Shakin' it foist!

The fact that MSM is reporting on this recession is nothing short of a complete turn around. For months, MSM tipped toed around this issue. For many Americans, this was a no-brainer. I worry about the middle class.

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Someone is an idiot.
]no personal attacks please........Site Monitor]

I find it hillarious that a comment from someone who is SO out of touch with reality, saying all is okay, is supposed to be comforting to the nation.

When was the last time that excuse of a man managed to predict something correctly, or told a situation as it is?

\o/

Give up...

Cowpotpi3 @ 5:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

[deleted....personal attack...Site Monitor]
That's not a response, give me something more. This is a market economy, its the way it works and their is nothing the government can do about it because they don't control it. This is not Mao's China where everyone is guaranteed a job.

My wife and I just got back from CostCo and were shocked at the increase in prices even at a food-club. We talked in the aisle for a while and decided that things wont get better anytime soon. So we bought Rice in 50 pound sack (there's just the two of us on a fixed income) We are stocking our larder with bulk canned food. We can't be secure with this economy going like it is, so ... get prepared folks. It's getting worse every day.

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ahh, A true compassionate Conservative! I know it will do no good to scum like you, but I have 2 very close relatives that were Republican, they were borderline psycho about it for 30 years. They were "downsized" in 2006 by their company and had to pay $900 per month insurance and when unemployment ran out and couldn't pay their debts, they filed for bankruptcy. They were making good salaries and lived a good life, but they finally saw how the millions of people have suffered under the idiot in chiefs command. They turned to Democrats and hate all the Republicon party stands for today. I try not to call them what they really are- hyocrites, but they never thought twice about how others struggled until they joined in the suffering.

chris @ 9:

Cowpotpi3 @ 5:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Thats not a response, give me something more. This is a market economy, its the way it works and their is nothing the government can do about it because they don't control it. This is not Mao's China where everyone is guaranteed a job.

thank you president hoover. your compassionate conservatism is overwhelming.

i would have thought truckers would have raised holy hell over gas prices but apparently not.

but hey, when do we get to have a beer with dickhead?

mao's china everyone is not guaranteed a job.

but if you want to talk manufacturing economic power houses, the prison industries in american and china seam to be doing fine.

http://www.unicor.gov/tradeshows/index.cfm

Democratsrule @ 13:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ahh, A true compassionate Conservative! I know it will do no good to scum like you, but I have 2 very close relatives that were Republican, they were borderline psycho about it for 30 years. They were "downsized" in 2006 by their company and had to pay $900 per month insurance and when unemployment ran out and couldn't pay their debts, they filed for bankruptcy. They were making good salaries and lived a good life, but they finally saw how the millions of people have suffered under the idiot in chiefs command. They turned to Democrats and hate all the Republicon party stands for today. I try not to call them what they really are- hyocrites, but they never thought twice about how others struggled until they joined in the suffering.

Sounds like they were never conservatives just dems in waiting. Otherwise they would not have expected a job, health insurance, housing, food etc. Besides, the only reason you and your buddies are "suffering" was because of choices YOU made, choice in education, job, marriage, kids, etc. Why does everyone want to blame republicans?

Asiren @ 15:

Chris,

Getting an education or skill isn't something that can happen overnight, and definitely isn't cheap. Even if the schooling was free, how are the brothers meant to pay for food and board?

The system is flawed, and the greatest flaw is the promotion of ignorance.

Life's not easy, they should have thought of this BEFORE.. What is the flaw in the system? Some guy had a factory job, house, wife, kid, 2 car, big screen but no skills or education and now he has to get another job.

How's it affecting me? The whole economic game for the last several years has been like running in sand, or like in a cartoon where as you try to move forward, the ground crumbles beneath your feet and as you keep trying to move forward you get caught up in the land slide and get buried.
It's like two steps forward and five backwards. And it's in everything in this country, from economic issues to social issues. We have been fucked royally. If you try to save money, the value of interest paid at a bank isn't shit anymore, and then the money devalues, and the only other option for "saving" are the risky non FDIC insured 401K's and the like. With what is happening, those whose retirement is based on these schemes are going to lose their asses like the Enron folks have lost. Say, how's that idea for "private accounts" for replacing Social Security working out? This is what the Criminal-in-Thief wants us to be depending on in the future is a Federal Ponzi scheme run by the Federal Reserve for the Banks, and Investment Corporations and fuck you consumer.
I blame Saint Reagan for all of this shit when the banking laws changed back in the 1980's allowing for the raiding of pension funds, changing of usury laws and allowing legalized loan sharking practices that had before been forbidden by law. There used to be standards for loaning money and you had to qualify to acquire money. Now if the motherfucker sucks oxygen and can blink one eye, they qualify for that car loan, home mortgage, credit card etc...Let freedom ring. Bury me not on the lone prairie...........

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Maybe, if "compassionate" conservatives like you hadn't wrecked the educational and associated support/financial systems, to the point that it is almost impossible to get a decent education without having to trade an arm, a leg, and your first born for it. Maybe just maybe Jack and his brother could follow your advice.

But since self centered myopic right wing jackasses, who would rather get that obnoxious bright yellow mega large SUV (and this is a free hint: the size of your car is still not big enough to make your wife/gf/partner forget what an atrocious love life your are putting out) than even entertain the notion of helping in the slightest your fellow man. Here we are, in an "economic" circle indeed.

The funny part, is that these circles are normal. And the weak dollar would have meant that the US of A could strengthen it exports, reduce imports, and come out stronger of the down turn with a balanced payment sheet to boot. But since the economic geniuses on the right thought that shipping jobs overseas was a fantastic idea. Here we are with a worthless currency, in a service-based economy which depends dearly on a strong dollar.

So tell you what, next time geniuses like you feel like sharing advice. With the track record you and your ilk, here is my advice: please stick your advice, firmly and as deep as you can, inside your rectum (if you can locate it... which is not a guarantee).

chris aka Paul Welstone @ 21:

Democratsrule @ 13:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ahh, A true compassionate Conservative! I know it will do no good to scum like you, but I have 2 very close relatives that were Republican, they were borderline psycho about it for 30 years. They were "downsized" in 2006 by their company and had to pay $900 per month insurance and when unemployment ran out and couldn't pay their debts, they filed for bankruptcy. They were making good salaries and lived a good life, but they finally saw how the millions of people have suffered under the idiot in chiefs command. They turned to Democrats and hate all the Republicon party stands for today. I try not to call them what they really are- hyocrites, but they never thought twice about how others struggled until they joined in the suffering.

Sounds like they were never conservatives just dems in waiting. Otherwise they would not have expected a job, health insurance, housing, food etc. Besides, the only reason you and your buddies are "suffering" was because of choices YOU made, choice in education, job, marriage, kids, etc. Why does everyone want to blame republicans?

So Chris, now that we know your a troll trying to stir things up (site-monitor take note) are you going to add anything here that has any kind of compassion or are you saying you just don't give a damn about anyone but yourself. Dems in waiting, what the hell is that supposed to mean? It took the Dems to fix the economy the last Two times the republicans had power. I'd say you need a bit of knowledge also, it isn't just in the US that this is happening, the rest of the world is worried because of this stupid move. Did you even watch the video from BBC mentioned here to see what it is all about ... or is it just all about YOU?

Chris aka, Are you serious? College costs, inflation, rising energy costs, failing economy, trillions in debt and your blaming the middle class? The Republican's dream was to make everything Republican! In 2004, the 109th Republican congress didn't dare question this President or his failed policies. Now that we, as a nation are going of a cliff, your going to blame the backbone of this nation, the middle class? Balls!

chris aka Paul Welstone @ 21:

Democratsrule @ 13:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ahh, A true compassionate Conservative! I know it will do no good to scum like you, but I have 2 very close relatives that were Republican, they were borderline psycho about it for 30 years. They were "downsized" in 2006 by their company and had to pay $900 per month insurance and when unemployment ran out and couldn't pay their debts, they filed for bankruptcy. They were making good salaries and lived a good life, but they finally saw how the millions of people have suffered under the idiot in chiefs command. They turned to Democrats and hate all the Republicon party stands for today. I try not to call them what they really are- hyocrites, but they never thought twice about how others struggled until they joined in the suffering.

Sounds like they were never conservatives just dems in waiting. Otherwise they would not have expected a job, health insurance, housing, food etc. Besides, the only reason you and your buddies are "suffering" was because of choices YOU made, choice in education, job, marriage, kids, etc. Why does everyone want to blame republicans?

Yeah, I chose to start a war and waste 1 trillion dollars we did not have. I chose to ship a big chunk of manufacturing jobs overseas. I chose to make obtain things like a decent education, health care, and a safe/clean place to live to be privileges and not a right.

There are personal choices and responsibility associated with them, no one is denying that. But the current cluster fuck is far more structural that a bunch of idiots making poor judgement calls with their own lives.

It is a sinking ship, thinking that just because it wasn't you who crashed the ship does not change the fact that you are going to be swimming real soon just like the rest of the people in the ship.

chris aka Paul Welstone Says: Democratsrule @ 13:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ahh, A true compassionate Conservative! I know it will do no good to scum like you, but I have 2 very close relatives that were Republican, they were borderline psycho about it for 30 years. They were “downsized” in 2006 by their company and had to pay $900 per month insurance and when unemployment ran out and couldn’t pay their debts, they filed for bankruptcy. They were making good salaries and lived a good life, but they finally saw how the millions of people have suffered under the idiot in chiefs command. They turned to Democrats and hate all the Republicon party stands for today. I try not to call them what they really are- hyocrites, but they never thought twice about how others struggled until they joined in the suffering.

Sounds like they were never conservatives just dems in waiting. Otherwise they would not have expected a job, health insurance, housing, food etc. Besides, the only reason you and your buddies are “suffering” was because of choices YOU made, choice in education, job, marriage, kids, etc. Why does everyone want to blame republicans?

Chris- aka Paul Wellstone,

You ever consider electro-schock therapy?

Chris - the human?

"Life’s not easy, they should have thought of this BEFORE.. What is the flaw in the system? Some guy had a factory job, house, wife, kid, 2 car, big screen but no skills or education and now he has to get another job."

FACTORY JOB? LOL

U.S. DON'T HAVE THOSE NO MORE!

Samson- @ 36:

Conservative economic ideology: bailouts and handouts are only for those that caused the economy to fail

I was once told that this is not a free market, since only the elites are:

- Capitalist when it comes to profits.

- The expect socialized risk for their endeavors.

- They sure are communist when dishing out the blame once the shit hits the fan.

Not me. I won't feed the troll.

'How is the shaky economy affecting you?'

The Detroit economy has been teetering since '01. I'm self employed. My sector is hard hit. It is very rough.

I have been running a deficit since '01. I'm 58, at this point I think I will take my pension next year, if it still exists.

I keep my thermostat very low (55°) because of the huge increase in natural gas costs, I turn the furnace off at night.

I drive as little as possible and I walk a lot.

I spend a lot of time on the net and Bush has it all. I go to the Library, as far as I know he doesn't have that file yet.

Even Jon Stewart can't take it anymore. Broken Arrow: Crisis in the Chartland

FASCISM is alive and well, thanks to Busholini and his cabal.

Bear Stearns CEO Alan Schwartz on CNBC.

"Bear Stearns' balance sheet, liquidity, and capital remain strong... Our liquidity position has not changed at all, our balance sheet has not changed at all..."

Two days later, Bear Stearns effectively went bankrupt.

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Reich-wingers also claim the great depression was a "normal business cycle". If a Dem was in the WH right now, you anti-American reich-wingers would be having a hissy fit about the economy and would be calling for impeachment. Sorry, a "normal business cycle" is not the highest gas prices in US history, coupled with the highest rate of foreclosures in US history, coupled with the weakest dollar in US history. YOU really need to "get real".

Chris is just frightened. It's a natural human reaction. He sees something bad happen, and immediately tries to categorize the victims into some group other than HIS group, in order to assure himself that the bad thing won't happen to him. So the laid-off brothers are grouped into the "uneducated, inflexible, unprepared" category, while Chris assures himself that he is educated, flexible and prepared.

It's important to recognize that anger is simply a cover for fear, and that conservatism itself is merely the philosophy of fear. When a conservative gets frightened, the conservative gets angry, and struggles to deny their vulnerability.

In fact of course Chris and all of us are part of America's 'working class,' a class that renders questions of "lower" and "middle" irrelevant. No matter how much money you make, if you have to answer to a boss for your survival and livelihood, you're a worker, and part of the working class. Conservative or Liberal, we're equally vulnerable to economic catastrophe, and the wealthy leverage that insecurity to control us.

We need to stop buying into the corporate propaganda that is used to divide us against each other and distract us from the ongoing pillaging of America's wealth by the very wealthy. Chris needs to summon some courage and acknowledge that he could be unemployed for a year starting tomorrow. The rest of us need to acknowledge that getting angry at Chris only plays into the goals of the ruling class to set us against each other.

The American middle class is the only salvation for this country. We are the ones who pay most of the taxes. Rich corporate shills send their money out of the country to avoid their fair share, then outsource the jobs that make the economy vital. The greed of corporations and politicians is destroying this country. I guess people like Chris like to think all democrats are elitists. What a crock!

I have to admit that I'm worried about the state of the country when I exit university. I'm probably on the right business track: if science becomes unimportant and research opportunities plummet, I can always fall back on teaching, even if that means high school (shudder). Still, with food and gas and every other commodity rising like crazy, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to be able to afford grad school AND food.

Oh well. Mary-Kate Olsen seemed to do fairly well without the latter.

Greg @ 54-

Oh, you stupid liberals.....Of course it's your fault- or at least your parents fault- for not moving to China back in the '70's. You idiots had no foresight. You're so predictable!

*snark off*

http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/

Cheney and his wife, Lynne, the magazine noted, had between $10 million and $25 million in American Century International Bond (BEGBX). As Kiplinger pointed out, the fund “buys mainly high-quality foreign bonds (predominantly in Europe) and rarely hedges against possible increases in the value of the dollar. Indeed, its prospectus limits dollar exposure to 25 percent of assets and the fund currently has only 6 percent of assets in dollars, according to an American Century spokesman.”

The plunging dollar has taken a beating lately on international markets. But at least one wealthy investor may be set to profit from the dollar’s decline: Dick Cheney.

Back in June 2006, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance magazine reported that Cheney’s financial advisers were apparently betting on a rise in inflation and on a decline in the value of the dollar against foreign currencies.

Bravo Lollimom!

Lollimom @ 62:

Sometimes trolls are paid to go to progressive blogs and waste our time and John Amato's bandwidth, and far too many people here more than happy to oblige.

Fair enough... but hey, that sounds like a great idea! Why aren't we paid to go troll conservative blogs? We could use it to make some money in the destroyed economy they're bringing about.

Chris @ 23

Asiren @ 15:

Chris,

Getting an education or skill isn’t something that can happen overnight, and definitely isn’t cheap. Even if the schooling was free, how are the brothers meant to pay for food and board?

The system is flawed, and the greatest flaw is the promotion of ignorance.

Life’s not easy, they should have thought of this BEFORE.. What is the flaw in the system? Some guy had a factory job, house, wife, kid, 2 car, big screen but no skills or education and now he has to get another job.

I don't wish for something bad to happen to anyone, but in your case I'm willing to make an exception. You do realise that in a year from now, you may have no employer. The results of that are a personal desaster. THAT is exactly what many in the western hemisphere are facing the next five years. Carefull what you say. You may find yourself in a heep of shit soon. It'll be because yuo thought it couldn't happen to you. Well, it can.

Alice Hussein @ 43:

'How is the shaky economy affecting you?'
[scroll or click for previous]

And my house is worth 40k less than the peak (25%), fortunately it is free and clear. Some of my newer neighbors have negative equity.

Ron @ 68:

We know that there are going to be a lot of republican congress men and women, plus their staffers who will be unemployed next year. How will those poor souls make it?

They'll become lobbyst's

Why do I even bother

How am I fairing?

Not well.

I worry daily about my 401k, the last treasure chest waiting to be stolen by some corporation.

I worry about my health and the insurance policy that only pays up to 80% of expenses in the event of a health crisis. Think about a hospital bill of 100,000...and only 80% of it is covered.

I've been so squeezed by the ruling elite that I feel I don't have time to become as active as I should in unseating the bastards who took over our country. But this has always been part of their plan: Keep the masses worried about their jobs and their security, so that they don't have time to become involved.

My purchasing power is being systematically destroyed with gas prices; profit that would have gone to me now goes to Exxon Mobil or some other oil company.

Most of all, I'm frustrated that neither Bush nor Cheeeney will receive punishment for what they've done to our country and the world. If I had one wish, it would not be for myself; it would be to put the two of them behind bars where they can no longer harm humanity.

Samson @64:

what the middle class has to do is buck the inequality and dishonesty of the system and continue to speak out for fair and honest economic policies. of course, that is a rarity, as the middle class, in their desperation to be “rich”, oftentimes sides with the rich and blames the poor for their own failings. when it is society that is skewed (in taxes, in education, in opportunities, in healthcare, etc.) to favor the rich.

The system is probably broken beyond repair. The gap between the haves and the have-nots is getting wider everyday; the rich corporate types outsource jobs to cheap labor, get tax deductions, deny the workers basic provisions such as full health insurance, dental, pensions, and overtime, and suck up cash wherever it may hide. The lower classes, especially these days, have to choose between buying groceries, heating/cooling their homes, and buying gas to drive to work. The increase in food prices especially hurts those with children and those on fixed income (especially since a fixed income is probably not adjusted to match fluctuating food/gas/electricity costs). In the end, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

The only way to fix the system is to start a new one. With so much of our economy dependent on Wall Street and how well a company like, say, Dell is doing, it doesn't make much difference what happens among the middle and lower classes. We can work our asses off, send our kids out to sell flowers, sterilize half the population, and it would have only the slightest beneficial impact on the economy, if any. The way things are now, the only way we impact the money flow in the US is by purchasing or not purchasing consumer goods, and with so much increase in the costs of everything we need to live and work in this land, I don't think there will be QUITE as much incentive for little Billy to get the latest game console, or Mary to buy an iPhone.

Revolution, anyone?

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Exactly. In a Free Market System, it is the responsibility of the citizenry to make sure that the top corporations make huge profits no matter how much money they lose.

As they hemorrhage huge quantities of cash derived from our investments, we must use our tax dollars to guarantee that no matter how fast bleed, we can refill it faster and keep them profitable.

The cost of this leads to higher gasoline, milk and bread prices. But the citizens just need to learn to leverage their lifestyles to maximize their returns as costs go up and their income flatlines or declines.

This goes double for businesses. If you have a small business then it is your duty to make sure that you're keeping your largest competitors liquid, by supporting taxpayer funded welfare queen payments.

Every Republican understands the need enroll our wealthiest corporations into the US Corporate Welfare Queen Program and make sure that their profts are properly socialized and funded by the proles.

The rising cost of food, rent and gasoline is just proof that our socialist corporate welfare system works.

Ok everybody sing! "Shout! Shout! Shout out loud! Snout! Snout! Pink and Brown!"

chris (Economic Expert) @ 74:

Albatross @ 53:

Chris is just frightened. It's a natural human reaction. He sees something bad happen, and immediately tries to categorize the victims into some group other than HIS group, in order to assure himself that the bad thing won't happen to him. So the laid-off brothers are grouped into the "uneducated, inflexible, unprepared" category, while Chris assures himself that he is educated, flexible and prepared.

It's important to recognize that anger is simply a cover for fear, and that conservatism itself is merely the philosophy of fear. When a conservative gets frightened, the conservative gets angry, and struggles to deny their vulnerability.

In fact of course Chris and all of us are part of America's 'working class,' a class that renders questions of "lower" and "middle" irrelevant. No matter how much money you make, if you have to answer to a boss for your survival and livelihood, you're a worker, and part of the working class. Conservative or Liberal, we're equally vulnerable to economic catastrophe, and the wealthy leverage that insecurity to control us.

We need to stop buying into the corporate propaganda that is used to divide us against each other and distract us from the ongoing pillaging of America's wealth by the very wealthy. Chris needs to summon some courage and acknowledge that he could be unemployed for a year starting tomorrow. The rest of us need to acknowledge that getting angry at Chris only plays into the goals of the ruling class to set us against each other.

You got me, your right, please hillary, I need government to save me, I can't made any decisions on my own, its just to darn difficult, here's all my money, do with it what you like..... To answer you question, I could be un-employed tommarrow or a year from now and it will be up to me and only me to fix that problem! The system you guys hate so much has brought you Ipod's cell phones and your computer that your now blogging with, it came with a price. The price that some people will be left behind. Think about it......

We owe this all to Japan and China?

I will have to work 'til the day I die, probably, assuming there's work to be had.

I can't help but wonder how many people who are now in for years and years of personal hardship voted for Bush. Twice.

chris (Economic Expert) @ 74:

Albatross @ 53:

Chris is just frightened. It's a natural human reaction. He sees something bad happen, and immediately tries to categorize the victims into some group other than HIS group, in order to assure himself that the bad thing won't happen to him. So the laid-off brothers are grouped into the "uneducated, inflexible, unprepared" category, while Chris assures himself that he is educated, flexible and prepared.

It's important to recognize that anger is simply a cover for fear, and that conservatism itself is merely the philosophy of fear. When a conservative gets frightened, the conservative gets angry, and struggles to deny their vulnerability.

In fact of course Chris and all of us are part of America's 'working class,' a class that renders questions of "lower" and "middle" irrelevant. No matter how much money you make, if you have to answer to a boss for your survival and livelihood, you're a worker, and part of the working class. Conservative or Liberal, we're equally vulnerable to economic catastrophe, and the wealthy leverage that insecurity to control us.

We need to stop buying into the corporate propaganda that is used to divide us against each other and distract us from the ongoing pillaging of America's wealth by the very wealthy. Chris needs to summon some courage and acknowledge that he could be unemployed for a year starting tomorrow. The rest of us need to acknowledge that getting angry at Chris only plays into the goals of the ruling class to set us against each other.

You got me, your right, please hillary, I need government to save me, I can't made any decisions on my own, its just to darn difficult, here's all my money, do with it what you like..... To answer you question, I could be un-employed tommarrow or a year from now and it will be up to me and only me to fix that problem! The system you guys hate so much has brought you Ipod's cell phones and your computer that your now blogging with, it came with a price. The price that some people will be left behind. Think about it......

I guess it is time to open a can of "TrollBGone" (tm)

deanyb @ 80:

Corporate bailout = 230 billion. BBBillion.

Could have just given every citizen one million [1,000 would be correct]. Savings = 229.6 Billion.

Then, we could all pay our mortgages AND buy groceries.

Be careful.

One billion equals one thousand million, in the US. 1,000,000,000.

The US term 'Billion' is the European 'Milliard' or one thousand million.

In Europe, one billion equals one million million. 1,000,000,000,000 which is the US trillion.

A million here, a million there, pretty soon you have real money.

BTW, this is not going to be a recession, it's going to be a global depression. And it's likely to last many years.

I hope chris @2 can maintain his smug, Darwinian sense of entitlement when his life is adversely touched by it.

chris (common sense in a uncommon world) @ 86:

Weaseldog @ 79:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Exactly. In a Free Market System, it is the responsibility of the citizenry to make sure that the top corporations make huge profits no matter how much money they lose.

As they hemorrhage huge quantities of cash derived from our investments, we must use our tax dollars to guarantee that no matter how fast bleed, we can refill it faster and keep them profitable.

The cost of this leads to higher gasoline, milk and bread prices. But the citizens just need to learn to leverage their lifestyles to maximize their returns as costs go up and their income flatlines or declines.

This goes double for businesses. If you have a small business then it is your duty to make sure that you're keeping your largest competitors liquid, by supporting taxpayer funded welfare queen payments.

Every Republican understands the need enroll our wealthiest corporations into the US Corporate Welfare Queen Program and make sure that their profts are properly socialized and funded by the proles.

The rising cost of food, rent and gasoline is just proof that our socialist corporate welfare system works.

Ok everybody sing! "Shout! Shout! Shout out loud! Snout! Snout! Pink and Brown!"

You right, I think the next president should take over the economy, decide how much break and milk is sold, regulate gas prices, tax corporations at %70, no body can get fired for any reason, free health care, education. You have won me over, beam me up, where the kool-aid.....

yeah,chris has maintained his sense of humor alright............lol.

Should have said... pay any bills

Paul @ 83 Says:

I will have to work ’til the day I die, probably, assuming there’s work to be had.

I can’t help but wonder how many people who are now in for years and years of personal hardship voted for Bush. Twice.

_______________________

Because the first time we didn't know what we were faced with, and the second time, the other choice was a partially animated bronze statue who changed his answers every debate and made people edgy about his ability to lead.

chris @ 23:

Asiren @ 15:

Chris,

Getting an education or skill isn't something that can happen overnight, and definitely isn't cheap. Even if the schooling was free, how are the brothers meant to pay for food and board?

The system is flawed, and the greatest flaw is the promotion of ignorance.

Life's not easy, they should have thought of this BEFORE.. What is the flaw in the system? Some guy had a factory job, house, wife, kid, 2 car, big screen but no skills or education and now he has to get another job.

you are wrong chris.....this has little to do with a market economy

bear stearns survived the great depression....they didnt survive 30 years of reaganomics and the bush depression

i have a masters degree in psychology and then took an opportunity to retrain as a systems administrator

i contract out to many buisinesses and they are all hurting, and my income has taken a huge hit....for the first time in over 10 years

the fact remains, lack of oversight and regulation has led us to this point

Here's what I've done. All my investments are in gold and silver. Silver alone has doubled in value over the last year or so. There are billions of ounces of gold and only MILLIONS of ounces of silver.

Silver has over 10,000 industrial uses (including medical as a potent bacteriostat) and with China's and India's economies booming, silver is poised to outpace gold in the future. They need silver for every cellphone, computer, in electrical circuits etc. Google it. Once this silver is used it is unrecoverable!! Cha-ching!!

When/if s&*t hits the fan, possessing 90% junk silver coins and 1/4 oz. gold coins will get you a lot further in the world than fistfuls of worthless fiat dollars or ATM cards that will prove to be useless at the empty Diebold machines at the local B of A.

Just go to Kitco.com and check "metal quotes" for about a week. You'll see a steady rise in gold and silver. Investment Rarities in Minneapolis is a great place to buy silver and gold and they have safe places to store it.

I'm just sayin'....

chris the new JFK @ 96:

Samson- @ 84:

74 chris (Economic Expert) Says:
"I need government to save me"

you mean exactly what the govt did for bear stearns?

i did get a kick out of your ironic 'econ expert' name, at least you have a sense of humor.

and you are right: the system that we have in place now, leaves many in need. it is inherently unfair, and unequal. the system allows a small few to get ahead, while the vast majority is left behind. the system requires a pyramid structure to the economy, with the vast majority propping up the rich.

of course the system is rigged to benefit those already doing well, and keep those who are down, down. and govt intervention is only acceptable if it is done for corporations, the rich, the banks, etc.

so, chris needs to be given credit for understanding something very basic: the "american dream" is a myth, just like the notion of a "free" market. it is on par with unicorns, dragons and elves.

You were an Edwards supporter weren't u? I think it was the "the system is rigged" thing, cause nobody has ever made it from been poor to been rich, they ALL started out rich. If you work, save, spend and invest well you can be wealthy. Stop acting like a victim, this is the one thing about libs that drive me crazy!!

Uhm, dude, it was clearly you're a locomotive short of a load to begin with.

slippy hussein toad @ 92:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ah, the tone-deaf song conservatives sing as they listen to the utter catastrophe of their brain-dead theories and hear . . . nothing of concern to them.

Shorter chris: I got mine, so fuck you.

Chris doesn't have anything but ignorance. Every reich-wing troll claims to be an upper class GOPig elitist with mounds of wise investments, multiple cars and homes, and stable large 6+ figure income.

Site monitor: Isn't against C&L's commenting policy for a single user to use multiple monikers? Chris is clearly in violation of this rule.

I thought the Republicans were supporting Hillary anyway? Rush Limbaugh says he'll campaign for her if it comes down to her versus McCain.

So why does Chris hate the Republican choice?

Chris @ 96 says:

You were an Edwards supporter weren’t u? I think it was the “the system is rigged” thing, cause nobody has ever made it from been poor to been rich, they ALL started out rich. If you work, save, spend and invest well you can be wealthy. Stop acting like a victim, this is the one thing about libs that drive me crazy!!

_______________________

Stop generalizing, Chris. The problem is far more complex than just people making bad life decisions, not having enough drive, or wanting handouts. Of course, it's also far more complex than the whole "the system is rigged to keep us down" and "the rich are taking over the country" arguments.

I will admit, the system is not very good right now. I think the coporations are getting too much leeway when it comes to worker benefits and from where they get their employees. Personally, I say that if a company wants to set up in America, then they have to hire American employees. After all, what's wrong with US tech supporters? Are these company bigwigs ASHAMED of Americans? Second, set the tax at an equal percentage for ALL, with the standard refunds for dependents, medical costs, and so forth. If you're making more money, it's not going to hurt you to pay what a middle class family pays; if they can function with X percent less, so can you.

And it's not really as easy as working, saving, and investing. For one thing, investing will bite you in the ass if you're not careful, and even the best brokers can be very, very wrong sometimes. As for working and saving, remember that not everyone gets paid the same amount; there may not be enough left over after food, heating, gas, and housing for saving or recreational spending. I know we all want it to be that simple, but at some point you have to accept that it's not an equal process and is highly dependent of what area you go into.

Ron @ 110:

Chris, you not a new JFK. I knew JFK. You could be a Dan Quayle though.

Chrissy, which is correct?

a) Potato
b) Potatoe
c) Both
d) Neither
f) Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton.....

“Investing well”, again, has nothing to do with you working a damn bit. You click a mouse on a screen and gain in wealth thanks to the work of others. Wages have been falling and the financial markets have exploded in size over the last few decades. This is where most of the wealth has been created, it’s been a transfer of wealth from those who produce tangible things for society to people who sit on their ass and monopolize the benefits of that work. How you can claim this has something to do with taking care of yourself is beyond me. It’s no different logically than welfare, you are increasing your standard of living as a result of the work of others and it isn’t even justifiable on humane grounds. You standard of living is dependant on state intervention, whether you realize it or not is irrelevant, although funny since you consider yourself an economic expert. You’d figure an expert of the economy would be able to separate the platitudes they teach in economics classrooms (I have a degree in the subject myself, so I realize what nonsense most of it is) vs. how it actually works in practice.

Pepper, when the government takes $10 billion in taxpayer provided funds and gives it to a crappy loser CEO to make sure he can buy another luxury lot, then that is called pulling yourself up by the bootstrap.

If the government uses taxpayers you paid into the government unemployment insurance fund, and gives you a check to buy groceries with after you're fired, then that's socialism.

Capitalism is where the government gives corporations gigantic sums of money so that they don't have to compete in the market. Socialism is making sure that the public is vaccinated against plagues.

Chimpinomics, isn't it wonderful?

Republicans prove their stupidity every day.

115 Weaseldog Says:

excellent

Destroy our democracy.
Destroy our economy.
Destroy our central bank.

Destabolize the geo-political status quo.

I guess our work here is almost done?

Since they're giving Dow updates in the other thread, and this is an economics thread, I figure I'll point this out:
After the "heroic" 420 point gain in stocks yesterday and early gains today, the short term profiteers begin bailing. Dow's down 156 at 2:30. I wonder if the Fed is considering another rate cut to make my savings account that much more worthless...

Ahlyssah @ 122:

Weaseldog @118 Says:

If you’re driving home one night and you stop at a light… Then Chris, driving his beat up old Gremlin with four different brands of bald tires on it, comes careening toward you, and crashes into you. It’s your fault. Had you arranged your life better, drunk driving Chris wouldn’t have been able to hit you.

_______________________________

Come on guys, do we have to resort to this? Just because you don't agree with somebody's views doesn't mean you have to blow them out of context or make subtle personal attacks. He's not saying that all bad things that happen are the fault of the sufferer, just that if you're not making as much money as you'd like you should have planned better when deciding how you wanted to get by (if I'm misinterpreting you, Chris, I'm sorry). Besides, if you ARE smarter than Chris, you can come up with calm, composed rebuttals without having to attack him.

Sorry, I just hate it when discussion is taken over by stiff devotion to one's own views.

There is really no good rebuttal to logical fallacies and strawman arguments.

I believe that Chris is a paid troll, working for the likes of Netvocates.

chris aka Paul Welstone @ 21:

Democratsrule @ 13:

chris @ 2:

Maybe Jack and his brother should get an education or skill that will allow them to be flexible in the market economy when its in a down cycle. This is a normal business cycle people, sometimes you up, sometimes your down. Whats with Don complaining about the donuts? Get real

Ahh, A true compassionate Conservative! I know it will do no good to scum like you, but I have 2 very close relatives that were Republican, they were borderline psycho about it for 30 years. They were "downsized" in 2006 by their company and had to pay $900 per month insurance and when unemployment ran out and couldn't pay their debts, they filed for bankruptcy. They were making good salaries and lived a good life, but they finally saw how the millions of people have suffered under the idiot in chiefs command. They turned to Democrats and hate all the Republicon party stands for today. I try not to call them what they really are- hyocrites, but they never thought twice about how others struggled until they joined in the suffering.

Sounds like they were never conservatives just dems in waiting. Otherwise they would not have expected a job, health insurance, housing, food etc. Besides, the only reason you and your buddies are "suffering" was because of choices YOU made, choice in education, job, marriage, kids, etc. Why does everyone want to blame republicans?

Because, everything republicans touch turns to shit...and that's a fact!
Hoover, Nixon, Ford, Reagan and both Bushes reigned over some of the
worst economies in our nation's history. Like it or not, it's historical fact
republican economics fuck everyone and everything except a select
privileged few and corporate welfare kings.

I know a person like Chris. In fact, Chris sounds exactly like that person.....hmmmm. The person that Chris sounds like sits at home on his really fat behind, totally financed by his Daddy. This person has, to this point anyway, been able to not work, but play at working totally unaware, and completely oblivious of the world around him. He has lived in his bubble consistantly to his now middle age, or a bit older. He's of the mindset that he is not responsible period! He can live that way because he has never had to experience 'real' life, it's a financed by Daddy world that he vegetates in. He actually thinks he has all the answers, in other words, a neocon of the absolute - just like our poor excuse for a leader, Bush. All financed on other people's money. In fact he and his Daddy are on a first name basis with our demented leader. As the saying goes...'it's really a very good thing that his Daddy was born before him'.

I read some of the remarks on Cafferty's site - one was from someone in my home town, Midland, Michigan. She was so typical of how I remember that awful town: "This is a rich town, we're not very affected. Gas is a little more expensive." The town is full of greedy Republicans - I couldn't wait to leave and I never go back unless I have to.

Ever since Bush was appointed president, this nation has been in a perpetual state of turmoil. Every corner turned has lead to more turmoil. If it ain't one thing it's been another. Every time you turn around it's something new. For about 8 years now its shit has been nonstop.
How can anybody defend these people and their practices?
NAME IT, ANYBODY!!! PUHLEASE, I beg of you, name one thing the Bush administration has done that has made America better.
Is your life better now than it was 10 years ago? Well is it?

The Fed's semi-free market... workers are free to be fired, but banks and businesses are not free to fail.

Heck of a job, Bushie. And now we all know the real reason the Soviet Union went under in the 80s. It wasn't Reagan's great foreign policy. It was Afghanistan expenses. Now it will probably be Iraq that does this country in. Iraq and the outsourcing of all the good jobs in this country so that we can get the lowest price at Walmart.

Hechuva job georgie and dickieboy.
You treasonous polesmoking war criminals.

Plenty of blame to go around people. Although I lay most of the blame on Bush and the federal reserve we also have ourselves to blame.

Bad economic policy by the federal reserve. Low interest rates making money cheap and helping inflation and devaluing the dollar (which has far reaching consequences including oil prices going up). Changing the way inflation is tracked to hide the mess we are facing even more. Someone somewhere had the bright idea of just printing more money to get us out of this mess - what a bunch of morons.

Bad governmental policy by cutting taxes and increasing spending. Giving "rebates" to stimulate the economy - what a bunch of morons.

Bad energy policy. Get off oil and stop the stupid push for corn ethanol. And you wonder why those donuts cost more, Don?

Bad economic policy on a personal level - spend, spend, spend - need it now mentality - not living within our means. Need that flat panel HDTV to sit in front of and drool into my potato chips. How did that Disposable Heroes of Hypocrisy song go again? "Drug of the Nation...."

Uneducated home buyers and greedy lenders. "I bought a house in 2007, 100% financing at a fixed rate." WTF? That guy is an idiot. Whatever happened to saving money and putting money down to buy a house? People using ARMs, interest only loans, etc. and they claim they have no idea of the consequences?!?!? I don't need to read the fine print to know how bad of an idea these types of loans are. Must of been a run on Bad Idea Jeans in the last few years.

UNSUSTAINABLE = UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

I am hardly surprised by the debacle we are in. More to come. Buckle up. The Baby Boomers have not even begun retiring in mass. This country is so screwed.

There never was a recovery from the dot com melt down as far as the average joe is considered.

Bush has been one steady bad economy and now it's heading towards a legendary bad economy.

>>Make sure you tell that directly to Jack and his brother when they’re breaking into your house to rob you because they can’t find work and are starving.

That kind of thing is already happening down in south america where the inequality has made life for the rich much less enjoyable than it use to be.

A PBS special on the rampant South American kidnappings showed many of the rich afraid to leave the house.

Ain't that a shame.

GOOD, maybe they’ll learn to share next time.

wooops, i forgot, lotsa $$$ doesnt mean yer automatically intelligent. Paris Hilton comes to mind as an example.