Katrina pretty much sums up the kind of help you can expect from the government.

Ne'er mind. I found it on page 2.

"But Holt’s bill hit a snag on April 15 when the White House put out a statement of opposition on the grounds that it was unnecessary to spend the money appropriated in the bill when funding could come instead from the Help America Vote Act.

Republicans say it was the bill’s cost, not the White House’s opposition, that caused them to change their votes. “The version that passed committee on April 2 did not authorize a specific dollar amount,” said Salley Collins, a spokeswoman for Republicans on the Administration Committee. “We didn’t receive the [Congressional Budget Office] score until the 14th of April, one day before it went to the floor. … So we did not know that the proposed legislation would cost $685 million — $50 million more than Holt’s first version.” ---- (Adler, B., 2008)

They don't need no stinking reasons. They're above having to explain anything they do to the "little people." They are what they are -- two faced, perfidious hypocrites. All but one hand's fingers worth -- on both sides of the fence.

At this point I am advocating the return of colored marbles. At least you can tell when someone is stuffing the ballot box -- and they make funny noises while walking...

Isn't this ithe same issue that's been discussed here a few topic below this?

Case of a double topic.

obama's probably going to have to win by a margin of approximately 98% to 2%. and i don't think that's out of reach.

john mccain, i knew alan keyes. i worked with alan keyes. and you, sir, are no alan keyes!!

Krisken @ 4:

Ne'er mind. I found it on page 2.

"But Holt’s bill hit a snag on April 15 when the White House put out a statement of opposition on the grounds that it was unnecessary to spend the money appropriated in the bill when funding could come instead from the Help America Vote Act.

Republicans say it was the bill’s cost, not the White House’s opposition, that caused them to change their votes. “The version that passed committee on April 2 did not authorize a specific dollar amount,” said Salley Collins, a spokeswoman for Republicans on the Administration Committee. “We didn’t receive the [Congressional Budget Office] score until the 14th of April, one day before it went to the floor. … So we did not know that the proposed legislation would cost $685 million — $50 million more than Holt’s first version.” ---- (Adler, B., 2008)

what price a fair and unstolen election !

Krisken @ 4:

Ne'er mind. I found it on page 2.

"But Holt’s bill hit a snag on April 15 when the White House put out a statement of opposition on the grounds that it was unnecessary to spend the money appropriated in the bill when funding could come instead from the Help America Vote Act.

Republicans say it was the bill’s cost, not the White House’s opposition, that caused them to change their votes. “The version that passed committee on April 2 did not authorize a specific dollar amount,” said Salley Collins, a spokeswoman for Republicans on the Administration Committee. “We didn’t receive the [Congressional Budget Office] score until the 14th of April, one day before it went to the floor. … So we did not know that the proposed legislation would cost $685 million — $50 million more than Holt’s first version.” ---- (Adler, B., 2008)

So let me get this straight. This bill would ensure all votes if necessary can be recounted by hand, a bare minimum standard in any democracy which the US currently fails, and the Republicans blocked it because of 50 stinking millions? Sounds like total BS

So the reason the repugs blocked it was because of the price? These same people who have no problem spending 4 billion a month on Iraq and added trillions to the national debt. But a bill that would ensure elections be accountable cost 50 million more then expected, and oh no it costs to much. Give us a break. You repugs think we are fooled by that garbage. We know it's because you plan to steal the election again. Just like you did in 2000 and 2004.

$685 million? Bullshit.
Partisan vendors such as Diebold should not even be allowed to bid on this stuff.
The technical schools and colleges of this country, under the supervision of a non-partisan board of computer engineers, should be designing and building the next system. Call it a class project. Simple hardwired polling stations combined with propietary tabulators kept under lock and key and watchful eyes (i.e. video tape).

The crap they are using now has more security holes than swiss cheese. They are basically IBM-PC clones in a blowmolded case bundled with some poorly written custom software and a (PC clone) tabulator machine. It was a sorry bunch of crap when developed by GEMS, and it remains just as sorry after having been bought by RightWing Diebold - solely for the purpose of cashing in quickly on new "Vote America" scam legislation. (And rig the votes...) The whole goddamned machine shouldn't cost more than a few hundred each. And we're paying what?

Cripes, even HP could do better than this. It's pork barrel crony politics as usual.

11 liberAL Says:
...Bush loyalty runs deep.

Close, but more accurately, "avarice runs deep."

OH MY!!!!! All of a sudden it is money!!!!!! By all means don't do anything that is right for the people. You can bet on one thing soon the republicans won't have to OBSTRUCT the will of the people much longer!!!!! The people are fed up!!!!!!!

wonder how large margin Obama needs over McCain in November to actually win..

liberAL @ 11:

They were for it before they were against it, after Bush told them they were against it.

They did it because they could. The repugs are the same as telling us in advance that they will "fix" the election. And there isn't a d*** thing we can do about it. Bush loyalty runs deep.

Is it loyalty or fear? It is likely that they have skeletons in their closets that the DOJ would expose. They do spy on their own, not just us.

galmud @ 14:

Krisken @ 4:

Ne'er mind. I found it on page 2.

"But Holt’s bill hit a snag on April 15 when the White House put out a statement of opposition on the grounds that it was unnecessary to spend the money appropriated in the bill when funding could come instead from the Help America Vote Act.

Republicans say it was the bill’s cost, not the White House’s opposition, that caused them to change their votes. “The version that passed committee on April 2 did not authorize a specific dollar amount,” said Salley Collins, a spokeswoman for Republicans on the Administration Committee. “We didn’t receive the [Congressional Budget Office] score until the 14th of April, one day before it went to the floor. … So we did not know that the proposed legislation would cost $685 million — $50 million more than Holt’s first version.” ---- (Adler, B., 2008)

So let me get this straight. This bill would ensure all votes if necessary can be recounted by hand, a bare minimum standard in any democracy which the US currently fails, and the Republicans blocked it because of 50 stinking millions? Sounds like total BS

Should be done as in boring Britain and other countries, a piece of PAPER that is marked with Xs and manulally counteed with observers,

To be modern and hip and have fast returns, electronic voting with TWO paper records, one for the voting station , one for the voter to take with them.

To keep elections honest, make every voting session and its ballot paper and its records have a unique electronic ID that is verifiable online on the database. This thing is rather simple to implement and surprising its not standard, having the current no trail affair stinks of somebody wanting it that way.

It is coming high time to make the dirty politicians pay for destroying our democracy!!!! Sigh. OK, Martha, I'm exhausted, switch the channel to American Idol.

JUST A HINT....

BEFORE YOU EXPORT DEMOCRACY, TRY HAVING IT AT HOME !

LYNCHING BY LAPTOP 2

MEANWHILE...

"We are watching a poorly staged rendition of Wag the Dog , interpreted for the morbidly stupid and performed by the criminally insane." - Jules Carlysle

lj @ 29:

Zola Daniels @ 22:

OH MY!!!!! All of a sudden it is money!!!!!! By all means don't do anything that is right for the people. You can bet on one thing soon the republicans won't have to OBSTRUCT the will of the people much longer!!!!! The people are fed up!!!!!!!

Not if they own the voting machines! Reminds me of Third World Democracy/Dictatorships ie. 90% plus victory guarantees---just more subtile, because we're "smarter."

They also own the company that tallies the vote, not just the machines and central computer system that allegedly count the vote

$50 million? That breaks down to roughly 25 cents per voter nationwide. If they'd have let me know I'd have sent them my quarter to get it passed.

All the right steps have been taken & here's the next in the closing of this open society.

"How large a margin does Obama need?" is the proper question to ask as well as "How many people can we get at every polling place to monitor what goes on?" "How many people can we get, at a moments notice, to the front lines of the main battle after the voting takes place? (a la the Brooks Brothers riot that was orchestrated to pressure an end to the 2000 recount) There's a lot more that need to be answered that wouldn't be thought of in a democratic society.

Now, they refuse to make the 1st Tuesday after the 1st Monday of November a National Holiday, so we have to: GENERAL STRIKE ON ELECTION DAY!

Zola Daniels @ 22:

OH MY!!!!! All of a sudden it is money!!!!!! By all means don't do anything that is right for the people. You can bet on one thing soon the republicans won't have to OBSTRUCT the will of the people much longer!!!!! The people are fed up!!!!!!!

My apologies, but that's exactly the point. It doesn't matter how much the American people "are fed up!!!!!!!!" if we don't have the means to produce free and fair elections! It doesn't matter - they still win, because we are - today, right now, in the Soviet Union. Or the United States of Saudi Arabia. We have been since 2000. And what we've learned - at least those of us who are listening, is that all the Republicans need is a RATIONALE that sounds PLAUSIBLE ENOUGH to the corporate media to shut down the entirely persuasive evidence that our elections are being stolen, from ever being heard. That is to say, the aim of the Republicans is no longer to win elections, but just to create a narrative that allows them to steal the election. And the worst part about it is that they are stealing elections in complicity with the elite members of the Democratic Party, who are in cahoots with this fascism. Personally, I don't think that there is any way that they will let Barack Obama anywhere near the White House, no matter how popular he is. The elites in both parties have an interest in maintaining the corrupt, fascist status quo, which is the reason why Hillary won't stop running.

Almost makes you wonder if they might not know something we don't, hmmm? Such as information about plans under way to make certain that McCain wins the upcoming presidential election, perhaps?

fastfeat @ 39:

Andy K Jong Il @ 13:

Whitehouse @ 8:

Isn't this ithe same issue that's been discussed here a few topic below this?

Case of a double topic.

Considering the gravity of effective disenfranchisement, can the topic be discussed too much?

Yet from the MSM: (sounds of crickets chirping).

But, but they would call us "THE FAR LEFT MEDIA." We wouldn't be able to deal with the embarrassment.

Krisken @ 1:

I guess I don't understand why they would do this. What was the awful reason the Republicans gave for reversing their position on this?

They are going to need a lot of larceny to not get routed. The fewer impediments to their intended crimes the better.

Republicans say it was the bill’s cost, not the White House’s opposition, that caused them to change their votes. “The version that passed committee on April 2 did not authorize a specific dollar amount,” said Salley Collins, a spokeswoman for Republicans on the Administration Committee. “We didn’t receive the [Congressional Budget Office] score until the 14th of April, one day before it went to the floor. … So we did not know that the proposed legislation would cost $685 million — $50 million more than Holt’s first version.” —- (Adler, B., 2008)
Hell a measly $685 mil?!?!?!!?!? McSame can find $100's of billions just lying around.

I'll be blunt and honest: this next election had better not go to the neocon fascist party again....or it is time to take to the streets. ALL OUT revolution would be in order. I don't care what mcAncient does between now and then. If this country is taken over by the repug, neocon, fascist crime party.....it is the end of America as we knew it.

These repug legislators are fools. They know damn well it's a crime, and they are doing what they can to continue this illusion of democracy. Damn them all to hell!

moondancer @ 46:

Krisken @ 1:

I guess I don't understand why they would do this. What was the awful reason the Republicans gave for reversing their position on this?

They are going to need a lot of larceny to not get routed. The fewer impediments to their intended crimes the better.

Hehe, I was referring to the BS reason, not the behind closed doors reason. I found my answer and put it in at #4.

Its going to resolve itself down to the blogs vs. the mainstream (fascist) media. Can we in the blogosphere figure out to resist the inevitable theft of the election and organize a sufficient response that can outlast that mind-numbing onslaught of disinformation from the corporate media? The biggest problem in my opinion is that there seems to be no constitutional means to deal with a stolen national election. That's why the American people accept stolen elections - because the outcome otherwise is chaos. So we need, I think, to figure out the constitutional means by which we can respond to the next stolen election, and then organize the American people to do whatever needs to be done to force the government to act on those constitutional processes. Or else all out chaos SHOULD break out. But what I'm saying is that we on the left are like deers caught in the headlights in terms of dealing with the reality that 2008 WILL be stolen, and we still haven't yet wrapped our minds around how to deal with 2000 and 2004, let alone 2008.

Repugnicants operate in lock-step, hard-nosed, unity, which is the mantra of a dictatorship.

So sure, they'd be unanimously against anything democratIC in nature.

you know, I think that we to pull out the big guns and put Glenn Greenwald and Keith Oberman on the case!

ALL POINTS BULLETIN TO GLENN GREENWALD AND KEITH OBERMAN - PLEASE REPORT TO THIS THREAD STAT!

Their advocacy was crucial to getting the FISA bill overturned, but bills protecting our election process are at least as important. Where is our organizing around this issue? Seems like its the most important one to me, and yet bills like this come up and I have no idea what's going on.

Had it been a Halliburton contract, they would have voted for the extra 50 million.

Reply to all! For the first time in many years we have the power, money and new blood fighting to end this corrupted administration. Yes you have the oldies and can't tell a D from a R but with our younger people really helping we will CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT. Because this is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We have to be smarter and have better morals than this past republican party has had. Just work for ALL of the people no matter what race,religion or party. No. 40 Get a positive mindset and help us change the way we are doing business in Washington. BARACK WILL BE OUR NEXT PRESIDENT!!!!!!!! This is from an old 74 yr. old gal who loves this country OF THE PEOPLE!!!!! THE TIME IS NOW!!!

galmud @ 59:

fastfeat @ 41:

euthyfro @ 38:

All the right steps have been taken & here's the next in the closing of this open society.

"How large a margin does Obama need?" is the proper question to ask as well as "How many people can we get at every polling place to monitor what goes on?" "How many people can we get, at a moments notice, to the front lines of the main battle after the voting takes place? (a la the Brooks Brothers riot that was orchestrated to pressure an end to the 2000 recount) There's a lot more that need to be answered that wouldn't be thought of in a democratic society.

Now, they refuse to make the 1st Tuesday after the 1st Monday of November a National Holiday, so we have to: GENERAL STRIKE ON ELECTION DAY!

You know, for a country that (used to) pride itself on its electoral process, is it really too much to ask to make a national holiday for the Presidential election? I mean, it's only one day every four years. What better way to honor the process than to give people the entire day to vote and reflect upon the importance of it. Hell, we could even commercialize it by exchanging gifts, say, copies of the Constitution, etc. (I'll have to work on the marketing angle a little more...)

This has always puzzled a foreigner like myself. Why the hell are Americans holding their elections on workdays?? Isnt it kinda obvious it causes massive problems for lots of voters who cant just take a day or even a few hours off ?

Why cant you even make the Presidential election a national holiday or do what we do, hold elections on Sundays? Whats stopping you?

Whats stopping us is that we aren't in control of our government. Our government could give a rats ass if we can't make it to the polls, hell there's probably a strategic reason for them to do that. We really have no control over what it does. Hell, we don't even elect our own president - theres an "electoral college" to do that for us, seeing as how we're too stupid and misinformed to do it ourself. Lately thought the supreme court just does it for us. The Chinese have about as much control over their government as we do over ours.

"And we’ll know who tried to help — and who got in the way."

I assume that, by the word "we", you mean readers of left-wing blogs. I am sure you don't mean to suggest that it includes, for example, people who read the New York Times, or the Washington Post, or people who watch cable news, or read Time or Newsweek.

No, what those people will "know" is that those incompetent, do nothing Democrats once again failed to keep a campaign promise.

"And we’ll know who tried to help — and who got in the way."

Um... actually only WE bloggers and bloggees know this... and that's the continuing problem. "We" needs to include the rest of America by repeating and repeating this information:

"Republicans voted against fair elections." So the logical question: "Why do you vote and hate Democracy Rethugs??"

A feature, not a bug

Look, if you've packed the courts with creatures loyal to your political machine, then "accusations of fraud and error" don't "mar" an election. They give it a chance to have its "errors" corrected by friendly judges. The only election "error" the Republicans are worried about is that the electorate seems poised to toss them out of the White House. The federal courts would seem much less likely to do this, so of course they would rather give the courts the final say in case the electorate makes that error.

Computer voting without a paper audit trail is absolutely unsurpassed as a means of creating unresolvable legal issues with that voting. Deliberate hacking, or simple programming error, could easily cause many percentage points worth of swing without requiring anything like the vast army of conspiratos that would be necessary to steal such a large swing using older systems. Once a half-way credible doubt is raised, and it would only need to be credible enough gain cert from a court cherry-picked for its sympathy to the cause, with no audit trail, there is no way to prove the negative that fraud/error did not occur somewhere deep within the software or hardware of the computerized system. The courts could do with an election challenged on such grounds whatever they wanted, and we know what the Republican-packed courts want to do with every election.

This is a much easier and surer way for Republicans to steal elections with computerized voting than the way we hear talked about all the time, that they might hack the systems so that the computers give their candidates victories. That way has many drawbacks. It would require a criminal conspiracy, which, though smaller than what you would need to steal votes with older systems, would still need technical folks to do the dirty deed/s, presumably in several states (if we're talking about a presidential election). Whenever you have outsiders who need to be brought into a conspiracy, there's always the risk that one of them will turn. And even though there's no inherent quantitative limit on the scale of votes computerized fraud could potentially steal, it would in practice be very difficult to thread the needle of stealing enough votes to win without making it statistically obvious from results of down-ballot contests that votes have been changed in the big race. You would have to get your hack in ahead of time, and wouldn't really know how many votes need to be "corrected" for your side to win.

The obverse strategy, concocting a law-suit based on the possibility that the other side, or even just faulty software, stole the election electronically, has none of these drawbacks. It's not a crime to steal something if you use a judge, in open court. The only drawback is that it's not available as a strategy unless the courts in which the election will be challenged are sympathetic. But that's a drawback for our side, not theirs.

This is something that the DNC and liberal 527 groups should add to their (hopefully growing) list of issue ads that they can tar & feather the Republicans with.

Every Republican who opposed this should face the prospect of an ad along the lines of:

"Representative ________ voted against you having a secure vote. Your vote and your opinion doesn't matter to Representative ________".

The DNC and liberal 527 groups have to work on an ongoing ad campain, both specific and general, that drums it into the publics mind that:

Republicans = Bad
Republicans = Untrustworthy
Republicans = Corrupt

This need to be a near-constant drumbeat against conservatives.

From now until their kind no longer walks the earth.

EVEN WITH THE REPUBLICANS COUNTING THE VOTES 2 0 0 6 ROCKED.....

----------------JUST TELL MCCAIN HE WON, AND WHEEL HIM BACK TO HIS ROOM

[Please disengage the Caps Lock on your keyboard. There's no need to shout. Thank you. Site Monitor]

JK @ 45:

Gee what a surprise , blocked by the Republicans ! Goooooooo figure ! Olberman reported this last night , that Bush put out a memo stating that he is against the bill and like good little Nazis the Republicans all got back in line . We all know who and what Bush is and that the low life scum Republicans have enabled and supported this soulless and conscienceless silverspoon fed freak all the way . Momma and poppa Bush should be so proud , don't you think ?

Two Democrats, Dennis Kucinich was one, also blocked this bill. I think Kucinich owes everyone on the left and explanation. So far I haven't seen one forthcoming.

Krisken @ 1:

I guess I don't understand why they would do this. What was the awful reason the Republicans gave for reversing their position on this?

They like winning elections with 46% of the popular vote. If it were not for gerrymandering and voter supression tactics, the GOP would have 20% fewer representatives in government across the board - including the White House! The GOP is well aware of this fact, and though they may be stupid, they are evil.