama's responsibility to critisize the Pastor.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 71:
Thank you CC...Well said my friend!
jsparrow @ 66:
Time will tell if this non story will hurt Barack. Honestly, if this is the worst that the Repugs can throw at Barack his boat can weather that storm.
pissed off patricia @ 73:
No thanks...I'll pass.
I do think he's an eloquent speaker though(Obama)
pissed off patricia @ 73:
Normally I agree with your points PoP, but are you suggesting just because he is a good speaker, you support his bid? I mean, I've heard better speeches from grade 4 students than what Bush gives.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 71:
Amen!
pissed off patricia @ 73:
Mangling the English language while spewing out stupid unintelligible shit like an epileptic pigeon is considered a "style" ?
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 76:
Walk a mile in his shoes.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 79:
Funny how instead of lowering the bar, Bush's Presidency has raised it for Democratic candidates.
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 76:
I just don't understand the anger. Even in the media. Can someone explain this to me? Rev Wright is a minister. They ALL say controversial things all the time. Some every Sunday. I don't get the point of this at all. And for a country that claims religion and politics should not be mixed, I fail to see the connections here. So the man goes to church and his pastor says things. Big deal. I'm sure Hillary and McCain go to church and their ministers say things controversial. I consider the entire christian religion to be nothing more than lies and stories. But a minister speaking the truth for once is controversial?
RLF @ 51:
So you have heard 30 seconds of 2 sermons this minister has given over a 30 year period, and you jump to the conclusion that this is what this man is all about? The msm has failed to show us anything else this man has said. Why is that? Could it be that there isn't anything there? We have all been waiting for the right to start swift boating Obama, and some of you people have already bought it hook line and sinker.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 83:
Yes, but just for Democratic candidates, and the bar that is raised is from their own darn supporters. Odd.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 83:
The greatest gift for the Dems comes every time Bush spews forth his own brand of excreta from his gaping maw.......whatta hoot!
God Damn America? I don't think so,Damn the people who did all this crap.The Politicians. Not All of the innocent people who have no control over these issues.
As for the Rev Wright,watch those videos closely.Watch the Rev,as he keeps going back to read off of that speech he made.
All those comments were rehearsed. He knew exactly what he was doing when he made those remarks.
And he knew the kind of reaction he was going to get. Did he do Sen Obama a favor with all this ? somehow, I don't think so
MargeAggedon @ 26:
Absolutely. Steve Benen uses the term "insightful conservative thought in 2008" as if to say that conservatives were ever thoughtful. I think that this current crop of conservatives is so bad at marketing their shitty messages of homophobia, xenophobia, misogyny, sexism, military force to dominate other countries, fiscal irresponsibility, bad environmental policies, and regressive social policies that old time conservatives, like the late William F. Buckley, are somehow romanticised into something they never were. Buckley might have been more likable than this group, but that didn't make his ideas and philosophy any less backwards than today's conservatives. Their ideas and governance sucked then, just as it does now, they just don't know how to sell their faulty products anymore.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 83:
Wow! You're right!
It must be because "politics as usual" with all its dirty-dealing and corruption is what got Bush into the presidency in the first place. His presidency is such a disaster and the worst culmination of "politics as usual" that we can't go that route again if we are to survive as a nation.
Frankly, I don't care what Kevin Drum has to say about Obama's speech. I am going to vote for Obama anyway and nothing Drum says is going to change that. The right winger's usual method to take down someone or to get people to back a certain action or issue is to get an emotional response. They hope to get people so fearful or angry about their target that they will eventually believe anything that particular right winger says about said target. I didn't fall for the fear generated from Saddam's supposed "WMD" or the hypothetical "mushroom clouds" and I'm not about to fall for this "blame whitey" crap.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 83:
That's how neo-cons play it: "I make the rules. I change them when they're not in my favor, or when they're in your favor.
Hillary has learned to play the game that way.
"raise high the red flag of socialism."
What i've been saying since these bastards were allowed to steal the color of revolution.
the Wrights, Hagees, Robertsons et al. make me prouder than ever to have embraced in my heart as my personal savior Reason.
No one can afford to pander to us.
mudshark @ 88:
Also look behind Wright, it seems that not everyone in that church agreed with him.
I submit that this country needs more lunatics like this person that Obama is attempting to distance himself from. Uncomfortable truths like these are what this country can use more of.
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Iraq-IQ-Test-Wright23feb03.htm
The dummy is speaking now.
I agree, Canuck. What exactly did the minister say that was untrue? As a W.A.S.P. (a standard whiteboy) I've never had to face the daily prejudices and setbacks the average Black American often faces, but simple observation of my surroundings has demonstrated that racism is rampant in America. I'm also sick of people who try to quantify the "fairness" of a Black man complaining about racism compared to a white person (in this case Ferraro). Sorry, but it is not even close to being an equal argument. White people were not brought over here against their will, made into slaves, and treated as such for generations. I'm in my thirties, which means my grandparents and even parents were around when Blacks weren't allowed to drink from the same water fountains, when they had to sit in the back of buses, couldn't attend the same schools, when segregation was sanctioned. Equal arguments? Bullshit. As far as I'm concerned the average Black American has the right to spout any racial complaints they want and everyone else who wants to bitch on the subject should shut the hell up, but we know that won't happen.
935 lies to get us into a war. Millions of lies to cover the 935 lies that got us where we are today.
jwf @ 89:
I think there was more than a bit of snark in Steve's comments.
Making up shit again.
Erroll @ 95:
Thanks for the link. I'll bet lots of people haven't seen that.
Jesus fucking Christ ; the Crawford retard just said "those in the Department of State"..........It's the "State Department" , you fucking imbecile.........
this elections going well! just like the corporations planned it!!!!!!!!!!!they forced out anyone who had a chance of turning this country around and who might have had this administration indighted for treason and take back our rights that were taken from us, and end this war in iraq and afganistan, kucinich and edwards offered more hope for this country then ether obama or clinton , they ,the corporations gave you two candidates that have no chance of winning in november, and youve bought it hook line and sinker ! this was not the time to try to get a woman or a black man elected ,they knew it would be a loss for the democrats , even if the elections not rigged and they will try to fix this election, thanks to everyone wanting to make some kind of history about electing a black or a woman we will loose to an old fart like mccain , and suffer 4 or eight more yrs of repigs stealing and more deaths by these thugs!!!!
blue @ 5:
"bleach his skin white'? No thanks, we have enough nutballs over here on the pale side.
MCMetal @ 102:
No, it is both.
Scott @ 13:
Bob Altmeyer's book on the authoritarians is a recommended read for anyone who wants to really understand republican's and the religious right.
You should also probably look into a similar study that was done at UCLA and NYU.... They came to the EXACT same conclusions as Mr. Almeyer's 40 year study.
That's frightening, but also, it's to be expected. Just look at the behavior of republican politicians and members of the fundamentalists religious right.
Both exhibit a kind of dangerous mental process... a fascist behavior... that can send us down a dangerous road.
The willingness to kill and torture... it's all to be expected. The greed, fear and hatred? Just part of the package.
It's all happened before. This behavior is nothing new. That doesn't mean it should be tolerated.
These people are sick. Mentally ill.
The book is available in paid printed format, but also in free download, because the author felt it was so important that people read it.
That's right... he's giving it away for free. That's how concerned he is.
Just download it and read it. You'll be shocked by the author's horrific discoveries.
Just remember, two universities came to the same conclusions in similar independent studies.
I give better speeches than boosh
Even when I'm drunk off my ass.
euthyfro @ 93:
The Hagees and Robertsons seem to pronounce the US damned from time to time. Mainly because of the existence of gays and working women from what I've heard from them. Is none of this on video?
People that react thusly to Obama's speech weren't ever going to be swayed anyway. They are already so deeply beholden to their particular cynical wretchedness there is no way for them be reached anyway. They want to believe in ills for society, that's all they see, for them there can be ever anything positive or sunny ever again with existence. They are unreasonable and there's no reason to even try to talk with people like this, for they believe what they want to believe. Intransigent, intractable, ingrained, permanent, whatever. No one should have any more use for cynical failures like this. Now the rest of us should move on toward the future, the potential, that Obama (alone) offers this country. I'm ready to.
99 CoIntelPro against the WAR of LIES Says: I think there was more than a bit of snark in Steve’s comments
Maybe. But the idea of "thoughtful conservatives" gets bounced around in the media and becomes accepted by many people as legitimate. Sorry to repeat myself, but: Their ideas and governance sucked then, as it does now. That needs to be hammered home as often as possible, so as to correctly summarize their failed philosophy.
Radically Moderate @ 94:
yes I understand all that and I also realise that there were some people who got all fired up.This is not my point.1 of my points is the the Rev was foolish in the way he delivered that speech. He did Obama no favors doing it like that.
My other point is.Obama knew all about these speeches,and at first said he wasn't aware of them.
Numinous,
John Dean (yes, the Watergate guy) has a book, 'Conservatives Without Concience' that is a quick read and goes into the psychology behind the fear driven who need the authoritarian figure, black and white worldview, fall easy prey to fascism, others to define morality, etc. I thought the figure was more like 35% of people, however. That would explain Bush's approval rating anyway.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 105:
No..........It is if you're an unintelligible moron from Crawford
What gets me is the rank hypocrisy and racism of the right-wing. Here they are supporting nuts like Hagee, Parsley and Buchanan who blame 9/11 on Americans, say New Orleans deserved to drown, etc., and they continue to be invited to the White House to help influence policy. Nothing controversial there. But if Obama attends a church where angry words are spoken, it's not enough for him to distance himself or ask the country to focus on the issues. The right-wing wants this to continue to be a distraction, because they know it appeals to our nation's demons and creates divisions beneficial to the GOP.
Sometimes the truth hurts. But that won't change it. Wright is not a politician. Obama is.
But they both know the score. And so do we. Just let it go. There re bigger and better things. This is serious now!
Alice Hussein @ 49:
Not many, sadly. and no wingnutters. Their ability to think and understand any complex issue is severely limited. If it doesn't come from rush, hannity, et al, they have no idea what anyone's talking about. To quote Olbermann, "Idiots".
peter in kobe @ 115:
I'm sorry, But to me....this brings his credibility into question.
114 Leslie
If they draw any distinctions at all it's that the candidates don't BELONG to those churches, just seek their endorsement.
The question is, why do they seek that endorsement?
mudshark @ 117:
oh and one more thing,That church should lose it's tax exemption status.
Why must Obama be responsible for what his former minster do and say and white Americans not be responsible for what their forebears have done to minorities of any race in this country?
mudshark @ 88:
Sure. People like you need to read a real US history book. I certainly don't agree with everything Rev. Wright said, but to call him racist for pointing out historical facts concerning this nation's dark evil past, shows your lack of education.
Left&Left @ 121:
I was wondering when you were going to take a shot at me.
I noticed you failed to prove me wrong.We can do this all day.Just be civil.And don't insult people that you disagree with.That shows your lack of education.
Roni K @ 116:
This is just the start of the swift boating of Obama. What I find sad is how many progressives and dems have bought into it already. We should learn one thing from repugs, and that is, don't speak ill of your own. We are making it easy for repugs by eating our own. Wake the fuck up.
diamondmc @ 123:
Obama expects this BS from them. That's why he made that speech yesterday. But it wasn't directed at the right-wing nuts, it was directed at Democratic and Independent voters. Obama was appealing to them to focus on the real issues.
MCMetal @ 113:
US Department of State homepage
Hey, Bay Buchanan thought it was pretty awesome, which shocked the hell out of me. The media is giving it better treatment than I expected, honestly.
EXCLUSIVE*******
CONSERVATIVE BLOGGERS REACTIONS TO THE GETTYSBURG ADDRESS!!!
"That was it! Amazingly short and unaffecting"
"Four score and seven? Four score and seven?! Its 87, Abe! No wonder your own wife won't have a beer with you."
"...and why can't we consecrate and hallow the ground? Just another attempt to take God out of our nation."
" 'that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- ' But he doesn't appreciate the freedom. If he did he would keep fighting this war."
This is all they've got and they know it.
mudshark @ 122:
You seem to know alot about what this minister is about, how many sermons over his 30 years have you heard? Do you have any links? How many times have you been to his church? We have heard two 30 second cuts from two speeches, and yet you know who and what he is about.
c127 @ 120:
This is the correct response to anyone who raises the issue. Good work, c127.
You don't have to imagine
You don't have to imagine what The Corner's response to JFK or MLK would have been. The Corner is the direct spiritual and intellectual descendant, by way of Wm F Buckley, of the John Birch Society. Just read what the NR had to say back in the day about JFK and MLK for the somewhat cleaned-up and more high-toned version of what the Birchers were saying.
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 84:
It's because the former minister is black...if he was white this would be a non-story. Sad but true. Seems that white firebrand preachers get a pat on the back, and this guy gets a media hack job...Racism sucks.
If any of you Obama/Wright haters would at least acknowledge that Rev. Wright spoke some truths about this nation's violent history(particularly towards non white people) I would listen to your grievances. But the way some of you bloggers arrogantly ignore your own savagely violent acts and slam Wright, I'LL NEVER SIDE WITH YOU. 100 years from now you Wright haters will brag about saving Iraq from itself and of course ignoring the death and destruction.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 125:
ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 79:
I said compare the style of speaking. The way they handle themselves while speaking. As for Obama, his words and his style so out class bush that it's amusing.
Hello, Lemmings... Enjoying your party? Where's everybody going? To the edge of the dance floor? You mean, that edge over there? The one that drops off suddenly?!?! Hey, let me outta here! HEY, stop pushing!!! Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Aaayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of you who are avidly participating in the "he said, she said," "their mudslinging is FAR worse than our mudslinging," "race-baiting," "misogynistic" crap currently eclipsing the discourse in the Democratic Party need to consider one basic fact:
you are doing exactly what Rove and the Corporate Megalomaniacs want you to do.
If you are participating in the mudslinging, you are one of a bunch of lemmings--about to plunge off the precipice and drown in your own hubris.
The Democrat you support is irrelevant as long as you gleefully participate in the Rovian divisiveness that frames our nation's political discourse. It's a set up, and you all seem oblivious. What's it going to take to wake up the lot of you?!
CoIntelPro against the WAR of LIES @ 134:
Find me one individual who has ever uttered "Department of State" during a speech ............No one uses that vernacular ; it's always the "State Department".
MCMetal @ 137:
RLF @ 51:
I've been reading backwards up the comments and this particular bon mot has been quoted a lot. I am struck by the use of the word "filth". My, my. What sorts of huge, ugly buttons must the author of this comment possess to call Wright this on only one hearing of one piece of one sermon given over decades of ministry?
Never mind. I don't want to know.
Taht should have read, Who cares?
Leslie @ 124:
The Peoples Front of Judea!!!
MCMetal @ 137:
Hey! where are the Condoliar Centerfold shots?
Didn't PLAYBOY do a "Department of State" spread?
*immediate uncrolled wretching at the thought*
NEVERMIND!
Drum"s little rant is a kind of fraternity code. It is directed to snotty little prep school types. It is not an appeal to reason, just class nastiness.
chervilant @ 136:
it lacked the proper highlighting
mudshark @ 88:
Hey Muddy!
I am neither an Obama supporter nor detractor... I will vote for the nominee of the party because one glance at what McCrazy is hawkin' and frankly he makes Atilla the Hun look like Mr. Rogers!
Having made that disclosure though...
1. Out of context sound bites don't represent the full message of what the minister was saying any more than the "Dean Scream" was an accurate portrayal of the events at his rally.
Ministers, as all public speakers do, frequently resort to shock values to get the attention of the audience and get them thinking about what they are saying and then can go on to expound on a point that completely nullifies the word bomb they used to shock them. Isolating a couple of those statements with out their full context is pretty shabby journalism.
The media lovessss controversy though and doesn't give a damn about the truth. I'd like to see the full text of the sermon before I condemn Rev. Wright.
2. Will it hurt Obama? Probably... but more likely in the minds of people who were set against him in the first place and more than likely wouldn't have voted for him anyway.
As to his speech:
An old saying from India: When the sage walks down the street... the pickpocket only see the pockets!
People will only see and hear what they have the capacity to perceive... according to their biases. I don't compare Obama to a sage, but the reactions of the "conservative commentators" should surprise no one.
We should be looking at the issues in evaluating candidates, not focusing on their race or gender. I get angrier by the minute with the type of coverage by the media we have because it is 70% focused on the controversy and 30% on the issues.
Watch the reports... you'll find that they will slant their coverage to points that have to do with the hot spot of the moment, but let a candidate talk about what he or she will do if elected and they will cut away very quickly or have the announcer begin to blather. Obama was talking yesterday about race and religion in a speech and they let that through... then as soon as he began to talk about specifically what he would do about the economy... with the market collapse of Bear Stearns on everyones mind... it was cut back to the studio for more Blitzer Blather!
sulphurdunn @ 143:
just like that thinly-coated warning against 'arrogance' that was highlighted in C&L yesterday.
Yep! just more racist code.
Reverend Jeremiah Wright's New Sit-Com On Fox!
diamondmc @ 129:
hey I'm just commenting on the Rev remarks, He did make those remarks didn't he? And was he right? Hell Yes he was right. It was in his delivery.He knew he was being inflammatory.
That was foolish."He Did Obama No Favors" but I question Obama's sincerity when he said he had not heard of such comments,then does a 180.
Still wallowing, I see.
oh,I didn't like "God Damn America".That was too general.He should have said"God Damn The People who are responsible for this debacle and reputation around the world.
Login or Register to post comments.