<I>This Week</i>: Cokie Roberts Sneers At The Responsible Plan To End The War, Says Most Americans Interested In Winning
By Nicole Belle Sunday Apr 06, 2008 11:00am
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
It's hard for me at times to not think of the mainstream media as this monolithic Borg-like hive mind designed merely to keep the status quo and tell you how you should think. And sadly, too few people have the time or inclination to do more than passively accept the information given, even if simply makes no sense. Case in point, Cokie Roberts during the panel segment of This Week with George Stephanopoulos. When Katrina Vanden Heuvel tries to bring up A Responsible Plan and the netroots/alternative media's attempts to really force the discussion of withdrawal from Iraq from the candidates they are supporting, and Roberts openly laughs at her. To Roberts, polls be damned, Americans are more concerned with winning (a concept still vaguely and defiantly undefined five years into the occupation) than leaving Iraq.
Is it any coincidence that this very subject will be of great debate this week on Capitol Hill? Vanden Heuvel tries to frame the debate to match the mood of the majority of Americans and Roberts scornfully rejects it and basically gives a preview of Petraeus's testimony, right down to the stupidly semantic defense of Cheney.
dday at Digby's Hullabaloo has more...transcripts below the fold.
VANDEN HEUVEL: …important point, and that’s why, listen, The Nation has endorsed Obama…
STEPHANOPOLOUS: I was just going to ask you…
VANDEN HEUVEL: …critically, critically. But we have also contested his framing of withdrawal. We…but this will be…
STEPHANOPOLOUS: But this is going to be a split in the party. You all are backing a plan that a lot of Congressional challengers are backing saying immediate withdrawal, unconditional...
VANDEN HEUVEL: that's right...
[cross talk]
VANDEN HEUVEL: There are 42 Congressional challengers...
ROBERTS: But no major Presidential candidates are saying that, because they're sitting there saying, “look, we've been there, we've seen it, we think it's an irresponsible thing to do.”
VANDEN HEUVEL: It is not, but you know what, the responsible thing to do is withdraw. [Roberts chuckles] If we withdraw responsibly, the region would be more stable in the long term, America will be restored as a responsible global leader, and there are 42 challengers, you are absolutely right Cokie, who have a responsible plan to withdraw.
ROBERTS: Convincing the electorate of that, I think would be very difficult, and I also agree that the notion that Sen. McCain and Sen. Graham you heard this morning putting forward, that Americans would prefer to win, is…
VANDEN HEUVEL: But what is winning? This war is unwinnable. There are no military solutions. And Cokie, Americans are already behind this, 2/3 of Americans believe this war was a mistake to fight. And when Dick Cheney said to ABC's Martha Raddatz last week, "I don't care what Americans think." …
ROBERTS: That’s not exactly what he said. He said “So.”
VANDEN HEUVEL: …The contempt, the disdain for Americans and for what this war has done to the military, to our economy, and to our future as a nation. If you care about responsible...
Login or Register to post comments.
Repunditan!
Cokie Roberts Sucks.
cokie needs a class in "Just War theory", Iraq is not a just war, nor occupation, therefore it was doomed from the start.
Cokie Roberts quote "tha't not what he said, he said so."
John Mellencamp quote "sometimes life is too ridiculous to live"
This snickering was so unprofessional. At these salaries, the least these uber conservative pundits could do is try to act like professional mature beings. Apparently, that's way too much to ask from these ignorant fools. I thought it was Wills at first. It seemed more typical of his behavior toward Katrina. Katrina is usually more effective in dealing with these idiots. I guess she was taken aback by the attack coming from Cokehead rather than little Willy.
Cokie's blouse looks like astronaut pajamas.
Lol!!! Cokie...her fucking name should disqualify her!
Consent!
This Week: Cokie Roberts Sneers At The Responsible War, Says Most Americans Interested In Winning
Too late
It's now about saving face
For the warmongers
Not the soldier getting his face shot off.
Cokie Roberts? LOL!
I simply cannot take seriously a woman that has had so many face lifts over the last 20 years that she now speaks through her navel.
Cokie got her nickname when she used to share McDonald's spoons with prince georgie.
McDonald's straws, same diff.
Cokie used to be admirable-about 20-25 years ago.
That little chuckle bit is very immature. And then interrupting her to say "He said "So"" when she said Cheney said he didn't care what Americans think and smugging up after that...Well he DID say say exactly that:
Raddatz: "So — you don’t care what the American people think?"
Cheney: "No, I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls..."
I guess Cokie hears only what she wants to hear.
.
REMEMBER:
THEY COLLECT PAY CHECKS TO LIE!
.
"Senators Flaky and Huckleberry sez Amurkans wanna win . . . and I buweeve they're right."
Why is this hag still on teevee?
Tired old Republican talking points hag got slapped down by the witty and very sexy Katrina.
Cokie is the daughter of Hale Boggs, a conservative Southern Democrat. She should never be on a panel as the "liberal." Unfortunately, most tv associate producers seem to be barely out of their teens, know only that she has a Democratic tie, and are totally unaware that some Democrats are and were as conservative as most Republicans.
Katrina more than held her own against Cokie, Bert's sidekick Ernie (aka Dan Senor), and His Pomposity George of Will.
Man, Marcy D'Arcy (nee Rhodes) is aging horribly.
Cokie became famous back in 1991 when she admitted on the same show that she supported the Gulf War but didn't want her children to serve in the military.
The show is useless. She and George Will are plastic evil wonder twins.
miss_kitty Hussein @ 12:
Ehh...when did wimmin ever argue fair?
I'm sure glad somebody else watches this shit, so I don't have too...
Thanks Nicole, what you wrote was exactly what I was pretty much thinking as I watched this yesterday. To think over 15 years ago I actually respected Cokie, but over the years of the Bush II Cabal I have discovered her to be the neoconservative warmonger that she actually is. Her type is only concerned with saving the face of conservatives, rather than admit the collosal failures of their thinking that got us all into the mess that is Iraq.
Just wait until the next (D) President is in office. I am willing to bet the house that all these neocon MSM pundits will be blaming Iraq (the war that had NOTHING to do with 9/11 in the first place) all on the democrats and "libruls".
I saw this on TV and it is always very very interesting when Cokie Roberts shows her true colors--rhymes with rich, as they say in the trade. Have you ever seen a more effete and flagrant example of republican Barbara Bush attitude? Why Stephanopolous continues to have dinosaurs like Will and Roberts as regulars on his panel makes his panel more comedy than substance. Hilarious.
She, and others like her, are so stuck in the we're Americans & we're winners mentality that they would let the war drag on forever. Winner take all? I think not, more like winner lose all.
They have fallen into Bin Laden's trap, he knows you can't beat us in battle and he is destroying the economy and the American way of life and these fools are letting it happen in the name of victory.
diamondmc @ 20:
Exactly.
I can't get the wmv video to load or download .. anyone else?
[I couldn't either. I've let them know. QT works-Sitemonitor]
Roberts has long been a rat in ugly clothing, Their is a story going around the hill that she is really kristol in drag, however its proven untrue as her dick is bigger than his.
If she thinks this war is winnable perhaps she should get herself and her family to fight it.
This endless war will be the end of us.
why should i care what cokie says? she's been wrong about this from the get-go. all the people who thought it would be great idea, STILL think it's a great idea, most likely due to sheer embarrassement then anything else at this point.
cokie is ginning up for some cheney love
Cokie's brother is probably the biggest lobbyist in DC--Tommy Boggs. Her mother was also a congresswoman who took over her father's seat.
Last night I was checking out who John Stewart was going to have on for guests this week and lo and behold, Coke Roberts will be on promoting some half-assed book she has written.
She has done a complete about face and I can't figure out her support for this war.
Win what?
Was the goal to:
1. Kill all terrorists in Iraq? (um... nope didn't win this)
2. Find WMD? (Nope, still haven't found any.)
3. Get cheap oil so that oil prices can be back below $1.00 like the good ol' days. (aw hell no.)
4. Set up a stable government? (we can't even define what that is here in the USA!)
5. Kill Sadam Hussein? hmm... WOO HOO!!! WE WON!!! HELL YAH, AMERICA'S #1! ALL RIGHT! LETS GET THOSE TROOPS HOME ASAP!
Oh, wait, the troops aren't coming home yet are they? I guess that wasn't the goal either... >_<
Teleken @ 23:
yeah that bin ladens a crafty old corpse!
If you want your Representatives to vote no, you need to tell them . Here's how:
Email your Senators and Representative, and ask your friends and relatives to join you:
http://www.democrats.com/iraq-petition
Cokie, you're just a pro war "devout" Catholic hypocrite. You should pay more attention at church and listen to what Jesus teaches or just stop going. You make me ill.
I thought Cokie was supposed to be the Liberal guest on these shows. I guess that little pretense has fallen by the wayside.
What they need, is to bring back the really wacky liberal, that is so obnoxious, nobody wants to be like that person, who gets up and spouts the most extreme and wacky comments so that they can snicker and say; "I guess we've heard from the liberals."
Only, its getting really hard to say something outlandish. It might distract people with actual news, like; "Very few people in the US support this protracted war for Contractors in Iraq."
Teleken, no. Cokie Roberts isn't stuck in anything. She just says what she has heard other people saying. That's ALL SHE DOES. She is entirely useless. She doesn't have any thoughts or ideas of her own. She is an actor playing a role, using lines she heard other people say.
At least George Will tries to come up with his own thoughts.
Why you other people watch this crap is really beyond me. These are actors, who get all dolled up to go on TV and recite talking points. By watching, you encourage and enable them.
winning? really?
how do we win? define victory and then maybe people will believe you.
in almost every war, victory was defined before hand. however this time, there is no possible victory, hence we need to stay there forever.. get it?
During the 1980 presidential race, George Will opined that Ronald Reagan bested Jimmy Carter in a presidential debate with a "thoroughbred performance". He said that on-air, on the same Sunday show on which he has now been pontificating for decades. Trouble was, he had helped prepare Reagan for that debate, a fact he neglected to mention. Obviously, he was not fired for his unethical behavior.
His long time colleague on that show, Cokie Roberts, has never acted that dishonestly (to the best of my knowledge). But she most surely is that barfly that Edward R. Murrow once warned us about. The one with the monstrous ego, all because she has a camera pointed at her.
Both and Will and Roberts have "jobs" on TV for one simple reason: to serve the interests of corporate America. Period.
Teleken @ 23:
You think that's really what's happening? As if Bush and Co. wouldn't realize that? How about this-- it's all an inside job to protect the dollar and profit off of war. Why is it so hard to believe that a man who would lie about a war (which has killed 4,000+ people) would also be directly involved in screwing over America for personal gain?
To add more. Saddam Hussein wanted to start trading in Euros for oil, Bush got wind of this and knew he had to be killed.
Poor old Cokie. The older she gets, the dimmer she glows.
What is winning Cokie? We have been there five friggin years. What the Hell! They should have an Average American on that panel to wipe the floor with her! These talking heads are shameless.
Maybe someone should inform Dopey Roberts that McSenile and Richard Simmons' twin brother Graham-cracker , aren't exactly what anyone would refer to as a pair that has a handle on the pulse of the American people..........
Frank Dufek @ 40:
So now oil will be denominated in Yuan!
YEEEAH! Weeee Yuan!!! LOLOL!
Convince the electorate that responsible withdrawal is the way to go in Iraq?
CONVINCE ???
We've been SCREAMING for it for a LONG TIME already !!!
(Site monitor - wmv vid works now .. thanks!)
emphasa @ 31:
6. Create a full employment program for the Military/Industrial/Congressional Complex with stratospheric war profits? (You bet, they are winning that one everyday.)
7. Have endless war so King George, the dummy (with his Evil Ventriloquist) can have his endless war powers as
CommanderIdiot in Chief, courtesy of John Yoo et al? (You bet, winning that one everyday.)And the list goes on.
jesse ventura should have been on that show, because he would have laughed in their ugly ass faces. i also am glad others watch these shows, so i don't. thank you.
Wow. Who knew Cokie Roberts was a deceptive, delusional hack?
-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
Cokie Roberts used to be on one of the Sunday news shows and she once said, while gushing; (paraphrase) 'Oh my, when I see these military men with their chests full of medals and ribbons I just believe anything they say.'
Margaret Carlson to Imus; (paraphrase) 'we know Bush is snowing people on serious matters but thats just Bush being Bush. Going after Al Gore for trivial things is fun, its sport.'
Your serious journalists.
Well sure! We all want to win! Whatever "win" means.
There's just two snags:
1) Some contests are "unwinnable", and
2) Some contests that are "winnable" lead to Pyrrhic victories, where the cost to the winner for having gained victory is far greater than any sane person would have chosen to pay, had they been rational about it from the beginning.
We need to do a study as to why the first few comments in these pieces alway have about 5 out of the first 10 comments done by people with a lack of vocabulary. Spouting Expletives or ad hominem's takes away from the discussion. I wish those that sit on the line just waiting to say something bad about the person or persons being discussed would be more thoughtful.
Saying she sucks or talking about her clothing or what her name sounds like is childish and makes others think that the rest of the people commenting are also immature.
But about her comments, she is obviously following talking points given to her by her Corporate Sponsors. That is the real shame here, the fact that truth and real journalism is over-ridden by the Corporation that owns the Media. That is an indication of the shaving away of American rights. That is deplorable.
You're correct, Katrina usually handles these things far more adroitly. Only this time Georgie-Porgie loaded the panel up with the rightest of the right. Three against one - and four if you count George cutting Katrina's comments off in mid-point - it became pretty obvious that they weren't going to give her a chance to get any points at all - debate over. Of course she could have castrated that jerk Senor pretty easily with, 'I don't think we need to pay any attention to the spokesperson for those that started this disaster of an occupation of Iraq by throwing money around like footballs with nothing to show for it...by the way Senor, what's the deal, did you decide to take your Presidential Medal of Freedom in cash instead of something to hang around your neck?'
As for Cokie, I don't usually notice this shit but I couldn't help but feel that she had slept in whatever that outfit was...I asked my wife, who usually does notice but was busy reading the paper. She confirmed that while it may be some sort of fabric - like linen - that shows it's wrinkles, it wasn't particularly becoming and, furthermore, it was way too small for her - picked up a little weight there Cokie? Better cut back on those olives.
I'm beginning to think that we need to keep Gitmo open as a place we can send the Wills and Roberts, et. al., after the country comes to it's senses next year - and following our 2009 version of the Nuremberg Trials.
Too much rum and Cokie.
"It’s hard for me at times to not think of the mainstream media as this monolithic Borg-like hive mind designed merely to keep the status quo and tell you how you should think."
Why is it hard when this is obviously and blatantly the case? One correction -- the Borg-like mind is no happenstance but is created and maintained by rightwing billionaires who hire people to supply the narrative. The public faces aren't independent -- they're hired to do that job. And the noise factory has drones doing opposition research to be used against progressives (and making it up, if they don't find anything that can be twisted or misrepresented). The corporate media is simply part of the controlling system. I think it was Digby the other day who pointed out that the election wouldn't be between the Democrats and McCain, but between Democrats and the media.
Cokie is long overdue to be gone. I thought ABC actually got rid of her a couple years ago. And the fact that she's still on
NPR for "analysis" every Monday morning is really nauseating. She's very much a negative quantity to our national discourse.
I'm tempted to call that woman something that rhymes with "bitch"
Thanks to political blogs, in my opinion, we have finally added credible guests like Katrina to the usual administration mouth pieces.
When Cokie jumped in and corrected Katrina about Dickhead saying so instead of he didn't care was really rich. Oh, saying SO is so much better, eh Cokie? She is defending what almost everyone in this country was almost struck speechless with. SO? So all those volunteers died for a lie. SO?
That's right, le Misanthrope. "That's right." Right. Right old kooky Kokie. And no surprise she's on National Propaganda/Pentagon Radio, running the repugnican bullshit as usual. NPR, like Kokie, has turned into shit. I wouldn't give them a goddmaned dime--they get enough from the feudal Corpratocracy anyway.
Did you hear their crap analysis of Venezuela? I mean, Chavez is not perfect, but they run the lamest, non-news, COINTELPRO-style anti-Chavez propaganda every time. And that Steve Instkeep is just such a dismal shit.
Yeah - there probably are some Americans who only want to win in Iraq...but those are the ones who don't have relatives and friends in Iraq. I've got a damn good idea. Round up the relatives and friends of those who want to WIN in Iraq and let them take the place of those serving there now.
Think that would shut them up.
In other news, a recent poll found that when asked "Do you want to win?" a full 95% of Americans said they want to win.
(+/- 5% margin of error)
ysbaddaden @ 11:
You were right the first time. McDonalds quit using the spoons when the news came out that cokeheads were using them as a perfect dose measure. Cokie was around back then. You make the connection.
The queen of Versailles needs her own nickname. How about "Snorty?"
Only two kinds of people see war as sport: the abysmally stupid and the obscenely rich.
Cokie Roberts is useless and she always has been. She is totally unqualified to call herself a journalist. She represent the pin heads in America.
GO TO HELL Cokie Roberts!!!!!
"Borg-like hive mind". Myes, I like it. From now on it will be hard for me to watch the MSM on TV without those words running through my mind. They remind me of Heinlein's classic Sci-fi novel, "The Hive".
Where's Cokie's pill box hat to go with that powder blue Maggie Thatcher outfit and Barbara Bush pearl earings? You can tell by the way Cokie dresses, wears her hair and make up she's a prudish, uptight conservative.
"She, and others like her, are so stuck in the we’re Americans & we’re winners mentality that they would let the war drag on forever."
And yet: they were all only too willing to declare defeat and go home before the Kosovo War even started. Milosevic is too wily. Willy is too slick. We don't do nation building. There are mountains there! Mountains!
No, it's not about Americans as winners at all. It's about where their reptilian loyalties lie.
Newsflash: United States of America was victorious in the battle for Iraq in May, 2003! Occupation? Not so good.
re 65:Where’s Cokie’s pill box hat to go with that powder blue Maggie Thatcher outfit and Barbara Bush pearl earings? You can tell by the way Cokie dresses, wears her hair and make up she’s a prudish, uptight conservative.
To quote the McWarmonger; Trollop!
"Yeah - there probably are some Americans who only want to win in Iraq"
This nonsense would all end if someone just asked: what will it mean to win? The only way we can "win" is for Iran to win much, much bigger. And of course the neocons cannot have that.
Rightwingers want to burn it all down to the ground. They're not happy until the Iraq is a fucking ocean of blood. Maybe Cokie and her type want to drown insurgents out.
I've posted a complaint to abc.com for giving Cokie airtime for her lies. I suggest we all do the same: http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3428174&newsShow=thisweek&from=&fname=
It’s hard for me at times to not think of the mainstream media as this monolithic Borg-like hive mind designed merely to keep the status quo and tell you how you should think.
Ah,...but that's exactly the idea. As in 'manufacturing consent'. As in the Council on Foreign Relations elites (of which she is a member) passing along, through the fiction of a corp-rat-ly 'free press', their diktaten.
But the rise of the true free media of the Internet caught them by surprise, and the Potemkin Village reality that has been carefully cultivated these past 30-40 years has been cracking apart. What's behind the mask is anything but a smiley face. Hence Cokie's evil little chuckle.
"Winning" is as defined by Sally Field at the Oscars: Cokie thinks we should stay in Iraq until "They like us! The Iraqis finally like us!"
I gotta agree with Cheney here. Who gives a shit what 2/3 of Americans tell a pollster? 8 in 10 of them were gung-ho for the war in the first place. A majority of Americans believe in the death penalty. A majority believe that Jesus will be returning within their lifetimes.
Argue the occupation, for or against, on its merits and morals - not on mob rules.
Perhaps Cokie is just too intrenched inside the Beltway... most of the people that I talk to say they just want out of Iraq... and a fair number of them are ex-republicans.
Daaammmnnn....
I can smell the Ben Gay and Depends from here!
joeedugan @ 72:
Fat and stupid?
Cookie Roberts is a great example of one of those commentators (semi-politicians) who over the years have dug themselves into believing that what Americans want is actually: What Americans wanted when she was at least 10 years younger. Not only can she not keep it with the changes happening in the American society, she does not comprehend them and like many older people is afraid of changes no matter how hard they are needed. Afraid that the American voter might be right and she and all the rest of the 'GRUMPY MUMBLERS' on TV might be wrong. Therefor she and her 'GRUMPY MUMBLERS' brothers and sisters on TV will continue to spew out their aversion for the American voter, may they be Republican or Democrat.
Apart from the fact that America need a complete overhaul from the present corrupt political system with no respect for the Constitution and or the Law, this group of (seemingly settled in for live) self-proclaimed specialists should be thrown out as well. They are the one type of specialist America can do without.
Leg Hussein Paine @ 67:
Can I hear a codswallop?
cokey roberts prospers directly from war profits.
she is from the rich reichwingneocons.
she is a fucking insensitive BITCH.
Please define winning! We overthrew Saddam, there were no WMD, Dubya declared victory...and we stayed there for five years to disrupt the Iraqi lives and country...please for the sake of God define the mission we are trying to win, you dumb f*ckers.
This is a text book example of what Glenn Greenwald talks about all the time.
Roberts is living in a cocoon of her own devising.
The press believes that the American people want what they(in their insular,elitist world)have constructed,and have come to fervently believe,regardless of the polls and basic facts on the ground.Its really rather shocking.
I used to like Cokie Roberts.
THIS IS NOT A WAR. IT IS AN OCCUPATION.
What is that tired old republiCON skank still doing on the airwaves?
Shouldn't she be on some independent cable baking cookies?
ysbaddaden @ 10:
You really have to work to finish those McDonald's spoons. Those are not for the rookies.
Cokies mom and dad were damn good representatives in the US Congress from New Orleans. Both had actually lived in the real world and understood people as good the good Roosevelt Democrats they were. Unfortunately Cokie has never lived in the real world...she has only lived in the insular world of Washington and has no clue if "most americans want to win" ....how would she know? She doesn't know any americans. She only knows, eats with, lives with, ...the political class of Washington. I am sure Hale and Lindy Boggs are turning in the grave about right now. Wouldn't get to upset about Cokie....she is like a lot of Washington today will become VERY irrelevant in Jan 09 when the "Jacksonian" of the 21st century arrive and govern at the behest of ...those Americans Cokie Roberts knows nothing about.
Cokie Roberts is a moron. If they're going to keep giving us these newsbots to barf out corporate spin, can't they at least make them hot?
At one point Cokie said something to the nature of that people should listen to them to get the real story behind things concerning politics...WTF!!
Cookie, please describe or at least define what winning the war means? Hell yes, the average American wants to "win" the quagmire. Just try and get them to state what that means and how many more people will have to die to get there. If there is a there, there.
Cokie is a big f@cking Wh@re! Oopsie, is that going to get me bounced from Air America?
She's another insane Christian terrorist who needs to be executed for his part in this regime's treason against us.
What are we going to win if we stay in Iraq? Unless we start scalping the women and children, what is to be won, the Bush stupid trophy?
No Cokie, the terms "winning" and "victory" are becoming more and more synonymous with saving face and that is all that can be salvaged at this point.
Joe O. @ 91:
But in her case the rescue mission for saving her face has become a salvage operation.
larry @ 85:
During the Lewinsky scandal, on this same show, I saw Sam Donaldson relate how he'd been on vacation at a fancy resort in New Mexico and how the "ordinary Americans" he met there were outraged at Clinton's behavior. He wasn't speaking of his fellow elite vacationers. He was referring to the staff. The SERVANTS.
Cokie is the perfect example of the stupid Reslug whore.
"Americans are more concerned with winning (a concept still vaguely and defiantly undefined five years into the occupation) than leaving Iraq."
I have not heard ONE definition of "winning" from anyone, other then something that challenges my patriotism; as soon as I do, I, too, might support winning over withdrawl. Time for someone to step to the plate and define "winning."
is there a way to actually email this boob and mock her in the same way? somebody please post her email.
This same show, Dan Senor went on to talk about what a great V.P. candidate Condi Rice would be, and Cokie and George and George all jumped on that bandwagon. Katrina tried to interject that she was maybe the worst National Security Adviser ever, but she was shouted down by the inside-the-beltway dumbshits. In these people's eyes, Condi is highly competent and beloved. In reality she is beloved only by George Bush and that's due to the fact that shes so highly competent at kissing his ass.
Cokie defends Chaney- she should wipe the teabag trails off her forehead first.
I stopped watching those Sunday morning talking heads awhile ago because I just couldn't take the lies and drivel anymore.
Seeing Katrina on George's show a couple of times wasn't enough to keep me viewing even though each time she was on it was like someone opened the window and let all the bad stale air out and something refreshing came in. The contrast is striking between how she thinks and what she has to say and what the normal "pundits(?)" say.
It's like watching Howard Zinn on PBS's Nightly News - the one time.
These people are so much needed to truly balance the conversation, but sadly they seem so obviously out of place.
The really dangerous thing about all of this is that I fear most people view the shills we normally see on TV (I think most people get whatever news they get from TV) as thoughtful balanced commentators and believe that what they are saying represents the truth.
I don't know why Cokie and Martha Raditz (sp?) don't know the obvious answer to Cheney's comment that public opinion doesn't matter on this war. The answer is that history is replete with great military powers losing wars because their public wasn't behind them. Our own revolution was a good example. More recently, Vietnam was lost because of flagging public will, and yet more recently, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan met with defeat because its population -- in a non-democracy, no less -- didn't have its heart in the cause. So the answer to other-priorities-Dick and Cokie both is that it's critical to have your public behind a war your nation is fighting, and that only someone ignorant of history would think otherwise. Why can't anyone say that? I'll let Martha slide for not thinking of it on the spot when Dick said, "so?" But can't anyone make that point now?
seth @ 6:
Priceless! The first 50 comments had me rolling. Cokie better catch up with her "Al qaeda in America" buddies Joe Leiberman and Lindsey Graham because we are winning! And don't you forget it. Astronaut pajamas, LOL.
Cokie, I don't want you speaking for me or the rest of the people in this country that oppose this war. Cokie Roberts has always been a corporate bitch. Any suggestion that Cokie has progressive views is a flat out lie. This was an obvious errand job given by ABC to Cokie Roberts to do a smear job on any public official that opposes the war. You see how she said "any major candidate". Too bad they forgot about Ralph Nader. Cokie's games are getting tired and old. Just another Jezebel.
angelina @ 5:
They know full well the audience they are trying to appeal to.
Give her a break. Her name's "Cokie" for chrissake. That had to have lead to a permanent inferiority complex -- exacerbated by the fact that she knows damn well the woman sitting next to her is about a thousand times smarter than she is.
What's wrong with this picture?
How in the HELL is Cokie STILL in ANY WAY relevant?
Why does ANYONE give a crap what this washed-up, has-been-of-a-journalist has to say? She abdicated her credibility long ago.
*
Oh. Right. The same Cokie Roberts, the same insightful visionary who sneered that the internet was a conspiracy theorist's joke, and asked derisively why take internet comments seriously. That Cokie Roberts? She's a flake.
Cokie sure looks bloated in the twilight years of her wretched life, Mother Nature's not treating her very well!
What kind of name is Cokie?
How can ANYBODY win at anything when they keep changing the rules of winning? First, get weapons of mass destruction, there were none... WE WIN! Second, get Saddam out-he's out...WE WIN! Next, have Iraqi elections...they did...WE WIN! Why don't they just admit that it won't be over until the oil fields are divvied up to big oil companies. Then, we'll have to keep thousands of soldiers there to protect big oil company profits.
What would make us winners is if we:
1. acknowledged our huge mistake and apologized to the world for our arrogance and incompetence
2. hold the Bush criminals accountable for all their wrong doing
3. implement a more responsible foreign policy
If someone says "So" when ask about the wishes of most Americans to end this war, can the phrase be interpreted in any other way than not caring about what most Americans wishes are?
Could Dick Cheney meant to say "Sew" as in bonding the people with stitches?
or did he say "Sow" as reap the winning for the people? Maybe he said "Sol" as the sun and we should have a sunny face on the war? It's so hard to tell that he had so many heart surgery that he lacks a real heart and no soul, that it would be easy to take his response as "So" as having any emotion to go with it. But I am going to go with the interpretation of not caring about what most Americans wishes are?
I don't think that a response like "so" is any better than saying "I don't care"
Cokie! it's the same damn thing!
she's Dick Cheney in drag -- out of touch, old, wealthy, white - i think we all keep expecting these folks to change but it will never happen.
If your mother named you Cokie, you might have issues, too.
These people that have some money. think they are gods, and know-better-than-we-do. They make me sick. I've met lots of them over the years. Windbags!! Money does not "buy" intelligence. I can just see Cokie's cocktail circuit. Lots of assholes, lots of opinions.
So according to "Cokie" if a bully stomps the shit out of her kids it just has to be right because he won, right Cokie?
What would possess anyone to watch television?
Cokie, you ignorant slut! I like NPR as it's one of the few sources for in depth coverage of the news and politics, but her presence makes it difficult to support them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. How can you take anyone named "Cokie" seriously? Maybe they could round out the panel with Biff and Gidget to really nail what's wrong in Iraq.
sheesh... Cokie needs a name change pronto (may I suggest Crackie, cuz she sure seems to be smoking some)
Cheerleader for "the Win"?
Cokie Syndrome: The inability to ever deviate from the conventional wisdom.
Ya think? Maybe?
And if that's so, then do you think the mainstream media plays the left as much as it plays the right? Like maybe people are there to give the illusion of choice, the illusion of debate when really the media are just guiding public opinion toward false choices, like the ridiculous choices for president before the American people today? Ya think maybe?
Unfortunately, sites like Crooks and Liars act often as apologists for the democratic party whose congressional and senate members, for one thing, are profitting handsomely from the war spending going on in this country. Crooks and Liars also feed the public the falsehoods, deliberately or otherwise that America is a democracy. There is no democracy in America, hasn't been in 100 years. But if you can sell that myth, it sure makes the people all that much easier to control.
I see very little discussion on C&Ls of the NAU under the SPP on this site but lots about how illegal immigrants should be given a free pass. I see very little palpable outrage about how Bush and Cheney are still in office or that the democrats betrayed their own base repeatedly. Instead of recognizing that the whole system is corrupt and all players are bought and sold, this site continually reinforces the myth that the Democratic party will change things for the better once they get into power. It's called denial politely, insanity really.
Instead of recognizing that the whole system is so horrendously corrupt that all players are working against the interests of the American people with the exception of men like Dennis Kusinich -- now fighting to retain his congressional seat -- and Ron Paul, C&Ls keeps the attention focussed on the Repugs and blames them for all of America's woes. Which keeps the whole gravy train in place.
We are collectively heading into another war in the middle east, an economic collapse of unthinkable proportions -- both are when events, not if it seems -- and yet this site continually gives the powers that be a free pass. If public opinion woke up and insisted on change the whole scam could be ended in 10 minutes, but we have been conditioned to be so dumbed down and selfish that the powers that be can continue operating without a sliver of resistance. People feel they won't lift a finger unless they get hit. Well, we'll be hit, alright, and sooner than many may think. At some point people will wake up to how much they have been played, but it might be after a city has been locked down or they are being herded into a camp. (There are 800 empty prison camps in the US today including one in Alaska that can hold 500,000 people.) Of course, at that point it will be too late to do much of anything to fight back.
On the plus side, though, at least people will at that point not be watching television. Or reading Crooks and Liars for another.
CAT FIGHT!!!!
it sounds to me like she's defending Cheney saying "so". That's peculiar. Why on earth would any one defend that?
Somebody pour Cokie another martini.
I've taken to shutting off "Mourning Addition" on NPR when it comes on Mondays. Her "analysis" is nothing but repetition of the party line--both Republican and basic DLC. I know she was there before the new hosts, but at least Bob Edwards asked her tougher questions and challenged her "conventional wisdom."
The characterization two weeks ago of NPR as "National Pentagon Radio" is most apt. Cokie Roberts and her 3-martini crowd fit in nicely.
David @ 121:
[emphasis added]
So you missed it when C&L came out hard against Joe Leberman in his '06 primary against Ned Lamont? When C&L called out Diane Feinstein and other Dems for their support of telecom immunity in the FISA Bill? Have you missed all of the C&L support of truly progressive Dems aginst less progressive Dems in primaries over the years? I'd suggest you go through the archives before you bring that weak stuff again.
--------------------
This site has always given Kucinich a fair shake. Maybe the commenters haven't, but the site has always presented Kucinich in rosy hues.
As for Paul- when it comes to his stance on the war, the site has always been friendly with him. But, in the eyes of progressives who know his other positions, Paul is a one trick pony. He's a regressive, a throwback to the '50's- the 1850's! If you haven't seen HR 300, a piece of legislation that Paul has introduced again and again, you should take the time to read about it. The man is openly hostile to the 14th Amendment and the incorporation of the Bill of Rights to the individual States that the 14th Amendment provides.
I meant LIeberman, of course.
Exactly WHICH Americans does Cokie think she's speaking for? She's another Peggy Noonan under the guise of a middle of the road commentator. I will say this for Stephanopolous, he at least gives a true liberal like Vanden Heuvel every once in awhile a forum to take on these rightwing dipshits.
However, he still doesn't have a liberal on every week while Will as the con has a permanent seat on the show.
A long long time ago Cokie Roberts had a little integrity. But she has spread her legs for the republican mafia over the last decade or so. I stopped listening to her. If she isn't getting a salary from the republican party I would be very surprised.
125 Andy K Jong Il Says:
David @ 121:
[emphasis added]
——————–
Wow, two articles, including one concerning Joe (I can't believe he's a Democrat) Leberman's re-election. And you sure showed him, didn't you! Oh ya, I forgot, he got re-elected. Oh well, when he's McCain's Vice President he won't be as embarassing to the Democratic Party.
And those progressive Dems sure moved the country in a whole new direction, didn't they!? Ya, you all sure reshaped the debate, didn't you? I think the Dum Congress elected in 2006 to stop the war dug in their heels for 5 whole minutes before they gave Bush all the funding for his wars and advancing of the police state that he ever wanted and then some. But you sure still love them don't you?
Yup, you sure got me there! Crooks and Liars is tremendously effective at highlighting how
Dems have been investing heavily in the defence contract industry, no forget that one,that they have fearlessly taken on the president in impeachment proceedingswhoops, lets drop that one too, how aboutthey have cut off the president's war fundingno, that doesn't work either does it? How aboutthey have rolled back the Patriot Act, nah, they want those powers in case they are in power.Ya, the C&R site has really taken the Dems to task, haven't they? And people like you are really making a difference in America today. Don't talk to me about lame and weak stuff.
You keep thinking that by appealing to these people who represent themselves as Democrats and who pretend to represent you that they will create change in America, when the reality is they are as bought, sold and corrupted as the Repugs are and that both parties are working against the interests of the American people. Period.
I repeat: Sites like Crooks and Liars act often as apologists for the democratic party whose congressional and senate members, for one thing, are profitting handsomely from the war spending going on in this country.
Emphasis added.
Mrs. Roberts is one of the reasons I've more-or-less stopped listening to the national feed of NPR. She's been the vanguard of efforts to make that network more "mainstream" (read: faux-conservative), but pandering to the opposite of whatever concerns the democratic grassroots holds at any moment.
I don't mind dealing with thoughtful conservatives, but am quite tired of those (like Mrs. Roberts) who are contrarian only because they feel uncomfortable with the grassroots.
She's a brilliant, accomplished person, who's nonetheless another out-of-touch beltway elitest.
Really, I was always under the impression that Dr Paul very much supports state rights and is in favor of a smaller government at the federal level, but what do I know, right?
Fact of the matter is the two men mentioned are the only two that I know of telling it like it is, while the rest of the Democrat thugs are making excuses day after day after day for their inaction.
As you are now excusing C&Ls.
Case and point.
You guys don't understand. Cokie Roberts is the daughter of Hale Boggs, a former (establishment) Congressman from Louisiana. She married Steve Roberts, an establishment media guy and a firm supporter of Israel. She's a neo-con, because she doesn't know any better. Cokie isn't too bright, so cut her a little slack. But not much.
David @ 131:
As for Paul- feh. You're wrong. Plain and simple. But I'm sure that you're in support of the SCOTUS decision in Barron v. Baltimore, right. Do you think that the SCOTUS was wrong in overturning Plessy v. Ferguson by citing the 14th Amendment in Brown v. Board of Education? After all, the majority of Topekans supported that "separate but equal" bullshit. David, the tyranny of the majority is a bad thing whether the majority is of a village or a nation.
As for the other, you made a baseless argument, I pointed out where you were wrong. You want to prosecute this site for blind partisanship, the burden of proof is on you.
You proved nothing.
Oh, yeah, David, one more thing: It's case in point.
cokie is just another lying republican fool!
living in a bubble just fucks up your brain, right cokie?
From the responsibleplan link Nicole provided: "More than a year ago, the American public demanded a new direction in Iraq by electing a new Congress, and the bipartisan Iraq Study Group (the Baker-Hamilton Commission) presented a set of recommendations for just such a new direction. President Bush rejected the majority of those recommendations and proceeded - largely unchecked by Congress - on a course explicitly contrary to them."
Um, did anybody who wrote that see page 73 of the Baker-Hamilton report? It says RIGHT THERE that they would support a (short-term) "surge" of American troops to stabilize Baghdad and speed up Iraqi forces training!!
Look, Bush might have gone beyond the "short term" recommendation, but anybody who is still frustrated with this war can blame B-H. THEY invented the notion of the surge.
Also, B-H rejected "immediate withdrawal" of our troops from Iraq, and 70% of Americans favor "gradual withdrawal." And I agree with that and thereby disagree with this "new" plan that C&L and Katrina of the The Nation is talking about. Obama's plan of 16 months to withdraw is the best way to go, because it takes into account unforeseen developments on the ground. I'm not thrilled about it, but remember, there are NO good solutions for Iraq, and his is the best and most RESPONSIBLE of them.
So Cokie Roberts may be a jerk, but she is mostly right here. Again, most Americans don't want "immediate" withdrawal, because they know there will be a HUGE security vacuum, chaos could spread in security-less areas, and more bloody power struggles between the sects would continue. Even Michael Ware of CNN rejects fast withdrawal, and I respect his opinion because he is IN Iraq, putting his life in danger to tell us what's going on there.
Cokie is on Cocaine
Cokie sucks. She always has. I don't know why NPR employs people like her or Mara Liasson. I'm glad to see Katrina on the air, though. She'd progressive and makes it known. Cokie never met a right-winger that she didn't like.
America still thinks the war is a Superbowel match. Well played, folks. Well played.
Andy K Jong Il @ 134:
God you're good! You really told me!
So lets look at the Crooks and Liars story line up right now.
A) McCain/Rice Ticket -- Shudder
B) Vitter Crash -- File under Republican Hypocracy
C) Senator Kerry dismantles the McCain Myth -- (BTW, can you tell me why he gave up so quickly in 2004 when there was a very high probability he would have won if he had contested the election. I know someone who asked him, but he got tazered, so I never heard the answer.)
D) John McCain's Iraq Speech interupted
E) Seigelman Challenges Rove
F) McCain Media Myth #5
H) Don Feith Earns Nicname
J) McCain's Temper
L) Cokie Roberts defends Neocon thinking
M) McCain's bio tour and Karl Rove
N) GOP Wishes Internet Never Invented
O) More Violence in Iraq -- Looked for C&L criticism of Dems for supporting war funding, didn't see anything
P) Mark Penn out sort of ..... Ya, they really ripped into Hillary here
Q) Lindsay Graham -- McCain's mouthpiece
You know, you are right! No Democrat slant in these stories!
And again you miss the whole thread of this discussion. There is this prevailing theme in these stories, as one example, that the whole problem with America today is because of the Republicans. Those dirty, lying Republicans.
But like I say the Democrats are as corrupt and bought and compromised as the Republicans and are not taken to task by this site. I've listed a number of stories not discussed here, like how Dem politicians, like above mentioned Kerry, are profitting handsomely from defense industry investments financed by taxpayer dollars and how they seem as supportive of the war as Bushie himself. There are dozens of other stories worth exploring that would hold both parties to task, but that seems against the editorial policy of the site.
And I'll say again, until people stop blindly supporting political parties like they support Idol contestants or football teams and start really learning how this country operates, no change is possible. And until this site begins to more critically assess Democrat actions, it is a shill soapbox. Period.
And with a major depression coming soon accompanied by a credit-card nuclear war on Iran, possibly following another terrorist attack, if people don't start seriously examining these questions soon, this country is in for a world of hurt.
But you got me there. Case in point. Good for you.
STORM @ 142:
could we get this out of the gutter please?
Cokie's starting to remind me of The Church Lady.
David @ 141:
Where to start? "Democrat slant"? Nah, too obvious(and a dead giveaway of where your unimaginitive ass is coming from).
How about here:
David @ 121
Unfortunately, sites like Crooks and Liars act often as apologists for the democratic party whose congressional and senate members, for one thing, are profitting handsomely from the war spending going on in this country.
So "often" is today? Because William Jefferson isn't in the news today. Obama/Wright is played out, but was covered. HRC maneuvering for MI/FL delegates will almost assuredly pop up again shortly. I gave you other examples of C&L taking Dems to task but you ignored it.
Go find the first C&L article on the Spitzer scandal. READ IT. He was chastised. And when he resigned, C&L agreed that it was the right thing to do. Not the hypocritical response of Republicans who have made their bones on moralizing on sexual issues but fight tooth and nail to hold their seats when called for their transgressions against their own positions.
Take some time to actually search the archives. Then go to LGF, CQ or RedState and tell me that they're even one tenth as good at calling bullshit on their own. Go to your Ron Paul sites and see if they call bullshit on HR 300. Or don't you care that Paul supports the right of the majority to establish religion and the right to persecute on the basis of sexuality when NO government can prove a compelling interest to do so? Don't you care that you're just having sunshine pumped up your ass when Paul makes his claims as a Constitutionalist?
And it was very telling that you chose to reply to my little game of "got your nose" rather than reply to the post just previous, where I excoriated your "argument" in support of your Saint of Surfside's assault on the Constitution. I guess you would have had to answer those arguments, huh? Brilliant dodge. Brilliant. I nearly missed it.
Cokie is a twit who loves the sound of her own voice. Has for years and years.
kasinca @ 80:
You've hit the nail on the head. "Winning" seems to change definition as often as the reasons we invaded Iraq in the first place. They are selling us a bill of goods and we are tolerating it.
Why does this old Republican hag always look like her eyes are popping out of her head?
Her and George Will , why are these two drips still on the air ? Amazing .
diamondmc @ 20:
AMEN! With time-shifting, I used to watch all four of the broadcast talking heads shows. What a load! Now I watch none of em. Thank heaven for the net. I used to try to read between the lines and learn something in spite of the intended message. Waste of time.
In my view, staying in Iraq is losing, while leaving Iraq ASAP is winning...which is exactly the opposite of what warmongering, war-profiteering Republicans subscribe to...even as a war that was promised to end in months has dragged on for over five years, with no end in sight...and even as warmongering, war-profiteering Republicans flush the futures of their own children and grand-children down the toilet...while apparently being okay with over 4,000 (to date) of our soldiers having died in the middle of a sectarian civil war.
So, Democrats and other America loving U.S. citizens need to frame this debate correctly: Stay in Iraq, We Lose...Leave Iraq, We Win.
Login or Register to post comments.