John McCain On Healthcare: The Ultimate Hypocrite And Yes, Liar
By Cliff Schecter Thursday May 01, 2008 9:40am
Roger Hickey has a great post at ourfuture.org on the "dangerous fraud" that is John McCain's healthcare plan. As I point out ad nauseam in The Real McCain, McCain's positions are not simply fraudulent. The "straight-talker" rarely limits himself to simple dishonesty.
First, read the email The McCain Campaign sent out yesterday on this issue:
My Friends,
Today, there are 47 million uninsured individuals in the U.S., and nearly a quarter of them are children. High costs and limited access are the underlying, fundamental problems in our healthcare system.
As you know, both Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are touting outrageously expensive and unrealistic universal health care plans - a government monopoly over health care.
Unlike my opponents, I do not believe that all of our nation's problems can be solved by turning control over to our government, with all the tax increases, new mandates and government regulation that come with that idea.
Today, our campaign began running a television ad focused on health care - that you can view by following this link - to ensure all Americans hear the truth about how I plan to tackle the challenges facing our nation's health care system. To ensure this important ad is aired in as many markets as possible, I'm asking for your immediate financial assistance.
I believe the key to real reform is to restore control over our health care system to the patients themselves. Americans need new choices beyond those offered in employment-based coverage.
That's why, as president, I will seek to encourage and expand the benefits of Health Savings Accounts, tax-preferred accounts that are used to pay insurance premiums and other health costs. These accounts put the family in charge of what they pay for.
In addition, I will reform the tax code to provide every family the option of receiving a direct, refundable tax deposit - effectively $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 cash for families to offset the cost of insurance.
The reality is that both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama, in their haste to garner support for their so-called "solutions," are promising more than they can deliver. And, once again, they are simply out-of-touch with the real problems facing our health care system and how to solve them.
Here are the facts: Under the Democrats' plan, we will have all the problems, and more, of the current health care system - rigid rules, long waits and lack of choices - and we risk degrading the system's great strengths and advantages, including the innovation and life-saving technology that make American medicine the most advanced in the world.
My friends, this is not my definition of real reform. I hope you will join me in my fight to tackle the real problems facing our nation's health care system by making a contribution of $50, $100, $250, $500, $1,000, or $2,300 to help fund this important ad.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Sincerely,
John McCain
A good rule of thumb: When John McCain says "my friends," start looking for a bomb shelter. Another good rule of thumb when McCain utters this trite phrase: Dishonesty is about to morph into full scale hypocrisy.
Here is a man who has been on government healthcare his entire life (daddy was an Admiral)--all seven decades--who dares deride it by saying, "Unlike my opponents, I do not believe that all of our nation's problems can be solved by turning control over to our government... ."
No, only his own healthcare is worthy of that.
In case you missed McCain's position: Government healthcare is good enough to pay his hospital bills with your "taxes," to quote him, but it is not good enough for the rest of us--oh and by the way, can you spare $1000 "my friends?" That means a lot coming from a guy who enjoys lounging at 8 different houses on his wife's inherited dime, and laughably calls other candidates "elitist."
With straight talk like that, who needs mendacity?
Cliff Schecter is the author of The Real McCain: Why Conservatives Don't Trust Him And Why Independents Shouldn't. Every time you buy a copy (for only $10!), an angel gets their wings.
** Cross-posted at a few other locations
Login or Register to post comments.
first
Ya...McSame is a Jackass. WALK IT OFF!
It's hopeless. No one even gives a sh*t anymore.
McBoosh: "Uh, what's the republican thing to say here...Uh.....tax cuts!!! Yeah, tax cuts!!!"
Did someone say Taxes ? McCain for Preznit !
Stop smoking and ride your fucking bike, you fat lazy panhandlers!
Health care will never be achieved by working through for-profit insurance.
I just did a little math, and if 100 million taxpayers took advantage of this rebate, then this would cost us $250 BILLION! And he says this is better than a horrible "entitlement program." Will we be borrowing these billions from the Chinese like the billions we are borrowing for his endless war?
Yep, I can't figure out how this guy is even still considered a valid candidate by half of America (the dumb half obviously). 90% of the stuff out of his mouth just isn't true, and the other 10% can be chalked up to Alzheimer issues. I seriously hope that those people in flyover country (and for good reason), get their act together and vote in their best interests as opposed to tryin' ta stop them damn gays frum marryin'.
however, if McCain is still somehow elected, This country will deserve every single thing that happens to them. The idiots for voting for him, and the rest of us for not doing enough to show them the correct path.
Is it just me, or does the term "details later" seem to be a recurring theme when it comes to every McCain proposal?
I'm serious. EVERYTHING he proposes, he provides no details on how he'll pull it off. The media says "Details to come" and NEVER criticize him for it.
It is my right as an American to lay down and die on the curb in front of the Emergency Room without medical intervention.
I don't have medical insurance and that is my right!
Thank you!
Single payer is the only answer. What is the question.
What a idiot, I just lost my job, but because I can retire I will be able to continue my healthcare at the same rate I paid as a employee. If I had to go out as a single person and get my own healthcare is would at cost me atleast 1500 a month. What the hell is a 2500 dollar tax credit going to do? This idiot who has never had to spend one penny on healthcare because he has always been part of the elite class know anything about what healhcare really costs? Ray-gun blue collar dems better wake up and throw this clown and all his neocon friends into the garbage heap, were they belong. Time for all you blue collar voters to start to vote for you and your familys interests.
Boy this country is in for a rude wake up.
We should listen to the doctors, even they agree we need change.
Did the MSM even stop to consider that the people who can least afford health coverage don't make enough to qualify for a tax rebate of $5000 per family?
If you didn't like what he said today in that letter, just wait a couple of days and he'll change his plan to something else.
Let's ask him how being on the govt healthcare plan has worked out for him these past 70 plus years. Did he ever bail out of it because he found it to have "rigid rules, long waits and lack of choices"?
worse than bush. no doubt.
it costs $12,000, so families will lose $7,000/year. and there is nothing to indicate that insurance costs will be affected in any way.
WAFPOS!!!!!!!!
Do worry McShame will forget what he said in three days and we'll have a new proposal.
He still hasn't answered ELIZABETH EDWARDS.
Breaking!!!!!
Barbara Walters reveals past affair with US senator
See, this gives you an accurate clue of the age group that controls the media and decides whats important and what people should be focusing their attention on.
Your average brain-dead Republican:
Every time I hear the words "My Friends", I reach for my checkbook.
May 02 3:55 AM
A top cleric on Friday vowed that Iran would deal a knock-out blow to what he called maniacs in the United States and Israel if they ever attacked the Islamic republic.
About the only thing Iran has in common with us is they have the leadership they deserve.
Pretty ironic isn't it.
I didn't even point out the holes in his plan. How is a $5k tax credit going to pay for my med/dental insurance? How is it going to allow people with pre-existing condition get new insurance if they are forced to switch providers? How are people without employer sponsored healthcare going to afford COBRA on $5k? All the Re-pig-lickers do is pray of the fears of long waits, and somehow losing our most advanced medical status. A bit of news here, America runs dead last behind all our peers in every medical statistic - life expectancy, number of healthy years, infant mortality. The difference? Every other country has Universal healthcare.
NPR did a study of the healthcare in other nations. In Japan, they see a doctor 3x a year. The cost to insure a family of 4 is about $150/month with or without a job. If you can't afford it, the local government helps. The insurance provider must take you regardless of any previous conditions as well. The Japanese don't have to see a Primary Care Physician first, they can just walk into a specialist's office and be seen immediately. They pay $10/day to stay in a hospital and stay in hospitals 10 days longer than Americans. A funny moment occured when the interviewer asked a doctor if he had ever heard of anyone going bankrupt because of medical bills. The doctor spoke English quite well and was conversing fluently during his interview. Yet, he had to ask the translator for clarification because the concept of going bankrupt for healthcare was such an alien thought, that he didn't think he hear the question properly. Contrast that with the fact that well over 50% of bankruptcies in the US are directly related to medical costs.
And McCain wants to give us a $5k tax credit? Someone has no idea about healthcare works for the average person. Even WITH insurance you can still be on the hook for tens of thousands after a medical procedure and hospital stay.
They said the same thing about social security and public schools. You see how wrong the Republicans were there, and they're wrong again in this case.
McBush-3 ........... more of the same-old only older.
pissed off patricia Says: If you didn’t like what he said today in that letter, just wait a couple of days and he’ll change his plan to something else.
Let’s ask him how being on the govt healthcare plan has worked out for him these past 70 plus years. Did he ever bail out of it because he found it to have “rigid rules, long waits and lack of choices”?
Great question. Do you think someone from the msm will ask it? Me neither.
So, at first McCain proposed to work with the states in off setting the costs of health insurance (which to me translated into the states will be picking up the bill) and now he proposes to set up individual savings or tax preffered health care accounts instead. The problem with those forms of accounts is that they have to be funded by the individuals themselves which does little good for those that are unemployed or have little left over after they have been paid to put into them. In addition, those accounts will have to be managed by someone and that someone will more than likely charge a fee for doing it.
Even if people did have the funds on hand to fund those accounts it still would be, protracted out, years or even several years for them to have saved enough funds to cover even the basic health care costs. This is the same proposal that Bush put forth regarding Social Security and it failed. McCain's new proposal will fail also because its just not feasible or realistic.
L.A. Confidential @ 22:
Yes, and they both claim a close relationship with a god (or spirit or sky-person, whatever)
Biggest problem in the world ???? ..... religions
Mugsy @ 10:
New name for St. John: Timothy McVague
Here are the "facts": Under the Democrats’ plan (they're one in the same, my friends), we will have all the problems, and more, of the current health care system - rigid rules, long waits and lack of choices - and we risk degrading the system’s great strengths and advantages, including the innovation and life-saving technology that make American medicine the most advanced in the world.
Sit down, Senator McBush.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 27:
This world is fu**ing crazy.
As long as they involve the mandatory insurance through private sources (= handout to insurance companies), Hillary and Obama's plans are farces.
Dr. Acula @ 29:
For the 46 millions who can't afford ANY insurance right now I'm sure they wont mind a wait.
Waiting a few days for care is better than no care.
The real tragedy here is that the right wing fascists have so demonized the idea of a single payer health care system in the minds of the American voters that it is dead in the water before it starts. There was a time in this country that all Hospitals were required by law to be non-profit. If we were to return to that and offer everyone a chance to buy into medicare at a fixed price I think the for profit health care insurance would die out except for the very rich. I am fine with those who wish to pay for special care to be able to and let the rest of us stop subsidizing the industry.
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
75% of the world population belongs to one cult or another.
Straight - Liar Express!
This gasoline tax break McCain and Hillary are talking about may be a carrot for voters, but how in the hell do they plan to make it happen this summer? It would have to go before congress, they can't just wave a magic wand and poof, it happens.
Or maybe I'm missing something.
A very interesting proposal. I myself make under $15,000, working and going to college. The tuition tax credit, for which I am grateful, I get back about $400 of the $2500 I pay in tuition (thanks to an inheritance from an aunt.) In other words, I pay no Income tax, just Social Security.
The last time I looked into health insurance ti was almost $400 a month, couldn't afford it then, now I make less money. A tax credit of $5000 won't help me because I don't pay any income tax now because of the Tuition Tax Credit, so I would get nothing. But then I went to public school, so my education is lacking. Perhaps someone can explain how a tax credit I won't get will help me buy insurance.
pissed off patricia @ 36:
Don't worry these are our "representatives". All we have to do is sit and wait and we all know they will be looking out for our best interests first.
Well, the Iranians can at least claim to have had a democracy, until the US staged a coup, reinstalled the hated shah(king) as dictator, leaving the religious fundamentalists the only one able to gather sufficient strength to overthrow him.
So, we have
US installs dictator in Iran(Persia then), ruining their fledgling democracy.
US supplies weapons of mass destruction, (Poison gas) to Saddam Hussein in his attack on Iran.
US shoots down an Iranian passenger liner during said war as well.
Not so sure I can fault Iranians for not making a civil war to overthrow the regime with that awesoem history with the spreaders of democracy
Let me see if I can predict what the next iteration of health care should be according to republicks. Deregulation and mergers of private insurers which will be claimed by republicks will be better for everyone due to economies of scale he he he. More denial of insurance due to pre-existing conditions, more paperwork, more lobbying by said now merged insurance co's for government protection, more out sourcing of medical records to sweat shops in Pakistan (remember how the last one went where the poor serf ended up blackmailing the hospital for pay by threatening to release the documents to the public), republicks claiming that insurance co's need immunity for said releases of private medical records, of course prices going up can't have that measly 25% annual growth now can we.
Did I leave anything out?
TORONTO (Reuters Life!) - Tune out, turn off and get away from addictive electronics for 24 hours on May 3 and enjoy the outdoors.
That's the message from organizers of the second annual global Shutdown Day who say using computers, televisions and electronic gadgets is having a negative impact on society.
Wow someone gets it.
pissed off patricia@36: So for me he quesion is, why is Hillary throwing the democratic congress under the bus by supporting McCrazy's fed tax gas holiday? I live in Minneapolis and we had a bridge go into the river last year. Does she even know that the fed gas tax pays for road and bridge repair or doesn't she even care?
Some how I lost t in question. Sorry..
diamondmc @ 42:
To prevent riots.
golden joe @ 31:
Yes, but small steps my friend. Insurance lobbies are hugely powerful, you can't eliminate them in one stroke. Second, pharma is a powerful lobby as well. They make back most of their R&D money in the US. The national system in Canada is why their drug costs are magnitudes lower than ours. They would also have to be controlled in some way. Third, to have universal healthcare be sustainable you need to control the illegal immigrants who will take advantage of the system, but not pay into it. Most of it is cost controls.
It isn't like we're inventing the wheel. Other countries have done it. All we need to do is see what works and what doesn't. Take pieces that work, and discard the ones that don't. We COULD have the best care in the world. That's how our system of government was created and, at the time, it was the best system of government in the world. Now, not so much, since it is so easily corrupted. I'm sure the Founding Fathers expected people to have much more character than they currently display, and work in the best interest of the people and not the Corporations.
What a complete con job. You have to have rocks for brains to believe this crap. "Competition" doesn't work in healthcare, we know that because that's what we have had for decades already. It doesn't work. We have the most expensive on the planet we have 47 million citizens without it, we have many who under insured and we are 37th in health indicators. Single payer national healthcare will bring down costs and get everyone insurance as well. Despite what McCain said recently its not called "we decided medical decisions for your family" national insurance its called single payer. Every other industrialized country on the damn planet has it for a reason.
36 pissed off patricia Says:
"This gasoline tax break McCain and Hillary are talking about may be a carrot for voters, but how in the hell do they plan to make it happen this summer? It would have to go before congress, they can’t just wave a magic wand and poof, it happens.
Or maybe I’m missing something."
I would say that even if Congress where to make it happen a gasoline tax holiday would do little good especially during the Summer months. Historically, gasoline prices have always been higher in the summer than at any other time due to increased traveling, hurricane threats, threats, attacks or shutdowns of various oil instillations in oil exporting countries, the switch over to other fuel mixtures, and the ever present global supply and demand issue.
McCain and Clinton talk a good game but realistically, taking a few cents off of the price of gasoline during a season that historically has the highest gasoline prices of any other season will do little good.
Has anyone else seen the YouTube of Mickey Kantor calling folks from Indiana "sh*t" and "white n*gg*rs"?
This is unbelievable!
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/5/2/02348/52393
Scroll down to the second video. It's Kantor, James Carville and George Stephanopolous.
diamondmc @ 42:
Since I heard on David Gregory's show last night that Sen. Clinton's campaign arranged for Rev Wright to be invited to the National Press Club to speak, nothing can surprise me.
L.A. Confidential @ 41:
but.....will it hurt?
You should see my dad freak out when his internet is down. It's like crack.
Outrageously expensive my ass. I bet their plans are still cheaper than the cost of the "Mission accomplished" war.
And what with the woman and the black guy standing behind him? Is the McCain campaign hoping that will help sway voters from Clinton and Obama? ("Gee, lets get a c**t and a n***r to pose with McCain, that'll convince the masses to vote for him!") Better yet, the black guy should wear a sign that says "I am not a Muslim. Vote McCain!!"
Joe O. @ 47:
Some very reputable economists call bs on both Senator Clinton's plan and McCain's.
It comes to a savings of about 30 dollars or so for the average family. And the reasons against it are many.
Fox. Doh! everything was fine until the final summation about Clinton's plan being an "entitlement" program. Fox and other broadcast media assign entitlement with DYFS "welfare" programs, yet on her recent interview on Fox she said differently. She wants taxpaying Americans to get the same health care that McCain has been and is "entitled" to.
Hi I live in the United States. Yeah, I realize like 50 million people aren't insured, but we can't go to socialized health care because we would become communists and start eating our children and growing weird facial hair. This is America, the only thing we like to federally subsidize here are war profiteers, pharmaceuticals, wall street, & corporate farmers who are determined to contribute to global warming. See, we are a center-right nation, it says so in the Bible and the Constitution. I'm gonna listen to people like Bill O'reilly, Sean Hannity, and Rush because anyone who is on TV or radio speaks the word of the lord, especially if they do well with the 50-79 yr old male demographic. These guys know what they're talking about, especially when it comes to exposing the homosexual/communist/islamo-fascist agenda, not like those left-wing loonies who think 9-11 was an inside job. I'm so happy to live in a country where we can really rally around the need to go against our own interests and use fear and hate to prop elitist candidates who skew resource distribution, but who make for really entertaining media coverage. God Bless America!
And do people really think the oil companys won't take advantage of this to increase their profits? Take away the 18 cent fed tax and oil companys will raise their price.
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
Not missing anything at all. Our representatives have government health care. You do not.
A question for McCrazy... Is he going to include congress and the president to the same plan he wants to give the rest of us? Just think of the taxes he could save. Hahahaha......................
Scott @ 46:
Exactly! That male surgeon was not given a follow-up question about other alternatives, just one about McCain's proposal. It would've been nice to hear a representative sample of surgeons' ideas for health care funding.
fuddled@57: We don't need no doctors telling us whats good for healthcare. McCrazy and the insurance companys know all they need to know.
As an Internest (between pts. right now) I can tell you I am ready for a single payer plan. This idea that Dr.s will not support it is not true. The majority of Drs see the mess this system is and are ready for a change.
Obama 2008
Eric
If these reich-wing politician hacks are so against universal health care, they should quit using theirs.
All I want to say is two things;
1. Hey Cliff!
2. I think we should start calling it the 'Straight Face Express'
I know I couldn't keep one reading McCains tripe, what a joke.
ericl @ 59:
Actually, there was a recent poll that showed a majority of docs supporting a universal health care system.
The Golux @ 28:
That name sounds a lot like Timothy McVeigh. If McVague gets elected, he's going to turn our country over to America hating militias.
I want the same health care that McCrazy has.
Boy, I can't imagine what it would be like to have to pay for medical procedures. Our Canadian system has some minor flaws like having to wait a period of time for procedures, not enough family physicians, etc..., but at least I don't have to worry about dying simply due to the fact a procedure might be too costly to afford. As far as I know the system prioritizes procedures so that those who are in urgent need receive treatment faster.
Between my wife and I we make between $100,000 and $150,000 per year. During 2007 we paid $22,660 in income taxes (about 17%) which include a health premium of $1,050. The more you make the more you pay, as it should be. Additionally, we also paid close to $4,000 (total) for our Canada Pension Plan (max benefits were a little over $10,000 this year). My wife also pays approximately $1,800 per year through work for our private health/dental coverage. So based only on the identifiable health coverage costs we pay about $238 per month. Of course a large part of our income taxes pay for health care as well but it's a small price to pay to know that sickness will never bankrupt us or anyone who doesn't even have a job. Also, if your health costs are high enough (i.e. greater than 3% of net income or $1,926 whichever is less) you get a 15% tax credit for the excess.
I also know that when a person tells a dentist that he/she does not have a private health/dental plan the dentists often if not always reduce the rate charged significantly. I've seen many people have to buy braces for one of their kids and the dentist allows them to pay the bill at say $50 per month.
It astounds me that this type of system does not exist in the U.S. There is no logical reason except that profits to corporations would dry up.
At first I thought McCain wouldn't be so bad, but now I'm wondering if he might outRegan W., or even outRegan Regan.
You got it D Boucher #65
The irony of the whole thing is you guys got a lot of our higher paying manufacturing jobs because the US Corporations didn't want to pay for employee medical down here.
When did McCain himself call Obama a elitist? I think it is just the media. I would like to see a source on that; that would be such red meat.
thanks
Teddy Phuf Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. ?????
#68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKbX-IMtSKA
"you need to control the illegal immigrants who will take advantage of the system, but not pay into it."
What a load of bollocks! Horse-shit! Baloney!
We are ALREADY paying RIGHT NOW for the health care of illegal immigrants. They are getting free health care RIGHT NOW and we are paying for it. Read that sign at the entrance to the emergency room.
Anyone who says that illegal immigrants WILL increase our health care costs are LYING because the costs are higher NOW.
The cost of providing care to illegal immigrants will go DOWN under any sort of reasonable plan because we will be able to regulate costs better. Right now people just show up at the emergency room and it costs us a FORTUNE!
When Americans visit other countries with socialized medicine, they are gracious enough to allow us to use their health facilities either for free or for a nominal fee. Why can't we be good international neighbors and return the favor?
Don't you people get it? It's not the health care industry or the insurance industry that are really blocking universal health care -- it's the defense industry.
They are so afraid that the government would cut into their fucking war profits to provide healthcare to the American people that I would lay down a bet right now that they are supplying most of the money to block it. Bush - Petreaus - McCain and the entire Repiglican party is in their pocket, along with the mainstream media.
Don Vito Corleone was a piker compared to these political and corporate thieves and criminals
Sherry Jackson-peel the courageous former IRS agent who gave us all the skinny on the illegal practices of the IRS explained that every child born in America is over $50,000.00 in debt (she is now sitting jail waiting for a bond to be posted- personally, I think Ron Paul should put his money where his mouth is and post her bond- this would prove to Americans that he will in fact dissolve the IRS and not just be another "play-back" politician).
My point is- McCain (or rather Mr. Cindy's money) being on the medical dole is ridiculous. Why should tax-payers pick up the tab for that nut-sack- especially since he is technically a Panamanian import? He doesn't know jack shit about foreign policy and he is completely clueless about economy issues- he can push the little button- that skill I will give him.
"And the monkey flips the switch".
Anyone who supports that tired old gas bag deserves him and his stepford wife Cindy is perfect fodder for the conspiracy theory-the world is being run by reptilians set! If these two douchebags get any closer to 1600 Pensylvania Avenue- I predict David Icke book sales will go through the roof!!!!
Not bad for a former failed soccer star who refused to put down his coke straw!
Fact #1 - The words 'tax cut' are very popular. Only those with more than 2 brain cells realize that someone has to pay for all the good and necessary things we have, and more revenue is needed for the things we wish we had. like healthcare for all, affordable education for all.
Countries like Japan and Germany - the #2 and #3 in the scheme of things (economic powers) behind the US, both of them practically destroyed by WW II, both of them minuscule in territory size and population compared to the US are head and shoulders above the US in health related matters. All of western Europe Canada and Australia rate above the US in maternal mortality rate. What does that tell you?
Medicare has the infrastructure in place to pay for medical care for retirees and disabled. They do a good job, in fact private companies wait on them to determine rates and cost before they pay whatever private insurance you have to pay whatever Medicare doesn't cover. My personal rates for the supplemental insurance are higher than Medicare Part B, and Medicare pays the higher amount of service. Medicare now provides drug coverage under Part D, which is screwy, but it does cover 95% of the price of drugs if the annual total exceeds $4,050, nothing to sneeze at for those requiring expensive medication.
Why can't Medicare be modified for Plan E which taxes people an amount sufficient to cover cost - certainly less than insurance companies charge in premiums - then require all health care providers to agree to terms, and Medicare Part B plus Part E will cover all basic necessities, those required to preserve life and health. Elective procedures will have to be paid for and obtained on an individual basis.
Currently private insurance consumes 31% of every 1$ spent on premiums. Switching this part to Medicare would reduce that cost to less than 5% due to necessity of personnel expansion to handle the increased workload.
That 31% is a lot of money when you consider that some pay as much as $1,500/mo.
I recommend http://www.pnhp.org/
Even though 'tax cuts' has a pleasant ring to it - very few people like to pay taxes - but tax cuts are actually more expensive than the current system which has resorted to higher fees and other charges to stay afloat not to mention elimination of some services.
It is high time to educate the neocon tax-cutters about reality
Mc Same and Hillarys so called health plans are just more of the same. Driving folks into the willing, greedy assed arms of for profit health care. I doubt America will ever have any meaningful universal health care plan. The aforementioned greedy assed pigs are too well entrenched. Just look at how Hillary herself caved into them and then took their money so willingly. The US health care system is too top heavy in administration and suits. God forbid those CEOS and the like would ever have to work for a sane wage. I believe the top guy in my Ontario, Canada city makes just less than 200k a year. Thats almost a reasonable wage. I keep having deja vus about Bill Frist and family stealing a billion or so off US government and that guy from Health South that stole 280 million. Nothing will change until the overt greed is cut from the system and kicked to the curb.
...dangerously expensive.... The old Luntz/Gingrich list of disturbing adjectives still part of GOP gameplan. Remember he forbade the GOP swine from ever speaking or writing about the dems/their policies without attaching an adjective from the Luntz list.
It was longish but I remember disturbing, dangerous and bizarre for some reason. Which apply nicely to the wife abusing geriatric.
I still fail to see how a tax credit allows someone to afford something that they otherwise can't afford. It really is a bizarre concept. Futhermore, a Health Saving Account may well be an advantage to those with health care; however it does little to those without health care. The benefits would be minimal at best.
I also don't see how a tax credit or Health Savings Account allow the patient to take control of their healthcare.
I'm sure I've missed it, but have any of the candidates said anything specific about the incredible profits that pharmaceutical companies and oil companies and-and-and, are making? Shouldn't these robbers be "trickling" something down by now? Maybe they could pay for a day or two of the war and we could get a start on healthcare reform with what would be saved.
Will employers be obligated to offer health insurance? Given the choice, do you think they will?
If so, this will only increase the number of people without health insurance.
#77
They have control now, just like they had control of their retirement before SS. Created tons and tons of poverty among the elderly
There are plenty of health care plans out there- the problem is that the gimme gimme lefties feels the government should foot the bill for everything. Sorry, i don't see why my tax dollars should pay for the health care of people i don't even know. if you want health care, find a job that offers coverage.
I'm only concerned with providing health coverage for me and my immediate family- everyone else can fend for themselves-so leave my tax dollars alone!
$81
Apparently toxic residue from the 'Me Generation'
Having health care coverage, for which you may or may not have to wait vs. no health care coverage at all.
Are reich-wingers really this stupid?
Besides, has anyone NOT waited to get health care? Since when is there an express lane at the doctor's office?
Steve M @ 81:
So, you must be outraged that politcians and the military get universal health care.
Number 81 has a wonderful solutions. "There are plenty of health care plans out there." Was this ever in question. The issue is the cost, something which apparently flew right over his head.
Another fine solution from the Republicans--too bad.
I would ask this wise and insightful person where anyone was asking for his tax money, certainly it is quite the sum; however that may be a little too deep for him to grasp.
ashton @ 77:
The families that cannot afford healthcare make so little money that they don't pay income taxes. It's a horrible message that we send to our children. We have created a system that punishes you for working hard. All these families work; yet, we tell them that their lives and well-being are unimportant. We have created a system where working is a humiliating thing. Workers are disposable; just like the plastic bags at the grocery store.
If we had universal health plan, employees would make more money because employers wouldn't have to spend money on expensive health care plans. Furthermore, this would translate to cheaper goods and products because corporations do not have to pay for health care coverage any longer, thus they can sell us good and products for much much less.
Steve M @ 81:
You are going to pay taxes no matter what. The government is NEVER going to give that money up. Now let me ask you this; do you want your money to go to some rich elitist so that he can move your neighborhood factory overseas, or do you want your tax dollars to stay in your community and help provide for the needs of your friends, family, and neighbors?
Steve M @81
Who asked the government to "foot the bill for everything"? Hard working and honest people are hurting and being raped by the Insurance Companies. You fake tough right wing cocksuckers just selectively hear and read what you want. Hey dumbass, are you aware of many of your tax dollars go to people you don't know outside of the U.S.?
Steve M,
Which carrier do you work for?
ronhohn @ 74:
A very good post, thank you!
Neocon tax-cutters have a narrow but essentially valid view of a reality, their own. Here are tax rates 1913-2008.
The tax changes of 1964 (under Democrats) cut high income taxes from 91 to 77 and then 70 percent. Reagan cut them to 50 percent. Clinton cut them to 39.6 per cent. Bush (a wealthy Republican) cut them from 39.6 to 35 per cent. Those are nominal rates, the upper income types hire tax attorneys to find the in and outs. They already know most of them because they hire lobbyists to write and get passed tax laws that work to their best advantage.
They don't worry about health care, they own the system.
It is past time to stop letting the neocons get away this 'tax cutting' and 'tax raising' rhetoric.
The great trend since the sixties has been the extinction of income taxes for the wealthy class and the extinction of the middle class. Nearly the end of the story.
Alice (formerly Hussein, live free of the Borg or die) @ 92:
Bad link....can you please repost it?
Mugsy @ 10:
You want details? Here you go, THE MCVAIN HEALTHCARE PLAN:
Don't get sick. Ever!
McCain has spent this week doing his health care promotion week. What makes me furious, is all the Doctors etc. who appeared with McCain. He was at a Lab, Children's Hospital of Miami, etc. All these professionals are supplying false endorsements of his health plan. That's down right "criminal"! This country is so full of morons and idiots who gave us Bush/Cheney, they will take these appearances as proof he has the better plan.
Mugsy @ 10:
And McCain Stream Media attacked Kerry for his "I have a plan" statements.
Steve M @ 82:
I'd like to find a way to fund the local fire department with only my tax dollars and not yours, then listen to you cry when your house burns down and my fire department didn't come to your rescue. Hey, I don't know you, pal! Why should my tax dollars pay for your emergencies? Sheesh! Gimme, gimme, gimme...
In all seriousness, your post is so mean-spirited and selfish, I think is has to be a joke. Right? You were joking. Whew!
Left&Left @ 90:
Better watch it or Steve will beat you about the head and shoulders with his boot straps.
Salt of the earth, this guy. I wish I could be more like him. But since I give two shits about people around me, including those that I may never meet (though I bump into "them" every day on the street, in restaurants, at the grocery store, on the bus, at work....) well, I can't ever be as tough as Steve.
LIAR! doesn't even touch on the depth of McPains uselessness, the guy is a shill, a pandering scumbag. Anyone who thinks this guy has any merit, is not only blind but a complete moron. Wake Up america Mcpain is the second biggest loser in the country behind the IDIOT PRESIDENT.
TRULY PATHETIC and if you support him you are more pathetic than him. LOSERS ALL OF THEM!
McCain said:
"I believe the key to real reform is to restore control over our health care system to the patients themselves."
Wrong. Before I had my brain tumour surgery I had no idea what to do and was in a state of panic, therefore I was the last person to be in "control" of the situation. After surgery I was in need of constant care by professionals. You need experts in control in a desperate situation. People who put health care first and profit second, as we do in Canada.
As for research, medical innovations still go on at universities here despite what the propagandists tell you. It was a Canadian who discovered insulin...
"I’m only concerned with providing health coverage for me and my immediate family"
Steve M has no idea that his premiums are ALREADY being used to subsidize hospitals for treating indigent patients. Except he is PAYING EVEN MORE because the insurance companies are scooping a healthy percentage profit from his premiums which are then being used to cover hospital costs.
Can you see that under the current system, the insurance companies are profiting from uninsured patients?
Follow the money closely! Be outraged! This mess is even worse than you think it is!
Steve M sounds a lot like that troll Chris we had running around here a few weeks ago.
It's nice to have people like Steve M making inane Republican talking points, because he provides a convenient mechanism to refute his positions. I think he should post more stupid stuff.
There are plenty of health care plans out there- the problem is that the gimme gimme lefties feels the government should foot the bill for everything. Sorry, i don’t see why my tax dollars should pay for the health care of people i don’t even know. if you want health care, find a job that offers coverage.
I’m only concerned with providing health coverage for me and my immediate family- everyone else can fend for themselves-so leave my tax dollars alone!
What all you leftwinghippietreehuggers don't know is that you are one mugging by a black person away from being a realist conservative!! Universal healthcare is a slippery slope, my friends. Now stay tuned for these words from our corporate masters. Buy their gruel, my friends, its good ENOUGH for you. Yes, my friends, buy, consume, buy, its good enough for YOU...../snark
My only question for Steve is, where does he find time to post messages on websites while, presumably, at his place of employment. Must not work very hard. Stop wasting your companies time, Steve!
Correction: COMPANY'S time, Steve!!
83 ronhohn Says: $81
Apparently toxic residue from the ‘Me Generation’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xZOrWK6d4g
Any 'plan' that requires the individual to manage their own portfolio must take into account several factors that, together, make the plan unworkable except as a money pot for portfolio companies:
1: I must first off have enough money to put into the plan.
2: I must have enough time _EVERY DAY_ to monitor my plan's performance (hours)
3: The entities to whom I give my plan's funds must disclose accurately and completely how they will use that money, how I will benefit from that use, and share the costs when they fail to perform (yeah, right!)
4: the entities to whom I will pay that money when I need their services must also be open and beholden to me for their use of my money, and must aid my search for the best provider for my resources and needs.
You really think any one of these conditions is realistic? I have a bridge for you if you do.
And this effort is needed for every such plan. Bu$h's SS plans were the same. Medicare today is the same. 401K's are the same. Even just trying to deal with the IRS is the same - if you are not an expert at investing, if you have to do something other than manage your investments for income, you are royally screwed.
So proposing individual accounts, and leaving it at that, is the worst possible solution to our healthcare problem.
One thing I keep hearing from the american media is that universal health care will bankrupt the country, like it has Canada. The truth is that Canada is actually running with a surplus. Americans are being lied to. When someone like billy orielly says things like "Canada is in the shitter and its because of socialized medicine" nobody questions the veracity of it. Why is that? These "folks" are known liars.
Fran Taylor @ 72:
Now Fran, I wasn't saying that illegal immigrants would increase the cost, I was attempting to say, albeit poorly, that part of controlling the cost also requires getting a handle on illegal immigration. The reality is that you can't stop all illegal immigration, but to have the universal system be self-sustaining, you have to a certain percentage of people paying into it. Unfortunately, people receiving services, but not paying for them is essentially lost (not wasted) money.
You're right in that with a competant universal care system the costs overall would go down, however, you cannot argue that the higher the percentage of people paying into the system the lower the costs for everyone footing the bill. Splitting a bill of $1000 between 10 people when only 5 are paying means those 5 pay $200 each. Split the same $1k over 8 people, and
$125/person will cover the same 10 people. That is what I was trying to say. By no means should anyone ever be denied treatment, I was simply speaking on cost and how to control it since EXPENSE is such a huge stumbling block for the Republicans.
It is the duty of the federal government to protect its citizens and increasing the defense department budget is not the only way to accomplish that.
Let's see. $.184 * 20 = $3.68 If they keep that up, after about 6793 weeks I can go buy that $25,000 Lund I been lookin at, and pay cash for it. Damn, you knock 18.4 cents off the cost of a gallon of gas and it gets damned near free!!!!
Looks like Elizabeth Edwards rattled McCrazies cage good and proper!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/opinion/02krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinio...
And @ 109:
A business can avoid paying payroll taxes, by hiring an undocumented worker. A business can also avoid paying taxes, by cooking the books. The IRS has a heck of a time collecting taxes from a business. The people not paying their fair share of taxes are not undocumented workers; they are business owners. The way around this is to charge a business owners property taxes as opposed to payroll or income taxes.
Jeez, McCain is one thing, but the doctor and girl interviewed afterwards? What's the matter with these zombie...er, people?
"He wants to promote competition between insurance companies". Like that isn't already happening....
Dr. Biitter Hussein (Mission Accomplished) Matt @ 93:
You are right, I don't know why that is. I copied the post and saved it to text before submitting it and the link looks good.
Here it is without submerging it:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
You may have to copy and paste.
"It is the duty of the federal government to protect its citizens "
Huh? I don't see that in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights. I see stuff like 'All Men Are Created Equal', but I don't see anything that says that foreigners are lesser human beings than citizens.
If the system were paid for with taxes, then the illegal aliens WOULD be contributing to it, because the feds take taxes out of everyone's pay, whether they are illegal or not. The big difference between illegal aliens and the rest of us is that we get tax refunds and illegals don't, so they are actually paying too much tax.
If you have an immigration agenda, please tell us what it is instead of hiding behind phony health care arguments.
I'd add my two cents, but you all have covered my points admirably.
All I can add is to say that reading that letter reminds me of reading transcripts of the Bill O'Reilly show. I later want to stab him in the eye, but since I cannot, I end up yelling at the computer screen impotently in rage.
Hmm, you think McCain's limp health care plan would cure impotent rage? Naw, probably not.
Sen McCain: "What does "giving control back to the patients" mean?
It might be the most disingenuous phrase of the campaign so far. McCain's plan leaves control firmly in the hands of the big insurers and pharmaceuticals and the AMA. They all keep raking in billions while we're bled like sacrificial lambs and fed expensive pills so that they can all live in gated communities, summer in the Hamptons, winter in the Caribbean and make their Bentley payments.
Health care is a human right, goddammit. Someone in this campaign has to come out and say it. For a government to allow any of its citizens to do without decent health care is reprehensible and unacceptable.
Bananaphone @ 116:
Well, Pfizer will probably come out with a pill for it and advertise it endlessly on Fox News and CNN. :)
Steve M @ 82:
Yeah, well fuck you and build your own roads, then. Don't drive on the ones the government builds.
And don't you even think about using the Court system if someone screws you, deal with it!
I sure hope your family never has a health care crisis that puts them in bankruptcy.
You people are all clueless. People don't really place much value on healthcare. No one places any value whatsoever on preventive healthcare services that would prevent expensive problems. They want to spend their money on something else. Then when they have a healthcare crisis they want to be rescued but they want someone else to pay for it. It's simple. We must decide, as a society, what we are willing to spend on healthcare. After we decide what we are willing to spend we have to decide how we are going to spend it. We don't have enough money to cover everything for everyone, so difficult choices will have to be made. Oregon medicaid had a solution for this. They listed every medical procedure known to man and then ranked them on effectiveness versus cost. The very effective procedures that cost the least were high on the list, the very expensive procedures of dubious effectiveness were at the bottom of the list. You simply draw a line where the money runs out, things above the line are covered and things below the line are not. Bill Clinton would not give them waiver to do this. Why not? Because the first time a cute little girl needed a transplant that was her only chance but would probably be futile was denied the expensive futile care the newsmedia folks would plaster her picture all over our TVs, newspapers and magazines with the Headline "Heartless politicians deny this precious child her only chance to live!!" He was too smart to get caught in this game of gotcha. That's why the discussion of what we can spend and how we're going to spend it must be open, and honest. If you try to do what Hillary did in Bill's first term--conduct secret deliberations and then foist a mandate on the general public--everyone feels like they are being screwed to the benefit of someone else. If these deliberations and decisions were honestly and openly made everyone would understand that the cute little girl didn't have a chance no matter what we did and the best thing for her was relatively inexpensive hospice care and maybe a trip to disney world while she was still able to enjoy it. You can optimize the cost, the quality or the quantity but not all three at the same time, something has to give and the best thing would be to eliminate futile but expensive diagnostic and treatment options.
Login or Register to post comments.