No apparent 'Wright effect' in new NBC/WSJ poll
By Steve Benen Wednesday Mar 26, 2008 7:30amThe conventional wisdom held that the recent controversy surrounding Jeremiah Wright would help drag one Democratic presidential hopeful down, at least a little while helping push the other up. As it turns out, according to a new poll from NBC News/Wall Street Journal, that’s exactly what happened — though the candidate that was supposed to go down went up.
The racially charged debate over Barack Obama’s relationship with his longtime pastor hasn’t much changed his close contest against Hillary Clinton, or hurt him against Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll.
Democratic pollster Peter Hart, who conducts the Journal/NBC polls with Republican pollster Bill McInturff, called the latest poll a “myth-buster” that showed the pastor controversy is “not the beginning of the end for the Obama campaign.”
But both Democrats, and especially New York’s Sen. Clinton, are showing wounds from their prolonged and increasingly bitter nomination contest, which could weaken the ultimate nominee for the general-election showdown against Sen. McCain of Arizona. Even among women, who are the base of Sen. Clinton’s support, she now is viewed negatively by more voters than positively for the first time in a Journal/NBC poll.
Indeed, the poll results aren’t encouraging for the Clinton camp. While she had a four-point lead over Obama among Dems two weeks ago, she and Obama are now tied at 45%. In hypothetical general-election match-ups, Obama now leads McCain by two (44% to 42%), while McCain leads Clinton by two (46% to 44%). The Wright controversy was supposed to drive white Dems to Clinton in larger numbers, but her margin actually shrank in recent weeks, from 12 points to eight.
But it’s the personal impressions of Clinton that should be of the greatest concern. It appears, based on the data, that the tone of the nominating fight is taking its toll.
The negativity of the Obama-Clinton contest seems to be hurting Sen. Clinton more, the poll shows. A 52% majority of all voters says she doesn’t have the background or values they identify with. By comparison, 39% say that of Sen. Obama, and 32% of Sen. McCain.
Also, fewer voters hold positive views of Sen. Clinton than did so just two weeks ago in the Journal/NBC poll. Among all voters, 48% have negative feelings toward her and 37% positive, a decline from a net positive 45% to 43% rating in early March. While 51% of African-American voters have positive views, that is down 12 points from earlier this month, before the Wright controversy.
More ominous for Sen. Clinton is the net-negative rating she drew for the first time from women, one of the groups where she has drawn most support. In this latest poll, women voters with negative views narrowly outstrip those with positive ones, 44% to 42%. That compares with her positive rating from 51% of women in the earlier March poll.
Both she and Sen. Obama showed five-point declines in positive ratings from white voters. But where she is viewed mostly negatively, by 51% to 34% of whites, Sen. Obama’s gets a net positive rating, by 42% to 37%. Among all voters, he maintained a significant positive-to-negative score of 49% to 32% — similar to Sen. McCain’s 45% to 25%.
This isn’t entirely unexpected. As a rule, when one candidate is perceived as going negative, invariably that candidate’s favorable ratings decline. The trick of it is, that person’s target is supposed to go down, too. Otherwise, there’d never be any point to going negative in the first place.
Except, if the NBC/WSJ numbers are accurate, it appears Clinton’s criticisms of Obama aren’t having the desired effect at all.
What’s more, Chuck Todd noted, “[A]mong Obama voters, Clinton has a net-negative personal rating (35-43) while Clinton voters have a net-positive view of Obama (50-29). Taken together, this appears to be evidence that Obama, initially, should have the easier time uniting the party than Clinton.” I suspect those are numbers that will be of interest to superdelegates.
The poll wasn’t all good news for Obama. In the wake of the Wright controversy, Obama’s numbers among Republicans have fallen off, but he’s making up for it with support from independents.
Post Script: Just as an aside, there’s been talk that the poll intentionally “oversampled African-Americans,” which in turn makes the results less reliable. In this case, that interpretation appears mistaken: “What I think he means is this: In order to get a statistically reliable subset of African-American voters, they over-sampled this category. (Remember, African-Americans account for only about 13% of the US population. So that subset of a regular poll doesn’t really have a large enough sample to ensure a low margin of error.) They then re-weighted these results to come up with topline (everybody put together) numbers that adjusted for that oversampling.”
Login or Register to post comments.
Well,Well,Well....Hillary should have known that when you sling shit, you're standing in shit and it sticks to you....
Mornin Sunshines!
Well...I still say polls schmolls...though this one does sound favorable for my candidate...I just trust polls about as much as I trust anyone that says, "trust me".
I have a nervousness about the polls as well. However, there seems to be a lot of hatred...no more of a dislike for Hillary in the people I speak to. They just don't trust her. She will have a difficult time convincing those who dislike her to support her.
Clinton is pursuing a scorched Earth tactic. It will backfire.
Her presidential aspirations will end soon, and if she keeps up this destruction she may end her political career as well.
clinton's attacks have been backfiring since the laughable plagiarism charge, when WI flushed her down the toilet...
let's hope we see some leadership and courage from the superdelegates, and they come out in favor of one candidate or another,.....lay your cards on the table......
let's hope Clinton stops short of releasing any photoshopped images, and formally endorsing McCain
If what I read is true, that HRC is attempting to damage Obama so much that he loses to McCain, just so HRC can run against McCain in 2012 then HRC's poll numbers will drop a lot more when people find out.
I am voting for Ralph Nader and I suggest everyone do the same. Obama is media darling illusion, Hillary, I have no idea about what she is and Mccain a exact copy of Bush. You have a choice vote for RN and really shake up the established order..
Talkin to a republican friend of mine over a few brews last night, he said he thinks Obama will win if he's nominated, and he'd vote for him...but if it's Hillary...he's goin with McBain...I'm willin to bet alot of republicans are feelin that way.
That really don't like Hillary.
BigHurt @ 3:
I agree. I've tried to tell myself that no matter who wins, I would support. In the last few weeks I have come to dislike Clinton. The way she is running, is killing any chances for dems to win the white house. I have this feeling, that if she can't win, she will make sure Obama doesn't win either. She knows that if McCain wins, he will only be a one term president. She seems to think, that it is her turn no matter what. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel that way right now.
Filthy Harry @ 7:
Damn...could she be that calculating? She'll do more than damage Obama, she'll be damaging her own party...if she pulls that kinda shit...she'll NEVER get my vote.
Brealistic @ 8:
You're an idiot.
America is not as dumb as Hillary thought. When she lied about Bosnia and then had the nerve to make a statement against Obama about how she would had left the church just to take the heat off herself, that was it for my wife, then a Hillary supporter. Then Hillary had the nerve to say they asked her this question by surprise and then read her response from a prepared script, I realize that she will do ANYTHING to win. Barrack should assume the nomination and not even deal with her and go after McGrampa. Then she appeared on FOX (the enemy) last night talking the same trash!!!
Why don't someone ask Hillary, why she stayed with her cheating husband if she is so high and mighty?
Not this time!
Was this poll taken before Hillary's story about her landing in Bosnia was exposed?
I get so angry when someone says they will vote for McCain if their dem candidate loses. That's such a selfish thing to do. It's like throwing a snit fit and pouting. This election is too important to take a chance on McCain winning and giving us four more years just like the last seven and a half. This election isn't about hurt feelings or disappointment, it's about all of us, our country and our future.
Brealistic @ 8:
you might want to do a little research on obama, as you're wrong on him....
in fact, the only MSM and blog illusion I've seen is that Obama is a "media darling"....it's a cliche, a fun term to throw around like you know what you're talking about, but it's bogus...
instead of voting for RN, why don't you just write in UBL, or maybe TGPM.......
but seriously, do a little more reading on Obama....maybe watch a few debates, listen to that entire race speech.....he's not a media darling, the idea that he is a "media darling" is the only media darling...
All of you Obama haters who surely knew(prayed) that he was finished after what his pastor said.......aahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
I expect Billary to become more negative in the weeks ahead. As their feeling of entitlement is shattered by the reality of Hillary's imminent rejection for the democratic nomination, the Clinton's and their sycophants will become more unhinged.
For the Clinton's to hope that the "superdelegates" would give the nomination to a candidate that came in 2nd in the popular vote, number of delegates, and states won (in essence a minority candidtate), would be much more in the republican tradition.
"To hell with the people, we want power anyway we can get it."
Maybe if the superdelegates also reject Billary, they will take it to the SCOTUS and have her "selected" for the dem ticket.
Pollstrology.
I think the negative BS is hurting HRC more than the polls can reflect.
Reap what she sows?
I am reading Obama's first book, "Dreams from my Father". I highly recommend it to everyone. You'll find out what makes Obama who he is. It's very well written and when you read it you feel like you are watching a movie. He's one amazing guy.
Brealistic @ 8:
Yeah, thanks, but I'm going to vote for someone who has a chance. You keep living in your idealistic fantasy world where your protest vote has an effect. How's it worked out the last 2 presidential elections?
By the way, against ALL odds, if Ralph Nader won, who would he work with? He's pissed off everybody in Washington.
Hillary's pretty much making it easy for me to finally settle on a candidate with her nasty little tactits.
Brealistic @ 8:
Nader again? give me a break. The guy is a loser and has been for years. Talk to anybody in the Green Party who worked for him last time. When things didn't go his way, he walked away. He never did anything to help make a thrid party in this country. He left the Green Party and nobody heard from him, untill his ego made him get up again to run for president. Only a fool would waste their time on Nader.
Brealistic @ 8:
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah!
No, wait, let me catch my breath. OK, I'm better now.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah!
What does Nader do when he isn't running for president? I never hear his name until a presidential election pops up.
slippy hussein toad @ 12:
I agree. Please don't start that voting for Nader stuff again. Nader is an ego maniac.
diamondmc @ 23:
i have a hunch that, like spitzer, nader is in it for the PYT...(hot young ladies)....i just wish he'd be more honest about it....
Brealistic @ 8:
It went so well the last time people voted for Nader.
Brealistic @ 8:
Nader isn't even running. He just told your dumb ass that shit so you would send him some cash.
Hillary blew it! She could have taken the high road and defended Obama against the bogus right wing attacks on Obama and his pastor, just as Clinton's own pastor did.
She would have looked big and impressive, instead she looks small and petty. We already have a small and petty President, We don't need another.
ohio progressive (typical white person) @ 27:
What women in her right mind, would go out with that fossil?
Filthy Harry @ 7:
She doesn't have to damage Obama, as that would hurt her cred too. It seems more likely that if she doesn't get the nod, she'll play the victim card, claim the system treated her unfairly (i.e., Michigan and Florida and however they get decided, etc) and that the voters really want her the most, and then continue running as an Independent (a la Lieberman).
She wouldn't win, of course, but she'd split Obama's support and then he wouldn't either. Voila - we get four hellish years of McSame and she gets another shot to run against him in 2012, when she'll get to look like the "maverick."
Keith @ 30:
You hit the nail right on the head. I think that pissed me off more then anything else she has done up to this point.
Keith @ 30:
It could be worse, we're not married to her....God Bless You Bill, I'd be eating Cheesburgers, Krispy Kremes and smoking cigars every day too...it's cheaper than Divorce.
pissed off patricia @ 20:
Thanks,
I read the book too. This guy is amazing. They keeps saying we don't know much about Obama but do little to find out.
diamondmc @ 31:
There are always those who's affections can be bought...case in point, any woman who has received Gene Simmons' "Love".
pissed off patricia @ 25:
He speeds around in his Corvair with the seatbelts unbuckled.
I hope.
Seems what is lacking here is the DNC showing true leadership.
It starts to beg the question that if the DNC leadership - including the super delegates getting off their collective hands and pledging one way or the other - CAN THEY BE RUSTED TO LEAD THE COUNTRY?
Some might say its premature (let all the states be heard blah, blah, blah), but true leaders are able to see clearly through the fog of imperfect information and put a stake in the ground.
Seems the issue is not Hillary or Obama - its the DNC leadership.
Brealistic @ 8:
Indeed, vote for a candidate who has run numerous times and never come close to winning. Really shake things up, bet on the horse that always loses.
ashton @ 39:
Yes betting on the losing horse allows the JACKASS to win.
People do a lot of image management with themselves in polls, even annonymously. I'm convinced a great many people who answer 'no' when asked if race or gender will affect their vote are simply telling themselves a happy little story so they can feel good about themselves.
Ask yourself this. Why, after all the catastrophes of the last eight years, is any republican, much less Mcbush, getting anything like 44% in the polls? Are people stupid?
This is going to be a squeaker, with McCain winning a narrow majority which he will then use to govern, as did W., as if he had won in a landslide. And the exit polls will show people voting for him because he had more 'experience' than Obama, or because he was more 'reliable' than Clinton, but of course racism and sexism will have nothing to do with it.
Hillary's minister was just on MSNBC standing up for Rev. Wright. Is Hillary now going to walk away from her minister?
The DNC heads need to very quickly pull Hillary aside and demand that she stop this suicidal, ME or nothing campaign. This selfish woman deserves to be abandoned by the party as a traitor for helping McCain.
Left&Left @ 29:
Actually Nader is running he announced it a few weeks back on Meet the Press. Sadly, I heard it. Haven't heard much about it since.
Our delusional president will be speaking at 10:15 this morning about the progress in Iraq. He will say the progress comes from the Iraqis being able to take on whoever they are fighting. I don't know if he'll mention the air support from the US.
Keith @ 30:
What impressed me is Obama did not through his pastor under the bus. Loyalty is a great sigh of wisdom and leadership. Lets get it on. Ignore Hillary and lets get on with the fight against McGrampa while the jugular is exposed. To much time has been waisted.
Go Obama !!!
I figured it wouldn't last long. After a healthy bout of feigned outrage, even those redneck idiots, that were going on YouTube saying the Reverend was racist scum, and a porch monkey that he oughta be strug up, must have realized they are, INDEED, fucking racist assholes themselves. Of course, they'd never admit that, so they slunk back into their crypts. The rest of America can't focus more than one week, can they?
Joementum @ 37:
You stole my line.
John Doheny @ 41:
Seriously!?!? You have to ask that!?!?
psssst!
I got a secret!
Peoples is stupid in staggering quantities!
Hillary under fire in Bosnia
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FDP_u2YDrFA
diamondmc @ 42:
I saw that too. That minister wasn't the minister when Bill and Hillary went to that church but he was involved with the church at the time.
When are we going to hit the Rev. Wright saturation point? Some poll that was taken suggests people want to hear more from Obama about race. I wonder how many of those same people saw or read his last speech on the subject. How much more could he say?
{{{2 liberalHUSSEINmoderation Says}}}: Mornin Sunshines!
Well…I still say polls schmolls…though this one does sound favorable for my candidate…I just trust polls about as much as I trust anyone that says, “trust me”.
====>> Trust me, I agree with you all the way.
Brealistic @ 8:
Interesting moniker, especially since your post is as far from realistic as it can be.
John Doheny @ 41:
The Dems have the numbers and can win if united. Just remember, the SUPREME COURT APPOINTMENTS. The court will be totally right wing and your rights will continue to erode. So to those who say they will vote for McGrampa if their candidate does not win.
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!
Dr. Acula @ 51:
I wonder if Rush Limbaugh recently opined that listeners should push voting for Nader...
Ruthless Last Throes People @ 48:
Aaahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 11:
Basically its what Regan did to Ford. Attacked Ford mercilessly in '76 so Carter could beat Ford, then in '80 Regan destroyed Carter.
But considering that she is trailing Obama, and going aggressive will probably hurt her poll numbers more than Obama's it's hard to see what she hopes to accomplish this go round. Think about it. Most serious analysts say that HRC can only win if Obama drops the ball big time. That being the case, then why go negative? If her winning is in Obama's hands, why not be as clean, straight shooting and positive as she can be so she looks good?
Verdillac @ 47:
I saw a clip this morning of bill clinton saying if people don't want to get beat up they shouldn't get into politics. Immediately my first thought was of Hillary asking why she always gets the first question and saying no one offered her a pillow. Gotta watch what you say there Bill, it works for both sides.
Verdillac @ 47:
I honestly ask the same thing. Why would this election be anywhere near close, when you see the complete damage the Repugs have done as far back as when Clinton was still Prez. I don't understand it at all. You go on blogs, right or left, and it sounds like even the right is pretty much fed up with Rethugs. And yet the "polls" show it a squeaker? I don't think so. Somebody doctors polls.
100% of all polls can be manipulated to say anything you want them to.
Hey John, maybe you should put up a poll? Then we could send the results to MSNBC and see if it airs.
I didn't start out anti-Hillary, but I am now. In her 'all-or-nothing' bid for the nomination she's lost whatever grace or charm she may have had. I always kind of respected her for her lifelong dedication to her chosen path.
Everyone focuses on leadership and experience, etc., etc., but the things that touch us the most, and are the most lasting, always come from the heart!!! That's why I like Obama: he gets that.
(How would you feel, if even once, for a fleeting moment, you felt Chimpy actually, really got 'us'? See what I mean? He never has. Aloof snotty prick.)
i'm voting for nader.
i'm incredibly, incredibly stupid.
Verdillac @ 47:
now look...before someone stupidly points out my use of bad grammar (which, for effect, is presently intentional) the above comment was inspired greatly by the captions on pictures at LOL Cats.
Its time the MSM quit pushing this horse race, and tell the truth. The only way Hillary can win, is to win every state by 70% or steal it. If she steals it, that will destroy the democratic party, and we get four more years of killing, death and war.
"But it’s the personal impressions of Clinton that should be of the greatest concern"
Uhm, to whom? Why does this blog continue pretending that both candidates are on equal footing?
Dr. Acula @ 51:
Change your moniker to pie-eyed dreamer!
Yep-the Democrats I love. Splitting the vote. Now there's a loser & typical Democrat statement.
The Republicans who have wrecked America, & as miserable as the Bush administration is, will
gather enough votes to elect the drooling McCain because "splitting the vote" isn't in the GOP's
vocabulary. I've been a Democrat longer than most of you & at one time, long ago, we would stick
together & win. The country wasn't perfect but it was okay. Now we have a good chance of winning
the presidency but as Democrats we will have plenty of votes for the idiot McCain. We will vote for
Nader or some other jackass insult our own candidate & do all sort of goofy Democrat loser stuff like vote for McCain :-(
that we are good for. The Republicans, on the other hand, will stick to their candidate if he was
Hitler back from the dead. How do I know. I'm from Connecticut. enough said. :-)
Clinton would have been a formidable candidate against Obama if she had kept her campaign "high-minded" -- IOW, free of nasty mudslinging and focused on the issues. It could have been a very interesting national discussion between her and Obama. She had the name recognition, the association with Bill, strong Democratic ties, etc. Lately I've seen countless people saying they once planned to vote for her or already had in a caucus/primary, but they wouldn't vote for her now in a million years because of the way she's campaigning.
Bill, Hillary, and Barack are attorneys by profession, and Bill and Barack are, in addition, smooth politicians with their own styles. OTOH, Hillary has no clue about being a savvy politician at all. Her campaigning style seems like that of a third-rate lawyer going for the throat of Barack who she must prove is a loser, with voters as the jury. Or trying to train a dog by beating it senseless. She's made the campaign a battle, not a debate of ideas and issues. She's missing the other half of the equation for success, which is to appeal to voters through the issues and her character, her reasonableness, her integrity, even her likeability. Constitutionally, she doesn't seem to have the substance to do that.
Hillary may have more exposure to Democratic politics than Barack, but she should have studied people outside her own political and financial circles. Her snide little remark, "I would have left that church...", right after her Bosnia lie isn't likely to win her one single vote. I'm glad Barack wasn't harmed by all the sensationalism.
diamondmc @ 62:
Don't expect the MSM to tell the "truth". They support McBush and as far as they are concerned they are telling the truth. There is no legitimate 4th Estate in the U.S. merely a corporate media that promotes corporate interests and the self-serving agendas of millionaire celebrity pundits and news readers.
Brealistic @ 8:
Your screen name is a joke, bud, as is any likelihood that Nader can do anything more than screw up the Democratic contender, whoever that turns out to be.
anneyhussein@66
Agreed--- I thought Clinton won many/most of the early debates.....
if she hadn't employed this kneecapping dishonest stuff, she would have been a tough opponent and strong contender....
it's rather bizarre, the road she chose to take...
Verdillac @ 61:
Can I haZ ch33zburger?
John Doheny @ 41:
Although I try to remain hopeful that you're wrong, I fear you may be right.
Maybe Bill Richardson helped Obama and hurt Clinton. No one's mentioned him.
slappy magoo @ 60:
Ralph Nader declared he's running for Prez, then just vanished. He's probably now in some unibomber shack reading his obstructionist press clippings by candle light laughing at everyone....especially his mindless supporters.
Brealistic @ 8:
Or better yet. Why don't you vote for Alf Landon? He's only slightly more dead than Nader.
As long as Obama supporters and Clinton supporters battle each other it allows the media to paint the Democratic Party as fractous and disorganized. It plays right into the Republicans and the MSM’s hand. If the party does not stop the squabbling and pointing fingers at the other side they may well hand the presidency to the Republicans. I support Obama but if he does not secure the nomination there is no way in hell I would vote for a Republican. Any Democrat that would vote for a Republican because they are pissed that their candidate didn’t get the nomination will be contributing to a potential Republican victory. Republicans are anti-democratic authoritarians that walk the razors edge of treason. A Republican victory will insure the collapse of the United States. As long at the Democratic Party is divided the Republicans have a shot.
which Clinton staffer will be brave enough to tell Hill to drop it?
Ratface @ 65:
Exactly.
Left&Left @ 73:
He's New Mexico and Arizona working on getting ballot access and raising money. You can read all about it here.
Hillary is acting like a spoiled kid. She wasn't interested in getting Florida and Michigan's votes to count until she began losing. Now she is stomping her foot and demanding the rules of the game be changed just so she can have things her way. She needs a timeout.
Brealistic @ 8:
But why would we vote for someone who simply can not win?
A vote for Nader is a vote for McCain pure and simple.
diamondmc @ 62:
Can't steal the election unless a percentage of Democrats vote for McCain. The Republicans will vote
for McCain. They don't give a rat's ass that a Republican in the White-house will continue to make life
miserable for all concerned. Republicans & Democrats alike. We Democrats could learn from these Cretans.
pissed off patricia @ 79:
Clinton, like Bush, panders to, hopes for and cultivates the worst in Americans-- ignorance, apathy, racism, bigotry....
pissed off patricia @ 79:
I used to scoff at the notion posted here by several regulars -- that Shillary is a rethug -- but the more I see of her antics, the more I'm beginning to see "the light"...
killtheppor @ 78:
New Mexico, eh? I see he still has that sharp mind for strategy.
Oh, and I fixed that link for you.
Of course not from MSNBC...home of olbermann.
I'm pretty sure that since Obama didn't put this behind him via his "grand speech" that Wright's not going anywhere.
"security concerns" hah..that's not what I read; I read the church he was going to appear at rescinded its offer.
No bias in news?
Pretty bold comments from Hillary:
"You know, you can always go to the convention. That’s what credential fights are for,” she said. “Let’s have the Democratic party go on record against seating the Michigan and Florida delegations three months before the general election? I don’t think that will happen. I think they will be seated. So that’s where we’re headed if we don’t get this worked out.”
She's absolutely right.
Dems telling her to quit and ignore MI and FL need to revisit 2000.
I have to admit I am just STUNNED by her. Watching her speak and seeing her demonic determination is just jaw dropping. This is a woman I DID have a lot of respect for...I never LIKED her much but I did at least respect her. now that is gone as well
To the People of Pennsylvania:
People like Joe Scarboro keep saying the blue collar white male workers would not vote of Obama. He is saying that blue collar worker are stupid and prejudice. I grew up in Philly and know how the jobs left and the people had to fight for good jobs causing racial friction. Obama mentioned your plight and understands you are getting screwed too, not just minorities.
Joe and others like Hannity and O'Reilly want you to be angry at Obama painting him as a racist and vote for Hillary so they can defeat her.
The Republicans want to eliminate unions (remember Reagan?) and send jobs overseas and keep this war going for corporate profit. I think Obama should not state that he will end the war in 16 months though but he has a better chance of bringing the world in on this. The polls stated that he has the best chance of uniting the country (perhaps the world in time).
Look at how the campaigns are being run. Obama's campaign has bee fiscally sound with little debt. Hillary had to borrow money, and owes millions in debt and so is McBush's. That tells you something about how the economy will be run. Don't just look at the man or his race, but the people working around him and not his pastor. Remember, the FOX boys have noting to fight with but race and fear. Hillary has proven to be unreliable emotionally and loyal to the party. It has already been exposed.
People of Pennsylvania, lets end this infighting and vote to end this. Don't vote for McGrampa as a protest vote, you are only damaging yourself and don't vote for Hillary because you are only prolonging the inevitable.
Honestly, I'm so incredibly tired of them fighting each other instead of fighting McCain that I've all but stopped paying attention at this stage. Whenever they finally choose the frontrunner I'll look into it more, but until then it's almost just pointless. I already know where they (mostly) stand, I already voted in the primary... I'm just done for now.
Rusty Shackleford @ 84:
I hear he's working his way around to Utah!
To anyone out there casting their vote for Nader. Why don't you just vote for McCain, or better yet, stay home. Why bother? Really, what's the point, unless you just want the Republicans to win? Nader doesn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of winning, nor would I want him to. Nader supporters know that and so does Nader. It makes no sense. The guy has absolutely nothing that qualifies him. He was a spoiler in 2000, and I believe helped give Bush the White House. You can't tell me that having Gore wouldn't have made a huge difference in terms of where we are right now as a nation. In the first place, we would not be in Iraq, and our Constitutional liberties would certainly not be on the chopping block. I would agree that the Dems are far from perfect, but at this point in time, they are our best hope for restoring democracy and getting us off a crash course to self-destruction. So, please Nader supporters, get over yourselves, and don't do something so childish and stupid as vote for Nader, unless of course you really want McCain to win, in which case, just vote for him.
Josh @ 85:
I think the Clinton stalwarts in MI and FL should just stay home in November 08....their state parties messed up, and suffered penalty from Dean....
if you can't see past your loyalty to your candidate, stay away....vote for nader or bin laden or donald duck, whoever you prefer
anneyhussein @ 66:
If my spouse cheated on me, I would have left him/her. How about that Hillary? What a hypocrite !!
i seriously doubt bill clinton wants obama to win the general. bill probably wants to try running his wife as a surrogate for a 3rd term again in 2012, rather than in 2016.
that would probably explain the "kitchen sink" thuggery, or the kneecapping, whatever you want to call it.
it would probably also explain why you hear these strange assertions coming from the clinton camp that only mccain and hillary are qualified, only mccain and hillary love america.
it might also explain why bill didn't do much campaigning for john kerry in 2004 -he was probably hoping bush would win, so hillary could run today.
remember, the clintons and the bushes are tight family friends. and remember, the firm run by mark penn works for both mccain and clinton.
clinton and mccain are unquestionably the 2 candidates favored by corporations -just look at their donor lists.
my point is, with the clintons and bushes, it's a dog and pony show, to keep both in power to serve their moneyed leashholders, not ordinary americans. they trot out the big tough dogs (the bushes) for a while, and then when everyone gets tired of the dogs, they trot out the nice, pretty ponies (the clintons).
mccain is just the bush meat puppet this year -and don't be surprised if jeb lands on his ticket.
neither mccain or hillary have shown even the slightest signs of leadership -they're both useful idiots who can easily be misled into, say, launching an illegal war of aggression on a nation which never attacked or even threatened us.
whether or not you like obama, his campaign is essentially a "from-the-ground-up" grassroots movement, certainly moreso than the two stooges he's running against.
and, getting back on topic, i do think obama's weathered the wright controversy rather deftly, and i'm looking forward to the closer scrutiny the other two candidates are about to come under. discussing mccain's end-timer pastor, john hagee, or hillary's creepy cult church out in the open should be real enlightening... not to mention the plethora of clinton scandals about to go viral, or mccain's dad's alleged involvement in the u.s.s. liberty cover-up...
I love this country more then I love any candidate. In fact, I don't love any candidate. I don't even like any of them, just because their politicians. There's something to dislike about each of them. Pick your own specific. So I won't be relying on polls for my opinion. Or C&L (thankfully, they don't endorse or favor).
And I love you guys(well, some of you), but I won't be thinking of the blog when I vote.
I'd like to vote for someone willing to solve THIS PROBLEM! Because with the tanking markets, folding banks, ridiculous debt, someone will have to face it.
Ash"Hussy"Williams @ 89:
I heard it was Guam.
If somehow Hillary manages to steal the nomination away from the rightful candidate, I WILL NOT vote for her. The choice between her and McCain is no choice. Both are power hungry, does anyone think for one second that she would give up any of the power that Bush has taken for himself and restore the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Not a chance. She will want more and she is a vindictive bitch as we can see more clearly with every passing day. With either McCain or Clinton we can expect 4 more years of the same BS. We must avoid allowing either of them to steal the presidency.
Damn, I was watching Obama's speech on the economy on MSNBC, before the speech was even over, they broke away from the speech and began talking about Rev. Wright. They should be smacked for doing that.
Negative Campaigning might work in a general sense, but Obama has built an image around changing the the tone of Washington. Every negative attack will just underscore his theme. Personally I think he believes he has nothing to hide and that talking openly and honestly with the American people ("as if the were adults") will only help him. Talk about a polar opposite to our current president...
Ratface @ 81:
That's cretin, a Cretan is an inhabitant of the island of Crete, home of the Mycenaean culture of Greece.
Funny thing was Cleopatra III, famous for Lewinskying Julius Cesare and Marc Anthony was Mycenean, a decendent of one of Alexander's Generals Ptolemy the Soter (Savior).
I'm willing to wait on the final nomination until the fat lady sings
But not Rose O'Donnell.
EJG @ 96:
OK, now that's just crossing the line.
And seriously? You would be that petty to not vote for her if it came to her and McCain?
Everything's not coming up RosIe.
Bill Maher said he trusts McCain to answer the phone at 3:00 a.m.
He'd already be up to take a pee.
ysbaddaden @ 99:
Haaaahaaha. I suppose in some areas we could probably learn a lot from those Cretans :)
ysbaddaden @ 102:
Trying to take a pee.
Left&Left @ 43:
So let me get this straight Sen. Obama can't win unless Sen. Clinton drops out.... ummm he can't even beat Sen. Clinton how do you expect him to beat Sen. McCain
FALSE EQUIVALENCE:
Hillary and her minions attack Obama
-- 3AM phone call
-- South Carolina
-- SNL
-- Race - link to Jesse Jackson
-- attack on plagiarism(false)
-- Ferraro(need I type more?)
-- Hillary's new 'black' campaign exec attacks Obama
-- meeting with Scaithe
-- Attack on patriotism
-- McBush and Hillary are better candidates
-- McBush and Hillary care about America
-- Slick Willie participates in all the above.
Obama Attacks Hillary(?):
-- open your ledger
-- Power says "Monster" (released from campaign)
-- Wright (released from campaign)
When you say the Dems are infighting remember these things
1) the media is not covering issues, they are presenting food for gossip
2) Hillary is feeding the media meme mumble machine
3) Obama has been acting like an adult
4) McCain = Boosh
robyn williams @ 104:
By campaigning on the basis of issues and tying McCain to GW Bush. Make the choice crystal clear, and if Hillary's supporters want to be allied with Bush and McCain, that's where they belong. Obama still wins the GE.
pissed off patricia @ 97:
you mean you were watching on GE!
robyn williams @ 104:
It's not that simple. Look in the post.
She's below McCain. He's above McCain.
The Wright effect and Nader would be the least of our problems. The CNN poll I caught this morning had 44% of Democratic voters polled going to McCain if their nominee, either Clinton or Obama did not secure the nomination. I feared this would happen. Looks like we better get used to the idea of saying President McCain. To all those people who've cleverly thrown around terms like Hillarybot or Obamaton and constructed those wonderful character assassinations and abused everyone who disagreed with them I'd like to say "Thanks a lot Assholes" you really helped out.
robyn williams @ 104:
Her's already beaten Hillary. Wake your hateful ass up.
The Tide is turning! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9ubMQX7WE
robyn williams @ 104:
No. The race is already over, mathematically. Hillary is just hanging on as a bitter obstructionist, trying to destroy Obama's chances also. If you want to fear McCain, feel free. He will lose in Nov. because he supports this immoral war. He keeps claiming the surge is working yet he wants the troops to remain in that civil war hell hole. A losing argument. Even the Repubs know Obama will blast crazy Johnny. They want Hillary in Nov. or for her to stay in the race to dirty up or scandalize Obama.
Ash"Hussy"Williams @ 100:
It is not being petty at all, it is refusing to vote for more of the same. She may claim she is a Democrat but look closely and you will see she is lying. She is using Rovian tactics to try to pull Obama down. She is financed by big business and owes them, not the people of this country. And I repeat, she is a vindictive bitch. Like Bush who started the war in Iraq to settle a score with Saddam.....maybe we should ask who she thinks she needs to settle a score with. I look at Hillary and I DO NOT see a democratic candidate, I see a Republican (Like Lieberman) who is claiming to be a Democrat and those who don't look past the costume are being deceived.
Obama is funded by the people of the US, many of them contributing small amounts that really add up because of the number of supporters he has. He does not owe corporate America like Clinton does.
Wake up and demand that Hillary backs off, she can not legitimately win the nomination. Only vote for her if she steals the nomination and you like what we have gotten for the past 8 years because it would be more of the same.
anneyhussein @ 106:
anneyhussein @ 106:
Nice try but you didn't answer the question about half of the democracts are align with Sen. Clinton and the Independents have gone back to McCain how does Sen. Obama win the G.E. if he alienates the Clinton voters
Peter G @ 109:
DAMN it! What the heck?
What was it on?
Way to start off my day :(
Polls are all over the map now, so I'm not sure if they're saying anymore than the electorate's mood this week. The question is their mood on election day.
Additionally, GE=NBC=MSNBC, and the Wall Street Journal is a conservative rag, now owned by Rupert Murdoch=FAUX News.
The presidunce is
speakingyelling about all the "progress" in Iraq.Left&Left @ 112:
Mathematically, Obama hasn't the 2025 delegates lined up to close the nomination, and probably never will.
By your logic McCain should run unopposed.
Ash"Hussy"Williams @ 108:
Look a little closer they are both within the margin of error
Obama is definitely the adult in the bunch, and actually speaks to Americans as though they were adults. How refreshing. Hillary Clinton continues to lower herself, while Obama continues to rise above the fray in a calm steadfast fashion, despite all the unfair insults and accusations, which includes trying to hold him accountable for a few inflammatory comments made by his minister. Hillary apparently wants to give this election to the Republicans.
Ash"Hussy"Williams @ 115:
Watching the campaign when it first started I was quite interested.But now like alot of other people in Canada I've quickly lost interest due to the garbage that is now happening. I see grown, very intelligent adults running around acting like 3 year olds.
I thought this election was going to be different. But now I see it will be much of the same, all about race and religion.
Americans should be telling their politicians to get a grip and get on with things.
Obviously things are still going to be more of the same not matter what
Anyone listening to or watching Busholini's lie=fest?
EJG @ 113:
It is not being petty at all, it is refusing to vote for more of the same. She may claim she is a Democrat but look closely and you will see she is lying. She is using Rovian tactics to try to pull Obama down. She is financed by big business and owes them, not the people of this country. And I repeat, she is a vindictive bitch. Like Bush who started the war in Iraq to settle a score with Saddam.....maybe we should ask who she thinks she needs to settle a score with. I look at Hillary and I DO NOT see a democratic candidate, I see a Republican (Like Lieberman) who is claiming to be a Democrat and those who don't look past the costume are being deceived.
Obama is funded by the people of the US, many of them contributing small amounts that really add up because of the number of supporters he has. He does not owe corporate America like Clinton does.
Wake up and demand that Hillary backs off, she can not legitimately win the nomination. Only vote for her if she steals the nomination and you like what we have gotten for the past 8 years because it would be more of the same.
OK, so let's just say she's a fiscal neocon in disguise, right leaning, "corporationy", whatever. She still has left-leaning social and foreign policy agendas.
I'm not saying she's my first choice, but by God, if it comes down to her and McCain, she can have my vote.
its time to put on our thinking caps and think !!! and kill em over there smurk smile bush sucks noodles!
powell for resident of the new ninted states!
ysbaddaden @ 116:
by they even Chuck Todd said this poll was slanted in favor of Sen Obama ....he said "In addition, we oversampled African-Americans in order to get a more reliable cross-tab on many of the questions we asked in this poll regarding Sen. Barack Obama's speech on race and overall response to last week's Rev. Jeremiah Wright dustup." So this is not a fair and balanced look at the general opinion
robyn williams @ 119:
Oh snap.
robyn williams @ 114:
stick a link in there somewhere so you can have a little credibility.
tyree @ 126:
I thought William Powell was dead.
http://www.mustachesummer.com/images/WilliamPowell.gif
robyn williams @ 114:
I never said that this wasn't a close battle. The election isn't tomorrow. Things will come together by the fall because we progressives realize that NO ONE want McCain in the WH. To say independents are for McCain is a complete lie.
The fat cats learned early on to subvert the language so that the poison they hand you has a sweet sounding name.
I contribute to both Obama and Nader.
Nader's voice is essential. He speaks the unvarnished truth. He is the only one talking about repealing Taft Hartley, that abomination.
If nothing else, then, rescind 29 USC 7.164 (b), the infamous so called 'Right to Work' (you should call it the Right to Work for Less, which is the actual truth of the matter).
Until someone else starts talking about getting rid of this scandalous provision, and the many other things that Nader alone brings up, then we need to hear him.
Vote for who you will when you are in the voting booth but let's keep the discourse healthy.
Who would argue that the Abolitionist Party should not have gone forth. They finally got their guy with Abraham Lincoln.
Who would argue that the Woman's Suffrage efforts should not have gone forth or that Teddy Roosevelt should not have placed suffrage in his progressive platform.
I will tell you who, the Flat Earth Society.
Are you a member. Just keep sucking up that Corporate Media tripe and you will be completely satisfied with the spectrum of political dialogue that is the width of a human hair.
You will elect Clinton or McCain and there will nary a difference.
Peter G @ 109:
cnn has one mission only - demonize Democratic candidates.
ysbaddaden @ 130:
he is i was talking about tyrone powell , blood in the sand , had to say something my new sheltie puppys eating my sox off !
Ash"Hussy"Williams @ 128:
robyn williams @ 104:
Independents are against this stupid war....period. Poll that.
robyn williams @ 135:
Is that one of those witty comebacks lol
and besides bush is on cnn selling the airforce on iraq! thoes airforce guys are dim !
Left&Left @ 136:
but that doesn't mean they will vote for Sen. Obama
robyn williams @ 139:
Independents hate McCain's war stance, but they won't vote for Obama? Where are you going with this? Don't tell you're another of those crazy Nader lovers.
pissed off patricia @ 25:
Nothing. He works behind the scenes on consumer issues, but that is it. His entire platform is "corporations suck". While I don't entirely disagree, he has absolutely no qualifications aside from consumer rights issues.
On a side note, Hillary's scorched earth strategy is so completely disgusting that I can't see myself voting for her if she wins the nomination. She has essentially thrown Obama under the bus by saying that he is not fit to be commander in chief. Her deception and nasty campaign tactics have made her unfit, in my opinion, to be the next president. Besides, I am sick at the possibility of her winning. If she wins, this country will have been in the control of TWO families for the past 20 years. There is something fundamentally wrong with that. We need a new person in the white house, preferrably Obama.
tyree @ 134:
I like Tyrone Power in Mark of Zorro
http://members.tripod.com/~zorro23/power.jpg
But some say Reed Hadley was the best in Zorro's Fighting Legion.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stomptokyo.com/img-m6/...
In fact, it was so influential that it influenced Republic Studios Lone Ranger starring Lee Powell as the masked man of the plains.
This is him in an earlier chapter before he put his mask on
http://www.palletmastersworkshop.com/images/LeePowell.jpg
I must admit that I like Obama more after seeing his Pastor's sermon. The idea of a Presidential candidate whose long-time mentor holds such strong critical leftist views of foreign policy and social justice gave me a woody.
CoIntelPro - against Divisive Democrats @ 133:
Left&Left @ 140:
wow didn't take long for the trolls to come out this morning this must be a land speed record.... lol
CoIntelPro - against Divisive Democrats @ 133:
LOL. I'm looking for the name of one of their hosts that I despise and I stumble across this:
"Obama too liberal? He says he's a progressive... a post-partisan uniter. But others brand Barack Obama with the L-word. Is he "too liberal" to be President?" on AC360 tonight.
I think it's Mike Galanos.
Nobody is campaigning against McCain right now, so all he's doing is running around trying to look like an experienced statesman (and not doing that great a job at it). If they would go to his website and read his views, there's no true Democrat in their right mind who would vote for McCain; I have to believe that once the campaigning starts for the general and the differences are delineated between McCain and either Obama or Clinton, the Democrats will do the right thing and not vote for another neocon.
Left&Left @ 136:
Obama Boy @ 92:
I meant to post this earlier. Have you seen what Kathleen Willey has written that Hillary did to the women pursued by Bill? Pretty hateful stuff.
And never in a million years would I have recommended that anybody watch Hillary: the Movie produced by conservatives, but some might find it of interest if you can tolerate the rightwing commentators, including Ann Coulter and Bob Novak, and the conservative philosophy laid out toward the end. For the first time, I began to understand the rabid hatred of the right wing for Hillary. The Travelgate information is true, and Hillary is shown in all her true colors. I couldn't watch any more of the movie after that. It runs about a total of 1 1/2 hours.
I really don't want her in the White House ever again.
Login or Register to post comments.