March 24, 2008 01:24 PM
Straight Talk McCain Speech on economy: Open Thread
OK, since he's admitted that he's not into economic issues, I guess we'll probably hear he wants to put together a Blue Ribbon panel of experts to sort it all out...
A few of us have just started a new blog called "Straight Talk McCain"
I think it's fitting, don't you? How many times will he say "straight talk" today about a subject he knows nothing about?
McCain: Let's start with some straight talk: I will not play election year politics with the housing crisis. I will evaluate everything in terms of whether it might be harmful or helpful to our effort to deal with the crisis we face now....
Click here for the full speech.
Primero!!!
If you reich-wingers love paying $3.50/gallon under herr dubyah, you're going to be orgasmic paying $6/gallon under McLame.
What economy?
And furthermore....McBain is straight horse-shit!
bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb iran!
With Iran training Al Qaeda extremists, should we really care about the economy? /snark/
La la la la laaaaaaaa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5RIHo5rh3c&feature=related
Dats ur' ticket
The Straight Talk McCain blog totally locked up my computer. Guess it hates anything reslug.
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 2:
honestly...and this is a quite unpopular view...I think paying that much for fuel may be a good thing in the long run...maybe people will stop buying gas hogs and push the big 3 automakers to produce practical, fuel efficient viehicles.
I'm not sayin....just sayin is all.
IgnoranceIsNotBliss @ 9:
After reading your comment, I hesitate to click on the link. I do not feel like dealing with computer woes today.
I saw a little of McCain's speech and all I heard is what we all already know about the housing market, bubble, popped bubble. Don't help the speculators, give big businesses bigger tax cuts ....blah blah blah.
My friendshh....my friendshhh....I deserve to be ....uh, my friendshhh....President....because, my friendshhh..... I got shot in the other useless war we were involved in....
Just listened in...a synopsis of how we got here, a pledge to cut taxes, a bailout for corporations and a promise to expand on NAFTA.
Sounds eerily familiar.
When you get right down to it, conservatives must be labouring in the belief that the public "can't handle the truth," and if they did, "such would only lead to error."
You can make people do anything if their afraid.
Ahhhhhhhh okay
You know, if we could ever get this issue of the Democratic Nominee ironed out, we could really start kicking some McCain ass around this campaign...
Before McCain starts lecturing anyone about the economy, he should get his own economic house in order, i.e. campaign finance law-breaking.
As long as he believes in reduced spending and tax cuts we will be fine!
Bush Press Conference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p81Lu1KuZ7M
chris @ 18:
And that's exactly what herr dubyah believes in and he's effectively destroyed our economy. You must be proud.
With apologies to Teddy Roosevelt
CHARGE
it.
I can't stand listening to him. The constant refrain of "my friends" is driving me nuts! I am not his friend; he is not my friend, enough already. The man needs to retire, he is not up to the job. His choice of vp will be interesting. Crist from FL is supposedly gay and that won't go over too well with the Hagee crowd. Lieberman? Don't think so. If elected, whoever he chooses may go into the WH by default and the mess will only get worse. Keep an eye on this move.
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 10:
Perhaps, but when you have such steep increases in such a very short time, the ramifications on our economy will be devastating.
My friends, here's some straight talk. I know absolutely nothing about the economy, I have admitted this on numerous occasions. But I promise once again to read Andrea Mitchell's husband's book-after all, his policies got us into this mess, so he is an expert, as much an expert on the economy as I am a flying a jet fighter. And I will seek advise from my friends Jack "supply side" Kemp, and Phil "screw the little guy" Gramm, who know even less about the economy than I do, but are good at blinding you with bullshit.
Yes, my friends, elect me and you'll finally realize how good you had it under the regime of GW McShrub.
PLEASE REMOVE THAT ANNOYING, FLASHY AD!
I know Crooks and Liars could always use some extra money, but please don't stoop to this level. How can we expect to free our government from corporate power when we can't even free our blogs from it?
Was Lieberman or Lindsay Graham whispering in his ear?
.
The Straight McSpeak Express...
Misspeaking it's way near you.
.
I continue to feel torn between Clinton and OBama... so prior to the primary in Ohio I went to hear Barack and Michelle Obama and also HIlllary, Bill and Chelsea Clinton in person during a two week period. At the event in Columbus Ohio where Senator Obama spoke I went around and talked with as many people as possible to find out why they were there and why they supported Obama.
Many folks responded with the "hope and change" mantra (which is a bit frightening when they are unable to give any specific reasons besides this parrot like response) but there were also some voters who had in depth reasons why they supported OBama. One of those voters was the head legislative rep for the Teamsters in Ohio. When I asked him to talk about each candidate he said that MCCAIN had not ever voted in favor of the working class person, that MCCAIN had not voted in favor of the power of collective bargaining and unions. He pointed his thumb down for MCCAIN.
For Hillary he placed his hand on a level plane and then wobbled his hand back and forth. Stating that Hillary's "claims" that she did not support Nafta were hollow especially since this labor leader said that in Hillary's most recent book she supported Nafta.
For Obama this labor leader put his thumb up ....way up. Saying that Obama had voted for the working person on many occasions and that OBama offered hope! And that our nation needed HOPE!
chris @ 18:
Agreed! The first thing we need to do is cut spending by $12 billion a month by eliminating this immoral, illegal and unending war. Then, eliminate the tax breaks given by Shrub and his Republic sychophants in Congress to those making over $250,000 year.
Problem solved.
mccain is so dumb, he has no idea that printing money and giving it to his defense buddies is killing the economy. trillions of dollars printed means there are that many more dollars available - which brings down the value of each dollar in circulation compared to before they were printed, and unless you get to use the newly printed money first (like if u are a defense contractor), ur are on the loosing end of the inflation game. and anyone who saves their money is being robbed.
Kathleen, I to feel torn, but given the perfomance of Carvalle of Richardson's endorsment really pisses me off. The fact is the Clintons beleive she would have wrapped this up, but they found they had to fight for. It just gets uglier. Well my primary is coming up and registration is shattering records. I think I spells doom for the GOP. Good!
A TRUTHINESS IN ADVERTISING MOMENT.............
McCain: Vote for me my friends, I'm stupid as hell on the economy, but vote for me anyway my friends... Because I'm less stupid on the economy than the stupid sonofabitch you voted for last time, who was even stupider on the economy than I am you morons...err I mean, my friends..... Don't worry, I'll hire the same pack of economic idiots, err experts, who provided such steller advice to the last fratboy moron, err republican president who wrecked the nation financially........Of this, I promise......
END OF TRUTHINESS IN ADVERTISING MOMENT............JD
woodguy @ 29:
illegal? you want cheap gas or not, laws mean nothing, I said it before and I will say it again, realpolitik. You want to eliminate the tax break for the people who actually PAY TAXES?? we need to give them an incentive to invest in there business/stock etc. giving that money to people who can't manage money is a waste.....
McCain is a dumbass on the economy, look at this response he gave to Ron Paul on a question regarding Bush's markets working group.
------------------
REP. PAUL: My...my question is for Senator McCain. This is an economic question that I wanted to ask. It has to do with the President's Working Group on Financial Markets. I'd like to know what your opinion is of this and whether you would keep it in place, what their role would be, or you would get rid of this group. And if you kept the group, would you make sure we would see some sunlight and know what they're doing and how they're being involved in our markets?.
SEN. MCCAIN: Well, obviously we'd like to see more sunshine. But I as president, as every other president, rely primarily on my secretary of the Treasury, on my Council of Economic Advisers, on the head of that. I would rely on the circle that I have developed over many years of people like Jack Kemp, Phil Gramm, Warren Rudman, Pete Peterson, and the Concord Group. I have a process of leadership Ron, that is sort of an inclusive one that I have developed, a circle of acquaintances and people that are supporters and friends of mine who I have worked with for many, many years..
REP. PAUL: So you'd get rid of the group?.
SEN. MCCAIN: You remember back in 1982 when Phil Gramm... Phil Gramm and Warren Rudman and Gramm-Latta and all of those people got the first real tax cuts done, the real first real restraints in taxes. I was there. You were there. And I rely on those people to a much larger degree than any, quote, "formal" organization, although the secretary of Treasury is obviously one of the key and important posts that I would have.
The "straight talk" line and the "my friends line" make me crazy, but so does his habit of repeating things twice to place emphasis on their importance.
McLame: from "Straight Talk Express" to "Bending it Like Beckham"!
phantom @ 25:
I have popups as well as splashy ads. I think I shall make some posters happy and stop coming here. Sorry C&L but popups are spam, whether they are paying ads or not. Time to shut down. I can see ads on tv and despise them online. Thanks for a great blog though.
If McCain should be the next president, the state of the union addresses might be fun for a drinking game. Each time he would say "my friends" or "straight talk" we would all take a drink. Hell, we would be full out wasted before the first fifteen minutes had passed.
phantom @ 25:
How about flashy ads from the Leather Castle?
Are they still around?
Chris, reduced spending and tax cute mean nothing to gas prices either. Everyone knows that the price of oil per barrel doesn't match the economy: those who control the supply are also controlling the prices.
Second, those of us making less than $250,000 a year are paying our taxes as well, thank you very much. However, when Starbucks pays less in taxes for their entire corporate empire than I pay for myself and my family, you can understand why the rest of us get a little peeved.
And finally, many of those who are poverty-stricken didn't get there by managing their money poorly. True, they aren't terribly concerned with stock market prices or flipping houses, but they manage what little money they have very well. I have an idea: why not put THEM in charge of the purse-strings at Halliburton. I guarantee one of them would notice the billions leaking out of that company like a sieve and into the pockets of Cheney's pals.
chris @ 33:
1. The "war" hasn't helped lower gas prices. In fact, it has successfully accomplished the opposite. Fact.
2. Giving tax breaks to the rich and corporations has failed. Fact. Next.....
The elections has come to this:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
What a ringing endorsement.
AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT of 2003
Now it's the lenders fault because Republicans fought tooth and nail against any State regulation against lenders and their Bush Supported rape of lower income home buyers.
Bananaphone @ 40:
You control gas prices, he does, she does , they do! its a supply and demand issue. The more China demands the higher prices will be, we have to curb demand here at home, the individual, not the government. Second, if you think you are paying more taxes than starbucks then you've been drinking to much starbucks, were in the world did you get that crazy idea, let me guess, someone posted it on here? Finally, if they did not manage there money poorly then how did they end up in that situation? Putting them in charge of Halliburton would lead the company to bankruptcy because they would just start living outside there means like they did before......
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 41:
The money just goes to outsource more of our jobs ,or to off-shore accounts, and relocated businesses hq's to places like Dubai.
45 chris
Actually that's quantity supply and quantity demand.
Supply and Demand refers only to bushels of goods, not any one in particular.
In addition, until we have alternatives, petroleum based energy is an inelastic quantity demand, and besides impacting the consumer negatively, also impacts other businesses as well.
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 23:
maybe you're right...though I think our economy may be one of many things soon to be devastated by BushCo and pals.
chris @ 33:
Thanks for the tired talking points. Nice you admit that "laws mean nothing" and you believe that the Republic party can manage money. Come back when you learn how to think...never mind.
P.D. @ 26:
Liarman has been hanging over McCain's shoulder at every turn and event. To think McCain is listening to a man who has been dead (Lieberman deferred in Vietnam, and not one family member of his serves in Iraq) wrong on almost everything in the middle east is frightening and deeply disturbing;
Senator Graham has obviously joined the "cakewalk in Iraq" zealots regime change agenda in the middle east. He was almost singing McCains "bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" mantra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg
Watch and listen to Senator Graham target Iran
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/ftn/main3460.shtml
Senator Graham
" We need to let the Iranians know that your not going to be the "cancer of the middle east without consequences." You are not going to destroy Israel by supporting Hamas. You are not going to destroy Lebanon by supporting Hezbollah. And you are not going to destroy our will in Iraq. And you do this at your own risk"
These are inflammatory and unnecessary words spoken with vehemence by Senator Graham having to do with Iran. The right wing radicals including Senator Lieberman, VP Cheney, Bill Kristol, James Woolsey, John Bolton, and many more of the chickenhawks who lied our nation into Iraq have been persistently attempting to push our nation into an unnecessary military confrontation with Iran. Do not wait to respond call your reps, call often call every day....PUSH HARD AGAINST THE WARMONGERS...DON'T LET UP!
THE TIME TO RESPOND IS NOW!
chris @ 45:
Sorry, Chrissy, you are wrong....as usual. The reason why gas prices are so high is NOT because of increased supply and demand. It's directly due to the weakened dollar and energy speculators jacking up the price because the USD is so pathetic & weak.
The only idea that is crazy, Chrissy, is you denying the fact that the rich and corporations have greatly been impacted by herr dubyah's tax cuts.
Next...
Giving tax breaks to corporations so they can pay out golden parachutes to CEO's that run them into the ground, at the expense of consumers, stock holders and the entire economy, makes a much sense as a lead parachute.
...as much...
I'm so fed up with Obama's campign people and their seer tactics, qnd then apologizing; their way of egging on the Clinton by throwing a stone and then hiding to see how they will react, this is an insurgent tactic used by cowards. Obama is obviously accepting that his people do this. His true colors are beginning to show apparently he feels he won already so he takes a vacation. This to me is not Presidential material. After 20 years of listening to that pastor wright who knows what his real point of view is. It is very hard to convert a musleum family to American TRADITIONS AND RELIGION.
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 51:
Okay we are not going to keep doing this until you take an econ class, got it. That been said, I'm not saying the weaker dollar is not in play because it is, but supply and demand is the major factor. Second, of course they were affected, as were you, it allowed them to expand there business or have more money loanable. Sometimes, well, all the time, you libs just don't get it..
Chris, it's called povery. They don't have loose money to mismanage. As in, can't feed the kids, much less themselves. Your economic views are incredibly simplistic. Speaking of which, Starbucks gets both tax-cuts and tax subsidies. Nevada gave Starbucks some $2 million in tax breaks for one coffee roasting plant in Douglas County. And that is only one instance. Try again.
chris @ 55:
Sorry, Chrissy, you need to graduate from primary school first. The sole reason for the spike in gas prices is the spike in the decline of the dollar...those are the facts, princess. There is enough crude available and enough production. THere is no massive spike in worldwide demand. Fact. Energy speculators have been jacking up the prices because the dollar is at an all-time low. You need to grasp reality and the facts, Chrissy.
Sorry, Chrissy, the rich and corporations have been received much greater rax breaks than the rest of the country. Fact. When you finish your 2nd grade of homeschooling, you can return.
Are you ever sick of being wrong? Apparently not....
chris @ 55:
Chrissy, the only think you reich-wingers "get" is more obtuse and factually challenged day-by-day.
I guess the " My Friends" post has taken hold...Good for us!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/16/john-mccain-and-my-friends/
Ending the War will not add any "REAL" money to the Economy. the $12,000,000,000.00 we're spending is being borrowed from the world economy. At some point we will start paying back that money with interest. think about paying interest on $3,000,000,000,000.00, something like $30,000,000,000.00 per year! probably "forever" the real money is what is going out of the country to pay for OIL every year. If we stopped importing Fuel, our balance of trade would suddenly be positive. Our economy would have a HUGE infusion of Money (the billions in oil subsidies for example). All of the money going out of the country for oil could be going into a "Domestic sourced" energy industry. A domestic sourced energy industry would have a magnifying effect on our economy since every dollar spent on Energy would go to an American, who then might spend it on American Goods and Services!
but no, we must go to war to insure our ability to pay other countries and boost their economies.
P.D. @ 31:
It is Hillary's "yea" vote on the 2002 war resolution that still has me pissed. And according
to UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter (weapons inspector in Iraq during Clintons administration).
There is a great deal on the web about Scott Ritter and what he has to report about the Clintons. It is worth reading everything Scott has to report about the Clintons.
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0303-23.htm
Scott Ritter on “Target Iran: The Truth About the White House’s Plans for Regime Change”
http://www.democracynow.org/2006/10/16/scott_ritter_on_target_iran_the
Scott states that Hillary knew in 2002 that Saddam did not possess WMD's. That Hillary was playing a numbers game. When Hillary voted for the Kyl Lieberman amendment and then laughed when Mike Gravel challenged her "yea" vote for the Kyl/Lieb amendment during one of the debates.
Watch Hillary laugh about her dangerous Kyl Lieberman amendment vote..Creepy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npzN3dZR6JM
Her dangerous and unnecessary vote (why would you give the radicals in control of the Bush administration one more tool to pre-emptively strike Iran?)
has almost put the nail in Hillary's coffin for me.
Along with all of the very destructive sniping and ranting coming out of the Clinton campaign and from Clinton lunatic bloggers like Susanunpc (who is a Hillary lunatic and a liar, she flames the lies about Obama and lies about other issues) over at NoQuarterUsa where the Obama attacks are below the belt and way way out of line. All the while these Clinton Lunatics (Susan un pc and Larry Johnson) point the finger over at a place like Daily Kos while participate and cultivate the very same below the belt and disgusting tactics that they claim another blog is participating in. These are blatant hypocrisies.
If both sides do not unite , harness this new enthusiasm , and then pivot and focus on the failures of the Bush administration and McCain's close ties to this administration's failed and disastrous policies. If they do not decide who is on top, I believe this ruthless infighting will leave permanent scars.
I am leaning towards Obama in a big way based on his willingness to consider new foreign policy strategies, and his appeal to young and discouraged voters.
Hillary's warmongering votes are not going away!
chris @ 55:
Ah STFU...since when do you decide what is debated or not in here? When YOU get some common sense, and quit repeating VERBATIM, GOP talking points, maybe someone will take you seriously. Oh we "libs" get it alright...We get that laws mean NOTHING to you and your precious GOP. We get that your party is done, finished, kaputt!
Your party had it's turn at the helm, and ran aground. It's time to accept the fact that it's over for you guys...ya went from admiral to cabin boy. Nice job.
John Amato @ 59:
John,
That would be good for us, my friends.
Dr. Matt and LIM,
Pehaps we can find a more receptive entity than Chrissy with whom to disuss this--like a brick wall or lump of coal.
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 57:
The fact that you keep insulting my name says alot, trying to distract from the real issues eh? Sad, one day we will look back at what happened and read this site and know why. People stop taking responsibility for ourselves and started blaming the government (R) for everything. Well, until its the (D) government, then it will all be big businesses fault...
WOW IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED DEMOCRACY NOW TODAY...A MUST! Moving interview. Can't wait to see this film.
Coverage of the Film "A Body of War"
http://www.democracynow.org/
Body of War: New Doc Tells the Story of a Paralyzed Iraq War Veteran Coming to Terms with Disability and Speaking Out Against War
As the US occupation of Iraq enters its sixth year, we take a look at a new documentary that captures the struggles of one of the tens of thousands of US troops injured in the war. Body of War is directed by filmmaker Ellen Spiro and veteran broadcaster Phil Donahue. The film tells the story of Iraq war veteran Tomas Young. On April 4, 2004, his fifth day in Iraq, Young’s unit came under fire in Baghdad. He was left paralyzed, never to walk again. Released from medical care three months later, Young returned home to become an active member in Iraq Veterans Against the War. We play excerpts of Body of War and speak with Tomas Young and with filmmakers Phil Donahue and Ellen Spiro. [includes rush transcript]
Have been sitting here weeping remembering when Senator Byrd stood so valiantly in the halls of congress trying to convince the other Senators (hello Senator Hillary "warmonger" Clinton) to stall the 2002 war resolution or to vote against it. I was listening and watching these hearings closely. I could not believe the timing of this resolution and wondered why in the hell the Democrats did not demand more hearings or a delay in the vote until after the 2002 mid-term elections. Senator Byrd's words made me weep then and now. 23 Senators Voted against that resolution and Senator Clinton was not one of them. During this time I gained new respect for former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee and for Senator Byrd.
McCain has now started giving speeches just like Bush. He is using the third grade book report talk down to the crowd style. How ignorant do they think we are?
"McCain: Let’s start with some straight talk: I will not play election year politics with the housing crisis. I will evaluate everything in terms of whether it might be harmful or helpful to our effort to deal with the crisis we face now…."
To paraphrase the Senator, " I don't have a clue about how to fix this miserable economic mess, and besides, it's just about time for my nap."
He is the most uninspiring speaker out there. When I hear him speak I start to yawn and want to roll over and fall asleep. Oh, and if I hear him say "my friends" one more time I am going to f@#*^ing scream!!
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
ConcernedCanuck @ 37:
I seem to be blocking the popups but what is super annoying is having to delete the "serving-sys" tracking cookie every time I come here.
John, is that *really* necessary?
Actually, the weakened dollar is due in large part with our exponentially growing deficit due to tax cuts and war, and particularly because they're happening concurrently.
When the US government has to borrow so much money, just like an individual, they end up having to pay out more for interest than principal. In either, case that's taking more money out of circulation for business and home loans. Increasing our national debt loan decreases the value of our currency.
Corporations without regulations are like elite citizenry who have to obey no laws.
All aboard the Depends Express. Note that there is no schedule...it's too irregular.
chris @ 65:
Blah blah blah, yakkety schmakkety. I think that we, and by we I mean rational, logical folks, not YOU Chris, know full well who is to blame for the sorry state this nation is in...YOU, and people like YOU, for buying into this BS spewing forth from the GOP and voting for and blindly supporting this BS war.
Thanks alot you un-American POS fascist!
Correction to my last post...it should "voting for Bush" everything else is A-OK.
GAH!!! Correction to my correction..."it should be" ...damn...now I'm all discombobulated.
now that she's in trouble, Hilary is breaking out Wright to talk about...
how transparent..
how... Tonya Harding.
that's absolutely pathetic.
It is quite obvious that McCain did not write that speech. McCain the man knows VERY little about anything other than how to listen to "advisers", those snakes who hide in the shadows and only peek out from the rock they live under to enact agendas.
It is clear that his speech was written by an anti-capitalist speechwriter, who themselves know very little about economics. Since McCain did not write the speech, it is vain to complain about his lack of economic knowledge, It makes more sense to critique what was said by the speechwriter. Of course 90% of the population will attribute what McCain said to McCain, rather than from the old and decrepit has-been party like the neo-cons, who are the people running the McCain show. This critique is so easy to do, because the speech contains almost all of the economic fallacies exploded by REAL economists over the last hundred years. This is what happens when you fail to learn history, because yada yada...
"The past decade witnessed the largest increase in home ownership in the past 50 years. Home ownership is part of the American dream, and we want as many Americans as possible to be able to afford their own home. But in the process of a huge, and largely positive, upturn in home construction and ownership, a housing bubble was created."
Typical. See, this is the typical reaction of someone who does not understand that housing was merely the FIRST sign that the whole economy is inflated, or in a "bubble". This bubble (as all bubbles) was created by the Federal Reserve system. The people who run the McCain "Skewed Talk" Happy Fun Hour Express Show do not attribute the bubble to monetary policy because they are ignorant of economics. If our economy was not on "fiat" money, then it would be impossible for housing prices to go as high as they did. Bubbles are formed when the Federal Reserve artificially lowers the interest rate, which in other words means printing money out of thin air. This EXTRA demand went into housing AS WELL AS ALL PARTS OF THE ECONOMY. But MOST of it went into housing. It was the only way that the Fed's Keynesian models could spit out how to increase consumer demand. Rising home equity could keep the PREVIOUS bubble (Nasdaq) afloat and not cause a recession.
"A bubble occurs when prices are driven up too quickly, speculators move into markets, and these players begin to suspend the normal rules of risk and assume that prices can only move up - but never down."
Idiot. Bubbles do not occur for no reason. "Prices are bid up too quickly"? Has this person ever thought of just HOW prices could be bid up so quickly? Oh sure, blame the evil "speculators", that'll go over well with the public. And what the hell does this "normal rules" mean exactly? There is no such thing in an advanced secular society. And this "assuming" that prices can only move up but not down? I can assume all day long, it doesn't mean it will happen. Prices can only go up if and only if demand increases. This writer should have asked themselves "what can make demand go up?" It's not magic! Only MORE MONEY can make demand go up.
"We've seen this kind of bubble before - in the late 1990s, we had the technology bubble, when money poured into technology stocks and people assumed that those stock values would rise indefinitely."
Yes we have seen bubbles before, and in all cases in was the FEDERAL RESERVE that printed too much money too fast, causing a distortion of the market price system, and prices for things rise that should NOT rise. If the prices for factors of production are bid up too high on the basis of credit expansion, and not real savings, the only result can be a boom followed by a crash. Home prices were bid up NOT because people voluntarily saved more, which would have been the case under a commodity standard of money. No, prices rose in housing because ARTIFICIAL savings were increased by the Federal Reserve. Since the people did not act in ways that would have made housing prices rise (namely by saving more), they instead CONTINUED TO CONSUME AS BEFORE. Therefore, the only way housing could continue to rise is if the Federal Reserve continued to pump money into the economy (low interest rates). But they cannot do this and avoid consumer prices to rise so they had to raise rates again, which took away the source for the rise in housing prices. Make sense?
"Between 2001 and 2006, housing prices rose by nearly 15 percent every year."
Moron. That's because from 2001 to 2004 the Federal Reserve lowered the fed funds interest rate to LESS THAN 2%, meaning HUGE sums of money were being injected into the economy. This new money went into housing among other things.
"The normal market forces of people buying and selling their homes were overwhelmed by rampant speculation. Our system of market checks and balances did not correct this until the bubble burst."
Fuck this speechwriter. I mean seriously. SPECULATION?? You want to blame the people who saw that something fishy was going on and took advantage of it? This isn't Romper frickin Room, this is about people's livelihood. Speculation cannot create bubbles, BUBBLES CREATE SPECULATION. Typical of a an anti-capitalist to think such a thing.
"A sustained period of rising home prices made many home lenders complacent, giving them a false sense of security and causing them to lower their lending standards."
That's what inflation ALWAYS does! In ALL cases of inflation (increase in supply of money and credit), people become complacent. Leisure is more important than working for most people, so if they think they have become wealthy, they will relax more. This is human nature. It isn't something to be surprised at.
"They stopped asking basic questions of their borrowers like "can you afford this home? Can you put a reasonable amount of money down?" Lenders ended up violating the basic rule of banking: don't lend people money who can't pay it back."
THAN WHY DID ALAN GREENSPAN TELL PEOPLE TO BUY VARIABLE RATE MORTGAGES BACK IN 2001-2004? Isn't HE supposed to be the "expert"?
You know, I can barely remain calm here. Here we have not the "Straight Talk Express", but rather the "Statist Propaganda Express". What the speechwriter is doing is manipulating the public into thinking that the bubble is the fault of the people, when in reality it is the fault of MASSIVE INFLATION created by the Federel Reserve system during the 1990's and again in the 2000's.
Peter Schiff is someone everyone should watch on youtube, he is the only person in the MSM news who gets it. Of course he is often ridiculed, but that's just because he is right and the bobbleheads can't take it.
Here is Peter going to work against some idiot investment adviser:
http://media.putfile.com/Peter-Schiff-Inflation
He says my friends because he doesn't know what country or state he's in.
Something like calling all your boy/girlfriends baby because you don't want to make a mistake and call him/her by the wrong name.
He's gonna lose big time.
Go Obama!
Go USA!
maggie. _ @ 54:
Gawd, you people are shameless. Get over your rage. Rev. Wright was telling it like it is, if you don't like it don't go to his church.
hillary can't win all she's doing is praising mcsnowball and lying on Obama.
Tell hillary to stop her lying about Bonsia. (misstatement my ass)
Go Obama!
Go USA!
Gion @ 78:
How true and sad.
Gion @ 78:
yeah, pretty disgusting.
in the end though, i think it will only make obama a stronger candidate against mccain, and ensure that the clintons-- both of them-- get their just place in the annals of history-- in the shithouse and the pigpen.
what concerns me a bit now is that Clinton seems likely to pull a lieberman when she doesn't get the nomination, and break away from the party she helped to destroy...
that will certainly help mccain.
ysbaddaden @ 72:
Yes, you've got it exactly. Now, could you possibly send an e-mail to the McCain campaign, and perhaps, someone will be able to explain it to the Senator.
DREW @ 79
It is quite obvious that McCain did not write that speech. McCain the man knows VERY little about anything other than how to listen to “advisers”, those snakes who hide in the shadows and only peek out from the rock they live under to enact agendas.
It is clear that his speech was written by an anti-capitalist speechwriter, who themselves know very little about economics. Since McCain did not write the speech, it is vain to complain about his lack of economic knowledge, It makes more sense to critique what was said by the speechwriter. Of course 90% of the population will attribute what McCain said to McCain, rather than from the old and decrepit has-been party like the neo-cons, who are the people running the McCain show. This critique is so easy to do, because the speech contains almost all of the economic fallacies exploded by REAL economists over the last hundred years. This is what happens when you fail to learn history, because yada yada…
Dear Drew: I took the time to read your entire contribution. Thank you for a better explanation than I have seen in a long time. There is, however, one more ingredient to this housing bubble/lender mess. That ingredient is the lobbying that lenders did to weaken the minimum lending rules. Lenders wanted to make riskier loans because they are so lucrative and there is a big market among hedge funds, both here and abroad, for these loan packages. And why not? The interest rates that are charged to borrowers who have poor credit is extremely high. They may get a teaser rate for the first year of an adjustable rate mortgage, but the adjustment margins are horrendous if your credit is poor.
The irony here is that now many lending institutions want to be bailed out of the mess they made for themselves. They are playing the old, " We didn't know and the government should have prevented this " game.
The sad part is they will probably be bailed out by all of us and lots of people in lots of places made a piles of money on this deal and then sold the loans off.
If we are going to be bailing all these financial inst. out, I would at least like to know actually got the money when everything was going so well.
P.S. McCain is utterly clueless.
How many of you go to church and believe what the pastor says. After 20 years you don't only believe you accept. After you believe and accept then you do your best to act on it. Food for thought.
maggie. _ @ 86:
scooby dooby doo, where are you?
speak better, dear
are you referring to the whole virgin birth magic that everybody believes....wrong thread maybe?
I had thought McCain was only slightly less stupid than the Bush drunk. Now, clearly, he is the equal in stupidity to the Yale Illiterate. But then again, stupidity rules here in god's country. Carry on.
yes, EVERYBODY /87
McCain is worst than W. That said with the country in awful shape
millions will still vote for him. H.L. Mencken said,"No one ever went broke
underestimating the taste of the American public." In my lifetime I
remember Nixon, Ike, Reagan, pa & son Bush even a year of Hoover.
I was two years old and remember him well.
Now politicians say the same old bull. "Can't fool the average voter."
When the Democrats stop killing each other it will be too late. The
GOP propaganda machine has been working overtime on we genius
Americans so don't cry when President McCain is elected. Holy crap!
A country full of dumbbells. It's good for a laugh how zany we are. :-)
I wasn't able to listen to the speech but since it's McCain, I'm sure it's something along the lines of tax cuts forever.
I have a question I'd like to ask:
How much effect did all of those "buy and sell homes and make thousands of dollars a week right from your PC" schemes have on the housing bubble so frequently mentioned? I have no clue how many people participated in house flipping, but it seems like a year ago I was hearing commercials for these sorts of things all the time...
Kathy in St. louis @ 85:
"Dear Drew: I took the time to read your entire contribution."
If we knew each other I would say thanks. But this is so important that this knowledge simply MUST get out into the public discourse. Truth MUST be known, because that is the only tool we have in order to make our lives better. This drive to make our lives better is what being human is all about. We could give up, but the only result of that will be a completely hegemonic society.
"Thank you for a better explanation than I have seen in a long time."
There is NOTHING better than knowing the truth, in the long run anyway.
"There is, however, one more ingredient to this housing bubble/lender mess."
Do tell.
"That ingredient is the lobbying that lenders did to weaken the minimum lending rules."
Those rules should not be rules. People should be free to cooperate in the best way they think is possible. A market free of rules (other than against real fraud, theft, physical harm, etc) is about a life of short term pain and long term gain. Minimum lending rules in fact have far worse long run effects than than any perceivable gain in the short run. Read Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson". You can download it.
"Lenders wanted to make riskier loans because they are so lucrative"
Ahh see? That's what inflation does to people. But that "lucrativeness" is not actual real wealth, it is merely paper wealth. For example, if I gave someone 10 million dollars, how would they react? Can you see how the average person might take it easy and perhaps invest say 10% in a risky investment, because even if you lose it you still have 9 million left? This is an expected reaction. Let's then assume that because you have 10 million dollars, you decide to BORROW some money from the bank. Since you have so much money, the bank will give you favorable rates, and a higher principle. Money is the yardstick, after all, in business. Let's say that you then invest more, say 6 million, in housing, because everyone seems to be making huge sums of money in it, and you don't want to miss out.
So a few years go by, and all of a sudden there is no market for your investments, and they go to zero. You still owe the bank the money that you borrowed, so you are now in the red. In other words, your REAL wealth was not 10 million in paper dollars, it was the real physical wealth that that money represented, which was certainly less than 10 million.
So you went from someone who had very little money, to becoming a millionaire overnight, to becoming bankrupt. All because the Federal Reserve printed so much money that everyone thought they were legitimately wealthy. But this is perhaps the BIGGEST problems with fiat money systems. It makes people THINK they are wealthy, when they really are not. But the price system is the only system we have in order to do business across the globe. Without the price system, I would not be typing in this PC talking to you, as it was made across the world in a global market that can only use the price system to cooperate in the material world. Fiat systems SHORT CIRCUIT this only system we have, and people INEVITABLY make bad decisions. Humans require calculations to act in order to achieve their goals. If you take away the means we have to cooperate with business partners (economic calculation), you take away the only method to achieve ends. We all need the price system to function well in order to make wise economic decisions!
"and there is a big market among hedge funds, both here and abroad, for these loan packages. And why not? The interest rates that are charged to borrowers who have poor credit is extremely high. They may get a teaser rate for the first year of an adjustable rate mortgage, but the adjustment margins are horrendous if your credit is poor."
I understand how it is easy to place the blame on a few unscrupulous business lenders and then judge the whole system to be a sham. But the housing industry has been around for a few hundred years you know. Why now? Why should housing be in a bubble now? If people are "greedy" in the marketplace, then why didn't the bubble form before now? The reason is that bubbles form when the price system is manipulated by the central bank's intervention in money and credit. Bubbles cannot form by such minor details as what regulations are in place. Regulations are such a minor part of the problem, but many who don't trust the free market insist that is what CAUSES economic woes. There is very little regulation in the electronics industry, WHY didn't a bubble form in electronics in 2008?
The truth is that is simply impossible to predict where and how the credit expansion boom will burst. All we can say is that it WILL burst eventually.
Just so you know, there WILL be a bursting of another bubble coming up, and that is the credit card industry and/or the debt industry. Both of these industries depended on home equity prices rising. Now that housing is going down, and will continue to go down, the source of paper currency wealth has dried up. The US economy is NOT going through a rough patch like before, this economy has reached the breaking point because there is negative savings in this country. There are no more bubbles that the Fed can create anymore. All this new money that is being injected into the economy is literally destroying the currency only, it is not helping. I know people hate hearing bad news, but those economists who are always right are saying that the economy is going to completely collapse due to a destroyed currency. This is what fiat systems have ALWAYS done in history. Fiat systems simply cannot work, because the price system is ruined. Without the price system, the division of labor breaks down, production breaks down, and we become a third world nation like Argentina. This is no joke. The reason we have lost our productive base is because of our fiat standard. The world shares this standard but our central bank is running the show, so the world reacts to what the Fed does. Other central banks had to inflate as well because that was the only way to keep the value of the us dollar high relative to their own currencies. But this system is coming to an end, and the world's elite know it. That's why all the talk of a NWO. These people know the present system cannot last, but instead of saying ok let's go to a 100% gold standard, they say let's have world socialism. No joke.
"The irony here is that now many lending institutions want to be bailed out of the mess they made for themselves. They are playing the old, " We didn't know and the government should have prevented this " game."
Sure, they do that. But this kind of behavior is expected of those who become rich without working hard for it. Those who become rich artificially (due to Federal Reserve credit expansion), cannot possible know how to keep it. It's like giving an alcoholic $100 and then when he blows it on alcohol, you blame the alcoholic instead of the person who gave the $100. Inflation is such a terrible facet of our present society, it brings out the worst in people and causes malcontent, suspicion, fraud, and terrible losses. Inflation is not merely rising prices, it is a system that is going to destroy our way of life.
"The sad part is they will probably be bailed out by all of us and lots of people in lots of places made a piles of money on this deal and then sold the loans off."
Ever hear of that saying that goes something like: unsolicited apology or help is tantamount to an inner feeling of guilt?
That's why the Fed is doing it. They KNOW they are at fault. THIS is the moral hazard that perpetuates the problem, and eventually leads to the destruction of the currency. Then the empire will fail. Don't listen to the idiots in Washington who want to be in Iraq for 100 years. They simply have no clue that they are not going to be able to afford it. Why? Because they are ignorant of free market economics.
maggie. _ @ 86:
Hillary has an inner circle prayer group of far right leading republicans. are you saying Hllary is thus, a republican?
And, maybe Mr. MaGoo....I'm sorry...McCain, has some magic up his sleeve to save Social Security and Medicare too.
Maybe that's why they let Kevorkian out of jail, he's gonna have to be teachin' a lot of folks how to end it all when the medicare and SS trusts go belly up in the next little while.
Kathy in St. louis @ 84:
Yes, and we could've solved this problem a while back when Pres. Kennedy essentially abolished the Fed and authorized the US Congress/Treasury to print money as they are Consituttinally obligated to do. Oh, wait, he's dead....oh, bad idea I guess.
Amitola @ 96:
I'm glad you are aware of the world.
It drives me absolutely BONKERS that when people are told of these things, they shrug it off as just another theory among a variety of other theories that could also be true. SHIT!!! Damn polylogism run amok is what that is. There is only ONE explanation for economic crises: The government and the Fed. The free market would have small, easily fixed setbacks, but in the long run it would progress INDEFINITELY. A government regulated economy will have periods of apparent prosperity, but huge collapses later on, but zero progress. So the choices we have are:
Do you want to live in a dream world and slowly be killed or do you want to live in a harsh reality, where it is good, where we can all benefit from what the Earth contains?
tHeGaMeHusseinOfLiFe @ 81:
the media is not doing it's job. see video: Mainstream Media Fraud Violates Integrity of the Election
gion 94 is it a church? cause all kinds of people pray everywhere. This is your answer
Drew @93, you are so right but we as a people seem to have forgotten that we are the government. Basta! It is time that we take back what is ours and that is ordering and demanding from our elected officials all over the world instead of letting them run amonk. We pay millions of dollars in taxes and they aren't even oweing up to us. The mayor of Michigan is about to pay 1000's od dollars of our tax money to lawyers to defend his immoral and illicit behavior. He's been asked by the people to step down and he refuses. What say we?
Dude, our government sucks and our economy is turning to shit. Republicans suck. We may find ourselves in the middle of another great depression before too long. There seems to be a trend with republicans and economic problems. Who got us into the first great depression? President Hoover a republican. Who got us out FDR a democrat. Republicans are crooks just look at nixon. They think they are doing us and the rest of the world a favor by trying to be rightous and spending our money on lots of shit, but thats what it always amounts to, shit. Our money goes to useless shit and it most likely lines their pockets. do we see the fruits of our labor. No, we dont. Why? Cause the seeds were not planted properly and anything that was allowed to grow was left to rot.
hussein@81, God is asked to dam America for killing people, but who is America, is Rev Wright not America? He is pointing the finger excluding himself? We are all America. Is he saying other nations don't kill their people? He should preach love and respect for one another instead of provoking discomfort between people. This is the truth. If the truth is preached not personal feelings then all races will receive the correct understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Maggie @ 101:
"Drew @93, you are so right but we as a people seem to have forgotten that we are the government."
Well, I guess I will just have to disagree with you on that. I don't think the government represents us AT ALL. In fact, they are AGAINST us. How else can you explain the constant attack on the American people by our own government? Do you voluntarily give to the state anything of value? I don't. Why assume they do? This country is becoming hegemonic before our eyes and you want me to think I am the government? I take that as an offense thank you very much. I know I am better than that. The fact is that we are NOT the government. We never have been. That's the religion of nation states. We are not the government, we are Maggie and Drew and others.
"Basta!"
You calling me a Basta? How about the people who are trying to enslave you? I say THOSE are the Bastas.
"It is time that we take back what is ours"
Now you're talking.
"and that is ordering and demanding from our elected officials all over the world instead of letting them run amonk."
Uh, been there tried that. Do you think that has not been tried yet? The only hope we have is by educating ourselves and others of this country. The public schooling system is churning out a bunch of illiterate dependoids. I say live like a pauper, have one parent working, and raise your own kids instead of leaving them at the mercy of people who would rather them become obedient sheep than independent thinkers.
"We pay millions of dollars in taxes and they aren't even oweing up to us."
We pay TRILLIONS in fact. The occupation in Iraq has so far cost $3 trillion.
"The mayor of Michigan is about to pay 1000's of dollars of our tax money to lawyers to defend his immoral and illicit behavior. He's been asked by the people to step down and he refuses. What say we?"
Educate yourself and others on philosophy, history, free market economics, and mathematics. Don't be tempted by plasma TVs or other brainkilling products. Read books, sing songs, learn an instrument, and most important of all, never ever trust those who are GIVEN the power to use force, i.e. the government. Human nature has produced Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong. You cannot think for one moment that our government can never turn out like that. Our government has for so long, up until recently, been more or less well behaved because their powers to use force were LIMITED BY LAW. Now the law is out the door, and government is getting bigger and bigger. At the same time, many people still trust big government as long as they are filled with "good people", but these angels don't exist.
What we are witnessing now is NOT our society becoming more free market. No, what we are witnessing now is a systematic EROSION of our freedoms, which is causing huge problems in the economy and will only get worse as long as government is running amok like they are. Power MUST be restrained, or else it corrupts.
NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT, AS THEY ARE THE SOCIALLY LEGITIMATE APPARATUS OF USING VIOLENCE AND COERCION.
It is The Great Reckoning.
See Japan. They have already been through it. Blue ribbon panels will not solve it. When the Great Depression occured, it asted for a decade. Japan's problems after stock and housing bubbles, lasted over a decade.
Republican or democrat, The Great Reckoning will unfold. Whatever gimmicks the government comes up with, there will be unintended consequences.
maggie. _ @ 103:
Maggie, it is unfortunate that you haven't seen the entire Rev. Wright sermon.
Ohhhh...
Look what I found for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
:) N-JOY!!!11
.
chris @ 65:
The difference between (R) and (D) is that republican has become synonymous with big business, so yes, if in 3 years, under a democratic administratio,n big business keeps complaining about taxes while making records amount of profit I still will be pissed at the republicans, err, big business. If there is a difference.
After watching McLame having trouble with his teleprompter,I was laughing my ass off.You gotta know that he was doing all he could,to keep from blowing his cork through the roof.It was so funny listening to his voice trail off as the prompter slo-o-ow-w-ed down.
maggie. _ @ 54:
What the hell is this about? Its hard to convert a Muslim family to american traditions and religion? Oh you mean the popular American religion that George Bush follows, and the tradition of invading and occupying weak third world countries with no army?
What does it matter if someone is Muslim or not- if Obama was muslim it shouldn't make a godamn difference unless you're Un-American.
maggie. _ @ 86:
I want some Food of the Gods. YUMMMM.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074540/
Liberal AND Proud @ 110:
Interesting idea, but most thinking people probably agree with some of what their particular church puts out but not everything. Most people just aren't the true believers of past generations (I don't even think the true beleivers of past generations were such true believers.) I quit going to the church of my childhood over many issues that I didn't agree with it about. I am back in the pew on Sundays, now, but I still don't agree with them on those same issues.
Most of my friends are just about at the same point with their churches. So, if you don't want to vote for Obama over his stance on some other issues, then don't vote for him. If you are using what his pastor said as your rationale, I think it's a real leap.
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