If an Iranian Weapon Bust Turns Out <I>Not</i> To Be Iranian...Does Anyone Hear A Sound?
By Nicole Belle Saturday May 10, 2008 8:30am
The Washington Monthly: (h/t Bill W)
IRAN'S WEAPONS....Tina Susman of the LA Times reports that Iranian involvement in Iraq's civil war may not be everything it's been cracked up to be:
There was something interesting missing from Maj. Gen. Kevin Bergner's introductory remarks to journalists at his regular news briefing in Baghdad on Wednesday: the word "Iran," or any form of it. It was especially striking as Bergner, the U.S. military spokesman here, announced the extraordinary list of weapons and munitions that have been uncovered in recent weeks since fighting erupted between Iraqi and U.S. security forces and Shiite militiamen.
....A plan to show some alleged Iranian-supplied explosives to journalists last week in Karbala and then destroy them was canceled after the United States realized none of them was from Iran. A U.S. military spokesman attributed the confusion to a misunderstanding that emerged after an Iraqi Army general in Karbala erroneously reported the items were of Iranian origin.
When U.S. explosives experts went to investigate, they discovered they were not Iranian after all.
As Kevin Drum points out, this was a small post on the LA Times Iraq blog. Not the front page of the LA Times, just a small online note. Would any of us have heard about it otherwise? How many times have we heard that Iran is supplying the "enemy" in Iraq? That seems to get through the media loud and clear. Why, it's almost as if the media is simply relying on the Pentagon and the White House talking points. Hmmm....
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I read that article last night.
And your right. We probably won't hear a sound about it in the MSM.
I wonder what tipped them off that they weren't Iranian. I saw an official powerpoint presentation a couple of years ago of "seized Iranian" ordinance and noticed that:
-- The writing had Latin lettering instead of Arabic.
-- There were English abbreviations (ie: "CAT" for catalog, "SER" for serial).
-- The dates were European style numbering instead of Arabic, and written in a format that is unique to the US (month-day-year).
It doesn't take an expert to figure these things out.
When are we going to do something about a government that manufactures justifications for going to war to kill non-judeo-christian peoples of the world?
I am ashamed of what our so-called "democratic" republic has become, when even those who are supposed to provide the checks and balances on insane leadership do nothing substantive to deal with domestic war criminals.
Once again the neoconservatives want to spread the wars. A timeline:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ti...
About 9 months ago I watched a program on the Military Channel and the subject was a man who invented the very same type of i.e.d. that is so devastating to military vehicles as well as military personnel! The interesting thing about this story was that this guy who invented this type of explosive is an American -I REPEAT-AMERICAN and that says volumes about the B.S. that the msm is trying to shove down America's collective throats!The msm would have us believe that this horrific explosive device was thought up and manufactured ONLY in Iran and I say BULLSHIT. More lies from the very people who are supposed to be keeping us informed about conditions on the ground in Iraq,but, they ( the msm) would rather lie to us so that they may protect the chimp and co.
I've never understood the whole Iranian weapons meme. Wouldn't it be totally logical to find Iranian manufactured weapons in Iraq regardless, since they are immediate neighbors? If handguns were illegal for sale in DC, but you found criminals with guns they had bought in Virginia, would law enforcement say "Virginia is supplying armaments to criminal gangs in DC and we need Virginia to stop"? The whole thing is such bullshit.
oh it doesn't matter that the weapons are not actually Iranian; the important thing is for the American Sheeple to BELIEVE they are Iranian. Don't you understand how the game works?
Crying wolf has been a constant practice of the worst administration ever. It would be ridiculous to believe them.
But, but, but they are a terrorist nation, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children, oh wait...shit...that would be us.
Even though it's not in the name, aren't Muslims technically Judeo-christian since they identify themselves as decendants of...Cain's brother or something like that, I can't remember.
Ex-Canuck @ 3:
I just want to know if the weapons had "Stark Industries" marked on the side...
It is as if the News Networks has not learned a thing from the recent NYT ex-pentagon military analyst scandal. They are still just echoing Pentagon talking points when it comes the Iraq war and War on Terror in general.
For more on the recent scandal from someone who read the 8,000 pages release by the Pentagon and on how the Networks are still keeping a closed lid on it, pretending it never happened:
www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
blaME @ 12:
Research is expensive, repetition is not.
Ooops.
Well the Iranians would have supplied them with weapons if some American entrepreneur had thought of it fir$t. Just becasue a $mart capitali$t beat the idealogues to the punch, doesn't mean that we aren't ju$tified in bombing those who harming u$ by sitting on oil that is rightfully our$.
Bethynyc @ 11:
"ACME", beep, beep!
The wing nut neocons and their shit brain apologists will just roll out a new talking point that makes sense to their clueless masses. One reader's response to Tina Susman's article now blames the lengthening involvement by claiming the war would have been over two years ago but for Iranian involvement! They can be flexible in their games of deception.
We know from the past that the Pentagon would not lie about facts to start a war on purpose just for political reasons...however Satan would, hmmmmm!
Shocking!!!
Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 2:
Thank you I was going to point out ....Exactly...the same thing...They all looked like US Ordinance when I saw all the News stories 2-3 years ago...and I was thinking to myself...what...won't ...these people do (and manufacture stories(...to spin, this war, the direction they want it to go.
Wonder where these weapons came from? China? Russia?
Haze @ 20:
The article says they (the weapons) had european markings...read it!
but... but... Clinton, Clinton, Clinton....
Most of the guns used in murders in DC are from Virginia. Plans to invade have been shelved because DC is a lot smaller and has a lower budget.
I don't understand...we invaded iraq,
we are mettling in their affarirs,
plus are creating who knows how many covert/overt crimes against iran,
and yet somehow they are not allowed to defend themselves?
What with all those Weapons of Mass Destruction missing and what not.
Somewhat OT, But significant.
The public relations executive whom Senator John McCain’s campaign had chosen to run the Republican National Convention this summer resigned his post on Saturday after a magazine reported that his firm had lobbied for the military junta that runs Myanmar.
The executive, Doug Goodyear, said in a statement that he was stepping down as the coordinator of the convention, which will be held Sept. 1-4 in Minneapolis-St. Paul, “so as not to become a distraction in this campaign
Mr. Goodyear is the chief executive and a founding partner of the DCI Group, which has offices in Washington and Phoenix. He offered his resignation after Newsweek reported that his firm had been paid $348,000 in 2002 to represent the junta.
I'm just saying .....
The media isn't "relying" upon the Pentagon, it's employed and deployed by the Pentagon (and the White House). We really aren't doing ourselves any favors by continuing to hope that the so-called media and press are actually going to perform the task of journalism in anything other than isolated instances. That hope is a delusion. They are propaganda organs that exist for no other reason than to manipulate. And because delusional hope seems to spring eternal, we are always being shocked by some lie or some ommission. Indulging in that hope is a means of helping the manipulation succeed. Calling attention to the lies, an action which nobody who is a trusting consumer of the propaganda is likely to become aware of, probably does nothing to enlighten those who are in greatest need of seeing truth.
I don't know what the solution is, but continuing to be shocked by something we should all always expect seems to just perpetuate the process. The press/media is irredeemably corrupt and strikes me as being beyond hope of fixing. Got to get more and more people hitting the blogs, because it is the only remaing arena where a free press that is dedicated to the principles of journalism still exists.
Another republican lie exposed. There is no proof the government of Iran provides weapons to kill Americans in Iraq.
Bottom Line: Republicans are liars and cannot be trusted.
Oh the iron of American't Ignorance
http://tinyurl.com/4vw5xx
L.A. Confidential @ 29:
I meant irony of course.
Heck, it seems like anyone with a copy of Shotgun News could be an International Arms Dealer.
McCain the Liar @ 28:
Republicans are liars and cannot be trusted.
I remember my grandma saying that when I was a little kid.
Best tip-clue-advise I have ever been given.
L.A. Confidential @ 29:
Wow. That picture truly says a thousand words.
So they weren't from Iran.
Where WERE the weapons from...? I assume it's someplace that exposes a member of the Bush Administration, since they've never let little things like facts stand in the way of propaganda before. The only thing that ever gives them pause is potential legal problems for their troupe of war profiteers.
CatAtomic @ 34:
wonder if they can be traced back to the teenage arms dealer Efraim and his $300 million arms contract by any chance !
who else do we know that was buying up European munitions and shipping them to Iraq...
bigironal @ 5:
The tank-splitting IEDs was a technology used since WWII. A small Marxist terror group in Europe during the late-80's killed a bank CEO sitting in an armored car using the technology on the back of a bicycle.
So what is the technology? A copper plate set next to an explosive aimed in one direction (sort of like a claymore mine with a copper plate next to it). The explosion deforms the plate, while turning it into a sharp projectile, slicing through some of the thickest steel armor.
The picture that goes with this post shows stacks of such copper plates. While the media was trying to pin the manufacture of those plates on Iran by saying they "were too technologically complex", even the official Pentagon word was saying that was false. Those plates were pumped out by a hole-in-the-wall machine shop in Baghdad.
Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 36:
Copper smithing and other '3rd world' tech is old as humanity, its the west with its reliance on deskilling labor and micro cell high tech manufacturing that finds this tech baffling.
A kid (with a an interest in weapons history) with a book from the library could design these weapons.
USSalkaselsior @ 10:
Abraham is claimed as father of both the Jews, and more lately, the Muslims (pre-Islam, I guess the difference was between Hebrews and other non-Hebrew semitic peoples). By his concubine, Hagar, he first fathered Ishmael (claimed by Muslims), and by his wife, Sarah, he then fathered Isaac (claimed by Jews). Jesus and Mohammed were said to have been able to trace their lineage to Abraham (Most people don't know their begats for more than 2 or 3 generations).
The claim is not simply one of heredity - based on Biblical scripture, the firstborn of Abraham was to be the heir to the "god's chosen people" status symbol, as well as divinely-granted right to the land of Cannaan. Oy!). A recipe for disaster.
Historically, the relationship of the Muslims and Jews has been one of tolerance. This relationship changed in the last half of the 20th century (for both obvious and subtle social/political/cultural reasons).
Christianity is nothing like Judaism or Islam, culturally or historically. It is a weird hybrid of Judaism and pre-Christian European religions/philosophies.
There is no such thing as a "judeo-christian" tradition or heritage.
All that said - religion is bullshit (complex bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless).
Marcus Aurelius @ 38:
Well technically you can say the same for Judaism as it was originally a polytheistic religion that borrowed heavily from Asian religions and then later got mixed up with Nordic and Greek mythologies seeing as they were in the crossroads of European trade routes to Asia.
Other than that, agreed.
More on topic, big surprise there. The republicks have been shopping various fictions about Iran since at least 2004, why would it change now, they're even regurgitating some of their own stories.
L.A.
Come to Canada and the cheapest gas is in Ontario-Toronto area--$5.00/USA gallon
In Quebec is past $6.00/gallon. To Americans--It's our cheap oil sent to you that keeps your military going and going. 80% of USA foriegn oil comes from Canada--Lucky you !
Just wait when all free medical care kicks in.
I suspect Belgium. damn sprouts and weapon dealers. distasteful.
Typical of the MSM..
I remember the boat incident, where deadly Iranians in rubber boats armed with radios were caught patrolling their own waters. Before I saw the footage the media made it out as though an entire Iranian naval fleet had fired its payload at one of our ships.
Anyone who relies on the LA Times for the truth is a fool.
If you get this sorry corporate paper cancel it. Same goes for the the NYT WAPO and Chicago Trib. Cancel them. They sold us one war. They can't be trusted now.
Personally I have no doubt that Iran is supplying weapons to factions inside of Iraq. They certainly have a motive, a history, and enough reports from various quarters. As would we if it was our neighbor. But Ahmadinejad's rheotoric is just getting crazier and crazier and last week he was even chided by the mullahs to stop talking about the "hidden imam" and start doing something about the economy.
When the Iranian mullahs chide you for sounding like a nutter? Oh boy. The situation in Beirut is likely more Iranian posturing for a tighter grip on Israel. I dont agree with military strikes but we should use the UN to contain him.
Lies and propaganda...
It is so shocking the whole 'Iranian' connection is like the Alkyda connection with Sadam, no?
The enimies if America are in the White house.
It is clear we will have no justice.
Hell we can't even call for the APROPRIOTE action - The actions that have searved OUR NATION over it's history.
The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots AND TRATORS...
Or we can sit around and crack jokes while the freakin' Fascists take over...
They lied about 911, they lied about Sadam, they lied about the war (before during and when it is over, they will lie about that too) and we can't even call for thier heads - 'Cause it is offensive to the corperate suppport and makes liberals uncomfortable.
History has shown that liberals are Fascists best friends.
Gary @ 41:
did you catch that news story from nearly a year ago, when it was claimed some Iranian comedian spray painted the stern of a US Frigate from a rubber boat at night !
There were photos, not sure if it was US sailors having a joke (between ships maybe) or actually happened as reported.
Restore the Constitution @ 42:
I totally agree. I quit reading the newspaper (just like bush). I also quit watching CBS / NBC / ABC national news. When you step away for a while and than venture back to catch a media story, it is amazing how obvious to tell we are being feed government talking points. The U.S. involvement in the Middle East continues to be perpetuated by carefully crafted media reports. Some Americans can see thru this b.s..
Alright, I'll bite. From who did the weapons come from? European? What's that suppose to mean? Germany, Italy, France? Come on, now... you can do better than that! Not where... WHO? Damn corporate MSM...
If these weapons had Euro tags on them, I would suspect France or Germany. They would be the ones I think would be trying to make money from selling weapons. It wouldn't be their first time. Aside from Britain, their the largest arms dealers in Europe.Correct me if I'm wrong here folks, But It wouldn't be the first time Germany (or France for that matter) had their fingers in that pie.
wundermaus @ 49:
excellant point. Who?
Well no shit .....who woulda thunk.
It's a lie. All of it.
Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 2:
But a paid 'expert' will certainly help the pentagon, as will the media owned by the war-profiteering megalomaniacs. but we already know this. they will rely as usual on the short memory span of the average amurkkkan.
Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 2:
dates were European style numbering instead of Arabic
?? WTF ??
I'd thought that all the latin and anglo-saxon world used Arabic numbering style...
Go figure!
editor @ 7:
We do understand. Some of us anyway. Only too well.
The scenario is well known. There's nothing we can do to prevent it though except cry out on the internet. The rest of world knows too. Iran knows too. The administration knows that everyone knows but is confident it doesn't matter.They're right. What a nightmare!!
mudshark @ 51:
I wouldn't be surprized if it turned out to be US.
Who benifited from that really, really huge bomb that killed the UN workers and chased the UN out of Iraq?
Who benifited from the video of the beheading of the American 3 days after the Abu Grabe 'college hazing' incident?
Who can beleive any of the shit we are presented by the media/pentagon?
We are the enemy - LOL
It is one big lie sprinkled with FALSE FLAG operations...
Ollie North testified that they had a plan to bomb the US embasy in Honduras so they could blame it on 'the enemy'...
Same crowd, same shit.
mudshark @ 51:
that's american ordanance. they did the same thing on c(ia)n(ews)n(etwork) a couple of months ago. they actually put the pics on the tv. if you ever visited a fort or a navy ship, even a retired vessel, you'll see the similarities. they always have to clearly mark stuff or risk blowing up a lot of stuff.
On second thought, maybe the ordinance is US-issue from a NATO member.
I used to ask one question all the time... If Iran is shipping all of these weapons then have we ever caught one smuggler crossing the border?
All that said - religion is bullshit (complex bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless).
I agree. Religion is used --certainly in this country--to dumb down the masses to minimise dissent for the coming dictatorship. Same thing in providing inferior education, which is no accident. They intended Americans to be stupid and uneducated for that reason. Hence the apathy and self-destruction. THAT'S the matter with Kansas.
We WILL attack Iran, but it'll be as result of a false flag, blaming Iran for something it did not do. False flags have existed for centuries. The best prevention is education. Google it.
This is beginning to sound depressingly familiar.......
"We need to attack! Iraq is a threat to America!"
"What? Where did that come from?"
"They attacked the US!"
"When? Where? I don't understand....."
"On 9/11! Iraq attacked us on 9/11!"
"Wait, that was Osama Bin Laden!"
"Exactly! Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are friends!"
"No they aren't!"
"Yes they are!"
"No they aren't! They don't even talk to each other!"
"No, they're just pretending! They are secretly friends."
"Secretly? Like they don't talk in public because they pretend to not like each other, but in private, they don't talk because they secretly like each other?"
"It's diabolical, isn't it?"
"Wait, why would you think they're friends if they don't talk to each other?"
"Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, just like Osama wants."
"What weapons?"
"They're there."
"Where?"
"There"
"I don't see anything."
"They're hidden. You can't detect them."
"Then how do you know they're there?"
"They have to be there. Why else would he be hiding them?"
"Hiding what? I DON'T SEE ANY WEAPONS!"
"Wait, there they are!"
".....That's not a weapon of mass destruction!"
"Yes it is."
"No, it isn't. It's a missile with the serial code scratched off and "Death to America" spray-painted on it. In English, I might add."
"Nonetheless, it's in Iraq, so it's proof they mean to harm us."
"But you dropped it there."
"No, I didn't."
"Yes you did, it fell out of your truck."
"Well what about THIS?!"
"What, that vial?"
"It's anthrax. It proves they mean to harm us!"
"You carry a vial of anthrax in your pocket?"
"Well, it's not really anthrax...."
"What is it?"
"It's a bit of flour. Looks like the real thing."
"So it's not anthrax?"
"But it could be....."
"But it's not! It's got nothing to do with Iraq or Al Qaeda!"
"Listen, if I were to dump just a pinch of this powder in an envelope with a letter to you, and you would-"
"-bake the world's smallest cupcake?"
"You'd shrivel up and die like a slug in a salt factory, that's what!"
"How?! IT'S NOT BLOODY REAL!"
"But it could be, that's the point!"
"Why am I arguing with you? It's like trying to teach a dog quote Nietzsche!"
"I knew you would see things my way eventually......"
(grumble)
Peter and the wolf
Conspiracy theroy @ 58:
Like we caught Bin Laden. A very dead Bin Laden.
Shades of Iran/Contra- U.S. weapons sent to Nicaragua ended up being used against American aid workers.
I hear a company called Zapata Engineering out of Tel Aviv makes a majority of the "IEDs" in Iraq.
Of course, since Zapata Offshore Oil was run by GHWBush in the 50-60's up until the Bay of Pigs and all the events that came from that...
I suspect looking up that company would help any who wnat to know the truth. Don't let me stop you.
mystic @ 61:
The only conspiracy I can see now is how people CANNOT see the truth of the matter. At least question it. QUESTION.
QUESTION.
Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 2:
Yep.. Must have been made by North Korea... They are so evil... They are black and white...
It has been apparently been fOUnd that the alleges against Iranians supplying Iraquies weapons made from Iran TO BE FALSE.....just as false AS the false claim made that Al Queda top leader in IRAQ was captured in IRAQ just as FALSE as the claim made that IRAQ was manufacturing WMD post 9-11 and just as FALSE as President's lies about USA does NOT TORTURE........or just as FALSE as Abromauff had no accesses to the WHITE HOUSE OR TOM DELAY free from corruption charges.
is anyone curious as to who is uspplying the arms?
uhhh, furgive me for askin' ,
but what is the country or countries of origin for the recovered ordinances?
are they ours?
if they are from a england, france, germany, russia, or china, can we invade???
i'm all for it!
let's kick some foreign butt!!!
lilorphant @ #66
yep, what if these are from the iran-contra trades
can't we tell by the serial numbers?
thanks ronnie, even in death, you are with us...
mystic @ 64:
Bin who? Did he ever exist?
tuxe @ 54:
While the European numbering was borrowed from the Arabs, there is quite a difference.
Not that I have proof of what I'm about to say, but if one day it's revealed that the U.S. military supplied these weapons to so-called "insurgents" through third-party middle men (read: arms dealers) in hopes of making money and keeping the occupation going, well, I won't be surprised.
Stranger Than Fiction @ 75:
I have to be honest, the thought crossed my mind too.
Kinda like the Al Qeada top dog they DID NOT capture last week in Iraq . Nothing new . "mudshark" , NOTHING at all that these lunatics have done or will do would surprise me , I would not doubt if THEY KNEW 9 11 was going down and let it happen , I would not doubt it if they took part in it or even arranged it , that's how criminal , evil and insane Bush and this entire administration is , truly there should be a Stalin style purge of all neocon in this country , from the top on down .
Yes BUT Ahmadinejad want to wipe Israel off the map!
That ALONE makes those weapons belong to Iran no matter what the FACTS are.
You don't have to take my word for it SEE for YOURSELF!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Israel+off+the+map&search_type=
Why hasn't John Bolton's name been brought up on this thread yet?
He's holding the drum sticks to this drum.
Conspiracy theroy @ 59:
Good question .
Maybe the Iran Iraq border is similar to:
1. The North Vietnam, Suth Vietnam border - porous as a seive
2. The Afghan , Pakistan border -purous as a seive
3. The US , Mexican border - porous as a seive
dispite all the high tech equipment the US has at it's
disposal.
Maybe these weapons are entering Iraq via some other route
which the Iranians have no influence on..
Hi!
For those who ask when is the MSM going to report on this I say, I hope you like your new blue skin.
mudshark @ 51:
Everybody sing..........Oh Blackwater, keep on movin', big ol' weapons just keep a movin' on.................
Iran: the modern day Cambodia.
I never understood why the Iraqis (or the Palestinians) don't have better weapons if Iran keeps supplying them. State-of-the-art AT-AA missiles, mines, mortars, and other Russian "small ordinance" would definitely make some effect on the occupying forces. Iran is in the best position to disperse these. Instead the insurgents (or freedom fighters, depending whose point of view you take) use antique RPGs, and IEDs. (And hobby rockets.)
I don't know if it makes any difference,but ,to clarify my statement @#5, these i.e.d.'s are , what are known as "shape charges" that our military has been using since ww2 and maybe even longer! As before my point being, the msm is lying to all of us about the origin of most of the weapons being used against us in Iraq!
Doesn't matter, we should bomb Iran anyway. Then when we're done we should bomb France too.
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