Countdown: Biden Demolishes McCain's Rationales For Staying In Iraq
By Logan Murphy Tuesday Apr 15, 2008 11:00am
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Senator Joe Biden joined Keith Olbermann on Tuesday's Countdown to talk about his foreign policy speech today, in which he knocks away John McCain's ever-changing rationales for staying in Iraq and his embrace of the failed Iraq policies of George Bush. Biden notes the ongoing Democratic primary battle between Obama and Clinton, but makes it very clear that Democrats are more than willing to engage him on in a debate about Iraq and national security.
Biden, Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, tells Keith that regardless of how Senator McCain meant his 100 years in Iraq statement, the American people are against it and it sends the wrong message to the people of the Middle East. Americans don't want permanent bases in Iraq and as Biden puts it, it feeds into the theory that we're only there to control their oil:
"...The larger point was, when we say to the Arab world that would stay in Iraq for 100 years even in peaceful circumstances, it feeds the assumption that we're there to control their oil and to have a permanent military base. That's what I meant when I say it feeds the conspiracy theory, the urban legend in the Arab street, that the only reason we were in Iraq in the first place and staying in Iraq is because we want to control their oil and have a permanent base in the region."
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Urban legend?
err, do you not remember Rumsfeldts comment a few years back?
Yep, and there would be no better recruiting tool than the president of the US (if McCain were to be elected - shudder) saying on film more than once that he doesn't care if we'll be there for 100, 1000, 10000 years. As a mere GOP candidate it's not all that powerful as propaganda, but later on it would be gold.
Biden was good yesterday.
OT: If you haven't seen the latest Jed Report video on Clinton, you need to see.
No narrative, just her words, and being held to account for them. A must see.
I've never been on an "Arab street" but I have heard the "urban legend". That "urban legend" is not native to just Arab countries.
Pssssssst, hey Joe. That IS why we are there. Got it now? Wake up and smell the roses Joe. Sheeshe.
What other word but "Colony" could possibly describe a foreign power occupying another country under peaceful circumstances for 100 years? This is not about Arab rumor-mongering, it is about Arab common sense.
PeterB @ 3:
Wow, she hung herself. Suicide by video.
Norse @ 1:
Seriously, this is not an urban legend. This is by and large the sole reason we are in Iraq. The urban legend is that we invaded Iraq to bring Democracy and Freedom to these people.
Ok, so we do what two Dem candidates, desperate to be liked and say the rigt things, want and we pull out? What is the rosy prediction for life after Iraq. Th families of 300,000 dead and tortured Iarqis just find productive use for their anger and leave the U.S. alone?
Morally, exiting Iraq is the right decision. But realistically, it's fucking stupid.
"Biden Demolishes McCain’s Rationales For Staying In Iraq"
{Yawn}...Ducks in a barrel.
Wait a minute ... I thought oil _was_ the only reason we're there.
your mama @ 9:
It's called DIPLOMACY. You announce a military withdrawal. You announce that the U.S. will provide MONEY...not contractors with non-compete contracts...you will provide MONEY for reconstruction. You approach the U.N. and request that a peace keeping force be installed. You announce that you will provide MONEY, and only want an EQUAL say in how it is spent, how contracts (if any) are awarded.
You get the FUCK out of the way with the heavy handed bullshit propagated by this moronic Administration. You BUILD friendships, try and regain lost good will. You show yourself to be a world NEIGHBOR and not the backyard bully.
your mama @ 9:
Well, then I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and sign up for service.
While there we are acting as an irritant and also de-focusing from protecting ourselves here. The antidote for the anger of the families of the 300,000 you speak of isn't to enlarge the size of that number. I do agree that it is a horrible mess. However, it appears that the majority of Iraqi's want to sort this mess out on their own.
centralilgirl @ 5:
Could you please elaborate on your comment?
And I know the response to my posts.
The monies I am talking about will pale in contrast to the monies sunk into this mindless military boondoggle. We will request matching INTERNATIONAL monies, and in return for those monies...the monies will be put under the control of the U.N. Yeah...I know...the U.N. is evil...the right wing response to everything. Everyone is evil except the U.S. that is committing the evil. We will turn over Iraq to its people. We will NOT install a puppet government, as we have. Our puppets are not FUCKED, and they can remember who they trusted (GW Bush) when they find themselves being dragged through the streets tied to the back end of a Chevy pickup.
L & P, I'm proud of you! So sensible! Thanks for your intelligent contribution to the dialogue.
--Judy Hussein Lou
sorry...our puppets are FUCKED.
And good riddance. Chalabi should be hanging from the end of a noose.
Liberal AND Proud @ 17:
As should most of [b]ush's group (Rumsfeld, Rove, Gonzo, Cheney etc.)
I think it's funny that the fear of "the black guy" or "the woman" would make any sensible fair minded American to even consider this old, broken down, angry, Denny's loiterer for the POTUS. If Warloving McFraud wasn't suffering from dementia he would have had the common sense to run as far away from Bush as possible. Instead this forgetful old man EMBRACES the Bush crime family.
...the conspiracy theory, the urban legend in the Arab street, that the only reason we were in Iraq in the first place and staying in Iraq is because we want to control their oil...
It's the urban legend on my street too.
your mama @ 9:
And staying is Stupid.
Stupid is leaving us with Stupid Choices.
If you're hammering your thumb with a hammer, and it hurts, stop hammering. Your thumb will still hurt, but at least you're not making it any worse by stopping.
Weaseldog @ 21:
Smart.
Biden would make a good Vice President.
I don't trust Biden, being CFR and all. We are there for the oil, we all know that.
And you want to build REAL good will in the Middle East, and gain good will with the PEOPLE.
You appeal to the people caught in the middle. The working class families who don't give a shit about the political fight between the Shia, Shiites, Baathists or Wahabists. The families that simply want to raise their families, let their children go to school safely and put food on the table.
You use U.S. influence to get the Saudis, the Jordanians, the Emirates...yes...even the Iranians...and even more so...the Israelis to sign onto this and put THEIR money in.
Be a positive influence, which is what the U.S. has ALWAYS been...YES...I'm not a fool...I know our history in foreign interactions...but the fact is we have always stepped to the plate and LED where starvation, oppression and most of all CHILDREN are involved.
YourMom @ 20:
The original name given to our "plan" for Irak was Operation Iraqi Liberation.
PeterB @ 3:
Man...that's Clinton bashing.....from her own mouth. WHAT A LIAR!
I'll be impressed when Biden starts slamming his fist, raising his voice, and DEMANDING Bush Co comply with the demands of the people and of congress. Not the opposite.
Enough of this BULLSHIT already. Enough of the neocons and that decrepid old FUCK Dick Cheney and his empirialist view of the world.
So, does anyone doubt Bush Co has achieved absolute uncontested power?
Or at least as much as is possible while still maintaining the illusion of a Democracy and Freedom?
At this point there is no objective- we are fighting and killing just for the sake of fighting and killing...
The reasons initially given to justify the invasion were fabricated- then one by one, discredited. Chicken hawks fear if we pull out, we 'lose' (as if this war is a game).
How do we WIN when there is no clearly defined objective?
I keep hearing wingnuts assert we should stay until 'we kill all the terrorists'- But the fact is any Iraqi who defends their home from the invading US forces are deemed terrorists. They have EVERY right to fight back, and should fight back.
I think what is fueling the desire to stay in Iraq is simply religious bigotry from the Christian right- they want to crush Islam.
We lost this war the moment we went in, as the objectives for the war were based on lies.
AP - 53 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - All five Roman Catholic justices on the Supreme Court were invited to Wednesday night's splashy White House dinner in honor of Pope Benedict XVI.
Party Theme for the Evening. Ultimate Theocracy. Wear your pope stuff.
seth @ 13:
the Iraqi's will be just fine when we leave. They are not a bunch of baboons who cannot do anything without our help. Remember, they built all those Hospitals, schools, bridges and orphanages waaaaaayy before we bombed the shit out of them all. They can do it again and they, again, wont need our help achieving it.
We need to stop thinking that we're the only people on Earth who know how to get things done. Humble up, a lot was accomplished in this world well before the Declaration of Independence was signed.
Oil. And a spoiled little rich boy who wanted to show he had bigger cajones than Daddy!
L.A. Confidential @ 32:
I heard it's a costume party. The theme is the Spanish Inquisition.
L.A. Confidential @ 32:
The Opus Dei'ers will get VIP seating.
McCain's rationale for staying the 100 years? Well - we're doing it everywhere, look at Germany and Korea and Japan etc etc. I have a real problem with this never-ending imperialism. WHY are we still in Germany and Korea and Japan etc?! WHY do these countries allow this?! How many German military bases are located in the US? How many Korean? Just because something has been going on for years and years doesn't make it right.
Chico Hussein @ 33:
Chico Hussein @ 33:
The oldest civilization in the world has done it before, they can do it again, better than what Halliburton has done.
Loony @ 37:
The neocons want to preserve the 'soverignty of the united States'- i.e have the US dominate, if not rule the world
StirFry @ 35:
The menu will be real beef (grass-range fed) fillet mignon. Not the corn fed 65%fat/25% meat stuff their subjects consume.
Ron @ 39:
Bear in mind to the Christian wingnuts, the Iraqis are savages, becuase most of them don't worship Jesus.
Does anybody with any sense listen to any of the Democrats anymore. They all stink. All they want to do is get elected. The good old boys in congress think the Democrat Party is going to give the nomination to obama, like they had it planned, so as not to tap a woman for the job. SO WHAT DO THEY DO THEY ALL START TO KISS OBAMA'S ASS BIG TIME. Got news for them. They are going to have a hard time getting re-elected. Kerry is hanging on the ropes in MA and when Kennedy comes up for re-election he better retire. As should a lot of the good old boys in congress.
Loony @ 37:
Why do we have some 120 permanent bases worldwide?
"That’s what I meant when I say it feeds the conspiracy theory, the urban legend in the Arab street, that the only reason we were in Iraq in the first place and staying in Iraq is because we want to control their oil and have a permanent base in the region.”
--sen biden
umm... urban legend? why does biden think we went in there?
clue phone is ringing joe...
Loony @ 37:
Useless overseas bases help justify the careers and lifetime pensions of dozens of military brass, as well as billions in defense contracts. As long as the MIC has its grip firmly around America's throat, those bases are going nowhere. And McSame thinks we need MORE !
Marge @ 43:
Nope. I feel insulted they totally caved about 4 weeks after the Dems took back the majority and went back to "business as usual".
A HUGE disappointment.
Ron @ 39:
and, cheaper.
Dr. Acula @ 44:
more like 800+
and our military empire is hungry for more.
Even if they stabilize Iraq and take all the oil, it will STILL run out at some point. What next? Invade Saudi Arabia? Nigeria?
I just hope that the next administration/congress will genuinely embrace renewable energy and sustainability, and not just the corporate giveaways that they are using as excuses for action now.
Marge @ 43:
Do you have a brother named Chris, or Abob?
Dr. Acula @ 44:
737 actually.
http://www.alternet.org/story/47998
Norse (comment #1) beat me to the punch. Biden sounds like a wise old man whose sound counsel is punctuated by the remark, "As I remarked to Napolean before the battle of Austerlitz..".
Chico Hussein @ 33:
If there were an option available that could "work", logically, by the US staying it would make sense to do so. By "work" I mean to do what is in Iraqi's best interest (which just means listening to what policies they want enacted, not having an ideologically rigid set of policies that the war profiteers refuse to depart from, and then helping them enact them as best we can, before leaving as soon as they want us to). The only one I can think of is that they're going to reverse the destructive and illogical economic policies they've forced on Iraq and stop supporting the privatization of oil, use the revenues to fund Iraq's development, put THAT and not the military in the forefront and even THAT might cause more bloodshed. I get tired of people who supported the war saying that the responsibility for what happens after the pullout will be on those calling for the troops to come home. What garbage. There is no winnable solution thanks to the situation we're now in, none, and this is thanks to the policies that these war profiteers have forced on Iraq. To create this mess and then to blame others for the aftereffects is amazingly stupid and immoral. There is no good solution now as far as the US is concerned and the chances that Iraq will recover from us killing up to a million of their people, dropping tons of depleted uranium, destroying any small business that survived the attack, handing over the entire economy to multi nationals connected to the invading army, creating one of the worse internal refugee situations in the world, forcing policies on Iraq that has devastated their economy and our attempts to this day to privatize their oil (the only resource that could possibly fund any needed economic development and reconstruction) is not likely in the near future. This situation was created by the war supporters, they're in no position to lecture others on the repercussions of a US pullout, if they were so concerned about that they would have created policies that benefited Iraqis in the first place and not created this horror. They were more concerned about profiting off of the war to concern themselves with what was good for Iraqis. May every single war profiteer, propagandist and every colluding politician who created this mess rot in hell for what they’ve done.
Marge @ 43:
You lose all credibility Marge when you call the democratic party, the democrat party.
Did anybody happen to catch McShame on Hardball last night? What a glorious, though slightly uncomfortable to watch, train wreck that was.
McW was talking himself in rambling, incoherent circles. He was, of course, trying to beat the war drums, but is was a rather(fortunately) sorry attempt.
At one point I think he thought he was being hit on by a male member of the audience, he got clearly uncomfortable and proceeded to tell us all about how much of a sports fan he is; a very wtf kind of moment.
To Matthews' credit he was asking decent questions, but if you watched him you could almost tell he was thinking the same thing as everyone else listening Gramps- 'is this some kind of joke or is he fucking serious?' I think Tweety might have benefited from the ego and reality check he got on the The Colbert Report
The crowd was good too. They clapped politely at proper moments, but would also clearly murmur when the shit started getting too deep, and even booed McShame a couple of times. They also asked some solid questions too.
If this is the best the Rong can do, I can't fucking wait for the debates in the general. We might as well just speed up election day to just after the first one, because it will be well over for Ol'George-John at that point.
Marge @ 43:
Yeah Marge. Maybe at long last the Republicans will take over the three branches of government and rescue us from this horrific "Democrat Party".
Sorry Senator Biden, but it is not a mere myth on the Iraqi streets or an urban legend that we are in Iraq to control their oil and establish permanent bases, effectively colonizing. Read the PNAC writings. That was, and remains, the only reason we went in there.
[Deleted. Nonsensical flamebait-Sitemonitor]
God bless you Joe, but at least McCain's being honest - he fully admits he intends to keep our newly war-based economy chugging along by keeping us in Iraq indefinitely. Clinton and Obama just dance around it. Trust me, neither Hillary nor Barrack have any intention of bringing one troop home. In fact, not a single Democratic contender, barring Kucinich, would commit to doing so.
chris @ 59:
O c'mon! Let him say it, then we can rip him to shreds !
8)
The Washington Post FactChecker website has already debunked left wing propaganda regarding John McCain's supposed '100 year war' remark. Despite knowing the truth, dishonest elements of the so-called Progressive news media continue to promulgate the Big Lie.
http://tinyurl.com/6bjbsl
abob @ 62:
Correct. He didn't say we'd necessarily be at war in Iraq for another hundred years. Just that we'd need to occupy Iraq for another hundred years. Which is nearly as insane.
Chico Hussein @ 61:
What else does that idiot ever say? Rush must be on commercial brake, that's when the lemmings start repeating what they're told.
Biden for President.
L.A. Confidential @ 41:
65 + 25 = 90. I hate to ask, but what's the other 10%?
Left&Left @ 51:
LOL! Was gonna respond, but you hit the nail on the head.
I thought an 'urban legend' was something that wasn't true.
'The sun rises in the east', for instance, is not an urban legend. Nor is 'Iraq was about oil'.
"it feeds the conspiracy theory, the urban legend in the Arab street, that the only reason we were in Iraq in the first place and staying in Iraq is because we want to control their oil and have a permanent base in the region.”
Uh, those are the two reasons we invaded Iraq. Nothing else even remotely makes sense, even for people who live their lives in violent fantasylands, like Cheney, Bush, Rummy, and their braindead acolytes.
I don't know why the Democrats feel the need to talk like this -- like when they blame Iraqis for not taking responsibility for running their nation when doing so is clearly impossible so long as we are running it and when, we pretend not to be running it, making it impossible for anyone else to.
What Mr. Biden thinks we are supposed to think about why we invaded Iraq I would love to hear. It would sound something like George Bush trying to explain... well, anything.
"Correct. He didn’t say we’d necessarily be at war in Iraq for another hundred years. Just that we’d need to occupy Iraq for another hundred years. Which is nearly as insane." What he said was that it didn't matter if we were in Iraq for another 100, 1000, 10,000 years so long as it was only Iraqis being killed and not Americans. Clearly he was NOT thinking of a peaceful occupation, as his frantic apologists have been trying to say.
And if he thinks that Americans CAN have a peaceful occupation of an Arab nation that we violently invaded on obviously dishonest pretexts, then he is utterly delusional.
"Correct. He didn’t say we’d necessarily be at war in Iraq for another hundred years. Just that we’d need to occupy Iraq for another hundred years. Which is nearly as insane."
He has stated on more than one occasion that he thinks we should be in Iraq for (his numbers) 100, 1000, 10,000 and even 1,000,000 years - so long as Americans aren't dying. Apparently paying $12 billion a week with no ROI and the animosity of pretty much everyone else on the planet is fine with McCain - former Keating Five member who admits he has no economic understanding whatever.
This guy could give crazy old cranks a bad reputation.
I think he also said in the report on Keith that Al Qaeda will just fade away if we were to leave. I’ve been saying this for years. You may have seen it here. Biden has forgotten more that McCan’t has ever known about Iraq. Biden would make a very good Sec of State.
chris @ 59:
bunking off school today chris ?
Rusty Shackleford @ 63:
the war part was over may 03 Chimpy wearing his combat flight suit
and safe on a carrier off the coast of California 'mission accomplished' rah rah rah
then the occupation and the serious killings began, 4000 US service personal , 1000 contractors, and maybe half a million Iraqis.
Ozguy @ 68:
Iraq was also about dismembering a strong but vulnerable power in the ME.
ditto with Yugoslavia, which kicked off with that disgusting televised shooting down of that red crossed medivac helicopter for the worlds press.
so, why was it we are in Iraq? I forget.
Uuuh, consipiracy theory?
Obviously this man has not read the PNAC manifesto.
The facts are there.
Biden is a LIAR and Keith Olberman knows better also .." Urban Legend " .
They are pouring concrete for a Vatican size CITY , 114 ACRES , including airfields ; HOTELS ; OWN bus system ; 24/7 electricity ; water ; bowling alleys ; movies theaters and no doubt will be the CENTRAL COMMAND for U.S. intelligence services and satellite monitoring of EVERYTHING that moves or makes a sound in the Middle East .
The IRAQIS know this BIDEN and KEITH , who agreed that McCain's 100 years of contributes to an " Urban legend " , that doesn't exist . WAKE UP PEOPLE , this is utter nonsense and misinformation that the U.S. is not there for permanent bases and their oil , NONSENSE !
Do we have to go all over this again . The PNAC doctrine for more militarization of U.S. foreign policy and " lilly pads " to jump to other countries , based in iraq . They wrote about it with Dick Cheney in 96 .
Billions spent on huge mega bases , over 5 in Iraq . Biden
Bremmer changed all their business laws , selling off their banks for 100 % foreign ownership , to open up for U.S. war profiteering .
JP Morgan bank manages Iraq's foreign loans - more war profiteering . Blair was rewarded with 1 million a yr board of directors position for supporting the illegal invasion , BIDEN . IRAQIS KNOW THIS .
Bremmer along with the CPA lowered corp taxes to make it easier for U.S. & U.K. corps to buy up Iraqi industries , down to 15 % flat tax . A boondoggle for foreign investors ie U.S. oil companies etc etc . WATER & SEWER will probable taken over by Bechtel , as they tried in Bolivia , but were chased out .
While U.S. media is distracting us with the Pope and chicks beating the crap out of other chicks on youtube , U.S. has a massive effort by way of the U.S. " advisors " in Iraq's oil ministry , to open up Iraq's Government owned oil industries to a take over by Chevron ; B.P. and others . As Naomi Klein put it, the largest yard sell in history .
The Iraqis are losing control of their OIL reserves , BANKS ; Telecommunication Industry all started when the war profiteer BREMMER landed in Iraq .
Do you think Ahmed Chalabi was invited to the Bilderberg meeting in Canada for his expertise in camels or for his position in the oil ministry , the Bilderberg private meeting of the UBER elites in the world from Oil , Banking and politics ; Kissinger ; Wolfowitz ; JP Morgan ; Rothschild . They are CARVING UP IRAQ PEOPLE WAKE UP !
Alternet.org reported after the OIL take over is done , Iraq will have left about 10 % of their oil reserves , to directly control and the rest will be taken over by U.S. ; U.K. and even CHINA corporations . THEY ARE CARVING UP IRAQ ..and IRAQIS don't need silly comments from John McCain about 100 years , because THEY HAVE KNOW it FOR YEARS .
The U.S. phony news media never reported the hundreds of thousands of OIL WORKERS who protested their losing control of THEIR oil industries . They can figure it out BIDEN , its a FACT, not an URBAN LEGEND !
Biden knows goddamn well the mega bases in Iraq are not going anywhere , Baghdad Airport is under U.s. control . , most prisons under U.S. control ; check points outside of Fallujah set up by U.S. military issued ID cards and retina scans and probably many other cities and areas .
Biden is shamelessly positioning his favorite candidate to remove the foot off the neck of the Iraq's, to holding them hostage by gun point instead . Therefore removing a few thousand troops from Iraq , will be meaningless to IRAQIS , MEANINGLESS . There will be at least 50, 0000 military there for YEARS and YEARS . Hell they'll need at least 10, 000 for the fortified City called the Embassy .
Iraqis are not stupid they've know for YEARS the U.S. intends to remain in Iraq , just as the neocons have planned it , permanently ! !
It's amazing that someone with such diplomatic skills, is not diploma