This Week: Chuck Hagel Says The Surge Isn't Working
By Nicole Belle Sunday Mar 23, 2008 3:50pm
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Chuck Hagel appeared on This Week with George Stephanopoulos to inject a rare respite from Republican spin and say that the surge hasn't worked, much to Stephanopoulos's disbelief:
GS: Now as you point out, the surge has not yielded all the political progress that everybody wanted, but clearly there have been fewer American casualties and the massacres have ended. You were wrong about that, weren’t you?
CH: No, I wasn’t wrong about that. We’ve lost over 900 dead Americans since the surge. Now if you want to dismiss that as “success,” that’ll be your interpretation. The fact is, in the end, all that matters is not a military tactical victory. Of course, when you flood the zone with American firepower, which is superior to anything in the world, we have the best soldiers, the best led, the best equipped (Nicole: the best equipped?) ….
GS: But you didn’t think that would work at the time.
CH: That’s not what I said. That’s not what I said. I said what you will do is you will further bog yourselves down in a situation, making the Iraqis more dependent on you, making it more difficult to get out. In the end, you’re not going to be any closer to a political reconciliation. If all this is working so well, George, then why are the Bush administration now talking about keeping brigades in there at 140,000, larger than what we had when the surge started? Why did Gen. Petraeus say last week—Gen. Petraeus—that there has not been commensurate political progress? That in the end is all that’s going to matter anyway. What the surge was all about, George, was trying to buy time for the Iraqis. They’ve not used that time very well. There’s no question, just like taking Saddam Hussein out, we were going to do that, we were going to do that probably dispatch him pretty quickly. That was never the issue. The issue is what happens after he’s gone.
So now George Stephanopoulos is selling the "surge is working" propaganda? *sigh* Note that neither man made mention of the exponentially higher rates of death for Iraqis (and they're not all "insurgents") or the millions displaced. I don't know about you, but I'm struggling to find any measure of "success" that can be claimed.
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Bush says that when this is over, the sacrifice of all the lives will be worth it. That the deaths of over a million people will not be in vain.
first?
StevePam @ 2:
Nopers
"We’ve lost over 900 dead Americans since the surge."
Can't find them anywhere.
Why doesn't someone ask WHAT the surge is working ON??
Which of the so-called benchmarks has it worked to accomplish?
George: “But, but, but, but, …. “
Hagel is like the last republic that has a lick of sense. Why didn't this prick run for Pres?
Thats 4,000 commas friends, Bush does the commas (that is kills lots of folks), Gawd Almighty does the periods.
Seems to me there is a good metaphor to illustrate why the surge is foolishness.
If you have a high crime rate city,and you then put a cop 24/7 on every street corner in that city, crime will plummet. But no one would characterize that plummeting of crime as a success.
That success is only in play as the surge is in play. So, if you plan on a 100 year surge, then I guess yes, it's a success. But one day after those 100 years, it's back to chaos unless you actually deal with the issues involved. Something that even Petrause has admitted has not happened.
For a five-year catalog of John McCain's erroneous statements on Iraq, see:
"Forever Wrong: Five Years of John McCain on Iraq."
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. So, the clock is working.
George Stephanopoulos is just another one of those confused, former Clinton aides who is a Democrat only when it is convenient for him....just like Hillary.
From the Office Of The Press Secretary June 15Th 2006:
Q Tony, American deaths in Iraq have reached 2,500. Is there any response or reaction from the President on that?
MR. SNOW: It's a number, and every time there's one of these 500 benchmarks people want something.
casper46 @ 7:
I don't know about that. He's just another hack using the Iraqis as the excuse for violence in Iraq...."oh but the Iraqis didn't step up" "Oh but the Iraqis are failing to..." blah, blah, blah..........invade, kill, maim, torture, and then blame the country you invaded. That's some fucked up thinking. I guess rapists aren't to blame, it's the victims.
If you recall, the "surge" was Bush's answer to the loud calls to end the war and bring the troops home that finally got us a Democratic House. Not a month after the election of '06 came the Iraq Study Group's recommendation to begin bringing the troops home. That's when Bush got the idea of the "surge". Instead of ending the damn thing and doing what the grownups suggested, he made it more lethal for pure political reasons. He may have said the "surge" was to buy time for the Iraqis but what he meant was it would give HIM more time until it was no longer his responsibility. The reason for the "war" i.e., occupation, in the first place was to get a Republican congress in 2002 (Senate vote on the war, Oct., 2002), then keep it going into 2004 so he could FINALLY be "legitimately" elected. His saying today that no one died in vain is another of his lies. Whatever the fucker says, the truth is the exact opposite. EVERYTHING THIS WHORE ADMINISTRATION DOES IS POLITICAL: for their friends, against their perceived enemies.
Stephanopoulos has become the biggest douche bag on Sunday - worse even then FOX. He's a jerk to his guests, he's so glib you just want to cave in his phony smile, and he's become yet one more run of the mill right-wing stenographers.
I can't even stand to look at him anymore.
"We’ve lost over 900 dead Americans since the surge."
Hey idiot, we lost 900 LIVING Americans!! The "dead" Americans are all still in this country, sipping their kool-aid while watching Fox Bullshit News. The "dead" Americans are hanging around in Washington like you do, collecting huge salaries and perks while doing NOTHING to stop this madness.
From the beginning of the "surge" did anyone believe the administration would claim anything but success? There is one way to prevent even one more soldier from dying in this war and that's to bring them all home right now. McCain will keep them over there and they'll keep getting killed along with innocent Iraqis. Simply tell the Iraqis that we have done all we can for them and now it's time for them to make the changes they want in their country.
Gas prices approaching $4.00 per gallon.
Haliburton stock up 3000%.
Sound like the surge is working just the way they planned it.
McCain had it right when he said it was whack-a-mole. With more soldiers over there whacking moles, more moles are staying underground. The reason Iraqi on Iraqi violence is down is because Sunnis have fled Shiite neighborhoods, and visa versa.
This reminds me of Vietnam when on "January 23, 1973 - President Nixon announces that an agreement has been reached which will 'end the war and bring peace with honor.'" But then the thorny issue of getting un-entangled without the whole situation unraveling remained. Same with Iraq - McCain has no clue - wants to piss money and blood down this toilet for 100 years.
So, that is the issue to be decided this fall. Do we want to spend money and troops for the next hundred years? Do we want to institute the draft, so that we have readiness for any contingency that develops? Because, if we don't, then it becomes a matter of how best to cut our losses.
All this while the world awaits Hagel's presidential endorsement of John McCain, a man that will ensure the perpetual continuation of Bush's ruinous surge, plus an invasion of Iran (if that doesn't happen by election time).
You know Hagel, why don't you just endorse McCain now. Like a lot of Americans, I am sick of waiting for any Republican to stand up to his own party's corruption and incompetence. We The People are coming in November to kick your asses out of power, and not even Diebold will be able to steal this one.
"Simply tell the Iraqis that we have done all we can for them and now it’s time for them to make the changes they want in their country."
They've already told us they want the U.S. troops out. Maybe we didn't hear them right.
Lets see now:
Iraqi government benchmarks accomplished. 1000+
Democrat controlled congress benchmarks accomplished. 0
Hagel wanted to be invited into the presidential race, he wasn't so now he's like the whimpering children of the democrat party.
Just remember, of all the things any liberal democrat knows happened, 99% of it never happened. Like the way they can stretch 60,000 or so deaths in Iraq to over a million. I guess you studied 'math' under the french John Karry, if you don't study you'll end up stuck in Irak. Just one more question, How does it feel to have BDS progress to total insanity? Actually another, can you hear the breeze as in flows unobstructed in one ear and out the other?
Godfry Daniel @ 17:
A-motherfucking-men! All this splurge was meant to do was to stave off mobs with pitchforks and torches demanding impeachment. Trolls, tell me how this is all Clinton's fault. C'mon, do your trolly best to tell me how this is anything other than a HUGE CLUSTERFUCK. Welcome to the NEW DARK AGES, courtesy of your republiclown president.
Scrapiron @ 23:
It's DemocratIC party, you bonehead.
I almost hate Tweety, Pumpkinhead, and George Stephanoplas as much as I hate Bush, Cheney, and Pelosi.
ConcernedCanuck @ 14:
I'm not sure what his take on the war originally was, but he has been pretty vocally against it the last couple years. Especially the surge.
"Democrat controlled congress benchmarks accomplished. 0"
And WHO keeps standing in the way?????? One Republican president.....not naming any names....might rhyme with tush.....
It just might be that our soldiers presence there could be a large part of the problem. Maybe some sort of peace might be sorted out if we were not in the middle of everything. I imagine there is a great deal of resentment toward our soldiers by the Iraqis and with good reason. We are occupying and for the most part controlling their country. We have blown the shit out of their world and our being there is a continuous reminder of that.
I know Hagel's on thin ice but still, on those occasions when I here a Republican NOT lie, I'm SHOCKED.
Dale @ 25:
He's obviously a Republicker.
jimbo92107 @ 21:
Thats what I like to hear!
Strength in numbers....even lobbyists/MSM can't stop us!
Nicole,
One evident measure of surge success is that everyone in the MSM is speaking of the surge as being "successful". It's too bad we has to send so many additional troops and funds to Iraq to achieve this successful PR surge.
has = has
here = hear (@30)
by typing comprehension is just about shot
Scrapiron @ 23:
Corrections:
1. French is a proper noun. Therefore it should be capitalized.
2. It's Democratic party.
3. Correct spelling is John Kerry.
4. Correct spelling is Iraq.
If you're going to call people children for disagreeing with you, the least you could do is come off sounding smarter than a 5th grader you twunt.
Scrapiron @ 23:
Nice job minimizing the number of deaths. Republiclowns never seem to get upset when dark-skinned people die. I guess it is their status as upright moral Christians that allows such a cavalier attitude. The war, Katrina, the tsunami, Darfur, and on and on, they don't give a fuckm but they all wet their pants at the thought of legal abortion.
dark times indeed.
StevePam @ 5:
Surge of profits for Halliburton, Kellogg Root, Blackwater, Rayethon, etc. Surge of extra time to hand the occupation off to the next president. Surge of propaganda.
Mike @ 24:
This is more McCains fault by far!!
He was for cut and run then,he thought we should leave Bin Laden alone.Why didn't he want to "surge" or "stay the course"and avoid Sept.11th.
Endorsed by a president who was given ample warning about the upcoming Bin Laden attack and did nothing.
Most Republicans were for cut and run in Tora-Bora!
This war is immoral. Chaney had the balls to say of the 4000 troop deaths," They were volunteers." The fact that people are saying the surge is a success is wrong. Have the Iraqi politicians done anything? NO! How many times are we the American people going to hear,"Another six months". Enough already. Bush is buying time so he can dump this on the next president. A true coward indeed.
casper46 @ 27:
I think he was always against it, but his using of Iraqis as an excuse for violence and bloodshed, even though that wasn't happening BEFORE the US invaded just ticks me off. Hillary uses this same tortured logic. Obama does as well. Blame the victim. "If they would just stop killing each other we could go home. If they would just deal with all these problems we created we could go home. If they would just admit we are the greatest, kiss our feet, and give us that damn US oil, we'd go home."
Yep. But McCrazy just came back from the Green Zone and everything was rosy! When are these dolts gonna book a vacation in Iraq, I heard the locals love Americans dead ones. When are all the wingnuts going to book their flight, vacation season is just around the corner and who wouldn't want to visit the cradle of civilization? Or what is left of it. Don't let the depleted uranium bother you!
StevePam @ 38:
StevePam @ 38:
OOPS forgot my link.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8TFKXHiefs
He was for cut and run then,he thought we should leave Bin Laden alone.Why didn’t he want to “surge” or “stay the course”and avoid Sept.11th.
Remember the bazaar McInsane went to in 2007. Well the violence was to bad this time they couldn't risk it. What a success!
Blue Lensman @ 30:
Yeah, Hagel has been on the bush shit-list for over 18 months, every since Chuck
gave a strong anti-Iraq surge speech on the floor of the U.S. Senate. In fact, shortly
thereafter, Hagel gave notice that he will not seek re-election for his seat, but is
retiring....I have followed Hagel's comments/speeches rather closely for over a year
and tho some of you may not believe it, he is one of the good Republicans still in the
Senate.
I posted this on another thread already, but I can't get over the cockiness and pure evil of this man.
Doggiebobo @ 44:
But he still blames Iraqis for the mess, as do most in Washington including Dems and that is just pathetic. They didn't invade themselves. They never asked for help. Only the corrupt Iraqi criminals did that. Now, everyone in Warshington is blaming the Iraqis for the "occupation" and violence lasting this long. Nothing to do with over 100,000 foreign troops on your soil. Nope.
The surge was not to give the Iraqis a breather, it was to change the dynamic in Iraq so that our troops could come home. No troops coming home equals surge not working.
They're all so terrified of mentioning that civilians are dying or that civilian lives IN IRAQ are worth anything. They need to stop buying into all the hatemongering republican crap.
ConcernedCanuck @ 46:
I most certainly am not defending (No Way Jose) our invasion and occupation of Iraq,
however, it is a fact that the current, semi-Government of Iraq, is one of the main
reasons why Iraq has met fully only 4 of the 18 "benchmarks" established. It is a disfunctional government torn with much strife between the Shiites and Sunnis and
who is to blame for that ill-advised makeup...WE the US of A. It all goes back to
the bumbling/stumbling job that Paul Bremer did when he was appt'd head of the CPA
(Coaliation Provisional Authority) by bush lite. A more incompetent person could not
be found on this earth; yet being a cronie of bush, he got the job and screwed it up
from the very beginning. So, I agree, it is not the Iraqis people who are responsible,
but the Iraqis Gov. we put in place and have allowed to dilly-dally with human lives.
Doggiebobo @ 49:
I wasn't implying you did and if I gave you that impression I apologize. Hagel is one of the few decent Repubs, but if you take away his opposition to Iraq (and his stupid blaming Iraqis), you end up with nothing more than another Repub. His only attraction to anyone is his opposition to the surge. It just gets hard on the ears listening to both parties blaming the Iraqis for everything that has happened to them.
Newbie @ 16:
Seriously, are these talking heads bought off, or is brain damagedness a prerequisite of the job?
Dale @ 22:
They are talking to the usual deaf ears.
If at first your surge doesn't work......get someone else to do it! <a href="http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_wants_Britain_to_lead_surge_in_s_03232008.html"Like the British.
BTW: A 'surge' that doesn't end is an escalation!
DAMN......Try the British!
George S will do anything for a buck. . . .
"would you like to buy my mother. . . she is a virgin !"
Very successful for the military industrial complex and anyone who is investing in those companies. It's also good for the Syrian prostitute industry as there's a glut of Iraqi women on the market, so it's really cheap to get a good screw in Syria. Ummm...so yeah it's good by some metric. A while ago it was something that would be prosecuted as war profiteering. But not today. No this is the new U.S.A. where we have more freedom in how we make a profit on other people's misery and loss.
And still just enough Democrats continue to shit can resolution of this mess in order to keep it going. As in, most of those fuckers continue to vote to fund this asinine venture. Every single one of these people who voted for the war, Democrat and Republican alike, should be given a lawyer and tried for war crimes.
The surge has unravelled.
It's over.
Hagel is an absolute must, somewhere, in whose's ever administration. He's to smart not to be used. I live in Nebraska, voted against him twice, and sorry I did. Nelson(d) is a prick.
Why not call it what it really has been. The scourge.
It never was a "surge." It was an escalation of a war that was illegal from the outset.
Now I hear otherwise rational friends say, "Well, we broke Iraq, so we need to stay and fix it." What lunacy. It does not logically follow that because one is capable of breaking something that one is therefore also capable of fixing it. If I hit you with my car, and break your leg, your hip, and a couple of your ribs, are you therefore going to expect me to be your doctor? You might insist that I pay for your medical care, but not that I set your broken bones and serve as your physical therapist.
Iraq needs a legitimate government. The Iraqis need to decide if they are one nation or several nations. The U.S. cannot be an "honest broker" in that process. We cannot fix Iraq, not matter how hard our troops may try. In fact, we are killing the patient.
I've always thought Hagel was a pretty straight-shooter, and I've seen him called a RINO by some in his beloved party. Gotta believe he didn't run for president because he wouldn't sell out like McCain did to get the party behind him. McCain learned the hard way in 2000 that it was the only way to win, and he completely caved.
Schmagel wants to party like it's 1969.
Scrap metal for brains wrote:
Only 1000+? Come on; if you're going to fabricate benchmarks, you can do better than that. Why not count the number of heartbeats and breaths the members of the Iraqi parliament have taken since 2005? I'm sure that's cumulatively in the millions.
Also, the Democratic Congress did pass a minimum wage increase. It won't completely put an end to fiefdom, but at least it'll make sure your mom is well-compensated for her services; she can even afford a chiropractor to help her with that TMJ pain.
I’m mesmerized about how easily US Gov can frame the debate even among people as C&L's and hide the fundamental issues behind pettily surge, blunders, AQ, etc, etc. The fundamental question is: was the Iraq war legal? To my knowledge there are strong opinions including that of the former UN Secretary-General that the war was illegal. And when one considers the ability of US to twist arms all these amount to a serious claim.
If you all agree on the legality of the war then the surge is another chapter so carry on, otherwise please bring the illegality front and center. Talking about how the surge works or it doesn’t leaves people assume that there is no legal issue with this war which is highest consequential fact.
Pace
I pretty much disagree with Hagel on every social issue imaginable, and I would not argue that he is the reincarnation of Lincoln, or even McKinley or Eisenhower ... but he has more credibility than any other Republican in the Senate right now. He has been speaking out against the invasion of Iraq for years now, and has done so MORE consistently, and MORE passionately, than ANY DEMOCRAT in the Senate.
He has also stepped up a couple of times to decry the rhetorical tools of the administration of labeling dissent "treasonous" or "emboldening the enemy."
Hagel has my respect.
Those who are dismissing him as just another Republican trying to cash in need to research the man a little.
He has some serious flaws - he is partially invested in one of the companies that makes the shitty voting machines, and he is socially slightly to the right of Atilla the Hun - but he seems to be someone genuinely willing to hold his party's feet to the fire for his principles, and that is a somewhat remarkable trait in a politician these days. Kind of like a Republican version of Feingold.
Some good Hagel moments.
He's not perfect, but he's pretty damn good.
Obama/Hagel? That sure would diffuse the Repugnicant fervor.. Joe Biden for State Department, John Edwards for Attorney General? Hillary Clinton for New York Senator? It's all good!
The corporate media pays it's liars very well. Why do you think they have so many willing to lie so quick and without shame.
People will do strange things when there is enough money in it.
Including selling out their country and friends.
The Surge (TM) is working! I know cause I saw it on the TVs!
fuck chuck.
erstwhile fascist has an opinion on the war.
whoopdeefuckingdoo
Lost 900 dead Americans? More like sacrificed them. The strategy is to feed more youth into the maw of war so as to stir up patriotism at home.
Maybe Lindsey Graham and O Hanlon should speak with Senator Hagel.
This so called surge was nothing more then fill in for the Coalition of the Willing that withdrew from Iraq. Because other countries wanted their troops home meant we needed to back fill the loss of those soldiers.
So this so-called surge is nothing more than our taking on this mess single handed.....flat and simple.
They surged and splurged on profits.
The point that seems to keep being missed in these discussions, the reason we have taken fewer casualties is because we have withdrawn into a much smaller area of operation, which it is easier to defend. The 'surge' (god I hate that name) was militarily waving a white flag. We conceded the dangerous areas to the Iraqi freedom fighters and Islamic Jihad.
I recall the failed attempts in Vietnam, to fight a 'passive war'. They were disasters. We eventually took a more aggressive policy and it made a huge difference. It also cost us dearly. Yesterday we crossed the 4000 killed count. In Vietnam, we lost over 50,000 lives and over a million Vietnamese died. The surge is a joke, but it is better than the alternative. We would have to put enough troops on the ground to subdue the Iraqis, and that would only prolong the inevitable. No country, especially one so rich in history and culture, is going to tolerate a foreign invader on their soil. Eventually, the entire country will unite to spurt us out.
The surge is working. I do not think so.
Come ON Chuck! Join the Democratic Party! We already love ya.
Hagel is a good man. After the Bush administration told Congress they didn't even need an authoriztion from them to invade Iraq and were planning to go ahead and do it anyway authorization or no authorization, Congress demanded that the White House draw up a written statement outlining their war plans.
When it was delivered to Congress essentially saying they were planning to invade any and every country they determined had the tiniest connection with terrorism, it was Senators Hagel, Lugar and Biden who RE-WROTE that outline to limit the White House's invasion to Iraq and ONLY if Iraq failed the inspection process and all diplomatic solutions had been exhausted.
This was the birth of the October, 2002, Congressional Resolution. And before it was presented to Congress for their authorization, it was re-written by those bipartisan Senators, including Hagel, to PREVENT an unnecessary war in Iraq unless Iraq failed the inspection process.
Iraq didn't fail the inspection process, the international inspectors TOLD the world Iraq was not failing the inspection process, but Bush invaded anyway.
This, of course, puts a lie to the media's favorite spin that a vote for that resolution was a "vote for war". That isn't the way Hagel, Lugar and Biden saw it or the way they wrote it.
You can't find any measure of success because there isn't any success in this debacle called Freedom for the Iraqi people... it's been one bit fiasco for pretty much everyone involved. Not for the oil companies and their lobbyists and cronies... certainly a disaster for the Iraqi people. Saddam was a better leader than Bu$h... and Cheney... and the rest of those warmonger freaks.
Geebus! Get the eff outta Iraq NOW!
Success = Suffering Under the Constant Cronyism that is Ending a Sane Society.
From W to W, town upon town, everybody is going to fall down in the.. states.
It's not working because the Shiite are slowly getting into the fight.
The entire surge is just a bribe to keep various tribes from killing
each other and the US referees stuck in the middle of it all,
but the bribe isn't working.
BD
I've never trusted Stephanopoulus. In the last few years he has shown himself to be such a tool and apologist that I am finding myuself suspicious of the Clintons, after the fact, for the close association they had with him. What a schmuck.
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