Real Time with Bill Maher: On Sustainabilty
By Nicole Belle Saturday Apr 26, 2008 9:30am
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
Host Bill Maher speaks to Jeffrey Sachs, author of Common Wealth, about the very critical need that we must acknowledge to find alternative fuel resources and focus on sustainable energy. That need is made more critical because with the priorities for funding placed by the Bush/Cheney White House, we're now eight years behind in terms of research.
Let me tell you, you know, if we put a little bit of thought to it, a small part of the Mohave Desert could provide more than half of the electricity needs of the United States without emitting any carbon dioxide, just using the solar power that’s available. Africa could be powering itself with the tremendous amount of solar power. But how much are we investing in this, Bill? We’re investing basically an hour or two of what we spend on the Pentagon for the whole year of our federal research budget right now. The total research budget of the Bush administration on sustainable energy resources has been between 2 and 3 billion dollars, which is 1 and 1 ½ days of what we spend on the Pentagon. So it’s been all war, no sustainability. And look where we are right now, right back into a corner and that’s the problem.
Login or Register to post comments.
How many companies in the field of sustainable energy have made large and continuing contributions to the GOP or the Bush campaigns? Yup, now contrast that with the moneys given to those two recipients by the oil companies and the military providers. One might notice an imbalance there which, if one thinks hard about it, might give a clue as to why our treasury is spent on the latter but not on the former.
Even more important, in this time of campaigning for the next President, how much allegiance do the various candidates for that office already owe big oil and big weapons manufacturers? Before replying, based upon your own unique allegiance of course, your candidate being the good one while the other two are not, its a trick question. All three are up to their elbows in money from all those sources. Thus the future looks bleak as far as a change of direction in both areas is concerned.
A trillion dollars here, a trillion dollars there, and soon you're talking real money. But when it comes to reporting on what the Bush war legacy has cost American taxpayers, the media has been shockingly indifferent to the highest run-up in military spending since World War II.
Eight wasted years...
Jeffrey Sachs says it all.
May I just add.... AAARRRGGGHH!!!!!
Eight years behind? Try 30. Carter had the right idea about pursuing alternatives following the oil shocks of the 70s, but Reagan made sure that fossil fuels were our only priority. Unfortunately Bill Clinton did little to reverse this. The political right and the oil men are depending on keeping us addicted by tapping the largely unused reserves in Iraq. As a bonus, drilling in politically unstable parts of the world will keep the military-industrial complex well funded. Meanwhile the rest of the world will be passing us by.
The essence of the problem, is that people are stupid.
They make a good point on Beef being enviormentally hazardous. Any meat production on the industrial scale it is now can only lead to disaster. If only veggie-mongers would take this talking point instead of the sanctimonious "Meat is murder/we're better than you" angle, which actually is more effective in generating donations from gullible/emotional people who don't realize they're being scammed.
But I digress...
Industrialization needs to scale back. Locally produced foods have to come back...personal gardens have to become the norm. And, most importantly, exotic foods must remain in exotic locations..not shipped anywhere in the world!
You want seafood? Go to the shore! You want Prairie Oysters? Go to the Prairies!
You want Veggies? Grow them!
You want Mangoes? Sail to "Mangoland"!
North America's love affair with the automobile has become a codependent relationship...it's time to start dating other modes of transport, folks. We will soon have no choice but to travel by train or bus...I love trains, so it's win/win for me! I especially love the subways in NYC. Never a dull moment, always something (or someone) to see...
But the best thing that can happen to us is for our present way of life to grind to a halt...it's the only way "stupid people" will wake up. Sure, there will be massive losses of life, but the only way we adapt to change is to be affected by change.
This problem will solve itself later on but not without billions of people suffering tremendously and a few people profiting tremendously. There are steps that could be taken to tilt the scale towards less suffering and less profit but that's like asking politicians to lay off the hookers and closet gay sex - it's just their nature and its not gonna stop just because you ask them to.
bill mahr is really starting to annoy me... what a smug know it all... he may be clever and playing for my team, but i get the feeling he´s drunk the kool aid, and will end up the way of dennis the douche comedian (i forget his name)on fox... he would stab anyone in the back just to save his gig... it is a good illustration of how far to the right things have gone when we revere this eliteist windbag...
good informative guest though...
It's not the energy sources, it's who controls the energy sources. The corporate fascists will only move on to other sources if they can control them. Remember Enron.
I would never mistake Bill Maher's Frustration and contempt for "stupid people" for "Eliteism".
When you see a roomful of people banging themselves bloody with hammers even though you repeatedly warned, in depth, that such a practice is self-destructive, eventually you come across sounding eleitist when you shake your head in disgust and call these hammers-to-the-heads "stupid".
Don't kiss Jeff Sachs' ring. His ideas ruined the Global South. Everything he touches turns to shit.
the want is impeachment
the need is change
the time is NOW!!!
"cheney and bush" must go NOW!!!
Global mismanagement; war crimes, torture; put this bush bastard in jail; and you can derail the whole bush family so we never have to sit through a mess like this again. Its not acceptable to waste 8 years and Trillions of dollars and millions of human lives. What kind of system do we have; where one little ignorant prick can do so much damage for so long???
Verdillac @ 10:
Your absolutely right on that note. The Moron Factor in America is not diminishing, it's growing. I am starting to think it hovering around 48% right now and we can thank the religious right and the "home-schoolers" a lot for that.
DNC ad hammers McSame http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/27/dnc-ad-hammers-mccain-on_n_9881...
Jeffrrey Sachs mentions the Pentagon and the war. As Nick Turse points out in his very relevant book The Complex, subtitled How The Military Invades Our Everyday Lives, the military sucks up enormous of fuel in Iraq and Afghanistan. According to Fuel Line, a newsletter connected to the Pentagon, the Defense Energy Support Center [DESC] supplied 1,897,272,714 gallons of jet fuel for the operations directed in Afghanistan alone. In just a year and a half, from March 19, 2003 to Aug. 9, 2004, the DESC sent 1,109,795,046 gallons of jet fuel for military operations in Iraq. In 2005, the Department of Defense's Defense Logistics Agency stated that the military's aircraft, ships, and ground vehicles were consuming an astonishing 11 million barrels of fuel each month in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places around the globe. The Pentagon has written that it consumes an amazing 365,000 barrels of oil every day, which is the equivalent of what the nation of Sweden consumes on a daily basis.
These numbers demonstrate how the Pentagon is addicted to big oil. Before the Global War on Terror began, the U.S. military was already taking in 4.62 billion gallons of oil per year. It has now been increased even more, with the Pentagon revealing that it consumes 5.46 billion gallons a year.
There is more bad news. The military model Humvee gets four miles per gallon in city driving while the Abrams tank, which is being used in Iraq, cannot even achieve a mile per gallon. B-52 bombers suck up 47,000 gallons each time it flies a mission over Afghanistan. An F-16 fighter goes through $300 worth of fuel a minute.
All of this proves the symbiotic relationship between Big Oil and the U.S. military. As retired Lt. Gen. Lawrence P. Farrell Jr., the president of the National Defense Industrial Association has observed, the Pentagon is "the single largest consumer of petroleum fuels in the United States" while defense technology analyst Noah Scachtman stated in 2007 that the Pentagon is the world's largest energy consumer.
It would appear that the way to drastically cut fuel costs and save on energy consumption is to stop the United States from constantly going to war and draining precious fuel that could be much better used at home.
Bill and Jeffrey touch on each of these issues; the want, need, and time! in order for immediate change, we must come together for immediate action! who's country is this? why must we wait till the situation gets worse? why can't we put our energy into reusability, sustainability, and utilize our own American ingenuity to survive the oncoming train wreck from the havoc we placed on our resources. NOT a shut down but a change of direction. Europe has faced this many times, asian countries are decades ahead in technology and infrastructure. when are we going to be strong again?
never stop questioning authority! a true American hero...
This was maher's last show of the season. He had a powerful lineup and his panel was one that i really was looking forward to hearing from. I have to say though that i feel that he missed this great opportunity to really probe his guests for their thoughts on the great issues confronting our country. Phil Donahue, Ariana Huffington and Gary Shandling.
Where i feel maher missed the boat was perhaps in inviting the bafoon Shandling on the show. he made me indeed uncomfortable every time he opened his mouth. he monopolized the panel and really didn't have anything to say. maher should have known better than to place him on this powerful panel. i've seen him before on the show and he wasn't bad. he just did not fit in with this panel. He should not have been on. Both Phil and Ariana fared well in spite of the distraction. I did enjoy the interview with Sachs, excellent. we need to hear more from him and his colleagues
Please tell us something we don't know. Billions per mo. on a war for oil that we don't need and that we will never see.
I love seeing the oil co. adds about them seeking alternative energy sources and how they want to help the enviorment, which is all so much krap I wanna puke. "Oh aren't the oil companies wonderful for thinking about all this stuff?" Yea right, they only make 40 billion a year and they're throwing a whole 1% at looking for alternatives? Give me a frickin' break!!!!!
$5 a gallon comin' up, but we really care about you.......and that tax rebate you can use on something like, like? gas maybe? Just another way for my tax dollars to go to the criminals!!!!! Bitter? Yea I'm bitter.
McCain the Liar @ 3:
8 years wasted implies nothing happened and we were left with Clinton legacy of peace and prosperity 8 years later. I wish it was simply 8 years wasted instead it was 8 years of running America into the ground for big oil, the defense contractors, the super rich, Halliburton, Bush cronies and corporate elitists at the expense of the middle class.
Impeachment should be the LEAST BushCo should be faced with. BushCo and his reich wing activist courts would inforce capital punishment laws on the average American who killed a convenience store clerk in attempting to steal a 100 bucks in an armed robbery. Yet BushCo in trying to steal Iraq's oil is responsible for the deaths of over a hundred thousand innocent people and 4000 American soldiers but they will get off scot free without so much as an impeachment trial. The poor and middle class must face justice, the super rich and well connected get by with murder...literally and figuratively. There are not only two Americas, there are two justice systems.
the fact is, the big oil companys own, all the energy sources in this country, coal gas solar, they gotcha by the cods and they aint going to let go, if they give you the right to buy a hydrogen car or one driven by solar power your going to pay up the ass for the privelege of owning one! but as long as thiers a drop of oil in the ground they wont allow you to use anything else,
no longer a proud american @ 18:
I think Gary Shandling pissed everyone off. He didn't have the mentality for this kind of discussion, he tried to make jokes out of something that is not joke-worthy. But what pissed me off the most was how he kept taking center-stage and jibbering.
I like many of those ideas that Sachs mentioned. They are at least plausible. The problem isn't that there aren't enough workable, good ideas floating around. The problem is that many Americans simply do not listen to them or ignore the problem entirely. If they do listen they do not want things to change that will directly impact them. I mean lets face it. Most Americans have become accustomed to having what they want, when they want it. If someone goes to the grocery they can pretty much expect that the bread will always be there. If they go to a gas station they can pretty much rest assured that the gasoline will always be there. If it isn't or if it costs to much for a good they whine about it. To get some of those ideas off the ground it may require an entire cultural shift. No politician(s) can do that. What it may take to get some of those ideas off the ground unfortunately, is a lot of pain.
mahers is at best an uninformed twitt, he loves to try and seem that hes smarter then you! at best hes just an insult commedian no better then jay leno ,the only difference between the two is mahers is allowed to tell you how big his pecker is on tv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What we need to dump it the idea that nothing can be done unles somebody is making a profit from it. All sorts of crackpot schemes are being hatched (like the one in the post I link to) to make money from recycling waste and from harnessing sustainable energy but we are losing sight of the fact it was unrestrained capitalism that got us into this mess.
Sun, Wind and water belong to everybody. It is not practical for us all to have a windmill or solar panel on top of our houses but we can embrace the idea of co-operation
For those of you who may remember in the 70s' during a long term energy crisis we were asked to do many things to save on energy such as: turn off lights when leaving a room, turning the thermostat down to 68f.
Of all the change in habits that Americans made, the one that I remember most was cutting back on Christmas lights.
Cities all over this country discontinued their contest for the most opulent displays of illumination because they realized that the city was promoting the waste of energy through their traditional contest. Many Americans cut back on their Christmas displays.
Fast forward 30 years and the contest and elaborate displays are back in vogue.
The lights that you buy now are more "energy efficient" than the old lights, and LEDs are becoming more popular, but one look up and down the streets of most American cities reveals far more illumination than ever before. The equivalent of such displays would be the guy who decides that he wants to lose weight by drinking light beer, then downs an entire 12 pack and wonders why he has not lost weight.
The solution is what do WE want and by what means do WE serve our own special interest.
With all due respect, the US military's use of fuel is not what makes our country the greedy hog of oil that it is. The USA, with 4.6% of the world population, uses 25% of all oil pumped in the world and 40% of all gasoline in the world. That's 22 million barrels (each with 42 gallons) of oil per day.
As such, the military uses about 1.7% of the total oil used in the US. I agree about the tie-ins between the MIC and Big Oil and the general American exceptionalism/ignorance/greed/etc that pervades. Nevertheless, more of the blame to our oil consumption rests with big ol' V-8 powered SUVs/pickups and a society that is based upn cheap transportation and blatant consumerism.
Back to Sachs, he is quite correct about our miniscule (relative to our economy & federal budget) funding of alternative energy and improved means of conservation.
It's a problem for the unwashed masses. It isn't a problem for the oilmen in the White House.
"Let them eat petroleum jelly. Heh, heh, heh. Look, Lynne, our portfolio just rose ten thousand percent in value."
Not one little "non-war mongering" premptive thought in the empty skulls of Bush, Cheney and the entire GOP. Not surprising. Just a few month's ago Bush was still singing the praises of this great "republican" economy.
"As long as me and my cronies are making a killing, things must be great," even if they really suck. Isn't that what conservatism is all about? "Got mine, fuck everybody else." Or taking the macro approach to conservatism, "got mine, fuck the entire planet!"
so fitting
Listen to Hillary get booed for saying "Senator Obama complained about the "hard" questions in the ABC debate" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080427/ap_on_el_pr/democrats At the 1:40 minute mark
I ran a day-long outdoor music festival on a solar panel, back in the '90s... it was a trailer-mounted panel that was mobile and could be hooked up for multiple uses (designed to pump water in rice fields for demos for Heifer Project Int'l) -- it ran a 2,000 watt PA like a dream, no sweat, no mess, no noise or pollution. Much better than a gas-driven generator.
Popularizing solar power through readily accessible promotions such as outdoor concerts would be an easy way for the public to see and experience the possibilities of solar energy. The space station uses solar panels, so why can't the average American city?
Habitat-Vic @ 27:
There seems to be a huge disconnect here. My point at comment #16 is that the United States is certainly not helping by wasting huge amounts of energy and fuel by engaging in needless wars and occupying countries that were never a threat to anyone in these United States. All of that fuel that was consumed by all those weapons of mass destruction could have been put to much better use if it was used by businesses and people here in the United States. I am simply at a loss how you or anyone else could possibly assert otherwise.
Verdillac, the problem is not the "veggie-mongers". The problem is people, including environmentalists, who KNOW that meat is a huge cause of global warming and yet refuse to change their diet. Don't blame the messenger.
Habitat-Vic @ 27 Says,
"As such, the military uses about 1.7% of the total oil used in the US."
Yes but consider that of the 300 million people in this country, the military has 1.4 million active duty and 1.4 reserve duty personnel. So theres a huge disparity in the per person consumption rate. And look at what they use it for. The impact of MILITARY conservation of resources would be significant both economically and enviromentally.
Also that does not factor in the use by the military defense contractors and other private military related business.
Just like stem-cells, it still gets done... it's just a lot slow.
======
34 j Says: Verdillac, the problem is not the “veggie-mongers”. The problem is people, including environmentalists, who KNOW that meat is a huge cause of global warming and yet refuse to change their diet. Don’t blame the messenger.
======
There's so much else we could do that if we did it, we wouldn't have to force people to overhaul their lives.
Grab new bulbs, force industries to comply with tight restrictions, regurgitate solar/wind/nuclear all over America to replace coal. It's that simple.
he says 8 years wasted i say 35 years wasted...i remember my dad talking about these same issues in 1974!!!
Verdillac @ 10:
Banging the heads of cow and pigs bloody with sledge hammers for meat consumption, I call that animal cruelty.
There can be no sustainability without population control. If we can't find a way to stop population growth NOW then we may as well let the Earth go into the toilet sooner rather than later. Better that than watch every species and every resource be consumed so that whatever comes later will have something to use besides our garbage.
Dr Sachs encapsulates it so well. Sustainability is THE issue of our times, and solar energy, which the US has great tracks of uninhabited, sun rich southwestern deserts to take advantage of, has the added major advantage of a minimal environmental footprint.
Per a recent cover story in Scientic American: "A massive switch from coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power plants to solar power plants could supply 69 percent of the U.S.’s electricity and 35 percent of its total energy by 2050".
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan
@31 Ruthless People take your Obamazoid propoganda to another thread!
mojave not mohave
Anybody who thinks there is any hope for this planet I just have to give you one word of advice: 'HA!'
33 Erroll Says:
"There seems to be a huge disconnect here. My point at comment #16 is that the United States is certainly not helping by wasting huge amounts of energy and fuel by engaging in needless wars and occupying countries that were never a threat to anyone in these United States. All of that fuel that was consumed by all those weapons of mass destruction could have been put to much better use if it was used by businesses and people here in the United States. I am simply at a loss how you or anyone else could possibly assert otherwise."
I think you both made great points. I would agree that Bush's wars have used up a lot of resources that could have been better suited for use here in the United States. As everyone knows, a military uses a lot more resources when at war than at any other time. With that being said, even if Bush's wars never did occur the problem remains and that is where vic's point comes in. There is a huge supply and demand issue here that encompasses a whole range of natural resources. Many countries are industrializing at faster rates and to do it they are sucking up a lot of those resources and this includes oil. Meanwhile, demand for those same natural resources has not dimished here in the United States and with that the supply of those natural resources are being outstripped by an ever increasing demand. If this continues and no one is willing to give or opt for an alternative source of energy another conflict could be inevitable at some point.
A major hurdle which a lot people resist is change. Call it complacent, lazy or stupid, many people hate change and live under an indica couch lock. They have to turn the light switch on for themselves to accept a change for the better. Will the fall of the US economy or the price of gas enlighten them? FUD is a poor cause for behavior modification because it usually results in panic, ie the last 7 yrs.
That's what I've been arguing for years.
I was stationed at Edwards AFB for my entire Air Force enlistment, but for basic, and Edwards is in the Mojave desert.
I don't know about the entire country, but areas of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California could easily power their entire region.
The problem is you can't put sunlight into cars. We need some kind of battery. You could recharge your car overnight with household current, but you would need to live in a house. I can't figure how it would work in a apartment, condo, townhome etc.
Ideally, I see all these states linked together, so if one goes down for a day or two of bad weather, the others can kick in. But that might require Nationalization of our energy resources.
And you know how that N-word affected Mahommed Mossadeq.
Our blithely hedonistic species bemoans the imminent "end of this planet" without a shred of irony. This planet will not end when (and if) our destructive species tips the evolutionary scales towards our own extinction. Earth will continue orbiting the Sun, the evolutionary process will continue to produce new species, the vile detritus of humanity will subside into nothingness...
Please, ponder our relative insignificance before you make grand pronouncements about the end of the Earth. She will be here long after we're gone.
Che's Lounge @ 35:
Very well said. As I tried to point out,the use of fuel and oil in the wars that the United States insists upon waging is a complete waste of energy that could and should have been used in this country. The use of that energy by the U.S. military was completely counterproductive as it did not help people; on the contrary, it was used to kill and maim and cripple people along with needlessly destroying the infrastructure of Iraq and Afghanistan. Not exactly the best way of using all that precious fuel and oil that is instead used to move forward tanks and planes and ships, which are all designed to inflict death and destruction upon third world countries by the less than benevolent U.S. military.
We can't buy meat in mass quantities if me don't have the industry to supply it..once upon a time one pig or cow fed a family for almost a full year. Meat was still scarce.
I will, unapologetically, love eating meat forever. But If I can't get it as often as I do now, I'll not eat it. I'll have to hunt for it, or raise it in my back yard. Of Course, I eat a lot less meat than I let on, just to rattle the cages of veggie-totalitarianists. I can grow hemp and harvest the oil when push comes to shove.
Throwing moral judgements at meat-eaters, is like throwing moral judgements at people of a particular gender preference. I don't ever expect someone to change from being Gay to living a life of a hetero. I don't require them too either. It's wrong to think that, by issuing violent innuendo and insults that I'm going to change who I am...It may have worked for Organized Religion once, but not for long...uninformed zealots for any cause, in the end, hurts the cause. Some causes are lost to begin with, but that won't stop them from extracting millions of dollars from emotionally unstable individuals who simply want to fit in and conform to unrealistic Dogma just to feel liked. Or to feel like they are accomplishing something other than making annoying buzzing sounds.
On another subject,
ysbaddaden Says: "...The problem is you can’t put sunlight into cars. We need some kind of battery. You could recharge your car overnight with household current, but you would need to live in a house. I can’t figure how it would work in a apartment, condo, townhome etc."
We have to let go of our cars...we are too dependent upon them and that was the goal alll along...we will be giving them up regardless, soon.
Anybody who tells you that widespread use of Solar Power in homes, electrically powered vehicles are not possible with today's technology is, quite frankly, full of shit. Hell, the Space Station runs on solar power, but we're supposed to believe it's not possible to have widespread commercial use of Solar power here on Earth? Bullshit! We have the technology and we have the money (or we did until Chimpy and his buddies looted the treasury), the only thing lacking is the political will of the people. Face it folks, it's not our country anymore; it's Exxon's country; it's GM's and Ford's country; it's Lockheed Martin's country; we just live in it. A project on the scale of the Space program of the 1960's, geared toward the creation and implemention of renewable energy would go a long way to alleviate the current energy and environmental crisis. America has to change direction, and to do that we need to take our country back from Big Oil and the Military Industrial complex. But it's not gonna happen, because we live in a country where a large portion of our populace just doesn't possess the political will to make change happen. Instead, we get "leaders" like George W, John McCrazy, Hillary and Bill and yes, to a somewhat lesser degree, Obama (I support Barack Obama wholeheartedly, but I have no illusions about him being anything other than an Establishment Democrat).
Yes, and BM had his little pissy moment cause Jeffery didn't stay ON MESSAGE non-politically...kinda funny thing for someone whose who program IS political to bemoan! And Arianna continued her PROP UP OBAMA crapola while Shandling was even more obtuse than usual! MY GOD he needs therapy! I'm so totally sick and tired of people who have such limited critical thinking skills that they cannot understand that one can be FOR someone without being AGAINST someone else...I thought that was what this primary campaign was all about...but, NO, we must make it DESTROY the candidates while blaming THEM for DESTROYING the party! This is what happens after nearly a decade of listening to overpaid BUBBLEHEADS (like Russert, Matthews, etc.) appeal to those who need someone to tell them HOW and WHAT to think! It's been depressing watching it devolve ever since LIMPBALLS began to gain attention....don't you believe that our MSM can't elect McCain if they choose to...just watch it happen AGAIN....
Yes, Jake at 36, you are exactly what I am talking about.
You too Verdillac, could you be any more immature? You eat meat to piss vegetarians off? Congratulations.
There are many things that contribute to global warming, but meat eating also contributes to disease, obesity and animal cruelty. Heaven forbid we talk about that. Moderation in all things? Really? Does that only apply to meat eating or does it apply to animal abuse, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc?
Eating non-meat items can also contribute to disease. Some vegetarians eat drink dairy products, and get amazingly obese on a diet of macaroni and cheese, grilled cheese, cheese quesadillas etc.
Vegetables are either mass produced with pesticides (f**king insect murderers!), or if they're organic they can have trace elements of feces, even if you wash them first.
Of course there's always fruit. But it's like the old joke, "You know what's worse th an biting into an apple and finding a worm?
Half a worm."
In fact, most desserts are non-meat and do more damage to the body than any other food group.
Unless of course you count one of James Bond's favorite desert in the book Casino Royale, which is a large beef bone that he cracks open to scoop out the marrow with specially designed spoons.
How did a thread about the viability of solar energy become about vegetarianism vs omnivorism?
Funny thing is I heard on a scientific documentary on PBS that eating is our way of gaining solar energy. We can't do it like plants with photosynthesis, but we have to eat the plants, and the animals that eat the plants to get their solar energy stores.
And I don't think their corporate sponser was McPtomaine either.
We agree the Earth is in jeopardy; the situation is dire and immediate action is needed. If you agree with Maher that people are perhaps too stupid to do the right thing, and if you are serious about saving our precious, irreplaceable planet, then what is to done? Merely blaming stupid people is not going to save our Mother!
A few years ago I heard a physicist passionately warning that he believed atom-splitting experiments about to be done at Fermi Labs would likely trigger a reaction similar to those that cause stars to go supernova. If he was right our solar system was to be destroyed . He was apparently wrong. But had he been right, then it should be obvious that being a prophet of doom, particularly one who happens to be accurate, is a truly thankless role.
How about each of us doing everything possible in our individual spheres to improve the situation, and then getting together with others as often as possible to learn from one another and to develop plans for enlightening the ignorant and spurring the powerful to action. Workers shape the world, spectators watch it end. I'd much rather be part of that grand loving celebration marking the success of our human family in changing course than to be staggering through carnage shouting, "I knew this was going to happen! I told you so!"
Anyone who voted for Bush/Cheney who was not rich and would not benefit from their policies was conned. Not other way to say it. Their ideology is about individual greed, aka pull yourself up by your own bootstraps or I have mine now go get yours. They fooled a bunch of poor people that Republicans are the "real" Americans and will save you from gays, terrorists, communists etc. Now we are seeing the full impact of a their ideology at work and doesn't this country and the world look grand now?
Solar will be the way to go..tidal power too... Hydro electric plants/ dams, not so much. I know we'll find a way to harness already existing waterfalls.
The surplus population will have to be reeled in and moderated too, otherwise we'll have massive epidemic outbreaks doing the moderating for us, and that is a bit too traumatic.
♣Bangkok Bob♠ @ 14:
I disagree to some extent ... it's corporate media that's to blame ... they have done a damn fine job of dumbing down America ... the religious right and home schoolers don't have that kind of influence ... corporate media is definitely to blame for Americans being so politically stupid. Election fraud that is taking place now couldn't if Americans were politically aware.
It will be so nice to see Phil Donahue ... lately I've been getting so many "Donahue fix" ... man I sure missed him all these years ... it's so nice to have him back where he belongs ... even if it's for a short while ...
Verdillac @ 56:
Agreed about tidal power. Was something going on here off SE Florida coast, but I haven't heard about it recently. Will look up and post back.
depressing.
Soooo divided on Sachs -- his economic theories are really what's put the world into a lot of the position it's in right now, yet when it comes to the environment he's saying what I've been thinking for a long long time. How can I trust a person who's trying to make life better for everyone on the planet when he's spent so much of his life to this point making it worse for people who aren't rich? Part of me want him to just shut the hell up, but isn't it better for him (being in a position of having the ear of people in power) to be able to put out THIS message?
Erroll @ 16:
The spice must flow, young Atreides, so says CHOAM....
ysbaddaden @ 46:
It already exists, electrical power is distributed via a grid, has been for years, ditto to some degree for natural gas.
Petroleum is refined in shared regional refineries and all companies pool and distribute from the shared regional refineries not just their own.
Telecoms is (Inter) national and grid like, telephone and internet, shared backbones for common use by all (metered but shared).
So basically shared social works for big business along with generous taxpayer subsidies to iron out their bad times , its just that they like to keep the benefits at the corporate level, not much trickle down for 'man in street'.
We also generally pay for infrastructure improvement in the form of fed taxes on utilities, the cable companies got billions over the last 10- 15 years to provide universal fiber (and broadband) to 90% of America, guess what the ISPs kept the money and didnt deliver.
UHC works like this in most countries, the USA is the only western country with such a unbalanced and profit driven unfair and wasteful system.
I find it ironic that Sachs is being touted as a "sustainability" expert when he's got a horrendous history of destroying economies with quasi-Friedman-laissez-faire capitalism price controlling as well as being a total PR pimp (he's Bono's favorite economist). I think his guilt might actually be moving him in the right direction, but I think there are better people Bill could be talking to.
What research needs to be done? My home with pool and hot tub is all solar powered. My business where I have air conditioning and I have six employees all on high end workstations making an animated feature film is soon to be all solar and microhydro powered. Why do people say this is a thing for the future? Buy some panels. Unplug yourself from the machine that is eating the world!
General_Rennenkampf @ 62 Says:
"The spice must flow, young Atreides, so says CHOAM…."
The parallels are just uncanny.
Eating meat not only wastes the planet's precious resources, it also wastes the body.
There's a reason why some of the greatest thinkers throughout history have been vegetarian. As your arteries clog up with all the fat, less blood and oxygen can flow correctly to the brain.
Meat and dairy products will also change a body's chemistry and hormones, leading to many side-effects such as thinning of the bones and various types of cancer. Many people who become vegetarian (vegan in particular) say they notice a difference in mental clarity, among other benefits such as more energy, losing weight and better sex drive. Many athletes are vegetarian–Carl Lewis being a great example.
Verdillac @ 6:
advice on making an argument: don't begin a diatribe accusing your readers of being stupid. i stopped reading at that point and tried to imagine the condescending twit behind responsible for such an opening.
Erroll @ 16:
Very original, thought-provoking post. This is one of the best comments I've read on C&L.
This post makes me wonder if the energy requirements of the US military could be a significant, unacknowledged driver of current US foreign policy.
It's not a stretch. The energy requirements of the British Navy were a major factor in British strategy and foreign policy in the years leading up to World War I. In 1907, the First Lord of the Admiralty (a military staff position which combined power equivalent to Secretary of the Navy), Winston Churchill, ordered the conversion of British naval ships from coal to oil power. This enabled the construction of much bigger and faster warships, which could carry bigger guns. The long-standing naval arms race with Germany was intensified. Overnight, British foreign policy completely changed. Britain had many coal mines, but no oil. It became necessary to find secure oil supplies and build depots around the world where British warships could refuel.
After World War I ended, Britain drew up the borders of modern-day Iraq, in large part to get at its newly-discovered oilfields. Again, Churchill played a central role, this time as Colonial Secretary. By the 1930s, holding Iraq became too costly for Britain. Churchill reversed his aggressive colonialist policy and urged withdrawal in order to save money and British lives, and to prevent the humiliating military defeat he saw as inevitable.
The British occupation of Iraq was motivated in large part by the need to fill the oil tanks of British battleships.
How much of US foreign policy in the Middle East motivated by the US military's thirst for oil?
Sachs made a crap argument about complete crap and since he is smarter than Friedman must know better. Yeah, sure - a couple trillion dollars in public investment is going to make magic technology that lets us and the rest of the world consume all the junk we want without anything bad happening. Maybe Sachs can introduce Green Shock Therapy and solve all our problems the way he did for Russia.
sucking the entire nation's electric supply out of death valley may not be the smartest idea either. we don't know the ecological or meteorological implcations of sucking so much energy (ultraviolet radiation) out of the area. that being said, it's long overdue that we as a nation should have enacted a national program/mission along the lines of the apollo program that would have as a goal: clean alternative commercially viable energy independance for the country.
we could have developed petroleum and hydrogen fuel cells, wind turbine farms, tidal power stations, geo thermal, solar, and the biggest energy holy grail of them all, fusion reactors.
instead we've gotten mr. big ass oil for the last 7 and a half years. mr. "oh let's drill anwar", or, "i'll just as the shiek to lower oil prices...he's my good ol' boy". well surprise chimpy! yore "good ol' boy" jest spit in yore eyeball durn it
jackass.
Soulwax NY Excuse
I am trying to get my arse together to go to work, so I haven't read the prior posts (which may answer my question) but is this the same Jeffrey Sachs that helped to undermine economies like Poland's with a Milton Friedmanesque development scheme (essentially 'shock therapy' for economies) among others?
I ready enjoyed Jeffrey Sach comments. As he says there is no time to lose.
For those that are open to a message of hope, and real answers to this problem I direct you below to a 30 minute documentary.
A major TV network in the US has invited a very special, profound, insightful and compassionate man to appear for an interview. Japan has offered a similar invitation This individual will astound his audience with a message that will penetrate to their heart, and create in them a desperate need for unity and change. This documentary talks about this man, his history, and how he will inspire us together rebuild this ailing world.
http://www.denveropenmedia.org/node/3725
bridger Says:"advice on making an argument: don’t begin a diatribe accusing your readers of being stupid..."
The essence of the problem, is that people are stupid.
That is was quoted by Bill Maher..I should have quoted him...
if you watched the video, you would have picked that up...yes, people are stupid..it's not condecending to say so, just a fact of life, doncha argree, Mr diatribe?
Verdillac @ 75:
People definitely aren't stupid, though we more often than not are ruled by our own (generally unenlightened) self-interest. This makes many of us easily manipulated. There's also the thing that we aren't generally given the truth about anything, or if we are, it's covered by a chocolatley coating of lies and disinformation.
Well, that chocolaty coating doesn't taste very good!
Here's a nice quote:
"A man who knows, and knows he knows, is wise. Follow him.
A man who knows, and knows not he knows, is asleep. Awaken him.
A man who knows not, and knows he knows not, is unlearned. Teach him.
A man who knows not, and knows not he knows not, is a fool. Shun him."
—source unknown
and my contribution to the above
"A fool, who knows he is a fool, is proud to be a fool and wishes not to learn how not to be a fool, is stupid".
you can see this interview at this link:
youtube.com/watch?v=QTbTBQj2VJk
It is definitely worth listening to. The book is much better, and should be on the NY Times best sellers very soon.
First, the Mohave Desert is not even close to bid enough to supply "more than half" of the country's energy needs. If you look at the actual effeciency of solar system you'd see that it would take almost the envire state of Arizone to supply that much power. Then, of cource, you have the reality that you only have power whe the sun shines. I don't know about you, but I mostly use light and heat at home at night. Can anyboy say a mountain range of batteries?? Then you have soemthing called "line loses" that will consume the majority of the power long before the energy reaches a larege metro area, except southern california. [Line loses are the reason extension cords have to get fatter as they get longer.]
Over simplification of these types of issues is one of the major reasons many people are unsatasfied with the rate of progress in the field of alternative power.
Maher is right; the real problem is that we are a nation of idiots. We elected Bush and Cheney instead of Gore. We choose a ludicrous oil war over conservation and innovation
Login or Register to post comments.