yeah, he has black skin. how typically black of him

Always remember racism is a two way street. Blacks as well as whites do it..

Republicans cannot win on the issues. They make up lies and say anything for an advantage.

Notice the media did not scrutinize McCain this week, instead they claimed it was misstatements because "he was tired".

Hard to win when you have a right-wing media to spread lies at key points in an election.

Bush must be a very sleepy man

The right is simply drifting into temper tantrum territory because the Reverend Wright scandal did not appear to be the easy Obama downfall they had hoped.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

I thought Obama was saying that his grandmother was like a lot of white people -- in close relationship with somebody black but still spooked by the message of older racist stereotypes.

One of the most racist men I've ever known was a white boss who was sorely conflicted by race. He was really racist -- blacks and white should never marry, blacks weren't as intelligent as whites, they were more "primitive", good at some sports but not college material, etc. Every single racist stereotype had a home in his thinking.

YET, he and his wife had adopted a black child, a boy, and he often referred to this as proof that he was not racist. He was MOST anxious to prove it. (Nobody had any respect for him so we often fed his just-uttered racist remark back to him and advised him that it was racist). I don't think I've EVER felt as sorry for any child as that one, though I never met him.

Obama's "typical white person" remark can easily be taken by blacks and whites alike as acknowledging that whites are the cause of today's racism. Thus, he IS promoting racism. If blacks want to see the real promoter of racism today all they have to do is look in the mirror.

Obama should never have acknowledged the race issue. There is no possible way he can please the right except to become a traitor to his race, the human race, like Clarence Thomas, Condoleezza Rice, etc. They twist anything he says into the statements of a insane racist bigot, when the real insane racist bigots are the right wing, conservatives.

You know what's even stupider? Air America has picked up this issue and THEY are kvetching about it.

Talk about a "no-win scenario"....

There’s a new anti-Obama storyline whipping through cyberspace at the speed of stupid. Put simply, some Internet nitwits say Obama’s comment that his white grandmother - who made racist remarks and was fearful of blacks - was a “typical white person” just proves he can’t stop alienating white voters.

The question is whether this is pure stupidity or a deliberate tactic. I think it's both - the people pushing this nonsense are incapable of grasping the larger points of Obama's speech because it doesn't line up with their parochial agenda, but at they same time they know that know perfectly well that the context of Obama's "typical white person" remark was in no way disparaging to whites in general.

buzz @ 14:

Obama's "typical white person" remark can easily be taken by blacks and whites alike as acknowledging that whites are the cause of today's racism. Thus, he IS promoting racism. If blacks want to see the real promoter of racism today all they have to do is look in the mirror.

IF Obama had said "..a typical white person, racist and evil" you MIGHT have had a point.
Since that IS NOT what he said, you have just taken his comments out of context for the sole purpose of fomenting anger and resentment.
I have faced racism most of my life (50 years) and can assure yoy that a mirror wasn't needed to see the jobs that were offered to less qualified men or see my mother pushed to the back of a line in a store.
Yes, Blacks can be racist, too. ( My own sister spews the most hateful trash about white people, infront of my white wife. We don't see her too often.)
But that doesn't excuse racism or negate the true resentments caused by the oppressive nature of this beast.

What is even more discouraging is that last night in Yahoo Politics chat the Hillary supporters were RABID over this "typical white person" comment.

I work in Senior Care - people of that generation ARE racists, are more fearful of blacks - it's the truth, he didn't mean it the way it is being touted.

How unfortunate for our country that we may lose an opportunity for greatness because of pure ignorance - on both sides of the aisle.

It must be one of the 7 signs of the apocalypse when Fox News shills are defending Obama and Dems (Hillary supporters) are condemning him!

I really think that the Rev. Wright "thing" has provided a lot of people with the excuse they needed to come out of the closet with their own latent racism.

I think it's so sad that this is the kind of crap we're reduced to.

Barrett D @ 8
It would seem but then again, Laura says he's in bed every night by 9:00, so...I'm going with real fucking stupid.

The speech was evenhanded in how it dealt with the racial divide in America and Obama's remark about his white grandmother was about context, not condemnation. Those critics who claim the remark was throwing Obama's grandmother under the bus are serving their own ends and fueling the bitterness.

Ashley Baines @ 29:

I'm a recovering Republican.

The first step is admission ;-)

Assessing the situation, I see Obama engaging the issues of the day with clear vision and a purpose of resolve.

On the other hand Hillary and McCant are getting a pass from the MSM while competing with their worshipers for the most obnoxious, juvenile and racist statements.

Ashley Baines @ 29:

I'm a recovering Republican. They left me at the alter when they represented Commando Guy as presidential timber.

I'm more afraid of the Desider n Cheef than Obama.

My complaint with many of my fellow conservatives - is that they treat politics like football. If Greenbay is your team - it matters not if they play poorly, cheat or use drugs.

Likewise the cheeseheads of the GOP installed a messianic smurf to the most powerful job in the world - a man who didn't know the difference between shia and sunni - a man who cannot find Iran on a map - a man who has defiled the currency, the constitution, and the prestige of America -

because he had the testosterone of a lion, but the ethics of a hyena.

Sorry - There is nothing Obama could do to the courts, the cabinet or the budget - that compares with the last 8 years.

And perhaps a Black Panther at Justice might tell us who shorted their United stocks in the weeks before 9/11

Ashley,
First of all, me and your soul both thank you.
Secondly, it's funny that you should use the sports analogy that you did. For years, I've stated that the neo-cons are more concerned with being able to sport a big 'ol foam #1 finger than they are doing what is right.
I could care less if America is the strongest country on the planet.
I want America to be the best America we can be.

Lastly, welcome. Please consider yourself the recipient of a virtual hug from a DFH.

Welcome to the United States of Alabama.

Just As Long As You're Any Part Black, You're Black.

So we can find any and every way to hate you and say that you deserve it.
You are inherently wrong about anything and everything.

And, naturally, that is how it should always be!

Jeez....

how people can take a frank and insightful speech like Obama's and turn it into a simplistic "you are a poo-poo head" debate just goes to show how far the right wing has to go in addressing the very real issues of race in America.

Race will have to be addressed in the US and I would rather have a fair minded leader like Obama guiding the debate than the reactionary nutjobs whose poor judgement led us into Iraq.

casual @ 32:

Assessing the situation, I see Obama engaging the issues of the day with clear vision and a purpose of resolve.

On the other hand Hillary and McCant are getting a pass from the MSM while competing with their worshipers for the most obnoxious, juvenile and racist statements.

exactly... well said

ciu @ 40:

casual @ 32:

Assessing the situation, I see Obama engaging the issues of the day with clear vision and a purpose of resolve.

On the other hand Hillary and McCant are getting a pass from the MSM while competing with their worshipers for the most obnoxious, juvenile and racist statements.

exactly... well said

Since the media has been engaged in eliminating Democrats, this is no surprise. But there is some surprise in the fact that Barack is apparently outsmarting the msm without out-dumbing the msm. They are furious and frustrated. Some one (probably from murdoch's camp) has told Hillary to calm down while they take care of Obama.

c2 @ 17:

The problem is not that Obama is a racist, it's that he has shown recently, with his latest comments and his associations, to be insensitive. People who take offense to being lumped into a group and being called "typical" are not racists or "nitwits" or "stupid", they are people who don't want to be dismissed just because they happen to be white. Instead of trying to explain away every comment and association, maybe Obama should just say "I'm sorry" and realize that he, along with most of America, has some growing to do with race relations as well.

C2, thanks for your comment. I think that while I disagree with you, you sound like a very reasonable person and maybe the two of us can advance the discussion, at least here in the tiny little environment of this thread, if we try hard to sincerely listen to each other. Here is a thought for your consideration: I'm wondering if you heard or read Obama's entire speech, or just heard the media's soundbites of Rev. Wright, the TV talking head opionions, then followed by the soundbite from the Obama radio interview? I heard Obama's entire speech --actually read it first -- and pondered it for several minutes. My take on the speech was somewhat different from any analysis I have heard from the talking heads in the media. I think Obama's central point is that the legacy of slavery, of Jim Crow and its aftermath, and of affirmative action and of our present bad economic state is that every American, white and black and Hispanic and Asian and every other nationality, carries attitudinal scar tissue that has become ingrained in us, and that we must bring into the light of day to acknowledge and discuss and understand. We are not a nation of good people vs. bad people, of racists vs. non-racists! Yes, in our history there have been wild-eyed destructive white racists among us wearing sheets and burning crosses and lynching people, and black racists shouting death to whitey and so on, but most Americans, yes ordinary "typical" Americans, are not virulent racists. However we do harbor understandable and explainable resentments and stereotypes. That doesn't make us horrible, evil people -- we are just human beings. And the basis or bases for our resentments are often real, and valid, and should not be dismissed. They are rooted in our flawed history and in the resulting disproportionately high crime rates among black men and with all of that baked into our thinking, let's carry this forward to the present and couple it with the personal circumstance of being unemployed or outsourced or passed over for promotion despite being hard working. If the typical person believes this is a zero sum world (and most people do!), and it's us against them, of course the result is resentment. This explains what occurs in the mind of a typical black person, a typical black reverend, and in the mind of a typical white person. So C2, would you do me (and yourself) a favor and read the full text of Obama's speech, and then tell me whether you still see something wrong with Obama's use of the word "typical"? He really didn't mean it in a bad way, and if we (I myself am Caucasian) hear the phrase "typical white person" and reflexively assume this means Obama is an anti-white racist, how unfortunate and wrong that is! In fact, your reflexive reaction to his use of the phrase ironically proves his point, that we have become conditioned to react reflexively based on stereotypes, and we need to work hard to understand why. So I ask you, C2, to read his full speech and then consider your own reaction to his use of the phrase "typical white person". I'll be looking forward to your response. (P.S.: I agree with you that he should not have used that phrase, because it is a "coded phrase".)

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 21:

All this race talk, and very little on Bill Clinton this week saying that only McCain and Hillary love their country. Yep, he's back making stupid comments, but that biased Clinton hating rightwing conspiracy media says little about it.

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election between two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interests of the country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on the issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics." Bill Clinton.

Nice.

What "other stuff"? Like the fact that Hilary is a woman? Or she's a Clinton? That sword cuts both ways.

Any fruitful discussion of race relations has to address stereotypes that have developed on both sides of the divide. These stereotypes may be the product of what we learn in our families, or they may be the result of an experience or even trauma which we then expand and use to characterize an entire group of people.

For instance, my cousin's husband, who is now deceased, hated Chinese people and called them every derogatory name in the book. It was very disturbing until you learned that when he was a soldier in Korea back in the 50s, his regiment was one of those pushed northward by McArthur, who had no idea that the Communist Chinese Forces were waiting for them. It resulted in a horrible slaughter of American troops by the Chinese, and very few in my cousin's husband's regiment made it out alive. He was totally traumatized by that experience and years later could not see a Chinese person, he told me, "without wanting to hit the ground and shoot to kill".

Now maybe this is a dramatic example of how one man's "stereotyping" was formulated, but it's true. Rape can make one woman hate all men -- she expands the experience to include all men.

What America needs to do is address stereotyping and understand each other's life-experiences that led us to develop or accept those stereotypes. We need to recognize fear and the long-term effects it can have on people.

Then there are cultural or family stereotypes, which I think are easier to uproot than stereotypes caused by trauma. I've seen many stereotypes wiped out by simple exposure to those somebody thought were inferior, maybe at work, school, or in groups one might be a part of.

And the final umbrella of all "unthinking discrimination" seems to thrive in most corporate cultures and societal institutions. We see it in this administration's non-response to Katrina. We see it in Barbara Bush's arrogant statement about the Katrina refugees in Texas. The unthinking contempt of the "haves" for the "have-nots". A need to feel superior by "helping the less fortunate".

I cannot tell you how many times in my growing up life in the South I had to go with the "church ladies" at Thanksgiving and Christmas to take baskets of food to the "poor Blacks". It was considered to be a "good work". Yet the memebers of that church would have had a fit if anybody Black had tried to worship with them. So while I'm sure the food itself was eaten by the recipients, I thought even then that I'd be humiliated if I were on the receiving end. Maybe it would have been appreciated more if the do-gooders of my childhood experience had invited these "poor Blacks" to share a Thanksgiving or Christmas meal in their homes. (I have a problem with charity that allows the charitable to continue to believe they're superior to the recipients of that charity. But I think that's another issue, more related to classism.)

Anyway, this is my thinking about the effects of stereotyping that feeds into racism. I think it happens from both sides and has at least two bases. One is "benignly learned", absorbed from family or the larger culture one inhabits. The other is heavier and is related to real-life experiences that are painful and traumatic.

The mainstream media is doing to Obama what they did to Paul over the New Republic article before New Hampshire. You can bet that that the fact that 6.2m people are in jail in the US for chemical dependency (or crime committed due to) issues. OBAMA SUPPORTERS SHOULD BE SCREAMING ABOUT NOT COVERING HAGEE AND MCCAIN'S ACTIVELY SEEKING HIS SUPPORT. The FBI issues on Spitzer and the state department on passports are Orwellian at best. I am extremely disappointed in the intellect of America.

The fucking Media is playing with fire.

In the US we are so smug, thinking that we would never fall into the traps of

Bosnia
Rwanda
Germany
Sudan
Kenya
Kosovo
Ireland

etc. (the list is sadly long)

All used the media to whip up ethnic hatred and violence.

Bob in PA :
You are correct sir!!! I had to scan down pretty far to find someone (like myself) who actually heard the whole thing and not just the sound bites. I am troubled that even the Obama defenders didn't have a clue. They are defending him from something that doesn't exist. Thanks for your great comment.

Even if any of you Obama haters think now HE is the racist, Obama deserves credit for at least having the courage to confront and discuss race relations. Hillary("no ways tired") won't. McCain doesn't (or in typical fashion ignores it).

When the Lie's So Big - Frank Zappa
(with video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn40MutsxC8)

They got lies so big
They dont make a noise
They tell em so well
Like a secret disease
That makes you go numb

With a big ol lie
And a flag and a pie
And a mom and a bible
Most folks are just liable
To buy any line
Any place, any time

When the lies so big
And the fog gets so thick
And the facts disappear
The republican trick
Can be played out again
People, please tell me when
Well be rid of these men?

tomorrow's NYT mag article sofball's on hagee. lets him off the hook on what he said about the catholic church (catholic church = whores) and his motives about speeding up the ruin of israel. only a couple minute piece. where is the in depth coverage. pbs religion and ethics had a guy on who was kinda aginst Obama, but noted his own episcopal church regularly rants against the government, so asked charles abernathy, host what was the problem. wimpy answer from the guest. perhaps the people upset about Obama really don't know why they don't like him, or just can't come out and say it's because he's black anymore.

Stranded @ 61:

Herbert @ 57:

I heard Obama's "typical white person" explanation and now I will never vote for him at all. The word "typical" is a general categorization like "Them" or "They". A typical whatever is just plain wrong, We are all unique in this world. I believe that a typical multi-racial like Obama is probably confused by living in two worlds. One of a white grandmother who was racially motivated by fear and another of a minister racially motivated by anger. Moreover, if my Pastor incited anger, I would leave the church.

Typical.

Thanks! My point is made.

Left&Left @ 56:

Even if any of you Obama haters think now HE is the racist, Obama deserves credit for at least having the courage to confront and discuss race relations. Hillary("no ways tired") won't. McCain doesn't (or in typical fashion ignores it).

Republicans do not confront racism; they exploit it.

Herbert @ 57:

I heard Obama's "typical white person" explanation and now I will never vote for him at all. The word "typical" is a general categorization like "Them" or "They". A typical whatever is just plain wrong, We are all unique in this world. I believe that a typical multi-racial like Obama is probably confused by living in two worlds. One of a white grandmother who was racially motivated by fear and another of a minister racially motivated by anger. Moreover, if my Pastor incited anger, I would leave the church.

Wow, talk about pot calling the kettle back... so you complain about a snipplet taken out of context about "typifications" and you don't think twice about uttering this gem: "A typical whatever is just plain wrong, We are all unique in this world. I believe that a typical multi-racial like Obama is probably confused by living in two worlds."

Let me ask my "typical multi-racial" ass a quick question: are right wing troll this stupid naturally, or do you guys follow some sort of training regime to improve on the natural stupidity that the good lord had fit, in her infinite wisdom, donate you?

Spicegal @ 55:

This is all so Rovian - take a strength and make it a weakness. It's the same way the right wingers swift boated John Kerry, and they've done it to others. Sadly, Americans are too blind or stupid to see the truth. The truth is that Obama, because of being biracial, is literally one of the most nonracist politicians in Washington. To suggest that he's racist is to accept that he rejects half of who he is, which is absurd. I'm extremely disappointed that Americans are falling for this. Just shows how easy it is to manipulate the masses.

I don't think the masses are being "manipulated," the media is just playing on the fears of the "angry black man."

But I agree with you on the fact that Obama as a multiracial person, out of the 3 people left in this race, should be the last one to have the burden of having to probe that he is not a racist. Heck, he is the product of one of the maximum proofs of tolerance: the fact that 2 people can love each other regardless of their race.

The sad part is that Rev. Wright did absolutely nothing wrong. His sermons are online in their entirety, and yet he was judged for a 5 second snippet taken out of context. As an agnostic, I am fairly certain that if that Jesus feller is for real, and comes back... that he will be nailed back on to the cross by a well groomed, outraged, rich, ultra conservative Christian... showing a bleached smile as he drives each nail with the joy and pride that doing "the lord's work" provides...

Chuck @ 63:

I'm a typical white person. I don't see what the big deal is. One of my best friends is a typical black person. The best part of being friends with him is all the typical white girls either like him or like to hang out with him. The guy has introduced me to a lot of women. I am VERY VERY GRATEFUL. My typical Mexican friend took me to a typical Mexican restraunant for lunch the other day. They make the best taco's that I have ever had. My typical Vietnamese friend is one of the funniest people I have ever met. The guy makes me laugh my ass off. Then I got my typical gay friend. I've known the guy since I was 8 years old. When he came out of the closet in the 8th grade; all I can say is that we all knew anyways and nobody really gaves a shit, except for one moron who is currently serving time in the state pen. Then I work with a typical bulldyke. I figure I can get away with calling her a bulldyke; becuase, she refers to herself as a bulldyke with great pride. The only time I ever saw some moron give her shit about; she beat the hell out of the dude in a bar. We all still joke around about that one. I've been teaching her how to work on cars. All in all I live a typical life with typical friends and I am sick and tired of the typical bullshit that goes on in our media. Here we are facing the greatest economic disaster since the Great Depression and our media is fixated on a stupid three syllable word. All I can say is; this is so typical. Every election is always the same; the media typically fixates on some stupid side issue and the political dialog gets typically dumbed-down.

LMAO, spot on sir... spot on... chapeau!

When will Left leaning blogs reclaim their territory from right-wing plants (possibly paid)?

After the nomination?

Frankly I love watching Bill O'reily's transparent attempts to slam Obama by trying to pass it off as advice every single night.

Talking Points Memo:

"Senator Obama is well within his rights to question the state of race relations in this country but by aligning himself with such anti-American demagogues as Rev. Wright his own patriotism is justifiably thrown into question. I think it would calm the fears of a lot of white Americans if he would hold a press conference dressed in a Stars and Stripes cape with matching shorts and a large Doctor Seuss type hat like Apollo Creed did in Rocky. If middle America could see him dancing around the stage to James Browns "Living In America" I think it would go a long way in convincing the population that he's not the "Angry militant black man" we all fear but the "delightful entertaining negro" we all could love.

buzz @ 14:

Obama's "typical white person" remark can easily be taken by blacks and whites alike as acknowledging that whites are the cause of today's racism. Thus, he IS promoting racism. If blacks want to see the real promoter of racism today all they have to do is look in the mirror.

Buzz, you are totally correct!

I believe rasicm in all it's fashions should be brought out in the open and discussed especially it early history. A while ago I found out salvery was the responsibility of both white and black people alike. I could never figure out how white slave traders could get all the numbers of blacks that they did when faced with very strong African kings and tribes in africa. Then a few years ago I watched a show where a group of american blacks visited the african slave coast ports to revisit their heritage. They went to hear how the evil white slave traders put their people into bondage but came away with quite a different finding. The african tour guide told them that in actuality it was african tribal warfare that put their people into bondage.

African kings SOLD other african tribes that were captured in tribal warfare to these white traders. The white traders bought these captured africans directly from africans themselves. The group of american blacks broke down and wept at this fact they never knew. All the time they thought it was only the responsability of white people and white people alone that black slavery existed.

You see folks white and black alike are both responsible for slavery in this country. Until both sides face this fact openly and honestly it will take us forever to get beyond it. It is a vestage of a time when things were allowed and that was brought over to america unfortunately in it's early days.

Black americans, white people didn't capture your ancestors and force them into slavery. African tribes were far to strong for that. Give them credit. They were captured people sold by winning african sides of tribal warfare in africa into slavery.

White americans should never have readily bought these slaves as a source of cheap labor. They should have just known it was wrong in some basic way. The resentment of using people as slaves never goes away.

Have some compassion for the nutroots guys. They're desperate!

XD

Typical Benen tripe.

Herbert @ 81:

Janet @ 65:

Herbert @ 62:

Stranded @ 61:

Thanks! My point is made.

Republican troll

republicans have no sense of humor
If you won't vote for someone because of one word you were never going to anyway

When you cannot deal with the facts, you resort to name calling...

Calling me a Republican troll is useless, I have been out here for years and I vote based on issues, not political party. This site has always a been place for free (Liberal) thought and not for hero worship.

Herbert

If you genuinely think the ignorant trite you wrote about "typical confused half breeds" is somehow "enlightened" or "liberal" the you must be an ever bigger fool than I thought. At least trolls know that they are spewing crap...

brealistic @ 78:

I believe rasicm in all it's fashions should be brought out in the open and discussed especially it early history. A while ago I found out salvery was the responsibility of both white and black people alike. I could never figure out how white slave traders could get all the numbers of blacks that they did when faced with very strong African kings and tribes in africa. Then a few years ago I watched a show where a group of american blacks visited the african slave coast ports to revisit their heritage. They went to hear how the evil white slave traders put their people into bondage but came away with quite a different finding. The african tour guide told them that in actuality it was african tribal warfare that put their people into bondage.

African kings SOLD other african tribes that were captured in tribal warfare to these white traders. The white traders bought these captured africans directly from africans themselves. The group of american blacks broke down and wept at this fact they never knew. All the time they thought it was only the responsability of white people and white people alone that black slavery existed.

You see folks white and black alike are both responsible for slavery in this country. Until both sides face this fact openly and honestly it will take us forever to get beyond it. It is a vestage of a time when things were allowed and that was brought over to america unfortunately in it's early days.

Black americans, white people didn't capture your ancestors and force them into slavery. African tribes were far to strong for that. Give them credit. They were captured people sold by winning african sides of tribal warfare in africa into slavery.

White americans should never have readily bought these slaves as a source of cheap labor. They should have just known it was wrong in some basic way. The resentment of using people as slaves never goes away.

Fox news is making documentaries now?

I'll go one further, calling people typical is chilish name calling!

Herbert @ 87:

The Dude @ 84:

Herbert @ 81:

Janet @ 65:

When you cannot deal with the facts, you resort to name calling...

Calling me a Republican troll is useless, I have been out here for years and I vote based on issues, not political party. This site has always a been place for free (Liberal) thought and not for hero worship.

Herbert

If you genuinely think the ignorant trite you wrote about "typical confused half breeds" is somehow "enlightened" or "liberal" the you must be an ever bigger fool than I thought. At least trolls know that they are spewing crap...

The name calling is childish. It is merely a fact that calling people typical is condescending. Ask any woman, sports newsman or social psychologist...

*Yawn* yet another ignorant bigot trying to play the victim card...

Obviously you must be too mentally challenged to no see anything wrong with your line of thought, that went something like this:

You took a quote out of context, so you could bill Obama as a racist for typifying a group of people.
And to justify it, you typified people of mixed heritage, like Obama, as "confused."

So when other people call your peeps "typical" is condescending. But when you call other people "typical" is not?

There is nothing "typical" about you that is for sure; your intellectual disingenuity is coupled to a deafening cognitive dissonance in your case.

BaddogLtd @ 86:

brealistic @ 78:

I believe rasicm in all it's fashions should be brought out in the open and discussed especially it early history. A while ago I found out salvery was the responsibility of both white and black people alike. I could never figure out how white slave traders could get all the numbers of blacks that they did when faced with very strong African kings and tribes in africa. Then a few years ago I watched a show where a group of american blacks visited the african slave coast ports to revisit their heritage. They went to hear how the evil white slave traders put their people into bondage but came away with quite a different finding. The african tour guide told them that in actuality it was african tribal warfare that put their people into bondage.

African kings SOLD other african tribes that were captured in tribal warfare to these white traders. The white traders bought these captured africans directly from africans themselves. The group of american blacks broke down and wept at this fact they never knew. All the time they thought it was only the responsability of white people and white people alone that black slavery existed.

You see folks white and black alike are both responsible for slavery in this country. Until both sides face this fact openly and honestly it will take us forever to get beyond it. It is a vestage of a time when things were allowed and that was brought over to america unfortunately in it's early days.

Black americans, white people didn't capture your ancestors and force them into slavery. African tribes were far to strong for that. Give them credit. They were captured people sold by winning african sides of tribal warfare in africa into slavery.

White americans should never have readily bought these slaves as a source of cheap labor. They should have just known it was wrong in some basic way. The resentment of using people as slaves never goes away.

Fox news is making documentaries now?

[deleted.....use the b-quote......Site Monitor]

Prove that this isn't the truth and I'll retract the statement. I notice you didn't back your statement up with any facts.

Obama's people have become experts in reading into others comments to mine "negative campaigning" charges.

Bill Clinton the other day said, presumably about "Pastorgate:"

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country," Mr. Clinton said, "instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

A co-chairman of Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign, retired Gen. Merrill "Tony" McPeak, a former Air Force chief of staff, immediately compared Bill Clinton to Joseph McCarthy.

Only in Obama's camp, can the phrase, "...you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country..." turned into a questioning of one of those two people's patriotism, and a comparison to one of the most reviled figures in American history.

[ok,my bad........Site Monitor]

I caught a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
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Caught a little baby bumblebee.
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He stung me.

So, I...
squished a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because...
I...
Squished a little baby bumblebee.
Oh, he’s all over me.

So, I...
Eat a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because...
I...
Ate a little baby bumblebee.
Mmm. It tastes good.

I feel sick...

I'm puking up a little baby bumblebee
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
I'm puking up a little baby bumblebee
Eww...whatta mess.

I'm mopping up a little baby bumblebee
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
I'm mopping up a little baby bumblebee...

Bzzzz....

I caught a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because...
I...
Caught a little baby bumblebee.
Oh.
He stung me.

[ok Ys...my bad ok…..use the b-quote……Site Monitor]

I caught a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because…
I…
Caught a little baby bumblebee.
Oh.
He stung me.

So, I…
squished a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because…
I…
Squished a little baby bumblebee.
Oh, he’s all over me.

So, I…
Eat a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because…
I…
Ate a little baby bumblebee.
Mmm. It tastes good.

I feel sick…

I’m puking up a little baby bumblebee
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
I’m puking up a little baby bumblebee
Eww…whatta mess.

I’m mopping up a little baby bumblebee
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
I’m mopping up a little baby bumblebee…

Bzzzz….

I caught a little baby bumblebee.
Won’t my mommy, be so proud of me.
Why?
Because…
I…
Caught a little baby bumblebee.
Oh.
He stung me.

Btw, that documentary I quoted was from a PBS special. Not exactly a right wing new organization is it. Actually this same thing happen quite frequently as the african guide pointed out in the special. Apparently it is a huge misconception by most tourists but the african tour guides that work at the slave demarcation centers are quick to correct it..

The Dude @ 90:

Herbert @ 87:

The Dude @ 84:

Herbert @ 81:

If you genuinely think the ignorant trite you wrote about "typical confused half breeds" is somehow "enlightened" or "liberal" the you must be an ever bigger fool than I thought. At least trolls know that they are spewing crap...

The name calling is childish. It is merely a fact that calling people typical is condescending. Ask any woman, sports newsman or social psychologist...

*Yawn* yet another ignorant bigot trying to play the victim card...

Obviously you must be too mentally challenged to no see anything wrong with your line of thought, that went something like this:

You took a quote out of context, so you could bill Obama as a racist for typifying a group of people.
And to justify it, you typified people of mixed heritage, like Obama, as "confused."

So when other people call your peeps "typical" is condescending. But when you call other people "typical" is not?

There is nothing "typical" about you that is for sure; your intellectual disingenuity is coupled to a deafening cognitive dissonance in your case.

Yes, and your taking me out of context is causation to engender multiple hypotheses regarding your actual disingenuous intent, but the deafening cognitive dissonance is earnest scribble.

ENOUGHCRAP @ 93:

anneyhussein @ 59:

Herbert @ 57:

I heard Obama's "typical white person" explanation and now I will never vote for him at all. The word "typical" is a general categorization like "Them" or "They". A typical whatever is just plain wrong, We are all unique in this world. I believe that a typical multi-racial like Obama is probably confused by living in two worlds. One of a white grandmother who was racially motivated by fear and another of a minister racially motivated by anger. Moreover, if my Pastor incited anger, I would leave the church.

Would you have left a synagogue that "incited anger" about Nazism and the Holocaust?

evidently you haven't heard it turns out that word s credited to the pastor were actually him quoting a white diplomat named edward peck to make a point on racism.this is verified by listening to more than the few seconds the,ve been playing. its about three minutes in. so now what.

Yes, I'd read that. But isn't it odd that if a white person says it, it isn't racist, just if a Black preacher does? Boggles the mind. I still think those who say that Obama's Black preacher "ignited anger", they wouldn't say the same thing if they (were Jewish and) worshipped in a synagogue where the rabbi spoke forcefully against Nazism and the Holocaust.

So now what?

Well, to reiterate another post... I think people need to start digging into the stereotypes that lead to racism, to understand where they originated and why. That's the first step. Then uproot "soft" stereotypes, the kind easily amenable to change through exposure of those we may have prejudices about. Then tackle the difficult ones -- the racism on both sides born of trauma. At the same time, address American classism, which feeds into racism but isn't always synonymous with it.

ysbaddaden @ 97:

brealistic @ 95:

ENOUGHCRAP @ 91:

brealistic @ 4:
wasn't that in the heart of his speech that some choose to cherry pick to get themselves off the hook.

I have been on both sides of that street. I once worked in a afro-american community center and there was a cute little white blond haired girl with real real curly hair that ran around and played all day long but no one ever bothered a bit with her whatsoever.

Come to find out it was the child of the center director daughter that choose to marry a white guy. The little girl looked exactly like Shirly Temple but she was totally ostracized by everyone there because she didn't look black....

Racism cuts both ways as I said..

I remember once finding a current driver's license of a black guy. I saw from the address thereon, that he lived down the street from my apartments in another batch of apartments. Not being sure how he might react to a stranger knocking on his door, I took it to his complex. And as soon as I got out of my car people were staring pretty out-right hostile at me. I took the card to the manager's office, not the guy's personal unit, and the manager who was also black was treating me with all kinds of suspicion.

I never could figure out what that was all about, but within a couple of years the whole place was closed down for being a crack house, although it didn't have the stereotyped appearance of one.

Well, I've been subjected to suspicion and a closing-off, too, but it wasn't because of race. Not long after I moved to an isolated part of the southeast, I took my car to the only gas station within miles that did emissions testing, which I had to have to renew my registration. The owner was very short and rude to me, which puzzled me greatly. Then a neighbor pulled in and listened to some of the conversation. He pulled the guy aside and pretty soon they both came back laughing. Turns out, the owner thought I was a State inspector trying to catch him fudging on the emissions test.

So you can experience hostility and rejection for lots of reasons.

Hey let's just start a topic where everyone can claim expertise in areas where they'll never have any experience!
Straight people can tell gays how great it is to be gay and how there's absolutely no discrimation. Any new laws are just a grab for 'special' treatment.
Whites can tell blacks how they SHOULD feel about their ancestors being bought and sold...damn happy to be here!
Men can tell women to either have that damn baby or keep their mouths and their legs closed.

Or we could just mosey over to a Conservative site and join the discussions already in progress....

BaddogLtd @ 108:

Hey let's just start a topic where everyone can claim expertise in areas where they'll never have any experience!
Straight people can tell gays how great it is to be gay and how there's absolutely no discrimation. Any new laws are just a grab for 'special' treatment.
Whites can tell blacks how they SHOULD feel about their ancestors being bought and sold...damn happy to be here!
Men can tell women to either have that damn baby or keep their mouths and their legs closed.

Or we could just mosey over to a Conservative site and join the discussions already in progress....

How about we start with the truth from the beging and see where it leads to from there? I remember seeing something about all the evidence in the "columbine school shooting" being locked away for twenty years by a judge because it was thought that somehow the dead shooters would benefit from this evidence being aired to the public! Gee there dead. I don't believe they will benefit to much now...

Never mind that by investigating all the evidence we just might learn to avoid a repeat of the incident that has been happening over and over since then.

Sure lets just put our collective heads in the sand as we always do...

"Whites can tell blacks how they SHOULD feel about their ancestors being bought and sold…damn happy to be here!

Actually it was black africans guides telling black tourists from america looking into their black ancestory exactly how they became slaves. No whites were involved whatsoever.

ENOUGHCRAP @ 109:

I started with a little self examination then i did what you are suggested and started digging.And what I have found is that context is important. And I will research any snippet or video fully before judging. Someone needs to remind the media of the words of Mr. Joseph Welch to joe mccarthy "you have done enough" "Do you have no sense of decency". They took a few seconds of tape out of context and labeled an innocent man a hate monger. But the blame also rests with those who didn't do our homework and allowed it to continue .

Yes, in the case of Rev Wright, many people reacted instantly and didn't look into the context of what he said.

And probably most of us are aware that the news media rarely researches anything before making announcements, and when they compress the news into soundbites, we're often made fools of later. I think it's a good place to start, to slow down on reacting what we're fed by irresponsible entities and get the whole story before we conclude anything. I think I'll slow down my pace of making conclusions, too, with this lesson learned.

OtOH, while I'm quite comfortable with suspended judgment many times, I know a lot of people can't stand not coming down on one side of an issue or not for very long. Some people won't do it until they realize it's in their best interests to do that.

BaddogLtd @ 115:

brealistic @ 112:

"Whites can tell blacks how they SHOULD feel about their ancestors being bought and sold…damn happy to be here!

Actually it was black africans guides telling black tourists from america looking into their black ancestory exactly how they became slaves. No whites were involved whatsoever.

My apologies...you've really opened my brealistic eyes. Those damn Africans are tricky. Enacting Jim Crow laws, the Dredd Scott decision. The lynchings, the Tuskegee experiments...all to confuse us fine upstanding white citizens that we are somehow repsonsible for their misfortune. Oh they are clever. And patient!

Not only that. They voluntarily enslaved themselves! The colonists were FORCED to take slaves to work their lands. I've read all about that, haven't you?

Actually Arabs were heavily involved in the slave trade too.

Interesting thing though, is if a slave converted to Islam, he had to be freed because it was forbidded for one Islamic person to own another Islamic person.

Not like in America where slaves sermons were along the lines of Thou shalt not steal the massah's chicken, thou shalt obey your massahs orders.

They weren't even given proper marital rites, but jumped a broom.

I am pointing this out because I believe this fiction has to be addressed eventially. Does it make what whites did to blacks when they got here right. No, whites who mistreated blacks are as guilty now as they have ever been. It doesn't absolve them of any responsability in their treatment of blacks just because blacks sold them slaves. Whites should have never took advantage of this slave trade. I just believe most blacks deserve to know that "the evil devils' were also their own countryman that helped to set their feet into bondage. Of course you can believe the fictionalized version if it makes you feel better as I said..

look into it yourself and form your own opinions.

BaddogLtd @ 119:

anneyhussein @ 116:

BaddogLtd @ 115:

brealistic @ 112:

My apologies...you've really opened my brealistic eyes. Those damn Africans are tricky. Enacting Jim Crow laws, the Dredd Scott decision. The lynchings, the Tuskegee experiments...all to confuse us fine upstanding white citizens that we are somehow repsonsible for their misfortune. Oh they are clever. And patient!

Not only that. They voluntarily enslaved themselves! The colonists were FORCED to take slaves to work their lands. I've read all about that, haven't you?

I didn't read it...but I 'think' I saw a documentary on it somewhere.
And what about my great grandparents who were forced to drink from 'whites only' water fountains? You never hear there story...

Hell, I have heard that this since I was a kid..! What I never heard was how strong black nations allowed their people to be abscounded with by the thousands! It always seemed like utter nonesense to me. Now I know better..

This country seems to need these popular national fictions though. No one ever want to get to the root of any problem be it... "Calombine' or... "We never torture"...."we always are the good guys" or we always believe in human rights.

The only problem I have with Obama is his nonexistant experiance in foreign policy and everything else in running a county. I am not 'charmed" by him as many obviously are for some nebulous reasoning I don't see.

I would have voted for Colin Powell if bush hadn't used him as a scape goat to push forward his agenda for the war in Iraq. He ruined his governmental career totally. I think Colin Powell would have made a great president..

Kathy in St. louis @ 125:

brealistic @ 120:

I am pointing this out because I believe this fiction has to be addressed eventially. Does it make what whites did to blacks when they got here right. No, whites who mistreated blacks are as guilty now as they have ever been. It doesn't absolve them of any responsability in their treatment of blacks just because blacks sold them slaves. Whites should have never took advantage of this slave trade. I just believe most blacks deserve to know that "the evil devils' were also their own countryman that helped to set their feet into bondage. Of course you can believe the fictionalized version if it makes you feel better as I said..

Interesting concept, if slavery was carried on for a couple of years by a few people. However, it was institutionalized in our society for 200 years. Many of the decisions that our Founding Fathers made were to keep slave states and free states from battling and a very fragile union from being ripped apart. You can look it up in a book called, "Don't Know Much About History" or one called, "Lies My Teacher Told Me", both excellent texts that give you the information that the Texas Board of Education refused to have in the textbooks you had in school. That way, you can find out what really went on in this country since it was founded.

actually I am a straight A history major from a major college and one of my interests just happen to be the american revolution and the american government at the time before and after. I am well aware of all this already and have been for before you were born.

I believe you therefore already know where your condecending attitude can be put don't you or should I be more specific...?

Obama is running on a non-existent experience / "Charm Campaign". I don't find the fact he is half black/half white relevent at all to being a president. Especially since he called his grandmother "a tipical white person"....

I fail to be charmed by his speeches. To me they are just more fluffy retoric. I have had enough retoric from GWB to last a lifetime.

I want someone as president who isn't full of hot air for once..

Herbert @ 127:

Kathy in St. louis @ 123:

One of the most interesting aspect of Amiercan thinking that has not changed since the Civil War is that if a person has any black blood at all, that person is considered a black. So, never mind that Barack Obama is 50% white and is, therefore, speaking as much as a white person as a black person. And if he is speaking as a white person, then what he has said about his whte grandmother is just a fact, not a racist comment.

This man was, for the most part, raised by white folks, which should qualify him to speak about white society as well as black society. So why don't we take this unique opportunity to LISTEN UP!

I have two questions:

1. What is Black blood?

and

2. Why can't Obama's Grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, speak for herself?

Regards

Excuse me for misspeaking. I should have said black ancestry. I thought his grandmother was deceased, but I could be wrong about that.

BaddogLtd @ 133:

brealistic @ 126:

The only problem I have with Obama is his nonexistant experiance in foreign policy and everything else in running a county. I am not 'charmed" by him as many obviously are for some nebulous reasoning I don't see.

I would have voted for Colin Powell if bush hadn't used him as a scape goat to push forward his agenda for the war in Iraq. He ruined his governmental career totally. I think Colin Powell would have made a great president..

That's too funny! I remember Collin Powell being asked if he thought being black would stand in the way of running for office and his reply: "Not necessarily...I'm not THAT black"
I wonder what the talking heads would make of that....

On the "what shade of black am I" standard he was right. BTW , black people go by "shades standards" too...

brealistic @ 134:

BaddogLtd @ 133:

brealistic @ 126:

The only problem I have with Obama is his nonexistant experiance in foreign policy and everything else in running a county. I am not 'charmed" by him as many obviously are for some nebulous reasoning I don't see.

I would have voted for Colin Powell if bush hadn't used him as a scape goat to push forward his agenda for the war in Iraq. He ruined his governmental career totally. I think Colin Powell would have made a great president..

That's too funny! I remember Collin Powell being asked if he thought being black would stand in the way of running for office and his reply: "Not necessarily...I'm not THAT black"
I wonder what the talking heads would make of that....

On the "what shade of black am I" standard he was right. BTW , black people go by "shades standards" too...

"BTW, black people go by shades standards" too" Wow...you know so much about the strange and interesting habits of black people. I defer to your expertise and exit this conversation before my jaw gets any closer to the floor.
Good day Madam.

obama's remark "was to emphasize the important truth that whites, including his elderly grandmother, are slowly winning the fight to purge their hearts of poisonous prejudices."
i actually have no problem at all with that statement. obama's white grandmother *might very well have held some white racist views "given her upbringing, times, and cultural environment*. you are what you eat. what burns my cheese and what obama himself has failed to realize is that he equally could have asked the same question of his black grandparent who lived in the states and it would have been equally valid...but he did not.
which raises a whole 'nother bunch of questions about the issue both about obama and how far we've progressed ourselves as a nation with race issues.

BaddogLtd @ 136:

brealistic @ 134:

BaddogLtd @ 133:

brealistic @ 126:

That's too funny! I remember Collin Powell being asked if he thought being black would stand in the way of running for office and his reply: "Not necessarily...I'm not THAT black"
I wonder what the talking heads would make of that....

On the "what shade of black am I" standard he was right. BTW , black people go by "shades standards" too...

"BTW, black people go by shades standards" too" Wow...you know so much about the strange and interesting habits of black people. I defer to your expertise and exit this conversation before my jaw gets any closer to the floor.
Good day Madam.

Actually this is the absolute truth and it totally surprised me being a ignorant white person in a all black community center. I worked as a photographer for that center I mentioned and it was on a very tight budget and I had to use the photo paper that they had available which had very limited black and white hues. When one of the guys saw how dark he had come out in his prints he said.."Can you make me a little less chocolate?" That cracked me up! What I said back was "sorry the camera never lies.." :)

Now go pick up your jaw as this probably shocked you to death. I had to laugh when I heard it though. If you have any stories in the opposite vain of a black working with all white people I would love to hear them.

I promise not to be condesending as you are..

The best characterization of Obama's speech was given by a commentator on CNN who described it as "a gift to America". It is difficult to expect that the impact of the speech would be fully appreciated in the current environment because in the middle of an election campaign, people might want to moderate their reactions so that they might not be thought partisan.
There are those who would continue to denounce Obama in spite of his speech clearly articulating the issues involved in racism in America, and they will always find enough reasons to so. For those people, we should not vilify them, but try to understand their concern. Some people are racist without meaning to be. Others are racist without being aware of their bias. Personally, I have been subjected to what might be considered racial injustice, intended or unintended. I am an immigrant from Africa. About five years ago, I was in a shopping mall when I was approached by a white male, who handed me some leftovers burgers he had just finished eating. I was confused, embarrassed and bitter. Now, I am an attorney and do consider that I am doing relatively well. The question I have not been able to answer is whether he gave me the food out of charitable intent or out of spite. The next question is, "why me?" For someone like that, it is obvious we look at racism from different perspectives, charitable intent versus stereotyping.
There are other issues to understand in the context of this dialogue. Many people are in denial about their racial inclination. When confronted with the fact, like being forced to acknowledge it, rather than face reality, they turn against the person responsible for unmasking them. Again this is a natural reaction and does not necessarily imply that they are evil. Obama's speech is just but a beginning. We have not heard the last of it. The most bitter antagonists would be the conservative media who never imagine that he would be so candid and open about this discussion. They would be disappointed that this type of dialogue did not emanate from their camp and would abandon the content and context of the discussion and instead focus on the mundane. We should be careful not to be caught in their pranks.

Obama is a total fake. I think his arrogance allows him to present himself at any given time as WHATEVER it takes to get what he wants.

if Green Men were "in", then he would be green. He has no loyalty (grandmother), he has NO character (Rezko) and he is not particularly bright (he appeared impressed that Ted Kennedy endorsed him).

All you media folk can try and sell whatever new positive twist you can come up with on this guy, but AMERICA will show him and you that we don't like liars and manipulative, insincere people, especially ones who are still in Kindergarden.

BD

anneyhussein @ 12:

...One of the most racist men I've ever known was a white boss who was sorely conflicted by race. He was really racist -- blacks and white should never marry, blacks weren't as intelligent as whites, they were more "primitive", good at some sports but not college material, etc. Every single racist stereotype had a home in his thinking.

YET, he and his wife had adopted a black child, a boy, and he often referred to this as proof that he was not racist. He was MOST anxious to prove it. (Nobody had any respect for him so we often fed his just-uttered racist remark back to him and advised him that it was racist). I don't think I've EVER felt as sorry for any child as that one, though I never met him.

One can only imagine what distorted & negative messages he gave this poor Black kid day in and day out.

Kathy in St. louis @ 123:

One of the most interesting aspect of Amiercan thinking that has not changed since the Civil War is that if a person has any black blood at all, that person is considered a black. So, never mind that Barack Obama is 50% white and is, therefore, speaking as much as a white person as a black person. And if he is speaking as a white person, then what he has said about his whte grandmother is just a fact, not a racist comment.

This man was, for the most part, raised by white folks, which should qualify him to speak about white society as well as black society. So why don't we take this unique opportunity to LISTEN UP!

No, Kathy. These people all riled up over his use of the word 'typical' as a descriptor for his white grandmother are too caught up in seeing Obama's brown skin to REMEMBER that he is bi-racial. They're also too busy projecting their own racist leanings onto Obama.

brealistic @ 126:

The only problem I have with Obama is his nonexistant experiance in foreign policy and everything else in running a county. I am not 'charmed" by him as many obviously are for some nebulous reasoning I don't see.

I would have voted for Colin Powell if bush hadn't used him as a scape goat to push forward his agenda for the war in Iraq. He ruined his governmental career totally. I think Colin Powell would have made a great president..

Yes. I agree. Colin Powell should have been our first black president, if we are to have one now. Thanks your comment.