The Sadr Ultimatum. 63% of Americans say mistake was made to invade Iraq
al-Sadr ups the pressure in Iraq:
Under pressure from Iraqi government troops and the American military, Moktada al-Sadr called on his followers to stop the bloodshed, unite with all Iraqis and focus their firepower on driving out the “occupation forces,” meaning the United States military and its foreign allies.
He instructed his followers to “to wage open war against the Americans” but forbade them from “raising a hand against another Iraqi citizen.” He also urged the Iraqi Army and Iraqi police to stop cooperating with the Americans, and he asked the government to purge the militias within the ranks of the police and the army. He said he would oppose any American military bases in Iraq.
He also issued a “final warning” to the Iraqi government to end its crackdown or face an “open war until liberation.”...read on
This is an explosive situation at this point no matter how the article tries to soften it up. And Kevin Drum finds this new piece of info:
Iraq's largest Sunni bloc has agreed to return to Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki's cabinet after a nine-month boycott, several Sunni leaders said on Thursday, citing a recently passed amnesty law and the Maliki government's crackdown on Shiite militias as reasons for the move.
He wonders if: "Is that good news on the stability front, or does it mean that full-scale war with Sadr and his troops is becoming ever more imminent? Or both? Stay tuned."
I can't say an all out war with the Sadrists is there tactical play at this time, but if it does happens---then like everything else that has transpired in Iraq---it will be a bloody mess.
And the American people are turning against the Iraq war more and more. BushCo once again fails to capitalize on all the usual propaganda the networks shower upon them. Including the calculated BushCo. media presentation of "The Petraeus&Crocker show.
A new USA Today/Gallup poll found that 63 percent of Americans say “the United States made a mistake in sending troops to Iraq, a new high mark by one percentage point.” Gallup notes that “majority opposition to the Iraq war is basically cemented.”
The one truth is that this military escapade keeps getting Sadr and Sadr...
one can only hope that the humor doesn't get worse...
but to the issue at hand: when does it become abundantly clear that the U.S. forces CANNOT be the arbiters of the cure as they are held as the affliction?
when does the U.N. decide to backfill the security vacuum when the U.S. forces are compelled to leave?
It's good to know that so many people agree with us dirty fucking hippies. Golly, it sure does feel good to be right... Yessiree... No, wait. What I'm feeling is the need to slap everyone who marginalized us in the run up to the war and is cheering on our side now. I sure hope their ability to fool themselves into thinking they were duped helps them sleep at night.
I need rum.
dhkeen @ 2:
It has been abundantly clear for years....and the UN wants no part of this. It's our mess to clean up thanks to Dumbya & Co., which is why he's forcing the troops to stay there until he's out of office. Chickenhawk coming in, Chickenshit going out.
The timing is perfect. Bush and Cheney want to move on and attack Iran.
Kezaro @ 3:
Ever notice how when you bring the subject of the war up to former supporters these days, they don't want to talk about it, or say something like, "We've done our job, now we should leave".
Sorry folks, like Colin Powell said, "You break it, you buy it."
If this gets really bad I wonder how many of those corrupt members of the Iraqi government will be welcomed here with open arms while those at the lower levels that helped american interests are left to fear for their lives and those of their families. All the aid that is missing because of mismanagement and outright theft will find it's way into expensive villas and property here thanks to this inept regime. This is so wrong so many levels it no longer is funny. In any other banana republic those that caused so much pain and spirally agony at home would have been taken behind the presidental palace and shot here in the good ole US of A they are treated with kidgloves unless of course they are democrats and then they are seen as unpatriotic because they do not wear a stinkin lapel pin. Oh I am bitter about how this nation is run I still go through the motions of voting unlike a majority of americans who no longer vote because they see the game as fixed- anyone out there have another reason why people do not vote??
36% of Americans (according to this poll) are in a deep deep state of denial.
Secretary Rice should take notice of what happens when you call your greatest threat a loser and a coward...
I can't believe it's only 63%.
It should've been 100% from before the beginning of it. How stupid can people in this country STILL be?
The only thing that matters (unless you accept the tacit assumption that the United States somehow owns the world) is what the Iraqi people want. And that is inescapably clear: immediate withdrawal. The U.S. is an occupying invader who perpetrated an illegal war of aggression, the supreme crime of the Nazis, per Nuremberg. OUT NOW! As far as reparations, which the Iraqis are clearly entitled to, I suggest we spend the $12 billion per month we're spending now, except we need to pay for it, not borrow it. A tax on war profiteers like Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, ExxonMobil, etc should pay for it. After all, the whole invasion was at least in part on their behalf (except of course companies like Blackwater who appear to have formed as a response to the invasion, but I may be wrong about that).
Sadr gets stronger everyday and one day, he will rule that country. Why? He's the closest thing to a patriot they have and he's backed by Iran.
His supporters are also the disenfranchised poor of Iraq. Thanks to us, there are more and more of them.
baylaw73 @ 11:
Blackwater existed before Iraq, but it's a moot point because this war made them the powerful company they are today.
miss_kitty @ 10:
Ma'am, I understand your frustration, but I do not think stupidity accounts for it, at least not all of it. I do not blame people who do not have the facts, and I suspect there are still great numbers who do not know the truth of the situation. Also, I suspect some are incapable of admitting this country makes mistakes, and that may be stupidity to you, but I call it intransigence, which is not the same thing.
Good post! But you wrote, "I can’t say an all out war with the Sadrists is there tactical play at this time," there should be their. I can't believe I'm actually looking at spelling and grammar. That must mean I'm becoming an elitist! ;-)
yakfitguy @ 6:
Usually, the former supporters of the war blame the Iraqis. Just ask Hillary Clinton about that one.
miss_kitty @ 10:
I wonder how many still believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11.
all hail the hypno toad @ 17:
Ever stop and think that Saddam was, ultimately, one of the victims of 911?
how can we drive out the other 36%?
I like Pie @ 18:
Agreed, but I was referencing those studies that showed that even in 2005 or whatever it was the number of people who still believed Saddam had something to do with 9/11 was over 50%. I'm just wondering where that number is now.
I like Pie @ 18:
I have.
The fact that I could ever feel even a mote of sympathy for a man like Saddam says volumes about this administration.
Tim @ 19:
No, but we might be able to trick them all into the back of a VW Beetle by throwing a flag pin in the back seat.
Americans by and large have their collective heads up their collective asses. When the shit hits the fan they'll likely look around bewildered and say "WOT HOPPENED!" then look for the remote.
baylaw73 @ 14:
OK, how about just plain laziness in not doing the required homework to find out the facts before committing to WAR and sacrificing thousands of lives?!
THAT, to me is willfull stupidity.
Bonkers Hussein @ 21:
I don't think it was the fact that the man was a dirtbag ruler. I think it had more to do with the fact that he was a dirtbag ruler that told Corporate Amerika to go blank... itself.
I think that goes a long way towards explaining why some of the cruelest leaders on earth can be supported by the US and labelled "Freedom Fighters"; yet, an equally cruel leader can be labelled a communist or a terrorist.
Our foreign policy is completely under the control of US Corporations and our intention is to foster business transactions. We will support the cruelest regimes on earth so long as they give us what we want.
The rest of the world views us as a bunch of immoral opportunists.
Personally, I think the ones not paying attention up to now are only seeing that their fuel and food prices are soaring, and that Expedition in the driveway with the yellow ribbon isn't so much fun.
"with two oil men in the White House, we'll have open spigots of oil"
"the war will be short and pay for itself in oil".
Gotugye @ 23:
Will they then "see" the Cons have managed to leverage the Bill of Rights and Constitution as weapons against?
miss_kitty @ 10:
Only 63%? Wonder what the other 37% believe?
dhkeen @ 2:
The UN are peacekeepers. They don't fight wars. There would have to be peace first, before the UN would go in.
I like Pie @ 18:
rain @ 28:
This is slow boil. Just because people are barely getting by right now on the dim hope everything will suddenly turn around doesn't guarantee anything.
Whoops, my comment went in the wrong place: All of Iraq is a victim of 9/11.
Bonkers Hussein @ 21:
The "No Child Left Behind" has been located. IT IS THE 36%TERS!
Leslie [Bitter Elitist Hussein] @ 32:
How do you extract revenge on an enemy you can't see or find like Al-Qaeda.
C'mon 'Merica... 15 dead kids a week in Iraq is a small price to pay to keep gas under $4.00 a gallon.
If Iraq kicks in some of the $70 billion it made last year in oil exports we may see $3.50 again.
It's a win-win for all... black dress seamstresses, medal makers, morticians, color guards, Cadillac Division of GM & limo drivers, florists, coffin makers, flag makers, the local church collection plate, Red Roof & Denny's... helps the economy, keeps the crude flowing and cements the legacy of our bestest el Presidente ever George W. Bush.
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
Not sure I follow? Unless by al Qaeda, you're referring to Iraq. In which case, as Rummy would say, al Qaeda is located north, south, east and west somewhat of Baghdad.
abarts @ 26:
I don't think Americans are smart enough to make that kind of a connection.
Most Americans are barely intellectually functional. They can go to a store and buy something with a credit card; but, ask them to balance their checkbook and suddenly they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
You can dangle anything in front of an American and they will bite into it hook, line and sinker.
The problem is that Americans have short attention spans. A war or a furby is all fun and games for about a year then nobody wants it; becuase, it is old and outdated.
Americans are trained to think this way. Go after what is in front of them on impulse then discard it after a few weeks, months or a year.
Nobody decides to buy nice things for their kids at christmas; they buy the same cheap fall apart plastic toys that every other parent buys.
Americans buy into our wars the same way.
It's cool for a month or a year, after that they get bored with it and want it to go away.
Oh, and I'm being sarcastic by using Rummy's quote. Because Iraq isn't al Qaeda.
Leslie [Bitter Elitist Hussein] @ 36:
A few of us noticed the U.S. Fleet stealthily heading to Iraq while Bush and the gang we're still waving Bin Laden dead or alive posters.
Why are we going to Iraq under smoke and mirrors when we just started chasing Bin Laden in Tora Bora Mr. Bush?
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
You put out warrants for their arrest and treat it as an international law enforcement matter. Lot's of murderer's are brought to justice this way, to include international terrorists.
Acting like a schoolyard bully just convinces people not to co-operate with you.
do you think Bush thinks the American people think "iraq was a mistake..... it should have been Iran"
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
you don't bother, ignore them and go after long standing enemies of Israel instead.
I like Pie @ 40:
That and they will not discuss it. They will say it is NONE of your BUSINESS.
We're the government, we do as we please, and we are pleased to announce there is NOTHING you can DO about it.
7 YEARS of this.
According to McCain/Bush, we are fighting against evil-doers called "Al Queada." Right?
al-Sadr is the most powerful figure outside the Iraqi government (which makes him more powerful than the Iraqi president or PM), and he is not "Al Queada," so WTF?
Now, al-Sadr wants to kick the Americans out? I say "lets save him the trouble," and pull out. Why not? If we are to fight the liberated Iraqi people themselves, then what are we doing there? Is this a fight worth winning?
The fraud that is the Iraq War should be easy for Obama to campaign against.
Why does 63% of the country hate America and want the terrorist to win?
88% of the world say it was a mistake for the anti-democratic-conservative-activist-court to install Bush supreme dictator of America.
It should be noted that al -Sadr could be considered the George Washington and/or the Ho Chi Minh of Iraq, ready to urge his supporters to keep fighting until the occupiers are finally driven out of his country. Certainly if a military force had occupied the United States, there would be at least one person uniting the populace against the occupiers. Undoubtedly the resistance fighters in Iraq, like those in Vietnam, will continue to fight as long as they are able until the United States has been finally driven from their soil.
al-Sadr to me is Iraq's George Washington.
if I could fight for him I would (if I weren't American). it's leader's like him that our country is in need of. A man for HIS people by HIS people. oh, wait. we have Cong. Ron Paul.
So bush captured and killed Saddam. Saddam who kept a lid on the violent situation to some extent in Iraq. Now we have a man who believes in violence for violence sake. And if he succeeds he will become the next ruler of Iraq. And he will start a worst period of bloodshed than has ever been in the Middle East.
yakfitguy @ 6:
As far as Iraq is concerned, a wise man once said, "You break a lamp, you bought it. And you have to stay in the store forever. And it's an exploding lamp."
Moqtada al-Sadr is in Iran, safely behind the brothel of the Guardian Council Only stupid liberals would consider his words as legitimate threats. Liberals would surrender to anyone, even Confederates.
Marge @ 50:
Chimpy has a head start of about a million, plus HRCs contribution of 1/2 a million Iraqi children from the 90s.
rain @ 28:
The 37% is divided into two groups, the first group is the war profiteers, they think that the invasion of Iraq was the best thing that ever happened. Blow it up, rebuild some, blow it up some more, we are paying for everything in Iraq. In between those events is the many tons of money that is missing, and that is literally tons.
The other part of the 37% are their buddies. Many of whom are in the Congress.
From their standpoint, it is a fantastic success.
It is very, very difficult to turn off the spigot.
SteveIL @ 52:
Scroll for the troll. One of the war profiteers no doubt.
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
The CIA knows much more about al Qaeda than they say. After the CIA set they and their network up to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan during the '80s.
The first thing that set them off were the US troops in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf Boondogle.
And for the other 37% global warming is a hoax, dinosaurs lived with people, and America will always be the greatest country in the world.
maliki has to eiminate sadr, he virtually has no choice at this point and sadr has no one to blame but himself for the situation. when sadr challenged the authority of the iraqi government with his militia, maliki's *only* viable response was to try and destroy the militia and kill sadr if possible.
the unfortunate thing is, the iraqi army sucks so maliki will rely on the americans to kill sadr. oh yay...what fun. civil war time. can we leave yet?
If you need one reason, and one only, to NOT vote for McCain in Nov it's that he's a Republican. The GOP shoved Bush and all of his reckless and ill-considered decisions that'd follow on us back in 2000 and the Supreme Court handed him the job by creating new law. Iraq shouldn't have happened and that's final. Now it's endless, literally, and we're not leaving anytime soon. And why? Because of petulant-brat in chief, Bush. He's not a leader and never has been. History doesn't have to occur for him to be judged, the Present is judging him now, and it ain't pretty. McCain will continue with the same strategies in the Middle East and have the same Rasputin neo-con war criminals whispering sweet nukings over his shoulder until we finally, and wrongly, bomb bomb bomb Iran. The Press is pathetic in their fawnings and pseudo-fellatio over McCain. He's a politician and that's all. No more and maybe less. Sigh.
SteveIL @ 52:
Why do I get the feeling you couldn't even find these countries on a map? Oh yeah, you're a chimpy supporter.
Only 63%. How fucking sad. I guess some liberals will surrender to anything. That other 37% can't all be cons. Some liberals must have surrendered to the constant onslaught of fear mongering by the corrupt Bush administration and its willing cheerleaders in the media. Some must also have surrendered to the desire to avenge for what happened on 9/11, and gone along with the ridiculous idea that Iraq should be attacked. Some must also be willing to surrender their civil rights in disregard to a forefather's warning that those who do so for security end up with neither. Some will also surrender to the notion that, if their candidate doesn't win the nomination, they will not vote, or worse, vote for the status quo.
I believe, though, that most liberals are not willing to surrender to the false promises of an unregulated "free market", nor to the attempts by the ruling class to further dumb down the country, nor to the exploitation of the under classes (which now includes the middle class), nor to the idea that supporting our troops means over extending them and then not caring for them when/if they return.
Liberals have not surrendered when attacked by racist police with dogs and fire hoses, or when corrupt pro-war state militias shot unarmed students, or when union busting private militias murdered laborers. (Please, dear readers, supply more examples of liberal courage.)
But some, (maybe many, for I , too, until now) have surrendered to embarrassment or outright intimidation that has prevented them from speaking out by contacting their elected representatives to make their wishes known. I can't be the only one who has felt that doing so might put me on some type of watch list that would get me audited by the IRS, or prevent me from getting on a plane.
So thanks, SteveIL @ 52, you've reminded me to not be one of the small number of liberals who do surrender. I and the majority of liberals will make our voices heard, close ranks, whomever the nominee is, and not surrender to another four years of misguidance and corruption in our government.
And to the poor government schlep who might be monitoring this site, please take a look in the mirror before going to fuck yourself. I pay your salary, and I'd rather you didn't waste my dime. The real threat still lives in the White House.
I thought the whole thing was a galactic clusterf**k when it was going on, and I was a part of it then.
Stupid, stupid, stupid...
Not a popular response here on C&L, obviously, but seems to me people should really give Ralph Nadar 10 minutes of their time as the ad says. The guy actually has a TEAM, would really work to clean up this horrible mess. It's better to have a solution than to give into despair. The progressive dems really are not place for progressives to hiding, as the convention will show. I have friends going out to Denver already to provide GOOD coverage from the streets. It has been a tragedy watching what happened to moveon.org. Why aren't they running billboards against Nancy Pelosi instead Betrayus?
It is troubling beyond words to see the frustrations of my fellow citizens, which I share, yet be able to do nothing whatsoever about them. Like him or not ( and what civilized human could) Sadaam Hussein was the glue that held Iraq together and the buffer against Islamofascism in that nation. In his absence it is only remotely possible that this poor nation will not become unglued and partition into three regions. It is more than possible, in fact it is very probable that Iraq will become another place in which AlQaeda has a presence. It is very probable that these smart guys in the White House knew this prior to the invasion, cared only for the oil revenues and sating the expectations of the military industrial complex that got them elected.
The past is written and cannot be changed, but I am even more troubled by a possible future in which nothing of import is learned from these last almost eight years ( or one might speculate, all the way back to the Reagan years). I see the three potential occupants of the White House all calling for a continued presence in Iraq, one forever the other two for an unspecified time. The phrase "we broke it now we must fix it" sticks in my craw frankly, considering the amount of blood it will take to even attempt a fix as it is meant.
I believe, as does the poster above, Ms. Simson, that they light at the end of the tunnel is a political figure not wedded to the corporations whose unfettered power under Bush have led us closer to third world status than ever before. I would hope, perhaps before we have troops in both Iran and Pakistan, that the American electorate can break through the myth of the two party system and come to understand that whatever hopes we have for a progressive agenda lie with the third party concept.
All Sadr needs to do is make a deal with Iran AND Syria and the Kurds to secede,
and we'd have an occupation with an angry population and a counter invasion from two sides.
We'd end up nuking someone in the world for the Second time in history.
America, the great democracy and the only nation to have nuked someone to end a war... Twice !
Virginia Simson @ 63:
Virginia
Your response is quite popular with me. If those who claim to be progressive would actually compare Nader's stance on the issues, such as advocating for the rights of the Palestinian people, a change in U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East that would mean the rapid and orderly withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq and Afghanistan, a single payer health care system, the impeachment of Bush and Cheney, the cutting of the bloated military budget, cracking down on corporate power [which Clinton and Obama, who have essentially sold out to the corporate interests, would never do], with Clinton, Obama, and McCain, they would soon realize that Nader is far more progressive than either Clinton or that [alleged] agent of hope and change, Barack Obama.
I like Pie @ 25:
I agree with everything you said, especially how Corporate corruption rules in this former democracy. Well said.
What the hell happend to all the war supporters? to hear everyone tell it now everyone was against the war from the start! Where are all the flags that were on the cars? Where are all the dumb ass rednecks waving the flag and calling anyone who had a question a coward and unamerican? Oh I see you were you were on our side all along, right behind us right? Your about 5 years to late and by the way stay off our side, if we need the dumbfuck part of the country to help, we will send you a memo in crayon!--CEO
People we have very little time. Georgie Poorge always makes a bigger problem to cover up the latest (IRaq) I have every reason he will blow up Nevada and blame it on Iran. 200 dollars says he'll do before memoral day.
to rush to war@69 You are spot on sir, if any one out their thinks for a moment that these criminal scum are going to hand over the reigns of power without a fight,you are not fucking paying attention. They bribed,they rigged votes,padded the supreme court, they ruined careers,excerted illegal powers,illegal signing statements,illegal wire tapping, the list of crimes goes on so far it would fill a book. The most important crime for americans to note is the false flag operation they ran on 911. step down? not likely. They have murdered over 1 million Iraqs, they murdered every victim in New Orleans just as surely as if they had shot them, 4000 of our troops,each one a loved one or friend of someone have been killed because of a war for profit they dirty dealed us into. Make no mistake people these fuckers don't care how many they kill! Al copone,Hilter,Jack the ripper, were pimps next to these guys. Look at their past history, looking at just what we know of is sufficient evidence to think that these nuts would kill us all if thats what they thought it would take! Of course a few would be allowed to live so as to serve them, a few "good ones" as we would be called! CEO
We just had Condi on a few days ago egging them on too. Nice government we have now isn't it. Yes lets instigate this politically while the troops pay. I wonder how much abuse will the military take from the politicians?
Invading Iraq was no mistake - it was a premeditated crime. Those involved in its planning should be removed to the Hague for war crime prosecution. Profiteers of the wars should face criminal prosecution. Supporters and cheerleaders for the invasion and occupation should never again be allowed to hold any office of public trust.
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