60 Minutes: What Really Happened To Pat Tillman?
By Bill W. Sunday May 04, 2008 8:45am
On Sunday's 60 Minutes, Katie Couric explored the unanswered questions that still surround Pat Tillman's death more than 4 years after he was killed in a friendly-fire incident in Afghanistan.
Download | play 
Download | play Full report on the 60 Min website.
One part that stands out is when Couric asks Pete Geren, the new Secretary of the Army, about eyewitness statements that had been altered to falsely show that Tillman had been engaged with the enemy at the time of his death. He replied, "Well, that's one of the questions that we will never completely answer." That's a telling statement because the Bush administration has exerted executive privilege over "certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting" because they claim they would "implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests." Last August, when pressed directly about it, President Bush avoided making any promise to ever come clean about what really happened.
While Pat Tillman's mother Mary continues to press for the truth that remains hidden from her family and the public, which she has chronicled in her just-released book, Boots on the Ground by Dusk: My Tribute to Pat Tillman, his widow, Marie, would like people to focus more on Pat's life, not his death, and has worked behind the scenes helping to ensure that "Pat's legacy lives on through education and helping others effect social change" through The Pat Tillman Foundation and through the yearly Pat's Run, which continues to grow as it drew thousands over the past few weeks at the 4th annual event in Tempe and San Jose (video).
The Pat Tillman story is a complicated one that can waveringly or even simultaneously bring about the strongest feelings of pride in one's country and shame in its government. This much is true: No man ever sacrificed more for his country than Pat Tillman did, and no cover-up could ever cover that up.
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"No man ever sacrificed more for his country than Pat Tillman did".
Um, well that is perhaps a little over the top. I think plenty have- and continue to- sacrifice as much as Pat Tillman did. Nevertheless, the story is as inspiring as it is absolutely disgraceful.
I couldna watch it
Due to the National Tragedy
That goes by the name
katie couric.
I wonder what terrible facts the Bush administration is hiding in this case ?
Screwing over "real American heroes" will not play well in Peoria.
That is...until they are forced to admit they're role at which point we will no doubt learn that Tillman was a gay Muslim pedophile.
Who knew ?
He was killed by his own troops. The only question is whether it was an honest accident in the fog of war, or another Cheney inspired hit job (like all his suicidal hookers e.g.) to take out a high profile spokesman who wanted to tell Americans the truth.
Enjoy.
I find it surprising that the White House argues that because they are involved in his death and cover up, that they must continue the cover up. Then even more surprising that this hasn't turned into a real stink for the White House.
But I guess in a cesspool, no particular turd stand out.
His last words should be immortalized.
"Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."
The World is a Ghetto
Weaseldog @ 6:
Good analogy ... Where's the Flush Handle?
What happened?
Look,-the war(s) are a lie. He was yet another poor soul duped into believing he was serving some greater good....they are serving fat cats who's job it is to make money off the blood of the uniformed.
Regarding Tillman's death, the Pentagon only had pat answers.
"No man ever sacrificed more for his country than Pat Tillman did..."
Remember Pat Tillman made the choice not only to die for his country but to KILL for his country.
How many innocent people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since 9/11?
Those who dedicate their lives to non-violent solutions are the ones we should be honoring. Until we change our perspective on what is noble and truthful we will continue to go down the road of war and violence.
Get your official Pat Tillman "Proud to Die for Your Shitty Gas Mileage" cards here:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/2006/05/fun-with-suvs.html
They go great just inside the fuel doors of SUVs.
Today I had an interesting conversation with two Thai Doctors and a Nurse in the Bar of the PornPing Hotel here in Chiang-Mai. They all wanted to know if Bush would leave office when the voting was complete or whether (I thought) he would stage another False Flag Attack on US soil to cause military rule.
I thought this was very interesting coming from intellectuals in a country other than the US.
One of the doctors had just come back from a vacation in Hawaii and California and said that there were people in the US that seem to think this.
You best turn off your TV's people and start DOING SOMETHING.
I don't know what happened but I do know the military tried to cover it up and continues to do so, so that leads us all to imagine the unimaginable. If the truth is any less than that, why are they continuing to allow it to be a mystery?
There is no mystery about Tillman's death. It was a cover up, plain and simple. Another stain on Bush's terrible legacy, and of course Ours.
We must have state secrets to protect the
Bush Admingovernment.Behold, Bushies legacy and ain’t he proud. Only a psychopathic liar would be proud of their lies. Sickening I tell you.
Maybe in 50 or so years the very reasons that this administration gave that lead to Pat Tillman's enlistment and deployment to Afghanistan will be shown to be on big huge false flag operation. I should say I hope that the truth will finally be uncovered because the rewriting of history has begun and is in full steam ahead.
echo Says: That is…until they are forced to admit they’re role at which point we will no doubt learn that Tillman was a gay Muslim pedophile.
No need for that - he was an avowed atheist. SO much worse.
Maybe what got him killed was one too many remark not extolling the virtue of the great and terrible Oz. Those Ozites have a very short fuse and a violent temperament I am told.
No man ever sacrificed more for his country than Pat Tillman did
How so? Back that statement up please.
Who's Pat Tillman? If he wasn't on American Idol, I don't care!
ysbaddaden @ 3:
amen...can't watch her, no way no how
marko @ 22:
It's a statement. One of those things that you can not answer with a yes or a no.
Where's the finality we are searching for?
NOWHERE
The 60 minutes piece was a bit unsettling in that it didn't really come off as a tear-jerker sympathy bit, nor did it lay blame on the administration. Seemed to be another fluff piece that steered clear of indicting Rumsfeld and the higher-ups. Katie sat there with a blank stench-mug asking stupid questions like, "How did this make you feel?" Or, "What would Pat have thought of the spectacle made of his remembrance services?"
Is anyone surprised that CBS didn't dig into the why of the story? Because the "why" is another thread leading directly to Karl Rove and his gang of propogandists.
Shame of CBS for wasting the opportunity to shed light on this evil bunch.
roger @ 12:
Roger that, Roger! Spot on! But, see we are not supposed to talk about that type of reality in this country, especially whe it comes to our military. Now, join me and the rest of my fellow Americans in this chorus... "He died with his boots on!"
From what I understand, several members of Tillman's group were overtly religious. And also, Tilman stated his displeasure about the Iraq War. I can't believe it's been four years. The Bush years seem like a horrible surreal nightmare.
brithumeistheantichrist @ 26:
The processing and deployment of information (sometimes misidentified as "knowledge") is the only thing the media does well.
P.D. @ 28:
We're entering a dark period of history that isn't going away for while.
roger @ 12:
They both should be honored. You and I are standing on the shoulders of both the warriors and the peacemakers.
Well, at least CBS ran with this story. Meanwhile, we are subjected with endless coverage of Wright, Hillary, and Obama. How much does Buchanan make? Jesus, he is on MSNBC constantly! Like I want to hear his opinion. I guess after the primary tomorrow will get some closure. Yeah, right!
I feel bad for Pat Tillman and his mother because his mother will never know all of the facts surrounding her son's death and the Bush Administration will make sure of that. Whatever the Bush Administration's involvement, you can be sure that those facts will be buried never to see the light of day again.
I think the Bush Administration was attempting to make Pat Tillman, the handsome football star that gave up everything for their cause into something like a modern day, American version of Achilles or Hercules. He was to be the American "face" of what they see as a worldwide glorious, noble pursuit. When the facts started to leak out about the actual cause of Tillman's death and the cover up was seen the Bush Administration dropped Pat Tillman like an old shoe because the image they wanted him to represent to the world was shattered. He was used and thrown away, just like everyone else when the Bush Administration saw him as no longer being useful.
DOW down 100 points.
roger @ 12:
You have a point. However, things are no so easily summed up. Pat like many of his soldier buddies were manipulated and deeply deceived into believing a horrible lie- add fanatical Muslim extremist suicide bombers and we have a very ugly tragic mess.
Most soldiers go into service because there is history within their family and/or close friends- and they feel they are committing their duty in fighting for freedoms which do not exist- however they believe freedom is what they are in fact fighting for.
This is quite noble up to the point they realize they have been duped.
Soldiers are not prescient people and were not able to see the Bullshit of 9/11 as it was happening- so naturally they waited to be told what occurred.
What I gather for all the interviews and articles is that Pat figured things out only after he actually toured there- he was killed then turned into an American Hero martyr- which is NOT the first time this has happened- but it is the first time the negative reaction to this disgusting publicity stunt was thrown into the face of the American Public.
Katie Couric is an opportunistic bitch making a desperate grab for ratings by supporting the expose of the ugly truth- where was this barbie doll c*nt when this story broke the first time?
Now that is the question people should be asking as it speaking volumes as to the real mass deception being perpetrated on a gullible American public.
The upside is- Americans are waking up to a horrible sham. Lets not loose focus by besmirching Pat Tillman's name simply because he was gullible enough to whipped up into a patriotic frenzy to defend a government actions by world leaders who could not give two shits to Sunday about him and his family and any of us for that matter.
Mr. Tillman was a good hearted man stupid enough to believe authorities. And Katie Couric is a pathetic automaton who has lost all credibility- if she had any to begin with!
Further, in-depth reportage on Pat Tillman by Stan Goff-- "The Tillman Files":
www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/index.shtml#tillman
One of the best road maps to what happened to date.
--mf
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
my words exactly!
P.D. @ 34:
Just another day of profit taking and setting up the next pump and dump.
Well I can't fritter the rest of my life away.
I'll check in later.
What in the fucking hell does that mean ?
Was Tillman invading Afghanistan all by himself ?
Was he given the task of sniping Heads of State ?
What a fucking bunch of bullshit in typical Chimpy and Co fashion ................
roger @ 12:
Extremely well said. Americans and liberals in particular would do well to heed what Roger has said. Pat Tillman did not fight for his country. He ended up. like I did in Vietnam, trying to justify the lies that he was given by his government. Tillman began to question U.S. foreign policy by reading Noam Chomsky. Perhaps this is what may have led to his death. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that the U.S. military wanted to silence Tillman because he perhaps began to realize that the U.S. had no right invading Iraq and Afghanistan, countries which never posed any remote threat at all to anyone in these United States. The last thing that the military desires to have happen is for the rank and file, as well as the officer corps, to question the government.
It is always instructional to recall the closing lines of Bertolt Brecht's poem, General, Your Tank Is a Powerful Vehicle:
General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think.
That is the one thing that the military is most terrified of, that its members would have the audacity to think for themselves by saying NO to war. The best way to halt a war is to have it happen from within.
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
Fritter? Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 14:
Hard to say, really. Given that he's been quietly moving his pawns into place with laws like 109-364 which gives him all the incentive he needs to send the Texas national guard into Pennsylvania at his whim or the Executive order (Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq ) which allows him to confiscate property and assets on his own whim or the legal opinions by John Yoo that allow him to suspend Habeas Corpus, or the opinion by Mr. Scalia of the Supreme Court that says torture is only illegal if it's used as punishment not in the extraction of information, or all of the legal maneuvering to prevent courts from hearing cases involving terrorists or suspected terrorists... it shouldn't be that difficult to see the growing pattern of consolidation of all power in the executive branch.
Why bother consolidating that power only to lose it in a legal election? (Which, I might add, the Republicans know they're going to lose). When you can just fake a terror attack and suspend elections indefinitely? Hell, what's to stop them from letting the election occur and then just assassinating whoever wins (Except John McSame of course) and using THAT as a pretext to suspend Constitutional government. It's not as though this sort of thing hasn't happened before. It's not as though the Government hasn't discussed plans like this before. Almost every President since it's inception has opposed the 22nd Amendment since it's inception and since Bush has no problem crossing out whatever sections of the Constitution he doesn't like why would getting out his red pen there phase him? If he really wanted to he could just declare anyone who voted Democrat to be a terrorist and he'd get away with it. Because the wingnuts who follow Coulter would support him, he'd have control over around 50% of the military to back him up and no court in the land has the jurisdiction to stop him because it's all classified information. You can't fight against classified information in open court and if you're in a closed court the gov can say and do essentially anything they want. You're in their ballpark playing by their rules... and of course that's assuming you'd ever really get a court date. People have been held as material witnesses in the GWOT for five years without any rights. Terrorist or not, criminal or not Jose Padilla was an American citizen and his rights were violated without care or consequence. If his can be yours can be too.
Bush may very well see it as a simple 'Continuity of Government' plan completely within his power to do and because our Congress is too cowardly and stupid to take any real action he'll get away with it until the Pentagon makes a simple decision: Stick with Bush or Stick with the Constitution. If the Pentagon sides with Bush, Civil War Part II will begin. If the Pentagon sides with the Constitution Civil War Part II would still begin but it would be a lot shorter.
So you see, the future isn't entirely clear. Bush could decide he is the supreme emperor of the United States and not want to leave. Or he could be entirely fed up with this country and it's petulant serfs who don't want to do what he says and could be ready to head off to his Paraguayan estate.
Guess we'll find out in November.
roger @ 12:
i love your eloquent perfectly crafted post!! thank you!!
Katie Couric didn't explore shit in this interview. When Pete Geren brazenly said that there are questions that will never be answered, Couric didn't even have the journalistic balls to ask why not.
Johnny2Bad @ 31:
That's the one thing that bugs me about the 'peace at all costs' types. Sorry fellas, Humankind is a warlike species. There will always be war. People will always die in war. You don't get to have peace without war because the guys who start it aren't going to take no for an answer. You can try standing in front of the man with the gun and demanding peace right up until the point where pulls the trigger. Then you get war whether you want it or not.
The Iraq conflict however, doesn't fit into that mold. It was a war of choice plain and simple.
All that being said, wars should not be started for bullshit reasons. Fighting Nazi expansion was a just cause. Counterattacking against the Japanese was a just cause ( not so sure about Hiroshima and Nagasaki though ). Fighting to free ourselves from British rule and the excesses of the King was a just cause. Filling Dick Cheney's stock portfolio is not. Getting George W. Bush re-elected is not. Keeping neo-con douchebags in power is not. Allowing Exxon to make $9 billion in a single quarter is not. I supported the Afghanistan conflict. I do not, not have I ever supported the Iraq war. We could have been done and victorious in the first, if not for the second. Now the Taliban is taking back over and Al Qaeda is in resurgence so all the lives and money lost in both wars were wasted.
This Pat Tillman thing is a travesty but it is a travesty among hundreds of them committed by the Bushies. That, I think, is their main strategy to avoid culpability. How can you prosecute them for all of their crimes if you can't even keep track of them all? It's like Carpet Bombing the Constitution with evil.
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
It has occurred to me that we're entering a new "dark age."
not that many will read this but thier have been many heros , one ,or rather two i have in mind were in the korean war in the early dark days when our young boys were sent into korea with no tank support little ammunition and some even had to wear thier dress shoes because they had been garrison troops in japan and general mac had been to busy sticking his nose up the japs ass playing the emperor when the north koreans attacked the south, anyway the boys were sent into korea with no armor ,the north koreans had tanks , we had nothing to stop them but grunts with guts and a bayonet, anyway a company of dog faces had been delaying the north koreans buying time for reinforcements from the states fighting a rear guard action , in this company one man was wounded so badly and knowing thier was no place to be saved by medics he asked the sargent leading the company to set up a fifty caliber machine gun at a stragic point so his fellow soldiers could gain time in thier retreat , knowing the man was sure to be dead in the next few hours he agreed , the machine gun was set up and his friends said goodby , as they moved out one of the guys refused to leave , the sgt asked why he was refuseing an order to leave, the kid said i cant sarg hes my buddy , so he sat down alongside the wounded boy and the company moved out, most had tears in thier eyes , later the sound of the machinegun and a rifel were heard fireing furiously and in a half an hour thier was only silence behind them now thats what i call heros and screw any who call korea a police action we dont take a backseat to any be it ww2 vietnam or what have you!!!! pat tillman was a tragic thing but how many would stay behind for a buddy!
marko @ 22:
It just says no man sacrificed "more." It does not say "as much." As there is really no way to quantify "more" on all levels in such a situation, proof would be futile.
wijg @ 45:
I also found her lack of digging disconcerting when RIGHT AFTER IT WAS CONFIRMED THAT STATEMENTS BY THE WITNESS SOLDIERS HAD BEEN TAMPERED WITH AND EDITED TO SUPPORT THE INITIAL STORY, he said there were mistakes, but "there was no intent to deceive."
WTF does that mean? Someone accidentally fell on a computer keyboard and like the monkey finally typing War and Peave the witness statements were magically changed?
Steve @ 2:
I have to agree. Really not an appropriate statement at all.
The story was kind of bullshit because it just barely scratched the surface and gave really no new information. If should be pretty easy to find out who wrote the reports on the Tillman affair. Simple question. Who wrote the report and who gave the eye witness accounts? If the eyewitness accounts were doctored then whoever wrote the report must have doctored the eyewitness accounts.... or the author should at least be responsible for the content of their own report.... the report was written not long ago, so it should be pretty straight foward...
If the report was written or edited by the Whitehouse and they are claiming executive privledge than that is another thing... and that is the real story.... and if this is the case, then CBS and sudo-journalist Katie Couric should have focused her report on that... why would the Whitehouse claim executive privledge on this??? why was the Whitehouse even involved? Was this just another example of the Bush adminstration lying to the public and selling the war? Those would have been much more important questions to address in the 60 minutes piece..
This report COMPLETEY DEBUNKS the MYTH that PAT TILLMAN was KILLED on PURPOSE!
GREAT REPORTING KATIE!
bob @ 47:
It has occurred to me that we're entering a new "dark age."
Yeah, I can no longer afford my electric bills either.
Every person who serves in this atrocious war is as dedicated and patriotic as Tillman.
There need not be any conspiracy to kill Pat Tillman.
Consider that the White House was informed of Tillman's death and chose to use it as a flag-waving moment, despite indications that this could be a friendly-fire incident.
Thus, the simple act of covering their asses and hiding the documents that show the Bush Administration knew Tillman was killed by his own men - men who were improperly trained and ill-suited to the task (I'm thinking of the report that says one of the guys had the wrong prescription in his glasses, but he's on a crew-served squad gun) ... becomes much greater.
They can't admit they knew without having to explain why they went ahead with their 'hero's death' story. It's the constant lying about little things that takes these corrupt clowns to record-breaking levels.
But who needs to lie when you have Katie Couric? Did anyone really expect serious journalism from the woman who brought us the fawning marketplace victory tour with General Petraeus, the 'some say' interview of John & Elizabeth Edwards, or the 'scary smart' hagiography of Condi Rice?
I missed that 60 Minutes program, so I wonder if any mention was made of Tillman's planned meeting with war critic Noam Chomsky and what the two might have been planning. If Tillman was murdered (and I'm sure he was) he obviously made the fatal mistake of openly criticizing the war. You can't have a national sports figure dissing the Moron's pet project and expect no reaction from an administration that kills people like chickens in a poultry processing plant.
Couric? Just another in the long line of overpaid, pudding-faced, cue card readers without whom television would be forced to hire real talent.
The government lies and the MSM dutifully reports it as fact. The lies will stop when either the voters demand the truth and refuse to support the politicians who offer less, or the government leaders no longer have a need to conceal the truth and assert it with impunity because no one is left to challenge them.
Sorry, but I never have bought the conspiracytheory that the Bush Admin had him killed. Why, because he was a sports hero? We're not talking about JohN Elway or Joe Montana here. Tillman was an average NFL player on a mediocre team in a very small TV market. He didnt have the clout most claim he did.
Besides, if being a "nationally known loud mouth" in terms of hating the Bush administration was all it took, Markos Moulitsas would have found himself along side Jimmy Hoffa quite awhile ago....
I admit I didn't know of Pat Tillman 'till after his death. But looking at his picture it just seemed to scream that he should've gone into movies. He really looked like a Flash Gordon, unlike the dweeb playing him now on cable.
Sneer @ 55:
The veracity of this statement is quite dubious. Tillman may have been killed because his patriotism may have been transformed to dissent. Contrast this with the oxymoronic sentence that "Every person who serves in this atrocious war is as dedicated and patriotic as Tillman." Dedicated to doing what, killing innocent Iraqi and Afghan people? It makes no sense whatsoever to claim that the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who are mindlessly obeying their orders are to be equated with Pat Tillman, since Tillman had the courage to question U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East [as evidenced by his desire to seek out Noam Chomsky], which may have been the reason why Tillman was taken out by his own troops in Afghanistan. This country needs more people like Pat Tillman, Lt. Ehren Watada, Camilo Mejia, Kevin Benderman, et al, who are willing to challenge the military and the policy of their government instead of soldiers who are going to blindly obey whatever the military tells them to do.
If you believe the WH is unstained in blood money, then ask yourself why after 55 years are they still withholding 1000 documents concerning the assination of JFK. Ted Kennedy is a blight on family virtues.
I guarantee the White House, most likely Karl Rove, put the wheels in motion that ended in Tillman's death. He was heavily propagandized when he quit the NFL to join the Army, and as such he would have been assured a lot of media attention upon his return. This is where he got himself into trouble.
The Bush administration had to have known that Tillman was vehemently anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war, and anti-Imperialism in general. They would have known that he was planning on meeting with Noam Chomsky upon his return to the states, and they would have known that he was planning on joining the anti-war movement and campaigning for John Kerry when he returned.
They could not afford to have that happen. It took every bit of media smokescreening they could muster to steal the 2004 election as it was, with Kerry sandbagging his way to an almost convincing defeat, however if Tillman had come back and gone on a media tour denouncing Bush and the war in Iraq as illegal he could easily have opened enough voter's eyes to have had a measureable impact on the election.
Also, the things he could have said would have forced the corporate media to address those issues, as well, and as we all know they'd just as soon not even discuss their own culpability in this mess. This is most likely why the media let the Tillman assassination go without ever really questioning the incident. Notice how the only acceptable questions regarding Tillman's death start from immediately after the fact? They don't say "Could Tillman have been targeted for his anti-war, anti-Bush administration views?" They always just make it seem like the only wrong committed here was that they tried to make it look like his death was legit, without mentioning that it was most likely a planned hit.
Fuck these fascist thugs. I can't wait until the streets are red with fascist blood.
Death Star @ 62:
They made an ass of JFK?
marko @ 22:
What more is there to offer than his life?
That said, it saddens me to say he sacrificed it for Oil and wealth, not our country's own good.
malcontent @ 63:
I share your sentiments. Say a prayer for these depraved reptiles, for compassion aims surer than any AK-47.
P.D. @ 28:
And who says they're over any time soon?
Murder has a funny way of making people hush up.
I saw the entire segment. Mrs. Tillman is a brave lady. I hope she doesn't get smeared, swiftboated and audited by the IRS courtesy of The Criminal Bush Regime.
Steve @ 2:
I'd agree. Clark Gable enlisted, putting aside his movie career to be a gunner in a bomber. David Niven left his comfortable existence as an actor in Hollywood and volunteered to become a commando for his native Brittain in the same war. Tilman's sacrifice and patriotism are more noticed because these days, sacrificing is no longer in vogue.
He says "We will never answer that question" and "There was no intent to deceive", and that worthless idiot Couric doesn't call him on his bullshit!
It's no wonder her ratings suck. SHE sucks.
A cover up of a cover up of a cover up?
Ain't Postmodernism wonderful!
me @ 71:
How ya think katie got the job?
ysbaddaden @ 73:
Yeah, I should have thought of that. Sorry.
John @ 70:
The ultimate sacrifice is one's life, and no one can pay a price higher than that. David Niven and Clark Gable sacrificed much much less than any of the soldiers who have been killed in any war for any country for whatever the reason(s). It's not even close.
[deleted--Not on this website. We do not allow the advocation or condoning of violence against anyone. Troll elsewhere]
Shadowgm @ 56:
Don't forget the "you guys seem--like--REALLY bitter" interview with Plame & Wilson....
Ruthless People @ 69:
Since Bush & McBush being from Arizona, tried to use Tillman's death for political gain, it would not only be ironic, but very fitting if Pat Tillman’s mother Mary & his widow Marie & maybe some of the rangers serving w/Tillman did a commercial endorsing Obama for president & slamming McBush for his shameful use of Tillman's death for political gain.
If this were to happen, the karma would be quite enjoyable ...
ysbaddaden @ 3:
Katie Couric is fine. It's you MR. Ysbaddaden that's the problem.
Okay, I'll throw my two cents in for what it's worth. First of all Couric's fucking half grin makes me want to puke! This whole piece is presented in a deceptive manner. We're talking about a fucking crime here- treason and murder. A man is dead and as if that's not bad enough, he was shit on by the country he gave his life for. OUR FUCKING COUNTRY.
That fucking smug as c*nt Secretary of the Army should be fucking before a military court for treason. Total fucking lying bitch ass punk. Who would possibly believe that BULLSHIT? I swear to the FSM, the country better wake the fuck up or it will eat itself alive.
I am so sick of this bullshit patriotism in this fucking la-la land of fat, stupid, lazy, doped up morons waving their god damned flags like a bunch of Nazis. BULLSHIT!
If anyone actually GAVE A SHIT about this place they would NOT stand for the ass fucking it is taking from a bunch of lying, greedy cowards.
And the elections... how the fuck is McCain neck and neck with the fucking Democrats? How? Eight years of utter calamity and bull shit and that many people are ready to grab their ankles AGAIN?
I have to go get a drink now. Fuck this. Sorry, but I can't swallow this shit right now.
Pat Tillman? Who is that?
Let's not get carried away with irrelevant details. Pat Tillman was murdered. The forensic evidence points to that. This wasn't "friendly fire". This was a fragging.
ysbaddaden @ 73:
I can't watch one minute of this phoney perky middle-aged media whore! I have not watched CBS News since she started. I applaud 60 Minutes for running the story, but an investigative reporter should have handled it.
kerplunk: "Pat Tillman? Who is that?"
What? Are you proud to be a moron? Congrats! Good job being a moron!
evenplayingfield @ 83:
Her?
http://www.diosa.net/circus/wp-content/themes/circus_diosa/images/LaraLo...
evenplayingfield @ 83:
They all routinely drop the ball. Scott Pelley's segment right before (on the Dallas County DA gone wild - mostly against scary black guys) was full of insipid questions spoken with drippingly fake shock and surprise. The show is not even a shadow of its former self. Reasoner and Bradley are grave-spinning. Mike Wallace is probably feigning his issues to disengage himself from the travesty of it all. These guys used to be the ones who dug the dirt and let the light in; now they just "ooh and ah" like so many Larry King-Lites.
Ratface @ 79:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POl4vFp-5os
I get my news from the BBC and The Guardian.
It would be awesome if just ONE of the videos on this site worked today, I love this blog, but you guys are slipping on the quality here lately.
Site Monitor: Your concern is duly noted. We are unfortunately under attack by hackers, not a question of quality. We're doing our best to remedy the situation.
tyree @ 37:
Pat Tillman said no such thing. The words were a fabrication of an Army chaplain who interviewed the soldier who was at Tillman's side. The soldier was a good friend of Tillman and corrected the record when he came home from his tour of duty.
The Army must be full of honorable men who will step up and tell his family the truth ---NOT.
But if you comment or disparage the Army in any way, you're unpatriotic.
I'd love to see the emails about this case but they're probably missing.
material vessel @ 89:
Thanks for the heads up. I retract my statement on quality, and wish you luck in dealing with the asshats of the internet.
Did they mention Pat Tillman was shot three times in the head at point blank range? Did they mention Tillmans vehement opposition to the war? did they mention his relationship with Noam Chomsky (they had talked and Tillman - amazingly - was a fan of his)
60 Minutes Sunday was great.
To cover Dr. Paul Farmer, the Innocence Project and Pat Tillman is a hint of the old 60 minutes that, in these days would be satisfactory.
To even mention Pat Tillman and recount the lies they told is radical stuff for the new corporate 60 minutes.
Accident or assassination ?
Triple tap to the face after being blown backwards.(3 holes in a 2" circle)
His buddy said there were two fellows,who weren't from their company, coming up the hill firing and Tillman ID'ed himself and was blown away.
The question is who were they and do we use Blackwaters as enforcers against atheists who turn against this holy war?
this is a must read LONG post on this website
Frank Dufek @ 66:
Don't think so. From what I've read, Tillman signed up thinking Afghanistan was some noble adventure, but then changed his mind after seeing Iraq. I think what some other poster(s) said about the Bushies thinking they could score some PR points on his death (by covering up the messy friendly-fire part) is a more realistic explanation of events. Remember Jessica Lynch?
Anyway, Tillman made what turned out to be a fatal mistake in judgment signing on to Cheney's War. So he was flawed, but then aren't we all? But the guy had many great qualities -- intelligence, independence, loyalty. It's truly a shame he never made it back. He'd probably be in Congress by now, and actually making a difference...
knifewrench @ 97:
I don't see how he made a mistake. After 9/11, he felt compelled to do something for his country and gave up a high paying job as a professional athlete. Once involved, he, like many, realized his good will was being abused, to put it lightly, and started to speak out about the situation. It's pretty easy for anyone to not enlist and say that people who volunteer for military service are making "mistakes in judgment." Everyone who joins the army knows they could die, it's the circumstances of Tillman's death that make this infuriating.
The factors that made Tillman's story look like juicy propaganda to the right wing are the reasons his story should be remembered and exposed for what it truly is. Pat Tillman was clearly a great and selfless person, and as far as image and a surface appraisal of his background goes, he's everything that makes Ann Coulter wet while she lies in her crypt, but the mistake the likes of her and the administration made was that he wasn't simply an image. He had a brain and he used it. He thought for himself, and he spoke up about his opinions. The fact that he may have been murdered for these opinions and the administration is not only trying to block further investigation into what happened, but, in yet another affront to basic decency and all that is right, tried to hijack his image and legacy for their own political gain, needs to be clearly explained to the American people so that it can incite the fury it deserves.
Eric Paulsen @ 21:
Tillman's brother was drunk at the funeral.
Once Obama is in office, Bush won't be able to hide behind his bullshit priveledges.
What the hell is 'executive confidentiality interest' anyway? Sounds like something the chimp pulled out of his ass to cover his ass.
jdw @ 100:
Simply, they wouldn't be hiding something if there wasn't something to hide.
CD @ 99:
So?
I watched this segment and what struck me as being odd was Katie Couric (or her producer) seemed to just take chunks of Mrs. Tillman's responses to Couric's question, even at one point using a Couric "voice over" which talked over Mrs. Tillman's voice, which was drowned out. Strange.
I'd love to see the complete, uncut, unedited interview...because my impression was that even though this "60 Minutes" segment covered a very controversial incident that involved a cover-up reaching to the highest levels of the Bush administration, that "60 Minutes" was trying to deflect blame from being placed on top-level Bush officials. We know that Bush, Cheney and Karl Rove used the death of Pat Tillman for political propaganda purposes, and that military coroners refused to sign off on the Bush/Cheney/Rove-spun tale of his death, primarily because Pat Tillman suffered three close-together bullet holes to his forehead, indicating that the shots fired that killed him were from close quarters, instead of being fired by an enemy high up above on a canyon ridge.
So, while I greatly applaud Couric and "60 Minutes" running this investigative story, I feel that they pulled their punches, shying away from laying out all the facts that point to a top-level Bush administration cover-up...while just as in the case of Abu Ghraib, lower level soldiers have been punished...as top-level corrupt Bush administration officials skate once again.
JeezusssHCrhist! Katie Couric reporting on Pat Tillman's death........
I guess we know NOW how important Tillman's death is to the slugs of war in this administration.
tjb @ 102:
So that calls into question anything he said at the funeral.
Tillman was an honest person who probably discussed his political views openly.
I can just imagine certain of his "brothers" from particular
parts of the country not liking his "Commie"(Not) atheistic views
and making phone calls and making sure that the brass
were made aware. They particularly don't like stuff like
reading books that have nothing to do with females, tactics and weapons and sports.
Pat probably made it a point that he was not
a typical dumb jock who didn't know how to read and that he liked Chomsky.
This led to um political discussions. Very, Very dangerous I can tell you that.
I am not a Norm Chomsky fan bit I saw him speak at the Air Force Acadamy
and NOT ONE VOICE was raised against him during Q&A. The reason?
Chomsky, even in old age, just overwhelmed them and was too damn smart.
I offer to you all an alternative to the phrase MSM, Main Stream Media. Calling it Main Stream gives it too much credibility, Let's call it what i has become "Pop Media". Calling it Popular media is also too credible sounding. Pop, that's all it is. Britney Spears is Pop, the major US networks are Pop too. Let's call it Pop media until the US networks earn back a title more dignified.
All the Best,
I havent read through this entire thread of comments and I'm not sure how many people think he was murdered but this is more than a cover up. Someone, for reasons we dont know, wanted Tillman dead. And dead he is, with the evidence burned right after his murder.
Why would they be on a mountaintop, after popping smoke, and some of his fellow soldiers, along with, its been said, some CIA operatives in their midst (who dismounted and were firing at the scene that day, its on record) anbd this what we DO know.
What about what we dont?
The Secretary of the Army gave a terrible performance lying. He knows the truth is buried.
echo @ 4:
It goes over great in Peoria, trust me.
tyree @ 48:
Thats a great story, thanks for sharing it. I actually think I heard of this.
All armies have done this. Good German kids who were given the choice of death or fighting in the Wehrmacht made the following sacrifices on the Eastern Front, and it happened in all wars, the Vietnamese did it regularly against American troops, as did Japanese in fighting for their emporer.
War is a terrible exercise that somehow continues to be glorified and rationalized when it should never be. Its glorifying an atrocity. Wars are all atrocities unless when fought in self defense.
We will only get the truth, when we get rid of these ass holes, we currently have plastered all over our dame media and oh what a shame it is that this mother is going through what she is going through, and to think she is a white woman that has been screwed over.
One of the very people they are now playing up to for her vote. And the same media that lied to her about her son too, that is not going to come clean with her either.
This is exactly what these people have come to be in the lives of all Americans, who really need to see clean through them and blast the holy shit out of all of them.
This fight for justice in this country is going to continue full blast, until we rid ourselves of all these pigs.
This is really hearbreaking.
knifewrench @ 97:
Tillman did the right thing. He went there to die while every other rich fuck went home to screw their girlfriend and talk about how they're way too smart to join up. I can't stand arrogant pacifists such as yourself because you let immigrants and minorities take your place on the front lines. Your smugness just makes you seem like even more of a coward.
Tillman didn't change his mind after seeing Iraq, he was against it the whole entire time. Which is more than can be said for the vast majority of lazy Americans who gave Bush his 90% approval ratings post 9-11. Now if you're so with it that you keep up a personal correspondence with Noam Chomsky, maybe you can talk shit about Tillman. But chances are you were in that 90%.
And for your information Lynch wasn't shot 3 times in the head at close range.
Say what? I have been so drunk I could barely stand, so high on shrooms that I was seeing aliens and felt like I was wrapped head to toe in electric fur, and I never said anything I couldn't remember later or that was a lie. I may have been a little more willing to say things that would never have made it past my internal filters on a "normal" day but being under the influence of intoxicants did NOT change who I am, and I am basically an honest person. I have no reason to doubt Pat Tillman's brother unless or until he decides to correct the record himself.
Tillman volunteered to go kill other human beings. He actually left a well paying benign profession to do this. He then is killed
by other hired killers. Sounds like war to me. Until people wise up the most recent example of continued moral depravity will continue.
Killing begets killing.
War profiteers come in 2 colors.
The killing hardware manufacturers and the hired killers (soldiers).
Take the money out of war, and war will cease.
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