What hath the Supreme Court wrought?
By Steve Benen Monday May 12, 2008 1:15pm
When Indiana passed a voter ID law, it was ostensibly to protect the integrity of the voting process. What better way to prevent voter fraud than to require those participating in an election to produce identification?
Was there any evidence of a voter-fraud scourge in Indiana? No. Would the law make it harder for “certain kinds” of voters (i.e., the elderly, minorities, and the poor) to participate? Yes. Did this look a whole lot like Republican lawmakers trying to discourage likely Democratic voters from taking part in elections? Obviously.
But in a painfully misguided ruling, the Supreme Court approved the Indiana measure anyway. We’re now seeing the predictable result — conservatives who want voter ID laws to help keep Democrats from the polls are ratcheting up their efforts.
The battle over voting rights will expand this week as lawmakers in Missouri are expected to support a proposed constitutional amendment to enable election officials to require proof of citizenship from anyone registering to vote.
The measure would allow far more rigorous demands than the voter ID requirement recently upheld by the Supreme Court, in which voters had to prove their identity with a government-issued card.
Sponsors of the amendment — which requires the approval of voters to go into effect, possibly in an August referendum — say it is part of an effort to prevent illegal immigrants from affecting the political process. Critics say the measure could lead to the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of legal residents who would find it difficult to prove their citizenship.
Similar Republican-led efforts are under consideration in 19 states, but Missouri’s effort is the only one that might take effect before this year’s presidential election.
Robin Carnahan (D), Missouri’s secretary of state, estimates that the measure could disenfranchise up to 240,000 registered voters who would be unable to prove their citizenship. (In 2000 and 2004, the margin of victory in Missouri was less than 200,000 votes, meaning that the GOP voter ID plan could easily make a difference in deciding the winner of the state’s electoral votes.)
Digby concluded:
This is what the voter-fraud fraud has always been about: making voting such a hassle that a lot of voters will just figure it isn’t worth the trouble or don’t feel like being treated like dirt by officials who suspect them of being criminals on the basis of their ethnicity. I would imagine that there are a whole lot of older people who’ve never had to prove their citizenship in their lives and wouldn’t have a clue about how to go about doing it.
This whittling away at the franchise will be one of the greatest accomplishments of the conservative movement when all is said and done. They simply don’t believe in the democratic concept of one person one vote. Never have.
I’d just add that it’s far from clear that the Supreme Court would go for this. The court majority endorsed the Indiana measure, but it required a photo ID. If someone doesn’t have a driver’s license, they can get a state ID card for free. It’s a huge hassle, especially for elderly people who can’t get around easily or low-income workers who can’t get time off to go to a courthouse, but there were options. (In other states, utility bills, paychecks, and student or military ID cards meet identification requirements.)
Proving U.S. citizenship is tougher, creating a hurdle that’s harder to clear. Missouri voters would likely have to produce an original birth certificate, naturalization papers, or a passport in order to participate in an election, and a whole lot of eligible voters would likely be denied a ballot or decide in advance it’s not worth the trouble. Maybe five justices would sign off on this, maybe not, but it’s not obvious.
Lillie Lewis, a voter who lives in St. Louis and spoke at a news conference last week organized to oppose the amendment, said she already had a difficult time trying to get a photo ID from the state, which asked her for a birth certificate. Ms. Lewis, who was born in Mississippi and said she was 78 years old, said officials of that state sent her a letter stating that they had no record of her birth.
“That’s downright wrong,” Ms. Lewis said. “I have voted in almost all of the presidential races going back I can’t remember how long, but if they tell me I need a passport or birth certificate that’ll be the end of that.”
A 2006 federal rule intended to keep illegal immigrants from receiving Medicaid was widely criticized by state officials for shutting out tens of thousands of United States citizens who were unable to find birth certificates or other documents proving their citizenship.
Is there any evidence at all to suggest non-citizens are voting and influencing U.S. elections? Not at all; that’s not what this is about.
This is a scheme launched by far-right activists who hope to get fewer Democrats to vote. Plain and simple. Republicans have a choice — try to win elections the old fashioned way (by earning the support of voters), or try to shave a few percentage points off the likely vote totals of the other side. They seem to prefer the latter, even if it means proposing a solution to a problem that doesn’t exit.
As Josh Marshall explained a while back, “Remember, the point of voter ID laws is not to eliminate fraud; it is to eliminate Democratic voters.”
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I'm sure the Supremes will be happy to hear any and all such cases brought by any and all states to ensure the desireable election results by November.
Democracy is anti American! /s
Impeach Scalia and Thomas! Conflict of interest and gross incompetence, respectively.
McFrist.
sorry I had to do it.
damn.
Papers. Papers, please.
And apparently the goal is to stop nuns from voting as well.
A bad, bad situation, and one we have to keep on top of - but an opportunity to further expose Republicans for what they are.
The Supreme Court is made up of political appointees. One does not exactly get there by being the best legal mind in the country. It's not what you know; but, who you blow.
What is it with those that desire power so much that they would work to take such an important right away...please help me understand such people.
It is my State that the Court ruled in favor of...we need a Constitutional Convention to change a few things...among them, lifetime appointments to anything in Government.
What a pathetic bunch of losers: the repugs realize that they cannot win on a level playing field, so they make it part & parcel of their everyday strategy to cheat... even when it means destroying our rights or ignoring the same Constitution that they pretend to hold so dear.
Why do repugs hate America so much? Are they really such a bunch of weak-kneed little followers who need an authority figure like Cheney to tell them what to do & what to think?
"In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." -H.L. Mencken
.
Why does the SCOTUS hate my freedom to vote?
.
This is so unfair. Everyone, including undocumented aliens and foreigners, should be able to vote in USA elections. After all. they ARE all affected by what the USA does/
I don't see what the problem is with them voting.
The GOP will try anything.This we already know. But in a way, they have too , otherwise they don't stand a chance in Nov. Is it wrong? Absolutely. This is just the beginning.
It is time to begin the recall of several of the justices on our courts. Please begin creating citizen initiatives that will require your state to issue impeachment votes to congress to have them removed. We only need the majority required to force them from their thrones.
We are not talking about only the Bush's idiot appointments to the supreme court. Hundreds of unqualified conspirators of the neocon movement have been installed while our congress has approved them knowing, and there is no doubt, that they were part of the criminal conspiracy that is our current government.
Imagine an idiot like Clarence Thomas doing anything but teaching as a tenured professor? He isn't capable of any other job, and clearly has sexual problems that make him a fine republican. He just doesn't fit our America. The recent appointments are absurd and can be directly linked to the obstruction of justice in our courts and regarding the executive branch of government.
As Americans, we have a lot of shameful duties ahead of us. There will be many trials and there can be no soft sentences or others will attempt to repeat these crimes.
Oh yeah, Missouri is practically Tijuana.
Can there be any doubt *why* Republicans push this issue? It's to make it harder for people with less money to vote, period.
Eventually, people realised our conservative (Republican-Lite) government in Australia had gone too far and voted them out in huge numbers.
Unfortunately for America, you don't have the truly independent electoral commission that we have. No-one questions the vote tallies (which are quite accurate) and electoral boundaries aren't gerrymandered; being based and continually modified based on the population and are independent of interference from any of the political parties.
We're not free of interference (mostly internally when the parties pick candidates) but it's generally quite good. I hope one day they clear the way for genuinely free and fair elections in the US.
Failing that for now, I hope at least so many people vote for the Democrats that they can't fix the results.
"From October 2002 to September 2005, the Justice Department indicted 40 voters for registration fraud or illegal voting, 21 of whom were noncitizens, according to department records."
Once again, the Republicans (and their lackeys in the Supreme Court) "fix" a problem that never really existed. Disgraceful. Now it's up to the States to put together some sort of free identification program, as one Republican suggested. Sure. That'll happen.
Forget the Indiana Nuns; even Jesus couldn't vote in Indiana!
Maybe soon we'll have to sign "Loyalty Oaths".
I Like Pie @ 7:
The old adage about judges: a judge is just a lawyer who knows a politician.
If an individual does not have a drivers license or any other form of ID on their person when they show up to vote, they are too gattdam stupid to cast a vote. Good riddance.
I assume that the Indiana voter identification law extends to vote by mail. Not.
"Also, if you qualify to vote absentee-by-mail or absentee-by-traveling board, and you chose to vote as such, you are not required to present photo ID."
There will be many trials and there can be no soft sentences or others will attempt to repeat these crimes.
There will? Just who is going to initiate these trials and would it matter, anyway? The real (and only?) legacy of the Bush years is reflected in the local and federal courts that they have successfully (sometimes with Dem support!) packed with rightwing ideologues. Nothing will change that for decades.
the u.s supreme court is now the u.s criminal supreme court ...
Why do I keep expecting the court to do this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tqeETjBeFQ
Oh great, so they’re adding bouncers to the polling places. Will they be checking your ID at the door, or what? So much for the party of smaller government.
Supreme Court Justice Scalia has been all over the place repeating "get over it" in regard to the Supreme court Judicial Coup of 2000.
Do you think the Supreme Court Judges get the lack of respect that the majority of Americans feel towards them?
I don't think they get it. They need to spend more time on the streets
Well...seems the 15% solution is going well...bunch of fascist fucks!
drago @ 19:
Is a voter identification card enough?
Isn't Christofascism lovely?
Funny. The Second Amendment to the U. S. Constitution is supposed to be the failsafe that protects American citizens from this level of fascist tyranny and yet not a single rightarded gun nut mother fucker has "risen up" to exercise the very rights they claim they need their firearms to protect.
Democracy is an endangered species.
I read somewhere recently that because of gerrymandering all but around 15% of votes are for all intensive purposes,out of play.What remains is now being threatened by sleazy tactics like this,and an aggressively partisan press intent upon manipulating and controlling the outcome.What a sad farce.
The Japanese Americans were allowed to leave their internment camps during WWII as long as they could provide evidence that they were loyal American citizens, too.
We gotta stop the spread of brown people somehow! Before you know it America will have a huge population of brown people! While we're at it we should make tanning salon's illegal too. We need to protect our lilly-white skin!
Whatever happened to a citizen not having to prove innocence. It seems to me the citizen should be allowed to regiter unless someone has evidence of wrongdoing. It's all part of American citizens giving up rights and freedom due to a lack of interest.
Ah, but remember....
The Supreme Court Works in mysterious ways. Justice Stevens joined the majority (which was actually just a plurality). The majority opinion made clear that if disenfranchisement could be shown, unequivocally, then they will make voter id laws illegal.
In a way, this is a set up. Let the republicans pass their crazy laws, challenge them as disenfranchisement, and watch the supreme court lay down the law for good.
A ruling on the past case would have been weak, targeted, and with little staying power. The next round could bring broad reform.
-The Political Jerk
It's all about making everyone have their papers.
I heard from the mouth of the deputy DNI in person "Gosh, I wish we could track everyone at all times."
Papers please.
yeah i doubt the decision was misguided...more likely calculated...a long time ago...
Remember, the SCOTUS is a highly partisan group that cares ONLY for the GOP agenda. That is what cannot be done by congress or presidential edict will be done by Roberts and company.
New Jim Crow laws.
Any hope this could backfire on the fascists and actually end up disenfranchising more fascists than Democrats?
Kathleen @ 25:
Like this?
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/abr1072l.jpg
Jan @ 38:
New Jim Crow laws.
It disenfranchised a group of nuns.
Um, is the Jesus the only one who sees the glaringly obvious factor that this post misses?
NOT ALL VOTERS ARE DEMOCRATS.
This will also effect voters who are GOP leaning. Show me some evidence that this will greatly effect (D)'s instead of (R)'s, and then you have a story. BEWARE: Just stating "well, most older people are D, and they don't have ID's" is crap.
Just vote fucking absentee, and be done with all of this nonsense. It's so insanely easy, and makes all the hanging chads and disenfranchisment phony shit fly away.
“Also, if you qualify to vote absentee-by-mail or absentee-by-traveling board, and you chose to vote as such, you are not required to present photo ID.”
Jesus out.
Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 10:
Because four of them are fascist pigs.Can you guess which four?
" The measure would allow far more rigorous demands than the voter ID requirement recently upheld by the Supreme Court, in which voters had to prove their identity with a government-issued card. "
I remember when Conservatives vehemently opposed the idea of a government-issued ID card. Now they want you to present one in order to exercise voting rights Americans have had for 220 years.
Whatever happened to minimal government intrusion into the lives of citizens - the basic idea of conservatism? What do these people stand for any more, aside from hypocrisy, lies and expediency?
I've got a great idea! [sarcasm] Why don't we have any governmental agency (i.e., police, fire department, election officials, etc) ask anybody, anytime, anywhere to produce proof of US citizenship. If unable to comply, the individual will be held in a subordinate station (SS) until a judge determines whether the individual should be allowed to stay or is deported. [/sarcasm] This would apply to anybody living in this country.
Freakaloin @ 35:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Jesus Hussein Christ @ 41:
the electorate is substantially uneven with registered voters, most are democratic. The purpose is to get rid of the democratic voter. Anything to discourage voters from voting. Funny thing, any such action is also illegal? So we have a court that has given precedent that is based on something they have all ready declared illegal. Would be funny if it weren't yet another crime.
Non-land owners didn't get to vote for president until 1824. Blacks didn't get to vote until 1865. Women didn't get to vote until 1920.
drago @ 19:
No intelligence test is required to vote. That's why you're allowed to.
In December 2000 five-robed fascists on the Supreme Court sentenced the Founding Father's dream of Democracy to death. George W. Bush and his fellow fascists are the executioners. Barack Obama may be able to save us. The American people allowed Bush to get close enough in 2000 to steal the election. A disgraceful, inept campaign by Kerry, allowed the King to continue his destruction of America. The "only going to vote for a white guy or a white woman" bigots might allow McCain to steal this election. If McCain wins, this experiment in Democracy will have received its lethal execution dose. Head for Canada or some other remaining Democracy if you can get out before they close the borders.
You ain't seen nothing yet from the Roberts gang.
-Under Roberts short term so far, the US Chamber of Commerce reports that business has had more successes than ever before in their entire thirty year history...thanks in part to pliant Dems and Republicans.
-William Paltry, a former law professor and former counsel to the House of Representatives, said "It's a sad comment on the state of the Court - when you don't know what is worse, when they decide a case or when they don't."
-Bush's choice of Solicitor General Paul Clement was another appointment that got through the brain dead Senate, but was more dangerous in a sense, than the Justices themselves.
When Clement was challenged in a speech he gave, about the dwindling case loads of the Court, he described his role as a gatekeeper with unfettered powers to deny most of the requests by saying "..monopoly power can be a very good thing".
More on Clement:
http://www.legalaffairs.org/printerfriendly.msp?id=898
This is the kind of stupid petty crap that Democrats and Republicans fight over. I have at least 4 pieces of identification that would tell the authority who the heck I was if I dropped dead on the street. How the heck are we suppose to tell that a human being is an American if they don't have an ID? I just don't get this? Can we at the very minimum require people to have identification of one sort or another? Can't American's be responsible enough to carry and maintain at least one official ID?
This whole freakin argument is so unnecessary if people didn't act so irresponsibly!
To Lazy Democrats: GET YOUR FRICKEN ID AND PREPARE FOR CASTING YOUR VOTE IN A RESPONSIBLE FASHION IF YOU WANT IT TO COUNT. NOBODY IS GOING TO COME BEGGING FOR YOUR VOTE!
To the constantly deceiving Republicans: If you think your going to steal another election by disqualifying voters; keep it up and this country will end up in anarchy. Get off your lazy butts and find a way to identify all Americans instead of finding ways to exclude them from the process.
Stop bickering and start acting responsibly EVERYONE!
When the people vote, the people win. But... this is precisely why the Authoritarian Elite don't want YOU to vote.
The republicans will be happy when NO ONE shows up to vote.
the gop fascists will do anything to force their will
on America. they are the worst fucking bastards
to disenfranchise any who do not follow their
non-reality.
MMInEugene @ 51:
You just dont get it do you?
Google POLL TAX....learn what one is...
MMInEugene @ 51:
The republicans are specifically disenfranchising ALL americans except the most wealthy. Where have you been the past 8 years?
What hath they wrought? Despite the efforts of those few members who still possess conscience and the capacity to be influenced by its promptings, they have wrought: The destruction of America through their methodical work at the destruction of the Constitution. The destruction of democracy through their coup of 2000. The destruction of our nation's soul when they placed power on a pedestal and cast down defenseless need, when they put property and corporate rights above the rights of People, when they began to worship wealth and the wealthy above all other concerns, when they placed crimes against humanity above Human Rights. The stain with which they have painted this nation will dishonor it long past their own passing, assuming that America survives their harm. They have betrayed every principle it was their sworn oath to defend. And the thinking that has motivated them in each of their grievous acts of harm is like unto a deadly poison and a cancerous disease.
I believe future historians will view the members who currently sit or recently sat with the majority of this courts as being arch villains in American history....at least for the serial evils they have enabled and legitimized, if nothing else.
"What hath the Supreme Court Wrought" Deep disrespect for our socalled "justice system" and the implosion of our nation by the Supreme Court Selection of the Bush administration
55 milquetoast
Are pole tax when body piercers have studs enbedded in their genitals?
JIM CROW has risen from the grave and he's wearing justice robes!
Call this what it really is: a POLL TAX!!!
This is what happens when you forget and forgo history.
Lovely.
We have wide agreement that SCOTUS is nothing more than a tool the republicans are using as a means to bring down the US Government by destroying democracy. Very american (small "A" in their eyes) of them.
But when do we start agreeing on what to do about it?
Regardless of who each of us wants as the Democratic nominee, there are some things we must come together on to insure the decline of SCOTUS stops. Lets beat these s.o.b.s at their own game, lets put our money where our principles lie. If we can give to our candidate a few dollars to ensure America remains free, then we can spare some more to assist anyone who needs an I.D. or a lift to get an I.D. or whatever it takes to put an I.D. into someones' hand - then WE will be wielding the big stick come November. And when there is a Democratic Congress and a Democratic President we can force a federal law that Scalia, Alito, Roberts, and Thomas can suck on!
Its called Power to the People, old and much maligned concept, but it can work. It just takes ---- People.
miss_kitty @ 48:
Not to mention there are plenty of people (elderly mostly) who have no record of their birth due to poor record keeping, small town records that might have been lost ( fire/flood/ earthquake) or misplaced (remember? The internet and record keeping databases haven't been around for all that long or are you really that young, drago?). And not everyone has access to the internet to request records, either (SHOCKING, I know!) and must still resort to mail requests. My mother doesn't have a computer at her home and isn't very computer literate. Broaden your views a little.
leftminded @ 5:
Sorry, man, I've only got a pipe.
Unfortunately, I lay the blame for this nonsense to a lot of power-hungry DC lobbyists on the "liberal" side, who encouraged organizations and individuals at the state and local level to rely on the Federal gov't to protect rights. Shipping bushels of dough off to Wonderland only worked while a certain (relatively small) group controlled power. Once that group got the heave-ho (back in Reagan years), there was no more Federal protection, but DC lobbyists continued to vacuum up the money. Worse, they continued to dictate local chapter decisions on the basis of what was good for the DC office, not what was good for the local citizens.
Surprise: those folks can't help you. Despite all the urgent fundraising letters, NARAL is not going to do crap for you, League of Conservation Voters is not going to do crap for you, -- none of that. Republicans organized at the state and local level and that is why they are kicking your behind all around the mat. Not because they have a "better" message. Because they have a better delivery.
Progressive organizations that are currently being successful are NOT nationally organized ... they are organized at the local level. Lesson: if you get a money-begging letter and the return address for your check is in Washington, DC, throw it out. Spend your money where you make it.
Thanks.
mp
41 Jesus Hussein
The problem with voting absentee or by mail is if you're newly registered you might be voter caged. That's when on their own some publican operatives will send mail to the address given on the card, and if it's returned they assume that means it's not a good address so you're disqualified from voting. This has happened to students because they go to school out of state, and the card was send to their home state. It's also happened to some soldiers, because they were in Iraq or Afghanistan fighting.
FreeDUMB @ 53:
*Ding Ding Ding* We have a winner!
Check out the new fashions for Supreme Court justices:
http://www.st-marys.hull.sch.uk/sites/history/images/kkk.jpg
ysbaddaden @ 65:
Ahhh. Voter caging.... another Rove/GOP sponsored idea.
62 LibertyLover
Would that mean no one in Nwalins can vote?
This ruling by the supremes is proof positive that elections have consequences. Also there were no dem senators with the balls to filibuster Roberts and Alito to the court. It would of just taking one of them to block these atrocious choices to the bench. Now we are stuck with them for a generation. Our only hope is that Obama wins and our majority in the senate is made filibuster proof this election. If that happens, we can not only appoint the next 2 or 3 justices to the court. But we can also enlarge the number of justices on the court in the first place. There's no requirement in the constitution that there only be 9 justices on the supreme court. We should enlarge the court to 11 or 13 justices. That way we could ensure the repugs are in the minority for the next 30 years or so.
ysbaddaden @ 59:
I just use plain old thumbtacks...from my wall. ...I like the big ones that are easy to grab...
Paul @ 63:
I can take off my tinfoil hat and make a bong out of it if you want!
milquetoast @ 71:
I do to like this:
http://www.risingstarpromo.com/Doubles%20photos/MellodyDolly2.jpg
the ruling was not misguided. it was intentional. there was no guidance whatsoever, save for their fascist leanings.
Let's change the law to say that you have to be a white male property owner to vote and be done with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_PKqgzSXAM
Or if you prefer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTvVMjnBePM
drago @ 19:
You forgot to wear your fucking brown shirt.
Conservativeslayer @ 70:
Not sure it would've done any good if the Democrats had filibustered Roberts and Alito. They probably would've been appointed anyway. If not, Bush would've nominated someone as bad or worse.
milquetoast @ 72:
That'd work.
This is not simply the crooked, fascist SCOTUS at work; in large part this is also about our brain dead media. For example, have you heard a WORD about "voter caging" in the intensive news coverage of the primaries? Of course not. If the media ever does a story about "voter fraud" it invariably is about GOP efforts to pass legislation mandating the showing of voter ID at the polls. Even a recent report on National Public Radio about "ensuring fairness in the electoral process" was devoted almost exclusively to the red herring issue of voter identification.
Folks, the Republican party's now perfected system of voter caging (not to mention collusion with Diebold, Sequoia, et al) has skewed and/or stolen a string of elections, most notably in 2000 and 2004. Equally disturbing to the news blackout on this subject is the complete lack of a Democratic strategy to expose and end this practice. As was recently revealed, Karl Rove worried deeply that once the outright electoral fraud in Florida during the 2000 election was pounced on by the media and the Dems, they would be unable to benefit from it again in 2004. Obviously he had nothing to fret about; nor does the GOP this November. Is just about everyone in this country too clueless, pacified or medicated to care?
ysbaddaden @ 69:
Ya think?
Paul @ 79:
So will a Coke can.
Slaughter @ 75:
Well... if you are an originalist....like many of the SCOTUS/Federalist judges are...
One does not simply walk into Mordor. It's black gates are guarded by more than just orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. The great eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with...Oh wait sorry...wrong earth.
LibertyLover @ 83:
They'd like you to think they're strict constructionists or originalists. In fact, they're right-wing judicial activists.
ysbaddaden @ 82:
Amateurs! smoking from aluminum products is really bad for the gray matter.
Use glass, or papers...or even an apple...but not aluminum or copper!
This has been a public service announcement.
If someone doesn’t have a driver’s license, they can get a state ID card for free.
Not here in Indiana. Last time I got my State ID, it was $5. And I think it's gone up to $7 since then.
Well, we have a government run by people who don’t care what we think. They think our role as citizens is to vote for them to run our lives and to make laws that we have no say in but must obey. THEY then appoint people, with even less direct say by us the people, for life time appointments whose interpretations of the laws that we didn’t create are legally binding. It isn’t just about getting the right person on the Supreme Court, it’s about an outdated system that is un-democratic. Do we really have checks in balances in government when people are given no direct power what so ever? Or do we have a system where elites, generally cut off from the general public, check each other while having the same rough mentality and ideology on basically every issue?
This is what happens when the lessons learnt during the 60's is marginalized as "just" Black History. Americans faced fire hoses, dogs, and state-sanctioned terrorism for the right to cast a vote. Nowadays, some of us so willingly give up these rights out of fear... nay... phobia.
What hath the Supreme Court wrought?
Balloon animals wrought from air filled condoms?
Jennifer @ 88:
In Texas, it's going up to a hundred dollars.
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 87:
That would explain my sense of humor.
ysbaddaden @ 93:
I knew there was something wrong w/me...
What have they wrought? Invalidation... to themselves....
Most of these assholes have no more business seated on the Supreme Court than I do seated and flying a space shuttle... (hint; I'm not qualified to fly a space shuttle folks...) JD
First you disenfranchise them, then heap scorn on them, then it's off to the gas chamber and ovens. (Kinda like Hitler "cleaned up" Germany.) America only has room for yacht-owners and busy worker-bees. No useless mouths to feed (could be a Repug slogan).
bitter Edwin Hussein @ 96:
The peasants will work harder, for a bowl of rice a day, with a gun to their back .
Weird thing? I've been voting in Indiana since 1984 and this is the very first time I've ever been asked to show an ID when I went to my polling place. :s
Poll taxes are illegal and requiring people to have IDs forces them to get an ID which always there is a charge for. At the very least it should be required with these ridiculous laws that the state can no longer charge for driver licenses or other IDs because the IDs are necessary to vote. In other words, if the state said you can't vote unless you have an official pencil and you need to pay $20 for an official pencil then this is de facto a poll tax. (did these lawyers even argue this to the supreme court?)
Lillie Lewis's situation made my blood run cold. If this sort of legislation werte to pass, just think of the damage that could be done if the birth certificates of registered Democrats "went missing" from federal records...
These people would uphold the poll tax. They don't know the meaning of the word "justice" and the concept of "unalienable rights" is completely beyond them.
The founders would be appalled with these people.
ted @ 11:
No. Not everyone including ILLEGAL aliens should be able to vote in America's election! This is an utterly preposterous statement. Dangerous and very irrational. They are only affected by the outcome because they thrust themselves unto our society and the American way of life, all the while, REFUSING to assimilate, and now you suggest that they have a RIGHT to influence our elections. The government is supposed to belong to the American people, not just anyone who can successfully make it across the border (many multiple times). I commend the Supreme Court for making this decision. I, for one, am already highly skeptical of the voting process in America, and I, as a TAXPAYING CITIZEN, have the right to feel like the votes are extended to American citizens only to choose the path and direction for American citizens. This should be (in a rational head) an open and shut case. I am so tired of being politically forced to cram all of the bologna about "open borders" down my throat. The vast majority of Americans DO NOT think illegal aliens should get to vote. When did majority rules become overruled by the fringe group with the most money?! Libertarian all the way!!!!!
milquetoast @ 56:
No I think the blogger gets it. Maybe he/she is saying that republicans and democrats alike need to enact a way to obtain, at the very minimum, an ID card for free. Maybe not a driver's license, but an ID card. Some states already do this for a certain qualifying income level. This will solve all the bickering. It is not an overly burdensome concept to expect an American citizen to get an ID card once in their lives! This is so ridiculous to try and point this as a republican "man sticking it to the people" issue. Get an ID card! You have several months! Holy hell. This is not that far out a concept!
Does ANYONE who thinks this is no big deal question why the same people who are pushing for voting ID’s, without proof of anything near widespread voting fraud, are the same groups who REFUSE to have paper ballot trails? How, with machines that have been proven to be easily broken into and manipulated, can they claim they care about elections, try passing this law while refusing to have paper trails? Logically, there’s no way this is about free and honest elections, if it were these same groups wouldn’t fight paper trails, it would be part of their argument. It also can’t be about mass voter fraud, since this same party has been involved with voter fraud across the board (look up the voter caging in New Mexico or the purges in Ohio and Florida, which probably isn’t news to many here). So what is it REALLY about, taking that all into account?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH HAVING TO SHOW AN I.D. IN ORDER TO VOTE? I don't see why that's a bad thing...someone tell me, please. Shouldn't everyone have an ID?
Cassandra @ 102:
LIBERTARIAN?! Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? I’ll let you in on something about YOUR philosophy: Libertarians don’t believe in nation states. They think that capital should flow across national borders (you have no problem obviously with CAPITAL going freely from the US and Mexico and back, you just have a problem with that right being given to people, because “libertarians” care more about capital and their pet ideas than actual people). Libertarians claim, rightfully, that if you allow capital to flow across borders but don’t give the same right to people you are not only going to be economically “innefecient” but you’ll give an unfair advantage to capital over labor, which is without a doubt true, which is why NAFTA and similar deals are such a disaster. If you don’t believe I challenge you to find any of the big hitters in the “libertarian” (obviously not anarchist since anarchists are socialists, which is where the word “libertarian” came from) economics field who will tell you otherwise.
What you want is something like this: you can now ship capital from California to Arizona like you can from Mexico to the US thanks to NAFTA and similar deals. What you want is for the capital to go from California to Arizona but then PEOPLE will not be able to move from the two areas as freely as capital. How would you feel about THAT?
If you want closed borders, tear up NAFTA. If you aren’t willing to do that, live with the effects of YOUR philosophy’s ideas. Simple.
Ian @ 105:
Ian, answer my question above. Why is it that the same party, who has worked to fix elections and to install voting machines that can and have been broken into while refusing to have paper trails, calling for this law in order to make sure elections are "clean". Does it make any logical sense to you? It shouldn't. If these people refuse paper trails to make sure results are accurate, do you not think this has nothing to do with clean elections? It's amazing a party as crooked, with a long clear record of electorial manipulation, can get away with this argument without people spitting in their face.
One correction:
"that if you allow capital to flow across borders but don’t give the same right to people you are not only going to be economically “innefecient”"
I meant economically "efficient".
Okay... in 2000 it was the "felon" roles and hanging chads. In 2004 it was inadequate distribution of voting machines in poor areas. Now we see the form of deceit that the un-American GOP is taking to steal the elections in 2008.
Disenfranchising the vote is highest form of treason. At what point to we actually start fighting back? At what point do we say enough is enough? People DIED for this right and these traitors want to take it away from a large part of the population. At what point do you have the right to PHYSICALLY fight back??? I don't care what the law says... if anyone asks for proof of my citizenship to vote, they'll get a 4-knuckled proof!
TimV @ 109:
They'd just have their own personal security take care of you. These people are heartless power hungry sociopaths and they have an economic and social philosophy that is functionally sociopathic. If you want to harm them do damage to their profit margins, which is really their power over you anyway. It's the only thing they care about, they've built their worldview around the profit motive.
TimV @ 109:
Don't forget caging lists... of some of our own soldiers, as well... you know the ones who are fighting for our freedoms?
bitter Edwin Hussein @ 96:
Is that "change we deserve" ?
Pepper @ 108:
Capital flowing across borders...
do you mean all the money we send to saudi arabia and china?
by your logic we should open all borders wide open huh?
Suppose we do have a one world govt... who's constitution should we use?
(we got enough trouble keepin our own) ...dontcha think?
I saw your post and I think you are a blatant globalist...and I will fight you!
(america rules) and will not be defeated by the corporate globalists.
P.S. ...NAFTA sucks...and so do open borders...
and limited (legal) immigration is ok by me!
I agree that Repubs are nasty in their methods and whatnot, and this may indeed be one of those methods used to keep away 'low rent' voters with no ID. But I just think that everyone should have an ID and if you can't be bothered to have an ID then maybe you shouldn't be bothering to vote. To me, regardless of a parties historical precedents, Dem or Repub, I think everyone should have an ID in order to vote, in every state.
Ian @ 114:
Set a good example for the rest of us and Tattoo one on your forehead. ... or get one of those microchips implanted under your skin or something...
...do you know what a poll tax is? ....or why our constitution forbids one?
A blatant “globalist”. What a cute bumper sticker summation. Hate to break it to ya, but my critiques of “free trade” and NAFTA like deals comes from the more anarchist wing of the left, I don’t like much representative government and think it’s as much of a scam as this economic system.
I’m so sick of hearing from the Illuminati, World Government conspiracy folk. Say anything they don’t like and you’re calling for the “NWO”. THINK about what I was saying logically. I was pointing out how ridiculous it is to call for the free flow of capital while cutting back the flow of labor. Every major “free market” (forget radical) economist going back to Adam Smith agrees. Hate to tell ya, but if you allow capital to go across borders like it can, every time it’s been attempted it has been a disaster, you will create a world government in reaction. People aren’t going to become wage slaves so people who call themselves “libertarians”, “free marketers” or “capitalists” can enact policies simply because they like the ideas (really mainly because they want more power). If you want to at all cut back the flow of labor (and how would you do that without big brother?) you should put at least equal restrictions on capital. If you only want “legal” workers you are giving the state authority to choose who can and can’t leave the country, and the state is controlled by interests opposite of yours and mine and have been the ones to create this mess in the first place.
“(america rules) and will not be defeated by the corporate globalists”
It HAS been defeated by “corporate globalists”. The only way to change that is to organize and to work with people in your economic and social class in other countries, who have far more in common with you than the rich US capitalists who long ago sold you out. Your interests are not the same interests of those in government or the capitalist class. If you want closed borders don’t allow US corporations to destroy Mexico like they have. If you were in the country, being destroyed largely by US and Canadian capital and highly subsidized industry, you’d flee here and you’d give a damn if the people in which these parasitic corporations originate cared. I, personally, don’t think many people like yourself would care all that much about what US corporations do to countries like Mexico as long as you get a big enough cut.
Ian @ 114:
I think the first, and most important, thing to do is to ask yourself why a party with the RECENT voting theft record of the Republican Party all of a sudden cares about "clean" elections. I'd then stop whatever they're trying to do, since it CAN'T be in a working persons interest.
The right to vote is fundamental in a representative republic. Typical liberal Representative democracy is already rigged to be ruled by elites, with little to no participatory nature for the general public in decision making or the workings of government. Take away the right to vote and we're not tons different than feudalism. There is not widespread voting fraud, and most of it is a result of the party doing this nonsense. This will, by far, disenfranchise more US citizens than it will save in voter fraud, and the right wing here knows it. Even if, theoretically, this isn't a problem, it is in this context.
Okay, I agree that in order to prevent disruption in the voter turnout this year, the rule shouldn't be changed now. But how about this getting implemented not this election but the NEXT presidential election? That ought to give people time to get it together. I think you're obfuscating the actual argument and playing politics. which is absolutely involved here, but on just a simple 'yes or no' level: Do you think people with no ID should be able to vote? Personally, I don't.
Ian @ 118:
A voter registration card should be sufficient, since to get one you need to have a legal address, which is provable by things like utility bills etc. Demand more than that, especially IDs that are difficult and/or expensive to obtain, and you have begun disenfranchising people. For no good reason, I might add, since the only verified case of voter fraud in recent years was Ann Coulter(!) voting in the wrong precinct - and they let her get away with it due to "statute of limitations".
Why do Republicans hate Democracy? Why do they hate America and the founding principles?
Don't you think Hillary would make a great Supreme Court Judge? She's young enough and would last many, many years. I think it would be great and all the Repugs would just go nuts. :D
Second thought, could Obama appoint both Bill and Hillary? At different times of course.
God please let it happen.
Cassandra @ 103:
THANK YOU CASSANDRA!!!.....YOU GOT IT.....Mark
Nothing's a total obstacle, it just requires extra effort. If we had Dems in Congress that actually had spines they would pas legislation that allowed people to register via mail with proof of residence and a picture (polaroid is ok) for an voter ID. It wouldn't cost any more than a stamp & photo cost. All they want is proof that a person is alive & lives where they say they do. The ID should be free of cost. That will fix that.
Now why are the republicans the only legislators that have any balls? Why haven't our democratic representatives screamed & stopped all legislation and the function of government to address the fact that the voting machines that we all use can be hacked by a freshman in HS & the ballots changed?
The republicans are junkyard dogs & everyone knows it. I have a bigger problem with the Dems who just won't do anything. At some point in town an enabler becomes someone who actually wants the same outcome.
Pepper @ 117:
I wholeheartedly agree with many of the things you are saying, but constantly bickering with the nasty deceptive fringe of the Republican party is getting us nowhere. If each American cannot be responsible enough, as Ian says, to get some kind of agreed upon ID, then this electorate doesn't deserve the right to vote. I mean how pathetic is that? There are a lot of lazy irresponsible people who want things handed to them, but enough of that argument.
The way to beat the fringe Republicans (I use the word fringe so as not to insult good Republicans who I may not agree with, but can understand their desire for an orderly election by ID'ing all legal voters). I'm trying to meet them half way. Let's stop bickering endlessly and come up with solutions that work for everyone.
Kathy @ 123:
Right on Kathy!! Most of us are not trying to gratuitously slam someone here. It's not about Democrats or Republicans as much as it is about troublemakers, stick-in-the-muds, decievers, underminers, lazy irresponsible people, etc. ...they come in all political persuasions! And if our leaders can't step up to the plate to guide this pissed off electorate to some common ground...this Union is in trouble. We absolutely can find common ground, BUT NOT WITH THE LUNATIC FRINGE WHO WANTS TO HAVE EVERYTHING THERE WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
Too bad the Bush court won't leave when Bush does.
A gang of biggots, dressed in robes
MN USA @ 126:
Bigger concern: Bush doesn't leave because Bush court allows him to stay.
Cassandra @ 102:
This must have sounded much better in the original German.
Rusty Shackleford @ 19:
I like it. Says it all really.
Call me cynical; but after 7.5 years of the current crop of corporate fascist republican's, I have come to one, and only one conclusion only; if the current repukes support something, it is "unamerican" in it's goals, and it is designed to screw the people, while benefitting a small band of elite sociopath's.
MMInEugene @ 122:
While in theory, the concept of an ID card is optimistic, mandating a "Papers Please(!)" policy isn't an American Principle and value set forth by our founders. Sure, things have gotten complicated since then, and all, however we ARE discussing each Americans ability to vote... NO? So, with that said, shouldn't the standard for one's ability to vote and it's being placed against the principle, "Papers Please," for determining one's ability to cast a ballot, then why isn't that the same method used against absentee ballots?
I mean, if I wanted to defraud the system and all, just cast absentee ballots... YES?
It's not like I have to register to get an absentee ballot the exact way one has to when registering to vote in the first place... NO?
Who checks my ID when I cast an absentee ballot... ?
.
the GOP talk radio monopoly is the most essential component for selling this crap. until Americans recognize that and start picketing and boycotting their local talk radio stations it will continue.
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